Brian and Maggie

Having lived through these events and was at the time a fan of the political interviewer Brian Walden I was interested to see for myself Channel 4s drama. Directed by Stephen Frears with a screenplay by James Graham, the odd interest in the demise of Thatcher continues.

Walden didn't bring down Margaret Thatcher, the responsibility for that lies wholly with herself. He did however, hammer in one of the many nails into her coffin. The two part series is made all the more tasty because they had been friends and this is developed by Frears to give context to the events that led to the famous, fateful TV interview.

Steve Coogan and Harriet Walter play the leads and Coogan struggles with Walden's persona, looks and accent. At times he simply comes across as... Steve Coogan. There is little about Walden's time as a Labour MP despite the fact that early in his career he was seen as a potential cabinet minister or even leader. As the 1970s progressed he turned into a maverick before leaving to work as a TV interviewer.

Harriet Walter is the latest amongst several actresses to play Thatcher. Despite being older than the former Prime Minister was in1989 her performance might just be the finest so far. She gets the two big issues for all actresses playing the part right-that of Thatcher's public and private persona. This is the key to trying to understanding Margaret Thatcher. Most biographies and accounts point to this personality split. Was the Iron-Lady really a kitten when she was off-duty?

Well, Frears and Graham don't exactly put her into that box, but in the two part series best scene she invites Walden for a cosey drink in her private rooms in Downing Street. We see a very different Margaret, shoes off, lounging on a couch drinking whisky with big eyes for her favourite TV man across the coffee table. She and Walden get close, at least as friends as they build a kind of blood-brothers pact between each other.

Was this merely a professional relationship of politician and journalist, or was there something more? As time passes during Thatcher's tenure the relationship pans out as purely professional as we move towards 1989. Her fall was slow in coming, but inevitable. The 'interview' was well anticipated, as political interviews were at that time, Walden being the master interviewer up against the usually superb Thatcher. Walden goes straight for the jugular and doesn't let his prey off the ropes. I remember the shock this caused at the time; was this really Margaret Thatcher? She fights back but the fatal wound had been inflicted.

As they say, the rest is history. Perhaps the final word comes from the Prime Minister as she looks into the mirror, realising that the game was up...'Betrayal.'

I was around when the televised interview between former Labour politician turned television presenter Brian Walden and the then serving Prime Minister, the formidable Margaret Thatcher took place, although I don't remember it being quite as consequential as this two part dramatisation would perhaps indicate. Nevertheless portraying real life interviews can make for good television and sometiimes cinema, as witness the Frost-Nixon exchanges, the two recent programmes on the Prince Andrew / Emily Maitlis tete-a-tete on the BBC "Newsnight" show and I can even recall the infamous exchange between rival football managers Don Revie and Brian Clough being made into a very watchable drama starring Michael Sheen and Colm Meaney a few years back. There's just something about a head-to-head confrontation between two usually media-savvy individuals striving to put across their point of view, although the ones we tend to remember are the ones that go wrong for the interviewee, another recent example being the catastrophic Michelle Mone interview with Laura Kuenssberg. People might also mention the most famous one of all, Princess Diana's confessional outpouring to Martin Bashir, which captivated the nation, but Bashir hardly took the offensive on that occasion and clearly was cleverly played by a Princess determined to have her point of view put across.

Still, this well-made programme certainly brought back the dog-days of Thatcher's near 11-year reign as Prime Minister, and indeed, within months of the broadcast, she had indeed been forced to resign by her own Party, at last sick and tired up of her autocratic ways, ruling her cabinet by dictat rather than consensus.

The show uses the by-now familiar format of retrospectively inserting into the present-day narrative, which actually doesn't amount to much more than watching Walden and Thatcher prepare for the interview, the preceding events, taking us back to Walden's own days in the Commons and Thatcher's surprise rise to power. I'm not sure I recall Walden ever being talked of as a future Labour leader as the show states but he assuredly was up there with the Robin Day's and the Dimbleby brothers as the grand inquisitors of the day.

A picture is built up of a growing mutual respect and possibly even a friendship between the two protagonists with the indication that this led to Walden going soft on Thatcher with each succeeding interview. In the end, Thatcher perhaps takes her relationship with Walden for granted, not receiving his calls and Walden at last reacting adversely to this as well as the promptings of his editorial team that he go on the offensive for once.

That he certainly does in the actual interview, with Thatcher, who coincidentally was at a particular crisis point in her administration with the recent shock resignation of her "unassailable" long-serving Chancellor Nigel Lawson, visibly bristling with each incisive thrust of Walden's. It's no surprise then to learn in a subtitle displayed over the end credits that the pair never talked again after the show.

The two episodes here seemed a bit fleshed out but nevertheless were well staged and very well acted by Steve Coogan and Harriet Walter in the lead parts. I just hope, well-made as they often are, that these heightened dramatisations of documented real-life events never get confused with the real thing! In these days of AI and fake news, you just never know!

Harriet Walter doesn't try to mimic Thatcher's accent very closely, which leads to a more natural, less strangulated performance than those of Meryl Streep and Gillian Anderson. She looks too old, but is otherwise fairly convincing. As for Steve Coogan, I agree with another reviewer who says he often just seems to be playing himself. This is sadly true. Despite slight touches of the voice and diction, he doesn't capture Walden's manner as I remember it (and as we see it in those few seconds at the end.) Also I'd have liked more about the 1989 situation and less of the back story that took up episode 1.

Steve Coogan slips under the skin of the great TV interviewer Brian Walden in a great performance matched by Harriet Walters subtle performance as Margaret Thatcher.

For me this is unbelievably nostalgic as I was a junior cameraman at LWT during the 80's and regularly operated Brian's camera on Weekend World. The depiction of the show itself is very realistic, for the camera crew it was almost as intense as for the politician under Brian Walden's sharp and relentless questioning.

The depiction of LWT and its Studios is a little off as it was a bright modern building even in the 1980's. It is a shame that the filmmakers could not shoot in the real studio, it has been closed since 2018 and is finally being demolished as I write this review.

I wont say anything about the 'cameraman' background artist shown with his hands off the controls mid interview.... You couldn't get away with this with Brian as he squirmed around too much!

RIP Brian Walden, you were the best political interviewer that has ever been. Steve Coogan does you proud.

The program is excellent, but there were more nuances in reality. There were many radical changes under Margaret Thatcher, but by the third term there was already hubris that had caused rumblings, especially over the "poll tax". The real interview was not an obvious defeat, and much longer. The programmes apparent claim that the interview was the start of Margaret Thatcher's downfall is therefore misleading. Plots were already happening because of Lawson's departure and later because of Howe's speech. The epilogue with Margaret Thatcher holding forth after her resignation, looked like a eulogy for her policies, that are now the political norm. Steve Coogan's ability to slip into an character is remarkable. Harriet Walter looked more like Nancy Reagan, but had the right voice and mannerisms. I would say it is a successful, thought-provoking programme.