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Update Quality

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ThatOneRandomGuy, Sep 20, 2023.

  1. ThatOneRandomGuy

    ThatOneRandomGuy
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    Am I the only on who thinks the update quality has taken a deep dive? It definitely peaked with the release off the Vivace and Bastion and Bolide remaster., but slowly dipped from there. The new cars are just off roaders with okay at best crash physics. The only real CARS we got was the minivan and the supercar. Both have mediocre at best crash physics. If you want to have good crashes with them, you need AngentY's value scale mod. I would like to hear your thoughts about this too.
     
  2. Turbo49>

    Turbo49>
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    How do you know if they have good crash physics or not ?
     
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  3. Doomingplays

    Doomingplays
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    i totally get your point, but the devs are trying and lets just wait and see how 0.31 works out
     
  4. ThatOneRandomGuy

    ThatOneRandomGuy
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    I crash them against the older cars and see that the older ones have much better physics?
    Yeah but I have been waiting for every update and they keep getting worse and worse.
     
  5. Doomingplays

    Doomingplays
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    just at-least be happy that this game has devs that actually update their game and dont do shitty dlcs like other games, plus theres no other games like it, so just be content
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. Agent_Y

    Agent_Y
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    Jbeam/QA support
    BeamNG Team

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    I'm not sure how my mod would be improving crash physics as it changes all values globally, while the difference between good and bad crash physics is rather about finetuning how the different parts of a vehicle deform compared to each other. Making global changes will just make a car stronger or weaker overall, it can't fix actual issues in the damage model if such exist. Could you please provide a more accurate feedback about what exactly you feel is wrong with the damage? What exactly is better about the older cars compared to the newer ones?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Aleks0waty

    Aleks0waty
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    Just wanted to start off with some good words for devs, because they are amazing and I am supper happy with the support over the years!

    Unfortunately I have to agree about the quality drop lately, especially the last two - three udpates. Examples:
    - ETK 800 and K series revamp was quite underwhelming, not that many new options added and some obvious bugs were present at launch. Both are not that fun to drive on a wheel for me, they don't handle right, it's really hard to slide them or drive on the edge.
    - Minivan crash physics are weirdly stiff (?) from lack of better words, but most imortantly it is not fun to crash... why? The front bumper is constantly getting stuck under the car, front wheels break way too easily which basically ends any sort of car chase upon contact. Still present in 0.30.
    - Automation test track has been updated with new cool PBR textures, but some areas simply don't fit those new textures. Just take a look at some of those snow patches near the icy road... they don't look that great, especially since they are flat. Plus the performance has dropped for me after the update.
    - WCUSA update is hopefully not finished, because the ideas that devs have are great but the additions themsleves, well... the new terrain (which is outside of usual map borders, so it is basically a solid mesh) has no grass, little vegatetion and weird glitches tearing your car apart. Also, some of the barrires are very low poly with little detail. And the grass texture gives a very 2005'ish look. Compare it to the rest of WCUSA and you'll see how much worse those additions look. But worst of all, the performance is so bad that I cannot play on this map even with no dynamic reflections!
    - The new UTV does not really have too many features like openable panels or clickable buttons, which is surprising to be honest. I would also expect a manual or sequential option for transmission, ain't no fun with a CVT!
    - While I like off-road stuff, I feel like some of the new additions don't fit into Beamng. I don't see why anyone would use Wydra other than a gimmick. The Gambler 500 configs don't feel like they belong to this game. The new UTV is nice, but I also don't see myself using it much. We already have received so many simlar off-road vehicles, what's the point? This one is very snappy, hard to drive and kinda slow. Besides, I feel like there is room for actual 4X4s, like a modern SUV or a modern pickup which I am sure community would appreciate more.

    Those are just a few things that grind my gears, but this does not mean that the updates are bad. On the contrary, they are great. It's simply that the previous updates have set the bar so high ;)
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  8. ThatOneRandomGuy

    ThatOneRandomGuy
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    ALL TESTS WERE CONDUCTED AT 40 MPH (64 KMH)
    In our first test, I will be using the Bastion and Lansdale
    As we can see, for the Bastion, the bumper breaks in 2 in a satisfying way while the frame deforms in the way that it should. For the Lansdale, the bumper breaks in out a ugly, glitch mess that isnt satisfying at all. I must give credit the the Lansdale for having a nice frame deformation but that's it.
    upload_2023-9-20_18-13-1.jpeg upload_2023-9-20_18-13-12.jpeg View attachment 1063335 upload_2023-9-20_18-14-3.jpeg
    For our second test, we will be using the Scantilla and the Bolide
    For the Scantilla, we see no deformation of the bumper, no headlights coming off, and frankly, messy deformation. I will use this real life crash as an example of what a super car should look like when crashed
    upload_2023-9-20_18-16-20.jpeg
    upload_2023-9-20_18-15-55.jpeg

    The bolide experiences a much more realistic and satisfying crash
    upload_2023-9-20_18-17-10.jpeg
    upload_2023-9-20_18-17-2.jpeg
    For our final test, we will be ramming both supercars in the rear with a D-Series
    For the Scantilla, we see bearly any damage. Just a little bumper deformation, and still no lights being taken off. And keep in mind, this isnt at 10 mph. Its at 40! For the Bolide, we see a much more realistic example of deformation at 40 MPH
    upload_2023-9-20_18-19-33.jpeg
    upload_2023-9-20_18-19-22.jpeg
    upload_2023-9-20_18-19-1.jpeg
    upload_2023-9-20_18-18-53.jpeg
    upload_2023-9-20_18-18-47.jpeg
    I hope this clears up all the questions asked. And for your mod Agent, it makes the cars that deform a tiny bit like the Scantilla, actually deform more.
     

    Attached Files:

    • upload_2023-9-20_18-13-44.jpeg
  9. Turbo49>

    Turbo49>
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    That's vague as hell, do you use any real-life reference ?
     
  10. Agent_Y

    Agent_Y
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    Jbeam/QA support
    BeamNG Team

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    This is some good feedback, I forwarded it further, and will respond to the best of my abilities about why it was done like this.
    The issue with the Lansdale is not due to the front bumper itself, but rather the undertray. Being a pretty large piece compared to those on other cars, it had to be made softer, or else the car would get stuck on the undertray after frontal impact with the wheels lifted up. Unfortunately it seems that it was overlooked that the softness of it, compared to strong attachment to the bumper, means that it holds the bumper together when it would normally break apart or deform. We will try if making the undertray easier to deform and break off the bumper fixes it and doesn't cause further issues.
    The Scintilla Jbeam is very close to the limit of what the game engine can do, as it's a very light, stiff and fast vehicle. A lot of finetuning was put into it, and I suppose there is a stability reason for it not to deform or break apart that much. The Scintilla is significantly heavier and newer than the Bolide, and also built from different materials with different technology, so realistically, it would deform less. The deformation of each individual part is considered, not just the car as a whole. By using my mod to make the car deform more, you are changing not only the parts that you deem problematic, but also the passenger compartment for example, which is meant to be very resistent against deformation, this being a modern supercar.
    The lights and other parts not coming off is by design, it's due to something we call the weight budget. Basically there is a limit to how low we can set the nodeWeight of vehicle parts without lowering the structure stiffness, and we need both realistic weight and very high stiffness for this particular car. A solution is to use less nodes overall, in order to make it possible to use higher nodeWeight values per node. A headlight/taillight on this car would be 5 extra nodes per fender, with the current setup it means extra 10kg, that is considering the best case scenario where we don't have to increase nodeWeight due to the extra structure complexity lowering stability or stiffness of the fenders or any underlying structures such as the front part of the chassis, let's say realistically it would be an increase of 15kg. An extra 15kg for a normal car is not a big deal, but for a supercar which is already quite heavy for what it is, it becomes a problem. Keep in mind also where the weight is, putting more weight higher up raises the center of gravity. Saving weight wherever possible while keeping simulation quality standards high was definitely a thing with lots of thought put into it, and I guess the final conclusion was that it's worth sacrifising the ability to break off the headlights and taillights in favor of having some other parts simulated better, such as the bits of undertray that not only can fall off but also affect aerodynamics and weight distribution.
    I hope this answers some of your concerns. We will try to improve the Lansdale deformation, you are not the only person who has pointed it out. As for the Scintilla though, it's close to the stability limit as it is, a small change could have big consequences, so any changes with it need some planning and consideration.
     
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  11. ThatOneRandomGuy

    ThatOneRandomGuy
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    Thanks for the insight. I will do more testing with your mod later today.
     
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