Nicole Messina

Teacher Interview
TE 822
Fall 2019
Interview Background

The current climate of my school community is not one that I consider to be very multi-

cultural, in terms of this course and in terms of my own personal values. I have only been with

the district for one full year, but from what I have experienced, teaching and curriculum seem to

adhere to the status quo of white, institutionalized ideas. Within the last few years, my district

has held presentations and professional development in which “diversity” was a topic of discus-

sion. During these meetings, many teachers have shared that they also feel that this is an area

where our district needs to grow. With this in mind, I looked to find a teacher in my school who I

knew to have a wealth of knowledge about this topic, but I was faced with a challenge. To be

proactive, I asked my colleagues for teachers within our school who have been known to em-

brace multicultural teaching, but I was left with no suggestions. My principal, this being her first

year, also was not a resource for this endeavor, as she was not familiar with my colleagues’

teaching styles yet.

It being established that multicultural education was not a strong suit for our district, I

was interested in talking to my team of teachers about their experiences within our district, their

own ideas about multicultural education, and why our district still needs to work on embracing

and utilizing this teaching ideology. To do so, I spoke with the three other second grade teachers.

I will use the pseudonyms of Andrea, Lisa, and Sandy to discuss these teachers. Andrea has a

background in special education. She has been teaching 13 years, 11 of them within our school

district. In addition to teaching second grade, she has previously taught in an Autism Spectrum

Disorder classroom. Andrea grew up in our school community and attended our school district as
a student. Lisa has a finance degree and pursued an alternative certification program to gain her

teaching degree. She has been teaching within our district for the past six years. She also attend-

ed our school district as a student. Sandy has a background in child development, English lan-

guage arts, and earth sciences. She has been teaching for 17 years, all within our school district.

While she is not initially from this community, she has lived within the community the duration

of her teaching career. As someone who has not attended or lived in our community, I was par-

ticularly interested to gain their perspectives of our school’s approach to multiculturalism.

To conduct the interview, Andrea, Lisa, Sandy and I sat down together during our daily

professional learning community time. I asked each of them the same questions and we dis-

cussed them together. I typed their responses as they spoke in order to record their ideas. Ques-

tions had been prepared prior to the interview and I gave them to them in order to look over. I

also gave them some brief background information about TE 822 in order to help frame my

questions.

Interview Analysis:

With my goal in mind, to better understanding our district’s approach to multicultural

education, I first asked my colleagues about their personal ideas surrounding multicultural edu-

cation. According to Sleeter (2005) multicultural education serves to improve our society

through the empowerment of marginalized groups of people whose skills are seen as strengths

within our classrooms. This definition of multiculturalism accounts for a variety of diverse

groups including race, class, ability, sexuality, and others. My colleagues’ definitions were more
focused on socioeconomic status. Andrea first initiated the idea when she said, “ Multicultural

where we teach means socioeconomic status since our population doesn’t reflect diverse ethnici-

ties.” Once this notion was initiated, Lisa and Sandy expanded on that idea throughout the con-

versation and did not seem to contend it. What is interesting to me about this is that my col-

leagues appeared to believe that because we do not have diverse groups of people in terms of

race that we largely do not need to address it. At another point in the interview Andrea confirmed

this when asked about ways to support children in seeing their cultures as strengths rather than

deficits. Her response was, “I think that our kids are too young for that. Seven year olds don’t see

themselves as culturally different. Everyone here celebrates Christmas. We are not that different

from each other.”

While Andrea’s first response demonstrated recognition that we do have diverse students

in some capacity, socioeconomic status, her later responses appear to showcase thoughts that re-

flect a greater belief that because our student majority is mainly white, we do not need to address

multicultural education with our young students. These ideas are in great conflict to the ideas that

have been explored through TE 822. One issue that stands out is the idea that the students who

are diverse do not see themselves as different and presumably are not internalizing society’s view

of them. Gholson and Martin (2019) show how students’s beliefs about how others view them

greatly affects the way the student engages within the classroom. This was shown through the

experience of a black student, Cameryn, who frequently shut down in class in order to avoid crit-

icism around her academic performance (Gholson and Martin, 2019). When students’ cultures

are continually ignored and they are held to one standard, the effects can be dangerous. Had so-
ciety shaped itself to fit Cameryn’s needs, rather than her conforming to society’s ideals, this

type of behavior may be possible to avoid. While the majority of our student population is white,

Andrea, Lisa, and Sandy each have four to five students in their class that have other cultural

backgrounds. While these students share many qualities of their white classmates, they may be

beginning to internalize the same feelings about school that Gholson’s and Martins’ (2019)

Cameryn felt in her experience of school. The possibility of that happening is dangerous for the

small percentage of students who are attempting to fit in the status quo. While these students

may appear successful to teachers there is the possibility that they are being torn apart on the in-

side to sustain this appearance.

Thinking back to the tenets of Sleeter’s (2005) definition of multiculturalism, I was also

particularly struck with my colleagues’ ideas about the curriculum. I asked them to share their

thoughts regarding what purpose the curriculum should serve, who should create it, and what

role should students have in constructing lessons around the curriculum. Lisa, Andrea, and Sandy

all were in agreement that the main issue with standards is that they are written by lawmakers

with little knowledge of schools. However, they were more concerned about standards being de-

velopmentally appropriate then culturally sensitive. Lisa did add that because the standards are

so heavy it is hard to include activities that would highlight diversity in the classroom. Lisa’s

perspective does reflect a desire to utilize an additive approach of multiculturalism. Sandy and

Andrea were instead focused on the appropriateness of the standards.To reframe their thinking

back to multiculturalism, I asked my colleagues to think about the effects of the curriculum as it

is on the classroom. I asked about what the roles the students should have in deciding what to
study. My colleagues surprisingly all said that students do not really have a say. Andrea and

Sandy supported their ideas by saying that the students all have to be held to the same standards

and therefore we must teach them. Lisa added that because of assessments and different academ-

ic needs, there is no time to really stray from the standards as they are. In all answers, the main

focus was on the standards and not on ways that students could interact with them to be more

culturally relevant.

Interview Reflection

My interpretation of my colleagues’ statements was not one that I was prepared for. I very

much respect Andrea, Sandy and Lisa as educators. However, I was startled to see how much we

do not agree on regarding issues of multiculturalism. I expected to discuss the issue and explore

the shortcomings of our district. I was surprised to hear their answers presented views in which I

starkly disagree with based both on course readings and my own personal experiences.

Overall, my colleagues responses highlighted what I believe to be a misunderstanding of

multiculturalism and pedagogies related to it. While I knew going into this interview that they

may not necessarily be familiar with the terms associated with it, I quickly understood that they

also were not familiar with many of the ideologies based on responses that were in direct contrast

with the values I have developed throughout TE 822. Lisa seemed the most open to multicultur-

al education, but felt as many teachers do that there is not enough time to really explore these

topics. Andrea and Sandy, while not ill intentioned, have fallen victim to the colorblindness of

whiteness. As Tanner (2018) describes colorblindness, the only way to change that is to become
aware of it. As my colleagues both live and work in our school community, they have not be-

come aware of it. As many of our students and other colleagues experience this same reality, I

think that my district is at a stalemate. Until our community becomes aware of its own whiteness,

we may continue to have issues with multicultural education and diversity.

Sleeter, C. E. (2005). Un-standardizing curriculum. New York, NY: Teachers College Press.

Tanner, S. J. (2018). Whiteness, pedagogy, and youth in America: Critical whiteness studies in
the classroom. Routledge
Appendix
Interviewer: So I have a few questions just about your background and core values as teachers.
First, what brought you into teaching?

Lisa: Well I used to work an office job with my finance degree and I hated it. I started subbing
and I ended up really loving it. I saw that teaching made a difference that you could really see.
After I realized that, I quit my job, started subbing full time, and worked on getting certified.
There was no way I could ever go back to my old job!

Andrea: I have pretty much always wanted to be a teacher but pursued other interests when I got
to college. When I was in college I was a skating coach as well. We were doing a program with
children who had physical impairments. When the kids got on the ice they completely trans-
formed. I loved seeing how that outlet changed the faces of the children and made them feel so
good about themselves. After that, I went back to Wayne State and changed my major to elemen-
tary education with a major in special education. I just really wanted to be able to bring that feel-
ing of those children to other kids within a classroom someday.

Sandy: I don’t know, I just have always really wanted to be a teacher. When I was in high school
I was able to do a program where I worked at a preschool through my school. I just loved being
able to work with those young kids and help them discover new things. I pretty much went right
into college knowing that this was what I wanted to do and have never looked back.

Interviewer: I’m the same way. I just have always wanted to be a teacher.

Interviewer: What is a core value that you hope to instill into your students? Basically, once they
leave your class, what is the main thing that you want them to think about and enact.

Lisa: I think just to be kind. It is so much easier for kids to be mean to each other. I just really
want to show them and encourage them to be kind to themselves and one another. When I
switched into teaching it was because I wanted to make a difference. I think the biggest differ-
ence you can make is by helping children show kindness.

Sandy: To have integrity and do the right thing. You know me, I am always telling my kids to be
aware of their surroundings. I want them to think about what is going on around them. I want
them to be able to make a good choice for themselves because they know it is the right thing to
do and not just because someone is watching or telling them what to do. I always say it, but just
be a good person!

Andrea: I want my kids to have respect for themselves and for others. I don’t tolerate disrespect-
ful behavior or attitudes in my classroom because I think from a young age they have to learn to
treat others the right way. That was what I was always taught and I think that they need to know
that too. Through respect, they are able to learn and grow and we are able to make our classroom
a safe place for the students. Without respect, you can’t even get to anything else.

Interviewer: Thank you. I think that each of you really show that in your classroom. You can see
by how each of you manages and talks to your students. It’s cool to see how your different val-
ues show up in your teaching. Okay, now I would like to ask you more about multicultural edu-
cation and your ideas around it generally and for your classroom. In my course, we have been
exploring multicultural education. I am just wondering what your initial thoughts are on what
multicultural education might mean and how it might look in your classroom.

Andrea: Multicultural where we teach means socioeconomic status since our population doesn’t
reflect diverse ethnicities. However, we do have a vast difference in socioeconomics amongst
students.

Interviewer: What would you say those main demographics are for socioeconomic status?

Andrea: Mostly different working and middle class. A lot of students’ parents work minimum
wage, hourly jobs with varying hours. Other families work in skilled trades, office positions,
things like that. Downriver also has a lot of families that work in trades associated with the au-
tomotive industry still. Those types of jobs create a lot of differences amongst socioeconomic
status because we have families who work in all different positions within that field.

Sandy: Basically we have students who range from their parents working at Little Caesars to
parents who are engineers for automotive plants. There is nothing wrong with that, it just hap-
pens to be that way here.

Interviewer: Okay, so in our school community, socioeconomic status seems to be the biggest
area of multicultural diversity?

Andrea: Yes. Unfortunately our students are never really exposed to anything else in our com-
munity. We try to discuss multiculturalism in class, but our community has always been the
same way. It just does not have a lot of diversity.

Interviewer: Why do you think that is?

Andrea: I think that is is because people tend to stick together. I noticed that when I was teaching
in Dearborn that people who were Arabic tended to stay there. People in our community are
proud to live here and have kept it up as a nice community so they have no desire to leave. Peo-
ple have options to leave but they don’t.

Lisa: I disagree. I think that people take comfort in community. Diverse people aren’t moving
here because they don’t want to move into new opportunities. If a community isn’t welcoming
then people aren’t going to try to move in. I think that is the issue here, people may not feel wel-
come.

Interviewer: So in some ways it may be a choice but in other ways it may be due to circum-
stances? Is that what you are saying?

Andrea: Yes, I think it is mostly due to personal choices influenced by the community.

Lisa: I disagree, it is mostly circumstances that people in a community face that makes them stay
where they are. Ultimately it is a choice they make.

Interviewer: Okay, at this point I’d like to talk about how we do address the socioeconomic dif-
ferences that exist within our classrooms. What kinds of things do you do to support those differ-
ences?

Lisa: The biggest thing we do is expose them to it through books. I try to read books that show
life in all kinds of ways so that all of my students feel important. I also try to include a lot of op-
portunities for students to share their lives through writing. They can do that in our daily journal
or during work on writing. I think that by allowing them to do that they can see that I value their
backgrounds.

Sandy: I try to do as well but also through my morning meeting. We do a daily share and stu-
dents can talk about things going on in their lives. By allowing them to share those experiences I
am showing my students that all of their lives are important. We also do a show and tell. They
can bring anything from their lives that is important to them. Obviously kids will bring in things
that reflect their socioeconomic status but it doesn’t matter because we respect each item and
share equally.

Interviewer: Is there ways that you may do this through the curriculum as well?

Lisa: Not really. It’s hard to add it to our Journeys stories since there is already so much. I spend
most of the day on comprehension and phonics. There is just no room to add anything else to it. I
think math is even harder because it just is what it is.

Sandy: No. The curriculum is just there and it is our job to teach it.

Interviewer: Okay, so approaching multiculturalism is something that you all do more from your
classroom structures and building relationships with students?

Andrea: Yes

Lisa: I agree with that.

Interviewer: Alright, we will come back to that idea in a little. For now I am going to switch
gears a little. Another component of multiculturalism in my course has been the prominence of
deficit thinking around students from diverse backgrounds. Why do you think that some schools
or teachers may view students as having deficits?

Lisa: I don’t think that it is the schools or teachers who think that students have deficits. I think it
is more of society. Kind of like the same way we view special education. Teachers themselves
don’t see those students as having deficits, it’s the way that society has made people think about
it that causes others to view those students poorly.

Andrea: You guys know how I feel and you may disagree. I think it goes back to poverty. People
tend to stick together in those bad situations and are not moving into areas that give them better
chances. Those kids are being seen as deficient because of that. People need to give their kids a
better chance to be successful.

Lisa: I disagree. I think that is the poverty cycle. People are not leaving their kids in worse situa-
tions because they want to. They have to because they have no other choice.

Interviewer: Can you expand on this? How does that relate to viewing the students as having
deficits within the classroom?

Andrea: They don’t turn in their assignments, supplies are not sent in, parents are difficult to
reach, permission slips are missing, things like that. These things are not really the kids’s fault
but it does end up impacting how their teacher views them. I am not saying we should be judging
kids by their parents’ choices but it definitely does come up in how children are viewed.

Interviewer: How about in your own classroom? How do you avoid deficit thinking?

Sandy: By holding all kids to high expectations. Just because they come from a different back-
ground doesn’t mean that they can’t learn the second grade standards. No matter what, I am here
for the kids so I do the best I can to help them all. At the end of the day that’s all that matters.

Lisa: Just by continually reaching out and trying to communicate with their families. Even if it is
hard, I try to build that relationship so that I can know their child better and try to bring that into
the classroom as much as possible.

Andrea: I agree with Teacher Three, it’s all about high expectations and holding all students to
them. It goes back to that idea of respecting yourself. I teach my kids to advocate for themselves,
work hard, and ask for help when they need it. Since all kids in my class know that they have a
voice then I think that helps to avoid deficits. I know some of them do have harder home lives. I
am not personally holding them accountable to that, but I do know that it makes it harder for a lot
of teachers to view them the same way as other students whose parents are more involved.

Interviewer: So are you saying that the perception is being deficient but you look beyond that?

Andrea: Yes, I think that their home lives give the perception of being deficient but as teachers
we have to acknowledge that they are not deficient by holding them to those high standards re-
gardless of what home is like.

Interviewer: Okay, so overall, I am hearing that the main way we avoid deficit thinking is by ac-
tively holding all students to high standards. Is that correct?

Andrea: Yes. You have to do that to give them a chance to be successful.

Lisa: I would agree with that.

Sandy: Yes.

Interviewer: Great, thank you for your ideas. I want to think about that idea of the curriculum.
We talked a little bit earlier about how the curriculum itself makes it hard to teach with multicul-
turalism. In my course we have been exploring curriculum and its role in multicultural education.
What components of the curriculum make it difficult to teach or adapt?

Sandy: I think the biggest barrier is the people who write the curriculum. It’s written by people
who do not even work in schools. They have no idea what even is going on. The lawmakers are
just serving their private agenda and we are just their puppets.

Andrea: Definitely the lawmakers. They write standards that are not even developmentally ap-
propriate. There is not much we can do though because we have to teach it. That’s our jobs.

Interviewer: What changes would you like to make?

Andrea: I think the policy makers should use more of what the research says about what is de-
velopmentally appropriate. We are asking kids to do too much that they are not truly ready.

Interviewer: Let’s think back to multicultural education. Are there changes that we should be
making to reach diverse children.

Andrea: I don’t think so. All kids should be held accountable for learning the same things. The
standards themselves may not be appropriate, but the idea that all kids learn the same standards
is correct.
Lisa: The standards are definitely an issue. It feels that they were written by people who do not
know children. It is asking a lot of students who are still working on social emotional skills and
work habit skills. They need to be given more time to develop. If that changed, I think there
would be more room to do the things we want to create more diverse environments for our stu-
dents. The way things are right now, it just does not feel possible.

Interviewer: Basically, the issue is with the standards and the people who make it. It sounds like
you are saying the focus should be more on changing the standards themselves than to make
changes within the classroom?

Lisa: Yes because then there would be more space and time to explore other topics if standards
were not being pushed down.

Andrea: I agree with that.

Sandy: Me too.