How to develop counterpoint ideas in Jazz Guitar
Comping?
(Focusing on two lines improvised comping)
I have been thinking about this question for a long time, the main reason I
want to dig in this topic is because Two voices counterpoint applied in the
guitar can aloud me or other guitarist to avoid thinking harmony as passive
chord shapes. It really make more sense to me to play two voices well
connected than playing shapes of chords. I am also aiming to collect the
sources I found useful to study and create some kind of guide for other
guitar players, in this way they will already have a selection of the material I
studied and how I applied it.
I only found a few etudes books and recordings about this topic, but is
something guitar player have been doing for decades in jazz and I really want
understand how to develop this “Comping technique”.
- Avoiding chords shapes
- Collecting and creating material
- Find a clear path to share
( Answer 1)
I think that to develop this way of comping I have to learn or educate my
ears to this language. Doing transcription can give me an idea of the sound I
want to create, but I will have to search for possibility on the instrument on
my own. Playing counterpoint on the guitar is something guitar players have
been doing for a lot of time, I will not discover something new with this
research I will just get used to this sound of comping and maybe I will nd an
easier way to develop it and share it. To conclude in order to develop this
comping I think I have to research and transcribe how great players used this
technique, learn the sound of it and at the same time try to shape my
comping based on all the informations I managed to collect. I think it will
take more than one or two years of studying, but as I sad in the beginning is
something I really want to dig into.
State of art
I don’t think I am the rst one asking these question, Jimmy Wyble published
three collection of two voices jazz etudes in the 70’s. His books are mainly
composed by etudes without explanation of the process, so we only have
material but not a clear answers. Jim Hall is also one of the jazz guitar with
contrapuntal vocabulary in his playing, but we only have recordings. Bob
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Plikington wrote a book about counterpoint in jazz arranging, it can be useful
and related to what I am try to answer, but it is not about guitar.
Steve Herberman is nowadays the most active “researcher” in this eld, he
has some transcription and instructional video on sale in his website.
Ted Greene did instructional videos about Baroque counterpoint in jazz
guitar and in his website it is possible to nd transcriptions of etudes, videos
and recordings.
Sources
Books:
Wyble, Jimmy. Jimmy Wyble’s Classical/Country. Playback Music Publishing
Company, 1973.
This book is out of production, but it propose seven counterpoint etudes for
jazz guitar By Jimmy Wyble. Every etudes has a special comment by the
author with some tips and techniques to use. This book already gives me a
lot of material to process and analyze.
Denisch, Beth. Contemporary Counterpoint: Theory & Application. Hal
Leonard Corporation, 2017.
This book can help me to develop counterpoint in a more modern way and
especially it explain how to create counterpoint over modern harmonies. This
is extremely useful because if I want to comp a standard or some chord
changes I need to know how to do it.
Goodrick, Mick. The Advancing Guitarist: Applying Guitar Concepts &
Techniques. Hal Leonard Corporation, 1987.
This is the most famous jazz guitar method and in one chapter it propose
intervals studies forcing the student to experiment with parallel motion and
contrary motion.
Jacobs, Sid. The Bill Evans Guitar Book. Richmond Organization, 2002.
This book is useful because it shows how to organize pianistic voicing on
guitar using Bill Evans’s transcription.
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Articles
JazzTimes. “Jim Hall: The Emperor of Cool - JazzTimes,” May 9, 2019. https://
jazztimes.com/features/profiles/jim-hall-the-emperor-of-cool/.
This article doesn’t focus primarily on counterpoint, but it is a collection of
comment about Jim Hall, made by great Musicians. It also deal with Jim
Hall’s career. Thanks to this article I can search in Jim Hall’s discography
more easily and look for the relevant composition and recordings linked to
my topic.
Seguin, Marc. “Ed Bickert (1932-2019),” January 20, 2014. n.d. https://
www.jazzguitarlessons.net/blog/ed-bickert.
This article about Ed Bickert give some useful information about technique
and voicings for example: playing with ngers give to the chords a more
clear sound and underline the inside voices or countermelody.
Recordings
Terry Carter. (2010, February 23). Sid Jacobs - The Art of Two Line Improvising [Video].
YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PyTC9t9PLc
In this video Sid Jacobs is explaining Jimmy Wyble’s etudes.
Beth Marlis. “Jimmy Wyble Clinic Feb 21 2007 at Musicians Institute (GIT),” November 17,
2021. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPXzyZxJBL8.
This is a masterclass by Jimmy Wyble featuring Sid Jacobs.
Timothy Lerch. “Tim Lerch and John Stowell - Embraceable You ‘The Art of the Duo,’” August
30, 2022. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e-eoKa66GI.
In this video both and John Stowell and Tim Lerch comp in the way I want to
research about.
Composition
Lage ,Julian. 2021. “Boo’s Blues.” Track #2 on Squint, Blue Note Records.
Lage, Julian. 2021. “Squint.” Track # 3 on Squint, Blue Note Records.
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Hall, Jim. Metheny, Pat. “Improvisation n.1.” Track #4 on Jim Hall and Pat
Metheny, 1999.
Schertzinger, Victor. “ I remember you” Track # 2 on Ed Bickert/Lorne Lofsky
Quartet, Cornerstone Records inc. 2022.
Musicians linked with my research
John Stowell: His way of comping even if doesn’t focus too much on 2 lines
is very impressive for the use of inner voices movements.
Bebo Ferra: i used to study with him and showed me a lot of techniques for
orchestrating two lines on the guitar.
Sid Jacobs: he was a close friend of Jimmy Wyble, I cited one of his video in
the recordings section.
Steve Herberman: He would be really helpful and valuable for my research,
but it is not responding to any of my emails.
These are my main references, for two reasons: they can easily be
contacted(except Herberman) and are in my opinion the most competent in
this eld.
Additional sources
I think that is mandatory for doing this research to study Bach’s two voice
inventions and the evolution of the technique I want to apply on the guitar.
Also studying some classical guitar etudes can help me, but I still have to
nd the right material.
I am considering also to ask to some of the Classical guitar player studying
at KCB if I can assist to their practice session.
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Methodology
Step 1. Ask
To answer my question in the most clear way, I will take contact with the
musicians I mentioned in the paragraph “Musicians linked to my research
question” and ask them how did they manage to develop that style of
comping. I am sure I will nd some common exercise or way of thinking and
with the common elements I will already have some solid material to study.
Step 2. Transcription
Doing transcription will help me to learn the language and direct my ears to
the sound I want to produce on the guitar
Step 3. Practice
I will have to verify and practice all the material I will collect and I will make a
selection of the thins I nd useful and the one who are not essential for the
research.
Step 4. Find my way
At the same time I want to nd my own way of developing this techniques, it
will takes time, but I think it is mandatory to do that because otherwise I will
sound like the copy of what I am studying. The aim of my research is learn
this way of comping, not to something that has already be done.
Step 5. Ask again
Asking for feedback will be extremely important, I want to make sure that the
comping I will develop will be clear and solid. Teachers, students and any
musicians will be valuable sources for this, because they can underline all
the weak points by just listening or playing with me. For example if I play
with one of my school mates I can ask "How does the comping fell to you
while we were playing?”, the answer will give me ideas to work on.
Step 6. Composing
Composing will show me if I am integrating this way of playing in my
mindset, and it will be clear if I am actually learning something or not.
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Step 7. Playing
This research cannot be based or be con ned only in the practice area of
music, playing on stage will give me an idea of what is possible to do using
this techniques and what “can’t be done”. Only playing in concerts will aloud
me to see how far this research can go.
Areas of study
Since the research will be about comping, I will need to study: Jazz Harmony
and Rhythm, vocabulary and repertoire as I am doing, but I will need to focus
on voice leading and counterpoint.
Actually I think that in order to get some results with this research I have to
make Harmony, rhythm, voice leading, repertoire… work together, I don’t
think I can exclude some of this areas. I won’t probably focus too much on
Biographies or History informations, but I will have to look for recordings and
maybe look for connection between the musicians I mentioned earlier.
I also think it will be more practical and e cient to work on simple material
and develop something on that, than going very far and not be able to
successfully succeed.
For example I won’t need to use complex harmonic substitution, maybe it
will be more clear to develop my comping ideas over simple harmony rst.
This is something I will know when I will start my research.
To summarize I will focus on the areas I am practicing daily like: Harmony,
Rhythm, repertoire, vocabulary and interplay and I will try to apply the
concepts I will learn about counterpoint in my practice.
Context
The general context of this research is Comping in particular in improvised
music applied on the guitar.
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COMPING
IMPROVISED
MELODIES COUNTERPOINT
RHYTHM
TWO LINES HARMONY
INTERPLAY
CREATIVE
FUNCTIONAL
Plan
Practicing will be the rst thing I will do, because I already have some material to study
and apply on the instruments.
I can approach the practice related to my research in three di erent ways:
1 :Create two voices movement starting from bebop scales in contrary motion.
2 : deconstructing chord shapes
3: improvise two lines
All the three di erent steps will be applied on cadences or changes of standards or
existing tonal harmonies.
Recording
Recording myself will help me to see if I am improving and listen to my playing from the
listener side. Improvising on my recordings will also give me an idea about the stability of
my comping.
Try to play with di erent ensembles
Play in di erent contexts can be helpful, specially for underlining the weak point or the
strength of the technique I want to research about.
I would love to play at least every day with someone, each day with a di erent ensemble.
To give an idea of what I mean
Days Ensamble
Monday DUO Bass, Guitar
Tuesday TRIO Bass, Guitar, Drums
Wednsday QUARTET Bass, Guitar, Drums, piano
Thursday QUINTET Bass, Guitar, Drums, piano, Sax
Friday DUO Guitar, Drums
Saturday QUARTET GUitar, Bass, Bass Clarinet,
Drums
Sunday TRIO Guitar, Trumpet, Bass
These are examples, but playing in di erent contexts will help me to better understand
the nature of the sound I am looking for. Hopefully I will also learn how to adapt it in
di erent situations. At the same time organizing a x schedule can be interesting for
improving my playing in all these settings and being able to interact with them weekly.
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Answer 2
Even at the end of this assignment I think that what I have to do is to educate my ear or at
list educate my hands to play what I would love to ear, in this case contrapuntal ideas on
my comping. I already did my interview and John Stowell told me that what he did was
experimenting on the guitar and listening to people who are visualizing the guitar in a
similar way. I think the plan I did will help me to get close to my aim, but my main concern
right now is that I don’t know when I will see results and how long is going to take to start
playing what I really want to ear.
How to develop contrapuntal ideas on jazz Guitar comping?
By listening, aiming to a speci c sound and being able to play it. Technically speaking,
etudes and transcriptions can give enough material to understand the basic movements.
Interplay: practice with all the possible ensembles.
Work Cited
Wyble, Jimmy. Jimmy Wyble’s Classical/Country. Playback Music Publishing
Company, 1973.
Denisch, Beth. Contemporary Counterpoint: Theory & Application. Hal
Leonard Corporation, 2017.
Goodrick, Mick. The Advancing Guitarist: Applying Guitar Concepts &
Techniques. Hal Leonard Corporation, 1987.
Jacobs, Sid. The Bill Evans Guitar Book. Richmond Organization, 2002.
JazzTimes. “Jim Hall: The Emperor of Cool - JazzTimes,” May 9, 2019. https://
jazztimes.com/features/profiles/jim-hall-the-emperor-of-cool/.
Seguin, Marc. “Ed Bickert (1932-2019),” January 20, 2014. n.d. https://
www.jazzguitarlessons.net/blog/ed-bickert.
Timothy Lerch. “Tim Lerch and John Stowell - Embraceable You ‘The Art of the
Duo,’” August 30, 2022. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e-eoKa66GI.
Lage ,Julian. 2021. “Boo’s Blues.” Track #2 on Squint, Blue Note Records.
Lage, Julian. 2021. “Squint.” Track # 3 on Squint, Blue Note Records.
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Hall, Jim. Metheny, Pat. “Improvisation n.1.” Track #4 on Jim Hall and Pat
Metheny, 1999.
Schertzinger, Victor. “ I remember you” Track # 2 on Ed Bickert/Lorne Lofsky
Quartet, Cornerstone Records inc. 2022.
