The Arc of History: An Interview for The King’s English Inkslinger

by Betsy Burton

I called Amor Towles to talk to him This is a different version of that of course. You’re right. I’m taking a
about A Gentleman in Moscow, but be- sophisticated person, used to luxury and freedom, and putting him in
fore we started with questions he won- a small space in a time of a harsh reality. That adds different compo-
dered who I was and whether we hadn’t nents. He’s ultimately successful in his battle with confinement, and
met before at some book dinner or this adds to the story because by taking away the luxuries he’s used
other. Knowing how often he speaks in to, he begins searching for purpose. It becomes a novel of purpose; he
public, I was surprised he remembered. reinvents himself.
We had met, I said. Had sat next to one BB: Like his reading, the game of Zut the Count plays with Sofia is
another at a breakfast—an American not only a mechanism for avoiding silence and livening up dinner—a
Booksellers event at which he was the strategy to avoid boredom—it is also a wonderful way of broaden-
keynote speaker a couple of years ago. I ing the horizons of both players. Because I see this novel as not only
thought so, he said. After chatting for a good-humored but in many ways profound, might the dangers of
few minutes, I asked my first question boredom and the importance of forestalling those dangers in what-
which was, admittedly, longwinded. ever way one can involve avoiding the danger of becoming a bore?
BB: The incarceration of a person as pampered as Count Rostov in Of allowing the confines of one’s existence to narrow one’s mind and
a small room in the hotel in which he had previously lived in luxury point of view? I guess that’s the converse of what we were just talking
would be—despite the relief at being alive—the ultimate in humilia- about.
tion. I loved the aplomb with which he copes—immediately deter- AT: Interesting question. No one’s put
mined to deal with life’s practicalities by turning them into routines it quite like that. Nicely put. This book
and rituals in order to bestow dignity on their dailinesss. But even is different from Rules of Civility, a
this display of discipline and creativity doesn’t stave off boredom. novel that takes place over one year
Physical torture would be far more grim of course, but isn’t terminal in the life of a 25-year-old woman
boredom the worst sort of mental torture? of working class background who is
climbing up the socioeconomic lad-
der. When I finished the first draft of
this book, I realized that one of the
reasons I had chosen to write it was
that it is the inverse of my first novel
in that everything is opposite: a young
woman and an older man; a woman
who is at the bottom of the socioeco-
nomic ladder and a man at the top of
that ladder; a story over one year and
one that takes place over a 32-year period. It is also unlike Rules of
Civility in that my first novel was about one woman surrounded by
people her own age—if one came to New York City say, or Los An-
geles or Salt Lake City, one would find people of the same age, 25 in
that case, living their lives together—while A Gentleman in Moscow
is about people across generations. About generational relationships:
AT: Sounds like an excellent answer [laughs]. The Count, Nina and Sofia, the Count’s grandmother, his godfather...
BB: [laughing too] It is long, but I was trying to set the book up in relationships over a lifetime.
the first question for those who hadn’t yet read it. In the scene you mentioned, Zut is a way of moving through time.
AT: You did a great job. I’m not sure what I can add to what you said, The Count, who is 32 when the book starts is now over 60 and mov-
so I’ll riff on it: In choosing this story to tell I knew that I was taking ing towards the end of his life—a 60-year-old man taking care of an
on a challenge—the challenge of telling a story inside a confined 18-year-old girl....the movement is generational rather than among
space without boring myself or the reader. Not a unique challenge; people in a single generation. One of the things I like in that scene,
other novels have taken it on in different ways, accepting similar as in the hide-the-thimble scene earlier in the book, is that in both
restraints to their advantage. Moby-Dick, for instance. The crew is the Count has a good adversary. On the one hand he plays a game to
small and once they get on the boat after the first hundred pages or relate to someone of a young age, but on the other he ends up under-
so, they don’t get off again. So it’s a small group in a small space for estimating them. They surprise us. As Sofia does in the games of Zut.
hundreds and hundreds of pages. In taking on such confines, the way Also it is an instance in which the simplest things can have such
to make the story interesting is to bring the world inside. To them. resonance. The route along the way to taking a child from 5 to 20
Through literary illusions, through a discussion of commerce and is a constant dynamic of having the rug pulled out from under us.
of science—biology and marine life, the stars—of Shakespeare. By [laughs] It’s about parenting. But at the same time it’s about the daily
bringing the world in, making it a rich experience inside the small patterns of life. Small habits. The dailiness of life can become the rich-
space. ness of life regardless of circumstances. I’m interested in investigating
 children, Nina and Sofia. Can you talk about this?
AT: Can you explain the notion of the personal as you mean it?
BB: I guess the question stems from the fact that the book is set in
Stalinist Russia and the notion that in the West it’s all about the indi-
vidual and in this Russia that is new to the Count it’s about the collec-
tive. That there’s this dichotomy. It’s almost as if they’re opposed.
AT: Before we get into Commu-
nism and the Soviet era, let’s talk
about this nuanced notion of yours
outside of the realm of politics. The
notion of the personal outside of
politics, outside of history was cer-
tainly of great interest in the 19th
century novel which centers around
the question of a single person’s
how the simplest things can resonate in terms of personal purpose. In
position—Madam Bovary in the
terms of the foundation for serious relationships.
context of an emerging commercial
BB: In the end, the Count creates a framework for his existence that middle class, or Dickens characters
seems to not only fill and ease his days but also to allow or even who were individuals but among
encourage him to go deeper into his own past—into his relationship vast numbers of the poor. And War
with his sister and with the land where he grew up. Turns out this is a and Peace. Its central philosophi-
perfect way to plumb the depths of character. Did this back and forth cal investigation is what the role
between memory and the present just come as you wrote or was it of the individual is in terms of politics. Of war. Of historical change.
done purposefully as a way of examining character? Is it Napoleon who is responsible or is it a waitress or serf at home,
AT: I’m an outliner. I work with a very detailed outline so that by the or the will of 10,000 or a soldier in the field? Are they as important
time I start chapter one I have designed everything in the chap- to the movement of history and western philosophy as Napoleon?
ter—the setting, the backgrounds of the characters, the imagery—in There’s a long history in Western literature and philosophy of asking
outline form. As a part of that, I create a backstory I don’t intend to the question, Where does the individual begin and end? How does he
use. But there are few novels in which you don’t have to look back if or she relate to family, to history, to commerce, to society in ever-
you’re painting a character in midlife. It’s natural to draw on those widening circles? Tolstoy would say both. The novel helps us explore
elements. To start with where they were born...It becomes an issue of the ambiguities and contradictions where characters are central but
craft to do it artfully. In terms of craft, it’s important to know how to where there is the sweep of time and people as backdrop. In the end
reference just enough to give readers what they must know but not it all matters. But the exploration of the ideas in terms of individual
enough to bog them down with hundreds of pages of what happened characters is central.
before the age of 25. Craft in terms of economy. Knowing how much The Soviet Era is a very serious political backdrop, you’re right, mov-
and also when to introduce it, when and how to deliver the informa- ing to the political. That transition [to Communism] is full of good
tion. I could have opened A Gentleman in Moscow with a chapter on and bad. If you look at the American vision of the Soviet Union, our
all that had happened before the action starts, but it’s often better not generation saw things in stark terms of shortages, political repression,
to do that. It’s more pleasurable to have things pop up. That’s part of artistic repression, spies. This was so simplistic. People did get mar-
the challenge of the design. ried. They had children, celebrated holidays. They related to classical
BB: One of the hallmarks of a not-wonderful writer is exactly when music and to literature. The ballet, chess. Life as we knew it was going
they introduce a character’s history in a longwinded way; frontload- on there too.
ing facts can seem amateurish. Russia is both. The challenge of writing of the Soviet era is knowing
AT: Yes! I’ve been writing since I was a kid, but in Rules, in the first how to balance both—the dangers and the worst aspects of that era
draft of what was to become my first published novel, a character along with the good. Our view was very much a Cold War interpreta-
does exactly that. When Katy introduces herself she gives us a line tion which has not helped us to understand Russia in the postwar era.
that tells the readers about her past—that she was an immigrant. I wanted the book to bring to the surface the contradictions. Because
And that scene drove me crazy. It also felt out of character with Katy, when the Soviets came to power there were millions of illiterate peas-
who kept her cards close to herself; you had to do your best to keep ants who didn’t want to go back to serfdom. The revolution sprang
up with her. I decided to strike that early line out when she went to from a genuine impulse to make changes for the good. Ten years
a Russian speakeasy, because when she was leaving the owner spoke down the road those who had been serfs didn’t want to go back to
to her in Russian and she responded in Russian. Her knowing Rus- serfdom. Also, Czarist Russia had been a powerful nation until weak-
sian was a surprise. It gave the reader what was needed. It worked ened by World War I. The Soviets vaulted them back to the forefront
so much better that way, which reinforced my conviction to avoid of global events. By WWII they were again one of the world’s power-
weighing down the beginning of a book. ful nations.
BB: There is a growing awareness, in the action and in references Depicting the variety of viewpoints of those involved in that transi-
to works of literature, that the personal is all-important—even to a tion meant creating characters who help us see the different ways
character who is balanced, literally, on the razor’s edge of history. This history is unfolding, different ways to view it. Like Mishka, who
is evident in the Count’s relationship with his sister and with the two believed in the revolution while it was happening, wanted it to hap-
 That was not the only magical mo-
ment, either. In a critical moment
the ghost of the one-eyed cat appears
when the Count returns home. Both
scenes seem natural in terms of the
story and in the way they are told.
They are also in harmony to some
degree with the magical in Russian
literature. In Gogol and much later
with Bulgakov. It is in keeping with
Gogol, in the stories “The Overcoat”
or “The Nose.” He used magic in an
iconic way to profile the shortcom-
ings of Russian society. He had to be
pen, but later became disillusioned, and Nina, who was a believer in careful in Czarist Russian so he used both magic and satire. As does
the revolution as she came of age but who became disillusioned, and Bulgakov in The Master and Margarita when the devil comes to
Jozef who came from a rough background and fought in the war as a Moscow. The Metropol Hotel is there too. But that [demonic] black
communist and thought they were doing valuable things which they cat wandering around Moscow... Bringing in a little magic creates
were—vaulting Russia into the future. harmony with a thread of Russian literature.
BB: Which they did with women... BB: You use the wonderful treasures which were once part of the
Count’s life and which furnish the hotel (or are hidden away in the
AT: Yes. That happened the day after the revolution. They were way
storeroom, to be brought out when the proper occasion arises) to
ahead of America with women. And in a secular sense. In some ways
symbolically detail the arc of history. The basement in particular is
they were way ahead of the curve. Individuals help us see the ways
a kind of archeological dig which showcases not just a bygone era,
history is unfolding and what it might mean to different individu-
but also the way the past is secretly valued in the present. Could you
als in terms of their time. And the Count comes from a very specific
say something about the old and beautiful—its value and, conversely,
time. But all of the characters are central to understanding their time
perhaps, whether there is any harm in glorifying it? You’ve talked
in different ways.
about this but this might hit a different angle.
BB: The miracle of the reappearing bees on the rooftop seemed the
AT: The answer is in your question again here. I’ll hand you the
one place in the novel imbued quite literally with magic. Because it
mic. [laughs] Your questions are better answers. The book is clearly
was of a piece with the Count’s memories of home, it gave them, too,
populated with an array of objects that play a role in representing
a nearly supernatural aura, one that put me in mind of And Quiet
time, looking back to the past, and there’s been a major change in the
Flows the Don. Or, again, War and Peace. This seemed, at least for
landscape of the nation as a whole, multiple befores and afters. Ob-
me, to somehow be the heart of the book. Did you mean it to be?
jects help us understand the transitions. It’s natural to human life to
AT: There are at least 10, 20, 30 instances like that, and there need to value objects, as the Count says. He takes better and better care of his
be, in order to be all things to all readers. Different things resonate possessions as they’re winnowed down until he only has a handful.
with different people due to differences in their own lives, or in what They’re all he has left to help him remember the past.
matters to them in terms of their backgrounds, or whether they’re old
On the other hand, as you pointed out, there’s also the broader story
or young, rich or poor...
of objects like those in the basement of the hotel. They were locked
BB: So it says more about me than the scene... [laughs] up during the revolution but serve the pomp and circumstance in
AT: It may, but you’re right, that is an important scene. The bees this time too. So they are central. But remember when he recounts
change the Count’s life and launch his exploration of purpose. He’s the tale of the bells? They are removed from the cathedral and turned
ready to throw in the towel. What the beekeeper explains is that into cannons. But they had originally been forged from cannons. The
the bees bring the pollen, the flavor, into the honey, and the honey arc of history as seen in its objects. Cannons to bells and bells to can-
holds it. Reminding the count, who believes he’s been erased and no nons. A way of investigating life in Russia.
longer matters—maybe for good reason, he acknowledges—of this.
When the Count thinks, My time
has come and gone, the honey is
a reminder that things can persist
in strange ways. The taste from an
apple orchard 500 miles away can
be brought to mind by the taste of
honey. It exists in an altered form
but is still of value. Someone has to
be that hidden existence of the past
lingering around under the assump-
tion that it is [still] valuable for this
good thing to persist in this small
and simple way. So yes, it is a mo-
ment of magic.
 over 20 years of ongoing interest in Russia by the time I sat down to
write. Twenty years of familiarity as a foundation for the story.
As I mentioned, I am an outliner. I write a draft from an outline and
no one reads it. Then it is revised from beginning to end at least two
more times. In the third draft, the smaller characters, who were all in
the outline and the first draft, come closer and closer to the surface.
They’re impatient, their point of view is more important, they’re
almost demanding their time on the stage. If I look at Anna and
Mishka, the page count for each increases significantly from draft
one to the final draft. They become more and more important to the
novel as their personalities begin to express themselves in contrast to
the main characters.
I know one challenge of presenting all the different points of view in
Russian life through the characters is that the novel becomes more
BB: The Count’s new position in the hotel where he had lived in such
and more crowded with these characters, these points of view of the
luxury is an ideal situation in which to examine social status in an
privileged class, aristocrats, the foreigners who come and go, the
upstairs/downstairs kind of way, with a comrade or two thrown in.
people who work in the hotel...It becomes kind of Marx Brothers-
Seems in this instance that although the mighty no longer rise to the
esque. It makes the room more and more crowded in a slapstick
top because of inherited wealth, they do so by scaling the bureaucrat-
kind of way. Becomes kind of a joke. Like the geese in the hall and
ic ladder—not at all the same thing as success through merit. Witness
all the guests popping out of their doors. Or the celebration after
Bishop. Could you comment on this in terms of the way you might
the piano competition. Obviously the Count, Anna and Sofia had to
evaluate the system under Stalin?
be there but then the Chef and Andrey would insist on coming and
AT: Under Stalinism membership in the party became a form of then there’s a knock on the door—the concierge comes in to tell him
privilege. It brought you better apartments, better food, better hous- someone is waiting, and then the Bishops shows up. It can be sort of
ing, more authority, and also more opportunities for your children, spontaneous. This would never play out with just the three charac-
to grow up and be in the communist party and live that same life. It ters. They [the others] demand their time on the stage.
mirrored or duplicated aristocracy, no question. But other equalities
BB: The humor adds, too. And reduces the risk of sentimentality.
survived. A middle class of a kind. But nonetheless there was a privi-
leged class, no question. The hotel was a means of examining that. AT: That kind of scene can be scary or moving or comic. But in this
case it starts out comic and does end on a sober note. Yes.
I read in The New York Times today that upward mobility is dimin-
ishing here. If you are born in the bottom 10% economically, where BB: Thank you so much. For answering all my questions. It was really
100 years ago there was 25% or 30% chance to move up or down, you interesting. And thank you for writing this miraculous book. Con-
now have a 5% chance of not remaining there. Ten percent at most. gratulations on its publication in paperback!
And if you are born in the top 10% you likewise have a 90% chance of AT: Nice to meet you again, and I hope I see you when I’m there!
staying there with access to education, to health care, better child care
and child development. And the ability to pass on wealth is grow- BB: Wouldn’t miss it for the world.
ing as well. This is the reality here in America in real time. Our more
struggling states look at one another with suspicion. It is a reality
both here and there. It’s also an aspect in Rules of Civility. And an
ongoing interest of mine.
BB: This is a big, sweeping, romantic, if ironic novel, more along the
lines of War and Peace (with a touch of Laurence Sterne or Henry
Fielding thrown in) than Anna Karenina, and, like War and Peace,
it is populated by a large and fascinating cast of characters from all
walks of life—which, given the small confines of the Hotel Metropol,
makes it a miraculous achievement. So, a two-part question: did you
intend this to be such a complex and compendious (although utterly
entertaining I hasten to add) novel or did it grow naturally into its
vibrant and lively self? And did you know as much as you seem to
about Russian history when you began writing A Gentleman in Mos-
cow or did you learn along the way?
AT: I’ll go backwards. I don’t pick a topic and then research it and
then write a book. That’s not how I work. I write a book about a
subject I’ve long been interested in. Like Rules of Civility. I’d been a
fan of the ‘20s and ’30s since a kid. Read the novels, seen the movies,
listened to the music, studied the art movements. I used that famil-
iarity as a basis to start the book. It was a similar dynamic with A
Gentleman in Moscow. It started long ago with an interest in Russian
literature and then the avant-garde and then the soviets...So I had