The Creative Music Recording Magazine

Morton Subotnick
electronic pioneer & Silver Apples of the Moon

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Amanda Shires
Take It Like a Man, The Highwomen
Lawrence Rothman
producing Amanda @ RCA Studio B

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Hill Kourkoutis

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Canada’s Recording Engineer of the Year
Tony Hoffer

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Belle & Sebastian, M83, Beck, Air, Ziggy Marley
Tunde Adebimpe
TV On The Radio & Tinariwen in the desert l
Robert Schneider
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Elephant 6, Apples In Stereo
Kenny Siegal
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Chris Whitley, Langhorne Slim, HUNK

The Next Big Thing?

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Gear Reviews
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$ 5 . 9 9 N o . 1 5 5
J u n e / J u l y 2 0 2 3
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 Hello and
welcome to
Tape Op
10 Letters #155!

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12 Next Big Thing In Music Production?
14 Hill Kourkoutis
20 Tony Hoffer
26 Tunde Adebimpe

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30 Amanda Shires & Lawrence Rothman

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36 Morton Subotnick
44 Kenny Siegal
p a g e

50 Robert Schneider

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58 Gear Reviews
74 Larry’s End Rant
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While brainstorming the “Not So Oblique Strategies” End Rant for this issue, I was reminded of a very
simple, but truthful (and not so oblique), thought I’ve been trying to convey via Tape Op for decades:
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Creating a place and time for music to be recorded is as important as

the tools used to capture the sounds. In fact, I think it’s more important.
Whether it’s in a commercial studio, setting up a personal space at home, or using other locales as
tracking rooms, we all must decide on the place where music will be made and recorded. Then, even more
important, comes the task of setting a start and stop time for when the session will take place, as well
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as determining the goals to reach and what methodology to use. But there are always so many
distractions that can deter us.
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I don’t know how many “solo albums” I have meant to start that end up getting pushed aside for
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other tasks. When I work at home, I often find myself distracted with daily chores. When I visit my studio
on an open day, I might find myself unintentionally getting wrapped up in updating software, repairing
headphones, or sorting out cables. Before I know it, the time that I’d hoped I would spend recording
my own music has filled with tasks. We all have work to do, and keeping any studio space running is
important. However, despite the many myths, creativity often doesn’t “just happen.” It needs a set time
and place to flourish.
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Find a place, pick a time, and work on the music you wish to capture or create. This simple act of
focusing is the first step towards getting results.
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Larry Crane, Editor & Founder

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 The Creative Music Recording Magazine

Editor & Founder

Larry Crane
Publisher & Graphic Design
John Baccigaluppi
Online Publisher
Geoff Stanfield
CTO & Digital Director
Anthony Sarti/BPXI/O
Production Manager & Gear Reviews Editor
Scott McChane (with Jonathan Saxon)

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Gear Geek at Large
Andy Hong

Contributing Writers & Photographers

Cover art by Isaac Karns <www.infinitedirectionscards.com>
Mark Rubel, Sadie Dupuis, Tony SanFilippo, Joel Hamilton, Chris Mara,

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Lisa Machac, Jessica Thompson, Adam Selzer, Pete Weiss, David Barbe,
Laura Joy, Elliott Sharp, Ian Brennan, Suzanne Ciani, John Dougherty,

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Rayon Richards, Daniel Ryan Morse, Kirt Shearer, Adam Kagan,
Garrett Haines, Mike Kosacek, Don Gunn, Ben Bernstein, Jacob Light,
Mark “Frosty’ McNeill, Scott Evans, and Dave Hidek.

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Editorial and Office Assistants
Jenna Crane (editorial copy editor), Jonathan Saxon (copy editing),
Taylor Danner (transcriptions), Hazel Stanfield (online),
Maria Baker (admin, accounting), Shawn Scott (graphics).

Disclaimer
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TAPE OP magazine wants to make clear that the opinions expressed within reviews, letters, and
articles are not necessarily the opinions of the publishers. Tape Op is intended as a forum to
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advance the art of recording, and there are many choices made along that path.

Editorial Office
(For submissions, letters, music for review. Music for review is also
reviewed in the San Rafael office, address below)
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P.O. Box 86409, Portland, OR 97286 voicemail 503-208-4033

All unsolicited submissions and letters sent to us become the property of Tape Op.

Advertising
John Baccigaluppi
916-444-5241, <john@tapeop.com>
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Marsha Vdovin
415-420-7273, <marsha@tapeop.com>
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Subscribe online at tapeop.com

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(Notice: We sometimes rent our subscription list to our advertisers.)

Subscription and Address Changes

Can all be made online at <tapeop.com/subscriptions>.
Back issues can be purchased via <tapeop.com/issues>. If you have
subscription issues that cannot be fixed online, email
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<circulation@tapeop.com> or send snail mail to

PO Box 151079, San Rafael, CA 94915.
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Please do not email or call the rest of the staff about subscription issues.

Postmaster and all general inquiries to:

Tape Op Magazine, PO Box 151079, San Rafael, CA 94915
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(916) 444-5241 <tapeop.com>

Tape Op is published by Single Fin, Inc. (publishing services)
and Jackpot! Recording Studio, Inc. (editorial services)
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www.tapeop.com
8/Tape Op#155/Masthead
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 I have loved your magazine First off, don’t blame the gear. An SM7B can be the best
since first finding it in the mic for certain jobs (as I’m sure you know), and a
early ‘90s at Furies Studio in Cloudlifter and its ilk can be a lifesaver, especially when
Atlanta and Chase Park paired with an inexpensive audio interface/mic preamp
Transduction [#14] in and a ribbon mic. But I also think people buying the
Athens. I’ve read every “wrong” gear and using it inappropriately is kind of the
issue cover to cover, history of personal recording. Don’t you think the bigger
and it’s transformed my question is: Why don’t people learn to listen deeper, do
creative practice. I work at more research, try a variety of gear (borrow from pals!)
As a cover-to-cover reader and huge fan of Tape Op for a middle school, where I teach kids how to make beats, and techniques, and start building up their actual
many years, I must say that I found Ian Brennan’s masterful do electronic music arrangement in Ableton [Live], and recording skills? Because they’re hoping there’s a quicker
interview with Gaelynn Lea Tressler [Tape Op #152] to be how to play rock and pop music live – School of Rock- fix; an answer from someone else, so they don’t have to
the most inspiring piece I’ve yet read. Thank you! style. My students introduced me to the genre of music do all the hard work. And maybe they want to jump in
Sam Howard <samhowardmusic.com> called “lo-fi hip-hop,” and I had the same reaction as and record their music! Right? -LC
Thank you for the Eric “ET” Thorngren interview! [Tape you did [in the Tape Op #153 intro]; “This doesn’t sound A question that is always in the back of my mind: Is it
Op #153] Eric is a unique mixer who I was lucky enough like low fidelity.” I think, for today’s generation, lo-fiworth repairing broken gear? My list includes a Shure
to assist in the ‘80s on projects with Peter Wolf, Joe translates into chill or relaxed vibes as opposed to SM57, a dbx 560, a Drawmer gate with one working
anything about audio fidelity. I guess the term has just

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Strummer, and Tom Petty, among others. I learned a lot channel out of two, a small Sennheiser mixer, and others.
from him, including how to think about and apply delays changed for today’s kids! It’s wild! Thanks for With gear like this going for low prices, which are you just
in terms of note length (like sixteenth or dotted eights), everything ya’ll do! better off buying again? If you aren’t savvy at repairs
and creating unique spaces for different parts. One Casey Scott <goldensection13@gmail.com> yourself, which gear should you hire a pro to repair? Which
interesting thing I noticed was when I would leave the I’ve been a long-time reader of Tape Op. Thanks for the gear should you donate and where? What gear does the
control room for food or coffee and come back, the mix constant inspiration and education. I personally love landfill want? I would love an end rant or an article, but

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would have jumped up exponentially. I finally realized Tape Op and have purchased the digital Complete Box will settle for a few comments. Thank you for
Set. I am so grateful for you and your team highlighting the love!

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that the last element he would bring up was the bass
guitar! He’s a super gentleman and loves to share his the ups and downs of the recording world. If we ever Matt Stivers <stuntdrummer@gmail.com>
knowledge. One of his sayings from back then was, “I like meet in person, I’d love to buy you a beer. Thank you! First, decide what broken gear you really need, or wish
to make the bass and drums really big, and then Brian Starley <bergatronmusic.com>

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was working. Sometimes we’re just wasting our time on
intimidate them with the other instruments!” Thanks for I’ll definitely take a beer, please. John would like a glass these fool’s errands. I always try to send broken gear to the
the interview. Your mag is the best! of red wine. Thanks so much!-LC original manufacturer (or a suggested service center), as
Mark Cobrin <offsiteaudio.com>
Can we address the [Shure] SM7B/[Cloud Microphones] they know what to look for, have parts on hand, and can
Re: End Rant 153 [“What the F#ck is ‘Industry Cloudlifter plague? Just look at any online forum (like usually save time on repair costs. Heck, it might even still
Standard’?”] Has the “random critic” considered that the Reddit): Lots of newbies are following the cargo cult of be under warranty, and many times I’ve had smaller
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artist might have wanted the record to sound the way it YouTube, buying an SM7B, and then wondering why it’s companies repair their gear for the cost of shipping and
does? An intentional act? Standards are fluid. so quiet. Then they’re told to buy a Cloudlifter, which parts. They’d rather you were using it than throw it away!
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John and Alan Lomax’s standard was a 350-pound disc promises to solve all of their problems. Never mind that But this is always a difficult question with gear that sells
recorder dragged to a Louisiana prison. Aretha Franklin’s it’s probably the wrong mic for the application, and they new for less than $500. Take your dbx 560, for example. It
“I Never Loved a Man (The Way I Love You)” clearly meets don’t know how to use it. sells new for $275 and used for $175. Can a typical repair
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no standards. The vocal is totally distorted (that’s a Tom Andy Peters <via Facebook> person fix it easily? Maybe, if it’s a simple loose wire,
Dowd story for another day) and the piano is out of tune! broken potentiometer, or bad switch, but even a quick local
Ray Charles’ Ray Charles in Person (perhaps the greatest Over the years, I personally have come to love my SM7B, repair is likely $100 or more. For deeper repairs, sending it
record ever made) was recorded in mono with one mic, and use it with increasing regularity. For some singers it is back to dbx is a far better option, but those costs could add
200 feet away! Clearly no standards were applied there. just the right mic choice. I do have preamps that have loads up. Basically, for all these scenarios you listed, I would
of gain that I pair it with, so that has never been an issue. figure out what the gear is worth used at this point in time,
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Geoff Daking <daking.com>

Regarding the Cloudlifter, I will say that when the singer in get a repair estimate (try the manufacturer first), and, if
I’m always excited when the new issue of Tape Op arrives
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my personal project sent vocal tracks with a chain of SM7B you would lose money selling it after the repair, then sell
in the mail. I was also excited to see Jerry Harrison’s name paired with a Cloudlifter and a Daking preamp, the results off the “as-is” unit on <reverb.com> for someone else to
on the cover [#153]. I sat down, turned to the interview,
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were fantastic. Early in my recording career, I bought some sort out. A long time ago I decided little projects like these
and started reading it. I freaked out when I read Harrison pieces of gear that I saw at studios I was working in that had to quickly get cleared out of my studio (and brain) in
talking about Gestalt psychology! My minor in school was met a certain criteria. They were affordable and, “If so-and- order to move forward. Best of luck! -LC
psychology, and I became a student of Gestalt. Basically, so has this mic here, it must be decent.” I remember seeing
I “reset” my thinking. I also read Psycho-Cybernetics; a an SM7 next to a vintage Neumann M 49 for Eddie Vedder’s
self-help book written by Maxwell Maltz. Using the steps vocals at Studio X in Seattle, and I thought, “That must
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Maltz suggested changed my life as a musician! He writes have some value!” It’s the same reason that we all also
about setting goals, and how to meet people that will
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have a bunch of Shure SM57s in our mic lockers. They just

help you reach a goal. For me, it was to start hanging work. Sometimes you get a mic because you see it
around music stores to meet other musicians. I’ve read everywhere, and then you figure out how and when to use
many, many times in Tape Op where a person wanted to it later. The SM7 was certainly that for me. -GS
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be a recording engineer, went to a studio, and worked for

them (maybe as a tape op) to learn about recording. They
are, perhaps unknowingly, using psycho-cybernetics. Send Letters & Questions
Tony Houston to: editor@tapeop.com
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<theprimetimebluesband.godaddysites.com>
10/Tape Op#155/Letters/(Fin.)
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 For hobbyist musicians on a budget, it’d have to be
The Next Big Thing In Music Production? artificial intelligence mixing and mastering. AI is
becoming more and more impressive, turning out mixes
We recently received a query from a curious reader, Tzuriel Kastel. Tzuriel wanted and masters that sound acceptable, and sometimes very
to know, “What do you see as the next big thing in music production?” I passed impressive. I think this will hurt mixing and mastering
this on to various Tape Op contributors and people we’ve interviewed to see what engineers who have relied on home recordists who hire
they envision. Here are some thoughts about the future of recording music! -LC them to make their music sound “professional.” Sites
like SoundBetter, Fiverr, and AirGigs have been
My fervent hope is that perfection and technical quality Obviously, the pandemic inspired a lot of musicians to successful at linking those recording at home with
will be devalued, and the delivery of authentic emotion by start recording and producing their own music. I’m most talented mixing and mastering engineers, but if the
talented musicians, by any means, will become one of the excited when advanced technologies are utilized by musician can get a sound they are happy with using AI,
elements of music that most causes it to rise to the novices. When beginners aren’t familiar with the “right” that will likely be much cheaper.
attention of those who care. Hopefully budget, way to do things, they often produce innovative and Adam Selzer <www.adamselzerworks.com>
promotion/hype, and gatekeepers will become irrelevant interesting creations. For me, the future of music For all the troubling implications (i.e., robots will
in a newly democratized market where scarcity has been production includes making space for these innovators revolt and take over!), AI has been gaining huge strides
replaced by abundance. The music business needs effective by valuing new perspectives and techniques... the next in both the audio and visual worlds lately. The use of it
economic and legal adjustment, but it’s still my belief that big thing is something that they will create! in audio restoration, “de-mixing,” and more is already

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now is the best possible time to make music. Lisa Machac <omnisoundproject.com> well established (with sometimes astonishing results),
Mark Rubel <mrubel@theblackbirdacademy.com> The tools we have to manipulate and sculpt sound are so I can imagine it becoming “a next big thing” in
This is less a trend prediction than citing one I want more sophisticated and more accessible than ever. And creative use as well.
undone: I’m personally burnt out on scarcely-there yet – I probably sound like a broken record here – what Pete Weiss <www.weissy.com>
percussion in pop. I’d love to hear weirder, bolder, and I hope we see (and hear) in music production is a One is greater mobility and less dependence on brick

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busier beats in drums-forward arrangements. It was recalibration around the value of craft versus the ease of and mortar studios. I truly love studios. Big, small,
heartening to hear that Billie Eilish’s current favorite approximating craft with AI. I have nothing against classics, and garages... they all have their charms. I own

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band is, apparently, Cake – because I’d also be down to tools developed with neural nets, and I use iZotope’s RX one and love going to others all over the world as a
hear more vibraslap in this future that I’m envisioning. suite and Zynaptiq’s plug-ins all the time. They’re freelancer, but, as with everything else in our lives,
Sadie Dupuis <www.sadiedupuis.com> phenomenal and make my job easier. But they don’t young people and emerging technologies shape the

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Speculating about the next big thing isn’t my forte, replace the craft of listening and making a cascade of future. We have moved seamlessly from DAWs requiring
as I tend to simply go about my business of trying to decisions that shape our experience with, and a sizable desktop computer to small laptops and tablets.
help clients fulfill their dreams. I will say that plug-ins connection to, music. I hope we can marvel at these There is no reason to think that trend won’t keep moving
that have an “active” component are both gaining tools while still valuing human input, fallibility, and forward as well. The pandemic shifted so much work to
ground and getting better. Tools such as [Wavesfactory] community in songwriting, production, mixing, and remote locations, and now that we continue to learn to
mastering.
Trackspacer and [oeksound] Soothe are not simply
affecting the audio, but also analyzing it and processing
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Jessica Thompson <www.jessicathompsonaudio.com> that way. If I was a young person starting out now, I
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based on the analysis. These will likely continue to help Artificial intelligence for music production has been a would make my production system as portable as
us all work in a more refined way. major topic of the annual A3E conferences since the first possible, and I would plan to use studios only when
Tony SanFilippo <Record@OxideLounge.com> one in 2014 [Tape Op #104]. By now, most of us have needed. A creative person can sample more flavors that
way; just as I found in my early days as a freelancer, it
I am hopeful that the next big thing in production heard the promise of AI reshaping how music will be
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was illuminating and extremely helpful when I finally

will be to place more value on individualism. I find made in the future. Almost a decade later, this idea is
built my own studio. I feel that studios will survive
myself cheerleading for humanity more and more with more real than ever, especially with OpenAI making its
because so many of us love them. At the same time, I
each passing year. I personally cherish the outliers, the generative pre-trained transformer models DALL-E
have no fears about going out of business. That is a
mutants, and the ones that defy easy categorization. If publicly available for image creation, as well as ChatGPT
possibility for any business. When it happens, you learn
we all made music that sounded different from each for written conversation. Both of these products are eye-
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from the experience and move on. Moving on is what

other, wouldn’t that give rise to a more thriving set of opening, to say the least. Meanwhile, OpenAI MuseNet
evolving as a creative person is all about. I feel like a
choices? What if all the farmers only grew one and Jukebox have received far less general press, but
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collector of ideas and knowledge, picking up pieces

vegetable? Aside from praying for this miracle, I would there are many companies offering virtual instruments
along the way and constantly adding to my skill set
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have to say Dolby Atmos. for music generation that use those models, in addition
to others. On the tools and processors side of music- without ever subtracting. Today’s young people have an
Joel Hamilton <www.studiogbrooklyn.com>
making, there are now dozens of software tools that exciting future in front of them. The other is the
The obvious answer is, “I don’t know,” but with some leverage AI to analyze and affect sound from the likes of somewhat comical, but realistic, observation that
reflection on the last couple of years, I have a thought: iZotope, Focusrite, and Hit’n’Mix. Coincidentally, right sooner or later everything that goes out of style makes
I’ve watched the industry poke around on new before I clicked “send” on this answer, my buddy F. Reid a comeback. The 1960s reemerged in the 1980s. The
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technologies such as NFTs, AI “artists,” and Shippen [#125] messaged me a MusicRadar article 1970s re-emerged in the 1990s. While I am not
cryptocurrencies with limited success. Meanwhile, tours describing how YouTuber “Burned Guitarist” used advocating a return to Alesis ADATs and Tascam DA88s,
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are selling out in record speed, which tells me people are ChatGPT to code a VST plug-in inspired by the Ibanez I do wonder what in the not-too-distant past will revisit
getting back to the basics as fans searching out Tube Screamer pedal. I did my own test just now by our productions in the not-too-distant future.
authentic experiences. Perhaps the big “new” thing in asking ChatGPT, “Can you write me code for a low-pass David Barbe <www.chaseparktransduction.com>
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music production will take the same route – back to the filter VST plug-in?” Call me impressed.
Thanks to Tzuriel Kastel: <soundcloud.com/tzurielk>
basics of making records with people together in the Andy Hong <andy@tapeop.com>
room capturing a “moment.” Is this a self-serving
forecast rooted in hope versus fact? Only time will tell!
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Chris Mara <www.welcometo1979.com>

12/Tape Op#155/Next Big Thing
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Hill Kourkout is
T h r i v i ng a n d G r o w i ng

by L i s a M a c h a c
p ortrait by

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L a u r a J oy P h o t og r ap h y

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 A songwriter, producer, mixer, engineer, multi- That might have fed it. Every step that I’ve taken in everybody had Pro Tools. I thought, “Okay, if I’m
instrumentalist, director, and actress, Hill Kourkoutis my life has been working towards this goal in some going to be serious about this, then I need to get Pro
is based in Barrie, a small town outside of Toronto, way or another; or at least that’s how it’s felt. A lot Tools.” So, I went to Long & McQuade, our music
Canada. In addition to her recording and production of opportunities came to me that I wasn’t necessarily store here in Canada. They had a sale going on, and
work, she creates music videos and mentors planning on doing. I always imagined myself being they had a [Digidesign] Digi 002. It was what I could
emerging artists. In 2022, Hill was awarded an artist. I didn’t necessarily imagine that I would be afford at the time. I was still recording with SM58s
Canada’s JUNO Award for Recording Engineer of the in a studio, or become a touring musician, or any of and 57s. It was in that year too that I ended up
Year. She recently chatted with Lisa Machac, of that. That naturally came forth as a result of me not getting my first condenser mic, a Neumann TLM 49,
Omni Sound Project, about her career, her studio wanting to miss out on an opportunity to learn. which I still use to this day. It’s one of my favorite
(The Lair), and her plans for the future. When you were starting as a musician, mics. It was a very basic setup. I had these Yorkville
was your goal to perform? monitors, and my Digi 002 rig that I would plug in
I know you’re a musician, first and Initially it was being on stage, but I quickly discovered directly to, record sounds, and figure out how to
foremost. Was that how you entered that being on stage terrified me. It still does. I’ll do manipulate them afterwards. That’s also when I got
audio engineering? it, but it’s not necessarily the thing that feeds my into soft synths, because they were finally starting to
Absolutely. When I was younger, I started out with soul. I do love connecting with people, and that is a sound amazing, like the early versions of the Arturia
guitar, got into piano, and also writing my songs. beautiful moment to have when you are performing. synths. I was also using early Native Instruments
Because I wanted to play everything on the demos, I Music is a conduit for expression. As a kid, when I software, like Absynth and Massive.
started to teach myself how to play bass. I was like, started writing my first songs, that was my way of It was a good time to be entering into

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“How much harder can this be? It has two less strings trying to process the world around me. It was music and audio.
than a guitar!” [laughter] Then I taught myself how therapeutic and cathartic. Music became another For sure. I came into it from a digital perspective. It’s
to play drums as well. My studio has a bunch of voice of expression to process the world around me. been cool over the years to find myself going into an
random little instruments in it, so whatever I need to That’s where the initial spark came from. It’s just analog world. I have a bit of a hybrid setup at home
pick up to get the job done, I will. It doesn’t mean different forms of expression. It’s being able to now, but at the time I was strictly digital. It was in

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I’m proficient on it. My first producer for my first band articulate myself through different colors and voices. working in other studios that I got to pick up on the
ended up bringing his PC and full computer tower Has your family always been supportive analog way of doing things. In particular, the tape

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over to my parents’ basement. Up until that point, I of you carving out this little space for machine is something I use more as an effects thing.
thought you had to go to a recording studio to make yourself at home since they weren’t It’s there to play with. I love tape delay, so that’s how
music, so that was a big “wow” moment for me. It necessarily musical? it’s set up right now. I always have the option of

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opened up the possibilities of being independent in They were definitely supportive. They initially were recording to 1/4-inch if I want to, but I don’t always
music-making. That’s what sparked it. I ended up hoping that I would go down a “safer path,” but they have the luxury with deadlines to start messing
getting this software called Cool Edit Pro [by always were supportive. As long as I adhered to my around, especially now that there are some great plug-
Syntrillium Software, now Adobe Audition]. I learned studies and I stayed on the honor roll, they were ins that do tape delay effects. I use analog more for
how to record into my computer first. It was the happy to support what I was doing. My mom and dad colors and textures. A lot of the time I’ll record
would drive me to my gigs in Toronto, on a school through a preamp, or whatever, but I use a lot of
computer mic, and then that graduated into a Shure
SM58. As I dove in deeper – and began working out
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night, and drive me back at one in the morning; I’d analog gear in the mixing stage. I’ll use it almost as a
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of other studios – the gear and the software became always be on the last slot of the bill. They helped me re-amp situation. We’re balancing a lot of projects
more sophisticated. put together my first studio, and they invested in my now, and I don’t think I’d be able to recall everything
I went to visit my cousin in New York first instrument. I owe a lot to them, that they let me on a console every time I try to do something. There’s
back then, and he had a brand new explore this passion of mine. way too much happening. I love being able to use the
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Mac. He was like, “It’s got this thing From there, where did opportunities older analog equipment as character pieces, adding
called GarageBand.” He was using take you? little bits of color and character here and there, but
just the keyboard, not even a MIDI Once I was playing in Toronto, I started to meet this also while still being able to work in that digital
keyboard, and programming all incredible community of artists that opened up the workflow. There’s been such a huge acceleration in the
these beats. I was like, “What?” world to me. I was tagging onto these other bills and technology, even in the last few years. I’m constantly
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It’s incredible! It totally opens up your world. That was playing more shows. Eventually I was getting asked blown away by all the UAD plug-ins. I’ve had friends
the first wave of bedroom production. I found it to play in my friends’ bands, as a musician for hire. who have A/B’d actual analog units with their plug-
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inspiring. It’s definitely what informed my future Then, through those relationships, I began to co- ins, and there is no difference with a lot of them. It’s
trajectory into audio engineering. That, and not write with other artists. I started to tour when I was pushing the envelope, technologically.
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having the budget to record my songs in studios around 17 or 18. I simultaneously was producing You have a degree in film, too?
with producers. myself around that time. After a couple of years of I do, yeah. I got the film bug when I was a teenager. I
You started playing when you were getting used to that, and finally getting demos that lived in a small hamlet, and my weekends were spent
really young? didn’t sound like complete crap, my friends began watching movie marathons playing on cable. I was
I did. The first thought I can remember is that I wanted asking me to record them. Because I could play a becoming obsessed with film. Then an opportunity
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to play guitar; I think I was three years old. We’d go bunch of instruments, write songs, and produce, my came up when I was 16 years old to be on a television
to a lot of these free cultural events in Toronto. On friends were coming to me to get their demos done. series [Radio Free Roscoe]. They were looking to cast a
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this particular day, there was a Greek band playing on Eventually the demos turned into singles or albums, young girl who could play drums. I wasn’t really an
stage and I apparently weaseled my way up there. I and that’s when other people heard my work and actor, but I went to the audition, and I ended up
grabbed a tambourine and started playing. I came to me for production. getting the part. Being in that environment was
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remember I wanted so deeply to be a part of this What was that setup like when you first inspiring, and I got to see how TV and films are made.
band and play music with them, even though I didn’t were recording others? I was interested in the technological aspect of
know what I was doing. It was always this thing in I was still recording in my bedroom at my parents’ everything, so I remember hanging out with everybody
me. I didn’t necessarily come from a family of house. By that time, I’d graduated to a laptop. I had I could and asking them questions on set. I’d be
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musicians, but I came from a family of music lovers. worked out of other studios in the city, and I noticed hanging out with the audio guys, the director, the
H. Kourkoutis/(continued on page 16)/Tape Op#155/15
 assistant director, and the producer. When I wasn’t on or I can walk ten minutes down the street and be in What do you consider yourself these
camera, I would be watching everything behind the a little downtown hub where there are clubs. When I days? A producer, engineer, or
scenes. That influenced and propelled me towards made the decision to move out here, I brought the musician? Do you feel like you’re
wanting to get a degree in film. My parents wanted me studio here. I’ve always felt comfortable creating in a doing all of them simultaneously?
to go to university. We were entertaining a medical home-type environment. I find that the artists I work I had to narrow it down. I wanted to find a way to
degree, but it didn’t feel like the right path for me. I with prefer that too, because we’re able to be on our exercise as many of these as possible within one
already knew that I wanted to be in the entertainment own time. We’re not worried about the clock and how framework. Between the production, engineering,
industry, and in music specifically, but I didn’t much time we have left. It’s a safe environment to be songwriting, and being a multi-instrumentalist, that’s
necessarily want to go to school for music. I was bad able to explore and find sounds. It was important to where I’ve found my home. It keeps my days
at practicing, and most university programs for music me to find a space that can house my studio. My interesting, because I’m always using those skill sets,
are performance-based programs. I learned classical studio now is essentially a room, but I have the entire but some days I might be focusing more on the
piano and voice growing up, but it wasn’t where my house to record, so I can run cables into any room. songwriting aspect. I don’t necessarily exclusively
heart was. As much as I appreciate that music, I wasn’t Is anything sound treated or is it just an engineer something. Usually, the engineering is part
schooled that way. I told my parents, “If I’m not going older home? of my production work. I’d say that all those are
to do that, then I definitely want to go to school for It’s an older home with tall ceilings. I’ve never really symbiotic for me at this point. Most of the time I’m
film.” That’s when I went to Ryerson University, which treated the rooms I’ve been in. I know that might seeing a project through from beginning to end.
is now called Toronto Metropolitan University. I spent sound bizarre to some people, but, for me, I’ve There are some records where an artist comes to me
four years getting my Bachelor of Fine Arts in Film always gotten to know the rooms and what they with a body of work that’s already been written, and

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Studies. In my second year, I had some friends who sound like, and I’ve always been able to work in other times I’m involved in the writing process. A lot
asked me to make some music videos for them. I feel those environments. If I know my monitors and of the time that’s how I end up working with artists.
like I’ve gotten into everything accidentally. That’s how room, I know what it’s supposed to sound like. I We’ll have written a song, and I’ll produce a demo. If
my whole life has gone. I saw an opportunity again, love that a space can be transformed. I love that they like it, they’ll come to me to finish it. The
and, as terrifying as it was – because I didn’t know if I want to make use of my tall ceilings that I can majority of the time I end up mixing those

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what I was doing, – I dove in. I also had a part-time do that. It’s not the first time I’ve made a vocal productions. There are also some cases where I’ll be
job as an executive assistant at a music video booth out of mic stands and blankets; whatever’s working on a pop record where there are multiple

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production house in Toronto. They ended up taking me going to serve the record. That’s part of the fun in producers, and they’re taking everything to one mixer
on as a director, and repped me for a few years while recording, finding ways to execute the things that to make everything cohesive. I want to serve the
I was focused on directing music videos. I’m hearing and experimenting. I like having that project at the end of the day, in any capacity, and I’m

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I recently interviewed Isabelle Banos flexibility in my space. happy to be a part of it.
for Tape Op. She is in Montreal. Are people willing to travel to you You’re totally self-taught, right?
The Canadian art scene, from an to record? I’ve observed a lot of people. I think that’s the best
American perspective at least, seems For sure. I wanted to make sure that I was still way to learn, to ask questions and watch how other
so supportive; like everyone is accessible. I’m right on the GO Transit train line that people work. Because this profession is an ever-
making an effort to give a lot of goes right into Toronto. Even if an artist doesn’t drive,
l evolving landscape technologically, we’re always
people opportunities and include all they’re able to get here easily. If I had moved several learning. I try to get out and talk to my producer
genders. Is that observation accurate,
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hours out of the city, it might be a little more difficult; and engineer friends about what types of gear
in your perspective? but the accessibility factor was important to me, and they’re using and what techniques they’re
Absolutely. We’re lucky to have grant bodies here that it was a part of my decision-making process when I implementing. That’s how I learned a lot, outside of
allow artists to make records. That has been important decided to move. the trial and error of trying to figure out how to do
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in the growth of our community. We do have a diverse Has the move been beneficial to your this in my bedroom when I started out. I loved
community of artists here. That’s why I haven’t own creativity as a musician? sitting next to other engineers. I watched every
restricted myself to working in one genre of music. For sure. It’s hard, because when you’re doing your single thing that they did. I was interested in the
There are so many amazing and inspiring artists. That passion for a living, there’s not a great boundary for hands-on process, and I wanted to soak up as much
has definitely fostered this incredible community. when you shut it off. It’s always running. Finding ways as I could, so I’ve learned a lot from my peers.
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Do you see what we’re seeing in Austin, to replenish that well of energy that’s expelled when Do any studios come to mind that
[Texas], in the sense that both Austin I create is important. I try to take the time to have you’ve spent a lot of time in that
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and Toronto are growing as a tech other hobbies that fuel my creativity, without having were influential?
hubs, and that means the rents are an expectation attached. As much as I love what I do Sony had a studio here in Toronto in their label offices
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going high enough to where the every day, there is an expectation attached to it that that I worked out of quite a bit. There’s an incredible
artists are being pushed out? Is your I have to deliver something, as well as to keep people studio in Toronto I used called the Canterbury [Music
city doing anything to protect that? happy. I’m gardening a lot. I have a quarter acre to Company]. Initially I had done a few sessions there as
It’s been crazy. The rent in Toronto is one of the highest work with, so I’ve built some garden boxes and I’m a musician for hire, and since then I’ve worked there
in North America. It’s rivaling a lot of American cities. growing vegetables, herbs, and flowers. I love as a producer as well. What’s interesting about the
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It’s hard to be an artist in a city that is essentially spending time in my yard. It’s a meditative space for workflow is that it’s an incredible room to record live
pushing us out. There have been a lot of other cities me. I become hyperaware of the little ecosystem that off the floor. I can still get some beautiful isolation,
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that artists have been moving to, that are then exists back there. I recognize the same birds and the but, at the same time, you can get that feeling that
creating another scene of music. Toronto’s changed a same squirrels every day. That’s become important for you get with that live, off the floor recording. That
lot since I started. We don’t have as many venues to my mental health, and for my creativity. I love to studio’s always been extremely inspiring to me, and
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perform live at anymore. A lot of those shut down cook, so that’s a huge part of my life. I like to take the engineers that work there are incredible. They
during the pandemic. I moved to Barrie, about an time at the end of the day to make a proper meal and have this beautiful vintage [8026] Neve board, and
hour north of Toronto. It feels like a small town vibe, nourish my body. I also take that time to listen to I’m a sucker for a vintage Neve board.
after being in a bigger city. Everything’s also close by, other music, or listen to the music I’ve been working Who isn’t?
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so I can drive ten minutes and be in complete nature, on and have a different perspective on it.
16/Tape Op#155/H. Kourkoutis/(continued on page 18)
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 I know, right? That space has always been extremely She started by producing her records in secret. She drums, which I don’t do as much here. When I’m
inspiring to me. My friend, John Dinsmore, has a was signed to EMI, but created a pseudonym of a tracking drums, the room is so important. I love the
place called Lincoln County Social Club. It’s got such man’s name because, at the time, I guess the label freedom of being able to find the right room for the
a down-to-earth feeling. It’s filled with vintage didn’t think she could produce her own records. She record, to capture that character; but I also love
equipment, like broadcast compressors that he’s produced the whole record, delivered it, and they’re being self-sufficient. I’d like to have more of that
running the drums through. He gets some great like, “This is great!” Then she said, “By the way, I capability here, where we’re not dependent on going
sounds. It gives everything a certain character. produced this.” She was doing this in the early ‘80s. to different spaces.
You received the Juno Award for She was my first professional co-write I ever did. Do you see yourself staying in the
Recording Engineer of the Year in Before I went into that co-write, I was aware of who Toronto area for a long time?
2022. Were you the first woman she was and the music that she had made, and I was I think so. This is an incredible music city. If we’re going to
nominated, or the first to win? so excited and nervous. foster our communities, we can’t leave them. We have
Both. What are you still looking forward to to stay, and help each other thrive and grow. I love
Congratulations! Are there other women learning? What do you want for your being here. I love being close to my family. We have
who came before who inspired you? studio and your career? such incredible musicians. We have incredible artists. I’m
For sure! My first idea of a female engineer came from I want to be able to continue with the projects I’ve been always going to see this as my home base. r
reading the liner notes on Sheryl Crow’s first few working on with these amazing artists. I feel blessed <www.hillkourkoutis.com>
records. When I saw that she had produced her music, to be able to choose to work on the projects I’m
and that Trina Shoemaker had engineered it, I passionate about. I’m excited about the records that

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thought, “Wow. You can do this for a living?” I was
blown away because I didn’t realize that was
are on the schedule right now. I’m starting to work
again with Leela Gilday, who’s a dear friend of mine. www.tapeop.com
something that women did. That’s what put the spark We worked on her last album [North Star Calling] Bonus content online!!!
in me. Obviously, Sylvia Massy [Tape Op #63] is also together. I’ve also been working with this incredible
a legend, and she inspired me. I didn’t necessarily artist named Aysanabee, on the album Watin. On the
Tape Op is

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have an example of a woman engineer until I met a studio front, I’m inspired by the analog side, and I’m
fellow artist, Annelise Noronha. She’s an incredible always looking to acquire some fun gear on that made possible

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artist, a total badass, and an incredible engineer. She front. I’ve been thinking about expanding my setup
was working on these mega-sessions every time the a bit, so I’m looking forward to seeing that grow over by our
superstars would be rolling through Toronto. On the the next couple of years. I have been entertaining advertisers.

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production front, one of my greatest inspirations – not necessarily getting a full console, but to get Please support them and tell them
who became a mentor to me – was an artist named something to record through, getting some sort of you saw their ad in Tape Op.
Lisa Dal Bello, who goes by the artist name Dalbello. sidecar setup happening here. Mainly for tracking

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18/Tape Op#155/H. Kourkoutis/(Fin.)

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Please Support Our Advertisers/Tape Op#155/19

 For years I had seen the name I don’t know anything about your origins! an internship, and finally I called at the right time, and
I was born in Memphis, but my younger years were in Miami. one of the owners, Barney Jones, answered the phone. He
Tony Hoffer on album credits. In
Then I moved to L.A. for junior high and high school. My said, “We don’t have any openings, but come down. I can
addition to producing Belle & show you the studio.” He showed it to me and said, “There
teenage years in Los Angeles was when the music started
Sebastian albums, he’s also mixed happening for me. I got into guitar when I was ten. While you go, that’s the studio.” That was it! A couple months
hits for M83, co-produced Beck’s I was in high school, I was in various bands. I always later I kept hammering him, and he finally said, “All right,
Midnite Vultures, mixed Metric enjoyed the studio side when we had the opportunity to we’ll give you an internship. It’s unpaid. You’ll be getting
[Tape Op #152] albums, plus he’s go in and make some recordings. That was my favorite burritos, filing, and handing faxes to people.” I was like,
part. I was inspired by Wire [Tape Op #88] and the “Great, I’ll do it!”
worked with Depeche Mode, Air,
Cocteau Twins [#50]. I play a bunch of instruments, but Did you pick that studio in particular for a
Ziggy Marley, The Fratellis, The reason?
guitar’s my main instrument. You can probably imagine
Kooks, and so many others. But I the effects pedals and racks that I had for my guitar back Before I moved, I had heard about it. It seemed like a cool,
knew very little about where he then! [laughter] cutting-edge studio. They were also doing a lot with tech
came from or how he operated. Right. Looking for the sound. at the time that was interesting to me, like video games,
We chatted right after Tony had Exactly. Trying to emulate all that. Going into the studio was museum kiosks, as well as commercials. They rented
always cool, because we had a little more space to several rooms in Hyde Street Studios. I was trying to
relocated to Austin, Texas,
experiment with and get interesting sounds. I always figure out what to do at that time. I wanted to do music,

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and was building his new studio, enjoyed that. I moved up to San Francisco when I was but I didn’t know how… “How do I make a living, pay
and I got to find out quite about 24, and I got an internship at a studio called rent, and all that, with music?” I thought maybe I could
a bit about his career. Earwax Productions. I hassled those guys for months for do music for video games. They were doing museum

Tony Hoffer

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Stirring it Up
by Larry Crane

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photo by John Dougherty

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20/Tape Op#155/T.Hoffer/(continued on page 22)

 installations and interesting projects. With the testing it, in a way. Then I would go home and work famous, bigger studio. I was on a [Neve] VR, and they
internship, I was able to go in and use the rooms if on my own music, applying what I had been learning had an SSL in another room. The other studio where
no one was in. That was helpful and educational for at the studio. A few years into that, my friend, Justin we did production was a bit of a smaller studio, but
me. It was helpful to see what it sounds like if you Meldal-Johnsen [Tape Op #93], who I was in a band they had a lot of cool instruments and outboard gear.
blow up the input of an [Eventide] H3000. It’s cool! with in L.A. for many years, was playing bass with Did you learn to adapt pretty quickly in
Run drums through that. I got to try these Beck. He had played Beck some music that I was order to jump into these different
experiments. Some ended up being things that I still working on. It was some mangled bossa nova thing I places and environments?
use to this day. Eventually, I became a staff engineer had done with my five samplers [Roland S-550, E-mu Yeah. No joke; that’s reading Tape Op, Sound On Sound,
at Earwax, working on a lot of cool projects, and e6400, E-mu e4XT, Kurzweil K2000, and E-mu SP and all these magazines. I was trying to figure out,
learning how to work fast. They were getting into 1200]. It was insanity what I had going on. Beck was “How do you do this without super high-end
things like [Digidesign] Sound Tools, Sound Designer, like, “Tell Tony to come down and let’s work on some equipment? And what in the hell is a compressor?”
Pro Tools, and SampleCell; all the newer stuff at the tunes.” I jumped in my car with a crate of records and All of that helped me. There was no YouTube. There
time. I was up on all of that right as it was coming came down to try some things out with Beck in the were no tutorials.
out. It was good timing for me. studio. We ended up working for a day on a song. We It was so different then.
A lot of it was being developed just south built up a track around a sample I found off a Boney Yeah. I knew the sounds I was trying to get. You and I
of San Francisco. M. record, “Nightflight to Venus” that I brought. We were talking about some of these records earlier.
Exactly. These guys had connections with Digidesign (or, did a little thing with that that was super cool. He That’s what excited all of us when we were in the

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later, Avid), and with some of the early plug-in said, “Hey man, can you come back tomorrow? I need room, getting some “broken” Wire or Bauhaus guitar
manufacturers. This was all new territory. Because it to work on these lyrics, and we’ll record vocals sound. It doesn’t matter whether I’m boosting 2.5
was a cutting-edge studio, these companies were tomorrow afternoon.” I came back the next day, and kHz or 1.5 kHz. Does it feel right? Because of all that,
giving the software to the studio to try it out. Beta we cut the vocals in probably an hour with a [Shure] I’ve been a “big brush stroke” person in terms of
SM58 and Beck on the couch. I was like, “That was production and mixing. I’ve never been into real
quick. Should we start another song?” We got tweaky, surgical EQ’ing. I didn’t spend much time on

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something else going, and he said, “Hey, can you SSL consoles. I came up on Neves and APIs, which
come back tomorrow? I need to finish the lyrics and have more of a wider EQ shape. I’m used to treble,

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we’ll cut the vocal.” It basically kept going like that, mid, and bass.
and then it turned into a year-long project. Like a home stereo!
These Beck sessions were at his home? Exactly! I love home stereo EQ. Anyway, doing that Air

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Yeah. It turned into this whole thing. That’s how my record put me out near the UK. I took some meetings
involvement with [Beck’s] Midnite Vultures came in the UK, and that led to a bunch of UK records that
about. I was having to return so much that I ended then did quite well. Then that led to a lot of UK
up moving back to L.A. When that record came out, it sessions, more French music, and U.S. work.
got a lot of attention. It got nominated for two
l You moved down to L.A. to work with
Grammys, and a lot of people seemed to like it. That Beck, but you didn’t move to London.
helped me get the gig with that French band, Air We contemplated it. I was spending so much time there
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[#39], to work on 10 000 Hz Legend. That was through at one point. I do love London. I assume you’re
the drummer of that band who was a friend of mine, probably an Anglophile?
Brian Reitzell [#107], who was their drummer at the Oh, yeah.
time. He was working on a project that I had done It feels like something is happening there. It’s also such
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some recording on. He loved how I got the drums to a small country. Things can happen really fast there
sound. They’re super dry. I’m always trying to recreate with music. I’ve seen it happen where we finish a
the sound of a DrumTraks [Sequential Circuits] drum song, it’s mastered the next day, it comes out in two
machine. That kick and snare sound; that’s all I’m or three weeks, and then it’s on the radio. I really
trying to do with acoustic drums. love the immediacy of that.
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The dryness. There’s such a music media presence.

Yeah, bone dry. We did that, and Brian’s like, “Oh my Yeah. People love music there, so they want to know
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god, these are amazing.” He told the Air guys about what’s going on. It’s cool in that regard. The first
that, and they heard the drums and loved it. They’re time I went was in 1988, and I have a photo of me
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like, “Why don’t you come out to Paris and help us in Victoria [Underground] Station. I’d just heard My
finish our album and then mix it?” I went out there Bloody Valentine [Tape Op #26] for the first time at
and did a couple weeks of production and then mixed an HMV [record store] in the train station, which was
it. It was crazy, because this was all pretty new to me. mind-blowing. I felt like I might see someone from
I had only really worked on my own music and Beck’s the Cocteau Twins walk by. I really felt this. Of course,
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songs prior to that. Somehow, I didn’t fuck the whole it’s nonsense!
thing up. [laughter] How did your career develop after that?
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Were Air in that studio they used to have It’s so international, with groups
that was a big open space? I went to like Phoenix and the UK bands.
visit them right after this record. There were certain milestones along the way, but one
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Oh right. So, they tracked it (maybe) in the studio that thing led to another. If you start having some success
you’re talking about, which I believe was a studio they in the UK, then labels will reach out. “Do you want
were renting at the time. The studio that we did the to work with this artist?” I was fortunate with a lot
production at was Studio Apollo in Paris. Then the of those earlier records. I felt it was paramount to
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studio where I mixed it, was Studio Plus XXX. It was a find artists that have a true sonic identity, as well as
T. Hoffer/(continued on page 22)/Tape Op#155/21
 Shure VP88 mid-side stereo mic On Blondie’s Pollinator you worked on a when we closed on the house there was a knock on
That mic is so good. It’s such a cool, interesting mic. handful of songs as “additional the door and there were three kids from the
I used to use it to record drums. I would walk around production.” What does that mean? neighborhood who knew there was a kid moving in.
the drum kit, stand right in front of it, the drummer John Congleton [Tape Op #81] produced that, which was Kids around my daughter’s age, and they’re running
would be playing, and I’d think, “It sounds pretty good great, but the label brought me in to “sort out” four around. We’re trying it out for a year. We have a house
right here in front of the kick drum. I’ll put it right or five songs. Play some other parts and do whatever in L.A. still that we’re renting out so we can go back
here!” In front of the kick, but maybe five feet in the I needed to do to get them sounding more how the if we want. I also kept my studio in L.A. My Austin
air pointing at the kit, a few feet away from it, with artist wanted. I went quite a bit further with their studio is a near exact duplicate of my awesome L.A.
two other mics for kick and snare. To this day, if we’re initial ideas, and everyone was happy. The artist was studio, except with a window! So far, it’s cool.
in the studio I might grab a stereo pair of something happy, and it was cool speaking with them. I don’t There’s a lot of good music going on
else, but it’s the same concept. It doesn’t necessarily do that kind of thing a lot, but if Blondie calls, then in Austin. There have always been
have to be mid-side, but that concept of having I’ll do it! They’d written a lot of the songs with some good studios, musicians, and
something stereo in the front, where the drums sound several contemporary artists I love, like Charli XCX, engineers.
good. Nowadays I’ll put a lot of mics around the kit, Dev Hynes, Johnny Marr, and [Nick Valensi from] The Yeah. I’m looking forward to checking it out. There could
but for each song I’ll probably only use five or six. Strokes. It was a cool project. be some cool Austin artists I might work with, or I
Kick, snare, toms, and then there will be that kit mic What is Tiger Tone Records? might not work with any. Who knows? It depends on
for sure. But most of the time I’m building the drum I started a label two years ago called Tiger Tone Records. what’s going on, and who’s doing what.
balance around the VP88 or whatever I use. I partnered with a distributor called PIAS, who are Does it not really matter where you live

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huge globally. They were trying to expand in the U.S. right now?
something interesting vocally. They don’t have to be and set up a new team here. The person who was It doesn’t matter. Doing so much UK, French,
a good singer, but something interesting about the setting up the team reached out to me, “Do you want Canadian, and Australian records over the years, by
voice. Something identifiable. Obviously, artists with to do a label?” They have the Co-Op division, and it nature I’ve been a little remote, sending files back
good songs. Thankfully, the artists who were coming would be a label that would be part of that. The other and forth. I do need a room that sounds good.

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to me had a lot of those qualities. I would choose labels in that are Mute, DFA, Bella Union, Heavenly, That’s the key thing. George Augspurger designed
the ones that ticked all those boxes, and people and Transgressive. I said, “Yeah, that could be cool.” this room; he’s absolutely brilliant. He did my L.A.

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liked those records. I’ve got two artists, DEVORA and VHS Collection. With studio, which I still have.
You seem to have taken different roles the help of the U.S. PIAS team and the PIAS teams How big of a space is it?
on projects. More co-writing and globally in different countries, we’re releasing music It’s really for mixing, overdubbing, and light tracking. I
collaborating on some, and then

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and trying to break these artists. could probably record a band, but everyone would be
other times wrapping up with mixing. Is this a way to make sure that music you crammed in. It’s probably best suited for overdubs; a
A lot of it depends on the needs and wants of what the
are digging gets out there? place to have the time to experiment. If I need more
artist or the label has. If I’m starting a project from Yeah, to put music out that I like and felt that other space, then I’d use a proper commercial studio here.
scratch, I’m going to have a pretty big role. That’s people would like. I’ve worked with a lot of A&R I still travel a lot and use studios where there are
going to take some time to figure out the songs and l
people over the years; a lot of really good ones, and more microphones, space, and flexibility for having a
how we’re going to sonically dress things up. What’s some maybe not quite so much. [laughter] I’ve variety of instruments set up and scattered around.
the palette going to be? Then there are other times
ai
learned what works and what doesn’t work, and it’s Then I come back here and tweak.
where someone’s coming to me, especially more so in good to know that. I felt it would be interesting to With the mixing you’re doing out of
the past five or seven years, where a lot of artists are try to apply what I’ve learned over the years and see your studios, is that completely in
doing pretty cool work at home on laptops. I’ll tell if I can get something happening with some of these the box at this point?
gm

them, “We don’t need to recreate all this. Why don’t artists. It’s been cool. It’s fun learning about the Yeah, I’m 98 percent in the box now. For years, I was on
I come in and help you finish some of these songs?” other side of the game. desks, mainly API. If I was outside of the U.S., where
Maybe some of them are missing sections, or they It’s interesting to learn what happens there is much less API to be found, I’d be on Neve
need help with lyrics. I’ll help finish some of the after we finish the records on our VRs or ‘70s Neves. I switched over to in the box in
writing, and then we’ll dial in the production. Perhaps end. Are you still in L.A.? 2013. I felt the plug-ins were sounding a bit better
)

if we subtract parts from super dense sections, then We moved to Austin [Texas] six weeks ago. We were at that point. Before, when I tried in the box, some
maybe it will sound a lot more interesting and cool. away in France for two and a half of those weeks. I’m plug-ins were just too tweaky sounding for me.
t

There are other projects where I had no hand in the in the process of building the studio that I’m in now, Yeah, I still open some plug-ins and
production, and I’m just coming in to mix. Everything which is almost done. We’re almost there. there are too many controls. I can’t
(a

is done. When I first started doing this, there was no Is it just a place for your personal use? sort this out!
delineation between production, mixing, and Yeah, and the artists I work with. Not commercial. Yeah. It’s too complicated and too surgical. Again, I
engineering. We were just working on music, and we What prompted the move? like the treble knob and the bass knob and the mid.
had to get it done. I usually mix what I produce, but We were getting a little tired of L.A. L.A.’s a great place,Over the years, I’ve been getting more and more all
I don’t always produce what I mix. When I mix, I am but the past few years it’s gotten pretty bad. There the way in the box. Now, I have a bunch of outboard
n

mixing a little bit with the producer’s hat on at are high crime rates, homelessness is out of hand, effects – like weird reverbs, delays, lots of pedals,
times, especially when I’m asked to go deep and and I don’t know if there are going to be any and gear that can’t be emulated with plug-ins – so
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reinvent the current presentation. Sometimes when solutions any time soon. I have a nine and a half year I’ll still go out of the computer. I’ll run sounds
I’m mixing, people will tell me, “Feel free to tweak old daughter, and we were wanting her to have a bit through those pedals and then back into the
things. Remove everything if you’re hearing more of a “free-range childhood,” like my wife and I computer. I do that when I’m mixing or producing.
something.” I may fly some drums around; maybe
kn

had when we were growing up. We’d be hopping I might take what we recorded and go further with
there’s a certain rhythm that’s better on one section. around from house to house on our bikes, but where it here, with additional processing.
I might add some instruments if they’re open to we were in L.A., you would never let your kid run It’s still so interesting how different
that. It’s always fun to do that. But yeah, it just around like that. We picked Austin and got a place it can be, especially distortion-
ma

depends on what’s needed. here that’s in an awesome neighborhood. The day type effects.
22/Tape Op#155/T.Hoffer/(continued on page 24)
ma
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aa
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t)
gm
ai
l
(d
ot
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 Yeah. There are some compressor pedals that I love, because there is no plug-in that’s
grabby and extreme enough. The cables are routed here and ready to go. I’ve got
everything set up, so it’s pretty easy.
Is a big part of the move to in the box about recallability? It has
been for me, with remote mixing.
That’s become expected that you can make an adjustment and turn it around quickly. I
rented Sound Factory Studio B for seven years, and we had gotten the analog recall down
to about 45 minutes per song.
That’s pretty fast, honestly.
Yeah, it was super-fast, and things came back amazingly well. A big part of that was also
how I mixed. I worked a certain way where I assumed that mixes were going to be
recalled. “Let’s not make a big deal about it. Let’s assume they’ll be recalled so that if it
doesn’t get recalled, that’s great, and if it does, it’s not a big deal.” It’s also funny, but
when I had that assumption, I started having hardly any recalls!
I have the hardest time predicting whether I’m going to get ten
pages of revision notes or a sign off on my first mix pass.
Strangely enough, when I work with bigger artists they go,
“Great. It sounds good. We’re done.”

co
With people who have made many albums, it definitely helps. They know the process. But
it can go either way with amateur ones. It can be like what you’re saying, where they’re
either very particular or, “Sounds good to me!”
Do you get a range of mix work between established and
unknown artists?

)
Sure, yeah. If I like the music – those parameters that I said earlier – I might be interested.
Does a lot of work get filtered through your manager?

ot
Yeah. I’m with AAM [Advanced Alternative Media]. Some comes through them and some
directly via my website or on Instagram.
You were talking earlier about dry drum sounds. Everyone talks

(d
about the best mics for overheads, but then it turns out that
our drum mix is 90 percent kick and snare mics.
It has to be deader than dead! I’ll tell the assistant engineer, “We’re going for a dry, dead
drum sound. If you can grab whatever baffles, blankets, or whatever else is available,
let’s build a whole tent around it.” I’ll come in, and there will be a little something
around the drums. I’m like, “No, we’ve got to go deep. Let’s build a roof on this thing.”
l
It’s like making a dead room around the drums, and it sounds awesome in there! I can
ai
put some room mics on the other side and have complete separation of bone dry versus
roomy. On the chorus I can bump up the room, or not. Even if it’s not a real roomy
room, without the tent there will be too much room sound going into the snare and
kick mics to some degree.
gm

And the more we compress it, the more we hear the room sound.
Yeah. The key thing is knowing what sound you want. What record has the sound that you
want? Then you try to get something like that. Hearing what you want it to be in your
head before doing it, that should determine what you do.
You’ve worked with Metric a few times [Tape Op #152]. What was
)

your involvement on the new record, Formentera?

I mixed some songs on the album. I love those guys. I’m such a big fan. It’s always great
t

working with them. They’ve made a lot of albums over the years, and they definitely have
a clear vision of what they want to do. It’s great working with them. Before they send
(a

me the files, we always have a conversation. Jimmy [Shaw] always says, “Here’re the
tracks, and this is how far we’ve taken it. Do your thing. I’ll tell you if we don’t like it.
We want you to do your thing and push it.” I appreciate that. I’ll try to come up with
interesting vocal treatments for Emily [Haines]. It’s always just amplifying all the cool
elements they have in there, as well as the production they’ve spent a lot of time on.
n

It’s finding ways to amplify the best of the best.

Are they giving you a rough mix to start from?
aa

There would be a rough mix of where they got it, so I can hear where the rocket is pointing.
More on the electronic side or a little more on the organic side of things? I’ll often start
with their concept and then start expanding on it or, if need be, help create a new
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concept for the song.

In our interview with Jimmy, he does talk about how he needs to
be produced in some way. It looks like a healthy way to work.
Yeah. Having an objective ear, especially near the end, is probably helpful.
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24/Tape Op#155/T.Hoffer/(Fin.)
With the Belle & Sebastian albums you did, how did those
sessions start?
I was in London finishing an album when their manager reached out to my manager
to set up a meeting. I flew out to Glasgow, [Scotland], to meet them at their studio,
and they played me a bunch of their new songs. I was already a big fan of their
previous records, and I thought the new songs were amazing. I met them, they all
seemed great, and there was a lot of them! We hit it off. I flew back out to do some
pre-production with them on what was going to become The Life Pursuit. In their
rehearsal room there was so much energy and enthusiasm when they all played the
new songs together. I knew I wanted to capture, and hopefully end up with, an
album that sounded as vibrant and lively as that. We spent a lot of time in pre-
production, going through the structures, tempos, and song keys. We worked out a
lot of parts in rehearsal, so everyone had a good idea of what they were going to
do but didn’t go too far. I still wanted there to be spontaneity when we got to the
studio to record. We basically cut the majority of the album live. Several songs have
live vocals as well. We tracked it at Sound Factory Studio B on a ‘70s API [console],
which had been Tchad Blake’s [Tape Op #16, #133] old room (that I took over from

co
Tchad when he moved to the UK.) I then mixed it at Sunset Sound Studio 1 on their
custom API. A lot of the playing was somewhat dynamic, so I put a Chandler TG1
on the stereo bus, and it brought out the dynamics and excitement even more. That
piece of gear worked great on those mixes. Write about Love was pretty much done
in a similar way. Pre-production in Glasgow, record at Sound Factory Studio B, but
this time I mixed it in Studio B as well. The track with Norah Jones [“Little Lou,

)
Ugly Jack, Prophet John”] was done live in two takes, with everyone playing and

ot
singing. It probably could have been done in one take, but we were still obsessing
over something trivial, like the hi-hat!
I listened to the Ziggy Marley track you did. How did that
come around?

(d
I’ve been trying to work with Ziggy for several years now. His manager is an old friend
of mine, and we would talk about doing something. I was a big fan of his album
Conscious Party that was produced by Tina Weymouth and Chris Frantz from Talking
Heads. We never could figure out the timing for a longer project. Something came
up where it was just one song. I talked with Ziggy and he was like, “Yeah, let’s do l
it, man!” He wanted to do a specific thing. A lot of people he’s worked with over
the past several years, they go very reggae with his music. But he wanted to do
ai
something that was maybe a little more alternative-leaning, or not straight up-the-
middle reggae, but he still wanted it to be reggae. I said, “I understand what you’re
saying. Let me push things a little bit.” I’m a big fan of dub music, like King Tubby
and Scientist [Tape Op #136]. For years, I’ve been bringing that into what I do. If
gm

I’m working with an artist like The Kooks or M83, I’m sneaking in what I love most
about dub mixing and producing from those records that I love. Particularly with
effects, and drum, and vocal treatments. I’m always sneaking that into the
electronic and rock records that I work on.
I wish I got more chances to do dub mixes and work on
)

reggae music.
It’s super fun. There are so many great references. The sounds and the processing are
t

amazing. It seems like with a lot of current reggae that I hear now, a lot of it is
(a

super straight-up. Sonically, it’s really good; but it’s not very adventurous like it was
back in the ‘70s and ‘80s.
Are there any new projects coming up that you’re excited about?
There’s a new M83 album [Fantasy] out soon. We just finished that.
You mixed their hit, “Midnight City,” right?
Yeah. That song and album was mixed on a console. I was a huge fan of Anthony
n

[Gonzalez]’s music before we worked together. I’m excited for people to hear the
new one. It’s one of those records that we were talking about earlier, where it’s so
aa

different and cool. r

<www.tonyhoffer.com> <www.tigertonerecords.la>
kn

Tape Op is made possible

by our advertisers.
Please support them and tell them
ma

you saw their ad in Tape Op.

Please Support Our Advertisers/Tape Op#155/25
 Tunde Adebimpe
Sketching the Panorama
by Ian Brennan

co
)
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(d
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Tunde Adebimpe is the co-lead singer

and co-founder of the critically
acclaimed TV On The Radio, a group
who helped reshape rock music as
)

well as the Williamsburg

neighborhood of Brooklyn, New York,
t

in 2001. In 2008, TV On The Radio’s

(a

Dear Science, was named Album of

the Year by many music magazines.
He’s collaborated with artists such as
Massive Attack, David Bowie,
Lee “Scratch” Perry [Tape Op #136],
Run The Jewels, Amadou & Mariam,
n

Mike Patton [#53], and Trent Reznor.

aa
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26/Tape Op#155/T.Adebimpe/(continued on page 28)

With TV On The Radio, you were in a Yeah, exactly. Eric’s Trip and a lot of K Records artists. For energetic reasons?
band where the producer, Dave Sitek, You started as an illustrator and ended- Yes, for energy. If I’m sketching something out, I’ll
was one of the members of the band. up sonically building montages. I be sitting. And I do sometimes have a mic sitting
How did that effect your approach to wonder how the visual played into on a little desk. But if I’m doing something that’s
recording? that approach of recording? more final, I want to free up my arms and put my
TV On The Radio started pretty shortly after I met Dave. I feel it’s always been soundtrack-y sci-fi. That’s the way body into it.
We met because I was living in Brooklyn in an old that I’ve always seen it. When we started doing it, we You are expressive with your arms when
cheesecake factory that – after having been recorded our EP Young Liars in 2002. This is after 9/11, you sing live.
abandoned for 75 years – was turned into artist lofts. after Y2K, and all of that shit. It was really fucking In a more formal studio, the Neumann U 47 is
It was 2,600 square feet – bare, raw space, and I was disturbing; especially that winter and into the next year. something that seems to work pretty well for me. And
among the first residents there. It didn’t have a Listening to those songs on Young Liars now, it’s a vast, I also like the [Shure] SM7. But what I use the most
bathroom and barely had lights. There was plywood on dystopian, science fiction soundtrack to me. It’s like the is the Beta 58A.
the windows. I and a few other artist friends moved in process of laying out a frame for an expansive outer Do you have a piece of studio equipment
there; ten of us moved in and made these rooms, and space scene in a science fiction movie. You have the first that you like to use?
the rent was a $100 a month. It was like a shantytown; sketch on a notepad, which is a demo. You take that I’m sitting at my desk right now, so I can tell you
it had rotating roommates and one of the people who sketch in and start layering washes of color on it, exactly: a Line 6 delay pedal – the DL4. It’s a simple
came in – about two years after I moved there – was making the stars shine a little more; but I’m also adding guitar pedal. There I can do loops, and I can lay out
layers onto this to turn it into an engaging panorama.

co
Dave. He was a musician and had a recorded a few long, long melodies and chord progressions, a
bands. Dave and I started hanging out because one It’s all come from that single idea, but the more you cappella, to make sketches on. I will go through that
day I walked past this room, and inside Dave’s room layer on it – just like with painting – it becomes more into the [Universal Audio] Volt interface, and I’m
was a bunch of acrylic paint tubes, packs and packs of and more expansive and more immersive. using Ableton [Live] to record.
cigarettes, a 4-track that had a bunch of cassette I visited Chalice Recording in Hollywood That’s how you write a lot of the songs?
tapes stacked all around it, and a few keyboards, a with Kyp Malone [TV On The Radio co- Yes, I’ll do them a cappella first. I’ll beatbox something,

)
guitar, and a sampler. The reason I stopped and stared singer, guitarist, and songwriter] play non-verbal parts out with my voice, and then put
for a bit was because, “Oh, that looks like my room.” when Dear Science was being mixed. melodies on top of it.

ot
[laughter] I also had the 4-track Tascam, a bunch of Dave was showing how many of the What instruments did you play as a kid?
instruments – noisemakers, samplers, and some toy songs had over a hundred tracks. I played drums for a while, and a little bit of piano,
instruments – and I was also surrounded by paints. We Yeah. A little excessive! [laughs] One thing you will but both of those were quickly annihilated. By the

(d
started hanging out, making art together, and trading notice about those records is the track count. There’s time I was 11 there was nothing. It was a net
4-track tapes that we had. That’s where our been an arc. The first EP was actually not a bunch of negative experience. [laughs] The amount of
camaraderie started, as far as music making goes. The tracks. On the first album [Desperate Youth, Blood experience I learned – in my drum lessons and my
first thing that we ever put out was a compilation of Thirsty Babes] there are more tracks; ones that don’t piano lessons – resulted in me having less
songs from those 4-tracks called OK Calculator, a weird, really need to be there. On the third record [Dear experience than I did before I even started.
silly homage to Radiohead’s OK Computer. It was this
compilation of the 4-track tapes that we traded before
l
Science] there are plenty of tracks. They all fit where
they should be. It sounds good, strong, and different.
[laughter] When confronted with it, I realized, “I
don’t get this at all. I’ll leave this to my very musical
ai
there was even an idea of becoming a “band” or It sounds like us. On the next record all of that is family instead.” My brother and dad played piano,
whatever. David is more a musician – more of an refined, but we were starting to subtract instead, not and my sister played piano and sang opera.
instrumentalist – than I am. We went from trading putting as many tracks on. Writing stronger songs and There was a piano in the house?
tapes to developing songs, where Dave would take a not having to dress them up. That’s what the arc has There was a synthesizer that was audible; we weren’t
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song that I had written – with whatever rudimentary been. If you listen to our first EP and our last album playing on headphones.
keyboard on it – and then he would flesh it out. That’s [Seeds], they have more in common, sonically, than You could hear them playing around
how it would go; I would record on a 4-track and leave those in-between, in terms of a clarity of the house?
it to my instrumentalist friends to bring it around into instrumentation serving a song. In between we got to Oh, yeah. For better or for worse, everyone could hear
being a song that other people would want to listen a point where sometimes the ability to add more tracks you! My brother would compose his own songs. We
)

to, as opposed to just me. [laughter] could take away from other stuff. I don’t know. were about 16 or 17, and he was writing for a band.
When you were recording on Tascam Sometimes the simpler something can be, you can still He had a bunch of original songs, and he would play
t

4-tracks they were already occupy a nice vast territory, but not have to fill it up. them on the piano. You don’t want to hear someone
“vintage.” Most people had moved Negative space and restraint are highly rehearsing their original songs for hours and hours on
(a

onto [Alesis] ADATs and other undervalued. end. [laughs] “Hey! I’m over here trying to draw.”
developing digital formats. You don’t have to layer so much on top in order to make You’ve also participated in a lot of
It’s funny, because I started recording on Tascam 4- it present. tribute albums for artists like Daniel
tracks as a result of being into the whole system of At what point does something stop Johnston [The Late Great Daniel
indie recording, where people were tracking in their getting better and possibly becomes Johnston: Discovered Covered] and
n

bedrooms. I came to that in 1994 and 1995, in the worse? Sleater-Kinney [Dig Me In]. What is
punk tradition of, “Anyone can do this. You don’t have It’s kind of like you wrap it in plastic. your approach to cover songs versus
aa

to know an instrument. You can do whatever.” So, I That is what a lot of pop music sounds original material?
did a bunch of a cappella or beatboxing. I was not a like. I’m always so glad to do a cover, because it means I
technical person back then at all. I’m barely a This thing in so much plastic. It is shiny, though! don’t have to write the lyrics! [laughs] For me, the
kn

technical person now! [laughs] But something that What’s a favorite vocal microphone? lyrics are the backbone of the entire thing. I know a
recorded individual tracks on a cassette tape, that was I’m very meat and potatoes about it. It’s Shure Beta 58A. lot of people don’t feel that way, which is always
something that worked for my brain. Do you like to hold it when you track? strange to me. If I’m going to cover a song, it’s usually
You were influenced by artists like I will usually have it on a stand, as I like to stand up that I like the lyrics and it’s one of my favorite songs.
ma

Sebadoh and early Liz Phair? when I’m singing. Still, that favorite song might not be a song that I’ve
T. Adebimpe/(continued on page 28)/Tape Op#155/27
 Recording in Tassili n’Ajjer Park You recently got back from your first visit what “works” is not that great. But they know that it
In 2010 Tunde and Kyp joined Ian Brennan in to Nigeria in 17 years. How had things works, so they do it regardless. It’s like they
southeast Algeria to record with Tinariwen in the Sahara changed from what you remembered? manufacture products that build off of the last thing
for the Grammy-winning album Tassili. I remember you telling me a story they manufactured. There’s no room for anything truly
It was amazing. Recording in a formal studio you about this pre-teen drummer in your innovative to break through.
show up whenever, start tracking, have lunch, and keep Dad’s village who was stunning. Only minor deviations.
tracking. If you stay long enough for dinner, you have Yeah, this time it was a bunch of dudes in Santa outfits Yeah, never deviating too far. People [listeners] are
dinner, keep tracking, and then you stop, and then on Christmas Day, and they were playing almost New probably dying for radically new shit, but they don’t
come back the next day. You repeat that process on Orleans-style versions of Christmas carols – a march even know it. That’s the horrible thing is that we have
repeat until you have a record. With Tinariwen we took with bass drum and lots of horns. to funnel art through this thick block of cheese that is
a small plane that only goes once a week and arrived in When you were driving around, did you pop culture for someone to actually receive it.
the middle of the night. Algeria is huge, so to fly alone get a strong sense of what was on TV On The Radio’s sound was so strong and
from the capital to where we were in the southeast is a commercial radio? ahead of its time. I hear it now used as
3 1/2 hour flight. Then we got into the van and, as we Afrobeats. That’s it. I don’t know any of the singer’s almost an anonymous template that’s
drove away from the airport, we were off road and names. I don’t know if they’re micro genres within the filtered up to the mainstream. Do you
almost instantly in the desert. The drive was around 90- genre of Afrobeats, but I do know that’s all I heard. In hear those kinds of records?
minutes through the sand. We set up and recorded in a Western mainstream pop a few Afrobeats artists I would say more often than not, I don’t. People have
crossover now and show up on pop stations every once played music for me that they thought sounded like us,

co
tiny canyon. There wasn’t a working structure. People
would start wandering in. Lots of the time the band in a while. But in Lagos, we were hearing them steadily. and I can’t hear it. [laughter] The fact that I can’t hear
would be sitting around just playing guitars. Recording What was your experience moving from it makes me wonder what the sonic similarities are. For
felt like a small part of the day. -TA an indie to a major label? me, it’s harder to hear. Sometimes if I hear something
What always struck me about the experience was how A major label afforded us a chance to reach a larger that “sounds” like us, I think, “No, that sounds more
much music was being played all the time that had audience through advertising and distribution. interesting to me than us.” [laughter] And then I think,

)
nothing to do with recording. A lot of it was the friends, Everything else about it, in terms of art and marketing, “I guess I’m just going to steal it.” Steal it back!
cooks, and other people that were hanging around. One we could have done ourselves, and almost did for That’s a good analogy of how pop culture

ot
of the best songs was when Ibrahim [Ag Alhabib] snuck ourselves. We’re a band of visual people who have a lot generally works.
away to play secretly for a friend. It was an old Tuareg of ideas. We came up in DIY communities. We had all Dave once told me a story. He went to meet Brian Eno
lullaby his mother used to sing to him – and he of that covered, as far as videos, etc. One of the [Tape Op #85] in England, and there were a couple of

(d
absolutely refused to record that. It was played to be stipulations of us signing with the major label was that other producers there. Dave is a gigantic Brian Eno fan,
shared mouth to ear in that intimate moment only. Plus, no one was allowed to come to the studio. We would and at the end of the meeting, as Dave’s leaving, he
the generator there served a dual purpose – to power give them the record when we were done, and there says, “It’s so great to meet you. I just wanted you to
the gear, but also to keep away predators! -IB was no input allowed from anyone who was not in the know I’ve ripped you off so much, and I have to say,
listened to in a while. But I have a recollection of it, band. They pretty much left us alone for first couple of ‘Thank you and I’m sorry.’” Eno pointed towards the
door, and said, “Just put a little bit in the tip jar on
in my head, so the first thing that I do is I think about
the recollection. I won’t go back and listen to the song.
records.
write and
There
say
was
that
one
they
instance
weren’t
where
hearing
la
somebody
single on
did
the the way out. That’ll be fine.” [laughter]
ai
I’ll try to try to call it up in my head and sometimes record, and they were wondering if we could go back Hilarious!
hum that into my phone. Then, when I go back and into the studio and try to knock something out. At the People take the bits they like, and it turns out it’s not
listen to the song, I’ll realize I was entirely wrong time, I was also in the process of directing an album- really about you! r
about many things. After that, I’ll map something out length feature film for that record [Nine Types of Light], <tundeadebimpe.bandcamp.com>
gm

that has the same trajectory. I’ll trace the song. I’ll do because I had no faith that the record label would be
Ian Brennan is Grammy-winning music producer (Zomba Prison
something that sounds similar to it and cover it in that able to properly represent us. I wanted to make
Project, Tinariwen, The Good Ones [Rwanda], spoken word
way, using guitar plug-ins and drum machines. I’ll try something that no one else was making in 2011. I was
artist, Raymond Antrobus) who in the past decade has recorded
to not make a duplicate, but rather a map. Then I’ll try in the middle of that huge project right after having
in the field over forty records by international artists across five
to map out the cadence of the recollection that I had finished the album; I was essentially making ten videos
)

continents (Africa, Europe, North America, South America,

recorded in my phone, put that on top of this for the price of two.
reconstruction, and then move that around. Then I’ll do A film which was nominated for a Asia). He is the author of seven books and his most recent is,
t

Muse-$ick: a music manifesto in fifty-nine notes.

another version. I’ll refine that vocal line, usually in the Grammy.
<ianbrennan.com>
Right. The label wrote in, saying, “We’re not hearing a
(a

cadence of what I was remembering. Then I’ll do the

duplicate, and then I’ll completely get rid of the single.” I wrote back to them, saying, “We just spent a
duplicate and refill those blanks in with something year working on this record. If there was something
completely different. I’ll listen to the vocal by itself, that we thought we could do better, we would have
and then fill in the blanks with my own done it already.” I asked the guy who wrote that, “Can
instrumentation. Through my own beats and patterns you tell me exactly what it is you are looking for? Can
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I’ll find an entirely different song underneath this tell me how long you want the song to be? The BPMs?
What key do you want it to be in? If you can get this
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roadmap of the original.

A lot of people claim to experience information to me by 5:30 p.m. tomorrow night, I
synesthesia – to hear in colors. As promise I will go back into the studio in the next week,
someone who has worked visually, do you execute your plan, and that will be the single.” I don’t
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ever think that way in terms of sound? know if anyone had ever put it to them like that. This
I definitely do. The descriptions I’ve read of synesthesia guy, of course, doesn’t write back by 5:30 the next day
may be more intense than what I’ve experienced. There because he doesn’t know what he wants. That’s the
are definitely colors and moods that correspond to thing. He never, ever wrote back again. Big corporate
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music. But it’s more of a feeling. labels, they know what is working. They also know that
28/Tape Op#155/T.Adebimpe/(Fin.)
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Please Support Our Advertisers/Tape Op#155/29

 Amanda Shires
& Lawrence Rothman
“One More For Fun”
by Geoff Stanfield
photos by/courtesy of Lawrence Rothman

The pairing of Amanda Shires and producer Lawrence Rothman is an unlikely one.
On paper, Amanda’s Americana-leaning solo records (including her work with

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The Highwomen), and Lawrence’s art rock production style make almost no sense,
but that’s the beauty of it. The two partnered during the early pandemic on remote
writing collaborations, and later on full band sessions at Nashville’s famed RCA Studio B
and Amanda’s barn turned home studio. I caught up with Amanda and Lawrence to talk

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about their partnership and the process of making her new album, Take It Like a Man.

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30/Tape Op#155/A. Shires & L. Rothman/(continued on page 32)

 voice. A couple of the people who I reached out to
on my short list luckily responded and wanted to get
involved on singing on my album. Amanda was one
of the first people I reached out to, and one of the
first people to come on board. I sent her a song called
“Thrash the West.” She responded to it, went into the
studio, and sang on it.
A: This is where I come in to interject. I got “Thrash the
West” during COVID lockdown. I’m not really one for
checking my emails, and then, during lockdown, I
was struggling a bit. I’d already been intent on not
going into the studio ever again. That was my
choice, and I was happy with my decision. But,
during that time, I was thinking about how John
Prine never let anything cross his desk without
giving it a listen, because it disrespects folk’s art and
time. So, I listened to Lawrence’s song “Thrash the
West.” There are not many voices that inhabit that

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low range. On top of that there was the production;
the sound of the strings, and the string parts, really
got to me. The sonic landscape. Then the subject
matter. So, since they [Lawrence’s preferred pronoun]
asked me to sing on it, I said, “Okay, maybe I can do

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that.” When I went to the studio and heard it – not
just on my computer speaker – that’s when I was all

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in with the sounds that Lawrence was making.
Eventually I sent them a song, and they were like,
“We should get in the studio.” Then there was

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another song, and we decided to do a trial date. I
didn’t want to put all my hope and faith into making
a record, because I wasn’t ready to make one at that
time. Mentally, or in any way. We did a trial day and
that went well. From there, my joy was rekindled,
and my love for music was rediscovered. Creativity
l begat more creativity, and it didn’t stop.
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You were writing together remotely?
L: We loosely wrote a song via text before we met. It was
a wonderful thing to write with somebody that I
didn’t know well, but to get to a spot where we
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delved into a lyrical theme that was close to me. We

started with a story from my childhood. It went well.
Then we did this trial day, and on the trial day we
tracked “Fault Lines,” “Stupid Love,” and “Don’t Be
Alarmed” that all appear on the album. At the top of
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the day, I knew it was going to be a great session,

but I didn’t know a single person in the room. I
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didn’t know any of the musicians, the engineer, or

Amanda. I just had this feeling that it was going to
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be great. By the end of the day, we had those three

masterpiece, from top to bottom. Some of my favorite songs, and we were talking about, “When can I come
I was thinking about why people work
songs on it were the ones where Amanda was singing back? When can we make a record?” It was this
together, choose each other, and
the lead vocal, so that brought me down the rabbit instant, “Wow, we work great together.” We were
how these pairings make for good
hole of Amanda’s music. Record after record I was tossing the ball back and forth without knowing
music. I’d love to focus on the
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discovering a gem that I had never known about. I each other well, and creating sounds and ideas
relationship aspect of artist and
loved the focused intent on great lyric writing and without too much explanation. We were going on
producer, and how the two come
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poetic lyric writing. Lyrics are my number one thing, feeling. And to do it with somebody that I barely
together.
as far as what grabs my attention. The richness and knew, I knew that we were up to something that
Amanda Shires (A): That’s fun. I’m going to let Lawrence
the softness at the same time in her voice; I was very, could turn into something great. At the end of the
lead, because Lawrence came into my life via
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very drawn to it. When it came time for me to make day or two that we were recording the trial session,
Lawrence first.
my album [Good Morning, America], I wanted to have Amanda invited me to come back a few weeks later
Lawrence Rothman (L): I discovered Amanda before
a few features on it. My voice is so low, so I like to to make a full record. She had sent me some songs
Amanda discovered me. I first caught wind of her
team up with people who have higher-ranged voices. prior, but I asked her if I could get demos. She didn’t
beautiful music via The Highwomen. I had heard that
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Sometimes that can be a male voice or a woman’s like demos, at that point. She said, “I’m going to go
record [The Highwomen] and thought it was a
A. Shires & L. Rothman/(continued on page 32)/Tape Op#155/31
 back in these next two weeks and write the record.” professionally at the same time, in different fields, in of the sonic treatments; and that’s what the song is
She wrote upwards of 16 songs in those two weeks. ‘95 or ‘96. Anyway, to your question, no they weren’t about. In the case of what I gravitate towards, and
At the end of every day, I’d get a song or two demo. like you’d expect. Lawrence had some cool ideas and what Amanda does, it’s all about the lyrics and the
It was a great joy at the end of the night to have would send me tracks that I could see if I liked and voice. So, her music can exist very stripped and keep
these presents in my email. I’d open them, and every could write to. your full attention.
single one I was like, “Oh, my god, that’s the best I didn’t realize Lawrence was providing Where did you make this record?
one!” Then, the next day, it would be like, “You beat ideas for you to write to. L: RCA Studio B. Tracks that were recorded there are
that! That’s the best one.” I had this pile of great L: It was very quick, during that two-week period. It was everything from [Roy Orbison’s] “Pretty Woman,”
demos that she had. I went back in January 2021, between Christmas and New Year’s Eve of 2020 and classic Everly Brothers, to Dolly Parton’s “Jolene.” It
and we made the record at RCA [Studio] B. 2021. Amanda would demo up a demo of her own, was the house of Elvis Presley for over a decade. The
A: One of the crazy things is that it didn’t take much for and then I took the risk. I didn’t know how she was lights are still the way Elvis left them. It was
us, as far as finding the language for what we both going to react to it. We call them “randoms.” It’s a originally known as RCA.
want to hear. There’s something about our tastes; little folder of sonic tracked ideas. She picked out a Why there? There are so many studios in
our influences align all the time, for the most part. couple of those and wrote to those. Mostly I don’t Nashville.
Then things that I don’t know about, Lawrence like elaborate demos, and Amanda, at that time, The Country Music Hall of Fame [and Museum] runs it,
shows me, and things that Lawrence doesn’t know didn’t either. A lot of them were stripped piano, and they run tours through it for folks that come to
about, I bring. It didn’t take long. I don’t even know guitar, or whatever. Even just a voice memo, because Nashville looking for music history. During COVID
if it took any time for us to establish what we both it’s easier to imagine the song when you don’t go too there were no tours. Nobody was recording records in

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liked or didn’t like. I don’t know that we even talked wild on a demo with it. there at that time, so we had the run of the place.
about it that much. After the first trial date is when A: I think a couple were autoharp and voice, and a And, with the run of the place, we had a run of
we started sending sound “ideas,” if that’s a word for couple were ukulele and voice. A couple were my problems to deal with too, like power issues and all
what I’m talking about. voice recorded shoddily over an MP3 track of that that Lawrence can speak to. Even Jason [Isbell],
L: For me, and I believe you as well, it was a rare Lawrence’s. I would stop and start my computer. It’s with the guitar, he said, “I figured out why Chet

)
moment. You don’t get this too many times in your kind of comedic. [Atkins] liked the Gretsch so much; it’s because it’s
musical life where you’re able to find a musical L: They’re really cool though, the few that ended up the only one that’ll work in this room.”

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partner and you’re producing something where all of being a music bed that you top-lined over. She’d That’s funny.
your tastes align unforced. If Amanda shows me a start and stop them in spots and sing to her voice L: Yeah. We were originally supposed to make the record at
record or something, 9.5 out of 10 times I’m going to memo. It was all very raw. It kept a lot of space for Sound Emporium’s Studio A. They were booked during

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love it. I always had this reservation about producing, us to imagine what we could do to it all and not get the first two weeks of January 2021. We really had our
because of the fact that you have to take somebody’s that demo-itis thing. I am the master of demo-itis hearts set on recording during those two weeks. We did
vision and bring it to life. If you, as the producer, with my own work, so I was hoping to avoid that the trial date right before Christmas, and we were in
aren’t completely invested in it emotionally and pitfall with what we were doing. that mode of, “Let’s make a record.” Amanda threw out
creatively, like it’s your own band or your own music, End listeners don’t always get the access some names, and when she said RCA Studio B, that was
I don’t feel you can really deliver the ultimate vision and privilege to see what producers l a dream come true. I didn’t even know you could record
of what that artist has in mind. I never wanted to do. Sometimes it would be interesting there. You kind of really can’t, because it’s an operating
for people to hear that. This record is
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throw myself in those positions, because I’d have to museum. Full records haven’t been made there since
be very emotionally invested with the creativity and cinematic in so many ways, which the days of Elvis. Amanda had access to getting us in
be aligned with it. With Amanda, I found that perfect speaks to your production, Lawrence. there, but since it isn’t really a working studio, there
combination for myself. A: We have some of them. A lot of them I would do on wasn’t much equipment in there. There weren’t many
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A track like Lawrence’s “Benadryl and video. I’m not scared for some of those to come out, mics or mic pres.
Cereal” versus The Highwomen songs but they’re neat in that way, like you said, to be able A: We even brought my speakers from my house.
is so different. “Don’t Be Alarmed” to see how it was done. It’s also not the quality that L: Yes. Blackbird [Audio Rentals] kindly rented us a pile of
might be what I would have expected it became. I guess the person who would suffer in equipment, and we rebuilt the control room for the
from an Amanda Shires record, but the release of a video demo the most would be me, sessions. We brought in Amanda’s PMC speakers and
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that’s not all this record is. It’s got ‘70s being goofy. [laughter] rented [Neve] 1073s and Fairchilds. Lots of fun outboard
country pop orchestral arrangements, L: It’s interesting with “Fault Lines,” which is one of my gear. I brought a bunch of mics from my studio in
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rock, and there are parts that remind favorite songs on the record. Amanda sent it to me California. RCA BK-5s and some Royer [ribbon mics].
me of Danger Mouse and Broken Bells. on a ukulele, and I was in London at the time. In the A: We did have a piano and the celeste.
(a

But it hangs together because Ubers and such, I must have played that ukulele L: Yeah. The instruments in there include a celeste, the
lyrically it has themes that are demo until it broke. I played it so many times. So, piano that was used on all the Everly Brothers
pervasive throughout the record. when it came time to do the trial date with her, I was recordings, plus marimbas and vibraphones. There was
When you sent demos to Lawrence, was so in my head about loving the stripped version with a lot of rich instrumentation to choose from. And the
it more in line, musically, with what her voice and a ukulele that I had to go, “Okay, I’ve sound of the room… I don’t know if I’ve been in a
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people might have expected? listened to it too many times. I need to imagine this more elegant and well-balanced sounding tracking
A: I don’t like demos. I don’t like the idea of it. Especially as a full band production.” That, to me, was one of room in my entire life. I’ve recorded in a lot of rooms,
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back then, when I was in a vulnerable place with those moments where the reason I love this project and I love all these rooms, like Sunset Sound. But at
music. With Lawrence, I got to where I felt safe and and her songwriting so much is that we can have it RCA Studio B, we set up the whole band and everybody
comfortable and so I did my best with it. You can tell on a ukulele, on a piano, or on an acoustic guitar, tracked it live with very minimal gobos between
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in my other records I was trying to find sounds, even and the melody and the lyrics hold up. There are a Amanda’s vocal. Many songs were cut live. The bleed
going back to Down Fell the Doves when I worked lot of scenarios where we do demos and get was so musical that we were spoiled by that aspect of
with Andy LeMaster. My language and vocabulary for elaborate because they’re not driven by a strong it. All the headaches it took to set up the control room
that was not there. Lawrence and I have both been melody or a lyric. That’s okay, because sometimes and the rental gear was worth it in the end, because
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in the music business forever. We were both working music should be more about the production and all the sound of the room was unmatched in my opinion.
32/Tape Op#155/A. Shires & L. Rothman/(continued on page 34)
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 People always say, “How did they get the L: Absolutely. In our instance, the band that Amanda and
sound on those old records?” I put together for this record was one of those
L: It’s the room. The room resonates right, where the scenarios that changed my life. I had done things like
drums have the right low end and ambience around that for myself in the past, and when I’ve exited
them. Amanda stood in the spot where they have an those sessions, they always felt sort of flat and didn’t
X on the ground that was Elvis’s spot, and a lot of the have the thing I wanted. If you have the right
singers from that era, like Dolly, the Everlys, and Roy musicians in the room that is right for the project and
Orbison, there was a special sweet spot where they right for the artist and the song, the textures and the
sang. That spot, when we put a vocal mic up there, it feel of what goes down is unmatched to anything. We
had a resonance to it. All those little things help to can’t get that by sending a hard drive back and forth.
make mixing or a recording that much less stressful. There are records that are made like that that are
A: We got creative too, since the room’s only 40 by 25 incredibly amazing. Some of my favorite records are
feet or something. We located a couple of mattresses made like that. But in this day and age, I prefer the
and sleeping bags. I remember I was trying to force human interaction. We have been so isolated during
Jason to play the damn ukulele. [laughter] We put the COVID times that having that human interaction
two of those little twin mattresses and blankets up. in music now is a good change-up.
Then, at some point, he didn’t want anybody to know A: We were so happy in the room. I just remembered
he was playing it and he hid. I also remember this. We’d get a track, and you’d say, “We got it.” I’d

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Lawrence doing a hell of a lot of dancing, and I think say, “Can we just do one more for fun? We’re having
that contributed to a lot of the sound and joy of so much fun!” Every time, we’d get to do one more
music hidden inside the songs. for fun. There is that feeling – coming out of
L: Yeah, during this session was the first time – and isolation, getting masked up, getting COVID tests
I don’t ever want to go backwards on it – where I and all that – a feeling of like, “What if this is the

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sat in the tracking room, not the control room, for last time we ever get to play this song?” We didn’t
the entire session. Once we started doing that, know going through COVID that we’d come out.

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and all the sessions we’ve done since, I’ve L: You brought that up a lot. “Let me do this one more
remained in the tracking room. time, because I might not ever be able to play this
It sounds like this record was made song again.” It was funny, because we didn’t do very

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fairly quickly? many takes of songs. We would do maybe three or
L: Yeah. We tracked at RCA in ten days, and we did over four. When Amanda would suggest one more for fun,
20 songs during that time. There are the eleven a lot of those ended up being the take that we used.
that made the record, but we did around 25 songs The “one more for fun” takes would always have
or so in those ten days. It was quick. We were doing something a bit more fun about them.
two to three songs a day sometimes. Afterwards, I Well, I think we got it!
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took it back to Los Angeles to my studio. The goal A: One more for fun? Should we do one more interview
for fun? [laughter] r
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at RCA was to set everybody up live: Drums, bass,
piano, guitar, and Amanda singing with her fiddle. <amandashiresmusic.com> <www.lawrencerothman.com>
Like “Hawk For The Dove,” that fiddle solo was on
the floor with the band. We wanted to capture as
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much of it live as possible, with minimal editing www.tapeop.com

and minimal overdubs. We got as much as we could Bonus content online!!!
in the live snapshot. Then I took it back to Los
Angeles and I added some of the orchestration. The
meat and potatoes were all captured live. For me, Tape Op is made
possible by our
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that made it have an energy that was something

that I used to do when I started making music, but advertisers.
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I got lost in Pro Tools overdubland. To hear a record Please support them and tell them
where it’s human beings all playing together, with you saw their ad in Tape Op.
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no click tracks; it has a humanness to it that I hear

the great producers always talking about, but that
I have never really experienced myself. Now I don’t
know if I could ever go backwards.
We can post on Dropbox, and nobody
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even has to be in the same room these

days. It doesn’t mean that we can’t
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make a good record that way, but

there’s something special about
having people in the room together
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and having human interaction.

A: This might sound woo-woo or something, but I
believe it: If you get the right people in the room,
it’s recorded on those recordings somewhere; the
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vibe. Whether or not you can hear it.

34/Tape Op#155/A. Shires & L. Rothman/(Fin.)
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Please Support Our Advertisers/Tape Op#155/35

 Morton Subotnick
We Are Who We Invent

by Elliott Sharp

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A pioneer of modern electronic music, Morton Princeton Electronic Music Center. Listening to exciting. I continued to follow Morton’s music,
Subotnick initiated technical innovations and Subotnick’s Silver Apples... (around the same and our paths crossed many times over the
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created new sonic paradigms with his time that I also came upon the equally visionary years, whether in NYC or at European festivals.
groundbreaking 1987 album Silver Apples of the work of Iannis Xenakis and Harry Partch) In March 2022, Mort performed a monumental
Moon. Now in his 90th year, Subotnick is still as exploded everything for me in the best way. concert “As I Live and Breathe” with German
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energized and dynamic as ever. As a tech geek Silver Apples… made it clear that Subotnick video artist Lillevan (Lillevan Recherche) at the
and extreme music fan during my high school understood pulse and physicality in a way that Abrons Art Center in New York’s Lower East
years in the late 1960s, I liked the idea of the academics rarely did. His follow-up album, Side. Afterwards, I suggested an interview, which
electronic music more than the actuality of what I The Wild Bull, was a powerful anti-war statement he graciously agreed to.
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was hearing from such places as the Columbia- inspired by Pablo Picasso’s Guernica; brutal and
 I had been working at the San Francisco Tape Music student body once a week, and that was it. I ended
Center, and we were given a $200,000 grant from the up on Bleecker Street, since they owned the building.
Rockefeller Foundation. We didn’t apply for it; we were No teaching, but students who were artists could
handed it, but in order to do what we wanted to it had make appointments and come on in. We would talk,
to be under the auspices of what they called “fiscally and it was wonderful. I had one 2-track tape recorder
responsible people,” and we were not considered that! that recorded and played back, and one 2-track tape
We ended up in Mills College, and the grant was [deck] that only played back. No mixers or filters
coming in around 1965 or ‘66. In the meantime, I got except what was in the Buchla. Nothing else. It
invited to work with the Actor’s Workshop in San wasn’t musique concrète; it was all electronic. No
Francisco – Herb Blau and that group – on a cutting and pasting [tape].
production of [William Shakespeare’s] King Lear. I Had you been performing live with
created a score using tape manipulations, and that the Buchla before the release of
started me in electronics. That production created a Silver Apples…?
huge stir nationwide. I had been mostly a clarinetist No. My whole idea of the Buchla, to start with, was that
before that. As a result of that production, the main it was not a musical instrument, but a conglomerate
people of the company were invited to present the of modules that I could put together in some way to
piece at the Vivian Beaumont Theater in New York. create. I could play on to tape and then overdub.
Do you have a copy of that score? What I did was to make a whole pass with one patch.

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There’s an archive somewhere, but almost everyone’s I would make as many passes as I could, and then the
dead now so I don’t know where anything is. I made only cutting I did was to separate them with paper
all the sound effects and the trumpet calls. The big leader [tape] and label them. I would play back one
event was the storm scene, in which I made the from the tape recorder that only played back, then
sounds by manipulating the actor’s voice on tape. We have a new patch and play against it, which was

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worked for a year on it, recording and so forth. I didn’t recorded onto the second tape recorder. I had a stereo
have filters, so I had to make it faster or slower to mix at the end. I still use the same process when I

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allow the voice to come through. All of the sound was play in public, except that instead of recording it I
horrendously loud! Herb let me direct part of the have a huge number of samples and then I play
scene. The idea was that the storm was in the actor’s against the samples. I can control the samples, what

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brain, and so at one point I had him go down and part of the sample, and all of that. It’s the same
touch his knee to the ground, at which time the sound process that I used then, but it’s much more
turned off and then turned on again when he stood sophisticated now. That was only for Silver Apples…
up. It was just a sudden thing, but it was really and The Wild Bull.
powerful, at least at that time, anyway. I don’t think And on the album Touch?
it’s in the script, but at the end we added a part where No. Just those two records. Then Columbia Records gave
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he went down, laid down on the ground, and began me a contract, because both Silver Apples… and The
ai
breathing – I had the breath recorded with a repeat Wild Bull had been big successes. They gave me and
following the rhythm of his breathing. It was Terry Riley, contracts for seven years to do a record
dynamite, so we got invited to open the show in NYC every year. The first was to be for their quadraphonic
in 1966. Also at that time, I got an invitation from vinyl player that they had sold 10,000 of. Touch sold
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the beginnings of the Tisch School of the Arts at NYU 40,000 records that year because people didn’t have
to be an artist-in-residence. I met with Robert W. anything to play on their machines! They gave me, two
Corrigan, the dean. He ended up president at CalArts Ampex 4-track tape recorders. I had a multitrack. Back
[California Institute of the Arts] later. He flew me out to when I arrived in New York: I had been lecturing. I
to go over my contract. I had told him that I hated used to be good at lecturing, and I did a lot of them.
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to be in a university, telling him, “I didn’t know you I’d lecture about how my idea with the Buchla was that
were in the middle of New York. I don’t want to be on the new genre of music would be “composer as studio
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a campus. I don’t want to be anywhere near a artist.” It all seems so silly now, but, at that time, it
campus!” I needed a studio, plus he had to buy me a was a brand-new idea. My idea was that I would make
(a

Buchla [synthesizer], because the Buchla 100 was a machine for the studio artist, and it could also be for
just coming out. I made it hard for him! He took me live performance, but only in bits and pieces. You could
to dinner at a famous steakhouse in [Greenwich] put it together live, but you would have the fine
Village, and he brought the Ertegun brothers [Ahmet tuning of it in advance, and it would end up with the
and Nesuhi Ertegun, founders of Atlantic Records] machine playing at someone’s home. Because vinyl
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How was the recent tour in Europe? because he wanted to make sure I understood this records began to be long-playing and high fidelity, the
was not just academics as usual. I had a wonderful medium for the message of the studio artist was now
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It was hard, but I’m doing fine. I’m getting a little

confused about things, but luckily the music is not meal with them. Before we were done, with the the record player. I had been lecturing on the idea
giving me any problems, just all the details. I’d never Erteguns sitting there, and I said, “What about the that, since this was the case, record companies would
done this before at this age, and, in addition, the contract?” He said, “Yeah, here!” This paper, which realize that it was wrong to take a Beethoven string
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Covid tests made everything more complicated. was signed at the bottom by him, had the logo of quartet and record it, because it was meant to be
What are your recollections of your NYU, the date, and everything, but it was blank. He played and interpreted on the spot in front of an
early days in New York City? said, “I can’t remember everything. Just write it! You audience. They would realize this, people would realize
The first time in New York for me was the summer of have to give a lecture once a week, so please put that it, and everyone would stand up and say, “No more of
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1965, when they gave me a studio on Bleecker Street. in there.” So, I did! I gave a lecture to the whole this. We’re going to create a new way.”
M. Subotnick/(continued on page 38)/Tape Op#155/37
 How did Jac Holzman end up use of my voice live was to generate what you were The “Ghost” Score
commissioning you to compose for hearing. That is, what you were hearing of my voice About the “ghost” score: The ghost score consists of
Nonesuch Records? “live” was an imitation of what I had done on the two objects: a tape and a small package of electronics.
I was working all night back in those days, and people tape. There was a groove created by the envelope The electronics consist of basic devises:
sitting on my used sofa in the studio didn’t introduce follower controlling the electronic sounds that you 1. To locate the sound from left to right.
themselves. There was Viva, the actress from [Andy] were hearing. The samples were doing the same thing 2. To alter the frequency of the sound of the instrument
Warhol [films]. I happened to know who she was. They as my voice, and I could go back and forth between up and/or down 100 cycles.
all would be sitting there, talking among themselves, them. I had my voice in it, because my voice was 3. To control the shape of the amplification.
and listening to what I was doing. It was after recorded, but it was also controlling the speed of the The tape contains high frequency audio signals
midnight; the shows had all closed. In walks this guy modulation of my voice. That’s what I wanted. I’ve which are not amplified and therefore not heard by the
at 2 o’clock in the morning with starched Levis, and I been working on the opening segment now for our audience, but instead are sent directly to the electronics
knew he was a fake. He had to be a fake. He says that piece “As I Live and Breathe.” I’m including pre- and act as controls for the three modifying devises. The
he’s the president of Nonesuch Records, which existing software and can now move the sound to electronics have no sound of their own; they can only
sounded like a phony name to me. He talked about my different parts of the room on the spot. I’m not using act upon the sound of the instrument as it plays. Hence
lecture, and he’d decided that I was the one who could joysticks, I’m using a Korg XYZ [Pad Kontrol], because a “ghost” score.
do the first new electronic album. I said, “Leave my with it I can trigger something and then move my Note: The electronics in Subotnick’s “ghost” score
studio now before I throw you out!” I pushed him, finger at the same time – you can’t do that so easily pieces are currently being transferred to the MAX/MSP
and he went out. I got back home about five in the with a joystick. I can access any control at any time I format. Available upon rental.

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morning, I had to get the kids up to get them to want, in any way I want. It’s safer and more foolproof, <www.mortonsubotnick.com/program>
school, and I decided to listen to my [copy of Johann because when I get started with a thing on my finger, [Karlheinz] Stockhausen and his earliest electronic
Sebastian] Bach’s “Brandenburg Concerto.” It was on or anything physical, my whole body is activated by works, Electronic Studies, were all basically post-
Nonesuch Records! All day I tried to call, but there that and it’s only doing one thing. My metaphor for Webern technique. The only thing he did is that he did
was no phone number for Nonesuch because it was the live performance is the conductor. I’m the it with oscillators and made fresh tunings. But they’re

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part of some other company. I thought, “This is the conductor, the composer, the orchestra, and the all really dull.
way I’m starting my life. I throw everything away!” I orchestra is already playing. I don’t play the orchestra, There was no concept of rhythm or

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went back to the studio that night to work, and at 2 I conduct them, so I play at the highest level of who meter, either.
in the morning he shows up again. I opened my arms is going to play what, when, and how. I can do that That was because they got rid of the name! I don’t use
and he said, “Don’t hit me.” I said, “I won’t!” He said, and think about it and process it all, but if I’m doing meters either, but they got rid of the concept of a

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“Just listen,” and I listened. He began with, “We’ll this or this with a button, my brain is now located at meter and instead said “duration.” Time was duration,
offer $500. Well... we’ll offer you $1000.” I said, “I’ll the end of my finger, not on the whole score. It’s taken not beats. I don’t use meters because I don’t like
take it!” After that, I didn’t see him again until about me a while to figure that out, to get that metaphor dance music, but I do use pulse, and the beats from
three years later, when they were filming me for my straight. And it’s very clear now, so I prepare my that have more wildly disturbing meters than
own documentary in Los Angeles. He was living in Los scores and my work that way. Stravinsky. They’re not really disturbing; they’re just
Are you using pre-programmed
Angeles, so they arranged to film me with him. I sat
next to him, and it was wonderful. I said, “Do you sequences?
l regenerating new beats and accents all the time.
When I did Silver Apples…, I was after a new era with
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remember that night? He said, “I’ll never forget it. You I don’t use sequences at all. They’re all performed, then I a new “new music,” not a new “old music.” You can’t
almost pushed me down the stairs!” sample what was played in a loop form – a long loop, do a “new new music” with an instrument that already
What was important for you about like eight-minutes. Then, when I go to key X, it goes exists. You can say, “Play whatever you want,” on a
the Buchla? to that huge sample. I may only take this much of it, piano, but the tuning, its sound, and the way it
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The whole notion for the Buchla was that it was this or I may take it only from the starting point, or at a operates belongs to an old paradigm. You need a new
machine – as someone suggested at the time – that different point, and then go all the way around. I’m instrument for it. The only way to do that was to
was more like a musical analog computer than a documenting all of that because it’s taken me years to create something where we could make new
musical instrument. The big change was, after I did get to this point where the whole process is defined. instruments for every piece, and then make the music.
The Wild Bull, I realized that with all the ability to Soon, it’ll all be available; all of that. In fact, I have a When I got started with Silver Apples… it was “shit or
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move your fingers and do all that, I had left a very meeting with my publisher: We’re going to try to make get off the pot.” I had my commission from Nonesuch,
important control voltage out, and it was my voice. I it available on a free website that they’re putting and I had to do something. I never thought that I
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called Don [Buchla], I was just starting Touch, in 1968 together for me featuring more technologies, including could actually do it! I was trying to figure out what
or ‘69, and told him that I needed a control voltage how to make the Ghost Score pieces, and how they the fuck “new new music” was, and I realized I didn’t
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from my voice. He said, “Oh, I can do that.” It was less work. Some of that’s already there. [see sidebar] know. [laughter] Now I’ve got a part of it, which is
than two weeks after, and I had an envelope follower. How was Silver Apples of the Moon what I know now that I didn’t know then: It’s not
I’ve looked on the web and I didn’t find one made created and constructed? possible! We’re not geared for it. Music is part of us,
before that, but there could have been. I’d been First, we’re talking 1959 to 1961. At that time, all of us, but we get it so early in life that we’re not geared to
turning the output into a control voltage, and I could including myself, imagined music as marching on, so the “new,” whether we get it later in life or we get it
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then do real-time control of files. That changed all the way back to [Arnold] Schoenberg and the first from pop music. Whatever we do, it’s almost
everything for me, because then I started to build part of the 20th century, with him saying, “Now that impossible to understand it in the same way. What I
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control tracks. CBS eventually gave me an 8-track tape I’ve made the 12-tone technique, I’m assuring the did, looking back on it, I began to make new
recorder, which made everything better when I was grandeur of the Austrian composer for 100 years.” metaphors for music. I said, “A piece of music is not a
doing quadrophonic audio. I could make a control [Pierre] Boulez, [Luciano] Berio, and all, they started piece of music. It’s a record.” There’s side one and side
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track and use it for affecting anything that was on the with Schoenberg and then they discovered [Anton] two, and one could start with either side. Side one will
tapes. Then all I needed to do was to press a button Webern. Boulez wrote an article that started be about pitch and side two will be about time. The
and I could make a thing that was going “ooo uh ooo “Schoenberg is dead,” the king was Webern, and that very opening of Silver Apples… is an excellent
a” and it would then go “tr-tr-dd-tr-de.” It was was the beginning of the post-Webern movement. So, example of this, where there’s scat singing. That’s
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amazing! I’m still doing that stuff that way. The only when we get to the beginnings of electronics, even where you get the jazz; it was bebop. [scat sings] I’m
38/Tape Op#155/Subotnick/(continued on page 40)
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Please Support Our Advertisers/Tape Op#155/39

 Subotnick: Portrait of it was running for about two or three days. It blew my and I thought, ‘That’s really fresh.’ I looked at it, and
an Electronic Music Pioneer film mind. I couldn’t get my body off of it. It was not just it was made in 1967. I couldn’t believe it! I had to
As a perfect companion to our interview this issue, a beat and not just a groove. I grooved on it. It was interview you!” It was a re-finding, you could say.
director Robert Fantinatto and producer Jason Amm’s just the right tempo, so I played with it, and it was all Are you performing other new works on
87-minute film on Morton Subotnick brings to the there. I had another sequencer that would bring in tour? Have you thought to revive The
screen a portrait of where he is now and what he has another beat, a low note, which eventually went to a Wild Bull due to the current state of
accomplished. Interspersed with a journey into live subwoofer. There were probably six or seven positions the world?
performances in his 70s and 80s, where he connects on the sequencer control knob that one could go to, No, the only reason I do Silver Apples... is that it was the
with a new, younger audience, we learn so much with the time being that of the length of each beat. beginning. The way I play it now is because there’s no
about Morton’s life and work. Early years as a young Then I added another sequencer with 11 positions and other way to do it, it wouldn’t be possible. I sample
clarinetist were derailed by the draft, taking him into another with one of 15 positions, always an odd the entire piece. Side one and side two; each is a
the Korean War. Landing post-draft in San Francisco, number with one note as a starting point. Every time sample. Then I take the opening, and I make a loop
he formed the San Francisco Tape Music Center; a that note would come in, it would be in sync with one from the opening. It’s in Ableton [Live], so it’s
highly influential hub of electronic musicians. We get of the notes on the other sequencer. The whole set of looping and that’s the background. I can bring that
to reminisce with Ramon Sender about that time, and sequences were growing, so I didn’t know when each into the foreground in various ways; I can modulate
learn how they found Don Buchla when new one was going to come in. I could then go back it, and I can play parts against it that I have prepared.
commissioning the building of one of the earliest and forth until I got one cycle that came often enough There’s a very good Buchla 200 oscillator emulation
synthesizers, the Buchla 100 series Modular Electronic that I hadn’t forgotten it, and if I then pressed the that I can use. It’s a plug-in, so I can have five or six

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Music System, in 1963. As flower power took over SF, button, I could turn 11 into 7 or into 3. I could move of them in my patch, which keeps me closer to the
Morton moved to NYC and set up his home studio, the point back and forth to go more in one direction original Buchla. The side one part of the set is only
becoming a “composer as a studio artist,” and or another, and I was recording all this as I went. The four or five minutes of raw material. I use pretty much
working on his music as well as making music for other stuff that’s the “high jazz” was another take. This the whole range of side two so that it can build up. I
commercials. Morton and Nonesuch Records’ Jac was all going on and I could then overdub that. What have these sounds that I fly around the room, and I

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Holzman talk about their first meeting and the label I discovered at that point was that for me, even if this can add to them. I do another version of the bass
commisioning Silver Apples of the Moon. The film wasn’t really dance music, it still caused your body to now, with the subwoofer, because on the vinyl it

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follows the time leading up to As I Live and Breathe groove. It draws you in. I’d never been drawn into a doesn’t get far enough down to have a good sub bass.
tour, but we get to follow the “Crowds and Power” beat or a meter before when I was a clarinetist playing I filtered out the bass on the samples, put a new
work they performed at Lincoln Center with his wife, symphonic music. I’d played in a dance band, so I did version that’s heavy, and now I can do it well. I can

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composer and vocalist Joan La Barbara, and Lillevan’s have that in high school, but I hated it! So that’s how bring them in when I want, or I can loop it all. That’s
visuals, and we catch some of the Alec Empire set Silver Apples… was made, and that changed the process, and the whole thing runs 10 minutes.
mentioned in our interview. everything for me about rhythm and time. When I come down in the end, sometimes I take it
The documentary is a treat to watch. Morton comes Was Steve Reich [Tape Op #15] around into the next piece [“As I Live and Breathe,” with
off so humble, engaged, and forward-thinking. this scene? visuals by Lillevan.] It’s just a document of the
Learning how he and Joan met and fell in love is a Not at the Tape Center, but a few years before we beginning, and then I have to figure out how to get
highlight, as are clips of him teaching workshops and
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premiered “It’s Gonna Rain” or “Come Out,” whichever Lillevan on the stage. I try to do it without a pause in
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working at home. The spatial mixes of his music in the one it was. Steve wasn’t doing beats at that time. At between: The light comes on, I breathe, and we start.
film also hint at how interesting immersive that same time, Terry Riley first did “In C” and Steve I’m not interested in reinventing Silver Apples... It’s a
composing and mixing can be outside of the pop/rock played the pulse part in it. He introduced that to Terry, lot of work and I’m not really interested in that. That
world. Filmed and edited very well, the look of the evidently, and played with them at the performance in work was made for a record which is the real form for
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movie and the pacing keep the viewer hooked all November 1964. But the beats didn’t come in a steady it, and that’s where it belongs.
along. I’d highly recommend seeing Subotnick. way. Steve was phasing, and the phasing didn’t cause What were some of your earliest
(waveshapermedia.com) -LC you to do a dance. It wasn’t until Philip Glass had the inspirations?
beat going all the time, and he just nodded his head Theoretically, one of the things that I’ve tried really hard
when the beat would go from three to five or to do started when I was eight or nine years old. I
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all over the place! That was called “pitches which are whatever, and that was a big thing. After that, Steve read stoic philosophy by accident. There were a bunch
disjointed” – they’re not connected to each other. I stopped the phasing; that is, he phased, but in time. of books in the garage that were neatly stacked, and
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had another take which was “pitches which are close I never talked with him about it. Phasing was out of none of them had been opened. They were the
to each other” – scalar, but they weren’t in scales. time, it was just speeding up and slowing down, and classics! My parents had the Book of the Month Club,
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Since I had nothing then that could make a scale that doesn’t give you much of a beat. I don’t think but they ended up putting them in the garage! I was
with, I ended up doing it all by ear. I didn’t even Steve started that until the success of [Philip Glass’] attracted to Marcus Aurelius and his teacher,
think of the second side until I finished the first side! Einstein on the Beach. All of that was influenced by Apollonius of Chalcedon, but I never discussed it. It
The second side, I said, “Well, where do I go? This Morton Feldman’s “Piece for Four Pianos.” We were all affected the rest of my life. I was already fairly
would be a good place for a sequencer. I’ll get a totally knocked out by that. The single page of music existential, in the sense that I didn’t believe in God.
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groove going.” I got it set up and I played it. It took and the way in which he organized it was just This stoic philosophy attracted my thoughts, and I
me, on average, from two weeks to a month and a dynamite! It didn’t influence me, but it sure affected decided to be a human meant to do the best you can
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half for each section, and 13 months [total] to make me deeply, and I’ve always thought that it was a big do at whatever you can do, perfect it to the utmost
Silver Apples... In each of these little recording influence on those guys, but maybe not! as you have an obligation in life, and to share it.
sessions I would have a patch that I worked on, What made you begin to think about When I say this – I’ve said this in several interviews –
depending on what it was, from a week to two weeks touring Silver Apples…?
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my eyes well up because that has been my life. I really

to a month. When we set up in the studio, it would This is how I got on the road: They discovered Silver have done it, and it’s the one thing I’m proud about
be going continually, because if I turned it off, I Apples of the Moon 50 years later! When I was coming – that I have stuck with it. The idea of those pieces
didn’t know what would happen. I’d get a little out and gigging, I did a radio show at Columbia that went on record was not for me to play, as I never
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groove pattern going that was a little different to University, and the DJ said, “You know how I got Silver thought anyone would listen to them. I didn’t care. I
start with, and I didn’t have an absolute meter until Apples…? I found it in this box, I began playing it, was doing my best and sharing. What a pleasure to
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Please Support Our Advertisers/Tape Op#155/41

 Suzanne Ciani on Subotnick
"Morton Subotnick is a musical thinker, philosopher,
and doer who has pioneered a unique pathway in the
world of analog modular music. It would be enough for
me if all he had done was inspire Don Buchla to
manifest his first analog modular music instrument, the
Buchla 100. It would have been enough if all he had
done was create the San Francisco Tape Music Center,
where I had the privilege of working late into the nights
alone with the Buchla 100 and Moog Model 15. For me
– working at the Buchla factory and soldering the new
Buchla 200 systems for delivery to Cal Arts, where
Morton was heading the electronic music department –
Morton’s name was a disembodied presence that
seemed to follow me everywhere. We didn’t actually
connect, other than cursively, until my later years,
when in 2016 we were both performing in Germany and

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were hosted in a conversation about our mutual
passion, the Buchla synthesizer. It’s taken me a lifetime
to be able to deeply honor and appreciate this man who
went before me, and in many ways was responsible for
come back 40 years later, have people discovering it, No, not another visual artist, but I did a performance at
laying the foundation upon which I could build my own
and saying, “Wow, this is one way to go with it.” If it REDCAT in Los Angeles with the [California] E.A.R.
musical life. I have many fond memories of bumping

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made contact with someone, that was great. I’m really Unit – the three of them and I played. It was
into Morton “on the road,” watching this brilliant,
getting to this stuff, and I didn’t want to take the time wonderful. We’d spent two days rehearsing. It was a
talkative man in his 80s continuing to travel and

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to indulge in anything else. Joan [LaBarbara, Morton’s violinist, a percussionist, and [percussionist] Amy
perform. He continues to inspire me as I look to my
wife, also a composer and vocalist] can tell you that I Knoles – a wonderful performance. We did two
upcoming 80s and I continue to tour."
have a routine and I just do it! That’s the truth. I have evenings. I had hesitated, but I knew that I was their
See Suzanne's interview in Tape Op #148.
other things I’m still trying to get done, and when I godfather. I had gotten them together at CalArts

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<www.sevwave.com>
get them done, maybe – if I could still stand and when they were students and got them scholarships
whatever – I could do it with another piece. Because to make a new musical ensemble. They came out of
Silver Apples... is doing it. We are who we invent. That that as the [California] E.A.R. Unit and have been
idea worked out well, though it wasn’t what I originally playing together ever since.
wanted it to be. What I originally wanted was a How did you develop “As I Live and l
mistake, but that’s what we ended up with. What I Breathe” with Lillevan?
wanted now was to play Silver Apples..., or perhaps a We never had a strategy, because the whole idea we do
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new piece, and have someone from a more recent on this piece, “As I Live and Breathe,” was very brief.
generation do their own version of Silver Apples... At the very top of this page is the strategy, and it’s
Is that why the collaboration with Alec simple: I start out with a breath with the light on me.
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Empire of Atari Teenage Riot came As I breathe the first sound, there’s silence and
about? darkness, and then Lillevan makes an image. More
I had met Alec in Berlin – he was a friend of Lillevan’s. silence, darkness, and then I do it again, and then we
Photo by Mark "Frosty" McNeill. from his interview with
We got on, and I decided he could do it. What he did begin to collapse the time until there’s no time at all
Suzanne and Morton <frosty.la>
was to make a kind of groove out of Silver Apples of between our entrances. It’s that open. He takes cues
the Moon, and he was going to have it control other from me, then I interrupt him as I’m beginning to do
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things. I thought, “This is not what I had in mind.” I more. I’ve added more material now so I can develop went into 8th Street Records, a big, big record store
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thought it was going to be very academic. It was the piece further, because it was rather crude the first in the Village. I went in and said to the clerk, “I hear
funny for him to come to me, and I say, “It’s time we did it. But still, that’s the only strategy: I there’s this record, Silver Apples of the Moon.” He said,
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academic,” but I hate the academic world anyway. So give him what I’m doing, and when I think about “Yeah, but it’s shit. We’ve sold it out. I don’t know
instead, I said, “Why don’t we just play together?” I what I’m doing, I give him another. He developed all why they’re buying it. I can show you some really
made places for him to do solos, where he could do of his visuals separately, and then we both come good LPs.” He brings out the Columbia-Princeton
whatever he wanted. I opened up the second part together with our gestures. [Electronic Music Center] LP. I said, “No, no! I really
with a cadenza, where I added an underpinning that Any final thoughts today? want Silver Apples of the Moon.” He said, “Maybe we
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I could manipulate, and he could play over the top. It My original idea was to stay in the studio and never have one more copy,” and I bought it. I walked in a
was really fun, and he did very nicely, though that’s leave, and once a month people could come in and giant; I walked out a midget. It really put me in my
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not what I had in mind. I was thinking someone listen to what I was doing. But I also thought that it place. I walked down the stairs feeling so big, but I
would come up with a new version that I would be probably was not such a good idea! In fact, I might could barely make it back up the stairs, they were so
interested to hear. I didn’t want to hear my version have ended up doing that – staying at home – if Jac big. I thanked him for that. That was great to do. I
with someone else’s timbres or something. That [Holzman] hadn’t come in and given me that don’t think he did it on purpose, but it was good! r
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doesn’t make sense to me. commission. I didn’t believe it was happening, and I
Are you working with any other visual couldn’t believe it was a success either. I was so Thank you to Waveshaper Media for the photos in this
artists? excited that not only did the record come out, but interview.
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that it was successful. I wanted to buy a record, so I <mortonsubotnick.com> <elliottsharp.com>

42/Tape Op#155/Subotnick/(Fin.)
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 In his well-equipped and comfortable Old One of the thoughts I push back on is Yeah. I never had kids, partly because of
Soul Studios in Catskill, New York, where when people say “there’s only one what I was doing.
artists such as Ratatat, Beirut, and The New way” to making records. In some ways it feels like sometimes I’m trying to do
Right. It’s part of our jobs, as we get older, to stay open. To the impossible. My wife is an amazing songwriter
Pornographers [Tape Op #27] have made
remain creative. The more I live, the more I actively work and musician, and so music is very real in our home.
records, Kenny Siegal has worked on albums to make sure that I don’t close up. It’s one of the reasons The kids now are playing, and it’s incredible that it
with Chris Whitley, Langhorne Slim, that I play music so much, and I continue to write songs. didn’t skip a generation. They love it. Music is the
Spottiswoode & His Enemies, Chuck Producing is a skill for me, and so is engineering, but language at home.
Prophet, Tears For Fears [#147], Robin playing and writing music is a quest. I have to stay on it I would imagine. Is the studio
and keep doing it, and there’re so many benefits to that. connected to your house?
Taylor Zander (RTZ), The Wiyos, his own
Some artists are slow to release albums I’m here at Old Soul in Catskill, and this is a 3,500
projects, Johnny Society and HUNK, and and others churn records out. square foot brick building built in 1855. There are
with his wife, Gwen Snyder Siegal, on her I’ve been through prolific phases in my lifetime, where I five bedrooms here, but we don’t live here. We
albums as Blueberry. He’s an interesting felt I didn’t have time to perfect anything. I used to say lived here when our first daughter was born, but it
combination of songwriter, producer, singer, to myself when I was younger, “One of these days it will became evident pretty quickly that it was not
musician, engineer, and studio owner, and – slow down, I’ll look back, and I’ll maybe work on the possible to live in the studio. Bands travel here,
craft a little bit more.” It took a long time for me to slow and they come here from the city a lot and they

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as you will see – someone who thinks about
down. I’m going to be 50, and we started a family, had stay here and record. Mixing all that with family
the creative process all the time. two kids, and their energy was so intense that I had to was not possible!
slow down just to be a parent. No, I can’t imagine! [laughter]

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Kenny Siegal

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A Sense of Balance

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We live about 20 minutes from here. We have a small of my brain. I like to work fast, with a lot of energy. I Those three are such quintessential
house, and we have a little shack on the property that try to get the best out of everybody who’s involved, engineers.
we turned into a studio. I needed instruments where including myself as a player. With that in mind, I had It’s true. They bring a lot to the process, in that regard.
our family was. We call it “Little Soul.” It’s got enough to do the comping, the muting schemes, and When I know that somebody has got all the sonic stuff
cool shit in it to make good recordings. If somebody consolidating files. I was making sure the levels were covered, then I tell myself that I can now concentrate
else is working or making a record at Old Soul, I can communicating in the way where the energy rises, on trying to be the best artist that I can be, because
still be creative there. where the energy dips. I didn’t leave it to Jack and Jay I know it’s going to sound good.
Did that come in handy during the early to do that. We’re paying them by the hour, and these Did you ever have any bad experiences
pandemic? songs got expensive. And as much as I love and when you first started trying to
The pandemic and the shutdown had forced me to respect their work, we still would have tweaks and record your own music?
embrace remote working. On the new Hunk record revisions. It was a creative process. After the first song
I definitely did. Early on, there was one guy that we
[HUNK II], we worked with Jack Douglas and Jay was when I found that the more work I’d do before I worked with that liked to smoke a lot of weed, which
Messina [both in Tape Op #90]. They mixed the record. sent it to them, the smoother this was going to go. It is usually totally cool, but in this case we all felt it got
It was an incredible creative experience for me and got easier. It was great to work with Jack and Jay. in the way of the work.
the band. I had to prep the tracks, essentially pre- Those guys were inspiring. I was getting a kick out of It can work for some people!
mixing, and what I realized quickly was that the more what their work meant to me as a music lover. Every I don’t judge, but I do believe that it created some sort
work I did before I sent them the files, the better it time they would send me a new mix, it would sound of barrier for us. You get into the studio, and to reach
was going to go. It was an interesting process, even better. I couldn’t remember a time when I’d sent these spiritual highs and to expose yourself creatively

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especially with the way I work. It’s almost like two music out to somebody and was so pleased with what and be as free as you can be, I want to believe that
separate minds. When I’m creating, I don’t want to was being sent back to me. It was such a pleasure. the people I’m working with are “there” with me.
stop to be organized. I find that to be a separate part That’s why you hired them! There’s that sense of trust. Looking back, I think this
The other thing that’s funny is that when the music’s one record might have come out better if the producer
by Larry Crane done, we don’t remember any of this shit! wasn’t stoned the whole time. [laughs] But you live

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Right. and you learn. On the upside, some of the negative
photo by I don’t remember any of the emails back and forth or experiences helped me to realize how to work “right.”

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trying to figure out what to do. All that has Through this, I developed my philosophy of what I
Rayon Richards disappeared, and we’re left with the songs. It’s better need when I’m working. It also helped me to realize
for your mental health to make decisions, commit, and that I should become a good producer in my own

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move on. I’ve put a lot of thought into this. It’s like right. Even the negative experiences were valuable. It
developing a muscle specifically to finish projects. A was an important experience. Sometimes we need to
lot of people are not well-versed in it. You’re referring work in ways that are not right to figure out how to
to an aspect of the process where people are indecisive work correctly. I guess it comes down to energy.
or uncertain; that space of uncertainty is like purgatory Staying with positive energy is the way to go forward.
to me. I don’t like to remain there for long. Yeah. I totally concur.
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People ask me, “How do you know when When I was younger, I would party. I wouldn’t ever
ai
a mix is done?” Well, I feel it. judge anyone for partying. However, working on music
Right. Trust has a lot to do with this. If I’m working with was a sacred thing to me. It always was, and it
people I’ve never met, and they don’t know me well, remains that way. It’s something that is almost hard
this gets into psychology. Making music with people to express. As an artist, I’ve got to work with people
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and producing; there’s a certain psychology to it. who I know, love, and trust and that I feel I can be at
Sometimes with people I need to ask, “What’s the my best around. Who will push me to reach higher
goal? What do you expect of this song?” Maybe it’s creative heights and will challenge me. I’m lucky that
communicating clearly to me as the listener. Some when I need to work with outside people that I have
people can get hung up, and they get stuck. I tend a shortlist of professionals I can call who are pretty
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not to work with those people very much, but they do fucking great to work with.
exist. We can mix the same song 500 different ways. When you’re working on your own
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It helps if we’re working with people whose vision is music, like Johnny Society, do you
understood, and if they don’t have a vision, they produce yourself?
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should let us have our vision. I definitely produce it, but I welcome co-production. I’ll
That’s why a person may choose a bring it to Bryce or Joe Blaney. Sometimes Matthew
different producer for different Cullen records our foundational tracks. I see the power in
records. collaboration. When you put good teams together, you
Yeah. Different producers bring different aspects out of can end up with results that are way beyond what you
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people. I’ve been blessed over the years to collaborate could have done on your own. The other core members
with some amazing people. I can listen to music I of Johnny Society, Brian Geltner and my wife Gwen, also
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recorded with Bryce Goggin [Tape Op #40] back in the contribute so much creatively. I love their input; but after
‘90s at Baby Monster Studios. I listen to it now and our sessions many hours of grunt work go in on my own,
still love it. Bryce is somebody I’ve done a lot of hence I think of myself as the main producer. Someone’s
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inspiring work with. I’ve done work that I love with got to see the work all the way through.
Tom Schick [#132], and I’ve also worked with Joe Yeah. Sometimes there’s a crazy myth
Blaney. There are recordings I’ve done with Joe where that as producers we’re always going
the music just jumps out of the speakers, and I’m to have 100 percent of the direction
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proud to hear it. mapped out.

K. Siegal/(continued on page 46)/Tape Op#155/45
 That’s weird. It defies the idea of what is actually work at the studio. They don’t give a shit about my
happening. To get music done, you’re diving into some ideas. [laughs] So, sometimes I’ll just be an engineer.
mysterious process. That’s why I love to do it, and why Some people reach out to me because they heard
I still continue to do it. It’d be boring to know exactly Johnny Society’s music, and they want me to produce
what it will be. You start something and usually it their songs. In that situation, I just so happen to have
becomes something completely different than what a studio and we can get work done. Some people reach
you planned. Mistakes sometimes are the most fun out to me because they want me to play guitar.
things to listen to. I want to love this when it’s done, Sometimes I get called for songwriting. I have to keep
so my desire to really love what I’m listening to, and an open mind and tell myself, “If I can be creative and
what I’m working on, is what I’m wrestling with the making a living, I’m very lucky.”
whole time that I’m working. That’s where the conflict It’s important that we look at it that
is. You try to drop a song into the speakers, and you way. It is a multitude of different jobs
ask yourself if it’s it speaking to you the way that you to offer.
believe it can. In some cases it is, and you’re lucky. If When I used to go out on the road with Johnny Society,
it’s not, then you have to figure out, “What can I do I used to bump into bands, and I’d say to myself, “I
to make this speak more?” Try not to get in your own could produce them. I would love to make a record
way. Try to be free. Try to work with chaos and try to with them.” The feeling would be so fiery, so
get parts to sound like they’re alive. passionate, and so real that it would overtake my state

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I always tell people that it’s not done of mind. I would become engulfed in this feeling. This
until it’s mastered, and even then, is why Old Soul was the perfect creation. It alleviated
maybe it’s not done. a certain [amount of] searching – a lot of unknown
That’s a good point. I’m not afraid to say, “Okay, this elements were suddenly out of the picture. I have the
version is good, but I think there’s a better version in building, and, if we have an idea, we can execute it.

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us.” I’ve done that. My band works hard, and I’m When did you get the building and this
thankful that they put up with my standards. They space up and running?

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have high standards too. My wife, Gwen, makes music In 2001. I was 28 years old at the time. I wanted to buy
under the name Blueberry, and she’s got such beautiful a shack in the woods; a small space that I could call my
songs. She has a vision that is so unique to her. We studio. I had a publishing deal, and instead of living off

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work on that together. The drummer in Johnny of that money over a year, I took that advance, found
Society, Brian Geltner, is a phenomenal multi- this building, and I put the money down. Then I had no
instrumentalist who I’ve been making music with since fucking income. [laughs] I had the keys to this building,
I was a little kid. He has high standards. He has and I had no money left. At that point, I told everybody
opinions. When you have a band it’s like a family. I knew in New York, “I just bought this building. Come
You’re working with everybody’s sensibilities, trying to up and I’ll produce or play on your music. I’ll do it for
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get everybody to be excited about the results, and it’s cheap.” That’s how I built this place up early on. Now
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challenging, but we get there. it’s 20 years and over 110 records later.
I was recently on some sessions with a Were you living in New York City before?
couple of artists that go back to my We were living in Brooklyn. I used to live in Dumbo in
basement studio days 28 years ago. 1995. It was very different than it is now. Larry, we
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Many parts of it just fell into place. were the only space in that J Street building, in the
That’s a beautiful thing. I believe in that. Chemistry is basement there. My old friend, Chris Rael, found this
really important, and intense in that way. People crazy, lone work space, and we rented it to use as our
who did not see each other for 20 years, and then studio. Then the Hasidim, who owned the whole area,
suddenly they’ll be playing and linked together. It’s saw that it was working for us, and they built up all
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unbelievable! Sometimes it can get lost in the the spaces around us. All of a sudden, they were
session world, but I could say that around here, in renting to tons of people. There were death metal
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upstate New York where I’m working, I’m lucky to be bands around us. It started out good, then suddenly I
surrounded by such great people. I’m constantly found I couldn’t concentrate. I had a session with one
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bringing people in to work here on different projects. of my heroes, who was a friend of mine. He passed
I can’t think of a session that hasn’t been inspiring away. It was a Johnny Society session and Chris
in years here. Whitley came down to play guitar on some of our
How does work come to you? music. There was a death metal band rehearsing down
The first thing I would say is that I realized years ago the hall, and I remember saying to myself, “That’s it!
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that to survive in this business, you have to [be able I’m fucking changing this scene.” I started thinking
to] do everything. When I was younger, I told myself about finding a space outside the city. My wife, who
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if I’m going to try to make something of Johnny was my girlfriend at the time, and I moved out of the
Society, I’m just going to do Johnny Society and I’m city. A local real estate agent brought me to Old Soul.
not going to do anything else. That served me for a It was the first place she brought me to. When I came
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while. But all of that inevitably led to me buying this into the space, I was silent. I knew something heavy
building in Catskill and starting Old Soul. The studio was going to happen. I bought the building, and I’m
was the perfect creation, because it is a place to so glad I did. Not that it’s been easy. We’ve been
concentrate. It’s like a laboratory, and it’s a place to through many ups and downs and slow periods and
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execute visions. Because I have the studio, some times where I was worried if I could keep it going, but
people reach out to me because they just want to we always managed to make it work.
One of the aspects that people often don’t down. My friend Nick [Kinsey] has a studio called The
understand is that it’s not about Chicken Shack. He’s a drummer who plays with Elvis
putting gear in a room, but about Perkins. Sometimes he will say, “Let’s completely
having some larger scene based change the groove and do a whole other take on it.”
around it that generates something Jared Samuel will come in and play keyboards, and
else outside of the room and the gear. sometimes he will have a reaction where, “This song is
Oh, totally man. I do think that there are many people great, but we should try a completely different take on
that don’t understand what you just said. The gear is the whole thing.” Jesse Murphy is an amazing bass
there to help us record our musical visions. Yes, gear player who is also a producer and songwriter, and he’ll
matters. But it does not matter more than instruments, do the same. And I, as a producer, I welcome this.
your desire to express yourself and to be creative, and But there are also times when I have to
to get something going musically with your friends. My say, “Nope, but thanks for the idea.”
roots were about playing, writing, and being creative. Exactly. I use my gut for that. I welcome any idea, but I
Inevitably I had to own my own space, and I lucked out don’t accept every idea.
by getting Old Soul. It gets into taking care of yourself. There’s a bluntness that we all need to
Music is about energy. We have to have energy to give, carry, but also with a sensitiveness
right? In other words, we get a gift, and we have to beforehand.
honor our gift. Part of that is taking care of your person That gets back to trust. The people I work with, I tend to

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and yourself. You have to be in a good state of mind. feel that I have good relationships with. We trust each
When your body’s not at 100 percent other. They’ve seen me dig deep and I’m not afraid to
everything is harder. be wrong. I’m not afraid to fall on my face. That’s what
With every artist that I work with, I say to them, “When the studio is there for. I don’t dismiss my own crazy
we have to do vocals, you have to sleep. You have to ideas. When they come, I honor them.

)
get rest.” It’s taxing and quite physical to sing. We used Are there engineers in the area that
to tour with Cheap Trick, and we couldn’t believe the work in your place too?

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way that it sounded when Robin Zander was warming The studio is a little idiosyncratic. It’s not really a
up his vocals. He’s got such an incredible voice. I asked, commercial studio, but it’s pretty simple to work there.
“Robin, how do you do that?” He said, “It’s just a I have Old Soul-affiliated engineers who know the

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muscle!” It was a workout for him to get ready to sing place. They’ve been part of good sessions here. Matthew
those sets. As I developed more as a singer, I also Cullen lives a couple of blocks away. He works here all
realized singing is like putting your life force into it. It’s the time. Tyler Wood’s also in the area; a talented mixer
a very important aspect of making records. The voice is and an amazing musician. There are people I can call
what most people are listening to. who are good. They know what it’s like here, and how
I hate if we haven’t started getting to to be productive. I want people to come through here
vocals early on a project and it’s all and be serious. We do ten-hour sessions. I don’t like to
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piled up to do at the end. go longer than that.
I would say this to anyone who’s producing music all the You’ve alluded to a life/work balance.
time. Get a rough vocal down early! In order to have a proper reference point for our work
Oh, 100 percent. we have to continue to live, and we have to continue
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If the singer’s not going to sing live, if they’re not going to keep challenging ourselves and striving in other
to go for it live, then right away after you get what is areas of life. Music sounds better when we have some
considered the basics, put the vocal down. The main life force to resonate with. If you’re too tunnel
thing that I’ve realized over the years is that the vocal visioned in the studio you can lose your way, or lose
informs the rest of the production decisions. I think your perspective as to why music is even fucking good
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about the vocals, and I always think about tempo. If in the first place.
the tempo is too slow it could do a great disservice to It’s certainly true of songwriting.
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the material and to the song. Getting that tempo right My father passed away a year ago. I was sad; experiencing
is so important. A good trick is finding the original anguish and grieving. I knew that I was off, and I wasn’t
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songwriting – like a voice memo or a cassette. When living life, whether it was depression or just the grieving
they sat and wrote it, what was the original idea? process. I sat down at the piano, I wrote a song, and I
That’s a telling, useful thing. Ask the main songwriter, got the whole, complete feeling, all of it, out in this
“Play the song for me as if no one’s ever heard it song. The song gave me my life back. After I wrote the
before. How does it go?” At the end of the day, this just song, I felt so much better. I felt that I had said exactly
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gets into communication. They’re communicating a what I needed to say about my feelings about grieving.
song to somebody. I do think people get fatigued in To me, that alchemical process of taking this pain and
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the studio and they lose perspective. That could be the turning it into something beautiful is the essence of why
enemy, and it can do a lot of damage. I write music and why I always have.
Like if the process of “building” the So much music is fascinating to us in its
sadness.
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record becomes more important than

the results. It offers something to us listeners. It’s like a service to
Yeah. If you’re working with people who are really the people.
insightful and they’re really good, they may have some “You are not alone.”
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amazing, unexpected views. I believe in pre-production. Yes. You get into these other areas of why music exists
In pre-production rehearsals we’ll turn songs upside- and the power of it, the healing qualities.
K. Siegal/(continued on page 48)/Tape Op#155/47
 Music therapy, and the deeper meanings of what music After making that record, Chris said to me that it was the
can do, is something I’ve been considering. It involves most fun he’d ever had in the studio. At that time in
a lot of school, so I don’t know that I’m going to ever his life, he was struggling. He wasn’t well. Each day we
do it. I did a project years ago that Sam Cohen [Tape would get a window of time when Chris was feeling
Op #151] was involved in, playing some pedal steel. It well enough to work, and that’s when we’d record. He
was with Yodelin’ Mickey Holt, who was in his was going through something pretty intense. He was
seventies. I met him in a music store. I overheard him an old friend of ours. I just wanted to work with him
singing, and I couldn’t believe how beautiful his voice as best as I could. When he asked me to produce a
was. After he was done, I said, “Who are you, man? And record for him, I thought he was going to show up with
where can I get one of your records?” He said, “I never a bunch of songs, like the Chris Whitley records that I
made a record!” I said, “You’re going to make a record had heard. When he showed up, he didn’t have
now.” He said, “Kenny, I can’t remember what I ate for anything.
breakfast, but all the songs are still in my head.” He No songs?
had Parkinson’s disease. He said, “All right, Kenny, what are we going to do?” It was
Oh, shit. Yeah, my dad had that. a pretty crazy position to be put in. I started writing on
I’m sorry to hear that. At the time I met Mickey, he was the spot. We started jamming and coming up with ideas.
struggling with everything, but the last thing to go Some of that is on the record. I’d come up with a riff and
was his ability to play and sing. He remembered the musical direction, and he would come up with some

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lyrics, and we made this amazing record. To this day, poetry. We had this nice song “All Beauty Taken From
his family still sends me notes and thanks us for this You in This Life Remains Forever.” It’s a great message
music. To me, that was music therapy. It was one of the and a great song. It’s really loose. On that record, Chris
most meaningful projects I’ve ever worked on. wanted to do what other studio experiences never let
Sometimes there’s a greater calling him do. He sang lead vocals with no headphones, right

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to this than we anticipated when here, with the studio speakers going. When you listen to
we began. it, you hear a sense of it being a little more lo-fi, and it’s

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Definitely, man. because of crazy decisions like that. But man, it was fun
Researching you, I could not put some of to work on. It felt like we were capturing some special
the dots together on your life. How in performances together.

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the world did you end up on a Tears I think you did.
For Fears record [Everybody Loves a Thank you for saying that. We were actually gearing up
Happy Ending]? to make another Bastard Club record, but then Chris
An old friend of mine, Charlton Pettus, has been in the passed away.
band for 22 years now. He and I have co-written a lot Yeah, it’s sad. Do you stockpile song
ideas?
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of music together. He worked on some of Hunk’s first
album [Hunk]. We continue to stay in touch, and we’ve Sometimes I’ll get a question like, “I need a song for…”
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worked together a lot over the years. At some point and something will brew in me. I’ll think, “What would
when they were making that record, Charlton said, “Can be good?” It could be a weird song from ten years ago.
you and Brian [Geltner] do some parts on a couple of It’s a lifelong process of trying to organize ideas and a
songs?” He knew that if he asked me to do something, musical vision. I’ve got songs that I love, and for one
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that I would work really hard on it. They sent us a reason or another I haven’t seen them completely
couple of songs. It was a click track, a couple of through. They’re alive in my mind. Lately I’ve been
acoustic guitars, and some vocals. We got it early in the making music with Ron English, who’s a pop art artist,
development of the tracks. It was really fun to work on. like a modern day Andy Warhol. He’s created an
Did you get any guidance? alternate world called Delusionville. He’s a lyricist, and
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He knew he could just let us go nuts. I don’t believe loves to make music, so he’s been sending me some
there was anything strict. His producer idea was, “Get lyrics. That’s something I’ve been having a lot of fun
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Geltner’s drums and get some of Kenny’s guitar with. It hits a certain aspect of my mind, and it’s fun
playing,” and it might have been that simple. We to create songs with somebody else’s lyrics.
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worked hard to make sure that we got good-feeling There are probably good exercises all
parts. I remember playing my Les Paul through the around, different starting points or
analog delay from MXR [118] through a Fender intent.
Vibroverb. It was pretty quick, and pretty simple. Absolutely. There’s always something to learn. On my
I interviewed Roland [Orzabal, Tape Op phone I have over a thousand song ideas. It’s so
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#147], and it was fascinating to talk important to take that extra step and document it,
to him. because you don’t know when it’s going to come in
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I’m in touch with him, every once in a while. Actually, handy. These song ideas are little gifts.
we did some here at Old Soul. Then we went out to I was just at John Baccigaluppi’s
California, and we all sang some backing vocals. That’s Panoramic House last month. I know
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when I met Roland. We used to see Curt [Smith] all the you’ve worked there.
time, because he used to be down at the studio in I don’t think I’ve ever been in a more beautiful
Dumbo working with Charlton back in the day. environment to make music. It’s an incredible view of
I also listened to Chris Whitley [& The the ocean. Unbelievable.
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Bastard Club]’s Reiter In. That What were you working on out there?
record’s wild.
I made some music with Langhorne Slim. We’ve worked on a
few records together. The first record we made at Old Soul
was called The Way We Move. It was the most commercially
successful thing I’ve ever worked on. The second record
[The Spirit Moves] we went down to Nashville and worked
at [Andrija Tokic’s] The Bomb Shelter [Tape Op #111].
Oh yeah, I’ve been there.
We did some good work there. At Panoramic we recorded a
bunch of material, and that also got released. Then we
made some music at Dockside [Studio] in [Maurice,]
Louisiana, which has not been released yet, but hopefully
will be soon.
You went to some cool places!
Yeah, we even worked on the island of Hydra [Greece] at a
place called The Old Carpet Factory, which was an
incredible experience. It’s always good to get out of your
element. I get a kick out of it. Sometimes I think I do my
best work here, but I don’t know. I pride myself on being

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able to work anywhere. I can always access the creative
flow. Where do you feel you do the best work?
It’s so much easier to work in my place! But
I think I focus the same wherever I am.
It took me a long time to figure out this thing that we’re

)
talking about. Mainly what I concluded is how to finish
projects, and where can I get a certain equilibrium and a

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sense of balance. That balance comes from being at Old
Soul. I can venture out and get great performances, but I
like to finish music here.

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I feel the same way. Most projects where I
tracked and produced elsewhere, I
finished at Jackpot! [Recording Studio,
Portland, Oregon].
That’s a valuable little bit of information there. At the end of
the day, people are only going to hear this end result. The
end result matters. Knowing where we can get the best
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results as producers or mixers, that’s an important thing.
Another part of that is that the more I mix,
and the better I get at mixing, the more
I’m going to push to track with better
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intent. “Why was that so hard to mix?

Well, I fucked up. That’s why.”
That’s a great point. You know who told me exactly what
you’re saying now? Henry Hirsch [Tape Op #56]. I’ve done
a little bit of work with him, but not much. He said if a
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song is well-produced and recorded, then when you push

the faders up to unity it should sound great. It challenged
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a lot of what I had been doing before. It’s not unlike what
we were talking about with pre-mixing. Getting your shit
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together [laughs] and making sure that you’re recording

what you want to hear involves a lot of vision and
commitment. You make up your mind. r
<www.oldsoulstudios.com> <www.johnnysociety.com>
<www.blueberrylounge.com> <www.hunktheband.com>
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Please Support Our Advertisers/Tape Op#155/49

 n eider
e r t Sc h
b
Roive Interview
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On April 14, 2018, at Jackpot! Recording Studio, I interviewed There was a band called the Thinking
Robert Schneider in front of a live audience. Afterwards, he did Fellers Union Local 282 in the Bay Area.
a short solo set, and then The Minders played – a band both of us God, they’re so good.
I interviewed Hugh Swarts from the
had recorded albums for and are friends with. Robert and I first
Thinking Fellers for issue one of Tape Op.
met in 1996, when I interviewed him and The Apples In Stereo
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I asked, “Anything cool you’ve heard

for Tape Op #2. Alongside some classic Apples and The Minders lately?” He said Fun Trick Noisemaker by
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albums and other projects he’s in, he recorded and produced The Apples In Stereo.
records for Neutral Milk Hotel [#11] and The Olivia Tremor Oh my god. You don’t understand. We worshiped Thinking
Control [#17] and co-founded The Elephant 6 Recording Co. (See Fellers. That’s awesome that he said that. They’re one of the
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best bands ever.

the wonderful The Elephant 6 Recording Co. documentary that
Oh yeah. When I was in Vomit Launch, we
we are both in). Now, with his recently attained Doctorate in used to play lots of shows together and
mathematics, we sat down in front of a live audience to chat sleep on each other’s floors and drink too
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again! Check out the podcast of this conversation as well! much beer. They were great.
 We were sitting out there, and we did able to get these really awesome dual-cassette boom
an interview late at night on boxes back in the day. I’m sure you can still get them.
Hawthorne, just a few blocks away. But they had this feature. You could dub cassettes
We should all go down there and do this interview! from one to the other. Also, boom boxes had built-in
Bring your quarters. The interview was mics, and they sounded great. That’s a great way to
in 1996. It came out in the second record. So, you could play a tape on one of the tape
issue of Tape Op. Xeroxed. decks that you would use as a dubbing deck, but you
Tape Op, for one thing was a zine at the time. It was a could have it set up so that the microphones would
home recording zine, and it was by far like the hippest be live. The microphones are picking up the tape
recording magazine and zine of all time. I was really you’re playing, and they’re also picking up the sounds
proud you included us in it. Thank you. in the room. You would probably discover something
That was part of the journey of doing like that by accident, like I did. This lady who lived in
Tape Op, if I can turn this all about the neighborhood, who was the mom of one of my
myself for a moment, was meeting so sister’s friends, hired me to make her a series of heavy
many cool people doing things in metal compilations, because I was really into heavy
different parts of the country as well. metal. I started up a little cassette label when I was
Talking to you, turned me on to The in 6th grade to dub off these bootleg heavy metal
Minders. When they moved out here, cassettes for this woman. So, while I was dubbing up

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it was like, welcome The Minders. the cassettes, after I got through some volume of it,
They’re friends with Robert and I noticed that me shuffling around the room was on
everybody. It definitely builds a the cassette. I was mortified. “Oh my god!” Then in
community too, the like-mindedness the same moment I realized I could play music off the
of everything. thing and play along with it, and then it would be

)
Yeah, totally agreed. Being in music is great that way. recorded plus have the original music with me playing
Music is like this thing that humans do that brings us along with it. You could do that back and forth. That’s

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together. We use it when we’re together too. It’s really just ping-ponging and home recording. It sounds
cool. great. It’s really awesome. I still do it sometimes when
I remember you telling me about I record. That’s how I started recording. I probably

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laying on your bed playing guitar started recording before I started playing music. My
solos really, really stoned. parents gave me a synthesizer in the early ‘80s.
I’m neither going to avow or disavow the statement. Wait, stop!
Now that you have a Ph.D. Radio Shack manufactured a synthesizer, the Moog. In
the early ‘80s. It’s like the best synthesizer ever. The
I’m just being clever. Yeah. Yes, yes. I’ll fess up to many
Moog [Realistic Concertmate] MG-1. Concertmate was
On another plane. I’m going to skip
l
uh metaphysical guitar playing experiences in my life.
Radio Shack’s brand of keyboards.
ai
back in history a little bit, way back. There’s a Radio Shack SK-1 copy
What was the origin of your 4- [Realistic Concertmate-500] back
tracking and 8-tracking and stuff? there that Casio made.
Was it just necessity? Recording your Radio Shack was owned by this corporation Tandy. Radio
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by Larry Crane music and your friend’s music? Shack would have their version of all of their products,
Okay, I can easily answer the necessity thing, and then including synthesizers. But actually, that wasn’t just a
I’ll go into the other thing. For necessity no. it was knock-off. It was made by Moog for Radio Shack.
the fact that we hated the sound of stuff that came Anyway, my parents bought it for me for my birthday.
out of commercial studios. Like the idea of going into There was a secondhand one. I really desired it as a
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a place and having them make you sound different child, my whole childhood. I started to record with
from the way you felt you sounded, which felt like it that and the boom box. That developed over some
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was the case at the time. years to me starting to pick up on 4-track. At the
Like ‘80s music and stuff? same time, all of my friends I grew up with and
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Their music was so intricate. It’s really catchy. It’s Yeah, ‘80s music. This was the ‘80s. Number one, that started to play music with, I grew up in a small town
amazing. didn’t appeal to The Apples or my friends in the in Louisiana called Ruston. Some of my friends that I
So, I went and listened to your album. Elephant 6 Collective. We wanted to make our own ended up forming the Elephant 6 Collective with, we
You were coming through town. The sounds. If you’re an artist, you don’t go somewhere would trade cassettes and do boom-box recordings
Apples in Stereo came and played at else and you’re like, “Eh, I’d like to paint a face there. back and forth. I think I was the first one to do
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Mt. Tabor Theater, which is now Can you paint a face for me?” They’re like, “Eh, is this multitracking like that, so mine were slightly more
known as QuarterWorld. like it?” You’re like, “Nope! It’s photorealistic. I was elaborate. It would have a guitar and also a guitar
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Is it a video arcade? thinking more primitive.” That’s what going to a solo or something like that. It was crap, but it would
It’s a really fun video arcade. studio felt like. have two things instead of just one thing. Where was
It wasn’t a video arcade when I played there! That is the “Watercolors, please.” I going with all of that? Okay, flashing forward some
true tragedy of the situation.
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Yeah, exactly. So, I think it wasn’t out of necessity. It years, there was this guitar store in Ruston. They had
We sat outside and did an interview at a was aesthetic choice plus necessity, because we were like a demo 4-track. The 4-track had like a demo tape.
picnic table right outside. all so broke. But that didn’t matter. I started recording It was a Fostex X-15 4-track, which is a really great
Yeah, that’s right. when I was probably in 6th grade. I figured out what sounding tape machine and also mic preamp. The
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many people of our age figured out. You used to be demo had some band for Fostex playing a 4-channel
 song, so it’s like here’s the drums, here’s the guitar, clock, and do they care who we are? to use a patch bay. He taught me how to use a tape
here’s the bass, and you could sit there and mix it in Are they going to be actively machine with more than eight tracks. He taught me
the guitar store. It felt so magical to do that. My engaged?” The first guy I ever went to how to use a compressor. It was incredible. Condenser
guitar teacher turned me on to the fact that you could the studio with was drunk and mics, stuff like that. His studio [Studio .45] was a very
rent the 4-track for $5 a day. couldn’t find my backing vocal part non-slick studio. It was completely vintage. It was
What? over and over. “Try it again!” And he really cool. We recorded to an MCI 24-track. But we
But if you rented it on Friday before closing at night, was drinking wine coolers. It gives also sync’d up my 1/2-inch 8-track Atari with SMPTE,
you’re basically renting it for Saturday, but they’re you an idea of the decade this might the same one that Martyn [Leaper, The Minders] has.
closed on Sunday, so you didn’t have to turn it in until have been. I would go home with a rough mix on that and the
Monday. So, you could have the 4-track Friday Oh, that sounds great! Wine coolers. SMPTE track, which is inconvenient though, because
through Monday for $5. 1985. you had to leave a track between the SMPTE tracks
That’s pretty much an album session That’s awesome. No, but you’re right. I guess the thing and the other tracks.
right there. is that a studio’s a great thing for a band to go into It’d make that weird noise.
It was awesome. I went with my late friend Bill Doss and rock the fuck out for three days like Black Does everybody know what SMPTE is? Okay, with tape
[The Olivia Tremor Control], who’s one of my best Sabbath, MC5, the Velvet Underground, or something. machines you can print this code to the tape
friends and bandmate; a lifelong musical bandmate. You make a great record where you’re capturing your machine. It’s kind of like MIDI. It’s kind of like a
We went to Haymaker Guitars, and we rented the 4- band. The recording is done in a way where you’re not rhythmic-sounding fax machine code if you were to
track for the weekend. We went over to my high trying to achieve any sort of industry-style recording. listen to it.

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school, because it was the only place I knew that was Instead, you’re recording with people who also don’t It sounds awful.
private, because I didn’t want other people around. know what they’re doing. It’s very low rent. You get Yeah, it sounds awful, terrible. But the point is that you
This was the outdoor bus stop at the high school. I these fucking awesome records out of that. That’s a could use this code and send it to some master
had noticed that the outdoor bus stop had an great way to use a studio. I’m not dissing recording control box that would be hooked up to all of your
electricity plug. I’d always fantasized about going studios. It’s awesome. If you’re going to record in a tape machines, and it would be like the clock. It

)
there and plugging in my guitar and playing really studio, you rock the fuck out and make a lot of noise. would be running all the tape machines off the clock.
loud, just blowing away all the kids at high school. I remember interviewing you, and you The tapes would have this code on them, and it would

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They’d go like, “What is that noise?!” In fact, I did said, “I want things to be my way.” track the code and keep the machines together. It
that once. I did a book report for my freshman English Then the next record [Tone Soul really didn’t work that great, but people have been
class. I read the autobiography, but my book report Evolution] you made with Mike doing it since the ‘60s or something like that. I think

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was I went and played [Jimi Hendrix’s] “Purple Haze,” Deming [Tape Op #45], right? The Beatles developed something like that on Sgt.
and I had a dashiki and shit, so I did get to live out Well, there were two things about that. One is I started Pepper’s where they had two four-tracks going or
that fantasy too. to record for my friends like with Jeff [Mangum] and something like that.
No one shot video, huh? Neutral Milk Hotel and stuff. Also, I didn’t know how There’s a certain way to synchronize the
No, I don’t think so. That was before video. So, we went to use all the equipment like compressors and stuff. motors.
and recorded a song at the bus stop at my school. It Yeah, you’re totally right, that’s what it is. You override
was my first 4-track recording experience. I spent the
l
And Mike Deming had put out an album with Lilys,
Better Can’t Make Your Life Better. It was the greatest the internal oscillator. That’s what it’s doing.
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whole weekend working on it. It was very elaborate. I sounding modern record I’d ever heard. It was This clock is controlling the capstan
already knew how to ping-pong and stuff, because I’d incredible. At that time, it was the only record that motor, which is a little metal thing
figured it out on the boom box. It had all these pianos came out that authentically sounded like a classic that spins, and the pinch roller holds
and harmonized lead guitars and harmonies. It was a record. It’s all high-fidelity and stuff. I needed to the tape against it and keeps
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very, very pretentious song. It was pretty great, I learn more about recording. I’d always taught myself everything on track. You’ll see, if you
think. That was my first recording, and my first song from childhood. So, I would use compressors and ever have to lock two tape decks
I ever wrote. I’ve always been recording. It’s just part stuff, but I was just doing it by feel. I didn’t really together using SMPTE timecode,
of what I did. I’ve always seen it as part of the know what the knobs were doing. I just closed my you’ll see one will have to catch up
songwriting process for me. Songwriting and eyes and twiddled the knobs. I still do that, but now with the other one, so you’ll have to
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recording kind of go together. That’s my instrument. I know what I’m hearing. I would look at the red light have some extra time at the
Just like you might write a song on guitar, and and just be like, “it’s flashing. That’s good.” But it’s beginning of the song when you hit
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obviously you’re going to play it on the guitar. I can not always good on the compressor! record and play or whatever. You’ll
write a song, and I’m going to play it on the recorder. Some devices. watch the two tapes go back and forth
(a

It worked out. That’s why I’ve always wanted to home It’s usually the red light flashing is good. Unless it’s your and finally catch up.
record, whether it’s a 4-track or whatever. To be in computer. Then it’s bad. Yeah. Tape machines are really different too, because the
control of it, it’s like, are you going to tell someone I thought that was interesting too that tape machine runs at a slightly different speed
else to paint your painting or play guitar? But that you’d taken a different path to just depending on where in the reel you are. If you’re at
doesn’t apply to you! You are the most amazing audio explore working and collaborating the beginning of the reel, one side has a lot of tape
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engineer, and I would tell you to paint my painting with someone like Mike Deming. on it and one side doesn’t, then one side is being
any day. Well, Mike’s a recording genius. He’s incredible. I needed dragged and the other side is really free to spin.
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I mean, I understand. It’s like when, we to learn some of the stuff that he knew. Right after Unless the tape machine’s really awesomely
write about this a lot in the magazine that, I went and recorded with The Olivia Tremor calibrated, and you keep it calibrated all the time, it
too. If you hire a studio and go in and Control. We were recording Tone Soul Evolution, the runs slightly differently from different parts of the
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you haven’t done the preproduction Apples album, and I recorded In the Aeroplane Over tape on each machine, and then you’re trying to sync
part of saying, “Is this the right the Sea, and I recorded [The Minders’] Hooray for up two or more machines like that. It’s pretty
person to work with our band? Does Tuesday right after that. I needed to be able to get awesome. I would take the tapes home and do
this person understand our music? Is the skills to pull that off. Just knowing how to hook overdubs on the 8-track, and then we’d take them to
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this person going to be punching the things up and using a patch bay. He taught me how Michael’s studio and SMPTE it up with his 24-track and
52/Tape Op#155/R. Schneider/(continued on page 53
 dump the tracks over there. It worked out great, it. It looked like a terminal interface. It was really cool magnetic thing. Touching tape and interacting with it
actually. He was really good at doing that stuff too. and felt really futuristic. That was really awesome too. in all these different ways. You’re feeling it and taping
That was a cool experience. Besides that, going to Mike’s studio was the first time it and cutting it and listening back to it. It’s a very
He’s a good technician. that I’d ever been to a non-Japanese Cornelius crazy organic process. It felt really mystical. I really love
Yeah, he’s great. He’s like an audio guru for me. At the studio. working with tape machines. That’s awesome.
time, I really needed him too. It was great. I did want I forgot about that record! So, in the And the proof’s in the pudding. A lot of
to do it my way, but I had to learn how to do it my middle of that you’re learning stuff those records are still fun to listen to.
way. at Mike’s and making your record. A I think you did okay.
I essentially did the same path working 4-track Neutral Milk Hotel record Thanks dude. I’m working on it.
with John Baccigaluppi. He’s my gets made, is that right? The one thing I thought was really
partner in Tape Op. We’d make records Yes, that’s right. interesting was earlier, we were
together, and he was the producer People are still kind of freaking out talking with The Minders, getting
and engineer. He’d be like, “Okay, about it. ready to run through the sound
we’re going to use this condenser mic Yeah, I guess so. We were trying to make a great album. check and stuff. They were like,
on the vocal.” “What’s that?” I I’m glad that other people thought so. That’s cool. “Should we play ‘Hooray for
learned all these things by hanging I think a lot of people did. What do you Tuesday’?”
out and watching. think it is about the presentation If you play “Hooray for Tuesday,” can I play with you?
Yeah. You learn to fetishize the right stuff, like Universal that you helped bring to that too out Are there enough guitars? I played guitar on it, one

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Audio and Neumann. I learned to fetishize that before of Jeff’s vision? of the guitars.
they were companies that you could buy their gear For On Avery Island or In the Aeroplane Over the Sea? We’ll throw something together. It’s a
again. Both of them really, to me. short song, but at the end there’s this
True. Certain things sounded better On Avery Island we recorded on a 4-track reel-to-reel. So, kind of magical sound collage thing
than others. I had the 8-track at the time, but Jeff had always that goes into it. I think the thing

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Yeah, that’s right. You learn what the true junky gear is. recorded on 4-track cassette. We were all really that kept me thinking about it is
That’s the most important thing to pick up from other worried about being slick, but he was worried about that when people say, “Oh, this was

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musicians. All of culture is telling you what the cool being slick, and he’d only recorded on 4-track. So, I done at someone’s house. It’s a
professional gear is and what the fancy vintage gear was thinking, “Well, let’s use a reel-to-reel, but it’s homemade production.” You think
is, but there’s nobody out there, besides just other still 4-tracks. You can be limited to using the same that it’s all bare bones. There’s no

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musicians and recording people, to tell you what the number of tracks as you were using before.” He’d filagree and you’re just trying to
really awesome shitty gear is. Because that’s what you record on his 4-track cassette and mix it to a regular bash it out. This is not.
want to populate your studio with, if you want to stereo cassette deck. Then you could take that and It’s the opposite! It’s like you have time to do whatever
have a cool studio. stick it right back into a 4-track. You had two tracks you want to do if you’re willing to tolerate that it
Yeah, if you don’t have a ton of money. with your mixdown and so on. So, we did that with might be lo-fi. The more things you put on there the
Well anyway. And then you want to build it up to have the album. I think that we mixed it to stereo DAT. murkier they sound. Also, that’s really all that there is
awesome gear that is never quite as good as your
l
That’s what I did with Fun Trick Noisemaker too. Maybe to it. I can’t see any other reason you wouldn’t want
ai
really shitty gear was. we did that with Dusk at Cubist Castle. I can’t to do it, unless you want crystal clarity. Like Jeff
It’s kind of a strange path, doing that. I remember. I recorded to a stereo submix and then put Lynne [Tape Op #92] recording on a 4-track cassette
can attest to that with this whole it back on two tracks of 8-track. But by the time we machine, he’s like really awesome in the studio! I
building full of junk here. were recording In the Aeroplane Over the Sea and don’t really want to hear him on the 4-track. Actually,
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That’s right. Your gear selection is like the most Hooray for Tuesday, I had two 8-tracks in the studio. I do, I want to hear Jeff Lynne on a 4-track. Actually,
amazing. Your rack and your console and stuff are so I could mix from one 8-track down to 4-tracks on the I have! The Idle Race.
cool. It’s amazing. other, so I had a stereo mix of all of the instruments From way back.
I mean, this is 20-some odd years at except mono drums and a mono bass track of its own. Yeah. That was Jeff Lynne’s ‘60s band before he joined
sorting stuff out and figuring out Then you have four more tracks, and that’s like having The Move.
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what I don’t like. a 4-track. Then you can do all of that infinite ping- It was probably a 4-track studio.
Just looking around the room, there’s all these ponging and stuff on that. It sounded really awesome. It was definitely 4-track. Well, I don’t know what it was,
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synthesizers and organs and cool things to play. Oh That was my peak, I think, of my awesome but it sounds like it. That’s pretty good too. Okay.
my god. I love your studio, Larry. engineering, having the two 8-tracks and bouncing Let’s get Jeff Lynne here to come in. Can we do that?
(a

Did you ever go to a professional studio I’ll call him and see what he’s doing.
between them. I think on production I improved from
in the later ‘80s? You’d walk in, and You talk about this stuff and being in
there. I was in total control of those tape machines.
there would be no instruments in control, but did you ever think of it
They were like part of me. It felt really good to do that
there in most places. It’d look like a kind of thing. as limitations too? Like, “Oh, but I
dentist’s office. No instruments. You really knew what you were going to could have 16-tracks.”
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Maybe a piano if you’re lucky. get from certain things, how hot you Then I bought a 16-track. Okay, and that’s a funny story.
I actually never went to a professional studio until I printed, what you would get. We had the two 8-tracks going, and I saved up the
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went to Mike’s studio. I’d never been inside a That’s right. I knew exactly how to adjust the inputs on recording budget for our album The Discovery of a
recording studio. Wait, that’s not true. I went to both of them. I’d splice tape. So, for The Minders, World Inside the Moone, the Apples’ [fourth] album.
Japan to record with Cornelius [Tape Op #69] on Hooray for Tuesday, there’s a lot of tape splicing going When we would get our budgets from Spin Art, the
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Fantasma. They had this really awesome studio where into that on every song. Like the kind of editing you label that we were on, we would just buy new gear.
they had a digital tape machine. It was the first time do on a computer now. Not exactly the kind. The studio was our practice space too. It was our
I’d ever recorded on digital. Recording there, it must A razor blade. band’s studio. Some people lived there, like Jim
have been a Fairlight or something like that, this old- Yeah. And that felt really good too, because you’re McIntyre lived there. When we would do recording
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school computer terminal. This guy was programming touching the tape, and it’s magnetic, and you’re a projects, it would just pay for all those costs. We’d
R. Schneider/(continued on page 54)/Tape Op#155/53
 have space, Jim’s home, and everything was just paid gear I owned. That was a great tape machine. We Speaking of more people you meet along
for. The point is that I’d take the entire recording started recording on it. The very first track I printed the road.
budget and buy gear. I’d seen in this Pro Audio on it was a drum track. No, it was bass. I wanted to He’s the best.
Marketplace magazine – there was this zine that used check, because I heard it was really good for bass. I That was the history here too. We
to come out maybe it was every month. It was recorded a bass at 15 ips, and god it sounded so bought a tape deck, and then we had
classified ads, but it was like an international audio good! Oh man, I just knew it was a great decision. The to keep buying these little relays and
thing. I bought my Neumann from it from Mark Linett tape machine sounded great. However, it had a flaw, learn how to clean the relays
[Tape Op #47, #146], Brian Wilson’s engineer. which I discovered on the third day of using it. It’s internally with this tiny file, and
Oh my god. that every third day that you use the tape machine, then spray stuff on them and put
Yes! So, you’d get Pro Audio Marketplace, and you’d be it blows out all of the diodes in the transport them back in. They’d be sparking and
flipping through. Like, “Oh my god, an LA-3A!” Flip mechanism, because the tape machine has got stuff when you were playing tape
and you’d be like, “Oh my god, that patch bay!” TT motors that are turning the tape machine, and it’s an back. It was crazy.
cables or whatever. It was like hundreds and hundreds earlier tape machine, so they hadn’t really nailed this That does sound crazy!
of things. The thing is that it sounds so obvious and down yet. The 2-inch tape is very, very heavy. After a It was nerve-wracking. Some of the
unnecessary with the internet, but there was nothing couple of days, it’s just like, “I’m done!” All the diodes older gear, especially that’s been
like it without the internet. How are you going to do that are antique electronics would blow out. There around for a while, things are
something like that? How are you going to do was an audio repair place in Denver that came in and breaking. It’s so fun to have the track
anything without the internet? You have a zine. That’s fixed it, but they were like, “This is going to keep width of a 16-track, 2-inch tape deck.

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what they did. happening. You’re going to have to learn to fix it It’s beautiful.
That’s where we got the console and the yourself.” So, it was really lucky that there was this It sounds incredible. It’s its own sound.
tape deck in the first iteration of electronics store right around the corner from our But when clients are sitting there and
Jackpot!. It was from that zine. studio. The studio was in this fairly old run-down it’s not working...
They had a 16-track in L.A. that some studio was selling. business district in Denver that I think now is all See, that’s the difference. I never had clients.

)
It was an Ampex MM 1200. The MM 1200 is a classic condos. But there was this old store that had been Well, you had friends.
tape machine. It’s classically fat. It’s actually really, there since like 1920. Not only had it been there since At that point I wasn’t even recording other friends.

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really heavy, and really hard for even four people to 1920, but it had backstock going back to 1920! You We were just doing our thing. That was cool. It was
lift it, but it’s classically one of the warmest, grainiest could get oscilloscopes and stuff, very, very old gear. fine for me. You had a studio. That’s much more
tape machines. I saw that it was available, and we Literally you could get electronics from any era, just stressful. Well, it’s not stressful. It’s a learning

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could spend our entire recording budget and buy it. in this old storeroom. It was before the internet, but experience. It’s maybe mildly stressful when you
So, we bought this 16-track tape machine from 1973 I’m sure when the internet happened, they sold have the greatest drum sound and then the tape
or something like that. Some weeks later it came. It everything in one day. Eventually we started to buy machine physically blows up. It would make a loud
arrived at our studio. Our studio was in like an them out of their diodes. I bought all of their old- pop. The tape machine would go, “Boom!” And
abandoned building, so the front of the studio was all stock diodes, so then I had to start finding other you’d hear it wind down.
boarded up with graffiti and stuff. You had to enter places in Denver. Then I had to learn how to replace
l Oh yeah. Last year I went to a studio in
through the alley. The alley was a little parking lot it with other diodes. The whole thing was a L.A. to make a record, and the tape
ai
that was fenced in, and there was a duplex that we nightmare. In the meantime, I had to learn about deck stopped rewinding. I had to keep
shared it with. That’s where The Minders lived. We had electronics. In learning about electronics, I started going into the machine room and
that little back area, that parking lot. It was our little learning about mathematics and studying it on my spinning the reel a little by hand,
area, and we had this community. This community own. Then I went to graduate school a few years ago, like you’re a DJ.
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was closed off from the rest of the world, because in and last week I defended my Ph.D. dissertation, so it It has to be this perfect balance. A tape machine is a
the front it looked like an abandoned building, and in turned out to be okay that the tape machine was beautiful machine. It’s like when you tune a guitar. Do
the back, it was a fenced-in little area we had. It was breaking down all the time! But it was really good any of you play guitar? If you tune a guitar so that an
really beautiful and magical. too, because we had the two 8-tracks, and we were E chord sounds good, it’s like, “Oh, it sounds
This is in Denver, [Colorado]? recording two records, the Apples were recording. We beautiful.” Then you play a G chord, and you’re like,
)

This is in Denver. While we were recording Hooray for were recording two records at the same time. On the “Oh, the B string’s out of tune! Okay, I’ll tweak it. Now
Tuesday, In the Aeroplane Over the Sea, and [The Olivia day the tape machine would work, I’d record on the it sounds really good.” Then you play a D chord, and
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Tremor Control’s] Dusk at Cubist Castle and Black 16-track, The Discovery of a World Inside the Moone. On one of the strings is terribly out of tune. You can tune
Foliage, and I can’t even remember what other stuff I the 8-tracks we would record Her Wallpaper Reverie the guitar and get it to where nothing sounds perfect,
(a

worked on. A lot of albums. It was really amazing. on the off-days, so we had two things going at the but all the chords sound pretty good. That’s how you
Martyn was recording all of his stuff. In any event, we same time. Because the tape machine was broken so play guitar. You get it to that stage, and it sounds
had to bring the tape machine in through the alley much, it took two years to record The Discovery of a pretty good, but it’s not perfect. The nature of the
and to the back of the studio, because it was the only World Inside the Moone, whereas it took like a year guitar, the physical nature of the vibrating strings and
entrance to the studio. The tape machine came, and or less to record Her Wallpaper Reverie, so it turned such, it’s such that the mathematics won’t line up.
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you know how in old cartoons what it might look like out that came out first. It was cool. It was still Yeah, it’s impossible for a just intonation instrument
if you mail ordered a rhinoceros? What it would come productive. Then some years later, Jim McIntyre like a guitar to ever be perfectly in tune, so you just
aa

in? It would come in a huge crate, and you’d open it ended up springing for the repair. You could send in have to make it a balance. Apparently, a tape machine
with a crowbar, and the rhinoceros comes charging your tape transport block, and there’s an upgrade is also tuned to just intonation. You can never quite
out. Or maybe it’s a boxing kangaroo or whatever. you can do. The ATR, Audio Services thing. Mike get all those oscillating things to tune up. They’re just
Anyway, it was a huge crate, an old-school wooden Spitz did it. He adjusted it and sent it back. It
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like guitar strings. There’s something of a balance.

crate. We opened it up and there was this beautiful worked, but then we basically stopped having a Did you eventually start not using tape,
tape machine. That was probably the first studio right after that. So, I gave the tape machine like for later recordings? Did you
professional, maybe the only professional piece of to Bryce Goggin [Tape Op #40]. start using Pro Tools along the way?
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54/Tape Op#155/R. Schneider/(continued on page 55

I just use whatever. Sometimes I’ll record on a boom box He’d just recorded over a huge bit of it. This is like Let’s just explain this really fast for people who have not
and sometimes I’ll record on a computer. The elaborate horn arrangements and guitars and sound done it so we can.
computer’s really easy to record on. I like to use 4- effects, and this huge production. We’d done all the We can go in the other room and do a
track. I just recorded a 7-inch with my band Air-sea SMPTE stuff and gotten it bounced off of 8-tracks demo.
Dolphin on 4-track, and it’s great. I love working on successfully. So, Mike was like, “No problem.” He knew Can we do that? So, if you want to splice tape, you’ve
4-track. I think that when I record with the Apples, a guy four hours away in Massachusetts. We were got to splice it at a place where there’s a sibilance or
we usually record off of tape, going live off the repro recording in Hartford, Connecticut. If you’re driving like a white noise kind of sound or something, so like
head into the computer. So, the basic tracks are through Hartford, as you’re going through the a kick drum or a snare drum. Something that doesn’t
recorded on tape. I think it just depends on the sound downtown area, on the left hand side of the highway, really have a pitch to it. It’s possible that there will
you want out of the project or whatever. Let’s see, if you’re going north, away from the city, there’s a big- be an artifact at the tape splice, but the artifact is not
when was this? 1998 or ‘99. I had an oscilloscope ass old factory. It’s a huge old factory. It has a spire like a computer splice. When you do a splice on the
between the speakers where you’d now have a on the top, like a painted sort of spire that might be computer, if it doesn’t work out, there’s this horrible
computer monitor, so I’d watch the oscilloscope on a mosque or Freemason’s sort of temple or tick. The tick is in the high end above the music. It’s
pattern and stuff. It’s very psychedelic to look at an something like that. That’s where we recorded that so present. The tape machine’s not like that. When
oscilloscope and watch your music go through it. It’s album. It was a Colt .45 factory. you cut tape and paste it back together, the magnetic
basically like a galaxy that’s flowing and ebbing. It’s That’s where they made guns, and they particles are literally reaching across the gap where
doing it with your music, and you’re so in touch with made music. the tape was. It’s meant to mend itself, just like your
your music. You’re hearing this thing and seeing this Yeah. So, we drove to Massachusetts. He knew a guy who skin mends itself when you get cut. We’re not talking

co
thing, and it looks like retro vector graphics or had a Fairlight computer in his studio. The Fairlight about just cutting something and it’s done. We’re
something like that. It’s very, very cool. Anyway, I got was like an early version of Pro Tools, going back to talking about putting something together and it
a computer, and I put it off to the side. Of course, like the late ‘70s. This was incredible. There was heals. You can hear that.
there’s the oscilloscope there, because that’s where another passage of music that had the same It’ll sound better the next day.
that would go, and I felt uncomfortable with the instrumentation on the tape. I don’t know how he did It will. It’ll sound better. You don’t hear the same kind

)
computer. I had previously been under the belief that this, because we didn’t record to a click track or of edit mistakes that you would with a tape machine.
digital recording would suck the soul out of the music anything, but he dumped all 24 tracks of the other Even so, there’s some possibility of their being a little

ot
in some sort of spiritual way. That’s totally not true. passage into his computer, and the computer was also sound or something like that. If you are going to have
The soul is from you and your instruments. It’s not hooked up with SMPTE and stuff to the tape machine, that you want to be on a kick drum or something
from your computer or the recording device. Any so the computer was running the tape machine. I don’t where it’s already got that kind of a timbre. So, you

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recording device is fine. Do you have to paint onto know how he did this, but he punched in all the tracks want to splice, find a kick drum hit or something with
canvas, or can you do it on wood? It doesn’t matter. onto the tape machine, punched them in into the gap a sharp attack, quick sound, and then you turn off the
But I got a computer, and it was really, really useful. that had been recorded over, and it lined up perfectly. tape machine’s motors if you have the play head
When we were transferring between the 8-tracks (this I don’t know how he did it, but this was like a miracle. engaged. You’re just rocking the tape back and forth
is how I use the computer in my studio). I would mix I was sold. Also, Park Peters was an engineer in Denver like a DJ scratching records. It feels so good to do it.
down from the 8-track to the other 8-track, but I’d who used to master all of our records, and he taught It makes everyone in the room laugh.
mix down to four tracks. Then I’d mix those into the
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me about mastering. He also would use a computer to It’s a very funny sound. Then you locate that point and
ai
computer so I could edit them. Then I’d put them to master. I was pro-computer from the start. You can take this little blue grease pencil, and you mark right
the other 8-track and keep recording. The computer also do edits and crossfades, very experimental stuff across. You draw on the record head. Your tape is on
was like this middle place. I didn’t trust that a hard with the computer that you can do to some degree the head, and you can see the magnets on the record
drive would be a physical object that could play with a tape machine, but a lot of it you can’t do. You head lining up, going down like a guitar pickup. You
gm

music in the same linear, time sort of way that I felt can’t with the tape machine take the bass drum and draw a line right down there, and that’s where you’re
like I wanted to hear it. I wanted to see something move it to a different part of the song and onto a going to splice it, right down that blue line.
spinning when I heard music. A record, a tape, different track. You can’t do that with the tape Make sure you’ve selected the same
something. A CD. I just wanted to imagine there machine. That’s the problem. You could move head you’re making the mark on. If
was something. I mean, a hard drive’s spinning too, everything around just like you were moving around you’re listening from the repro head
)

but you can’t see it. It’s very abstract. What’s going pieces of a game with a computer. It’s a different and you mark it on the other head...
on in there? thing, and it’s really awesome. They’re both awesome. I did that once. Cut off the beginning
t

And then it breaks. With a computer, you can’t take a razor blade and cut of the song.
Yeah, and then it breaks. I mean god, recording on it and paste it back together with your hands and So, you splice it two inches later.
(a

computer’s amazing, actually. When we were touch the magnetic material and absorb and somehow Yeah, it just removed the kick drum
recording Tone Soul Evolution at Mike Deming’s interact in an electromagnetic way with your music. downbeat in the beginning of a
studio, he had been wiping some tape clean. Then Even today if I do a real razor blade tape Richmond Fontaine song, for anyone
we put on the tape reel to work on Hilarie [Sidney’s] edit in front of the client, they’re who knows. If anyone ever went back
song. You were playing it earlier, actually. I think it just amazed that you’d even know to the master tape of that...
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was “Silver Chain.” Mike had all the tracks on record, how to do it. It’s like a lost art. Was it good or bad?
because he was cleaning the previous tape. When we It’s really primitive-looking when you do it too. It’s Well, we kept the previous mix. Not the
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went to record, he was looking at the console, not terrifying. one I was trying to clean up the
the tape machine. When he hit record to do the next You’re scrubbing the tape, listening for beginning of.
track, to start it, it was just running and there was the kick drum. Okay, right there. And to wrap up our lesson, the rest you just go by feel.
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no music. We’re sitting there, and it’s like, where’s Mark it with a China pencil, cut it Got some tape? You know what to do with it.
the music? Click, then through the talkback mic, with the razor blade, get the blue Just tape stuff up.
it’s like, “Oh fuck.” tape off, cut the other part, and stick It can look really junky too, like your cut can look kinda
He wiped it out? them together. junky, because you’ve probably used your razor blade
ma

R. Schneider/(continued on page 56)/Tape Op#155/55

 a thousand times. The tape can look all crappy, like necessity in certain ways. Like if you out in the parking lot. We had benches and chairs and
maybe it didn’t go on perfectly. It’s wrinkled like you want that sound, start by getting that would sit on our cars and stuff. Working out the
didn’t wrap a present right, but even so it just sounds sound at the beginning. It’s really harmonies was a very precious memory, us all singing
perfect and beautiful and heals itself. odd to me to sort of apply a patina. those parts together and hearing them come together.
Sometimes. Yeah, I know what you’re saying. But still, you can. Just It was really great. I think that’s one of my favorite
Okay, yeah. This goes back to being able to tolerate low- dump it to a 4-track and it sounds that way. memories of recording that record, just us sitting out
fidelity content in your music. The more low-fidelity I know. I’ve got my 4-track cassette out and being together as friends in the parking lot area
content you can tolerate, the more that you don’t there. We should just start doing that we had behind our studio in the alley. The way
mind hearing the tape splice. that. that I had recorded the drums on the album, I like to
True. The amazing thing about making I love using computers. I really don’t feel like I have a record with a three mic setup usually, so I’d have an
records to me is that meticulous little bias toward any particular recording medium. You use overhead mic, one mic on the snare drum, and one mic
creative things can be done with a the thing that gets the sound you want if you want on the bass drum. I have a fancy trick on the snare
computer. If I do a little tape splice to have a particular sound. If you just want to have drum. I’m going to tell you how I record the snare
and it sounds a little wacky, someone something that feels good, you use whatever’s there. drum. This is the way I’ve always recorded the snare
might go, “I dunno man. I think you Did you have time to record working on drum, and it’s the best snare drum sound. I worked it
ruined the record.” Then if you go a Ph.D.? Have you had time to play out on one of the first Apples 7-inches I did. The first
listen to “Strawberry Fields Forever” music? time I used a 4-track reel-to-reel, I discovered this
by The Beatles, it’s got one of the I have a band with some friends of mine in Atlanta great way to mic the snare drum. You use a [Shure]

co
weirdest most egregious tape splices. called Air-sea Dolphin. We’ve recorded a couple of 7- SM57, and you point it not at the top or the bottom of
You hear that splice. inches. I’ve recorded a 7-inch with my friend Will Hart the snare drum, which are the usual places, but like
You’ve heard that splice your entire [The Olivia Tremor Control]. That’s the only thing I’ve straight at the side. The side of the snare drum’s there,
life. You might not hear it anymore, really done in the last few years. It’s been hard. There and you put the mic there, just far away enough so that
because you’re used to it. was just no time with graduate school. For four years the snare doesn’t hit it every time the drummer hits it.

)
It’s its own effect. You can do a splice because you want I didn’t play guitar at all. I didn’t even think about it. You put it coming from the outside of the set, so it’s
that effect. When we were doing “Hooray for I wasn’t able to do a lot of mathematics by being a pointing inward at the drummer, and below the hi-hat,

ot
Tuesday”, we were wanting to hear the splice musician-type, and I was just so glad to be spending so the cone of sound is coming down. It’s the perfect
sometimes. You want to hear it. That’s the tape splice all my time doing mathematics. It was awesome. But snare drum sound. If you want the perfect snare drum
effect. You get it by splicing tape. after some years, I started to feel not complete or sound then do that. Also, it’s a great drum sound. The

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There’s no other way. something like that. My friend John Ferguson and I whole drum set comes through the snare drum, and it
That’s right. But you were asking about the computer went on tour opening for Neutral Milk Hotel a few sounds really great that way. Then I’d have another mic
thing. I’ve always been pro-computer, but I also have years ago, the same one that The Minders opened up hanging down from above that would be probably a
this like quasi-metaphysical belief that using digital for. In fact, we played a show in Seattle together with Neumann U 87. I put it at eye level for the drummer,
will suck the soul out of the music if that’s the final The Minders. My fingers were like… I had no facing directly at the kick drum pedal. That to me is the
end place for it, which I don’t believe at all. It’s total callouses. I was playing acoustic guitar, and my perfect place for the overhead. It’s at eye level for the
bullshit. But it doesn’t matter what you make music
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fingers had these gashes every night. I’d show them drummer, or slightly higher if they’re wild like Jeremy
ai
onto. What matters is the music you’re making and off to the audience and everybody would gasp! So, I [Barnes] in Neutral Milk Hotel, and they’re going to
the sounds you’re making. It doesn’t matter if you use didn’t let that happen again. I mean, I didn’t practice. whack your U 87. By the way, my U 87 has tons of nicks
a shitty mic or what you’re recording onto. If you I thought about what I would play a little bit. I made in it, and up to some point, I think they made it sound
want it to sound hi-fi, then record on hi-fi gear, but a list of songs in advance that I can choose from. But better. Every time I recognized it got hit by a drummer,
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the thing that matters is that you’re putting down an no, I don’t like to practice for shows. I think that it would sound better, but then the insides of it
exciting, interesting, and fun vibe that feels like every time I play a song I want to just feel it and be shattered like an egg. My friend Tyler [Petito] at Acorn
something to you and you think your friends will like inside it. I’m not too worried about being good. I Amplifiers in Atlanta, who’s this electronics genius that
it or that it’ll resonate with them. That’s all that reallymean, I’m sorry. I want to be good. I’m just not I know, he pieced it together, glued it together, and
matters. Nothing else really matters about recording worried about getting anything right, that’s all I’m fixed the insides of the microphone, because it had
)

besides that. You can do that with a handheld tape saying. I wrote the song, my fingers know how to play shattered like an egg. Now it works again!
deck. That’s great, like the flat old-school kind. it, I hope. I always like to play songs that I either Yikes.
t

Anything’s great to record. You can make a great- haven’t played ever or for a long time, so I’ll probably But anyway, that’s my sound for recording an overhead.
sounding recording that’s indistinguishable from one try to throw in some songs, but I’m not sure. We’ll see A single overhead hanging down, diaphragm at eye
(a

that’s made really fancy, because everybody assumes how it goes as we go along. Thank you so much for level and pointing at the kick drum pedal. It’s low
you went to all this trouble to make a great recording having me here! enough that…
sound like that even if it’s recorded on a handheld Just one last question. Since we do have Directly in front of the drummer’s face?
tape deck or whatever. The Minders playing here as well, do Directly in front of their face, pointing at the kick drum
I get these weird things where I’ll be you have any memories or thoughts pedal, wherever that is. The thing is that the cymbals
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mixing with someone, and they or stuff about making that record, are really, really loud on the overhead, but when you
recorded everything really pristine Hooray for Tuesday? hit a cymbal, it’s not just sending the sound out in a
aa

through a computer interface, and We recorded together almost every day for years. I have a sphere. It’s rocking, and it’s kind of sending the sound
then they go, “Can you just do lot of memories. I have “tricky audio things that I did” out in a cone that goes like that. You have this cone
something to kind of lo-fi it up?” I’m type memories, and I have “personal” type memories. like this. There’s a cymbal here and a cymbal there,
always like, “If that’s what you
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We had that parking lot area, and I can remember and the cones are going upward. If you put the mic
wanted, you should have started with going out there to work out harmonies for songs like right there, it’s underneath all the cones of the
that sound!” I get kind of irritated, “Hooray for Tuesday” and other songs on the album out cymbals. What you’re picking up from the cymbals
because I feel like lo-fi is like this in the parking lot, because we shared it. The Minders isn’t this clang or other weird resonances, but you’re
ma

concept of a sound as opposed to a had their house, and we had our studio, so we’d go sit picking up the thing that sounds awesome, that
56/Tape Op#155/R. Schneider/(continued on page 57
 splashy, crashy sound of the cymbals. That’s where I always put the overhead
microphone. Then the kick drum I just point at the front head and angle it a little
bit, put it like an inch away or something like that so that it’s across from the kick
drum pedal, through the drum though. Not stuck inside there. It sounds really
good on the front head. That’s how I’d record it. However, I was still working that
technique out at the time. I hadn’t discovered anything about putting the mic
low, so I had the mic up higher, because conceptually I thought it would get more
of a room sound. The sound of that studio sounds terrible. We had to hang
blankets all over the place and stuff to get it to sound reasonably good.
To gate it.
Yeah, we gated it. The drums on one of the songs on Hooray for Tuesday were really
cymbal heavy. I really wanted the snare drum to pop out like on Sgt. Pepper’s or
something like that. We had this great snare drum sound. The overhead cymbals
were too loud. I took the drum track, and I ran it through two tracks on my
console. I had this Neotek console, a Series III. I still have it. A friend of mine
has it in his studio in Lexington, Kentucky. I ran it through two of the tracks, and
on one of the tracks, I tuned the EQ to the frequency where the cymbals were the
most glaringly crashy and splashy in. And I turned the EQ all the way up, just to

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10. You were hearing this clanging so loud that it was ear-piercing. Then I cut the
other frequencies. Then I put it out of phase, and I brought it in underneath the
snare drum track. You could bring it in to a certain point to where it would
perfectly cancel out the clanging of the cymbals and the snare drum would pop
through. It was magic. It would only happen at a certain point. Phase cancellation

)
is like that. If you went past that point, suddenly the cymbals were all clangy
again. But you could do it perfectly. This is a good trick to do if you need to. Put

ot
the two channels out of phase, boost the undesirable frequency horribly on one
of the channels, and then you just feed it in from zero. Listen carefully, and you’ll
hear the thing you don’t want to hear go away. It’s really cool. And on top of that

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it has this really cool phase-shifty sound that’s kind of psychedelic. So, it’s not
just a good audio trick. It’s actually a cool effect. If you listen to that song on
Hooray for Tuesday, you’ll hear the drums kind of sound like they have a phase
going through it. That’s because I was feeding it in. I felt really clever about that.
In fact, phase cancellation is like this really magical thing.
It’s very mathematical.
A very mathematical thing that’s inside sound. You can take two tracks and have two
l
ai
songs that are totally different songs. But maybe you have some of the same
sound effects. Let me see, no, actually I don’t want to give away my trick. I
haven’t used it yet. Taking it back. I have a cool trick for embedding songs inside
other songs inside other songs and so on. You can combine them in certain ways
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and have them all cancel out to get to the different layers, and it works really
well. r
<elephant6.com>
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Please Support Our Advertisers/Tape Op#155/57

 Next, I set up the LA-320 V2 for male vocals. Both the
Lauten Audio singer and I were impressed with the low mid glow the mic
LA-320 V2 tube condenser mic naturally highlighted. I ran it through a CAPI VP28 preamp
Lauten Audio recently released a revision to their LA-320 [Tape Op #77] and ended up using the high-pass filter at 85
[Tape Op #117] tube microphone. I’m a big Lauten fan and Hz on the pre, disengaging the built-in filter on the mic to
own several of their mics, including the original LA-320 and capture more of the beautiful low end of the singer’s voice.
the Clarion FC-357. Everything they’ve created has a unique We tracked vocals for over two hours and encountered none
personality but fits multiple applications in a studio of the usual suspects such as harsh sibilants, piercing high
environment. This mic is no exception. end, or those over-pronounced EQ curves we sometimes get
Both LA-320s are twin-tone tube microphones, allowing with budget mics and modern reproductions of old-school
switching between the warmth and body of a vintage tube mics. The vocals sounded mix-ready – present, detailed,
microphone and the clarity and presence of a modern tube warm, and forward. I was genuinely impressed with the LA-
microphone. Classic tube microphones were designed to work 320 V2; especially given its friendly price point! -Jacob
with a vintage signal chain that might be hard to come by If I had $1000 to build a starter recording rig, I’d spend
these days, so it is also designed to sound great without one. $699 on this mic, and $299 on an interface. This mic will
API Audio Built with a custom-made Lauten Audio capsule, the mic’s make up for any cheap preamp between your sound source
3122V preamp unique design creates the tone and gentle compression and your hard drive. If you’re looking for a classic-sounding
The API 3122V 2-channel mic preamp is certainly not a associated with classic signal chains. How? The LA-320 V2, like tube mic with a modern edge at a price you can afford, buy
its predecessor, comes with high and low pass filters, a Lauten

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new and revolutionary design, but rather a new version of a a Lauten LA-320 V2. -Ben ($699 street; lautenaudio.com)
tried and true classic, originating in consoles from the late- design I absolutely love! Toggling the filter switches can -Ben Bernstein <benbernsteinmusic.com>
’60s. This preamp circuitry is also in the 3124V 4-channel achieve a variety of sounds that make this mic quite versatile. -Jacob Light <moderntonestudios.com>
preamp, the 500 Series 312 [Tape Op #141], and shares most
of the circuit design with the 312 and 512 series of preamps.
These aren’t simply roll off filters; they work more like tone
switches. Packaged in a sturdy aluminum case – suitable for
Laura Veirs
All of these use the classic API 2520 op-amp and 2503 long term storage or transport – it ships with a power supply, Kaleidoscope Creativity Cards

)
5-pin cable, sturdy shock mount, and a svelte dust cover. Songwriter Laura Veirs has made a number of engaging
output transformer (some with a 3:1 output tap to drop the
I tried the LA-320 V2 in a couple of settings, but mostly for albums over the years, including last year’s Found Light,
output and impedance level, allowing for higher

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tracking a singer-songwriter via a single mic. I have an artist I tracked at my Jackpot! Recording Studio where Veirs co-
gain/different tone). But why do we need yet another
work with regularly where using two mics is problematic – poor produced the album (with composer/instrumentalist Shahzad
version of the same thing? Form factor. The standard 312 and
performance posture and constant moving around to read lyrics Ismaily [Tape Op #151], Kendra Lynn engineering, and mixing
512 preamps are in 500 Series format, and the 3124V is a
– so I decided a one-mic approach was the solution. I set the by Phil Weinrobe). Upon finishing her sessions, Laura

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standard one-space, four-channel rack mount. But if you only
mic far enough back not to block the talent’s line of sight, but generously left us a set of her Kaleidoscope Creativity Cards.
need two channels in a single rack space, the 3122V shares
close enough to keep the vocal and guitar from sounding thin. Intended to help with sparking creativity when writing
all the features of the 3124V and adds a few more. Both of
I asked the artist to perform, put on my headphones and poetry, prose, or music, this 9-inch wide boxed set features
these preamps have output Level knobs (not found on all the
started flipping the high and low-pass filters until I got the three decks; organized into word (red), structure (purple),
500 Series), allowing attenuation to drive the preamp harder,
sound I wanted. The filters were very helpful in sculpting a and inspiration (orange) categories, each containing 48
and buttons for Pad, Polarity reverse, and the 3:1 transformer l
sound I liked, allowing me to get a clear vocal and guitar tone, cards, plus an important “Directions” card (look for it first!).
tap. With only two channels of mic preamps instead of four,
reduce acoustic guitar boominess. I balanced vocal and guitar Shuffle the three decks (keep colors separate), grab a card
the 3122V has a little bit of extra real estate available, so we
ai
levels by using the filters and fine tuning the mic placement. from each deck, use the collected prompts to do your piece
get some bonuses. There are two gloriously retro VU meters
I was performing directly opposite the artist, and the mic “in that sitting,” and then place used cards at the bottoms
instead of smaller 7-segment LED meters, the addition of a
picked up minimal amounts of my acoustic guitar, illustrating of the three decks. Next time, pull the three cards on top and
front panel combo jack for either XLR or high-Z instrument
that this mic has good rear rejection. I then had a chance to start work on a new piece. Note that the structure cards have
input, and a 50 Hz high-pass (HP) filter. While these added
gm

record upright bass with the LA-320 V2. Placing the mic right three prompts geared either towards music, prose, or writing,
features may not be “make or break” additions for some, I
of center just above the bridge gave me a full-bodied tone with to best fit your focus. As Laura describes, “A couple of years
like that they included them on this unit.
clarity and presence, but not muddy or dark. I didn’t use the ago I was struggling to write songs for a new album. I found
Sonically, there aren’t any surprises. Although there have
high-pass filter, but in the right application that could be I couldn’t surprise myself very easily anymore. I wanted to
been minor circuit tweaks over the years, the basic building
useful in helping upright bass cut through a mix, especially if add an element of randomness to my process while also
blocks of this mic preamp go back to the ‘60s. API is known
)

used in tandem with a pickup to capture solid low end. knowing that I thrive on structure.”
for a clear and punchy sound, and the 3122V is no exception.
How is the LA-320 V2 different from the original? I really like My first draw was: “Write as if you are drowning (in water,
The top end and midrange are where it really shines. That is
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my LA-320, but I love the V2. It sounds even richer and looks in love, in darkness, in whatever you like).” – “Use your voice
not saying that the low frequencies are not well represented;
like an expensive mic, inspiring client’s trust in my mic choice. as your only instrument.” – “Feel the boundlessness of your
they absolutely are. Remember, the API sound is a distinctly
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I could rave about Lauten mics all day, so for perspective I own creativity.” My second was: “Look at a map of a place
different character to the lower mid thickness of a vintage
handed the LA-320 V2 off to Jacob Light at Modern Tone that’s meaningful to you. Use place names.” – “Use an
Neve-type preamp – slightly more aggressive, with seemingly
Studios in Lafayette, CA, for his first Lauten experience. -Ben alternate tuning.” – “Push yourself to grow.” The inspiration
faster transient response. When using the 3122V, I found that
Initially I noticed how well built everything is. The mic’s cards all feature quotes from notable writers, such as Ursula
drums and electric guitars particularly benefit, sounding very
body, grill, and metal shock mount are made to last decades. K. Le Guin or Maya Angelou, that reinforce the prompts. I
“in your face.” However, it also shines on acoustic
For acoustic guitar, I put up the mic about a foot away from cannot imagine these cards not pushing anyone out of a rut
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instruments, bringing an immediacy and sheen to the sound.

the guitar, pointing it somewhere between the 12th fret and and into something interesting. The cards’ geometrical, quilt-
I even used it on a classical piano recording with perfect
inspired artwork is by Jessica Poundstone, and with W Mac
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results again, with clarity being the biggest sonic the join (where the neck meets the body). I ran the mic
through a Neve-style preamp, and it sounded phenomenal. I Wood’s design and layout, it’s all clean and fits the tone. For
characteristic. This is not a revolutionary preamp, but it is a
engaged the built-in high-pass filter on the mic and patched any of us, Kaleidoscope Creativity Cards might just be what we
wonderful repackaging of a slightly evolved version of their
in an opto compressor. I love using tube mics on acoustic need! ($20; www.lauraveirs.com) -LC
classic mic preamp design in a new 2-channel form factor. For
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those who don’t have a 500 Series rack or don’t need four guitars, and the LA-320 V2 did not disappoint. The guitar
channels, this is a wonderful option that is the most cost sounded big and full-bodied without being boomy or muddy. Tape Op is made
effective way to get into the classic API preamps, in stereo! I especially enjoyed the detailed high mids and the top-end possible by our
(MSRP $2,195; apiaudio.com) chime, which sounded great with no apparent harshness. advertisers.
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Please support them and tell them

-Kirt Shearer <kbshearer@sbcglobal.net> you saw their ad in Tape Op.
58/Tape Op#155/Gear Reviews/
 death metal vocals? I’m afraid so. Those other compressors
Electric & Company often sounded great as well, but the EC5B managed lots of gain Universal Audio
EC5B limiter reduction with fewer artifacts and arguably more “musicality” Sphere LX modeling mic
I’ve been looking for a one channel, high-end tube than the others. As for sources besides vocals, the EC5B In 2019, I reviewed the Townsend Labs L22 Sphere mic
compressor for a few years – mostly for vocals. When Austin, sounded stellar on kick drum (added weight, perceptually [Tape Op #133] and raved about its versatility and
Texas’, Electric & Company announced the EC5B, their take on louder, and a nice transient shape); intriguing on snare (a little innovation. Universal Audio acquired Townsend Labs in
Universal Audio’s legendary 175B, I was immediately went a long way – barely moving the meters still added weight 2021 and has rebadged the L22 as the Sphere DLX; this
interested. The 175B is a well-loved tube compressor, and and brought up ghost notes); toneful and dramatic on chimey renamed model is nearly identical to the original L22 (the
Electric & Company makes seriously nice gear. I have a pair of clean guitars; and right at home on bass (less “congested” than DLX has a single -20 dB pad rather than the -10 and -20 dB
their EC3 tube preamps [Tape Op #142] and I fucking love them the solid state compressors I was comparing with, and more pads of the L22) and continues to be a powerhouse option
– and I’m on record as barely caring about preamps. growl and character). There are lots of promising paths to take, in the mic modeling arena. UA has also introduced the
First, like the EC3, the EC5B looks and feels great. Huge but while something such as vocals or bass are light work, Sphere LX, which uses the same modeling technology and is
knobs and a handsome faceplate with a big VU meter. With five dialing in sources like guitar or snare can be finicky and doing $500 less expensive than the DLX – perfect for adding the
transformers and six tubes, it’s heavy and runs hot. (Leave an so while tracking carries some risk. But hey, how many of these sounds of an entire world-class mic locker to your collection
empty space above it in your rack!) A detailed user guide is boxes will you own? Commit! for a thousand bucks.
included – no schematics, which would be a nice addition at Finally, I took the EC5B to my friend and chief enabler Jack The Sphere LX uses the same 1-inch dual-diaphragm
this price point – and a Bourns trimpot tool for calibration. The Shirley’s [Tape Op #115] Atomic Garden Studio to get his capsule as its big brother and has an incredibly low self-noise
calibration process seems intimidating, but it’s a piece of cake thoughts. Jack has been through a number of tube of 10 dB. The LX lacks the -20 dB pad of the DLX, so it may
The controls are simple: Input Attenuation, Attack, Release, not be the first choice to try close on a snare drum, but with

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compressors over the years, and he uses an UnFairchild daily.
Output Attenuation (there is no active makeup gain), and a After an hour of compressing sources, he said, “Man, you a maximum handling SPL of 145 dB, you could probably get
sidechain high-pass filter (yes!) with 100 Hz and 200 Hz settings. should buy this.” I did. I’ve been using it regularly since. I tried away with it in front of all but the heaviest hitters. Like the
The Attack can click off to remove the gain reduction circuit, it on kick drum (!) while mixing the new Covet LP, and it original L22 and the DLX, the LX has a 5-pin XLR output and
which lets you use the EC5B as a nice coloration box. Attack sounded great. Most recently, I’ve been tracking lots of Evelyn includes a 5-pin female to dual 3-pin male XLR cable; this is
ranges from a fairly slow 2 ms to a fairly fast 0.1 ms; release times Davis’ beautiful vocals, running a Heiserman H47 FET mic into 10-feet in length compared to the DLX’s 25-feet, so you may

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from an extremely fast 27 ms to a moderate 500 ms. the EC3 and EC5B, both running hot. Basically, rectangles need to extend the LX cable with a couple of mic cables. This
Instead of doing any tests, I just started tracking and mixing coming into Pro Tools. It sounds goddamn great. dual output requires the LX to be recorded to a stereo track

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through the EC5B. Mostly vocals. Tons of vocals. For Oakland’s I don’t have many concerns or complaints. One observation in your DAW, capturing the front and rear diaphragms
No Lights, we wanted a very hot vocal chain, like delicately is that this beast is no joke inside, and I wonder about service simultaneously thus allowing for the pattern of the mic model
playing guitar into a dimed Marshall amp. With a Neumann U in years to come. It’s beautifully built, but there’s a lot going to be changed post-recording. Want to hear how a figure-
47 clone, EC3, Purple Audio MC77 [Tape Op #136], and EC5B all on. I count nine separate circuit boards. I have a couple of eight pattern cuts down the bleed from the side of the mic

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moving the needles pretty good, the result was a super “touch dumb cosmetic gripes: I don’t love the VU meter backlight – when you realize the guitarist was bleeding into the vocal
sensitive” mic that pushed back at Matt O’Brien as he sang. too white – and the numbers on the input and output knobs tracked with the LX? Easy!
Really cool. And with the EC5B sitting on top of a rack next to are so small that they look like dots. I should add that Electric Since the goal is to capture the most realistic possible
me, those big input and output knobs were in easy reach. I & Company founder Mattie Smith has been fantastic with output from both capsules, having a pair of mic preamps that
could quickly and confidently ride the input gain during support, answering my dumb questions with long, detailed
l can be precisely gain matched is important to get the best
dynamic phrases. emails. An expensive piece of gear for sure, but classy as hell out of the Sphere mics. I ran all of my tests with the LX using
What I found was that it was hard to make this compressor and hand-built in the U.S. with love. I suspect it will be on Metric Halo ULN-8 mkIV preamps that have .5 dB precision
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sound bad. Gentle amounts of compression? Yep, great. Hitting every vocal I record for years. I am thrilled. ($2799 street; digital control over their analog inputs. The Sphere LX also
10, 15, 20 dB of gain reduction? Still sounded great, electricandcompany.com) -Scott Evans <antisleep.com> has a “CAL” calibration switch just under the head basket to
controlled, locked in, and sort of pushed forward, I assume
thanks to some added harmonics. You might hear “tube
Infinite Directions enable this mode in conjunction with the Sphere plug-in to
calibrate the rear capsule input level to the front (UA provides
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compressor” and think this unit is a fuzzy vibe machine, but Cards for Creativity very detailed instructions on their Sphere support pages).
no. Its sonics are more subtle and classy. This fun deck of creativity-sparking cards – with inspiration Now that I’ve mentioned the Sphere plug-in, this is a great
Finally, I did do some tests. I started with the “parallel from Brian Eno [Tape Op #85] and Peter Schmidt’s Oblique time to talk more about its integration with the mic
bible,” a Pro Tools session I’ve been keeping up for years. It’s Strategies – was created by Isaac Karns of The Marble Garden hardware; the two are fully designed to work as a system and
one 30-second drum print from a record I worked on, which studio in Cincinnati, Ohio. (See also: Larry’s End Rant this issue, the plug-in is included when the mic is registered using UA’s
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friends and I have smashed into dozens and dozens of his review of Laura Veirs’ cards, and our front cover image latest UA Connect app. The plug-in is available as Apollo DSP
compressors. Do this! It’s fun, and educational to hear what depicting nine images from this deck.) There are 60 cards total, for UA’s Apollo interfaces and satellites, AAX DSP for Avid’s
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sounds cool on its own versus how it sounds in parallel with evenly divided into circles, squares, and triangles – each of Carbon and HDX cards, and is available for native AU, VST,
the original drum track. When I have only one unit I do two which contains one third of a sentence. Together, three cards and AAX versions as part of UA’s recent foray into host
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passes, one for each channel, and that was the case here. Put will form a sentence that can guide you in different directions computer-based processing. Mic models are chosen from the
across drums the EC5B sounds pretty different from all 38 (!) with creative efforts. In general, the triangles seem to represent plug-in, but it offers so much more than just choosing the
of the compressors I have archived – tonally closest to the prompts like sustained waves, voices, or triplets, while the model of microphone. Along with selecting the pattern, you
UnderTone Audio UnFairchild [Tape Op #125] and maybe the circles and squares represent adjectives that can modify or can also choose the mic axis orientation, filtering, and
Drawmer 1978 [#130], but with a compression characteristic describe that prompt. Each basic shape also has a “Glyph variable proximity effect. Where the DLX provides an option
that is its own. Pushed hard with the sidechain filter off, wow. Family” that can represent different prompts, and different to record with the mic capturing from the side of the capsules
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Transients absorbed into the Borg, everything thick and wide, colors are different types of adjectives within a family. For to then be processed as a “stereo” mic, the LX allows for two
instance, the two sentences from the front cover that you
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really interesting and nice – and effective and interesting when mics to be blended from the same source. Using the single LX
blended in parallel with the original drum print. cannot see are, “Watery Triplets Reflected” and “Closed Fuzz As capture on a guitar cabinet, for example, you could then
Then I did the more typical tests. Individual vocals, drums, Quiet As Possible.” Try only using a certain family of cards or try blend between a Shure SM57 and a Neumann U 67 from a
bass, guitars, and comparisons with a half dozen other removing one or two families. Take two cards instead of three, single instance of the plug-in, while having control over the
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compressors. For vocals, I checked against lots of nice stuff – or only take one. There are no wrong answers here; it’s like mix, as well as alignment, of the mics. A new addition to the
the Tree Audio LC/1 opto, BAE 10DC [Tape Op #91], Tonelux making music! The paper, printing, and design of these cards is Sphere plug-in is the “IsoSphere” section, which incorporates
TX5C, 500 Series FMR Audio RNLA (Did you know that these very nicely done, and these should make a nice addition to any models of isolation products like the sE Electronics Reflexion,
exist? They do!) – and the EC5B never lost. Did it work on studio, music room, or as a gift to your favorite music maker. Aston Halo, Kaotica Eyeball, and even a vocal booth model.
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smooth, melodic vocals? It sure did. Did it work on guttural ($18; www.infinitedirectionscards.com) -JB
Gear Reviews/(continued on page 60)/59
 There are 20 included microphone models in the LX plug-in; design. The original 660 had a whopping 11 tubes, while the
ten of these are large-diaphragm condensers which include RS660 utilizes three, like the RS124. The unit is simple to
original and modern Neumann U 87s, a U 67, Sony C-800G, operate, has a brown metalflake faceplate, with big chunky
plus two AKG C414s and a C12. Also included are two small- black knobs, and a classic looking VU meter, giving it an old
diaphragm condensers (AKG C451 and Sennheiser MKH 416 military-ish look. The RS660 has a variable-mu type
shotgun), six dynamic mics (the usual suspects: SM57, compression circuit, and operates in many ways like the other
Sennheiser MD 421, Electro-Voice RE20, AKG D12E, etc.), and tube compressors I own. Clockwise adjustment of the Input
one ribbon model of the Royer 121. I would have liked a control raises incoming signal level and lowers the compressor’s
couple of other ribbon options, and would sacrifice one of the threshold, thus increasing the amount of compression. The
large diaphragm condensers and one dynamic model for Output control has unity at noon (clearly marked) and can
something like an RCA 44 or Coles 4038 to have been included. attenuate or boost. Two RS660s can be used in stereo by using
In my original review, I wrote of how brilliant I thought the the Link switch and connecting the units with an unbalanced
L22 sounded on a variety of sources and the Sphere LX 1/4-inch cable.
certainly doesn’t disappoint either! Even without the There are three selectable compressor modes on the RS660.
modeling aspect of the plug-in, this is an excellent sounding Comp is the compression mode of the RS660. Comp mode
microphone – if it wasn’t good in the first place, no amount simultaneously changes several characteristics of gain
of processing would suddenly make it shine. Acoustic guitars reduction including threshold, knee or curve, and gain
sound incredible with the LX, and having the ability to change structure. In Comp mode, the threshold is higher and

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the pattern to omni or change the proximity effect to fix poor compression onset is lower, and the knee is softer. The gain
placement can be a lifesaver on a great take. Guitar amps structure is also lower, and therefore pushes the compressor
translated exactly as I hoped, and having the dual-mic less hard. All the vibe and control, with a gentler sound and
capability in the plug-in let me experiment (after recording character. Limit mode provides more color than the unit in
the amp) with using one or two mics. I love using this mic as Comp mode and is more aggressive sounding. THD (total
a “front-of-kit” mic – about 2 meters in front of the drums, harmonic distortion) mode is similar to the THD circuits

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angled slightly at the floor in front of the bass drum. This deployed on the Chandler Limited TG1 [Tape Op #37] and
eliminates some cymbal splash into the mic and gives a full TG12413 Zener Limiters [#59], not compressing or limiting, but

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picture of the drums. Changing mic models and experimenting instead producing overdrive and distortion. I love this feature,
with different compressors opens up a whole world of sounds, and it was awesome for making a DI bass track growl. I wish
and can create a really explosive drum tone on its own or we could use the Comp and THD simultaneously! The Time
when blended with other kit mics. My favorite discovery was Constant switch sets the reactivity of the RS660 and features

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how well the mic worked when recording pedal harp. Even seven positions. Positions 1 to 3 are fast, recreating popular
though these look like the largest instruments in an orchestra, settings from the Fairchild 660 and producing colorful vintage-
they are acoustically incredibly quiet, and I’m always on the styled tones. Position four is a bridge between the faster and
hunt for lower-noise mics and preamps to capture them. My slower settings and works great for less colored vocals and
usual mics for this application are a pair of Neumann TLM
l guitars. Positions 5 to 7 are the most neutral, and the closest
170 R or Ear Trumpet Labs Delphina into the aforementioned to the tone and character of the RS124. I think what Chandler
Metric Halo preamps. The Sphere LX completely held its own describes as “neutral,” “moderate,” and “less colored” can still
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and was possibly a couple dB quieter than the Neumanns. The be quite rich. The RS660 proves to be a wonderful tone
tone from the LX was also a perfect mono capture of the harp. machine when you need to give anemic sources some life.
And, yes, I tried it on snare drum and I kinda don’t want to I was in the middle of mixing my own record when the RS660
take it off the stand! Having a U 67 and SM57 on my snare showed up, and there were a couple tracks where I was
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drum is not something I’d try on most drummers (from an struggling to find the right vocal compression. With some quick
insurance standpoint), but the sonics don’t lie, and if I can patching and level adjustments for Input, Output, and fiddling
get there using the Sphere LX, dammit, I’m going to! with the Time Constant for a moment, I was off to the races.
Measures were taken to help keep the cost of the Sphere LX Even when the meter showed heavy reduction it didn’t sound
down. It includes a soft zippered carrying case instead of the over compressed, and the vocal was glued into the mix nicely
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DLX’s hardshell one. The LX has only a swivel-mount that with a bit of harmonic glow. In fact, I removed all the EQ I had
threads on the bottom of the body, rather than the DLX’s on the track once the RS660 was employed. Sometimes it’s just
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shock mount. The DLX plug-in also includes 38 models to the that easy. For vocal duties I can see this being a first go-to in
LX’s 20, but they are all fantastic. The place where no almost every situation. It just does that thing! On bass guitar
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compromise was made is the sound of the microphone, and it imparted the same sort of sonic magic. Big, fat, harmonically
here I can find no fault. I’m really happy to see UA keeping rich, and focusing. The same thing on acoustic guitars; settling
this mic’s family and the innovations alive and expanding! into the track but still present in the mix. There was not a
($999 street; uaudio.com) -Don Gunn <dongunn.com> single instance or instrument where I had to spend more than

Chandler Limited a few minutes finding the right settings to make it sing.
I know the electronics and math happening inside the RS660
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RS660 tube compressor are not “simple,” but I love the simplicity of the controls and
What I didn’t need was another piece of gear to help drain
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the speed in which a great sound is achieved. The RS660 is not

my bank account, but what I always need is a compressor that cheap, especially for a single channel of compression. But after
helps me do my job while making me look good. On both years of buying gear and staring at a box of broken crap that I
fronts, the new Chandler RS660 compressor is that piece of bought on the cheap, more and more it’s worth saving up and
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gear. As the name suggests, the RS660 is based partly on the buying gear that will last me a lifetime. I know there are no
Fairchild 660, but also on the RS124 – that compressor that “magic boxes,” but after using the RS660 for even one day
came about because the EMI technical staff was trying to I started thinking, “Well, maybe there are?”
modify an Altec 436B, eventually arriving at a whole new ($3399 street; chandlerlimited.com) -GS
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60/Tape Op#155/Gear Reviews/(continued on page 62)

 This Is What It Sounds Like (book)
Susan Rogers & Ogi Ogas, authors
This Is What It Sounds Like: What the Music You Love Says About You is a must read for any music producer, recording artist,
audio engineer, or consumer of art in any form. Susan Rogers [Tape Op #117] doesn’t explain to us the technical aspects of
how a song is written and gets recorded – that’s been done – but instead she examines what music does to the listener’s
mind to make them love, hate, or ignore it altogether. The companion playlist is a must-listen to fully appreciate this book.
In fact, we are instructed to listen to specific songs at the beginning of each chapter before reading!
Rogers spent much of her recording career working with Prince, engineering some of his most influential recordings and
winning Grammys. There’s no doubt he had an incredible influence on her technique and ear, but the experience left her
with a nagging question, “Did listening to music actually matter?” This idea stayed with her, and she eventually left the
recording industry at her professional peak to pursue a career in academia, eventually attaining a Ph.D. in cognitive
neuroscience and later a professorship at Berklee College of Music.
The book is based on the concept of a “record pull; a hang where guests each bring a song to share and discuss. Whether
you like the companion songs or not, they complement Roger’s text in such a way that by not listening to them you will miss
the deeper experience of the text. The author takes no hostages (and makes no promises) as the songs are curated equally
from her own tastes and those of her co-author, neuroscientist Ogi Ogas Ph.D. (whose musical preferences contrast deeply
with hers in an informative way). The result is an exciting journey through the emotional psychology that makes us listen to
the music we listen to. I personally found myself hearing familiar songs in a completely new light, and hearing others I never

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would have given a chance and yet coming away enlightened. This is an experience Rogers recalls after hearing Michael
Nesmith’s “Joanne” at a record pull, and recognizing “…a tenderness I’d never noticed before…” as her host offered“
...a heartfelt account of the record’s influence on his own early career…”
It’s both eye and ear opening to hear two widely opposite songs such as Creedence Clearwater Revival’s “Born on the
Bayou” and Daft Punk’s “The Grid” back to back, and then reading Roger’s explanation of musical realism; what a listener

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“sees” when they listen to a particular song or another. I began hearing and “seeing” recordings completely differently after
reading this chapter; more in three dimensions and with enhanced imagery. It’s also affected the way I mix, and given me

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more confidence and bravado to try new techniques and not consider if they are “correct.” Feeling more than thinking.
Another perspective I gained from reading this book is that it’s perfectly natural to continue to listen to the same artists,
songs, records, and genres over and over. Not that you shouldn’t keep your ear open for something new, but it’s in our DNA.
If I like classic rock and bluegrass, and my kids like Top 40 pop, there’s nothing right or wrong about it, it’s just how we’re

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wired. Thank heavens for the invention of the Walkman and what came after it so we can all happily go about our lives with
a personal soundtrack (or none at all) playing in our heads. But as Rogers explains, it’s more fun to invite your friends over,
share some songs, and discuss what they do or do not do to you emotionally. You might just hear something fresh, or find
out you actually do like Bach! (wwnorton.com) -Ben Bernstein <www.benbernsteinmusic.com>
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Please Support Our Advertisers/Tape Op#155/61

 NUGEN Audio
Halo Vision immersive metering plug-in
NUGEN Audio is back with a brand new metering plug-in, Halo Vision, that takes their stereo-
based Visualizer and expands it into the surround and Dolby Atmos/immersive audio world.
Halo Vision provides a customizable layout of up to six meter types (plus timecode display)
ranging from stereo all the way to 7.1.2.
Much of my mix work these days is Atmos-based for release on the streaming platforms that
support the format (Apple Music, Amazon, Tidal). If you aren’t familiar with the delivery
specifications for immersive audio content it is very strict, similar to broadcast or film audio.
Absolute levels must be adhered to or the file will likely be rejected by the delivery platforms,
or by the aggregators feeding the content to them. This makes accurate and informative
metering a must compared to standard stereo mixing where, as long as one isn’t clipping the
mix, anything goes (and some even ignore that). Immersive audio must meter no higher than
-18 LUFS (Loudness Units relative to Full Scale) for the full multichannel mix (up to 128
objects in Atmos) so that all of the possible downmix formats have enough headroom to not
clip. It’s tricky work and can’t be ignored!
The NUGEN folks are no strangers to surround/multichannel design with their Halo Upmix
and Halo Downmix plug-ins being de rigueur in the post production world for a few years. They

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also have their more recent Paragon multichannel convolution reverb, so they were properly
positioned to expand the comprehensive stereo metering of Visualizer to the fast-growing
immersive audio sphere. Halo Vision is available as an AAX, AU, and VST3 plug-in, so there’s
support in all the major DAWs that are supporting immersive/spatial audio (Avid Pro Tools,
Apple Logic, Steinberg Cubase/Nuendo).

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The Halo Vision plug-in defaults to opening with all meters and timecode visible. The UI is
freely adjustable in size and the timecode display can be set to frames, samples, or

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milliseconds. The Peak Meters can be arranged horizontally or vertically and set to read True
Peak, Sample Peak, or Apple Peak. They also have adjustable range, peak, and fallback times.
These are very responsive meters and provide instantaneous visual feedback for all the
channels of a given instance of the plug-in.

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The Spectrum view can show a combined FFT (Fast Fourier Transform) view of all channels
present combined into one graph. When in Group mode, groups of channels (these can be
user-defined), can be displayed each in a different color superimposed upon each other. For
instance, you can view how your front L/R channels may be relating to your rear L/R channels.
The frequency and level scales are freely zoomable by dragging on the readouts to the left or
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bottom of the Spectrum pane.
These views will be familiar to anyone that has used metering plug-ins before, Halo Vision
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also has some unique phase meters. First, Correlation Matrix displays how every channel in
the 7.1.2 matrix relates to every other channel simultaneously and is continually updated
using colors to warn when relationships are going anti-phase. The other phase meter is
Correlation Web, which is a circle with all the channels of the plug-in width displayed around
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the circumference, and each channel connects to every other one with a “web” of green lines.
I love these meters because they point out problem spots that can sometimes be difficult to
hear in a dense, multichannel mix.
The final two meters are in the “Haze” category. Frequency Haze shows the distribution of
frequencies from lows starting at the center of the circle, then spreading outward for higher
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ones, with the channels distributed in a circular approximation of their speaker positions in
the room. For height channels, there’s a separate half circle to the right or underneath the
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main circle (depending on the layout of the UI). Location Haze is similar but describes the
energy intensity and distribution among the speakers; brighter colors indicate more energy.
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Each of the meters can be freely moved about the UI to position it where it is most
preferred. They can also be zoomed to take over the entirety of the UI when it’s important to
focus on one particular thing while troubleshooting. Individual meters can also be removed
from the display if you should find one or more that isn’t important to your metering needs.
I adore the Halo Vision meters when I’m mixing in everything from stereo all the way up to
Atmos 7.1.4. I use two sets of the meters in my Atmos template, one for the 7.1.2 bed and
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another exclusively for my 4-channel height bus made up of separate objects to get around
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the Pro Tools limitation of a maximum 7.1.2 channel width. I don’t send my LFE channel to
the 7.1.2 bed, so I effectively only monitor a 7.0.2 output for my main output. It would be
handy if I was somehow able to pipe my separate LFE Aux channel into Halo Vision and see it
with the rest of the bed, but I can manage without it. The only other “problem” is the UI
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becoming a blank white rectangle when changing the size of the plug-in, but it redraws
quickly when the mouse is let go – small issue, but worth a mention.
Once again, NUGEN has come up with a perfect utility that provides so much feedback, it’s
crazy not to work with it, especially when levels and phase coherence are deal-breakers for
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immersive mixing. Get it! ($299; nugenaudio.com) -Don Gunn <dongunn.com>

62/Tape Op#155/Gear Reviews/(continued on page 64)
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Please Support Our Advertisers/Tape Op#155/63

 Solid State Logic
SSL 12 interface
Ever since I acquired a rack-mounted DAW interface, I didn’t think I had much need for a
smaller, portable interface. However, when I recently had the opportunity to record a grand
piano outside of my home studio, it struck me how much of a pain it would be to extricate
my existing interface from my patchbay (not to mention my other interface, which is
connected via SMUX for more inputs and outputs). Yes, I could do it, but it makes the
opportunity less appealing.
Thankfully, Solid State Logic sent me their new SSL 12 USB 2.0 interface, which is far more
portable than my rack gear (it fits easily in a tote bag or small backpack) and is bus-powered;
plug it in to your laptop and you’re ready to go. Packed with four SSL preamps, the SSL 12
gave me more mic’ing options than smaller portable interfaces, which are often limited to two
preamps. For piano, I settled on two mics over the strings and a set of stereo mics further
back in the room. The preamps sound good, which is not usually the case with an interface
of this size. Like the smaller SSL 2 [Tape Op #138], the SSL 12 includes “Legacy 4K” buttons
under each of its four input channels. Emulating the sound of the SSL 4000 series console,
these boost the high end and add a bit of crunch, but with a subtlety (dare I say reticence)
one would expect of any British “piece of kit.” Like Gear Reviews’ editor Scott McChane’s

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experience reviewing the SSL 2, once I turned on the 4K option I never turned back. Each of
the four inputs accepts mic or line sources via combo XLR connectors on the back, with further
per-channel options for +48V phantom power and a high pass filter (75 Hz with an 18 dB per
octave slope). Additionally, the first two inputs also include HI-Z instrument inputs
conveniently located on the front panel. With MIDI in and out the SSL 12 can also serve as

)
an interface between your computer and keyboards. On a recent demo for indie rock band Fine
Motor, I used the instrument inputs to record a Nord Electro keyboard in stereo and one of

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the SSL’s mic pres to record singer Casey Bell through an SE V7 [#122]. Casey sings quietly,
and using about 75% of the available gain, I got a good clear signal.
What if you want to record more than four inputs at a time? The SSL 12 includes an ADAT
input for 8 channels at 44.1/48 kHz or 4 channels at 88.2/96 kHz, which makes this interface

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a contender for full-band or multi-mic drum tracking. It features two stellar-sounding
headphone outputs with independent volume controls. With a few tweaks in the included SSL
360 software, you can customize each headphone mix. You can also customize the four
outputs, meaning you could send four additional mono signals (or two stereo signals) to an
external headphone amp and there’s even a helpful built-in talkback mic.
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When it comes time to mix, the four balanced outputs allow you to hook up two sets of
stereo monitors, or monitor through one pair and save the other two for effects sends or
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outboard bus compression. The largest knob on the SSL 12 controls the monitor level, and
yes… it goes to 11. The SSL may not be the ultimate interface for analog or hybrid mixing,
but if you mix in the box you could very happily use this as your main interface. The stereo
field was impressively wide, with a clarity throughout the frequency spectrum that you would
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expect from SSL. The SSL 12 is a very versatile interface – small enough to sit on your desk
or carry with your laptop, but big enough to record a band and manage your monitors for in-
the-box mixing. Speaking of mixing, SSL has also included perpetual licenses for their helpful
Vocalstrip 2 and Drumstrip plug-ins, not to mention 3-months access to the complete SSL
plug-in collection and other software. I enjoyed tracking with the SSL 12 in my home studio,
)

but I especially appreciate how its portability opens possibilities further afield as well.
($499.99 street; solidstatelogic.com) -Daniel Ryan Morse <danielryanmorse.com>
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reFuse Software
Mulligan plug-in control app
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Touted as a “hands-on plug-in control for Pro Tools,” this standalone application could be a
frustration-killer for anyone who finds themselves tweaking the multitude of parameters within
plug-ins via mouse or trackball. It also opens up the possibilities of two-handed (or more) control
when setting parameters, like recording automation for delays with regeneration and time
modulation all happening at the same time. Mulligan is an intermediary application that allows
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Pro Tools (PT) to communicate with any MIDI hardware (featuring 8 knobs or more) for plug-in
and simple transport and channel controls; PT sees Mulligan as if it’s a MIDI controller itself. Get
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it? Once the relatively simple setup in PT is done (linking Mulligan as a MIDI controller), hit the
Map All Knobs button in Mulligan and turn the first knob on your controller to the left. This maps
the whole bank of 8 knobs, and now it’s ready to control plug-ins. Click on a plug-in or channel
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(the top plug-in will be highlighted), and you’ll see a blue line around the plug’s GUI and insert
point. Now your controller is active (via the “plug-in map controls” that PT offers). Nothing has
to be modified in your PT sessions to make Mulligan function. Open and work as usual, and use
Mulligan if needed, or not!
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64/Tape Op#155/Gear Reviews/(continued on page 66)

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Please Support Our Advertisers/Tape Op#155/65

 FabFilter
Twin 3 virtual analog synth
Knob assignment can be customized, as some plug-ins have FabFilter’s Twin 3 is a sweeping update to their well-
several (scrollable via Mulligan) “pages” (banks of 8) while received virtual Twin 2 synth, originally released back in
others might even have less than 8 control parameters. 2009. Fourteen years later, Twin 3 represents a massive
Because Mulligan uses the M-Audio Keyboard protocol for MIDI overhaul to almost every aspect of the instrument, and it
control (you know, the 8 knobs on the left side of the M-Audio truly is a joy to use. FabFilter’s growth as a company is
keyboards), we get access to only 8 controls at a time, but a evident with Twin 3, as they serve up a fantastic-sounding
Heads-Up Display will pop up at the bottom of your screen synth with a unique workflow and an eye-popping GUI.
(with size, placement, and font options) and it shows the 8 If you’ve been following FabFilter over the years you may
knob assignments’ values for quick familiarity. Buttons on your have noticed that their penchant for selling us something we
MIDI device can be assigned to transport functions, as well as didn’t know we needed, and the Twin 3 is no different. Some
“current track” settings – level, solo, mute, pans, sends – and of FabFilter’s latest plug-ins, like Saturn 2, Timeless 3, and
even fader control if you have that encoder. even Pro-Q 3 [Tape Op #139, #146, #132], suggest a
What did I fear about using something like Mulligan? Over propensity toward sound design, and their intuitive way of
the decades, I’ve seen so many versions of DAW controllers out mapping out features and breaking the mold has reshaped
there, some as big as a console, with many of these now the way we’ve thought about our daily driver plug-ins. With

co
relegated to a landfill since OS and drivers changed around this long-awaited third installment to their virtual analog
them. Plus, as a commercial studio owner, I found that synth, they’ve done that once again. As someone who has
freelancers (or even staff) wouldn’t even touch the simple dabbled with hardware and software synths for the better
PreSonus FaderPort [Tape Op #59] that we had years ago. My part of 20 years, I found the FabFilter workflow refreshing
first note to reFuse’s Leigh Marble (also a way-back Tape Op and inspiring, and enjoyed the feeling of working in a
contributor) was that I wouldn’t have any use for Mulligan, as familiar realm, albeit in an unfamiliar way.

)
I didn’t work this way. Then Leigh dropped by to demo it, and Twin 3 is capable of hosting up to four oscillators and all of

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I changed my tune. Once set up, I can show this to any the other bells and whistles you’d expect to find. There are too
engineer, and they’ve “got it” right away. There’s no many new features to mention here, but of note is the
complicated workaround, and Mulligan is (thankfully) not aforementioned redesigned GUI, addition of a fourth
trying to emulate a whole console. Despite the extra features oscillator, a new effects section, arpeggiator, oversampling,

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mentioned, it’s intended to control plug-ins, and to give the and a clean and easy-to-navigate preset browser. I’d suggest
user a quicker, more intuitive interface for dialing in sounds. checking out their site to get a sense of the other
Plus, the controller can be very small, even sitting nearby on improvements, but what we end up with is a beautiful-
our actual analog console at Jackpot! Recording. Nice. sounding synth that asks us to think in a different way. The
In use, I felt there were many plug-ins that I’d prefer to layout of the synth is both alien and intuitive, and the visual
remap knobs to feature my most-used controls. Note that this feedback is akin to your favorite screensavers from an old ‘90s
l
is not the fault of Mulligan, and that you can easily remap as PC married with Star Trek: The Next Generation. Oscillators and
their parameters are on the left, envelope and mod section on
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noted above. Some plug-ins, like FabFilter Pro-Q 3 [Tape Op
#132], feature 51 pages of possible controls – I understand the bottom, effects to your right, and filters in the middle.
why, and I know I could remap, but this sent me back to the Once familiarized with its space age workflow, it’s a sound
mouse in a heartbeat; once again, not Mulligan’s fault, but designers’ playground. If you’re someone who enjoys diving
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something to note when using this app. I love that when I into the “tweakability” of FabFilter’s other plug-ins, or find
open a plug-in with my mouse that a hardware button will be your current workflow a bit stale, this is definitely for you. If
there to instantly solo/un-solo that channel. This alone sped you’re someone who heavily prefers the traditional synth
up mixing. My left hand would be soloing and tweaking the layout and workflow, you may be a little frustrated at not
plug-in while my right hand was ready at the mouse. I’m still being able to initially achieve certain sounds as quickly as
feeling a little clumsy with all this, but I found it nice to have you’re used to. However, with a little practice it’s a lot of fun.
)

access to knobs – at times I’d try settings that I never bothered As someone who tends to find a preset that gets me into
with while using a mouse. the ballpark and then fiddles with knobs from there, FabFilter
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I demoed Mulligan on a Behringer X-Touch Mini, the perfect makes it easy to browse around and flag favorites. After
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format with 8 knobs and an array of buttons (hint: P-touch the going through the presets, and even checking out some
transport function buttons), and I purchased one of these even incredible user-made ones, I feel this synth excels at
though it’s probably going to fall apart in a year. (Note that it beautiful, expansive, ear-candy laden sounds. It’s so pleasing
had to have its encoders setup “relative” via a Windows to listen to once you get sounds moving around your
computer.) Controllers reFuse recommended include the DJ speakers. The tone is both pristine and rich, a description
TechTools Midi Fighter Twister and Kenton Killamix Mini (Who that other FabFilter users will likely recognize as being
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names this gear? Teenage boys?). exactly on brand. In all, something as different as the Twin 3
Hint: Once it’s set up, open Mulligan before PT. Otherwise will always be beloved by some, and simply not for others. I
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one needs to revisit the MIDI controller setup in PT. Opened encourage you to download the 30-day demo and see if it’s
properly, it’s all ready to roll as long as your controller is already right for you! ($129 or part of select bundles; fabfilter.com)
hooked up to the computer (oops). But the best part is now -Dave Hidek <davehidek@gmail.com>
it’s time to set aside our mouses and trackballs (to a degree!)
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and start turning knobs again! Tape Op is made

($79 direct, www.refusesoftware.com) -LC possible by our
advertisers.
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Please support them and tell them

66/Tape Op#155/Gear Reviews/(continued on page 68) you saw their ad in Tape Op.
 Gear Geeking w/ Andy…
During my attendance of the NAMM Show in April 2023, I saw
many new and unique products. Audiomovers showed me Inject,
a plug-in for recording iPad virtual instruments directly into a DAW
using only a USB cable, and Omnibus 2.0, the latest update of
the company’s virtual patchbay that can freely route audio
between applications and device drivers that support Core Audio.
Both software solutions can ease the annoyances many of us
experience whenever there are software instruments or multiple
DAWs in play. If you’ve ever had a client with an iPad synth or a
looping performance to add to a song, you’ll understand. Also on
the utilitarian front, NUGEN Audio Jotter is a plug-in with a free
companion application for collaboratively annotating individual
DAW tracks or standalone soundfiles. Time-stamped comments
can be shared between engineers, producers, and musicians; and
everyone can add, edit, and checkmark the notes (review coming
soon). Sony introduced the MDR-MV1 open-back headphone that,
to my ears, sounded beautifully detailed and refreshingly neutral

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for high-resolution stereo playback, but it’s also optimized to work
with object-based and three-dimensional audio systems, including
Sony’s own 360 Virtual Mixing Environment. 360 VME relies on
tiny mics to measure your Head-Related Transfer Function (HRTF);
subsequently, the system processes the signal feeding your

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headphones to create a virtual mix environment of any physical
environment that has also been measured. The idea is that you

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can take the 3D speaker-room response of your favorite mix room
anywhere with you by listening in 360 VME on headphones.
Speaking of room response, the PSI Audio AVAA C214 is the taller
(but skinnier) sibling of the original AVAA C20 active bass absorber

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[Tape Op #114] that I consider to be one of the most
groundbreaking products in acoustic treatment. I already own a
pair of C20s, and I want to add two C214s to my new Nashville
control room. And on the topic of object-based audio, the Ex
Machina Soundworks Titan multichannel speaker system utilizes l
four compact, bi-amped, co-axial monitors connected to a single
external DSP processor/amplifier. Dolby Atmos anyone? For ease
Panoramic House
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of installation, only one speakON cable connects each speaker to
the central amp, and standard VESA mounting points are on the
rear of the speakers. The Roswell Pro Audio Aztec is a no-
compromise, large-diaphragm tube mic with an edge-terminated
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capsule. Wait, I take that back – the body is still a cheap off-the-
shelf component. But everything inside spares no expenses, and
given how other Roswell mics [#109, #117, #129, #137] have
been received, I have no doubt that Aztec will compete favorably
with mics twice its price. The Black Lion Audio PBR TT 96-point
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patchbay utilizes a custom jack design with an obsessively

tweaked response curve for patch cable insertion and removal a place for creating and collaborating
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force. If you appreciate mechanical QWERTY keyboards with

Cherry-style tactile keyswitches, then this patchbay is for you.
music/sound/art/building
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You’ll never have to worry about partially inserted TT patch cables

again. The 500 Series Cranborne Audio Carnaby Harmonic EQ
looks like it has the same boost/cut and frequency knobs as a bog-
standard semi-parametric EQ, except that these pots adjust the
ratio of clean signal vs. harmonic saturation in accordance with Insert your vision here
the EQ curves. The effect is immediately intuitive and incredibly
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addictive – and I’m buying a pair. With a saturation process that’s

more on the subtle side, the Whitestone Audio P331-EVL Tube
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Loading Amplifier is designed for mix engineers who are happy

with their stereo mix but would like to add a tiny bit of ear candy.
The “EVL” version provides a greater range of saturation than
www.panoramic-house.com
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the original version for mastering [#145]. The 500 Series

Empirical Labs PUMP compressor is the baby child of the
Distressor [#32], the Mike-E CompSat section, and the Arouser
[#117] attack-mod feature. I think Dave Derr [#33] is going to sell
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a 5h!t1o@d of these. –AH

Please Support Our Advertisers/Tape Op#155/67
 Universal Audio
Hitsville Reverb Chambers plug-in
In 1959, Motown Records’ president, Berry Gordy, needed a first-class reverb for the
label’s studio. The EMT 140 plate reverb had just come out, but most studios built their
own chambers in those days. Gordy and chief technical engineer Mike McLean converted
the studio attic into an echo chamber, and part of the Motown Sound was born. The
results were superb. Check out classic records by The Supremes, Marvin Gaye, Stevie
Wonder, and many more. Today, with the Hitsville Reverb Chambers, Universal Audio (UA)
allows the rest of us to put our virtual hands on these signature effects via their native
and UAD-2 plug-in.
Although numerous chamber-based reverb plug-ins are on the market, Hitsville Reverb
Chambers are different, which seems only fitting. From dimensional peculiarities, to
equipment, to settings – these are one-of-a-kind spaces. UA worked with John Windt, who
built and/or installed most of the Motown recording studios, painstakingly sourcing, repairing,
and rebuilding each chamber’s gear. Finally, instead of relying on standard modeling
approaches, UA developed a new hybrid engine, combining proven impulse response (IR)
technology with proprietary DSP techniques. UA contends the results are more accurate than
any other IR Convolution or algorithmic emulators currently in use.

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Chamber History (via UA’s website): The first Motown studio was built in a residential
building (“Hitsville”) at 2648 West Grand Boulevard in Detroit, Michigan, where the attic was
renovated to become a reverb chamber. A 1-inch concrete slab covered the floor and
supported an interior shell decoupled from external walls or the roof. The interior was
plastered using a textured troweled finish and rounded corner transitions using pine 2x2s for

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structure and 1/4-inch cement board (like drywall but made with cement). Finally, multiple
coatings of shellac (a natural varnish made from beetle secretions!) sealed the walls. A pair

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of speakers were placed directly on the floor, aimed at the corners. A mic was placed behind
each driver, aimed in the same direction. As Motown expanded, a later chamber was built next
door at 2644 West Grand. Gordy approved a more sophisticated design, relying on non-parallel
surfaces, thicker walls, harder plaster, and a heavily-polished varnish topcoat.

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How does it sound? The first thing most of us do with reverb is slap it on a vocal. So, that’s
what I did. Comparing the 2648 and the 2644 chambers, an initial impression is 2648 sounds
more upfront midrange-wise, while 2644 is more expansive. However, I was not overly impressed
auditioning on solo tracks. The instant gratification of some other reverbs wasn’t there for me.
However, music is a team sport. Effects that sound great solo only sometimes work in the
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context of a full mix. I opened the plug-in (still on an aux track for the lead vocal) and selected
the 2648 building, mic pair, and speakers. I unmuted all tracks and hit the space bar. There it
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was. I was giggling, just giggling. It’s utterly unfair that I can sit in my study in a bathrobe
and invoke this historic sound.
The JBL 2482 driver with the RCA 44BX mic are just gold on vocals. I created a separate aux
for backing vocals using the 2644 chamber. Try Altec 605s and the Neumann KM 86 for an
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enveloping hug, or Bose 901 with the EV Model 631 for a more band-limited, upper mid pinch,
depending on the material. Although very different, each position the background vocals
wonderfully, and I had yet to start messing with other settings! Once you tweak the remaining
parameters, it’s game on. Remember, those real-world engineers couldn’t move mics or change
speakers at the click of a mouse; it was all legwork with assistants running upstairs. I like that
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once you know how the original chambers were built, the controls are intuitive. I also like that
you can pick a chamber by selecting the 2648 or 2644 building icon at the center top of the
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interface. Furthermore, it is useful that I can swap among the mic and speaker selections – all
straightforward. If necessary, I’ll tweak mic distance, pre-delay, decay, mix, width/mono/stereo,
(a

and the LO and HI EQ controls (for the virtual drivers in the chambers, creating tonal changes
via speaker volume in the room). Many features were designed with today’s working engineers
in mind. The original chamber designers took into account the tendency for spaces to
overmodulate on some low and low-mid frequencies, including countermeasures such as filters,
non-full-range speakers, and band-limited mic options. The plug-in also does this, keeping the
tools that protect from potential audio mudslides.
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Refrain from dismissing the Hitsville Reverb Chambers because your productions don’t sound
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like Motown. In fact, that’s all the more reason to demo this. If Pink Floyd, Frank Sinatra, or
Dolly Parton had recorded on West Grand Boulevard, they would have used these chambers on
everything. Why should we do anything differently? ($349 list, look for sales; uaudio.com)
-Garrett Haines <treelady.com>
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tapeop.com
Bonus & archived
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68/Tape Op#155/Gear Reviews/(continued on page 69) reviews online!

 Sonnox
Claro EQ plug-in
The Sonnox Claro equalizer (from their Toolbox range of plug-ins) is a fantastic sounding, intuitive
EQ for professionals and beginners alike. Multiple interface options provide visual feedback in
addition to traditional EQ functionality. I have never met a Sonnox product that I didn’t think was
useful and top notch in terms of audio quality. I frequently use their limiter, compressor, drum gate,
EQ and reverb plug-ins. Claro is a deep plug-in, with a high degree of functionality and features,
but I am going to do my best to give a quick, solid overview.
Upon opening Claro, the default “Produce” view provides a sliding high-pass filter on one end
and a low pass on the other end, both with preset but adjustable slopes. Below are some more
“descriptive” terms for how we might talk about audio. From low to high: Rumble|Weight,
Warmth|Mud, Definition|Harshness, and Air.
Below on the interface are frequency points on a sliding scale (100 Hz, 1 kHz and 10 kHz).
Finally, there are three controls that represent Low/Mid/High that each have five set selectable
frequency points one might typically see on EQs. Each chunk of the spectrum is represented by a
circle with a center point line where you can increase or decrease each range. In addition, there is
a “shelf mode” that ostensibly mimics the old Pultec cut/boost trick. When audio is playing, the
source frequency range is represented by a blue spectral analysis graphic. You may want to do

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cutting or boosting based on this visual in addition to what you are hearing. All this alone would
make for a powerful EQ with a ton of options for how to approach EQ’ing, but wait there’s more!
The next view option is called “Tweak.” This view provides another, more detailed, look at the
audio – laid out against a keyboard at the top – and has additional descriptives – from left to right
on the top of interface are Weight, Warmth, Body, Presence, Definition, and Air – to help the user

)
find any problem areas. On the bottom there are more descriptives: Rumble, Boom, Mud, Nasal,
Harshness, and Hiss. Zoom in on a specific note on the keyboard and solo just the EQ processing

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for insight into what is happening with your processing. There are a bunch of other options for
stereo usage, splitting bands L/R, mid-side, side only, and on and on.
The third and final view is called “Mix.” This view lets us see all the tracks in a session that are
operating with Claro on. I found this to be a fascinating and enlightening visual representation of

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my mix. You likely have heard the term “masking.” Simply put, masking happens when two or more
elements occupy the same frequency areas in a mix, resulting in unwanted build-ups that can
decrease the definition of certain elements. If you have sub-par monitors, headphones, or an
imperfect or untreated mix room, Mix view can provide insight to your mix. Sonnox recommends
placing Claro on all tracks and busses in a mix and then opening a primary focus track such as a
lead vocal so you can see how all your mix elements are sitting across the frequency spectrum in
relation to this “focus” track. It provides excellent insight, and a great teaching tool and roadmap
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when trying to hack your way through the frequency jungle that is mixing. Note that all masking
is not inherently bad, and there is plenty of it on many great recordings. Use this tool to help
identify its presence and then make the call.
I find myself using Claro more and more on my projects. It’s great for simple fixes or one can go
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as deep as they want with corrective EQ. I can also see it as a tool for helping shape productions,
in that it provides feedback on potential instrument and frequency range/register choices and how
they interact with one another.
Spectrum analysis is not new. There are great products out there that can help us visualize mixes
and do comparisons to your favorite mixes. iZotope and FabFilter are a couple that come to mind
that I also use regularly. What Sonnox has done is wrap all these elements together (with multi-
)

view options) into a package with a top-notch sounding EQ and some additional features that will
allow upstarts to learn frequencies and how they function in a mix situation. I wish everyone could
t

mix with their ears, but we live in a world where people are seeing the mix as much as they are
(a

hearing it. Claro is a great tool for both listening and seeing your mix. I encourage everyone to
check out the demo of Claro to see what it can do for your projects. ($134; sonnox.com) -GS

Massenburg DesignWorks
MDWDRC2-Native plug-in
The MDWDRC2-Native represents a paradigm shift in dynamic processing for plug-ins. Rather than
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a traditional compressor or limiter, this is a comprehensive dynamic conditioning tool. Massenburg

DesignWorks, headed by none other than engineer/producer/gear designer George Massenburg
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[Tape Op #54, #63], has finally released a plug-in that reflects the decades-long evolution of his
legendary GML 8900 dynamic range controller hardware. The term “dynamic range controller”
indicates, as you will see, that this is more than a simple compressor. The GML 8900 is considered
the holy grail by the few people lucky enough to own one.
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Standard compressors and limiters respond to a signal’s average or peak electrical level over time.
The MDWDRC2 detects the signal’s loudness much in the same way the human brain does. Its
patented dynamic range control technology – VEA (variable exponent averager) – enables it to
analyze and react to both the average/RMS and peak levels of the audio signal simultaneously. To
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better understand the significance of this type of control, let’s consider our intentions when
managing a lead vocal in a mix. Please Support Our Advertisers/Tape Op#155/69
 First, it is important to ensure that the lead vocal does not The MDWDRC2, following in the footsteps of the GML 8900
become too quiet and cause the words to be lost, particularly hardware, is capable of controlling either an instrument, a
when a singer trails off at the end of a phrase or swallows a word subgroup in a mix, an entire mix bus, or a master in a way that
before taking a breath. To address this issue, one approach is to no other single processor can. I found the key to optimizing this
manually automate the gain of the signal to boost the volume of plug-in was to always adjust parameters while listening to a
the quieter phrases before the signal hits any additional dynamic signal in the context of the mix. The controls interact with each
or harmonic processing. The MDWDRC2 automates this process by other, so dialing in an optimum setting is a series of moves that
applying a user-controlled amount of gain to the signal below the will play one control against the others. Using the plug-in
compressor’s threshold. This differs from simply increasing the quickly becomes intuitive, and it’s shockingly good at controlling
input level of the compressor, as it only amplifies the low-level lead instruments, drum busses, and full mixes. While this is
signals without raising the volume of sounds that are already generally a transparent processor, the controls can be tweaked
above the threshold. to introduce obvious artifacts for added harmonic growl and
Second, we must maintain a balanced mix by preventing the even distortion effects. This processor is not meant to replace
vocal’s loud phrases from overpowering the rest of the mix. your favorite vintage FET, optical, or tube-based compressor, but
This can be achieved using an RMS-style compressor. The rather to optimize the signal before hitting those compressors
MDWDRC2’s Main compressor utilizes a true-RMS detector to and allowing them to behave more predictably. You may find, as
analyze and control the loudness of the signal. This detector’s I do, that transparent processing of lead instruments is actually
response imitates the frequency sensitivities of human hearing the desired result for a vast majority of sounds in a mix.

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by employing an ITU Broadcasting Service 1770 sidechain During my use, the plug-in was excellent at controlling vocal
filter. LUFS meters, which gauge the loudness of audio signals, levels across many musical genres. Instead of relying on a
employ this same 1770 filter. The attack and release controls typical vocal chain consisting of a Waves MV2 for low-level
of the MDWDRC2 are symmetrically linked and managed by a upward expansion, followed by an FET-style compressor for
single Timing control, providing transparent and musical peak control, and then a tube-based unit for gentle gain-
tracking of the signal’s energy. riding, I was able to replace the entire chain with just one

)
Third, a limiter may be necessary to regulate any short instance of the MDWDRC2, and it sounded excellent. This
volume peaks that get past the compressor. The limiter’s timing allowed me to save time and brain power on clip gain

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and sensitivity should be tuned to complement the behavior of automation and focus more on the creative mixing process.
the compressor to ensure seamless control of the vocal, Since there are no pre-existing vocal presets, I developed my
whether it’s gently riding the overall level or quickly tamping own recipe. First, I adjust the threshold to get a few dB of gain
down peaks in the signal. The MDWDRC2 provides a peak- reduction on loud passages. Then, I fine tune the compression by

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detecting compression section that operates in parallel with the adjusting the knee and ratio. Next, I play a passage with a wider
Main RMS-detecting section. The MDWDRC2 constantly hands- range of dynamics and use the Main slider to bring up any quiet
off control between the RMS and peak detectors, transparently phrases. If any words or phrases still stand out too much, I pull
optimizing the loudness of the signal. down the Peak control. With this method, the average vocal level
l remained constant and the quiet and loud parts moved closer to
the average level. The default Timing and Exponent settings
worked well, and I only found it necessary to speed up the Timing
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control when using heavy amounts of compression for more
pronounced effects. Additionally, I found it beneficial to set up
the compressor and compare the result with and without the
1770 filter engaged. Full mixes and busses generally benefitted
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from the filter, while individual tracks sometimes worked better

without it. With individual tracks, I also rarely found the need to
adjust the Exponent or Release Override controls.
While mastering a mix that simply needed a bit of a hug to
glue it together, I found the default Timing settings, a 1.5 dB
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boost of the Main control, and a ratio of 1.7:1 produced a subtle

increase in density during the soft intro along with a slight
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amount of glue during the loud passages, without any obvious

compression artifacts. In mastering, I often struggle to find a
(a

compressor that doesn’t detract from the mix in some way,

whether it is a change in tone, diminished stereo width, or loss
of power in the lower octave. The MDWDRC2 provided the
compression effect that this mix needed without any of those
unwanted artifacts. I can see this processor becoming a
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permanent part of my mastering chain.

The MDWDRC2 also includes look ahead control, an external
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sidechain input, a bypass gain control for level-matched bypass,

output gain, a few useful presets, and the ability to store A and
B snapshots to compare and fine-tune your settings. The plug-in
window can be resized to accommodate different screen
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resolutions. If you’re open to a fresh approach to dynamic

processing, this plug-in will be an invaluable tool. ($399 street,
30-day demo available; massenburgdesignworks.com)
-Adam Kagan <mixer.ninja>
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70/Tape Op#155/Gear Reviews

 and very usable for certain applications. It even had a
Teaching Machines pleasing distortion when I drove the input hard. It’s quite
Wellspring stereo spring reverb usable and certainly great for an alternative tone when
Oh, I remember… outboard gear can be fun! I am needed. I was able to get surfy swells, wildly-modulated
fortunate to have 31 flavors of compressors, EQs, tone- chaos, beautiful Pink Floyd/David Gilmour-like tones, and
makers, and boneshakers. I even own a few studio spring Radiohead-style dreamy wetness.
reverbs, but nothing quite like the Wellspring, an “analogue When used on a bus and sending different elements to it
stereo spring reverb system” from Wales-based Teaching in a mix, the Wellspring added a nice ambience and depth.
Machines. With two 15-inch spring tanks, an analog delay, Some of the Modulation section I initially felt was simply
plus a variety of tweakable parameters, it is a reverb unique more than I needed (or was able to wrap my head around?),
unto itself. The three rack space tall device can sit on a but as time went on I liked being able to subtly modulate the
desktop or use rack ears for mounting (rubber feet and ears reverb tails for some interesting sounds. Gentle usage of this
included) and has an external power supply. The Wellspring is section was my instinct, but it’s easy to go for something
hand-built by Teaching Machines’ co-founder and crazy, and at times it even sounded like there were keyboard
mastermind, Frank Naughton. or synth pads playing in the background. There’s so much to
Everything is sturdy, and the control knobs are all metal experiment with here!
and feel great when adjusting. The TRS 1/4-inch I/O jacks on Sometimes when great pieces of gear cross my studio desk,
the rear are unbalanced, but I didn’t have any trouble due to a part of me almost wants to keep them secret. This is one of
that. Frank tells us, “It’s wired with ring to ground, so should those times. Looking to spark creativity and create unique

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be okay with most balanced cables and +4 line level signals.” sounds? Many of the current reverb plug-in options are
The controls from left to right can be divided into two layers. outstanding, but I doubt any could capture the sound and
Top level has the input level knob with a clip LED below, the excitement of a unit like the Wellspring. ($1,010 street;
power switch and corresponding LED indicator, a 1/4-inch teachingmachines.co.uk) -GS
guitar or instrument input with a selector for line or guitar

)
levels, and to the right is the output level control (center is
unity gain). Bottom level, broken into three sections, are

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Delay, Modulation, and Filter. Delay: A time 1 knob controls
delay time for the left or mono signal, time 2 controls the
right, and they can be synced via a switch. Feedback, as is
typical, controls the number of repeats in switchable parallel

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or ping-pong modes. Modulation: A switch selects between
Sine or Sawtooth modulation, the delay knob sets the amount
of pitch modulation desired, plus there’s a switch to have L/R
channels modulate in sync or out of phase with each other.
The filter knob controls the filter modulation and can also be l
synced L/R or out of phase. The speed knob controls the
speed of all internal modulation, with an x10 switch to get
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into some wild ring-modulation sorta effects, plus a yellow
LED representing modulation speed. An external +/- 5V
external modulation source can feed the 1/8-inch input jack
on the back panel of the Wellspring. Filter: Select via a
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rotating switch High-Pass, Band-Pass, Low-Pass, or Notch;

the frequency knob sets the Hz; and lastly there is a wet/dry
control for this section that mixes the filtered, modulated,
and delayed signal back with the dry signal before it goes to
the Springs and Magic section.
)

Springs has one knob for dry/wet balance and Magic has a
knob that controls the amount of the Springs that are sent
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back to the Delay section, wired so that the right spring is

sent to the left channel of delay and vice-versa. One can
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create some wild sounds with this control, and I found I did
not even need to have any input happening to make sounds
appear! I did a couple performances of atmospheric ambience
by having a guitar plugged in, playing a few notes to get the
machine humming, and then tweaking Magic’s intensity knob
to let it loose or reign it in. This was pretty cool and – more
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importantly – fun and creative. Given the way this

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reverb/delay is set up, it becomes obvious that every control

on the Wellspring interacts with each other in interesting
ways. With all the controls available, it seems there is an
endless array of sounds and treatments that are available.
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Take some time to learn it, plus check out their website for
ideas. Beyond basic spring reverb tones, which are awesome
on this unit, I feel certain it’s going to be different in the
hands of everyone that uses it.
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I like the benefit of a guitar input right on the front of the

unit and it was great for recording direct, with a good tone Please Support Our Advertisers/Tape Op#155/71
 Umbrella Company OWC
Active Mic Cable Gemini dock & RAID enclosure
Late last year, I received an awesome email from Takeo Yamamoto, who had I’ve been using OWC RAID drives at my studio for around 15 years, and the Gemini is the latest version
stumbled across Tape Op #4 when he was living in NYC ages ago. He now owns we purchased. Ostensibly simply used as an external hard drive to store data, this unit is described by
the pro audio sales/distributor and development firm, Umbrella Company, in OWC as a “Thunderbolt Dock and Dual-Bay RAID External Storage Enclosure.” It can be purchased “empty”
Japan. One of their products is the Active Mic Cable, an interesting new idea for of actual drives, like we did, or purchased pre-loaded with capacities up to 40 TB. It holds the standard
getting the most signal out of dynamic microphones – either moving coil or 2.5-inch and 3.5-inch SATA drives (SSD or HDD). But what makes it a “dock”? There are more ports on
ribbon. By putting a high impedance Class A transistor-based, phantom-powered this enclosure than my first computer, with connectivity for two Thunderbolt 3/USB-C, two USB 3.2, good
buffer circuit in the female XLR jack of a 16-foot mic cable, this device claims ol’ Ethernet, DisplayPort 1.2, and a front SD 4.0 card reader. This could easily be the hub for a system
to achieve a wider dynamic range and “best impedance conversion and signal where one plugged in a laptop, accessed the monitor, mouse and keyboard (via the USB), and get a backup
transmission.” going while they got to work. Handy? Yes!
My first experience with Active Mic Cable was in the middle of a busy tracking I used to think people who talked about hard drive enclosures and “raw” internal drives were only
session. Years ago, while tracking at Tucker Martine’s Flora Recording [Tape Op computer nerds. Now I know better. Recently, I joined the ranks of the nerds, buying empty enclosures
#29], my client requested a “less pristine” vocal sound. Seeing a shiny car hood and naked SATA drives. Why? So I could get good prices on SATA drives, drop them into a quality unit like
ornament-looking thing in the mic locker, I pulled out an Electro-Voice Model this, later popping them out, labeling them for storage, and starting again with fresh drives. This system
664 dynamic mic – it was exactly what we were looking for, with a tight has now replaced the growing pile of older OWC RAID drives in my office with much smaller Ziplocked
midrange focus yet a very clear and interesting sound. I quickly bought my own baggies of raw hard drives. I prefer to do all our studio tracking onto a RAID system instead of a solitary

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664. When I pulled it out during my busy session, I felt right away I wasn’t drive. Setting the Gemini to RAID 1 means that the two internal drives mirror each other, lessening the
getting enough signal or clarity out of the mic – it may have been the preamp risk of losing data. Another advantage is that one could skip RAID and install two quite different drives,
I chose or something else, but I knew it had sounded better before. I like using a smaller SSD drive for current work while backing up to a bigger HDD drive – all in one box.
remembered the Active Mic Cable, swapped it in, and went back to listen to the When we installed a new Mac Studio M1 Max computer at Jackpot!, we decided to retire our previous
live vocal. It was much clearer to my ear, but I was baffled as to why I still had OWC Mercury Elite Pro Dual (Thunderbolt 2) as we were now forced into the Thunderbolt 4/3/USB-C
my mic pre set for 60 dB of gain. Since it was sounding better, we kept using it universe. The OWC Gemini enclosure looked like a smart addition to this new system – stick with what you

)
all day for live tracking, plus the final lead and doubled vocals. know – so we purchased one.
Later, I looked at the info sheet included with the mic cable and realized my Here’s a little side story, and it’s totally my fault and I feel dumb: I pulled the two SATA drives from our

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error; this is not a “booster” circuit, as I had assumed. I had been thinking it previous RAID enclosure and tried to swap them right into this enclosure. Don’t ever do this! Transfer the
was similar to my Cloud and Royer boost boxes, but this cable only provides a data between actual enclosures. My result was two unreadable SATA drives. Luckily, we only lost one mix
load that the microphone sees and feeds into, thus sending down the cable a session out of 1.5 TB of data; our staff had mostly backed up all their work. Why didn’t I back them up

(d
similar voltage level as the raw mic, but with the active electronics providing first? Dumb move, LC.
more clarity and dynamic range. Most microphone preamps have an input I’d already purchased two Seagate BarraCuda 2 TB drives ($50 each), and installation was simple. A
impedance of 1500 to 2000 ohms, but Active Mic Cable has a very high input quick format (via Mac Disk Utility), and we moved over sessions we were all currently in the middle of.
impedance of 53,000 ohms, followed by the buffer circuit. It makes sense to me It’s been the data center of our studio for a month now, and everything is working smooth, plus the fan
as a way to mitigate long cable run signal loss and high frequency loss due to is quieter than the older OWC enclosure. Is this Gemini drive enclosure/dock overkill for our studio? We
the slight resistance and capacitance of longer wiring. Boost circuits for mics are don’t use any of the ports beyond the first Thunderbolt 3, but the robustness of an OWC drive is what
l
a popular item these days, and they can be quite handy, especially with low- drew me in. Our previous OWC drives held up under constant use for years on end – they make dependable
output ribbon mics and quiet sources feeding prosumer interfaces. But have you enclosures. Keeping the sessions running is number one at Jackpot!, and I’m sure all our readers
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tried using one on a loud snare’s close mic? That doesn’t work. But what if you understand this need. Back it up and keep tracking! ($329.99, owcdigital.com) -LC
want the clarity and openness that a booster can bring on a channel like that?
Here’s Active Mic Cable.
The Inner Ear of Don Zientara (book)
Antonia Tricarico, author
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In the following weeks, I tried the Active Mic Cable on snare drum. With two
identical dynamic moving coil mics (we swapped mics around to make sure they Subtitled, “A Half Century of Recording in One of America’s Most Innovative Studios, Through the Voices
were reacting the same), and two channels of the same preamp, I continually of Musicians,” Antonia Tricarico’s photo-filled (250!) book on Don Zientara [Tape Op #8] gives us a
found the active mic to have a brighter tone and was slightly louder (+.63 dB). wonderful glimpse into who Don is, and what has made his Inner Ear Recording Studios one of the most
I also noticed a clearer low midrange transient shape, something that really culturally-important places to make records in the U.S. We hear about sessions with Bad Brains, Minor
helps snare tracks stay present in a mix. Next, with two ribbon mics on a guitar Threat, Fugazi, Bikini Kill, Foo Fighters, The Dismemberment Plan, and so many others.
)

amp, I found that the active mic was actually a little bit quieter (-2.2 dB) but A wonderful interview with Don by John Davis starts the journey, and soon we’re in Don’s basement
with a somewhat clearer high end and slightly less low (potentially muddy) mids studio for “The Basement Years (1972-1989)” and the beginnings of Inner Ear. With “Inner Ear (1990-
t

than the other channel. In both these cases, I could see Active Mic Cable being 2021),” we see construction and wiring photos once the studio has moved into a commercial space, and
helpful for achieving a more focused tone, and it did seem apparent that not the bulk of Don’s recording history plays out here. Many people we have interviewed in Tape Op over the
(a

only were frequencies affected, but that transient details (at low and high years pop up in the oral history, including John Frusciante, Ian MacKaye, Geoff Turner, Chad Clark, Brendan
frequencies) came through in a slightly more distinct way. This part I found Canty, and Guy Picciotto. The book wraps up with thoughts from his wife and daughters, some recent
fascinating. Do I need 24 more of these Active Mic Cables? Hmmmm. photos of the studio (now back at the original home digs), and ends perfectly with pix of Don surfing,
I understand why this product is made in cable form, and not as a little XLR something Tape Op’s John Baccigaluppi has been known to join him in (see John’s blog post at
adapter box or inline housing; this way the circuit inside the XLR jack can be as <tapeop.com>).
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close as possible to the mic or it can be used as a handheld. But being that the Just like Don’s determination to have a studio open for helping anyone and everyone make records, this
Active Mic Cable looks just like any standard mic cable laying around my studio, book gives us a documentation of so many of the people who have captured music at Inner Ear, and in
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I’m afraid it’ll get accidentally used on the wrong mics or stored away on the spool doing so sets a standard for artistic openness and nurturing creativity in all forms that so many of us
with all the normal mic cables. Finding a place to hang it and making sure staff should hold ourselves up to. Thank you Don Zientara, and thanks to Antonia Tricarico for providing a
and freelance engineers understand what it is, when to use it, and what to expect wonderful glimpse into the life of this selfless lover of the arts. (www.akashicbooks.com) -LC
only adds to the task of running a busy commercial studio. However, I guess I
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could say that about many of the studio innovations I’ve seen over the years.
Nonetheless, in the end I’d advise any studio or recordist to grab at least one
Tape Op is made possible
Active Mic Cable for use in select situations, and I believe this is a useful new by our advertisers.
Please support them and tell them
ma

product to have on hand. ($104; umbrella-company.net) -LC

you saw their ad in Tape Op.
72/Tape Op#155/Please Support Our Advertisers/
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Please Support Our Advertisers/Tape Op#155/73

 Not So Oblique Strategies
by Larry Crane,with Garrett Haines

In 1975, Brian Eno (Tape Op #85) and multimedia artist Peter Is the singer as comfortable as possible?
Schmidt published their first set of Oblique Strategies: Over One
Hundred Worthwhile Dilemmas. These cards work as creativity resets, Does the acoustic guitar have loud squeaks on chord changes?
prompting breaks in non-productive work patterns as well as inspiring
new methods. As we’ve seen the tools of music recording become Solo the kick drum and bass instrument. Listen closely.
more affordable, and now in so many musicians’ hands, I think there’s
also a need to examine the basics of music production. With that in Do you really need this many drum mics?
mind, I present my version of their groundbreaking work. Let’s call it
the Not So Oblique Strategies. Use these suggestions wisely! Is the electric bass going sharp? Examine.

Is this song too long? What is the structure of this piece of music?

Is this key too high or low for the vocal parts? Turn off all plug-ins. Is the mix better or worse?

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Is that the best place to put the drums? Are the bass amp and DI box really in phase?

Can all those parts be submixed for easier use? Are all those stompboxes causing ground loops?

)
Is that guitar amp making too much buzz or hum? Does that guitar chord really need to use every string?

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Do you have a decent talkback system set up? Perform the song again. Compare to the previous take. Decide.

Can you hear everything said between takes? Set up a mic! Listen to the artists as they are talking and prepare for the next
task. Think ahead.

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Is anything out of tune?
Do you really want the guitars and vocals to be panned to the
Are the lead vocals legible? Should they be? exact same position?

Are you sure you need so many overdubs? Solo the subwoofer and listen for conflicting sounds.
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That’s a lot of mics on the drums. Mute all but four. Add sparingly. When was the last time the musicians ate?
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Are there tracks in the mix with low end noises you didn’t notice? Is everyone tired? Go home and try again tomorrow.
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Listen to the headphone mix before asking others to do so. Honor thy intention as a hidden error.

Does this song need a click track? Pick up your own set of the real Oblique Strategies here:
<www.enoshop.co.uk>
Is this the best tempo? Listen to vocal delivery.
)

Do vocals need de-essing?

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Is the de-esser removing too much?

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Pick one doubled vocal or instrument and remove that double.

Better? Worse?

Turn off all reverbs and delays. Is the song stronger or weaker?
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Check drum phase on all mics. Check again.

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Press the mono button. Is the mix worse now? Repair.

Listen from the other room. What stands out? What’s missing?
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Do the drums ring out in annoying/obstructive ways? Listen.

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74/Tape Op#155/End Rant

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