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Showing posts with label India. Show all posts
Showing posts with label India. Show all posts

Monday, 26 June 2023

Finished- well more or less.

 OK That is the Sikh wars book finished more or less- Text completed anyway along with the maps and some of the illustrations.

 

25BNI. A Foundry unit painted by my Co-Author James Main. 

This should be out before Christmas this year or so I'm told. I do still have a bundle of photos to take though I have about a dozen or more already in the bag. Still more to do though.

Sikh Regular dragoons Old Glory models painted by me. 


 Those in this short not will not be amongst those in the book.

 

Sikh High command . Old Glory figures painted by me. 

Right off to the photo 'studio' .

Tuesday, 28 March 2023

Sikh and ye shall find.

 Last Saturday saw 4  of our group meet for a game in our new venue in the town of Stanley Co. Durham.

We are still settling in here, but it is going well.

This time I was in the chair and decided to go for another attempt at an Anglo-Sikh War game. Now last time had been a bit of a frost as picking your way through  Black Powder second edition is a decided chore. So we packed it in after a couple of moves and repaired to the bar.

Well this time it was different. No Black Powder- no straining my eyes on the brown print on cream paper. I decided to go with Warfare in the Age of Reason as a base since it is very open ended and the simple mechanisms allow easy period specific amendments which , done with care do not unbalance the game.

This would be a relatively small game with about 300 or a few more  28mm models on the table. So while not a big battle a bit more than a mere skirmish.

 The British had 4  cavalry units  each of 10 models - 2 'wings' of 3rd Light Dragoons and 1 unit each of 3rd Bengal Light Cavalry and 2nd Bengal Irregular cavalry. 4 battalions of Infantry of which HM31st foot at a mere 21 models was the weakest (I didn't get the flank coys finished in time !) 2 Bengal Native Infantry battalions and the Sirmoor Local Battalion - which despite its name are Ghurkhas.. The Brits  were lacking in artillery having only a single gun and crew of the admittedly elite Bengal Horse artillery. 

The Sikh force was slightly the larger but of more mixed quality. Their best troops were their 4 12pdrs which I rated as medium field guns with elite crews in AOR. As for regular infantry they had 2 units  one of 'line' from the Fauj-i-Ain and one Purbeah unit of the Fauj-i-Khas in shakos carrying a French style colour.  The remaining half of the Sikh infantry were irregulars or at best 'semi-regulars. A battalion of Muslim najibs and 3 small  bands of irregulars one of which was Akhalis. . For cavalry the Sikhs had a single unit of regular Dragoons and 3 units of Ghoracharra Irregular cavalry of which the largest was 15 strong the other two 10 models each.

 Most of the models were, of course Old Glory 28mm with a Foundry BNI unit (25th BNI with its unique unique - to the Bengal line- blue facings). The Bengal Horse Artillery are 'Willie'30mm with an Eagle gun. Otherwise aside from a few Redoubt Maratha interlopers making up the numbers in one of the Ghoracharra units and a couple of Studio Miniatures Officers then everyone else on both sides was Old Glory.

 The table  as the action opened. Sikh on the left of the picture
                                    The small fort which anchored their right can just be seen.


 The table was on the small side being just over 6 feet long by about 3and a half feet.. We can go bigger but to do that we have to leave the bar! 

So the action commenced with a spirited British advance-  commanded by Steve who donned Sir Hugh Gough's white fighting coat for the afternoon.. Sikh artillery opened up early, knocking holes in  36th BNI and smaller holes in the 25th. Indeed so bad was the damage to the 36th that they halted disorganised and by the end of the fighting would have lost 30% of their strength..

The Sikh left. In the middle distance 36th BNI are taking a pasting from the Sikh Guns

The Sikh left- their stronger wing- one unit of cavalry has already been pushed back but the guns will give 36BNI many an anxious moment. 


 The British cavalry however moved in swiftly and in two moves of sabre slashing havoc eventually pushed back the Ghoracharra facing them- even 3 BLC doing reasonably well.- Steve's dice rolling was just a tad above average. Both sides were taking losses- the Bengal Horse Artillery doing some counter battery fire at medium range managing to reduce one Sikh gun crew by 2 figures.

HM31st Foot advanced on the Sikh right where the scrub jungle was filled with irregulars. These  skirmishers has proved a minor nuisance The 31st delivered a perfect volley which sent numbers of these pesky fellows scuttling behind the small fort that was the right flank anchor of the Sikh line.

'Those pesky fellows' Sikh Irregulars- some being Rohilla Mercenaries-  in the scrub jungle.


A pensive Steve wonders what to do about those terrible Sikh guns.


The decision came on the Sikh right centre where 25th BNI  went in against the najib battalion. the fight was close and for a move it looked as if the najibs would actually prevail ( 3  sixes  for their defensive volley from Andrew  helped!)but in the end discipline told and the najibs retreated - disorganised taking the   Sikh regular dragoons with them. It was now all over bar the well not shouting but post game discussion.

25th BNI followed by the Sirmoor battalion go in against the Najibs.

The Najibs strivinh manfully against the 25th BNI.



All four of us Steve as Gough and Shaun and Andrew as the Sikh commander as well as me Umpiring had enjoyed this first proper outing for this new collection. AOR had performed well - though I shall have to add a few more 'in-period' tweaks as I paint more units.  The rules were certainly easier to navigate than Black Powder but then over the years I have played many more games of AOR than I have Black Powder so this may be simply a matter of use..

Thanks go to Norman Oyston for the use of the venue  and to Ros for the beef butties and chips. The beer as usual was very drinkable and fun was had by all. 

 Next game should be in April. 

Wednesday, 1 February 2023

Sikh Wars additions.

 I have been beavering away at my Sikh Wars collection of late so here are a few pictures of the results. All of this group are Old Glory 28mm though I have some Studio Miniatures on the painting table which fit pretty well in terms of size though they are a bit more static in style that OG..

 Indeed the only thing in this clutch of pics that is not Old Glory are the flag  finials on the Sikh battalion and the 31st Foot, which comes from Front Ranks. The paper flags are all hand painted by me - though some are repaints of Napoleonic flags downloaded from Warflag. com  which is a useful site for those who are not keen on paying  anything up to a fiver for a pair of paper flags if there is another choice. 


Sikh regular Dragoons. 'Rajman Khas Daragun' 

31st Foot. This unit still needs its Flank Companies

Sikh battalion of the Fauj-I -Ain. The regular army. I will need several more of these plus a bundle of irregulars.

So both sides continue to grow slowly but they do grow. Next up some Ghurkhas for the Brits some Sikh Irregulars and those missing flank companies. 

Monday, 31 October 2022

Akhalis, Kala-Paga, and a thin red line.

 In between writing and selling soldiers I am actually getting a little painting done. Never as much as I'd like but then you never do really.  The fruits of the last couple of weeks appear in the pictures. 

 The Kala-Paga are the elite Maratha cavalry - several steps up from the Pindaris and suchlike that the bulk of their cavalry often consisted of and that the British were so disparaging about. No, these chaps  were the paid(in theory) more or less 'regular' cavalry of Maratha armies. Much better armed and equipped than most and able to fight as 'battle' cavalry as well as raid in the 'gaminia Kava' style of normal Maratha warfare. There were never that many of them and ten percent of Maratha cavalry is possibly a bit generous. I've given this first bunch the 'national flag' of the Marathas the saffron yellow carried from the time of Sivaji the Great if not earlier.

Maratha National flag. Models are mostly Redoubt but the standard bearer is an Old Glory Turkish Spahi on a Stadden 30mm horse.




Sikh Akhalis, warriors for their faith. These chaps fought Mughals, Marathas and indeed anyone else including the British. The British first encountering them in a skirmish in 1809. 

Sikh Akhalis. All Old Glory 28mm from the same pack, though there are more head variants than shown here. More to paint. 




British Infantry of the Sikh Wars period. These are the 31st Foot. Command and Flank companies still to finish. But we are getting there. 

Old Glory 28mm British Infantry from the Sikh Wars range. These from the centre company in shell jacket pack. 








Wednesday, 19 October 2022

Wargaming De Boigne's Campaigns Part 2 Some thoughts on rules.

 Some years ago when I made a previous attempt at gaming De Boigne's campaign I knew a hell of a lot less about them than I do now. Back then we used a somewhat amended version of Warfare in the Age of Reason for the games using those armies. As I start the period up again  I began by thinking 'Black Powder'  or 'General De Brigade'  but I'm not sure either will quite work. Many of the BP mechanisms I find just a bit faffy. Now part of that is simply because it is such a pain to find stuff in the books but part of it is also that I hate pinning my colours to one ship - or in this case one rule set. Now this is not to say that BP does not have its points, it has some nice touches but wading through a 200 page book to find them and then to have to write 'em all down is frankly a pain when you only play a dozen times a year at most.

New group of Mughal cavalry - late 18th century. Deliberately a bit generic rather than specific on a 'Ghol' base.


 On the whole I prefer the simpler and more open ended mechanisms of Warfare in the Age of Reason but at least part of that is because I have played them a lot more than Black Powder. I may alter my opinion once I have played more Black Powder - and once I can find stuff in the over wordy  and eye-candy heavy book. Age of Reason is actually easy to navigate though the actual book is not as robust- that goes for all of my very well used copies though I don't yet have a copy of the 3rd Edition.

Old Glory 28mm Pathans. For De Boignes campaigns these will be Rohilla mercenaries
 and can fight either with or against him.


The unit sizes and command level for both sets are similar and can be made identical with almost no effort. My Seven Years War collection which was built around AOR uses battalions of 24 ,28 ,32 and even 48 . But of course I can use other sets if I choose- which is really the point as I am not and never will be a one set fanboy. And yes I know  the basic version of AOR uses 12 fig battalions but frankly they are simply too piddly  for my taste  so I have always used the  larger battalion variant with some local amendment to suit sub-periods and specific tactical doctrine.

Another view of the cavalry Ghol - this time on their single bases.


 Indeed my original Wellington in India collection used AOR  with a number of  India specific mods. As far as I can recall these included making most Indian irregular units  morale level 1 or even 0 for the worst troops BUT adding extra commanders who could only affect the morale of their contingent. This tended to mean that large mobs of rubbish stood at the back waiting for something to happen and then ran away when it did. I even recall doing some 'mob stands' - all representing the space of 10 or possibly even 20 models- can't recall which- but having varying numbers actually on the  base  with bits of terrain to make 'em look more.  Chris Sinclair bought the  Mughal collection in the late 90s . I stupidly sold the Wellington in India collection to Ian Hinds a few years later- always regretted that. 

A mob of irregulars.


  Other rules mods included. Making the old fashioned traditional style Indian guns immobile and only allowing them to fire directly ahead. Can't recall if I gave Indian firearm cavalry a skirmish option but I should have done.

The only De Boigne battalion so far completed. Still a long way to go. 


So despite being up to my armpits in the Anglo- Sikh Wars at the moment and painting of anything going glacially slowly due to other commitments I have by no means forgotten De Boigne and his fascinating wars I just don't have enogh toys to get him on the table yet. 

Tuesday, 16 August 2022

Sikh Wars - Purbeah Infantry for the Fauj-i-Khas.

 This lot have been on my painting desk for far too long, but then so has everything else that is there. It is part of the price you pay for being in the business. Of course they could have been on some painters desk for 6 month or a year or even longer(as I know some chaps seem to wait for ever for 'their painter' to complete stuff) . Not putting up with it. So these days I paint most of my own stuff myself. Slow I may be but at least I know what is happening.

 So here we have a unit to be added to the Khalsa. This one a little different, being a purbeah' unit - that is not Silks specifically one largely made up of hindu sepoys many of whom were deserters from the EIC service.

French trained Purbeah Infantry of the Sikh army 1845.


The figures are all Old Glory 28mm from the Sikh Wars range  specifically pack ASW-16. I have painted these as purbeahs rather than in the Gurkha uniform which was the same style but in green with red facings.

Close up of the command group. Those flowery thingies on the flag were a bit of a faff to paint. 

Yes the pack is a firing line  or skirmish line - your choice. 


 The flag is the French style 'tricolour' - actually with 4 bands - as shown in Gurinder Singh Mann's excellent book 'The Rise of the Sikh Soldier' whose short essay on Khalsa flags renders  most of the various paper productions  of Khalsa flags for this war fit only for the bin. Of those I have well over half will be heading for that receptacle the rest will get a repaint.

Right back to work- soldiers to pack up  and words to write .

Saturday, 16 July 2022

Catching up on my Reading 13.

 Rise of the Sikh Soldier by Gurinder Singh Mann.

 It is always good to get a different viewpoint, an alternative opinion. Lets face it the same old same old becomes monotonous. That goes for  many things including views of history.

You do get tired of the Euro- centric view or even a North-Americano- centric view and yes tired of an Anglo centric view  as well.

 So when this  new Helion title swam across my ken I was immediately interested not to say fascinated by the premise.

Regular readers of my blog will know of my interest in Indian Military History -and not just the British segment either- indeed I have written upon the subject and am currently engaged upon another such so I suppose you could say I have form.

 Not as much as Gurinder Singh Mann though, who has studied Indian and particularly Sikh history for many years.




So what do we have?

In 12 Chapters, Seven appendices and 260 plus pages we have laid out before us the story of the Sikh soldier  from the beginnings in the late 17th century until what might be termed 'the high point of the British Raj' in 1900.

 The early chapters I found especially fascinating detailing , as they do, the Sikhs fight for independence against the once  mighty Mughal Empire. A Sikh army, for example, occupied Delhi for a  time in the 1780s with an army of perhaps 30,000 cavalry. In the snakepit that was the political life of northern India in the 18th century they fought Mughals, Marathas and Afghans at various time as well as - quite often , each other as the various  Misls or 'Commonwealths' fought for territory. Yet despite not infrequent internecine squabbles the Sikhs would almost always unit against external enemies.

 The book also details organisation and tactic of the  early Khalsa before that formidable army's partial 'Europeanisation' under the Sikhs greatest leader Ranjit Singh during the first three decades of the 19th century. Further detailing the numerous campaign that Ranjit Singh and his generals both European and Sikh fought to extend the Sikh Empire throughout the Punjab and beyond.. The two short but bloody wars against the British are also covered- as one would expect but from the Sikh perspective. This certainly added depth to my Anglo-centric knowledge of these campaigns. The final chapter give a brief rundown of some of the campaigns of the later 19th century in which the Sikh regiments of the British Indian Army took part

Maps and illustrations are excellent including many I had never seen previously and the discussion on  the flags of the Khalsa I personally found very useful indeed. Gurinder Singh Mann's scholarship and knowledge of Sikh history is evident throughout and his use of Sikh sources often unknown to me add depth  especially to those parts of the story I thought I knew.

I have no intention  of going through this fine book chapter by chapter- you should buy it to do that. Suffice it to say that it belongs on any bookshelf with an interest in Indian Military History and of course of Sikh History in particular.

Recommended.

Friday, 27 May 2022

Wargaming De Boigne's Campaigns Part One.

While I was at Partizan it came up in  a conversation  about my book- 'Their Infantry and Guns Will Astonish You that there aren't any ranges  available to wargame the campaigns out lined in the book.  Well that is both true and false. 

True there aren't any dedicated  RANGES for these fascinating campaigns.



 FALSE because there are plenty of figures out there if you look about yourself and stop being a lazy chap expecting to be spoonfed. After all building such an unusual army is part of the fun of this hobby.

The first place to look of course is any 'Wellington in India ' range, which of course you will understand when you have read the book.

One of DeBoignes battalions with its 'gun company' .Figures are First Corps with Old Glory AWI  command figs which have been give Spare Redoubt sepoy heads. 


 Redoubt have a good range in 28mm as do AW Miniatures though personally I'm not keen on the AW cavalry. In terms of size the 2 ranges are  fairly compatible  unless you are one of those anal dudes with a case of '3mm angst'. These 2 ranges will take care of most of the regulars but I also use some of the First Corps SYW Indian troops too. They do a couple of nice sepoys  but you will have to source other command figs. These are smaller than Redoubt 

Assorted Irregular cavalry - all models are Old Glory either from the Sikh Wars range or the Renaissance Persians


Foundry and Empress also do plenty of useful models  for the Mughals and other more irregular troops. Empress also have some useful  carts waggons and baggage items geared to Indian armies. 

 Old Glory do plenty of the irregular types  hidden in the Sikh Wars and Indian mutiny ranges - some of their Pathans are doing duty as Rohillas in my slowly growing collection. .

 If you can source them Indus miniatures do some useful figures but beware some are, rather oddly, left handed.

Perry have a few Bombay sepoys hidden in their British Napoleonic and their plastic Afghans are a useful source of spares parts for conversions - as are the Wargames Atlantic plastics.

 Eureka in Australia have some very useful 28mm in their Golconda range  but they seem to be a little difficult to source.

A mob of Irregular Infantry again all Old Glory models  from the Indian Mutiny or NW Frontier ranges - with a couple of  Muslim Militia from the Crusades range for good measure. 


I have seen some rather tasty 20mm/1/72 scale models from Schilling Miniaturen - a German company  worth a look  certainly  as they are very sweet indeed. 

Elephant towed 24pdr gun  by AW miniatures.  Although from their Indian Mutiny range with earlier crew this piece will fit neatly into earlier campaigns .

Rohilla matchlockmen from Old Glory - actually out of the NW Frontier range. 

British gun and crew of the Bengal Artillery. Crew are AW gun is a Sash and Saber model


In 15mm Minifigs do a Wellington in India range - never seen them in the flesh but the pictures look OK. Freikorps 15 used to have a warfare in India range but no longer sure who owns these now.

 In the tiny sizes Irregular do some useful stuff in 6mm .

So building armies for these campaigns is very possible with just a modicum of effort.

Once you have the armies then you can think about rules.... More on this when I have had a little think .... 

 

Monday, 16 May 2022

First De Boigne Battalion.

  So here is the first battalion of the First Brigade of the Army of Hindustan in about 1792 or thereabouts.

First Battalion First Brigade. Army of Hindustan .


 Models are First Corps with Old Glory AWI command  with some head swaps. The gun is an old Minifigs 30mm piece - which they probably won't keep.. Each battalion will have its own 'gun company' as in the original. So each model battalion of 24-30 figures will have in addition a gun and grew representing the 4 guns and a howitzer of the prototype. 

By 1803 there were 5 'brigades' in this army each of 10 battalions, more or less plus  cavalry  backed by hoards of not always useless irregulars horse and foot. In addition there were other 'trained brigades'  who would also fight the British and  give Wellington the fight of his life at Assaye..

Closer view - each battalion had its own integral artillery..


 The British- with more than a touch of paranoia often  called the recruiting grounds of this army in Northern India 'The French State' - which it wasn't but Boney did attempt contact with Pierre Cuiilir Perron the French Officer who succeeded De Boigne in command of the Army.

The period  fascinates and there are some decent books on the subject - by Helion naturally,

 Josh Provan's excellent 'Bullocks, Grain and Good Madeira' gives a fine account of the Second Maratha War from the British perspective with plenty of info on the battles and a lot of fine stuff on the difficulty of supply . I heartily recommend this book.

First of the British opposition. European artillery . AW miniatures figures with a Sash and Saber gun.


 As for the other side a little toot on my own trumpet here as my own study of the Maratha forces 'Their Infantry and Guns Will Astonish You' is also published by Helion. This covers in detail the formation of the Maratha regular forces which would oppose Wellesley at Assaye and give His Noseship  some tough memories of battle for the rest of his remarkable career. 

 Napoleonics in strange parts of the world ....

Sunday, 17 April 2022

Old India Hands ....

 Regular readers will know I'm a fan of 30mm model soldiers- specifically those of Stadden and Suren - but other makes too such as Barry Minot.

 Now most of my 30mm collection is Napoleonic - see the numerous 'shinyloo' post on this blog- but I also have a number of colonials  from the same makers- Stadden and Suren that is, I don't have any of Minots 30mm Colonial output yet.

I've picked up various Stadden colonials over the last few years  to go with the small number of Suren models I already have(but that need rebasing and a bit of TLC to get them back on the table as they were painted about 30 years ago).. Definitely old India Hands . These old chaps have a movement and style that is  lacking in many modern over produced models, even if sometimes detail may be lacking- after all you can paint that, style is not. Also you can tell one make from another . These days that is often more difficult  with the upsurge in perryclones and 'received presentation'. Whatever happened to individuality?

 Stadden 30mm Sikh  troops  though the mounted officer is a Connoisseur figure on a Stadden horse. 


A single Stadden 30mm sepoy. These match with most'modern' 28mm.

Close up of the Officer,


 All of these were for the 1897 Pathan Revolt or indeed for other North West Frontier campaigns and over the years I've added units using Old Glory models as well almost all for the British- Indian army. All I need now is to paint a load more Pathans 

A pair of old Willies- yes I have used that line previously but they are.
 These were painted about 30 years ago and are now up for rebasing and refurbishing.

The last photo  on this post is a bit of an oddity.

 I only have 14 of these wonder what happened to the range?


 There are 25mm figures made in the late 80s /early 90s by an outfit called- I think Valiant Miniatures - but I may be misremembering. They were sculpted by a chap called Peter Rogerson  who I know is still working  as he has just made some 40mm for a client of mine. These 2 are 'French Sepoys'  and the range   as I recall had several Indian figures in it  for the  late 18th/ early 19th centuries- Wellington in India in wargamerspeak- Madras Sepoys and Bengal Native cavalry  as well as a few irregular types. They were British when I knew them but migrated to the USA - possibly under another name - anyone any ideas  if they still exist? 

Saturday, 26 March 2022

When is a game Not a Game?

So there we were in a new venue for the first game this year. 3 of us managed to get past work and real life commitments to try to get a game in. I was in the chair so decided to give my small Sikh Wars forces their first outing together with some new jungly bits I had amassed during lockdown. I actually bought most of them in one lot off ebay but a few bits were made by my own fair hands as well. 

 Now being a new venue there was a bit of delay sorting ourselves out and of course none of us had seen each other face to face for some months so the craic was  perhaps a tad OTT nevertheless we got the game set up - the scenario being vaguely based upon the Battle of Mudki in 1845.. 

Rules were to be Black Powder - Second Edition-  which while an definite improvement on the first edition still has issues- most notably  the brown print on the off white paper which makes some bits a bugger to read in certain lights. There is also the serious faff involved in sorting out the units which I ran out of time to do - having a real life- though the idea here is fine as the units can be tailored to the scenario. For a large game with multiple brigades this could take a considerable amount of time but may appeal to the sort of chaps who regularly sort out their sock drawer in colour or alphabetical order. Most of course will take the Holy Writ of the 'game designer' for granted - even if he is talking twaddle- since that seems to be the 'received wisdom' there days 'finkin ain't Fun' for some at least. 

General view of the table.


So on second thoughts maybe I'll have to learn to organise my sock drawer, at least metaphorically speaking, rather than merely accept some of the historical howlers that appear in the sample armies for the scenarios in the book . There is still good stuff in the book even if much of it is hidden amongst a plethora of eye-candy and other associated fluff.

Sikh Irregular Cavalry 


Ghurkhas and 60th Rifles. 

The British Line 

Jungly Bits 


So to the game ... or rather not as with all the chat and ribaldry we only did three moves. Mind you - despite the seam in the playing cloth I did rather like the look of the thing and as I get more 'India' models painted - both for the Sikh wars and of course De Boigne's campaigns there will be more spiritual visits to the warfare of that intriguing subcontinent.

Models were mostly Old Glory 28mm - though one of the sepoy units is Foundry and the Bengal Horse Artillery are old Willie 30mm. All  blend in pretty well on the table so 3mm angst can go whistle. Check out the photos  you simply can't tell. 

 So to answer my title question .....  when its a good time with your mates .

 Our thanks to Norman Oyston| (that's Andrew the Tekkies Dad)   for allowing us the use of the  new venue- we will be back. 



Wednesday, 16 February 2022

Pathan Cavalry and more sabots

 These Pathan cavalry had been on my painting table for far too long but finally they are finished. These will join the slowly growing 'India' collection as they will suit a fairly large timespan.- especially those with the jezails rather than the 2 who have more modern rifles. . These all came straight out of the Old Glory pack CNP5 and are as they come, no fiddling about. Other from this pack will have minor conversions such as substituting a lance for the firearm and having shields added.

Pathan Cavalry - 5 variant models  from the same 10 figure pack. 


Much of my India stuff- especially that for the Mutiny- is singly based so using sabot movement bases seemed a good idea. Infantry are easy enough but cavalry can present a problem or two. This being especially true if you want something of an irregular look for Marathas or Pindaris for example. Pinched this idea from the Wargames in India FB group but decided to turn the large base into an 8 figure sabot. Bit of a faff or what ! Mind you I think it works so a few more will be made  but fiddling to get the base holes in the right place takes a bit of patience. 

The large base is an 8 figure sabot- the actual base being 170mm by 109mm  from Warbases. Getting 8 models on was a bit tricky but I do like the end result, even if the fit was not quite as good as I hoped.