ALEXIS B.

FINLAN
COURT REPORTER
1201 Hamlet Hill Drive
West Chester, Pa. 19380
610 513 0177

October 6, 2016

Renee E. Mazer

Attn:

FOR TRANSCRIPT IN THE MATTER OF:

Renee E. Mazer v. Frederick D. Fox

Comment in Oct. 20, 2018 email from

Renee Mazer on this testimony:

Dear Art,

From that testimony you have proof that a month after

Judge Bortner heard my son say about his dad, "the whole
week he kept hitting me, like kicked me, slapped me and
all that. One time he hit me on the head so hard that
was another time. And I was a teen (sic - in pain) and
my eyes were watering." (attached transcript - top of
page 27) Judge Bortner continued his dad's full legal
and physical custody. He not only ignored my son's
testimony but also disregarded medical records
by pediatrician Rebecca Druash documenting injuries and
abuse;

The transcript also makes the suicide risk being caused

by my ex having full custody palpable. In response to
Judge Bortner asking Fletcher about the time he called
911 Fletcher states," I was crying because I was so sad I
was only allowed to call my mom once a week. I kept
crying and crying about it. I decided to call the
police. I was holding a knife up to my hand." (attached
transcript - middle of page 46)

The entire attached transcript is harrowing. The stories

Fletcher recounts are backed up by a plethora of hospital
records, police reports and by the pediatrician records
which she authenticated by coming to court. There was a
documented bruise where my ex kicked Fletcher. I have
the heart breaking 911 call which was played for Judge
Bortner in court and I have a corroborating letter from
the Nantucket Sheriff's office.

Renee

Transcript excerpt of hearing held before Judge David

Bortner, in Courtroom 6, 201 W. Market Street, West
Chester, Pennsylvania on January 2, 2015, on the above
mentioned case.

$ 72.00

Thank you
 1

1 IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS

2 FOR THE COUNTY OF CHESTER, PENNSYLVANIA

4 RENEE E. MAZER,

6 vs. Docket No. 2010-12435-CU

7

8 FREDERICK D. FOX

10 January 2, 2015
Courtroom No. 6
11 Chester County Justice Center
201 W. Market Street
12 West Chester, Pennsylvania

13
BEFORE:
14 HON. DAVID F. BORTHER, J.

15 APPEARANCES:

16 RENEE E.
MAZER, ESQ. For Rene
Mazer
17
SAUL D. LEVIT, ESQ. and
18 ALITA A. ROVITO
For Frederick
Fox
19

20
Alexis B. Finlan
21 Official Court Reporter

22

23

24
 17

1 THE COURT: Okay. Come back

and I'll get

2 everybody set up. Thanks.

3 (Recess taken.)

4 (The following took place in Judge's chambers:)

5 THE COURT: So you

have a seat there. I want to

6 start out, Fletcher, by saying -- Mr. Levit, could you

push

7 that door shut behind you. I

meant to do that. Thanks.

8 See how it's set up here?

9 FLETCHER FOX: Yeah.

10 THE COURT: As I said to you in my

secretary's

11 area, I have to talk to you with these other people

in the

12 room.

13 FLETCHER FOX: I know.

14 THE COURT:
That's what I'm required to do. If I

15 could do it differently, I might, but this is the

way we've

16 got to proceed.

17 So I can tell you, I've heard an awful lot

about

18 you over the course

of a few months. And I'm pleased that

19 I finally have the opportunity to meet you.

20 FLETCHER FOX: Okay.

21 THE COURT: And I want to tell you

a little bit

22 right
 17
at the beginning about my role in this case. I don't

23 have my robe on. My robe is over there

hanging on the back

24 of the door. I decided just to wear my suit

in speaking
 1

1 with you.

2 This case is before me like a lot of other cases

3 I have, and it's called a custody trial, and that is the

4 type of case where the judge is required, because

generally

5 a mother and a father are separated or a mother and a

6 father are divorced, and the child or children,

therefore,

7 can't be living in the same household under the same roof

8 as mom and dad because mom and dad are no longer

together.

9 FLETCHER FOX: Okay.

10 THE COURT: In a perfect world,

this happens

11 sometimes, but not very often, mom and dad can agree
on all

12 of these arrangements that have to be made because

the two

13 of them are no longer living together under the same

roof.

14 That's the perfect world. I

wish we lived in a perfect

15 world, but we don't. So in those

cases, and it happens

16 pretty often --

17 FLETCHER FOX: I know.

18 THE COURT: where mom and dad

can't agree,

19 then it's up to a person like myself to learn as

much as I

20 can about the issues that are involved in a case, to

meet

21 at the appropriate time with the child, and to learn

 2
about

22 their thoughts and feelings on a number of issues

that may

23 be important to my decision.

24 My duty is to consider all of the evidence

that's
1 presented, and then
I make a decision. Because mom and dad

2 in a given case are unable to make a decision, I make the

3 decisions that need to be made, judging in terms of what

is

4 in the best interests of the child.

5 FLETCHER FOX: Okay.

6 THE COURT: Now , sometimes that's

exactly what

7 mom wants in a case. Sometimes

it's exactly what dad wants

8 in a case. More often than not, my decision

may be

9 somewhat pleasing to dad, somewhat pleasing to mom.

10 Neither one of them really likes it all that much,

but I'm

11 the guy who's got

to make the decision. And as I said, my

12 obligation is to make a determination based upon

whatever's

13 told to me as to what's in the best interests of the

child.

14 That's a tough job that I have and I recognize that

is a

15 challenge. And I'm going to get to meet

with you for a

16 little while here this

afternoon. But I've never met you

17 before.

18 FLETCHER FOX: I know.

19 THE COURT: It's likely I may not

see you again

20 any time soon. So one of the many factors

that I have to

21 consider in making my decision is what are the

thoughts and

22 feelings of the child. Do they have

an opinion as to what

23 might be in their best

interests? But just as I said a

24 moment ago, I generally don't do everything that a

mom is
1 asking
for or everything that a dad is asking for. I'm not

2 required, just because a child says this is what I want,

3 that
I then as a judge say, okay, this is what it is. If I

4 would do that, I wouldn't be using my mind, I wouldn't be

5 considering everything that's I just would be a

presented.

6 mouthpiece --

7 FLETCHER FOX:
Okay.

8 THE COURT: for a child. So I'm

required to

9 consider the
child's thoughts and feelings. I say child.

10 I probably
ought to be calling you a young man. I think

11 you turned 16 not too long ago.

12 FLETCHER FOX: Two months ago.

13 I have a lot to tell you about.

14 THE COURT: I do expect that.

And we're going to

15 get there real quickly.

16 Do you have any questions -- the purpose of

17 you're being here today is for me to get information

about

18 your thoughts and beliefs. And

it sounds like you're about

19 ready to tell me or to answer some questions that I

have.

20 Do you have any questions about my role as

the

21 judge in this case or--

 22 FLETCHER FOX: Can you --

23 THE COURT: or for purposes of

today's -- our

24 meeting today and having this conversation?

 1

1 FLETCHER FOX: If I want my mom

to have full

2 custody over me --

3 THE COURT: Well --

4 FLETCHER FOX: can you make that

decision?

5 THE COURT: Well, that's one of

the choices that

6 I would be considering. But I --

I'm required to give your

7 thoughts and opinions on that subject and other subjects,

8 I'm required
to give them appropriate weight. But, again,

9 as I mentioned a moment ago, I don't always do what mom

10 wants,
what dad wants, or what the child wants. But it's

11 important for me to know what that is so I can make

an

12 informed decision.

13 FLETCHER FOX: Okay.

14 THE COURT: Fair enough?

15 FLETCHER FOX: Yes.

16 THE COURT: Any other questions

about the purpose

17 of today before we start?

18 FLETCHER FOX: I guess I'm okay.

19 THE COURT: All right. Good. If you're not, let

20 me know.

21 The other thing I probably ought to mention, I'll

22 say more about this when we're wrapping up, I'm not
going

23 to make my decision today.

 2
I've heard a number of days of

24 information in this case, evidence in the case, and

you
1 ought to know right now that it's now like 10 after two

2 o'clock in the afternoon. I'm

not going to have a decision

3 in this case this afternoon.

I've got a lot to consider.

4 And it's very likely that I may not have my decision out

5 for a matter of weeks, four weeks, five weeks, something

6 like that. So in the meantime, it's not

likely that

7 anything is going to change from the way it is now.

8 Whether something changes from the way it is now when my

9 decision comes out, I can't tell you that because I

haven't

10 made my decision. I've got some thoughts

about this case,

11 but I haven't decided. All right?

12 FLETCHER FOX: Actually I have

one more question.

13I'm worried I'm not going to remember everything I want

to

14say.

15 THE COURT: All right. Don't worry

about that.

16 Do you have -- I'm going to give you a lot of

opportunities

17 you know what? I feel exactly the

same way a lot of

18days when I go out on the bench.

19 FLETCHER FOX: Am I allowed to

write you a letter

20 talking about what I want?

21 THE COURT: What we're going to

 try to do is try

22 to cover as much of it today, and hopefully between

the

23 questions I ask and the things you want to tell me,

nothing

24 will fall through the boards, and we'll get it.

 1 So, look, since we've done that, what do you
want

2 to tell me? Let's start off with that.

3 FLETCHER FOX: So yesterday when I showed my

dad

4 my Facebook friends he gave he lectured me if you're

5 friends with your morn then you need to be friends with

me.

6 He almost tried getting me on Facebook with him too,

and I

7 decided I wasn't willing to do it.

8 THE COURT: Okay.

9 FLETCHER FOX: And when his cell phone didn't

10 work for a week, no one else let me use their cell

phone to

11 call my morn.
12 THE COURT: When did that happen?

13 FLETCHER FOX: That was like all of last

week.
14 THE COURT: Okay.

15 FLETCHER FOX: And I think that I've been in

kept
16 prison. I do not like my school.

17 THE COURT: You think?

18 FLETCHER FOX: Kept in prison.

19 I do not like my school.

20 THE COURT: That's some of the questions on

my
21 list, but you go ahead and tell me right now.

22 FLETCHER FOX: So they are only letting me

have
23 one 30 minute phone call with my rnon a week and letting
me

24 have six visits with my morn a year, and my dad too, but
I'm
 1

1 dealing with my mom

more than my dad. And actually they

2 let me call my dad twice a week but that's besides the

3 point. You don't -- oh.

4 During Thanksgiving they wouldn't let me come

5 home. I was supposed to have a four day

supervised visit

6 with my mom at Chamberlain and they shortened it to one

day

7 instead.

8 THE COURT: When you say they, who

do you mean?

9 FLETCHER FOX: Like the school

did.

10 And when I tell people how I don't like my

dad,

11 how he's mean, they don't -- no one there really

listens to

12 me, even my therapist doesn't.

13 THE COURT: Okay.

14 FLETCHER FOX: And I want my mom

to have full

15 custody over me. I can

go back on all the stories. They

16 wouldn't
-- my brother called me on my birthday. They

17 didn't even tell me he tried calling me.

18 THE COURT: Again, who is they?

19 FLETCHER FOX: The school. I

keep saying they.

20 THE COURT: That's all right. It's important for

21 me to understand exactly who you
mean.

22 What else do you want to tell me right off

 2
the

23 bat before I get into some of my questions?

24 FLETCHER FOX: I have a

lot actually. So when I
1 was at the UMass Hospital, my mom was forced to leave and

2 they wouldn't let me call her again for three and a half

3 weeks afterwards. For a short amount of

time I had two

4 phone calls with my mother.

After that, I went back to one

5 phone call a week. And, oh, all the

phone calls have to be

6 monitored.

7 THE COURT: Okay.

8 FLETCHER FOX: And I'm just

scared I'm going to

9 forget to say everything.

10 THE COURT: Look, I don't know what

I can do to

11 make you feel more comfortable on that other than

you don't

12 have to think that you've got to get everything and

13 remember everything, because I suspect when I ask

some of

14 my questions, we'll be covering things that's in

addition

15 to these.

16 FLETCHER FOX: I do not want to

be at Chamberlain

17 any longer. I think my father has abuse

having full

18 custody over me.

19 THE COURT: All right.

20 FLETCHER FOX: I wish my mother

had full custody

21 over me. I would like for that to change, if

it can.

22 THE COURT: Okay. I'm not

 following up on a lot

23 of these now because I probably will have some

follow-up.

24 I'm going to spend some time in more detail about

1 Chamberlain School with you, but I want to give you the

2 chance to get as much out on the table, get out on the

3 table the things that you were thinking about coming in

4 here.

5 FLETCHER FOX: When I was at the

hospital, they

6 wouldn't let my mom be in the room with me without having

7 someone else there watching us.

8 THE COURT: They would be?

9 FLETCHER FOX: My dad wouldn't

let my mom be in

10 the room in the hospital without someone there

watching me.

11 And my Dad won't ever let me visit my mom like when

I was

12 here in Philly.

13 THE COURT: On this recent school

break?

14 FLETCHER FOX: Yes. On Mother's

Day, they

15 wouldn't let me call my

mom back. After I tried calling,

16 they wouldn't let me call my mom back on Mother's

Day.

17 They wouldn't let her visit me because they couldn't

do

18 both that and a visit that was two weeks later,

which I

19 find ridiculous.

20 And my dad has tried manipulating me,

yelling at

21 me and hitting me. Two years ago he

yelled at me because I
22 was telling people
that he had hit me. He said your mom is

23 not going to get full custody over you, and I'm not
going

24 to pay for you to go to

camp. That's what he told me. And
 1

1 there's one time the whole week he kept hitting me, like

2 kicked me, slapped me

and all that. One time he hit me on

3 the head so hard

that was another time. And I was a teen

4 and my eyes were watering.

5 THE COURT: Do you have any -- can

you tell me

6 when these things happened recently?

7 FLETCHER FOX: The times he hit

me was three

8 years
ago, and the other time was two years ago. He was

9 trying to
put manipulation on me back in April. There's a

10 time like in August he told me like you're not going

to

11 like he kept threatening to take me back from

Nantucket

12 Island back to the school because they're only two

hours

13 away from each other.

14 I told him once, like I told him he was

like

15 doing it just to put on a show to come out to Salt

Lake

16 City for New Year's last

year. It happened this time last

17 year because -- and then I was saying that he kept

18 threatening to take me back.

19 In April he kept like -- oh, like I told

him like

20 I wrote things to his

family. I brought it up to him. He

21 got really mad at me. We were

 2
having lunch and he

22 threatened to leave me at lunch

23 THE COURT: Okay.

24 FLETCHER FOX: by myself. And

I feel like
1 I've been isolated from the outside
world. I want to be in

2 a normal high school like a normal I think my dad

student.

3 kept me at Chamberlain way longer than I needed to be and

4 therape
utic boarding school way longer in general. And I

5 do not like the way I think he treats me like a dog and

6 chattel.

7 THE COURT: Anything else? I'm

going to go back

8 and probably cover some of these with you in more detail.

9 Anything else?

10 I don't usually do
this. I'll tell you right

11 now, I don't usually let a young man give all his

thoughts

12 at the outset, but I'm doing it with you because I

think

13 it's important for me to hear how you -- what's on

your

14 mind and how you phrase

things. So anything else you can

15 think of right at the

beginning? Then I'm going to go back

16 into some of the questions that I have.

17 FLETCHER FOX: There was one time

when I yelled

18 a
t the staff to let me have more phone calls and visits. I

19 had a a phone call with my mom, and he threatened

not to

20 like, do
you want to have the phone call or not? I mean, I

21 think
that is horrible what he said right there. His name

22 is Larry Mutty.

23 THE COURT: Okay.

24 FLETCHER FOX: And I feel like

they've been
 1 violating my rights.

2 THE COURT: I keep asking you but

they being?

3 FLETCHER FOX: Chamberlain. And my

dad has been

4 violating my rights especially.

5 THE COURT: Well, I may take these

questions in a

6 slight
ly different order than I originally thought. Let me

7 ask this one now.

8 What's your understanding, do you know why you

9 are presently a student at Chamberlain?

10 FLETCHER FOX: I think because my

dad wants to

11 keep me there. He keeps saying I need to be

in therapeutic

12 boarding school, but I don't need to be there

anymore.

13 THE COURT: Okay. How did you

reach the

14 conclusion that you don't need to be at Chamberlain

15 a
nymore?
FLETCHER FOX: Because I don't think anyone is
16

17 sayin
g I need to be there except for my dad and Jen. I

18 don't feel like I have more issues than most of the

kids,

19 other kids that go there.

20 THE COURT: I don't want you to feel I'm pressing

21 you at any time, and if you don't want to answer

something,
22 you don't have to answer it.

23 But when you say for me you don't think

you need

24 to be at Chamberlain anymore, do you think there was

a time
1 where you did need to be at a school like Chamberlain?

2 FLETCHER FOX: Probably not.

3 THE COURT: Was there any time

when you had a

4 better
opinion of Chamberlain School, do you think? How

5 about when you first started, which I understand it was

6 last February probably?

7 FLETCHER FOX: Correct.

8 THE COURT: I think you have been

there about 11

9 months?

10 FLETCHER FOX: Yeah.

11 THE COURT: Did you dislike

Chamberlain right

12 from the start?

13 FLETCHER FOX: No.

14 THE COURT: What was it that you

think -

15 FLETCHER FOX: When I realized

how wrong, that

16 they're only letting me have six phone calls with my

mom

17 have visits with my mom six times a year and one

phone call

18 with her a week.

19 THE COURT: What are you studying

at Chamberlain?

20 What are some of the classes that you're taking?

21 FLETCHER FOX: Geometry,

literature, composition,

22 biology and history. And I don't

think the education there
23 is that good. I think they are way too
easy compared to

24 what they should be.

 31

1 THE COURT: Do you have a favorite class among

-
2 FLETCHER FOX: Maybe history.

3 THE COURT: History.

4 Any particular time in history that you like to

5 study?

6 FLETCHER FOX: Writing down the definitions and

7 stuff.

8 THE COURT: Any particular time frame of history

9 that interests you more than others like the Civil War or

10 the --

11 FLETCHER FOX: We're learning about

World War I

12 recently.

13 THE COURT: Okay. I believe this

is the 100th

14 anniversary of the
start of World War I. I think it

15 started in August of 1914.

16 FLETCHER FOX: There is one thing I

forgot to

17 tell you. In August, for the entire trip with my

dad I had

18 a two week trip in August, they wouldn't let me call my

mom

19 for the entire trip. And I had to

wait until after I got

20 back from my visit until I was allowed to call my mom

21
again.
THE COURT: Okay. What's your least favorite
22

23 course that you're

taking presently? History is your
 31

24 favorite.
 1

1 FLETCHER FOX: Maybe Chinese.

It's all right. I

2 don't hate it.

3
THE COURT: You went to China this summer, didn't
4 you?

5
FLETCHER FOX: I did.
6
THE COURT: On a class trip. Tell me something

7 about that.

8 FLETCHER FOX: Well, I got to

explore.

9 THE COURT: Explore different

areas?

10 FLETCHER FOX: Yes. And I got to

explore the

11 culture. I had a good volunteer.

12 THE COURT: The volunteer was

somebody from

13
China?
FLETCHER FOX: Yeah. He was a high school
14

15 student. We all had volunteers.

16 THE COURT: Right. Anything else

with the China

17 trip that stands out in your mind?

18 I
know it was six months ago or thereabouts. Was

19 it time well spent?

20 FLETCHER FOX: Was it time well

spent?

21 THE COURT: Yeah. Did you enjoy

it?

22 FLETCHER FOX: Did I enjoy it?

 2

23 THE COURT: Yeah.

24 FLETCHER FOX: Yes.

 1 THE COURT: If you could tell
somebody in

2 Chamberlain to change some thing or some things about the

3 school, what would you tell them?

4 FLETCHER FOX: I would tell them

to let me -- to

5 let my
morn call me and visit me whenever she wants. Other

6 students, some of the other students they're allowed to

7 have those things. And I would -- I

think they should

8 listen to the problems that I'm having and they don't.

9 THE COURT: Tell me in different

words what you

10 mean when you say they should listen to your

problems but

11 they don't.

12 FLETCHER FOX: When I tell the

staff, any of the

13 staff there about my problems, like, they all don't

listen.

14 They tell me I
should tell my therapist. When I tell my

15 therapist, she doesn't listen or help me either.

16 THE COURT: So primarily you don't

like the fact

17 that Chamberlain is restricting your contact with

morn.

18 You'd have them change and expand that contact,

right?

19 FLETCHER FOX: Yes.

20 THE COURT: Somebody ought to

listen to you more

21 than they are and discuss problems, that whatever

problem

22 you have or problems you have you'd like for

somebody on

23 the Chamberlain staff to spend more time listening

to you?

24 FLETCHER FOX: Yes.

 34

1 THE COURT:
Discussing things with you. If

2 those -- I don't know that they will or that they can,

but

3 if those two concerns change, how would you feel about

4 Chamberlain?

5 FLETCHER FOX: I still wouldn't

like it because I

6 wouldn't
be allowed to be with my mom every day. I want

7 I want to tell you I want my mother to have full custody

of

8 me. I want her to regain full custody over me.

9 THE COURT: I believe you when you

say that.

10 So, again, I don't want to put words in

your

11 mouth at
all, but I'm trying to summarize it. There's not

12 much you think that Chamberlain could do to change

that

13 would make you feel any better about Chamberlain?

14 FLETCHER FOX: No.

15 THE COURT: What's your

mom like? What are her

16 personality traits?

17 FLETCHER FOX: Very sweet and

caring and she

18 tries to make my future good.

19 THE COURT: What's your dad like?

20 FLETCHER FOX: He's mean and

controlling and he

21 likes to just do whatever he wants to hurt other

people.
 34

22 THE COURT: Did you want to take

your dad to see

23 a hypnotist over this holiday vacation?

24 FLETCHER FOX: Yes.

 1

1 THE COURT: Why was that?

2 FLETCHER FOX: I thought maybe

they could try to

3 change his personality.

4 THE COURT: From what to what?

5 FLETCHER FOX: From being very

mean to being nice

6 and respectful of other people's rights.

7 THE COURT: Were there times when

-- I think you

8 mentioned, I want to follow-up a little bit, you do

believe

9 that there are times when your dad has been violent with

10 you?

11 FLETCHER FOX: Been what?

12 THE COURT: Violent.

13 FLETCHER FOX: Yes.

14 THE COURT: Did you ever say

anything to him

15 about that?

16 FLETCHER FOX: Every

time he denies it. He said

17 that I never hit you, even when he did.

18 THE COURT: How about your mother,

does she ever

19 have what I'll call temper tantrums?

20 FLETCHER FOX: No.

21 THE COURT: Or raise her voice at

you?

22 FLETCHER FOX: No.

23 THE COURT: Is she always nice?

24 FLETCHER FOX: Yes.

 1 THE COURT: Does your dad ever say
anything mean

2 about your mom?

3 FLETCHER FOX: Sometimes he sort

of does.

4 THE COURT: Well --

5 FLETCHER FOX: Sometimes he'll

say your mom

6 hasn't been very nice to me.

7 THE COURT: Meaning to him?

8 FLETCHER FOX: Yeah. To him.

9 THE COURT: Can you recall anything

else that

10 your dad may have said mean about your mother or

negative

11 about your mother?

12 FLETCHER FOX: He said she

treated me very

13 badly.

14 THE COURT: Again, meaning she

treated him very

15 badly?

16 FLETCHER FOX: Yes.

17 THE COURT: Does your mom ever say

anything bad

18 about your dad?

19 FLETCHER FOX: Yes.

20 THE COURT: What kind of things

does she say

21 about dad?

22 FLETCHER FOX: She said he was

very mean to her.

23 And yes.
24 THE COURT: Anything else you can
remember?
 1 FLETCHER FOX: She does a lot.

2 THE COURT: I know this is

tough. Mom and dad

3 are both sitting here

in my office. I want you to have the

4 assurance, as best I can give it, that no matter what you

5 say, and I believe that you've been telling me the truth

6 and that you've been a straight shooter with me, that

there

7 won't be any --
let me put it this way. If I ever hear of

8 any conduct that mom or dad has taken with regard to you

9 based upon what you're saying here in my office, I will

10 take very
appropriate remedy with that. So I can't make

11 them disappear from the room, and you're being very

12 forthright with
me and I appreciate that. But I want you

13 to know, I know it's not easy sitting there

answering some

14 of these questions with them being here.

15 Does your mother ever say anything mean

about

16 Jen, your dad's wife?

17 FLETCHER FOX: Yes.

18 THE COURT: What does she say about

Jen?

19 FLETCHER FOX: Because she says

she's mean, like,

20 she
says that she doesn't want to take care of me. And

21 sometimes I tell her some of the stories, some of

the
22 experiences I've had with Jen, so she kind of
repeats

23 them.

24 THE COURT: Let's get to

that. How would you
 1 describe your relationship with Jen?

2 FLETCHER FOX: I'm

disappointed. I think she

3 sent me to therapy boarding school because she doesn't

want

4 to raise me.

5 THE COURT: And when did you first

start to think

6 tha
t?
FLETCHER FOX: I guess since the beginning.
7
THE COURT: Tell me about your relationship with
8

9 your brother, Zack.

10 FLETCHER FOX: I love him.

He's very nice and

11 very helpful. And it was funny because I

ran -- I saw him

12 yesterday at the Mummer's Parade.

13 THE COURT: Did you exchange

conversation with

14 him?

15 FLETCHER FOX: Yeah.

16 THE COURT: What did you say to him

and what did

17 he say to you?

18 FLETCHER FOX: I told him -- we

talked about the

19 Mummer's Parade.

20 THE COURT: Okay. Did you --

well, let me try

21 this. Do you feel bad for your mom?

22 FLETCHER FOX: Yeah.

23 THE COURT: Why?

24 FLETCHER FOX: Because, you know,

she likes to
1 spend more time with me more than any other mother likes
to

2 spend time with their child.

She's one of the few mothers

3 that's not allowed to.

4 THE COURT: Do you feel bad at all

for your dad?

5 FLETCHER FOX: No.

6 THE COURT: Do you worry about

things generally?

7 FLETCHER FOX: Yes. I'm worried

that my dad is

8 trying to get extended custody over me or lock me up for

a

9 lot of years or for the rest of my life.

10 THE COURT: Lock you up in what

sense?

11 FLETCHER FOX: Programs or

12 THE COURT: All right. What do you

want to do

13when you get older?

14 Like when you've graduated from high

school?

15 FLETCHER FOX: When I graduate, I

want to be an

16 advocate, help other people that -- help other people

that

17 have lived through the same things as me.

18 THE COURT: Do you have any

thoughts about going

19 to college?

20 FLETCHER FOX: Yes. I'm scared

maybe my father

21 will lock me up, he'll keep trying to put me in

programs

22 then.

23 THE COURT: What types of things do

you think

24 you're good at?

 1 FLETCHER FOX: At being
articulate and being

2 helpful, I guess.

3 THE COURT: Okay. This is the

time of year when

4 some people make new year's

I don't. I've
resolutions.

5 given that up years ago.

6
FLETCHER FOX: I haven't really done that much
7 this year.

8 THE COURT: Well, you're like me in that

9 But if respect. it's the time of the new year, you
you
would make

10 a decision or have something that you would do to

improve

11 yourself or be better at during the upcoming year,

sort of

12 in the nature of a new year's resolution, I resolve

to do

13 this, I promise myself to do this, any thoughts on

what

14 you'd
do to change the way you're living or improve? Maybe

15 the answer is no. I don't know. I'm not

trying to say you

16 have to come up with an

answer. I'm getting to know you a

17 little bit.

18 FLETCHER FOX: My wish would be

for my mother to

19 get full custody over me.

20 THE COURT: Have you spoken to

anybody before
21 coming in to court today about what you might expect
when

22 you meet me and talk to me?

23 Let's narrow it down. Did

you talk to your dad

24 in advance about coming in here to speak to me

today?
 1 FLETCHER FOX: He told me about
it just while we

2 were having lunch.

3 THE COURT: Okay.

4 FLETCHER FOX: One of the

problems, I don't

5 think -- I haven't been allowed to be close enough to my

6 mother which I think is

absurd. I think there's a lot of

7 absurdity going on around me.

8 THE COURT: Did you talk to your

mom about the

9 possibility of coming in to court here today at any time,

10 maybe not over the last day or two but

11 FLETCHER FOX: Yeah.

12 THE COURT: any time in the past

that you can

13 re
member?
FLETCHER FOX: Yeah.
14
THE COURT: Do you remember what your mom said or
15

16 what you and your mom talked about?

17 FLETCHER FOX: She said I was

going to be

18 possibly going to court around this time.

19 THE COURT: Okay. Did you talk

about any of the

20 topics that you might be discussing?

21 FLETCHER FOX: Yeah. And I'm

like trying to

22 practice that because I'm just scared that I'm not

-- I'm
23 still worried maybe there is something I'm
forgetting.

24 THE COURT: Okay. Listen. I'm

with you.
 1 FLETCHER FOX: If I forget
anything, can I write

2 it to you in a letter?

3 THE COURT: Well, we probably have

to put some

4 sort of time frame on that, but I want to -- I'm not

saying

5 yes to that, but I want to see if we can spend as much

time

6 today as possible and to try to get it all wrapped up

today

7 as best we can.

8 Did your dad tell you to say something when you

9 came into court here?

10 FLETCHER FOX: He didn't tell

me. He didn't try

11 to manipulate me. He said I need -- I

wish you would say

12 you want
to spend time with both of your parents. Honestly

13 I would rather spend time with my mom than my dad.

14 THE COURT: Did your mom tell you

to say anything

15 or make sure you tell the judge this when you come
into

16 court?

17 FLETCHER FOX: Well, I mean,

like, one, I don't

18 think, if I said I want to live with my dad, she

would like

19 it, but you

might have to let me say that. But it's so

20 hard.

21 I just wish -- can I ask you this

question?
 22 THE COURT: You may ask it, yes.

23 FLETCHER FOX: A couple

questions. Let's say

24 before I went to therapeutic -- before I went to

Logan
1 River Academy, do you know that school?

2 THE COURT: I heard about Logan

River.

3 FLETCHER FOX: If I went there,

could I have just

4 stopped living with my dad if I wanted to before then?

5 THE COURT: Well, I said I'd give

you a chance to

6 ask a question. I probably should have

said before I gave

7 you that chance that I won't necessarily answer the

8 question for you.

9 FLETCHER FOX: Okay.

10 THE COURT: I don't think that's

something that's

11 proper for me to answer.

12 FLETCHER FOX: Okay.

13 THE COURT: I hope

you can respect that. I'm not

14 here to give anybody advice really, but I appreciate

the

15 reason why you asked that.

16 Have there been times where you've gone to

a

17 police department or a sheriff's department like

maybe in

18 Nantucket?

19 FLETCHER FOX: Yes.

20 THE COURT: This summer. Tell me

more about

21 that.

22 FLETCHER FOX: I was talking to

Jen about how I
23 was feeling and I felt bad afterward, so I decided
to go to

24 the police department and talk to them and see if I

could
1 like try to advocate about my feelings.

2 THE COURT: That was in -- you did

that in

3 Nantucket this past summer?

4 FLETCHER FOX: Yes.

5 THE COURT: Tell me what

you did. I mean, you

6 walked into the police department or the sheriff's

7 department and said what to somebody?

8 If you remember. Maybe you

don't.

9 FLETCHER FOX: I said about how I

wasn't allowed

10 to call my mom. I was just

shaking and crying. Or I don't

11 remember if I was totally crying or not, but I was

sad.

12 And I was complaining like there was one time I

punched the

13 billboard I was so angry I wasn't allowed to call my

mom.

14 I almost wanted to run away.

My dad still wouldn't let me,

15 and I'm tired of it. I've been

treated very badly.

16 THE COURT: All right. The types of

things that

17 you and I are talking about today, do you ever --

are you

18 able to discuss these things with any of your --

you've got

19 a couple of doctors. Is that

right?

20 FLETCHER FOX: In my school?

21 THE COURT: No. Back more in this

 area you've

22 got some.

23 FLETCHER FOX: They weren't

willing to help me.

24 THE COURT: But you've attempted to

talk to them
 45

1 about it and they told you they don't want to talk about

2 it?

3 FLETCHER FOX: They weren't

really -- they didn't

4 really do much
in order to try to help me. They kind of

5 ignored the problem.

6 THE COURT: Well, I'm going to ask

you a question

7 that your answer

may be you don't know. But what do you

8 think they should have been doing for you that they
didn't

9 do?

10 FLETCHER FOX: They should have

been reporting it

11 and trying to testify against my dad, and they

weren't

12 willing to do those things.

13 THE COURT:
Okay. Your mom has a boyfriend. Is

14 that right?

15 FLETCHER FOX: Yes.

16 THE COURT: What's his name?

17 FLETCHER FOX: Chris.

18 THE COURT: Tell me a little bit

about him.

19 FLETCHER FOX: He's very nice.

20 THE COURT: How often do you get to

see him?

21 FLETCHER FOX: I met him

on two trips. I've only

22 met him twice. Well, first time I got to

 45
see him for like

23 five days in a row, and the second time I got to see

him

24 for a couple of days was the entire visit that I

had.
 1

1 THE COURT: Have you done any

activities with

2 him, gone anyplace with him, made any trips or anything?

3 FLETCHER FOX: We've driven

around. In July, I

4 called the police because I was so upset and they

5 recommended for me to go to the Horsham Clinic, and my dad

6 and the school wouldn't let me.

7 THE did you call 911?

COURT: Was this

8 FLETC
HER FOX: Yes.

9 THE COURT: Why don't you tell me some more about

10
that.

11 FLETCHER FOX: I was crying

because I was so sad

12 I was only
allowed to call my mom once a week. I kept

13 crying and crying about it. I

decided to call the police.

14 I was holding a knife up to my hand.

15 THE COURT: What happened after you

placed this

16 911 call to the police?

17 FLETCHER FOX: They came over and

talked to me.

18 And they recommended for me to go to the Horsham

Clinic.

19 And then we tried, and my dad and the school wouldn't

allow

20 me to.

21 THE COURT: Okay. So you didn't

end up going
 2

22 there?

23 FLETCHER FOX: No.

24 Are we almost done?

 1 THE COURT: Is that a good thing
Pretty close.

2 if we're almost done?

3 (Fletcher Fox shrugged his shoulders at this

4 time.)

5 THE COURT: Anything else you would like to -

6 I've given you what I hope is a full opportunity to tell

me

7 what was on your mind. I've had some

questions that you've

8 answered, and I think you've been open with me and your

9 answer
s.
Is there anything else that you think I should
10

11 know or that we haven't discussed that you would like

to

12 bring up before we wrap this up?

13 FLETCHER FOX: So one of the

rules that he

14 wouldn't let me
sleep with my mom in bed. That's what the

15 school wouldn't do. And like I'd be

under a lot of very

16 mean rules.

17 THE COURT: Well, have there been

instances where

18 you've slept in bed with mom?

19 FLETCHER FOX: Yeah.

20 THE COURT: Tell me a little bit

more about that.

21 You don't have to go into great detail.

22 FLETCHER FOX: When I called 911

and they came to
23 the apartment that night, they recommended, they
suggested

24 that my mom should sleep in bed with me because I was

in a
 1 very bad mood.

2 And I would please want to live with my mom

3 full-time. I really want that. I

really want my mom to

4 have full legal custody over me.

5 THE COURT: I understand that.

6 FLETCHER FOX: And could you get

-- you said you

7 might be able to do that.

8 THE COURT: Well, there are a

number of options

9 that I have to consider. I'm

sorry I can't be any more

10 definite.

11 FLETCHER FOX: Is it possible

that that could

12 h
appen?
THE COURT: It's a legal possibility.
13

14 FLETCHER FOX: Legal?

15 THE COURT: It's a

possibility. It's one of the

16 choices that I have. It's also a

possibility one of the

17 choices that I have that things won't change very

much or

18 at all or I may make a decision that is somewhere in

the

19 middle there. I take my job very

seriously.

20 FLETCHER FOX: Could you give my

mom full

21 c
ustody? 22
 THE COURT: I take my job very seriously. And

23 one of the things I have to do is take into account

the

24 preference,
if any, that the child expresses. I have to
 1 weigh a lot of
other factors with that. So I will tell you

2 that I am required to consider full custody for your mom

as

3 one of the options before

me. I'd be not honest with you

4 if I told you I made up my mind what I'm going to do in

5 this case. But you ought to know on the

other side of it,

6 that that's the way you look at it, that one of my

options

7 is not
to change much from the way things are now. And I

8 know how your dad

feels about things. I know how your mom

9 feels about things. I

know how you feel about things. And

10 I've got to give my own consideration to a number of

11 factors and a number of

issues. I've got to put them all

12 together. I've got to weigh them on this side

and on that

13 side, and I've got to be the guy that comes up with

a

14 decision
that I think is in your best interests. That's

15 the best answer I can give you.

16 FLETCHER FOX: Okay.

17 THE COURT: Anything more you want

to talk about?

18 You may not have wanted to talk about most of this

stuff as

19 i
t was.
FLETCHER FOX: I think of everything in the
20
21 history, I'm scared of him. At
Logan River, my mom came

22 out to visit me last January, and the school

wouldn't let

23 her visit me.

24 THE COURT: Uh-huh.

 50

1 FLETCHER FOX: And they called

the police and

2 escorted my mother and grandmother off of the Logan River

3 campus. That's while I was still at Logan River.

4 THE COURT: I'm going to ask a

tough question.

5 The answer may be you

don't know. But do you have -

6 what's your belief or thought as to why Chamberlain has

7 placed restrictions on morn's contact with you?

8 FLETCHER FOX: I think it's

because that's what

9 my dad wants, and he's making those rules or the school

10 wants to do whatever he wants them to do so they can

get

11 his money.

12 THE COURT: All right. Okay.

Anything else you

13 can think of?

14 FLETCHER FOX: Let me think.

15 THE COURT: Here's what's I'm

going to do.

16 FLETCHER FOX: Do we have a lot

more to talk

17
about?
THE COURT: Not as far as I'm concerned, but I'm
18

19 trying to wrap it up giving you the opportunity, if

you've

20 got something else.

21 FLETCHER FOX: So do you know I

want my morn to

22 have full custody over me?

 50

23 THE COURT: I've been listening to

you over the

24 last -- is it that late -- probably 45 minutes.

 51

1
FLETCHER FOX: Okay.
2
THE COURT: So I've heard you say that a number
3 of times.

4
FLETCHER FOX: Okay.
5
THE COURT: All right? I'm going -- here's what

6 I'm going to do, I think. I'm

going to walk you out to my

7 secretary's area where you came I'm going to have you

in.
I'm going to have you
8 sit, she's got a chair by her
desk.

9 sit there for just a minute and then I'll come out and
meet

10 with you briefly again, so, but, again, I want you

to

11 understand I've got a lot to consider in this case.

12 FLETCHER FOX: I know you do.

13 THE COURT: And it's going to take

me a matter of

14 weeks, not a matter of hours and not a matter of

days.

15 It's going to take me several weeks to pull this all

16 together. Do you understand?

17 FLETCHER FOX: Yes.

18 THE COURT: You respect the

difficult role that I

19 have in this case?

20 FLETCHER FOX: Yes.

21 THE COURT: I appreciate

that. All righty. Let

22 me get you out. Nice to see you.

 51

23 (Fletcher Fox left the judge's chambers at

this

24 time.)