Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

BumRushDaShow

(164,134 posts)
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 02:20 PM 9 hrs ago

Hegseth cites 'fog of war' in defending follow-on strike in scrutinized attack on alleged drug boat

Source: AP

Updated 2:10 PM EST, December 2, 2025


WASHINGTON (AP) — Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth cited the “fog of war” in defending a follow-up strike on an alleged drug-carrying boat in the Caribbean Sea earlier this year.

During Tuesday’s cabinet meeting at the White House, Hegseth said that he did not see that there were survivors in the water when the second strike was ordered and launched in early September, saying that “the thing was on fire” and citing the “fog of war” in defending the strike.

Hegseth also said he “didn’t stick around” for the remainder of the mission following the first strike, and said that the admiral in charge had “made the right call” in ordering it, which he “had complete authority to do.”

The Washington Post first reported that Hegseth issued a verbal order for the second strike that killed survivors on the boat. On Monday, the White House said that Navy Vice Adm. Frank “Mitch” Bradley acted “within his authority and the law” when he ordered the second strike.

Read more: https://apnews.com/article/hegseth-trump-venezuela-540ae279827e02105e089f1bd5af37a6



“the thing was on fire”


What is a "thing"? It was a civilian boat with civilians on it. No one bothered to board it to determine what its intentions were.

citing the “fog of war”


When did the U.S. (CONGRESS) "declare war"?
43 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Hegseth cites 'fog of war' in defending follow-on strike in scrutinized attack on alleged drug boat (Original Post) BumRushDaShow 9 hrs ago OP
Circling back to kill civilians floating in the water is MURDER, not fog of war. Irish_Dem 8 hrs ago #1
There is no F...king War. Not even a Congressional Resolution, but less a Congressional Declaration of War. hlthe2b 8 hrs ago #2
Exactly. There is NO WAR. We are looking at MURDER. Irish_Dem 8 hrs ago #12
Right?! What war? yardwork 6 hrs ago #20
Killing men just fishing on their boat is called murder. Irish_Dem 6 hrs ago #21
Kelly was right. This is all a big game to them. ananda 8 hrs ago #3
I missed the part where we declared war on Venezuela. Ray Bruns 8 hrs ago #4
More like the fog of too much booze.nt moniss 8 hrs ago #5
Lol, beat me to it! Blumancru 3 hrs ago #29
Drunk on Power 2na fisherman 44 min ago #43
Gee. If Robert McNamara could go stock free by writing a book about "Fog of War" erronis 8 hrs ago #6
Not defending Robert McNamara, but this is no comparison ... FakeNoose 4 hrs ago #24
There was the Tonkin Gulf Resolution of August 1964 RazorbackExpat 2 hrs ago #35
Just heard a replay of Pete's "fog of war" blather. He doesn't even know what allegorical oracle 3 hrs ago #25
You are right. From Pete's perspective, the fog is after the 4th or 5th shot of whiskey. erronis 3 hrs ago #28
What a fucking joke. chowder66 8 hrs ago #7
Total fucking bullshit. He's a fucking liar and murderer. LymphocyteLover 8 hrs ago #8
Since when have we been at war? Did Congress declare war and I missed it?? Rhiannon12866 8 hrs ago #9
A leader in his position... Mike Nelson 8 hrs ago #10
You would need the other side returning fire for it to be a fog of war. Baitball Blogger 8 hrs ago #11
The "fog of war"? Inf**kingcredible! patphil 8 hrs ago #13
"fog of war" my old soldier ass AverageOldGuy 8 hrs ago #14
You need to change your moniker. COL Mustard 1 hr ago #41
"Fog of war" is how women describe the feeling after Hegseth has been near their drinks Prairie Gates 7 hrs ago #15
Kegsbreath lying again sakabatou 7 hrs ago #16
So Bradley will be giving a classified briefing on Thursday, Native 7 hrs ago #17
Is that what they're calling drunken stupor now? Buddyzbuddy 7 hrs ago #18
Just exactly how much chaos and uncertainty (fog) is there when no one is shooting back at you? LudwigPastorius 7 hrs ago #19
Fog of cosplaying. If he can't HANDLE a fisherman boat, what about a fleet of destroyers? WEAK!!! nt Exp 4 hrs ago #22
"Fog of War"? sheshe2 4 hrs ago #23
He's full of shit Warpy 3 hrs ago #26
Hegseth is trying to throw Admiral Bradley under the bus. TomSlick 3 hrs ago #27
Fog of murder. Harker 3 hrs ago #30
Us folks that aren't handsome lethal warriors, call it being shit faced. Swede 3 hrs ago #31
Speaking of that, I just spotted this story - BumRushDaShow 3 hrs ago #32
That raccoon was framed. He was just the wingman. nt eppur_se_muova 2 hrs ago #33
Oh my God, that's hilarious!!!! COL Mustard 1 hr ago #40
Does he mean 'the fog of BEER'? I think he means the fog of beer.. Jack Valentino 2 hrs ago #34
The murderous jerk has gone to "the fog of war" defense. Lame. This ain't Vietnam dude. BradBo 2 hrs ago #36
'Fog of War' Aussie105 1 hr ago #37
Paging Admiral Bradley...your bus is waiting.... COL Mustard 1 hr ago #38
More like enigmania 1 hr ago #39
Hegseth loves terms like "fog of war", it makes him feel manly BlueWaveNeverEnd 47 min ago #42

hlthe2b

(112,345 posts)
2. There is no F...king War. Not even a Congressional Resolution, but less a Congressional Declaration of War.
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 02:29 PM
8 hrs ago

Much less a metaphoric war. Mr. Macho-wannabe, whose insecurity literally SCREAMS from his words and "actions."

But, yes... MURDER!

yardwork

(68,699 posts)
20. Right?! What war?
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 04:35 PM
6 hrs ago

The U.S. aimed a missile at an unarmed fishing boat off the coast of Venezuela and when a couple people survived, we hit them again.

Not a war. We call this terrorism when other people do it.

Irish_Dem

(78,490 posts)
21. Killing men just fishing on their boat is called murder.
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 04:37 PM
6 hrs ago

And yes they are using murder to terrorize everyone.

ananda

(34,147 posts)
3. Kelly was right. This is all a big game to them.
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 02:30 PM
8 hrs ago

They're like spoiled psychopathic children
who think they can get away with anything.

erronis

(22,195 posts)
6. Gee. If Robert McNamara could go stock free by writing a book about "Fog of War"
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 02:38 PM
8 hrs ago

why wouldn't little drunkard pete try that exit door?

For those that are too old or too young: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fog_of_War

FakeNoose

(39,737 posts)
24. Not defending Robert McNamara, but this is no comparison ...
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 07:16 PM
4 hrs ago

Vietnam really was a serious war, even though Congress never got around to declaring "war" on Vietnam.

Hogsbreath has a lot of nerve comparing himself to McNamara, and comparing the US bombing a few fishing (or whatever) boats to the Vietnam War.

RazorbackExpat

(810 posts)
35. There was the Tonkin Gulf Resolution of August 1964
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 09:04 PM
2 hrs ago

in which Congress essentially left it up to the President to determine how far American involvement in the conflict would go. And remember, there were two Viet Nams at the time. The Tonkin Gulf Resolution was directed at North Viet Nam.

allegorical oracle

(6,074 posts)
25. Just heard a replay of Pete's "fog of war" blather. He doesn't even know what
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 07:24 PM
3 hrs ago

that phrase means. He stated that there was a lot of fire and smoke after one of the boat strikes -- it was hard to see anything. "And that's why they call it the fog of war," he said. He appears to be taking "fog" literally. My understanding is that it's a state of situational unawareness that occurs during the chaos of battle.

erronis

(22,195 posts)
28. You are right. From Pete's perspective, the fog is after the 4th or 5th shot of whiskey.
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 07:33 PM
3 hrs ago

Surprised the supposed teetotaler (but apparently drug addicted) CINC would want someone like that under his 'command'.

Baitball Blogger

(51,555 posts)
11. You would need the other side returning fire for it to be a fog of war.
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 02:55 PM
8 hrs ago

In Hegseth's place, it was more bloodlust than fog of war.

patphil

(8,565 posts)
13. The "fog of war"? Inf**kingcredible!
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 03:11 PM
8 hrs ago

Blowing up some small boats in international waters just because they can doesn't qualify for a "fog of war" condition.
This asshole's drunk on power.

AverageOldGuy

(3,215 posts)
14. "fog of war" my old soldier ass
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 03:15 PM
8 hrs ago

His goddam brain was fogged up on booze.

Hogsbreath is a former National Guard infantry officer. However, he NEVER EVEN ENROLLED IN OR REQUESTED TO BE ENROLLED IN SOME COURSES THAT ALL/MOST INFANTRY OFFICERS AND SOLDIERS COMPLETE.
-- Ranger -- some of the toughest and best small infantry unit training in the world
-- Airborne -- learn how to jump out of airplanes. And land safely.
-- Air Assault -- helicopter operations in combat
-- Pathfinder -- small unit goes in first, clears the way for follow-on small units



I completed all but Pathfinder, never figured I needed it. Active duty 1967-1995, Vietnam 1969-70.

COL Mustard

(7,878 posts)
41. You need to change your moniker.
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 10:09 PM
1 hr ago

Average guys don't complete Ranger, Airborne and Air Assault.

I did Air Assault back when there was only one, but I work now with guys who have done all four, and a few who've done some others as well (SF, diver, etc.). And one guy who was a Tomb guard in the 3rd Infantry.

Native

(7,282 posts)
17. So Bradley will be giving a classified briefing on Thursday,
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 03:43 PM
7 hrs ago

this should be very interesting.

LudwigPastorius

(13,924 posts)
19. Just exactly how much chaos and uncertainty (fog) is there when no one is shooting back at you?
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 04:13 PM
7 hrs ago

Criminals!

Exp

(719 posts)
22. Fog of cosplaying. If he can't HANDLE a fisherman boat, what about a fleet of destroyers? WEAK!!! nt
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 07:06 PM
4 hrs ago

Warpy

(114,298 posts)
26. He's full of shit
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 07:32 PM
3 hrs ago

He knew there were survivors clinging to wreckage. My guess is that Demented Donny said to kill them all and Hedseth said yes sir and told the loyal admiral to give the order to shoot.

TomSlick

(12,831 posts)
27. Hegseth is trying to throw Admiral Bradley under the bus.
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 07:32 PM
3 hrs ago

Of course, he is lying.

Commanders up and down the chain need to take note that Hegseth will turn on them if they obey his illegal orders.

COL Mustard

(7,878 posts)
40. Oh my God, that's hilarious!!!!
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 10:06 PM
1 hr ago

I hope the crew put the little guy outside after he slept it off.

On further consideration, I hope they put him outside before he woke up. Raccoons can be mean-tempered when they're sober. I don't want to encounter a drunk one, or one with a hangover!

Aussie105

(7,480 posts)
37. 'Fog of War'
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 09:50 PM
1 hr ago

Describes what some soldiers experience and do in the heat of battle.
An ill considered, impulsive move.
They make decisions the rest of us can't comprehend.

This wasn't it.

This was orders from above . . . No Witnesses!

COL Mustard

(7,878 posts)
38. Paging Admiral Bradley...your bus is waiting....
Tue Dec 2, 2025, 10:04 PM
1 hr ago

You may get under it at Gate 6.

You used to have a distinguished career. Now it looks like you should have been on that boat, or at least been boat-adjacent.

Remember, Everything Trump Touches, Dies.

Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Hegseth cites 'fog of war...