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DYK queue status

There are currently 2 filled queues. Admin assistance in moving preps is requested.

To discuss the content or layout of the Template:Did you know page itself, go to Wikipedia talk:Did you know.
Did you know?
Introduction and rules
IntroductionWP:DYK
General discussionWT:DYK
GuidelinesWP:DYKCRIT
Reviewer instructionsWP:DYKRI
Nominations
Nominate an articleWP:DYKCNN
Awaiting approvalWP:DYKN
ApprovedWP:DYKNA
April 1 hooksWP:DYKAPRIL
Holding areaWP:SOHA
Preparation
Preps and queuesT:DYK/Q
Prepper instructionsWP:DYKPBI
Admin instructionsWP:DYKAI
Main Page errorsWP:ERRORS
History
StatisticsWP:DYKSTATS
Archived setsWP:DYKA
Just for fun
Monthly wrapsWP:DYKW
AwardsWP:DYKAWARDS
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Hall of FameWP:DYK/HoF
List of users ...
... by nominationsWP:DYKNC
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Administrative
Scripts and botsWP:DYKSB
On the Main Page
Main Page errorsWP:ERRORS
To ping the DYK admins{{DYK admins}}
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For instructions on how to nominate an article, see Template:DYK nomination header § Instructions for nominators.
"Template:Did you know nominations" redirects here. For the list of approved nominations, see Template talk:Did you know/Approved.

This page is to nominate fresh articles to appear in the "Did you know" section on the Main Page with a "hook" (an interesting note). Nominations that have been approved are moved to a staging area and then promoted into the Queue. To update this page, purge it.

Count of DYK Hooks
Section # of Hooks # Verified
August 20 1
September 27 1
October 8 1
October 9 1
October 13 1 1
October 15 2
October 18 3 1
October 19 2 2
October 20 2 1
October 22 2
October 24 2 1
October 25 2 1
October 28 4 1
October 30 1
October 31 4 2
November 1 3 1
November 2 4 2
November 3 4 4
November 4 6 3
November 5 3 1
November 7 6 4
November 8 3
November 9 3 2
November 10 5 1
November 11 4 4
November 12 1
November 13 4 3
November 14 4 4
November 15 7 4
November 16 5 3
November 17 4 2
November 18 13 13
November 19 9 5
November 20 8 8
November 21 12 9
November 22 10 7
November 23 2 2
November 24 5 3
November 25 6 5
November 26 6 3
November 27 10 9
November 28 4 3
November 29 10 6
November 30 6 6
December 1 7 6
December 2 2
December 3 2
December 4 2
December 5 4
December 6 3
December 7 1
December 8 1
December 9 2
December 10 2
December 11 3
December 12 2
December 13 2
Total 229 133
Last updated 07:44, 13 December 2024 UTC
Current time is 12:20, 13 December 2024 UTC [refresh]

Instructions for nominators

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Shortcut

If this is your first nomination, please read the DYK rules before continuing. Further information can be found at the DYK guidelines.

Nominate an article

Frequently asked questions

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How do I write an interesting hook?

Successful hooks tend to have several traits. Most importantly, they share a surprising or intriguing fact. They give readers enough context to understand the hook, but leave enough out to make them want to learn more. They are written for a general audience who has no prior knowledge of or interest in the topic area. Lastly, they are concise, and do not attempt to cover multiple facts or present information about the subject beyond what's needed to understand the hook.

When will my nomination be reviewed?

This page is often backlogged. As long as your submission is still on the page, it will stay there until an editor reviews it. Since editors are encouraged to review the oldest submissions first, it may take several weeks until your submission is reviewed. In the meantime, please consider reviewing another submission (not your own) to help reduce the backlog (see instructions below). Because of WP:DYKTIMEOUT, a nomination should be reviewed within two months since the reviewer/promoter may agree to reject and close an unpromoted hook after that time has passed.

Where is my hook?

If you can't find the nomination you submitted to this nominations page, it may have been approved and is on the approved nominations page waiting to be promoted. It could also have been added to one of the prep areas, promoted from prep to a queue, or is on the main page.

If the nominated hook is in none of those places, then the nomination has probably been rejected. Such a rejection usually only occurs if it was at least a couple of weeks old and had unresolved issues for which any discussion had gone stale. If you think your nomination was unfairly rejected, you can query this on the DYK discussion page, but as a general rule such nominations will only be restored in exceptional circumstances.


Instructions for reviewers

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Main page: Wikipedia:Did you know/Reviewing guide

Any editor who was not involved in writing/expanding or nominating an article may review it by checking to see that the article meets all the DYK criteria (long enough, new enough, no serious editorial or content issues) and the hook is cited. Editors may also alter the suggested hook to improve it, suggest new hooks, or even lend a hand and make edits to the article to which the hook applies so that the hook is supported and accurate. For a more detailed discussion of the DYK rules and review process see the supplementary guidelines and the WP:Did you know/Reviewing guide.

To post a comment or review on a DYK nomination, follow the steps outlined below:

  • Look through this page, Template talk:Did you know, to find a nomination you would like to comment on.
  • Click the "Review or comment" link at the top of the nomination. You will be taken to the nomination subpage.
  • The top of the page includes a list of the DYK criteria. Check the article to ensure it meets all the relevant criteria.
  • To indicate the result of the review (i.e., whether the nomination passes, fails, or needs some minor changes), leave a signed comment on the page. Please begin with one of the 5 review symbols that appear at the top of the edit screen, and then indicate all aspects of the article that you have reviewed; your comment should look something like the following:

    Article length and age are fine, no copyvio or plagiarism concerns, reliable sources are used. But the hook needs to be shortened.

    If you are the first person to comment on the nomination, there will be a line :* <!-- REPLACE THIS LINE TO WRITE FIRST COMMENT, KEEPING  :* --> showing you where you should put the comment.
  • Save the page.
  • After the nomination is approved, a bot will automatically list the nomination page on Template talk:Did you know/Approved.

If there is any problem or concern about a nomination, please consider notifying the nominator by placing {{subst:DYKproblem|Article|header=yes|sig=yes}} on the nominator's talk page.

Advanced procedures

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How to promote an accepted hook

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At-a-glance instructions on how to promote an approved hook to a prep area
Check list for nomination review completeness
  1. Select a hook from the approved nominations page that has one of these ticks at the bottom post: .
  2. Check to make sure basic review requirements were completed.
    • Any outstanding issue following needs to be addressed before promoting.
  3. Check the article history for any substantive changes since it was nominated or reviewed.
  4. Images for the lead slot must be freely licensed. Fair-use images are not permitted. Images loaded on Commons that appear on the Main Page are automatically protected by KrinkleBot.
  5. Hook must be stated in both the article and source (which must be cited at the end of the article sentence where stated).
  6. Hook should make sense grammatically.
  7. Try to vary subject matters within each prep area.
  8. Try to select a funny, quirky or otherwise upbeat hook for the last or bottom hook in the set.
Steps to add a hook to prep
  • In one tab, open the nomination page of the hook you want to promote.
  • In a second tab, open the prep set you intend to add the hook to.

Wanna skip all this fuss? Install WP:PSHAW instead! Does most of the heavy lifting for ya :)

  1. For hooks held for specific dates, refer to "Local update times" section on DYK Queue.
    • Completed Prep area number sets will be promoted by an administrator to corresponding Queue number.
  2. Copy and paste the hook into a chosen slot.
    • Make sure there's a space between ... and that, and a ? at the end.
    • Check that there's a bold link to the article.
  3. If it's the lead (first) hook, paste the image where indicated at the top of the template.
  4. Copy and paste ALL the credit information (the {{DYKmake}} and {{DYKnom}} templates) at the bottom
  5. Check your work in the prep's Preview mode.
    • At the bottom under "Credits", to the right of each article should have the link "View nom subpage" ; if not, a subpage parameter will need to be added to the DYKmake.
  6. Save the Prep page.
Closing the DYK nomination page
  1. At the upper left
    • Change {{DYKsubpage to {{subst:DYKsubpage
    • Change |passed= to |passed=yes
  2. At the bottom
    • Just above the line containing

      }}<!--Please do not write below this line or remove this line. Place comments above this line.-->

      insert a new, separate line containing one of the following:
      To [[T:DYK/P1|Prep 1]]
      To [[T:DYK/P2|Prep 2]]
      To [[T:DYK/P3|Prep 3]]
      To [[T:DYK/P4|Prep 4]]
      To [[T:DYK/P5|Prep 5]]
      To [[T:DYK/P6|Prep 6]]
      To [[T:DYK/P7|Prep 7]]
    • Also paste the same thing into the edit summary.
  3. Check in Preview mode. Make sure everything is against a pale blue background (nothing outside) and there are no stray characters, like }}, at the top or bottom.
  4. Save.

For more information, please see T:TDYK#How to promote an accepted hook.

Handy copy sources:

  • To [[T:DYK/P1|Prep 1]]
  • To [[T:DYK/P2|Prep 2]]
  • To [[T:DYK/P3|Prep 3]]
  • To [[T:DYK/P4|Prep 4]]
  • To [[T:DYK/P5|Prep 5]]
  • To [[T:DYK/P6|Prep 6]]
  • To [[T:DYK/P7|Prep 7]]

How to remove a rejected hook

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  • Open the DYK nomination subpage of the hook you would like to remove. (It's best to wait several days after a reviewer has rejected the hook, just in case someone contests or the article undergoes a large change.)
  • In the window where the DYK nomination subpage is open, replace the line {{DYKsubpage with {{subst:DYKsubpage, and replace |passed= with |passed=no. Then save the page. This has the effect of wrapping up the discussion on the DYK nomination subpage in a blue archive box and stating that the nomination was unsuccessful, as well as adding the nomination to a category for archival purposes.

How to remove a hook from the prep areas or queue

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  • Edit the prep area or queue where the hook is and remove the hook and the credits associated with it.
  • Go to the hook's nomination subpage (there should have been a link to it in the credits section).
    • View the edit history for that page
    • Go back to the last version before the edit where the hook was promoted, and revert to that version to make the nomination active again.
    • Add a new icon on the nomination subpage to cancel the previous tick and leave a comment after it explaining that the hook was removed from the prep area or queue, and why, so that later reviewers are aware of this issue.
  • Add a transclusion of the template back to this page so that reviewers can see it. It goes under the date that it was first created/expanded/listed as a GA. You may need to add back the day header for that date if it had been removed from this page.
  • If you removed the hook from a queue, it is best to either replace it with another hook from one of the prep areas, or to leave a message at WT:DYK asking someone else to do so.

How to move a nomination subpage to a new name

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  • Don't; it should not ever be necessary, and will break some links which will later need to be repaired. Even if you change the title of the article, you don't need to move the nomination page.

Nominations

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Older nominations

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Articles created/expanded on August 20

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IMAX Melbourne

(
)
Created by Mjks28 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.

Mjks28 (talk) 01:03, 29 August 2024 (UTC).[reply]

  • General eligibility:
  • New enough: Yes
  • Long enough: Yes
  • Other problems: No - Article was nominated 9 days after being moved to mainspace. The limit is 7 days.
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: None required.

Overall: Cambalachero (talk) 18:39, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Cambalachero: Per WP:DYKNEW, "The seven-day limit can be extended for a day or two upon request." For a relatively new nominator, I'd take this.--Launchballer 00:04, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK Cambalachero (talk) 14:53, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pulled from Prep 3. The hook fact is cited to promotional material from the theatre, which is insufficient for such an exceptional claim.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 21:11, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mjks28 and Cambalachero: Please address the above.--Launchballer 23:59, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Two new sources ([1] and [2]) have been added to the article to back up the hook. I hope this suffices. Please let me know if there is anything else that needs to be done.—Mjks28 (talk) 02:49, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Articles created/expanded on September 27

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Phoebe Plummer

( Comment or view )
Created by Launchballer (talk) and Folkezoft (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 253 past nominations.

Launchballer 03:13, 2 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: Done.

Overall: Ooh, a quadruple hook. All of the articles are new enough, long enough, and well cited. There are a few places where phrasing could be a bit more neutral (I feel like inspired would be better than empowered, for example), but those may also be stylstic considerations. Earwig isn't happy, but it's the large block quote that speaks to Plummer's inspiration in that instance. Ideally Hehir's article would have a bit more on his early life, but if the sources aren't talking about it, rather difficult. (Minor quibble: the source says "unfortunately" rather than "unfortunate", but I think it works here).  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 19:27, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This has been sitting near the top of Approved for over a week. What else do I have to do to get this promoted? (For the record, I believe "unfortunately" --> "unfortunate" is covered by MOS:SIC.)--Launchballer 02:04, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not entirely sure that Holland in particular meets the independent notability standards of WP:CRIMINAL. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:03, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
She's a lot more borderline than Plummer, I'll admit that. From memory, there's significant coverage of her role in Politico at least and this Prospect piece was what clinched it for me, but I will of course take another look later.--Launchballer 16:30, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Since we are dealing with a BLP, I think we should veer on the side of safety as described in WP:CRIMINAL. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've had another look and I believe Holland meets WP:CRIMINAL#unusual crime.--Launchballer 00:16, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll wait for another promoter's opinion. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@AirshipJungleman29: This nomination is over two months old. I still believe Holland meets WP:CRIMINAL, but is it worth posting at WT:DYK (though arguably this'll get another review when it's queued anyway)?--Launchballer 14:30, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, why not? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 20:12, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Posted there.--Launchballer 03:00, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have started an AfD. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:29, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Articles created/expanded on October 8

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Diane Leather

(
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  • ... that Diane Leather was the first woman to run a mile in under five minutes?
5x expanded by Oldelpaso (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Oldelpaso (talk) 22:24, 14 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

  • Can we do better than this? If any woman has run the mile in under 5 minutes, someone had to be the first, and the hook doesn't provide any more information. (t · c) buidhe 23:51, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Are you saying a world record isn't notable and/or hook worthy? Or are you asking for more context such as a link to Mile run world record progression? I was trying to keep the hook as succinct as possible. Oldelpaso (talk) 02:01, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Another issue is that the hook proposed is a "first" hook, which per WP:DYKHOOK usually needs exceptionally strong sourcing given the exceptional claim involved (how are we sure that no other woman before Leather ran a mile in under five minutes?) Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:21, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article includes cites describing her in those terms from the World Athletics website (the organisation that ratifies world records in the discipline, formerly known as the IAAF)[3], the BBC [4], Guardian [5], NYT [6], Washington Post [7] and others. Oldelpaso (talk) 21:37, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I could work in some reference to Roger Bannister in the hook, as his far more well-known first sub-four minute mile occurred the same month and thus they are frequently compared, but I'd rather not. It was how overlooked Leather's achievement was compared to the male equivalent that prompted me to expand the article in the first place! Oldelpaso (talk) 21:55, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A bit of a late comment, but ALT1 is probably a lot better because it's not a "first" hook and is thus more likely to be accurate. Plus it's also arguably more intriguing than a simple "first" hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:16, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Oldelpaso: Please address the above. For the record, I'd truncate ALT1 at "world record".--Launchballer 00:58, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are multiple sentences or paragraphs where the sourcing is unclear. Please see the {{citation needed}} tags added. Also, it appears that this article has not yet had a full review. Does any other user commenting here intend to? Flibirigit (talk) 22:36, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I notice that the nominator has not edited since October 22. This nomination might need adoption if it will succeed. Flibirigit (talk) 12:34, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, with six days elapsed since my "Please address the above" comment, I would have threatened to say "I will close this in 24 hours if there is no progress on this".--Launchballer 12:42, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I posted a message at WT:DYK. Let's see if anyone adopts this. I don't have the time to commit to it myself. Flibirigit (talk) 01:38, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I found one missing reference, but having trouble with the others. But lets please put to bed this silly idea that we need better sourcing for being the first woman to run a 5 minute mile. It only took a few minutes of searching to find dozens of high quality sources for this fact. There is no reasonable doubt that it's true. And that's from somebody who complains about "first" hooks more than almost anybody. RoySmith (talk) 14:36, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fine by me, however I'm slightly uneasy about ALT0 per WP:FIRSTWOMAN and I'd truncate ALT1 at "world record".--Launchballer 15:11, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(ec) Just to make this more official, here's a formal review:

  • Article is long enough.
  • Article was 5x expanded between 2024-10-08 (3066 prose) and 2024-10-15 (15411 prose)
  • This has appeared on OTD twice, most recently on May 29, 2023. I'n not a fan of rerunning material, but this does technically meet the requirement of WP:DYKNEW.
  • Earwig reports no copyright or close paraphrasing issues.
  • There are 5 "citation needed" tags which need to be resolved before this can be promoted.
  • ALT0 is verified and interesting and thus approved, pending the resolution of the missing citations.
  • I reject the WP:FIRSTWOMAN argument. That's valid for many things, but athletic records are always kept separately for men and women.
  • Oh yeah, QPQ exempt
  • RoySmith (talk) 15:37, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In addition to the message I left on Oldelpaso's talk page, I sent them an email. Between that and the wikiproject request, I think we've done our due dilgence. So as not to be a total roadblock, how about we give it a week to see if any of those bear fruit, and if nothing happens by then, we can call it a day? RoySmith (talk) 22:03, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds fair, but just to make things clear, the nomination will time out anyway on the 14th, which is a day after one week from December 6. Regardless of what happens, marking the nom for closure on the 13th or 14th if issues remain unaddressed and no one adopts this/the nominator doesn't return seems fair. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:23, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the email. I'm only an occasional visitor, and had assumed this had been and gone. I'll look for cites. All things I remember reading, I just have to figure out where. The London Olympiades one in particular is one that can be found easily in less robust sources, but is implied without the neat explicit phrasing in the better ones I've tried so far. Is it me or has Google gone way downhill in the decade since I was a regular editor? Oldelpaso (talk) 16:25, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for coming back to work on this. I'm not usually a sports fan, but this one caught my eye as something interesting/significant that we should put some extra effort into promoting. RoySmith (talk) 16:39, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The nomination will time out on the 14th, so it seems reasonable that any remaining issues need to be addressed before this. @RoySmith: If Oldelpaso cannot address the concerns on time, will you be willing to address the concerns yourself and adopt the nomination? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:39, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oldelpaso has already fixed some of them. There's two left. Let's just let him do his thing. RoySmith (talk) 14:28, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean "the nomination will time out on the 14th" Narutolovehinata5? WP:DYKTIMEOUT clearly says "at the discretion of reviewers and promoters". Why would you time out a nomination which does not require much improvement and which the nominator has committed to work on. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:29, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was simply saying that the nom would be two months old on the 14th, I wasn't planning on marking it for closure especially now that it's being worked on. It was more of a reminder than a warning. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:54, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Articles created/expanded on October 9

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Musa al-Gharbi

(
)
  • ... that Musa al-Gharbi has argued since the 2016 election of Donald Trump that media outlets including The New York Times opinion page and MSNBC have failed to understand his supporters?
  • Source: "For the past four years, Al-Gharbi tried to tell anyone who would listen that Trump supporters did not in fact fit the sociological profile offered on The New York Times opinion page or on MSNBC’s nightly pearl-clutching roundtables." Tablet
Created by Thriley (talk) and Oganguly (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 148 past nominations.

Thriley (talk) 07:16, 18 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems

Hook eligibility:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Regards, Aafi (talk) 15:57, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Although all checks are okay, I am not happy with how the proposed hook is worded? 183 characters is quite close to 200. Could you please suggest a few more hooks? Regards, Aafi (talk) 15:57, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Thriley: Please address the above.--Launchballer 12:20, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Aafi: is there something wrong with the hook aside from its length? Thriley (talk) 17:01, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

At a glance, I'd lose "including The New York Times opinion page and MSNBC" and "since the 2016 election of Donald Trump" for concision, obviously replacing "his" with "Donald Trump's". (I wouldn't wikilink "his supporters" per MOS:EGG.)--Launchballer 21:26, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:DYKTRIM, I was thinking along the lines of ALT1a: ... that Musa al-Gharbi has argued that media outlets have failed to understand supporters of Donald Trump?.--Launchballer 22:26, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am good with Launchballer proposed Alt1a, if Thriley doesn't have any objections to this, I would be glad to pass this one. Regards, Aafi (talk) 07:28, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Alt1a is not accurate. He is calling out specific media outlets. Thriley (talk) 12:41, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What if we tweak it to something like, "several media outlets", which could make the case easily? Regards, Aafi (talk) 12:54, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ALT1b: ... that Musa al-Gharbi has argued that several media outlets have failed to understand supporters of Donald Trump?--Launchballer 12:57, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This hook is too broad. He is specifically calling out liberal media outlets. Thriley (talk) 13:04, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The source doesn't mention that either The New York Times or MSNBC are liberal and I think their leanings are extraneous and would qualify for trimming.--Launchballer 03:08, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Right. I would also suggest removing the image until we have permissions. Regards, Aafi (talk) 12:31, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Both of the outlets are part of the class of "symbolic capitalists" al-Gharbi describes in his book. To specify the outlets is essential. There's probably a better hook I can come up with. Will add it in the next 12 hours. Thriley (talk) 16:30, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thriley Its been 3 days since your comment, "Will add it in the next 12 hours". Regards, Aafi (talk) 08:43, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ALT2 ... that Musa al-Gharbi argues that the U.S. is dominated by "symbolic capitalists"?
ALT3 ... that Musa al-Gharbi argues that "symbolic capitalists" support social justice movements to amass social currency?
ALT4 ... that one-time aspiring Catholic priest Musa al-Gharbi later converted to Islam?
ALT5 ... that Musa al-Gharbi once wrote that U.S. presence was worse for the Middle East than ISIS?
ALT6 ... that Musa al-Gharbi was too qualified to manage a store's shoe department? Bremps... 16:50, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And use as the image hook; it is indisputably free. Bremps... 16:36, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Bremps: Thank you for the alt hooks. They are all ok, but I want to run something that details his work a bit more and draws readers. Thriley (talk) 22:31, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
User:Thriley, the hook must comply with WP:DYKBLP (no hooks dedicated solely to unduly negative aspects of a person's character) and WP:DYKHOOKCITE, as there's nothing on K. Harris in the article. This hook won't fly. Also, I'd caution against your first proposed hooks, as they're pretty common political sentiments. Bremps... 01:15, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Articles created/expanded on October 15

[edit]

Common fixed point problem

(
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  • Source: "The purpose of this paper is to answer Dyer's question in the negative by the construction of a pair of commuting functions which have no fixed point in common. [...] This paper is a condensation of the author's 1967 doctoral dissertation", from a paper by Boyce . "It has been conjectured that any two continuous functions f, g mapping the closed unit interval into itself which commute under composition [...] must have a common fixed point [...] Chapter 2 defines a pair of functions which show that the conjecture is false", from Huneke's 1967 PhD dissertation.
  • Reviewed:
  • Comment: If the reviewer doesn't have ProQuest access, I can provide a copy of Huneke's dissertation over email.
Created by WillisBlackburn (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

jlwoodwa (talk) 19:15, 16 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

  • Starting review...
  • Article is new enough and long enough
  • Sources all appear to be WP:RS and for the most part, adequately cited with in-line citations. There are however two {{citation needed}} tags which need to be addressed.
  • Earwig calls out a few phrases here and there but they all look like technical terms which can't be rephrased, so no problems there.
  • Extra brownie points for taking an exceptionally technical article and writing a hook which will appeal to most readers. RoySmith (talk) 22:16, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jlwoodwa: just want to make sure you saw this. RoySmith (talk) 01:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@RoySmith: Thanks for the ping. I've removed the first statement tagged with {{citation needed}} (since WillisBlackburn said on the talk page that it turned out to be false), and added a citation for the other statement. jlwoodwa (talk) 01:58, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looking at this closer, I see that there's still some statements that need citations. I've added some more {{citation needed}} tags. My apologies for not picking up on this the first time. RoySmith (talk) 02:06, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Jlwoodwa: please see the above. RoySmith (talk) 14:21, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like the claim in the hook is sourced to the dissertations themselves, so there's no source actually saying they were independent, which sounds like a WP:SYNTH problem to me. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 11:16, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Secondary sources agree that Boyce and Huneke came up with their solutions independently. For example, from the Brown article: "It seems appropriate that a question that independently occurred to more than one person should have been answered independently by two people." The McDowell article: "The Dyer/Shields/Dubins/Isbell conjecture (hereafter referred to as the common fixed-point conjecture) was independently settled in the negative by William M. Boyce [7] and Huneke [22] in 1967." The McCrosky dissertation: "Finally, in 1967, the unit interval was shown to not have the common fixed point property by two men working independently on their dissertations." And of course Huneke's published paper (separate from his disseration) says "Simultaneous to and independent of the author's preceding work, W. M. Boyce [1], [2] constructed essentially the same solution." WillisBlackburn (talk) 22:33, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@WillisBlackburn, Jlwoodwa, RoySmith, and Theleekycauldron: What is the status of this nomination?--Launchballer 02:45, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ratnākara

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  • ... that Ratnākara may have invented the poetic device of vakrokti ("verbal distortion")?
  • ALT1: ... that Ratnākara's Vakroktipañcāśikā contains fifty verses of dialogue between Śiva and Pārvatī, employing the poetic device of vakrokti ("verbal distortion")?
  • ALT2: ... that a now-lost chronicle of the kings of Kashmir, covering two "gaps" in Kalhaṇa's Rājataraṅginī, is attributed to Ratnākara?
  • Reviewed:
Created by TryKid (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

TryKid [dubious – discuss] 07:48, 15 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

It might be better to just focus on ALT2 as ALT1 still seems to rely on specialist knowledge and not something that's self-evident from a reading. ALT2 is still slightly specialist but it's at least more understandable. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:02, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The nominator has been given well over a month to propose a usable hook. The current hooks require specialized knowledge and fail the WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE guideline. Given how much time has passed since this issue was pointed out by Narutolovehinata5 to TryKid, it is time to pass on this nomination.4meter4 (talk) 18:01, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

4meter4, my understanding was that Narutolovehinata5 had passed on the review for someone else to do it, not that I was being asked to make a new hook! That's not what I expected "Symbol redirect vote 4" to mean. It's fine if it's too late to salvage this, but Narutolovehinata5 and other reviewers, please be clearer about this stuff, and clearly state what is expected from the nominators. TryKid [dubious – discuss] 18:44, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@TryKid I'm happy to hold off on a rejection if you still wish to try and propose a usable hook. Narutolovehinata5 has raised a WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE objection, which I agree with. You need to propose a hook that anyone can understand which means contextualizing the term "Ratnākara" (most people won't know what or who this is; ie its not clear this is even a person in the current hooks). I also would avoid using too many foreign language terms or names. "Kalhaṇa's Rājataraṅginī" for example will have no obvious context or meaning to the average English speaking person. You need to try and find a hook fact that someone who knows nothing about India or its history or its literature or its languages can understand. Best.4meter4 (talk) 18:56, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@TryKid here is an example of a hook that would be understandable to an English reader: ...that the poet Ratnākara is credited with authoring a now-lost chronicle of the kings of Kashmir that fulfills two gaps in the historical chronicle of the north-western part of Indian sub-continent? Best.4meter4 (talk) 19:19, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
4meter4, I thank you for the suggestion, and for allowing the nom more time despite the initial miscommunication. How about ALT 0a: ... that the poet Ratnākara may have invented the Sanskrit-language poetic device of "willful misconstrucal" (vakrokti)?
I understand it's not immediately clear what "willful misconstrucal" is to a non-specialist audience, but it would be something that draws the audience in, rather than all of the interesting information being in the hook. The phrase is from the Bronner and McCrea, p.436: "This device, vakrokti – “verbal perversion” or, more literally, “distortive-talk” – is traditionally defined as one speaker’s willful misconstrual of what has been said by another."
If this still fails the "specialised knowledge" criterion, feel free to reject the nomination as you initially intended, I can't really think of anything much better. Articles like this might not be cut-out for DYK. There's a "longest extant Sanskrit mahākāvya" hook, but that already ran with Haravijaya itself. regards, TryKid [dubious – discuss] 20:22, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@TryKid I think it reads weirdly but a slight modification based on that quote would be better: ALT 0b: ... that the poet Ratnākara may have invented the Sanskrit-language poetic device of "verbal perversion" (vakrokti)? I think this is hookier because the language is much more provocative. It will grab a reader's attention.4meter4 (talk) 21:17, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@4meter4 I don't think putting up suggestive stuff or innuendos even in a "bait and switch" contexts is a good DYK practice. Any of the other phrases from the paper—distortive talk, willful misconstrucal, intentional misinterpretation, verbal distortion—would be better. regards, TryKid [dubious – discuss] 21:38, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@TryKid That's fair. Based on that I think this would work: ALT 0c: ... that the poet Ratnākara may have invented the Sanskrit-language poetic device of "verbal distortion" (vakrokti)?
I am going to have another editor look at this alt since arguably I helped write Alt Oc.4meter4 (talk) 21:47, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just need an editor to approve of Alt Oc.4meter4 (talk) 21:47, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ALT0c fails WP:DYKDEFINITE as it is not a definite fact and would require attribution anyway.--Launchballer 12:13, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Launchballer, are attributed statments allowed on DYK? How about ALT 0d: ... that according to Yigal Bronner and Lawrence McCrea, the poet Ratnākara may have invented the Sanskrit-language poetic device of "verbal distortion" (vakrokti)?
Alternatively, a simpler version of alt2: ALT2b: ... that a now-lost chronicle of the kings of Kashmir is attributed to the author Ratnākara?
Even ALT1b: ... that the Sanskrit-language poem Vakroktipañcāśikā, authored by Ratnākara, employs the poetic device of "willful misconstrucal"? I believe these should be understandable by a lay Western audience. regards, TryKid [dubious – discuss] 16:06, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies for dropping this. ALT2b checks out; not seeing a full review here.--Launchballer 00:14, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Articles created/expanded on October 18

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Luo Shiwen

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Luo Shiwen
Luo Shiwen
  • Source: * Li Jingya (李惊亚) (4 April 2024). 探访息烽集中营旧址，追寻先烈们的热血与信仰 [Visit the Site of Xifeng Concentration Camp and Trace the Passion and Faith of the Martyrs]. Xinhua Daily Telegraph (in Chinese). Xinhua News Agency. Archived from the original on 14 October 2024. Retrieved 14 October 2024. (existence of the secret cell and its power is also confirmed by Mühlhahn, Klaus (2009). Criminal Justice in China: A History. Cambridge: Harvard University Press. p. 144. ISBN 978-0-674-05433-2.)
Created by Crisco 1492 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 691 past nominations.

 — Chris Woodrich (talk) 16:06, 18 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough

Policy compliance:

  • Adequate sourcing: No - Much of the article is cited to sources like "Devoting One's Efforts to the Party and the People is the Least of One's Worries——Deeds of Martyr Luo Shiwen", which doesn't speak well to their reliability. There is no consensus that Chinese government published sources are reliable for heroic deeds of party members (see, eg, WP:XINHUA).
  • Neutral: No - Unclear, see above
  • Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: No - ? Unable to evaluate translation copyvio from Chinese language sources

Hook eligibility:

  • Cited: Yes
  • Interesting: No - Hook could use improvement. Such underground groups developed in so many locations that political prisoners are jailed together

Image eligibility:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: (t · c) buidhe 04:59, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Hi Buidhe. Thank you for taking a look at this article, though I note that you are supposed to notify the article's creator if you find issues.
Referring to WP:XINHUA, which you mentioned in your review, the quorum mentioned there reads "Caution should be exercised in using this source, extremely so in case of extraordinary claims on controversial subjects or biographies of living people. When in doubt, try to find better sources instead; use inline attribution if you must use Xinhua." Little mentioned in the Luo Xinhua article crosses the bar of "extraordinary claims", and what does cross that bar is specifically attributed to the source (with an indication that it is state-owned). He lived, he did something, he was detained, he was executed. Where these government sources have been used, I have been careful not to use their description of persons whom the CCP has no reason to like (for example, the conflict with Zhang Guotao is cited to Howard rather than the decidedly less neutral CCP sources, and discussion of Xifeng is cited predominantly to a Harvard University Press book). Likewise, I have deliberately excluded politically charged claims such as Luo's father being bankrupted by the high ROC taxes.
As per WP:PARTISAN, "reliable sources are not required to be neutral, unbiased, or objective." WP:CONTEXTMATTERS clarifies that "Each source must be carefully weighed to judge whether it is reliable for the statement being made in the Wikipedia article and is an appropriate source for that content." In this case, the sources are used specifically for basic statements of biography. Where statements were extraordinary, such as Mao and Zhou specifically asking for Luo's release, it has been attributed to the source with an indication of the source's potential bias.
As for the hook, I am deliberately avoiding claims that are sourced exclusively to state-media. How do you feel about:
ALT1 ... that Luo Shiwen (pictured) led a secret cell of the Chinese Communist Party that negotiated better conditions for inmates at their concentration camp?
That ALT is supported entirely by Mühlhahn. Regards,  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 12:28, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Xinhua is, according to consensus, generally reliable for factual reporting except in areas where the government of China may have a reason to use it for propaganda, but this topic is exactly one where the Chinese government would have an interest in distorting its own history in order to make the CCP look better. Perhaps other reviewers would have a different opinion, but I don't think that Chinese government published sources should be cited so heavily. (In case you are looking for additional sources, this one is accessible via TWL and seems to mention the article subject). (t · c) buidhe 00:48, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think I have Wakeman sitting around somewhere. I'll cite that for a few points, and I can cite some more to the pithy provided by Howard. That being said, a blanket prohibition against mainland Chinese sources (we've been talking about Xinhua, but Sichuan Annals are cited more prevalently, and both the original books and the web edition have the same government ties) for a figure of little interest to KMT historians does seem counter-productive. It may be best to have a third opinion. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:39, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I also don't think there should be a ban on CCP sources for uncontroversial statements. I'll investigate further when my head's a bit clearer.--Launchballer 10:55, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Or indeed, any Chinese government-backed sources; claims should be assessed on their merits. (They probably aren't making up "son of a saltmonger", for example.) @Buidhe: what specific sentences are you objecting to?--Launchballer 13:06, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My interpretation (see above) is that there is a consensus that the Chinese government sources are not reliable where they have an incentive to lie for propaganda purposes. When it comes to the heroic deeds of a Communist party member, there is an obvious incentive for propaganda. This does not apply to basic biographical information that does not reflect positively or negatively on the subject (t · c) buidhe 02:12, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Crisco 1492: Are you able to find other, more reliable sources to verify the information? Z1720 (talk) 15:48, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hi Z1720; as I mentioned above, I have attributed all extraordinary claims to non-Party sources, or made it explicit that sources may be biased in the running text. The remainder is, to the best of my assessment, basic biographic data (for example, "At the time, following the May Fourth Movement and in the midst of the New Culture Movement, he and his cousins had begun reading communist publication", cited to the Sichuan Annals). One might object to "inciting more [peasant] uprisings", but given that was the standard MO of the CCP in the 1930s, I don't feel that it meets the extraordinary or heroic threshold.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 16:00, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looking at the article, I don't think any of the claims sourced to refs 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 13, 17, 18, or 19 meet the criteria outlined at WP:EXCEPTIONAL.--Launchballer 01:18, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requesting a reviewer. Right now we seem to be at an impasse.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 14:22, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

White Party (Sean Combs)

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Created by No Swan So Fine (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 122 past nominations.

No Swan So Fine (talk) 21:17, 23 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

  • Hello No Swan So Fine: article created within a week of nomination; QPQ checks out; hook is interesting; no copyvio detected; source checks out. My only question: would it be better to call Mr. Combs by his more well known name of P. Diddy or Diddy? I'm not sure if I'd click on the DYK if it said Sean Combs, I'd be much more likely to do so if it said Diddy, given the recent news and memes. My only thought. ~Darth StabroTalk • Contribs 05:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Darth Stabro: I think we should respect the name he currently goes by ... but P. Diddy is certainly better for views! No Swan So Fine (talk) 19:05, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No Swan So Fine sounds good! Nihil obstat. ~Darth StabroTalk • Contribs 04:38, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Darth Stabro and No Swan So Fine: I have MOS:EGG concerns regarding the hook, in that no-one will know where the bolded link goes. Any way to rephrase? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:52, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ALT1 ... that during one of his Diddy parties, Sean Combs promised not to spill champagne on the Declaration of Independence?
I like how that sounds.~Darth StabroTalk • Contribs 00:50, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure if the hook needs to specify "an original copy of", and I have no opinion if the hook should say "P Diddy" or not, though depending on how he was called at the time, maybe that might be a point of discussion? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:47, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Articles created/expanded on October 20

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Mwene Muji

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  • ... that Mwene Muji was a polity in the Congo Basin which declined in the late 19th century, and when the Belgians collected traditions in 1926, grand claims of its once imperial status were dismissed?
  • ALT1 ... that Mwene Muji was a polity in the Congo Basin, and when the Belgians collected traditions in 1926, grand claims of its once imperial status were dismissed?
  • ALT2 ... that the grand claims from the ruler of Mwene Muji of them once having imperial status were dismissed by Belgian colonial authorities?
  • Reviewed:
Created by Kowal2701 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Kowal2701 (talk) 19:48, 20 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

@Kowal2701: I've also checked the article and right now it's less than 1500 characters long. DYK requires a minimum of 1500 characters of prose to be accepted. If you can expand the article further so that it meets the guidelines then less us know, but if that is not feasible then unfortunately the nomination will have to be rejected. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:20, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@User:Narutolovehinata5 the hook is 197 words long, and it gives context the fact which is that their grand claims were dismissed. I wouldn't say it summarises the article, just the last few sentences. I can expand it further, I think at the moment it's at 1200 words. Are you sure the hook isn't okay?

Yes, the hook is far too long for DYK, even if it is slightly under the character limit. Perhaps another editor like Launchballer can give some advice on what makes a good hook, especially one that isn't too long. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:50, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@User:Narutolovehinata5 but surely if it's under the character limit then the length is okay?
I’ve added alts, I think I know what you were getting at, that the initial hook had too much information in it and wouldn’t entice the reader to click on the article. I think ALT2 is okay? Kowal2701 (talk) 13:18, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, ALT2 would work. Since the original issues about length and hooks are now addressed this is ready for a full review. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:42, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
General: Article is new enough and long enough

Policy compliance:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: Done.

Overall: Article is new enough, long enough, is neutral and plagiarism free and a QPQ is not needed. Hook is cited and interesting. On sourcing, the article would benefit with a wider range of references, perhaps this, this or this will help? There's also a couple of points to address with clairication and 'by whom' tags inline. Also, how Mwene Muji is referred to changes between the second and third paragraphs - it moves to their - so the pronoun just needs to be standardised throughout. Also the lead should summarise the parapgraphs below, so do add detail from the lead below too. Great to see an article on the topic, and the map is great. Lajmmoore (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much for your time, that'll improve the article loads. I'll have a dig through Google Books but English sources are incredibly scarce. Those sources are good, thank you Kowal2701 (talk) 17:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@User:Lajmmoore Is that good now? Kowal2701 (talk) 22:05, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Articles created/expanded on October 22

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Revant Himatsingka

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  • Reviewed:
  • Comment: I think this is quite an interesting feat on the part of the influencer that a viral video was able to get Cadbury to reduce added sugar in Bournvita (marketed as children's health drink in India) by almost 15%, even as they sent legal notices and filed lawsuits against him. Also, I am new to DYK, and not sure if the hook could be made better than this. Thanks!
Moved to mainspace by CX Zoom (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

—CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 20:22, 26 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

  • General eligibility:
  • New enough: Yes
  • Long enough: Yes
  • Other problems: No - Article has some very rough language and needs a good copyedit. I have also added a "lead too short" tag.
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: None required.

Overall: Article is new enough, long enough. Earwig doesn't flag any issues. However, we aren't ready to move forward yet due to the grammatical issues and the underdeveloped lede.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 22:09, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

National Gingerbread House Competition

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2008 competition entries
2008 competition entries
  • Reviewed:
Created by Hkeely (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Hkeely (talk) 15:55, 22 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Thanks Hkeely. The length is now fine, article was created on time (22 October), sources used look to be reliable for the content and I found no issues with overly close paraphrasing, image is good (I trimmed the caption quite a bit). A couple of questions on sourcing:
  • I couldn't see in the Fox Carolina source where it said this was the only time the event had been cancelled?
  • Can you add a citation in the article for the last sentence of the first paragraph about the TV channels it has been broadcast on?
Apart from that I think this is good to go - Dumelow (talk) 07:32, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Dumelow. Thank you for checking this and trimming the caption. I've added a citation for the TV channel coverage. The cancelation information is because the contest started in 1992 and this would have been the 32nd annual event. Since there were 31 events prior, that adds up mathematically. I did include new information about the public display portion being canceled during the Covid pandemic in 2020, though judging did continue that year. - Hkeely (talk) 17:47, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Hkeely, if the first event was held in 1992 and it was held every year then 2024 would have been the 33rd event. There are 32 years between the first and last event but 33 events (see fencepost error) - Dumelow (talk) 08:28, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Hkeely: Please address the above. Z1720 (talk) 15:54, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Z1720: The competition hosts themselves say that the event started in 1992 and that 2024 would have been the 32nd annual competition. https://www.omnihotels.com/hotels/asheville-grove-park/things-to-do/national-gingerbread-competition I presume this is the case because the first year wasn't actually judged. Hkeely (talk) 19:37, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Hkeely and Z1720: Sorry for delay in replying. I am not sure that is enough for us to assume it is the first time, but happy if another reviewer thinks it is. Is there an alternative wording we can look at? - Dumelow (talk) 10:22, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Hkeely: Going purely off what's on this nom, the hook is not accurate and should be replaced.--Launchballer 13:04, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ALT1 ... that despite its name, the National Gingerbread House Competition (pictured) has featured gingerbread clock towers, ocean liners, and giant pandas?
Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:48, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ALT2: ... that despite its name, the National Gingerbread House Competition (pictured) has featured gingerbread merry-go-rounds, sea monsters, and even the Statue of Liberty?
Hi all. Merry-go-rounds, sea monsters, and the Statue of Liberty proposed in (what I have labelled) ALT2 are not mentioned in the article. "clock towers, ocean liners, and giant pandas" are mentioned in the article but not the source cited there - Dumelow (talk) 18:43, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Hkeely: Just for clarification, you should not have replaced the original hook (ALT0) with the new one (ALT2), as this could cause confusion regarding the nomination history. I've restored the original hook to its place (albeit struck out to show that it is no longer under consideration), and moved ALT2 to later in the discussion. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 05:07, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Articles created/expanded on October 24

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A Nail Clipper Romance

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Created by Prince of Erebor (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 22 past nominations.

Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 06:17, 24 October 2024 (UTC). [reply]

Sources
  1. ^ 羅偉強 (16 April 2017). "【指甲刀人魔】彭浩翔關智耀專訪 拆解人魔由來". HK01 (in Chinese). Retrieved 24 October 2024. 《指甲刀人魔》雲集兩岸三地演員，而香港代表僅得鄭伊健一人。在戲中作為唯一香港演員，卻不融入一眾內地與台灣演員中一起說普通話，到底為什麼有這樣的安排呢？莫非導演想令《指甲刀人魔》保留多一點香港氣息？原來導演與監製別有心思。「我們想演員以他最熟悉的語言去演繹，會令他以最自然的狀態去完成演出。」關智耀這樣說。而一旁的彭浩翔則從夏威夷的角色出發，他說：「我們在夏威夷所見的，就是很多華人根本就是廣東話與普通話夾雜。他們有一部分人從香港來，亦有部分從內地台灣來。因此我們覺得鄭伊健說廣東話，而其他人說普通話是很夏威夷的一件事。」無論原因是何，作為香港人的大家在戲中聽著伊健講廣東話，都會有多一分親切感吧。 [The film A Nail Clipper Romance features a cast from China, Taiwan, and Hong Kong, with only Ekin Cheng representing Hong Kong. As the sole actor from Hong Kong, he does not speak Mandarin alongside the Chinese and Taiwanese actors. Why is this arrangement in place? Could it be that the director wants to retain a bit of Hong Kong’s essence in A Nail Clipper Romance? It turns out the director and producer have their reasons. "We want the actors to perform in the language they are most comfortable with, as it allows them to present their most natural state", says director Jason Kwan. Meanwhile, Pang Ho-cheung reflects on the Hawaiian context, stating, "What we see in Hawaii is that many Chinese people mix Cantonese and Mandarin. Some come from Hong Kong, while others come from the mainland and Taiwan. Therefore, we felt that having Ekin Cheng speak Cantonese while the others speak Mandarin is very representative of Hawaii". Regardless of the reason, as Hong Kongers, hearing Ekin speak Cantonese in the film adds a sense of familiarity and warmth.]
  2. ^ Ku, Daniel (6 April 2017). "愛情奇幻喜劇《指甲刀人魔》，張孝全、周冬雨夏威夷浪漫談情". Vogue Taiwan (in Chinese). Retrieved 7 October 2024. 到2010年，彭導與網路大電影合作，拍了名為《4夜奇譚》的網路短片系列，其中一夜就是由曾國祥和尹志文執導的《指甲刀人魔》，女主角更是找來周迅。當時影片獲得極高評價，大家都想知道故事的後續發展，因此彭導便有延伸為長篇電影的計畫，只是沒想到計畫一擱就是七年。 [By 2010, director Pang [Ho-cheung] collaborated with an online production company to create a series of web shorts called 4+1 Project, one of which is A Nail Clipper Romance, directed by Derek Tsang and Jimmy Wan, starring Zhou Xun as the female lead. At the time, the film was positively received, and everyone wanted to know what happened next in the story. As a result, Pang decided to expand it into a feature film, although the project ended up being put on hold for seven years.]
  3. ^ "鄭伊健去夏威夷拍戲勁開心 周冬雨讚張孝全性格夠獨特". Sing Tao Daily (in Chinese). 9 March 2017. Archived from the original on 12 March 2017. Retrieved 7 October 2024. 由於全片在夏威夷取景，周冬雨因此愛上衝浪，她更透露跟監製彭浩翔一起衝浪有無比的榮耀感，彭浩翔學了七八節課，但她學了兩節就追上了。 [Since the entire film is shot in Hawaii, Zhou Dongyu falls in love with surfing. She also reveals that she was proud to surf with producer Pang Ho-cheung, as Pang took seven or eight lessons, while she only took two lessons before catching up to him.]
  4. ^ 翁新涵 (25 November 2016). "尷尬了╱阮經天緋聞女友 來台喊許瑋甯「奶奶」". Nownews (in Chinese). Retrieved 21 October 2024. 根據周冬雨表示，她主演的新片《指甲刀人魔》，有邀請許瑋甯客串 [According to Zhou Dongyu, in her new film A Nail Clipper Romance, [she] did invite Tiffany Ann Hsu to make a cameo appearance.]
  5. ^ Wong, Silva (16 March 2017). "'Love Off The Cuff' director talks Hong Kong festival opener". Screen Daily. Retrieved 24 October 2024. Despite his busy schedule as a writer/director, Pang takes time out to produce for new filmmakers such as Wan, Luk and Jason Kwan, the DoP on both Love In A Puff and Love In The Buff. The latter's directorial debut A Nail Clipper Romance, starring Zhou Dongyu and Joseph Chang, opens on April 14.
  • Comment: @Prince of Erebor: A few things stand out to me: the poor critical reception/box office performance? is played down in the lead section in a somewhat ingenious way, by emphasizing the positive reviews of the short film it is based upon. I think you should fix that as it presents a neutrality issue. In other words, summarize the reception in the lead, not the previous work. The other thing I noticed is that the article says the film took place in the state of Hawaii several times. While it’s fine to say that at least once, subsequent mention should specify it was filmed specifically on the island of Oahu in and around the city of Honolulu, if the sources can support that. There are also opportunities to link to specific articles about the Chinese population in Hawaii. Leaning towards ALT2 at the moment although I wonder if it can be made more interesting than it is with other details. More later. Viriditas (talk) 18:10, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Hi Viriditas! Thanks a lot for taking up the review, but I beg to differ with both of your current suggestions. The "positive reviews" in the lead refer to the short film, which explains why a full-length feature was developed afterward, and this is supported by multiple sources. I do not find this description to be faulty. Meanwhile, I have not found any sources that comment on or summarize the critical reception and box office performance. From the current reviews listed, I do not believe it is conclusive that the film was poorly received, as some critics have given it 3.5/5 and expressed various positive opinions on the premise, themes, and performances. Regarding box office performance, it is also subjective to judge whether it is positive or negative, as arthouse films like this one typically gross less than blockbusters. I would summarize the box office performance as poor only if supported by multiple sources, like in Miss Shampoo or The Invincible Dragon. For your second suggestion, I have only mentioned the film being shot in Hawaii once in the filming section. The other mentions focus on different topics, like casting choices or creative decisions based on the demographics of Hawaiians. There are no specific references to the filming locations in Hawaii, so I cannot specify which part of Hawaii the film was shot in. I am also unsure if mentioning the specific location has any bearing on why the crew chose to film there or why Ekin Cheng was willing to join the project. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 18:40, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think you might have misunderstood me. By emphasizing the positive review of a different film in the lead, and ignoring the poor critical reception (3.5 is pretty mediocre, and there are other poor reviews and apparently bad box office results) that presents a neutrality issue. You will want to very briefly note the critical reception of this film in the lead, regardless of the positive reception of the other film. As for Hawaii, there are eight islands in the state. The film industry is in Oahu, but not all films are shot there. Given what we know so far, this entire film was shot on Oahu in and around Honolulu. This should be easy to source. I’m sorry we disagree. Viriditas (talk) 18:46, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Viriditas, I believe we are on the same page. My point is that the characterization of the film's box office performance and critical reception as "poor" is not supported by sources and is purely subjective. I see this as a form of OR. But I understand your concerns, and perhaps it would be better to remove the mention of positive reviews for the short film from the lead instead? Regarding the filming location, could you please provide me with the source that confirms the film was shot in Oahu? I conducted a research quite thoroughly while writing the article and do not recall seeing this mentioned in any English or Chinese RS. Please let me know if I am mistaken or have overlooked any sources. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 19:05, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Let's take it one topic at a time; my old brain doesn't multitask as well as it should. First things first: can you briefly summarize the critical reception in the lead? Viriditas (talk) 19:10, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Viriditas, my answer is no, because I do not see a conclusive consensus among the reviews. Summarizing the box office performance and a handful of critics' opinions subjectively and labeling the film as "poorly received" is a form of WP:SYNTH in my opinion. But if you find the phrase "positive reviews" in the lead to be misleading, I am fine with removing the mention of the short film's reception. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 19:25, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, I think we might be speaking past each other. Is there any reason you cannot summarize the critical reception section you've written in the body of the article and add it to the lead, to the best of your ability? Just in case you don't know, we summarize "mixed reviews" in the lead all the time. Maybe check out other articles with similar reception? Perhaps you aren't aware of this, which would explain the back and forth. There's several ways to do it, but the most common involve characterizing the type of review in the first part of the sentence ("The film received mixed reviews from critics"), and then in the second part, describing the box office results ("and became a box office bomb"). These are just examples. Viriditas (talk) 19:34, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Viriditas, I believe we are still on the same page. I am aware that mixed reviews exist, I have used this term in another recent article of mine (Get the Hell Out). In that case, the inclusion was based on a cited Rotten Tomatoes score of 5.9, so it does not involve original research. Many film articles lack a summary of critical reception exactly because of WP:SYNTH. An example that come to mind is Deadpool and Wolverine, where editors voted not to include a critical reception summary in the lead due to concerns about SYNTH. There are also no sources indicating that the film failed at the box office. While it may not have grossed enough to make the list of top grossing films in 2017, that does not equate to it being a box office bomb, and I still see the assertion as a form of OR. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 19:53, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am sorry, but it appears that you are still misreading me. Please summarize the critical reception to the best of your ability (as I described above) and place it in the lead section. The specific decision and rationale not to include a critical reception section in Deadpool and Wolverine does not apply here. Further, that film received mostly positive reviews, so the dispute in that particular instance isn't really relevant. We know D&W received a positive, critical reception. One of the problems here is how accurate or inaccurate Metacritic scores are in this regard, and that led to the perception that D&W received a less than positive reception. That's really getting into the weeds, and there's no similar problem here. However, you could ask, did this film receive mostly positive reviews, did it receive mixed reviews, or did it receive poor reviews? Whatever your answer is, please briefly mention it in the lead. By describing a different film as "positive" and ignoring the critical reception in the lead, you are giving readers a false impression of what the reception was actually like. This is a problem. Viriditas (talk) 20:04, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Viriditas, sorry but I believe you are also misreading me. I have already acknowledged your concern that the term "positive reviews" could mislead readers regarding the reception of this film, and I proposed removing the mention of the short film's reception. (But if you find the phrase "positive reviews" in the lead to be misleading, I am fine with removing the mention of the short film's reception.) This should have already addressed your concerns about neutrality or misleading information. The reason a summary was not included in the D&W article is the same rationale for why I am not adding one now. Adding a summary (positive, mixed, negative, whatever) you are suggesting is purely original research and a synthesis of the sources. If there are no sources or review aggregators to support the claim that the article is generally viewed as positive, divisive, or negative by critics, then adding my own assessment of their opinions would be considered SYNTH. I am also somewhat puzzled by this conversation, as identifying OR should be WP editing 101 and my concerns about WP:V should be quite clear. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 20:35, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The reason a summary was not included in the D&W article is the same rationale for why I am not adding one now. No, it's actually quite different. It is not OR to summarize or to state the critical reception for this film in the lead and there's literally no connection to the arguments made in the D&W article, which received overwhelmingly positive reviews. This is why ignoring the critical reception in the lead for D&W is the default, as it received mostly positive, not negative feedback. I can assure you, if D&W had received a negative reception, the default would have been to mention that. By not mentioning it in D&W, the reader is not given information about negative reception. Do you see how this works? The opposite is true here. You are free, of course, to do what you like, but priming the reader with mentioning a "positive" review of an altogether different film while ignoring the poor to mediocre, to mixed reviews (and box office performance) of this film is a neutrality issue. I'm once again sorry that we see this so differently. Perhaps you will find others to agree with your position. Viriditas (talk) 20:42, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Viriditas, I must respectfully disagree with you. The editors who participated in the survey for the D&W article specifically discussed issues related to synthesis. While the film may seem overwhelmingly positive to you, there are also negative reviews out there. In fact, all four wording options discussed in that survey addressed the non-positive, divisive reviews. By not mentioning it in D&W, the reader is not given information about negative reception. The current critical response section also included negative reviews from like San Francisco Chronicle, The Hollywood Reporter, and one-star review from The Irish Times. So no, that is not the case. It is because reviews from an opposite stance exist, a positive/mixed reception summary would not be appropriate. This echoes my point that adding a subjective summary suggesting that the film underperformed based on what you and I think, constitutes original research. I have also repeatedly acknowledged your concern that the positive reception of the short film in the lead is misleading and have offered to remove that line. (I have rephrased it just now and I hope this address your concerns.) So I do not really see a reason to continue adding a summary of the reception and box office performance. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 20:54, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's definitely an improvement, but I do want to say that I see zero relationship between the argument made in the D&W discussion, which defaults to the absence of negative critical commentary in the lead based on all of the available evidence, as well as an indication that the critical reception was first and foremost controversial, and this article, which did not receive a positive reception and where the critical reception was not controversial. There's literally no comparison. I get that you are making this comparison, but it doesn't exist, IMO. Now, if you think the critical reception of this film was controversial, I am happy to review the matter, and if true, that is indeed, a supporting argument for keeping it out of the lead. But as far as I can tell, the critics and the audiences didn't like this film and it performed poorly at the box office. By keeping this out of the lead, it gives the impression of a neutrality problem. Now, with all that said, the question becomes, does it need to be in the lead? Aside from obvious controversies where representing the critical reception is difficult or disputed (i.e. D&W), I would say yes, but with the additional caveat that local consensus, as we've seen with D&W, can override this, particularly in instances where the default position doesn't deviate from the overall reception. It might help to get clarification from the film project talk page on this. They are usually pretty active, even during the holidays. The NPOV noticeboard might even be a better place, I don't know. However, keeping it out of the lead does not appear neutral to me at all. More so, if the sources emphasize that the film was received poorly with critics and the box office. So we are still divided on this subtopic. I would prefer to work towards an agreement on this with you, but I don't think that's going to happen. One other thing: have you added critical reception to the lead before in your other film articles that notes a poor, mediocre, or mixed reception status? If so, what makes this article different than the others? If not, why not? Your careful reasoning and answer to those two questions could conceivably bring me over to your side, leading me to drop this. Viriditas (talk) 21:20, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Viriditas , sorry, but I still only see you asserting that critics and audiences didn't like this film and that it performed poorly at the box office. Based on what is currently in the article, there are at least some positive to mediocre reviews, and the total gross exceeds the film's budget. It is hardly accurate to describe it as having a negative reception or being a box office bomb. Labeling the film in this way is just your subjective judgement based on what you have seen about the film and it truly harms the article's neutrality. While if the reception is mixed and the box office performance is merely average, whether or not to mention these is unrelated to neutrality and I do not see the urge to add such phrases. I am generally open to adding or removing content from articles, like I would be happy to include the precise filming locations you mentioned if sources are available, but this just seems like original research to me. I also do not see the necessity to escalate this, as again, I think this is WP editing 101. But I would not object to seeking a third opinion.
  • Regarding your final question, yes, I certainly do. Examples include positive reviews for Mongrel (2024 film), mixed reviews for Get the Hell Out, and negative reviews for The Invincible Dragon. My rationale for adding a summary is based on the existence of a conclusive consensus among critics' opinions. For these articles, there are Rotten Tomatoes scores, which aggregate all critical reviews and can be interpreted as the consensus of the majority of critics. There are exceptions, like 18×2 Beyond Youthful Days, where multiple reputable sources describe the film as both a box office and critical success. But in this case, there is neither a consensus summarized by review aggregators nor multiple reliable sources. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 21:52, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Was this film a box office success or a box office bomb? In other words, did it break even by a large amount? When you look at the budget and compare it to the raw, unadjusted revenue, it looks like the film made US $34,000 dollars. Perhaps I'm reading this wrong? Also, your own source says it did poorly at the box office and implies it lost money because in that market romantic films do poorly. We're still not on the same page. I have not fully analyzed the critical reviews just yet so I'm keeping that separate until later. But it appears that in terms of the box office, the sources say it did not do well. Viriditas (talk) 22:18, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Viriditas: Yes, you have read things wrong. The film had a budget of USD$386,000 (HKD$3 million) excluding government funding, and grossed approximately USD$620,000 (RMB$4.49 million). I would not classify it as a box office success, and I am not well-versed in the film industry and cannot determine how much profit or loss the production company made based on these figures. However, it is common sense that a gross greater than the budget would not typically qualify as a box office bomb. Regarding the translated source, it refers to Zhou Dongyu's other film The Breaking Ice (燃冬), not this one (A Nail Clipper Romance; 指甲刀人魔). I am the one who added that source so of course I know what was written there... I have found no sources indicating that this film was a "box office failure". Please share any you might find. To be honest, I am starting to find this discussion somewhat pointless, as neither of us seems able to convince the other. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 22:31, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • 4.9 million including government funding, 3 million excluding. Do you really think I do not know what I typed in the article??
  • Okay Viriditas, let me be clear. I believe your request to add a subjective summary labeling the film as poorly received and a box office failure constitutes blatant original research and violates WP:V. Your concerns about WP:NPOV have already been addressed with the removal of the short film's reception (which was actually sourced) from the lead. Even if a summary were included, it would only reflect "mixed reviews" and "average box office performance", which does not relate to your concerns about misleading or sugarcoating the film's actual reception. Since not adding a summary would no longer have anything to do with WP:NPOV, but adding one could impact both verifiability and neutrality imo, I refuse to include these policy-violating claims in the article. So we can either continue the review and set this issue aside, as your concerns have been adequately addressed, or you may choose to seek a third opinion, though I believe that is totally unnecessary. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 22:55, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don’t know why you think summarizing the critical reception in the lead is a policy violation. That is an extremely unusual idea. Last comment to address the previous ones I ignored: "If a film released in theatres fails to break even by a large amount, it is considered a box-office bomb." List of biggest box-office bombs lists dozens of films that made more than their budget. That is neither here nor there. To address your previous point, you said I was citing material about a different film, but looking at it again after your criticism, it appears to be referring to this film. Here’s the material I was referring to: 和关智斌、张孝全等人主演的《指甲刀人魔》票房449.9万元。事实证明，演员能不能扛票房真的不好说，有运气和选剧本的能力左右，比如吴京主演的《巨齿鲨2》票房不如第一部，还有沈腾演出的《超能一家人》票房才3亿多，所以没有演员敢拍着胸膛说自己主演的电影票房一定大卖。当然周冬雨主演票房很低的电影，其实制作成本可能也不是很高，但绝对都亏损。周冬雨很少演出商业大片，所以她的票房都不怎么样，爱情片的票房本身就不是很高，特别偏文艺片的电影。If that means something else, let me know. My reading of this (当然周冬雨主演票房很低的电影，其实制作成本可能也不是很高，但绝对都亏损。周冬雨很少演出商业大片，所以她的票房都不怎么样，爱情片的票房本身就不是很高，特别偏文艺片的电影) is that it is referring to both films. Also, throughout this discussion you have insisted that I have wanted to add a qualitative statement to the lead, but you ignored the original question mark in my initial comment, identifying that I don’t know what that statement should actually be. I’ve tried to explain this to you, but you keep repeating the same thing for some odd reason. The questions remain: "how did critics receive this film and how well did it do at the box office?" As the reader, I wanted to know the answer. When I read the lead, I expected to find out, only to discover than an altogether different film received a positive reception, not this one. That is my last and final comment on this matter. Viriditas (talk) 23:15, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Viriditas, yes, I have already mentioned that the source did not address this. The source lists the box office grosses of Zhou Dongyu's entire filmography, ranging from A Fangirl's Romance at USD 329,000 to Embrace Again at USD 129 million. Even if you are viewing it through Google Translate, you can still see the listings and it is separated into different paragraphs. So the statements you quoted obviously do not refer to A Nail Clipper Romance, otherwise the $129 million gross would also become a box office failure. And no, I did not ignore your statements. I have repeatedly mentioned that mixed reviews fall under SYNTH as well, but you have repeatedly focused on the poor reception you perceive in your replies, which is why I feel the need to address it more often than the other potential stances. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 23:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I said I wasn't going to revisit the above, so I won't. The problem of synth in regards to critical reception in lead sections was a specific, local consensus problem for D&W, not for other film articles. This was because of the unique set of circumstances regarding the sources. This was made clear in the responses by the participants. You are extrapolating the result of an article content page RFC out to all film leads. That's not how an article-specific RFC works at all. See WP:LOCALCONSENSUS. It may be wise to get some input from the larger film community over at their project page. Viriditas (talk) 23:59, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Viriditas, this will be my final response on this issue as well, as I do not find this conversation progressing in a meaningful way. The reason I mentioned D&W is that you brought up "other articles". Just in case you don't know, we summarize "mixed reviews" in the lead all the time. Maybe check out other articles with similar reception? Therefore, I raised another article that also has a divisive reception and involved thorough discussions among editors regarding the decision to omit the reception summary, that aligns with the rationale I am proposing here. My intention was to provide a noteworthy example, one that is more high-traffic and has a relatively large number of participants in the RFC, to ensure we are on the same page and that the summary is not left out for other reasons or merely reflecting the consensus of a handful of random editors. Of course, I understand if you view the concerns raised by the editors in that RFC as specific to that article and reflective of a mere local consensus, as context always matters. I only hope this gives you a clearer picture of my and at least some editors' perspectives about the potential SYNTHiness in the lead reception summary. D&W is just an example, synthesis is my main point, and I have explained my rationale on adding these summaries as well. Perhaps we have different interpretations of the definition of OR, which is perfectly fine, as editors often have varying views on WP guidelines. I have already offered to remove the potentially NPOV-violating weasel words that has disturbed you multiple times (since my second reply), in hopes of truly addressing the issues. However, you have ignored this and instead continue to push for the addition of a summary that you deem necessary, without fully addressing why you believe SYNTH does not apply to the reception summary in this case, convincing me that the poor reception is supported by RS rather than personal opinions, or providing a new rationale after the NPOV concerns have been addressed. Therefore, as I said, while I would not object to seeking a third opinion to move this review forward, I still find it unnecessary because, to me, this is a clear case of SYNTH, and I do not find it beneficial to continue wasting time on it.
  • Regarding the source, Sino-Cinema.com appeared to be a WP:RSPWORDPRESS blog to me. But upon checking the author, I would not object that Derek Elley may be considered a SME due to his career at Variety, and the filming locations are not controversial claims that would require the best, reputable sources, so I will treat this as a SPS. It is a nice addition, as it even details the filming period as late 2014, while the Screen Daily source only vaguely suggested the timeframe. I have added it to the article. Thanks for your finding!! —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 04:55, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Second opinion requested. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:28, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Articles created/expanded on October 25

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Boxheim Documents

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SPD poster for the 1932 Prussian state election using these documents to attack the NSDAP
SPD poster for the 1932 Prussian state election using these documents to attack the NSDAP
  • Source: Press and Politics in the Weimar Republic. OUP Oxford. pp. 186–187.
Created by Jean Po (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Jean Po (talk) 15:40, 25 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

  • The article was made on the 25th, so is new enough. At many times the required length, it is long enough. The article reads neutrally and properly uses in-line citations. The copyvio detector finds nothing outside of explicit quotes in the article. Both hooks are interesting and cited in-line and utilized properly from the listed sources. The suggested image is in the public domain and visibly identifiable. No QPQ needs to be done. Looks good to go! SilverserenC 01:20, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Jean Po, Silver seren, and Crisco 1492: I have pulled this hook on interestingness grounds. There is nothing whatsoever unusual about Nazis treating Jews poorly.--Launchballer 21:46, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, what about the original hook? I think that the Nazis were planning a full out coup, rather than their (admitted coerced through other events) political victory later, is interesting, particularly the effects that had at the time of the reveal of this plan. SilverserenC 22:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No comment on interestingness, but I have tagged uncited material in the article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:17, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Jean Po: Please address the above.--Launchballer 01:25, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Citations added. --Jean Po (talk) 17:40, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Jean Po: Apologies for not responding earlier. ALT2 would need end-of-sentence citations rather than just trans tags.--Launchballer 13:16, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Done--Jean Po (talk) 13:40, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It isn't.--Launchballer 02:29, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Articles created/expanded on October 28

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Gilopez Kabayao

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  • Source: "As the first Filipino violinist to perform at the prestigious Carnegie Hall in New York in 1950, Gilopez Kabayao broke new ground and brought pride to the nation." —Philippine Daily Inquirer / Inquirer.net; "He performed in prestigious venues, including Carnegie Hall in New York in 1950, making him the first Filipino violinist to do so." —SunStar
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Anatolii Brezvin
  • Comment: Many sources state that Kabayao's Carnegie Hall performance in 1950 was done when he was 19 years old, but this is impossible if he was born in 1929 so I omitted this from the article and therefore the hook. This error might affect the hook under WP:EXCEPTIONAL and especially since a different source (Manila Bulletin) says, "Kabayao is widely believed to be the first Filipino to play at the prestigious Carnegie Hall in New York City".
Created by Seav (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

seav (talk) 23:53, 3 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

  • Considering the exceptional claim of him being the first, and thus the related uncertainty, maybe we could go with a different hook angle here. How about:
ALT1 ... that Filipino violinist Gilopez Kabayao was nicknamed the "Mozart to the Barrios"?
No opinion on the state of the article itself, although admittedly it is rather lacking in hooky material. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:04, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Article was new and long enough for DYK at the time of nomination. The opening paragraph reads a little puffy to me, with the nicknames and the virtuoso quote, especially since we don't say who gave him all these impressive sounding nicknames (ie, the press in general through his career? One guy one time and it stuck?). Is there a way to tone it down a bit, perhaps by giving them some context - he was given those names because he went to unusual places to play, and that's not even mentioned in the article.
Otherwise, no concerns about CV, all similar phrases are basic facts or proper nouns. No other policy concerns. NLH's suggested hook is present and referenced and reasonably interesting. No QPQ required, no other concerns. Pinging Seav to advise. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 03:53, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am OK with ALT1 if we feel that the originally proposed hook is not sufficiently attested by the sources. As for the puffiness of the article, I am not sure how that can be remedied as these nicknames or sobriquets are cited and I couldn't find other available sources stating why these nicknames were given to the subject. There is actually a primary source book (written by his wife) that could potentially provide insight, but I'm not sure if using this as a source is acceptable enough for Wikipedia. Besides I don't have access to this book either. —seav (talk) 12:08, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Seav, okay, you don't have info about who gave these nicknames, but the sources already cited in the article do say they were given because of his tendency to go to out-of-the-way places to perform, and that isn't in the article. Having that context would certainly reduce some of the appearance of puffery, and is easy to cite from the sources you already have. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 12:11, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chromakopia

(
)
  • ... that the physical version of Chromakopia contains an extra song?
  • ... that Tyler's album-related truck could be seen in Tyler?
    • 5x expanded by MontanaMako (talk).
    • Reviewed:
    Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    MontanaMako (talk) 21:50, 30 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    @Narutolovehinata5; just added a new one. Is it any better? MontanaMako (talk) 16:38, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Narutolovehinata5: Please respond to the above. Z1720 (talk) 16:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Will leave the decision to another reviewer, but it's better than the original. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 18:05, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    New reviewer needed. Z1720 (talk) 15:08, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    • @MontanaMako: Page is new enough and long enugh, nominator QPQ exempt, hook fact checks out. I can't approve yet, as I need a citation on Music critics characterized Chromakopia as an early midlife crisis album revolving around the concerns young adults have over their newfound adulthood. Its protagonist, St. Chroma, is introduced on the opening track of the same name. ALT1 is the only way this gets done possibly with a different wording (as an option): Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 05:44, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ALT1a: ... that trucks in Tyler promoted Tyler's latest album?
    Placing a DYK? icon to indicate that a review has been done. Flibirigit (talk) 06:35, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Chernobyl Reactors 5 and 6

    (
    )
    • ... that nearly 300 construction workers showed up to work at 8 am to continue building reactors 5 and 6, unaware of the Chernobyl disaster?
    • Reviewed:
    Created by Bollardant (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Bollardant (talk) 02:30, 28 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on October 30

    [edit]

    Karl Thielscher

    (
    )
    Improved to Good Article status by BeanieFan11 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 268 past nominations.

    BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:55, 6 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]


    General: Article is new enough and long enough
    Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems

    Hook eligibility:

    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: Article meets eligibility criteria. Was promoted to GA and nominated within 10 days of the promotion. Strange that no one has picked up this review for over 30 days. All good there, nevertheless. Adequately sourced. No issues with tone or neutrality. Earwig shows no issues with copyvio. QPQ done.

    Re: the hook, it seems like the interestingness stems from the fact that a player turned officiator (umpire / referee) within a year of retirement, albeit in this case as a backfill for an injured officiator. That said, I want to check if we can identify any other interesting hook. Happy to go with the current one if the nominator believes that this is a sufficiently uncommon occurrence and hence is interesting.

    Re: the usage of the hook, the article needs to be updated to include the hook's content directly in the article. Can easily be done by updating the sentence in the article. Once done please include the source at the end of that sentence(s).

    The source for the hook is a synthesis of two sources, one showing the retirement from a database and the officiating story from a newspaper archive. Which is perfectly alright. Please include as noted in the above paragraph.

    Returning back to the nominator. Ktin (talk) 17:17, 8 December 2024 (UTC) Ktin (talk) 17:17, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @Ktin and BeanieFan11: I was about to suggest the following:
    ALT1 ... that former player Karl Thielscher was thrust into becoming a referee for the American Professional Football Association when one of the regular referees was injured? (Note: I tried including the "within a year of retiring" aspect, but doing so put it above the 200 character limit)
    However, it seems to contradict the article. The article suggests that he was already a referee a month after retiring, meaning he was already had refereeing experience when the injury backfill happened. In which case, maybe the following would work better for clarity purposes?
    ALT2 ... that Karl Thielscher began refereeing American football games less than a month after retiring from playing the sport professionally?
    The issue I think is that the mention of "All-American" and the relevant context in the original hook may be confusing to a non-American football fan, even though the bones of a good hook fact are there. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:42, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @BeanieFan11 and Ktin: Are there issues with the two new hooks? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:37, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think the hooks are okay. I'm not sure if I made it clear enough in the initial hook, but what I thought interesting about that was not only that he was an NFL (then APFA) official within a year of playing, he specifically officiated games for the team that he had played for within a year (i.e. thought it might be interesting as having been a potential conflict of interest – he plays for an NFL team one year, then is the referee for their games the next). BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:58, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on October 31

    [edit]

    Gifted (2022 novella)

    (
    )
    • ... that in 2022, all five book nominations for the Akutagawa Prize were written by women, including former Japanese adult actress Suzumi Suzuki, who wrote Gifted after her own experiences?
    • Source: (Translated from Japanese to English)

    Suzuki Suzumi, whose book "Gifted" (Bungeishunju) was nominated for the 167th Akutagawa Prize, says that while her unexpected background has attracted attention, it has also led to prejudice and labelling.

    For the first time in history, only female writers have been nominated for the 167th Akutagawa Prize, which will be announced on July 20th. Among them, Suzuki Suzumi, who was nominated for "Gifted," made her AV debut while studying at Keio University. After that, she worked for a newspaper company and graduated from the University of Tokyo, and is now active as a writer and columnist, which has attracted attention for her unusual career.

    Source: Oricon News (https://www.oricon.co.jp/special/59840/)
      • ALT1: ... that former adult film actress Suzumi Suzuki pivoted to writing literature in 2022 with her novel, Gifted, which became one of five books nominated for the Akutagawa Prize that year? Source: Same as first source
      • Reviewed:
    Created by Phibeatrice (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Phibeatrice (talk) 00:51, 4 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • If anything, the fact that the writer of the novel is a former adult film actress is the interesting part here, not the award (which not all readers may recognize, even if it's prestigious). Suggesting a far simpler hook:
    ALT3 ... that the 2022 novel Gifted was written by a former adult film actress?
    Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:51, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ALT4 ... that former Japanese adult actress Suzumi Suzuki's book Gifted was nominated for the Akutagawa Prize in 2022? Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 20:08, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Mary Mark Ockerbloom: WP:DYKTRIM is the relevant guideline. Oftentimes, but not always, the shortest and simplest hooks are the best. There are times when hooks do need additional context, but generally speaking, we tend to target the widest audience possible with hooks that require the least amount of specialist information. The issue I have with the prize angle is that readers may not know that it is a prestigious award or even be familiar with it, making the angle less accessible. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:22, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Presumably then, they will have an added incentive to click through and find out. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 15:37, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Numerous ALT hooks have been proposed: a reviewer is needed to ensure that they and this article are approved. Z1720 (talk) 15:12, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Details Cannot Body Wants

    (
    )
    Created by Imbluey2 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Imbluey2. Please ping me so that I get notified of your response 06:29, 2 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough

    Policy compliance:

    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
    Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: @Imbluey2: Article is new enough. Hook is interesting. I made a few minor copyedits to the article. The article doesn't actually say anything about how the police were involved, so that should be added. The reader will be looking for the police connection. Also, the copyvio detector is at violation possible 49.5% with one of the sources, so some of the stuff highlighted in red there will need to be revised first. Just one more minor thing, I don't think Singapore needs to be bolded in the hook. I think it looks better as "that Singapore's first R-rated play was performed despite the police finding it "offensive"?" Nice work on the article! ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 21:00, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    The nominator hasn't edited in a few days and didn't respond to the above. Asking if fellow Singaporean DYK regulars Kingoflettuce or ZKang123 can help out. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:38, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on November 1

    [edit]

    Tel al-Sultan attack

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    )
    • Reviewed:
    Improved to Good Article status by Personisinsterest (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Personisinsterest (talk) 12:25, 1 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

  • Smallangryplanet (talk) 09:24, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    • Dune (Kenshi Yonezu song)

    (
    )
    Created by Tokisaki Kurumi (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    ときさき くるみ not because they are easy, but because they are hard 09:19, 1 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Hook is interesting and true,

    I made a small copy edit but beyond that the content is fine, earwig has less then 10% overlap. QPQ not need congrats on your first DYK! Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 21:29, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @OlifanofmrTennant: Thanks! But it seems the DYK template not working well? ときさき くるみ not because they are easy, but because they are hard 18:12, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Tokisaki Kurumi, OlifanofmrTennant, and Crisco 1492: Pulled per WT:DYK on WP:DYKFICTION grounds; as neither ALT0 or ALT2 meet WP:DYKINT (something's going to be slowest and there's no way that it's unusual for a music video to score that many views), new hook needed.--Launchballer 15:19, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Launchballer: Well, I really didn't realize that 1 million wasn't that noteworthy, so how about something similar to "its music video was the fastest original Vocaloid music video to reach a million views on Niconico at the time"? Or something related to the fact that the author has a personal feeling about Niconico, such as "feeling the desert-like atmosphere of Niconico and it's so much different from before, so he composed this song"? (Note these hooks are not polished yet) ときさき くるみ not because they are easy, but because they are hard 19:51, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    I added ALT3 and ALT4 (With the ALT2 mod, I think the BPM is actually an interesting point, since other music tends to have 180BPM to 200BPM then) according to the community reponses. @DYK admins: I'm not familiar with the DYK process, can I trouble one of you to help review it (both content and process)? ときさき くるみ not because they are easy, but because they are hard 18:31, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @Launchballer: for comment. TSventon (talk) 11:58, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The speed hooks rely on knowing what BPM is. The problem with running a hook about the song's subject matter is that he could conceivably have written it about anything, which I would argue goes against the spirit of WP:DYKFICTION.--Launchballer 13:15, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    What about the other hook? ときさき くるみ not because they are easy, but because they are hard 15:32, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    What other hook? I've assessed ALTs 2, 3, and 4.--Launchballer 15:49, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Oops, I thought those texts following were commenting on BPM. ときさき くるみ not because they are easy, but because they are hard 17:28, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Launchballer: I thought about it for a while, and then I did come up with another rather interesting (at least to me) hook again. Please check! ときさき くるみ not because they are easy, but because they are hard 10:17, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Per WP:DYKINT, hooks need to be "likely to be perceived as unusual or intriguing by readers with no special knowledge or interest in the topic". What ALT5 ultimately boils down to is 'guy sings own song', which is uneventful.--Launchballer 15:23, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This needs a new hook.--Launchballer 02:28, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on November 2

    [edit]

    Naz Arıcı

    (
    )

    * ... that several-times international champion adult figure skater Naz Arıcı started ice skating from scratch at the age of 29?

    • Source: "İkiz gibi büyüdüğü arkadaşı ölünce kararını verdi! 29 yaşında başladı, 5 kez şampiyon oldu", "29 yaşında sıfırdan başladığı buz pateninde 32 yaşında yetişkinler artistik buz pateni dünya şampiyonu oldu." [10]
    • ALT1: ... that electrical/electronics engineer Naz Arıcı quit her profession at the age of 34 to devote herself to competitions of adult figure skating she started when she was 29? Source: "... Naz Arıcı,“İlk şampiyonluğumdan sonra 2016 da katılacağım yarışma için işimi bıraktım ..." [11]", "29 yaşında sıfırdan başladığı buz pateninde 32 yaşında yetişkinler artistik buz pateni dünya şampiyonu oldu." [12]
    • ALT2: ... that Naz Arıcı paved the way to the establishment of the adult figure skating branch in Turkey in 2016? Source: " Yetişkinler dalını 2015 yılında dünyada aldığı ilk şampiyonlukla (15 ülkeden 38 kişinin katıldığı Naz’ın ilk yarışması) Türkiye’ye getirdi ve 2016 yılında ülkemize yeni bir dalın açılmasını sağladı." [13]
    • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Arthur France
    Created by CeeGee (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 223 past nominations.

    CeeGee 11:43, 7 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough

    Policy compliance:

    Hook eligibility:

    • Cited: Yes - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith
    • Interesting: Yes
    • Other problems: No - n
    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: I was excited to see this bio at DYK, since I work on figure skating articles, too, and I value creating and improving fs articles, especially ones about women skaters. Such a beautiful story about adult figure skating in Turkey. However and unfortunately, I don't think that this bio is ready for the main page. The bio uses, for example, overly promotional and puffery language, such as most of the third paragraph in the "Early life" section. Much of the prose also suffers from awkward wording in English as well. The hooks for this DYK suffers from similar issues; all hooks are worded awkwardly. It's awkward in English, for example, to state that one starts something from scratch. Rather, it should read something like this: ALT3:... that several-times international champion adult figure skater Naz Arıcı, with no previous experience, first learned how to figure skate the age of 29? Since I don't know Turkish and depend entirely on Google Translate, I'm AGF that the sources are accurately cited and worded and that there's no plagiarism. I think that if you worked on the article's prose, improving the hooks would be an easy fix. Please understand that I'm not being disrespectful, but I'm coming from a place of valuing the sport of figure skating on WP. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 04:18, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    ALT3: ... that several-times international champion adult figure skater Naz Arıcı, with no previous experience, first learned how to figure skate at the age of 29?

    Eastern Venus

    (
    )
    Eastern Venus at Kobe
    Eastern Venus at Kobe
    • ... that on the ship Eastern Venus (pictured), the "Modern" suite is not in modern style?
    "The largest cabins onboard Pacific Venus are 4 Royal Suites (65 m2) located behind the bridge, named "Archaic" (1001), "Modern" (1002), "Elegant" (1003), "Noble" (1004). They are decorated in two styles, with "Modern" and "Archaic" in traditional Japanese style, "Noble" and "Elegant" being more contemporary."
      • Reviewed:
    Created by Memer15151 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    UserMemer (chat) Tribs 21:03, 3 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    I have removed the aforementioned self-published sources and found better citations; all unsupported claims were removed. In addition, I removed "Castles of the Seas" as it is obviously self-published too. UserMemer (chat) Tribs 22:29, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Kingoflettuce: Please address the above.--Launchballer 02:47, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Apologies for the late response! It looks better, although a lot of the material still hinges on primary sources like VesselFinder. Apart from Cruise Industry News, do we have more reliable "third-party" coverage? At the same time, I'm not sure how picky one ought to be with cruise-related articles, so I think I could pass this if there really isn't anything else. Best, KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 10:09, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on November 4

    [edit]

    Peanut (squirrel)

    (
    )
    Created by Thriley (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 256 past nominations.

    Launchballer 22:08, 4 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    ALT1... that the death of a squirrel named Peanut was a Republican rallying cry in the last days before the 2024 United States presidential election? Source: Washington Post Thriley (talk) 20:15, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Grammar! "a" squirrel Johnbod (talk) 21:22, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    ALT2... that Peanut the squirrel was taken from his home by New York State and euthanized soon after? Johnbod (talk) 21:22, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough
    Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: Oh, that squirrel... I followed this when it was at ITN and in the pre-election hullaballoo. Article is new enough and long enough. Hook facts are all cited and interesting, though my preference is for ALT0. Earwig flags a fair bit, but they seem to be properly attributed quotes. Good to go.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:54, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    • I'd appreciate it if the alt1 hook runs. Far more consequential than making money for the owner. It was the hook I was going to use as the article creator before this drive by nomination was made. Thriley (talk) 21:41, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Maybe it's me being tired of American politics, but going with a politics-related angle feels cheap at this point. It's like all those previous hooks about COVID: just because a hook is about COVID or US politics does not automatically make it interesting, especially when there's oversaturation both on and off-Wikipedia. Endorsing ALT0 instead as more likely to get readership interest, especially to those not interested in politics. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:20, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Due to concerns raised at WT:DYK, the nomination has been pulled for now. Consensus is leaning against ALT1 (the promoted hook); however, a concern has been raised that ALT0 (the hook consensus was leaning in favor of) may not be accurate or supported, and thus may need revision. The discussion did not discuss ALT2. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:09, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    My bad, I changed the Express Tribune and New York Post with the Telegraph and misread it. The sentence now ends with just the Express Tribune. Should be supported now.--Launchballer 23:18, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think ignoring a citation to an in-depth article from a reliable source and instead using a four paragraph summary of a NYPost article from a random Pakistani newspaper which doesn't actually reflect the source just for the sake of a DYK hook is what editors should be doing. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:22, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I skimmed WP:RSN for "Express Tribune" and saw nothing of concern nor any indication in the article it came from the New York Post, but I've put the Telegraph back. Hmm, "helped steer viewers to its owner's OnlyFans account", cited to Vanity Fair...--Launchballer 16:22, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Apologies, I've been out of it the last few days. ALT3: ... that a squirrel helped steer viewers to its owner's OnlyFans account?--Launchballer 15:33, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Clifton House School, Harold Styan

    ( Comment or view )
    ( Article history links:
    )
    Created by Storye book (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 110 past nominations.

    Storye book (talk) 11:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • I'm not yet sure if I will give this a full review, so I'll just leave this as a comment for now. Although the angle provided meets DYKINT, I have reservations if it meets the guidelines. For one, both hooks may need a trimming (it might be better to focus on the "two attackers were knocked out" angle alone without mentioning the gymnast or music hall clauses). More importantly, I'm not sure if the hooks as currently written meet WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE, specifically the part about avoiding writing hooks where the bolded article is only tangentially related to the main hook fact (the hooks seem to be more about Styan than the school itself). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:26, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • ALT0 is 155 characters. According to the link you provided about trimming, it is ideal length.
    • ALT1 is 180 characters. Being 180 characters is not a trimming issue by itself.
    • Styan was a big part of that school, as can be seen in the article. There is plenty of material about him in the article, because he was a big presence there. If our readers click on the bold link, they will read more about Styan there than anywhere else online. Therefore he is relevant to the hook.
    • Meanwhile I'll go and find an extra hook or two, anyway. Storye book (talk) 10:04, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • ALT2: ... Clifton House School formed a scout pack which received an award from Lord Baden Powell for "best pack the United Kingdom"? Source: Neesam, Malcolm (26 February 1999). "Lord Baden Powell on the Stray". Harrogate Advertiser and Weekly List of the Visitors. p. 7 col.4. Retrieved 30 October 2024 – via British Newspaper Archive. "Lord Baden Powell was in Harrogate for the special purpose of presenting Peter's Pole to the Clifton House School Pack, which had won the award of best pack in the United Kingdom, an exceptional commendation".
    • ALT0a: ... that sports teacher Harold Styan of Clifton House School played the music halls when young, and knocked out two attackers in his old age? Source as above
    • ALT0b: ... that Clifton House School's sports teacher Harold Styan played the music halls when young, and knocked out two attackers in his old age? Source as above Storye book (talk) 11:12, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    One issue is that, while not an official rule or guidelines, it is usually discouraged to mention people without articles by name in hooks. I'm not sure how strict that practice is, but it's been brought up many times in the past. In any case, it might be necessary to remove Styan's name from the hooks. As for the trimming part, the wording I had was something like "... that a Clifton House School sports teacher knocked out two attackers in his old age?", which is more straightforward. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:19, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think your suggestion is appropriate, because this was an expensive private school, and Styan had the Order of the British Empire for his youth work. In other words, he was a hero and teacher, not a gangster. The hooks that I gave suggest that he was a complicated and interesting character, but your hook suggests that he might be just some kind of felon or that he ultimately developed dementia. If there is no specific rule against using his name, then I don't see why we should remove it. However I shall look at that section of the article and see whether there is enough there to make Styan into a separate article, then the hooks will have his name in lights, and this nom will be a double nom. Storye book (talk) 16:52, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Update. I am separating the two articles, but it will take a day or two. Thank you for your patience. Please note that the Harold Styan link is currently a redirect to Clifton House School. I shall correct that when I publish his article. Storye book (talk) 18:03, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's not a rule that's formally codified and thus not in the guidelines, but I remember it being discouraged before. I think Theleekycauldron might know about it. In any case, if the hook becomes a double nom then that particular issue becomes moot. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    see WP:DYKG#C1 theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 23:13, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am not sure what you are referring to, Leeky, but the redirect is temporary on this page as explained above, and not intended for publication on the Main Page. I have nearly finished Styan's own page, and hope to publish today or tomorrow (when the redirect will resolve to a direct link). Thank you for your patience. Storye book (talk) 12:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Sounds good to me! :) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:36, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Pro-Fatimid conspiracy against Saladin

    (
    )
    • Source: summary of the entire article
    Improved to Good Article status by Cplakidas (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 145 past nominations.

    Constantine ✍ 19:27, 4 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    @Cplakidas: Please address the above.--Launchballer 01:27, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Launchballer and Aafi: what am I supposed to address? If there is any specific criticism or suggestion for improvement, I'll gladly consider it, but 'can be made better' or 'not appealing enough' is little to go on. The fact that Muslims would make common cause with the Crusaders, or with a sect known as 'Assassins' of all things, is IMO plenty interesting, especially compared to many other hooks I have encountered in DYK in the past. Constantine ✍ 17:18, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    as I said in my comment (not a review) but I do agree that the latter part "are said to have made common cause with the Crusaders and the Assassins?" is pretty much interesting. The initial part didn't appeal to me and I dropped a comment. Up to you or a reviewer, to work on this. This wasn't a serious review but a simple suggestions that this could be worked upon. Regards, Aafi (talk) 17:34, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks Aafi for clarifying. How about ALT1 ... that the members of an abortive conspiracy to restore the Fatimid Caliphate are said to have asked the Order of Assassins for assistance in eliminating Saladin? Constantine ✍ 10:49, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on November 5

    [edit]

    Oasis (Minecraft clone)

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    Created by Johnson524 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Loytra (talk) 13:36, 7 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Comment The disambiguation is incorrect - if this is considered a video game, then per WP:NCVGDAB it should be (2024 video game) instead (since there is already a 2005 video game of the same name). That said, I am not sure I would consider it a video game, given that it does not work according to anything but dream logic, and is more of a vague approximation of a game. Therefore, (simulation) or (AI simulation) could be a better disambiguation. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 11:30, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • If it's not clear exactly what Oasis is, then why would the disambiguation be considered incorrect? The software is most notable for being a clone of Minecraft, surely that should be mentioned in the title for clarity sake? Hell, half the time it's referred to as "AI Minecraft" rather than its actual name. Loytra (talk) 01:43, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        • It is incorrect because "Minecraft clone" is overly specific and therefore goes against disambiguation guidelines. It is like using (black dog with long fur and floppy ears) instead of (dog). It must be made more broad, whether by calling it "video game" or "simulation". Furthermore, calling it a "clone" may in fact be incorrect. It is literally Minecraft, as played by interpreting the game through an AI, whereas "clone" is typically used to describe games that are similar to, but not identical to another. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:42, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
          • Most of the sources referenced in the article describe it as a "version of Minecraft" or simply "AI-generated Minecraft". It really isn't commonly referred to as "Oasis"; I don't think most people would recognise the software if it was under the title "Oasis (2024 video game)" or "Oasis (simulation)". Imo it has to have "Minecraft" in the title. I know naming conventions are pretty strict but I'd almost argue that this is an WP:IAR situation. Loytra (talk) 11:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
            • I can confidently say it's not an IAR situation. After looking at the sources more, I am convinced that (AI model) is the best DAB for this as it is first and foremost a model that can be "played" using a game interface. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:43, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment. I don't think arguing over the title should block this from DYK. Only truly egregiously wrong titles would cause that kind of problem, and the current title is clearly not that bad - as noted, the COMMONNAME is something like "AI Minecraft". (And I don't think the case is as open-and-shut as Zxc thinks it is, either.) Zxc, you should file a WP:RM and see what the community thinks IMO. SnowFire (talk) 19:21, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • I agree. Its now time to keep discussion in this template related to DYK reviews and any discussion about the name of this article, should take place via an RM and any discussion about improving this article should take place at the relevant talk page. Article titles are outside the scope of a DYK review. side note: sounds like I'm a forum moderator at this point JuniperChill (talk) 16:19, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    A reviewer is needed for this nomination. Z1720 (talk) 15:16, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough

    Policy compliance:

    • Adequate sourcing: No - Forbes Sites is not a reliable source per past consensus; Decrypt Media seems a bit borderline, but regardless of reliability the link needs to not be directly to the CEO's article. Backdash seems to be a how-to website, so also in need of replacement. 80 Level seems to be a clickbait outlet for a jobs hiring platform.
    • Neutral: Yes
    • Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: Unknown
    • Other problems: No - See above on sourcing.

    Hook eligibility:

    • Cited: No - Forbes Sites cannot be used for the citation. ALT2 (sourced to BoingBoing) is acceptable.
    • Interesting: Yes
    QPQ: None required.

    Overall: Sourcing needs serious work. Once resolved, ALT2 should be good to go. SounderBruce 02:35, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    You pinged me on my talk page @SounderBruce: but this is not my nomination, I just created the article. I can take over the nomination if you'd like @Loytra: but that'd be up to you. Johnson524 03:44, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Apologies, I didn't notice the separate byline here. SounderBruce 03:45, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @SounderBruce: Since the concerns were sourcing based and not hook based, I figured it'd be fine do finish them. Good catch on Forbes, it has been removed from the article. As an added bonus, while finding alternative sourcing for Forbes in the article, I stumbled across a few instances of copyediting-gone-wrong, where the correct sources citing some sentences were accidently removed and replaced with the wrong citation. Those instances have been corrected as well! The Decrypt Media link has been fixed, and some of the wording on the about page for 80 Level did seem pretty concerning, hinting at little editorial oversight, and has likewise been removed. I am a little hesitant to remove the Backdash source though, as it appears to be a website dedicated publishing gaming articles, does not claim to be a blog, and has credited authors. I really don't see what the issue is. Do you think this DYK can pass now? Cheers! Johnson524 04:46, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh, I was asking if there's been clarity regarding what the article's title should be. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:40, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Narutolovehinata5: Oh sorry for the late reply, I completely forgot to respond earlier 😅 Since nobody has raised concerns over the article's title recently, I believe the current title is suitable, also because while they are officially unrelated, the common name for Oasis by most sources covering it refer to it as 'AI Minecraft', 'Minecraft clone', or something along those lines. Because of this, I believe 'Minecraft' should stay in the title in some capacity, but please let me what you think! Also, @SounderBruce: the Maginative source has been removed, an editor other than myself added that recently. Can this nomination be passed now? Cheers! Johnson524 18:51, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Backdash is still a potentially unreliable source and I do think it needs to be replaced. SounderBruce 02:46, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Gohobi

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    Created by Narutolovehinata5 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 109 past nominations.

    Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:26, 5 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • @Narutolovehinata5:, Thanks for the article. This is a suggestion: could you expand the article slightly to give some idea of what it means to have a "tofu mentality"? For those of us who won't be able to read the original sources if we click through, the current Wikipedia article gives no explanation of the hook. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 20:26, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    For what it's worth, the sources regarding the band only use "tofu mentality" without further elaboration (other than it was a term they gave to themselves), so I can't really add more to the article without doing original research. Technically, in Japanese, the term "tofu mentality" means something similar to what English speakers would call a "snowflake", although the article uses a literal translation of "豆腐メンタル" rather than the translated version (which is probably still accurate since the literal meaning is correct in Japanese). The full explanation about what the term means would probably not work for the band's article since it would delve into original research or even WP:COAT, but that's the explanation for context. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:06, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    jp:豆腐メンタル maps to Snowflake (slang), so maybe a piped link to Snowflake (slang) in the hook would suffice?
    have created redirect for tofu mentality, and updating hook below -Bogger (talk) 15:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ALT0A... that the Japanese band Gohobi describes themselves as having a tofu mentality? (same source) -Bogger (talk) 14:43, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I actually think the link would distract from the main article and divert clicks, so linking in the hook might not be a good idea. Should be fine for the article, though. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:00, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    "tofu mentality" ..? -Bogger (talk) 09:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I mentioned in the original nomination comment that I'd leave it to the reviewer if "tofu mentality" should have quotes or not since I wasn't sure if they were necessary. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:44, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on November 7

    [edit]

    Organization of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

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    Moved to mainspace by John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 43 past nominations.

    John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (talk) 00:07, 8 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    @John P. Sadowski (NIOSH): Pinging for a response. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:54, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Bunt sind schon die Wälder

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    J. F. Reichardt
    J. F. Reichardt
    Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 2124 past nominations.

    Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:16, 7 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]


    General: Article is new enough and long enough
    Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
    Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: Thank you for this interesting article. I would like to hear this one. A few comments:

    • Earwig finds only quotations and proper names. No problem there.
    • The hook citation (above) for ALT0 was not in the article, so I added it there. I also gave the article a very minor copyedit. That does not affect this DYK review.
    • One issue: The citation given above for ALT0 does not confirm popularity. Popularity is mentioned in the name of the website, but not in the main text of the website. Also, the website name says (if I understand correctly) "popular and traditional lieder", so according to that, this piece could be in traditional style (which does not imply popularity). So I think we need to EITHER find another citation OR another hook. Storye book (talk) 11:27, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Storye book: Not really a fan of the proposed hook, since the context given does not seem to make it clear why it is important that it has remained popular, and the context of it remaining popular is not clear (what is intended by "remained popular"?). I was going to suggest a hook involving Schubert, but the meaning of "different setting" is not clear: does it mean he wrote another melody to the song, or that Reichardt's melody was later re-used by Schubert? If it's the latter then perhaps that could work as a hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:39, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The wording I had in mind was something like "... that the melody of "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" (Colourful are the forests already) by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured) was later used by Franz Schubert?", but I'm not sure if that was the intended context of the "Schubert wrote a different setting" part. That suggestion could probably still be worked on, I just threw it out here for brainstorming purposes. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:42, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you - both - for thinking. I am open to rewording. Grammar: in German, "und" says that something is both, both traditional and popular", - if it was only one, German would use "oder". As you will have seen, there were multiple melodies, before and after, but this is the one in most publications, recorded, sung. Take Hannes Wader, a singer-songwriter himself: singing that old melody. (yt at the bottom) - Schubert wrote a different setting (= different melody + different piano), which didn't become popular, - note that only one of the uses mentioned has his version, - it remained for art singers and higher school education. What word would you choose instead of "popular" for: is the one that people know and sing? Schubert is really only a side note here, his setting didn't get popular in any sense, it's not Erlkönig. I didn't know he wrote a melody, but now he wrote 700 (as DYK once informed us). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:35, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Would it help to add that it was recorded among the "80 most popular Volkslieder" [25]. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:39, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The new reference given by Gerda Arendt is satisfactory, and it explains the meaning of popularity in the article's context. Gerda, could you please give us an ALT1, and put the new sentence and citation in the article? Thank you. Storye book (talk) 08:16, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Storye bookYou mean a sentence about that collection? (In another nom, someone mentioned "promotional". Anyway, ref added, which supports "remained popular. Will search for more. As a little gift: a children's tv version ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:30, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I added two more indications of popularity, a 2011 poll and a 2017 collection. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:11, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ALT0a: ... that the Volkslied "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" (Colourful are the forests already) has remained popular with the 1799 melody by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured)?
    to avoid the impression that only the melody remained popular. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:14, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you, Gerda. The citation is now in the article, and I approve ALT0a, with image. Storye book (talk) 09:40, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Pulling this per this discussion. Jlwoodwa raised concerns that the hook was hard to understand. In addition, the hook at best probably borderline meets WP:DYKINT. Some possible alternative suggestions:
    Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:48, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    for ALT 1 or 1a, subject to Gerda Arendt's approval. Storye book (talk) 09:47, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am sorry that I wrote so misleading. Not true. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:58, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Gerda Arendt: As far as I can see, you have not written anything misleading or untrue. Please explain? Thanks.
    Regarding the word, "popular", in the discussion someone appeared confused by the word, presumably because they lived in a world so narrow that they did not know that "popular music" is a subsidiary meaning of "popular", which has for hundreds of years just meant that a lot of people liked something. Storye book (talk) 10:19, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The poll had 20 suggestions without Herbstlied. IT was No. 2 of the additional ones. - Please word for me. A song with a 1799 tune is still popular. The song hast a longish title in German, which I thought was good to translate. The title could mean anything, so we have to say what it is if you ask me. As you will not have noticed the hook is a bit quirky because with a composed melody it's not what you'd expect a Volkslied to be. Why would we not credit the composer who won over Schubert in popularity? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ALT2 ... that the folk-style melody for "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" was composed long ago by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured) and it is still liked by many?
    ALT1b .... that radio listeners voted "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" second in their suggested list of the most beautiful German folk songs? (See Gerda's comment above, regarding this one). Storye book (talk) 11:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Third party required to approve ALT2 and/or ALT1b only. Storye book (talk) 11:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think ALT1b would get us into trouble with ERRORS because it's more No. 22, and tough to explain with the 20 from the station. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:33, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    I really don't think ALT2 as currently written is going to work out. It's rather vague and basically says "did you know that this song written long ago is still popular?", which actually isn't all that uncommon. It would be like a hook saying "that the folk song "Yankee Doodle" from the 1700s remains popular?" I still think something about the poll would be the best option here, although if that really can't work out then either a completely different angle be suggested here, or the nomination be rejected for lack of a hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:23, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    And I really don't think that slamming down the hopes of a nomination which bores you (and bores you alone, so far) is a constructive way to contribute. If this subject matter bores you, go and contribute to a nomination about your own favourite music, sport or whatever, and leave us to work productively on this one. Thank you.
    Controversy about which tune is the "right" one for a favourite set of verses can be a powerful force, and can cause concerts to be spoiled or cancelled. For example, in the UK (and possibly Europe, I don't know), a favoured tune for Psalm 23 is Crimond. There are many competing tunes for it, including Brother James' Air, which allows more fancy choral settings. However, when some people (including me) hear that tune used instead of Crimond, they become very angry. There is nothing wrong with Brother James' Air, but Crimond is loved for sentimental reasons. I can assure you that the subject matter of ALT 2 is far from boring. Storye book (talk) 10:17, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ALT3 ... that the melody for "Bunt sind schon die Wälder", composed by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured), is still preferred by many, even though the famous Franz Schubert wrote a tune for it? (176 characters)
    Third party approval still required for ALT2 and/or ALT3. Storye book (talk) 10:17, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We could go with some variation of ALT3 (we probably need to reject ALT2 however due to WP:DYKINT reasons). However, the issue with ALT3 is that it is not directly stated in the article or the source (there is nothing in the article that directly says that people prefer Recihardt's version, just that it exists and is popular while one by Schubert exists). If that could be addressed, ALT3 would be a suitable option.
    As for the "bores me" aspect, for what it's worth, Gerda's nominations and hooks have long had a reputation among several DYK regulars (not just me) for failing to meet the interestingness criterion, so it's not just me who has raised concerns. Other editors such as 4meter4 and CurryTime7-24 (incidentally both also classical music experts) have also raised concerns about her nominations and hooks in the past. While one could argue that DYKINT is by its nature a subjective criterion, the fact that Gerda's reputation exists, along with how the current wording of DYKINT was a direct response to one of her nominations, can't be discounted. For what it's worth, I have no issue with classical music as a topic itself and there have been plenty of acceptable hooks about the field from Gerda and other editors like 4meter4 and CurryTime among others. The issue has usually been the hooks themselves, not the field. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:10, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Gerda Arendt: Are there any citations available, to support ALT3? Or is there any content in the existing citations, which could be added to the article in support of ALT3? Storye book (talk) 13:18, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Narutolovehinata5: Broadly speaking, classical music is that European vocal and orchestral music composed mostly in the 17th and 18th centuries, the name being reflective of that era's interest in the classical arts, such as Palladian architecture. Classical music tends to be emotionally controlled, with certain formal rules. Then you get transitional composers such as Beethoven who take the mickey out of classical music and play with more emotional stuff. Full-blown 19th-century orchestral music, and music for trained singers at that time in Europe, is called Romantic music, partly because it breaks with the previous century's emotional control. So we are not dealing here on this nom with classical music. It is music from the Romantic era. The confusion arises from today's usage of the word, "classical", where it has come to mean "not pop music". That is to say, when used in that way, the word has little real meaning. Storye book (talk) 13:35, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    (ec) Packing for return trip. Will be about a day. Hate editing mobile. - Sorry, Schubert takes us too far away. The 2 melodies don't compare. Schubert's is an art song, with no chance to become popular. The composer of such a successful thing deserves mentioning by name, imho. - After edit conflict: indeed, Not classical, but POPULAR. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:43, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Gerda Arendt, Storye book, and Narutolovehinata5: What is the status of this nomination?--Launchballer 02:31, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It could use a reviewer who sees that it is noteworthy that this particular old song is still popular (while most others from the time arens't) and that it is due to a specific person's melody. Or first a person to word a better hook for that fact? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:16, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ps: the concerns were archived: Wikipedia talk:Did you know/Archive 203#Bunt sind schon die Wälder (nom). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:23, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Would rather recuse from commenting on this nomination further; however, I've struck ALT2 due to the vagueness I mentioned above. My final comment is that my concern about ALT3 being unsupported remains unresolved. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:17, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Launchballer: As I understand it, the review of the article itself has been completed as a green tick, and has not been challenged. However the hooks are still under discussion. We need a third party reviewer to review the remaining hooks (as I write, ALT3 is the only remaining hook, although the struck hooks could be unstruck if considered interesting). Also, those who contributed to the article need to check that ALT3 is properly supported by citations in the article, then tell us whether we should keep, rewrite or strike ALT3. Storye book (talk) 10:10, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I can't see where ALT3 is in the article. Also, where is your reference for the sentence beginning "The first"?--Launchballer 15:30, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I have reworded the sentence beginning "The first", and provided a citation.
    ALT4 ... that the melody for the song "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" (Colourful are the forests already) that Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured) created is the one commonly used today? Storye book (talk) 09:55, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on November 8

    [edit]

    Death of Milton King

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    • Source: Source 1: Cobley, Alan Gregor (June 1992). "'Far from home': the origins and significance of the Afro‐Caribbean community in South Africa to 1930". Journal of Southern African Studies. 18 (2): 349–370. doi:10.1080/03057079208708318. Source 2: "West Indies Boycott South African Goods". Rand Daily Mail. Johannesburg, South Africa. October 10, 1951. p. 4.
    Improved to Good Article status by SunTunnels (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    SunTunnels (talk) 01:49, 15 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Canaanite ivory comb

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    • ... that the Canaanite ivory comb that contains the earliest sentence in a phonetic alphabet was categorized as a miscellaneous artifact for five years before gaining significance as an important discovery?
    • Reviewed:
    • Comment: An image would be excellent for this entry. The images are there in the internet but I have been unable to find a suitable one that can be uploaded to commons with proper licensing. Please help me find/upload a picture for this artifact.
    Created by Raydann (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    ❯❯❯ Raydann(Talk) 20:21, 9 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Comment: So, between 2004 and 2010 or so, I did a lot of reading about artifacts like this. It turns out that it is extremely common for items like this to be set aside for years, decades, perhaps even a century or more, before someone comes along and decides to give them a second look. I only bring this up because while I like your hook, I could see others objecting to it as mundane. Viriditas (talk) 23:35, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    While I get the point of the hook, it's a bit hard to read. Maybe something along the lines of:
    ALT1 ... that the Canaanite ivory comb contains the earliest-known sentence in a phonetic alphabet?
    ALT2 ... that the Canaanite ivory comb was categorized as a miscellaneous artifact for five years before gaining significance as an important discovery?
    Basically, splitting the original hook into two separate hooks. ALT2 lacks context, but arguably it might encourage a reader to click and learn why it was an important discovery. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:25, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

     Reviewing... Flibirigit (talk) 03:08, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough

    Policy compliance:

    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
    QPQ: None required.

    Overall: The article was created on November 8, and nominated the next day for DYK. The length is adequate and the article is neutral in tone. Sourcing needs a bit of work. Please see where citation needed tags were added. I found no plagiarism concerns despite that Earwig highlights directly attributed quotes and titles of works. I have struck ALT0 and ALT2 since it is common for the importance of many artifacts to be known much later on. ALT1 is an interesting hook to a broad audience, mentioned in the article, and verified by the source. I remain open to considered other hooks proposed. There is no image used in this nomination, and the image in the article is freely licensed on the Commons. The QPQ is not required for this nomination. Flibirigit (talk) 03:27, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Jim Rivaldo

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    • Source: [26] Politics was as much a passion as a job for Jim Rivaldo, a veteran San Francisco political consultant who worked campaigns for candidates ranging from Harvey Milk and Ella Hill Hutch to Supervisor Bevin Dufty and District Attorney Kamala Harris.
    Moved to mainspace by Vigilantcosmicpenguin (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 20 past nominations.

    — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 00:48, 9 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • The article is a new creation, and is long enough and adequately source. I did not find any close paraphrasing. However, the provided QPQ is an incomplete review as it was a quickfail that only checked some of the DYK criteria. A full QPQ has to be provided for the nomination to proceed: due to the new rules regarding immediate QPQs, it would be ideal for a full review to be done promptly to replace the provided QPQ.
    Among the two hooks, the second hook seems more interesting, especially for non-politics buffs. It is cited inline and verified. However, I do have some reservations regarding the hook, particularly if it might be considered offensive to LGBT readers and editors if the hook as currently written runs. I'm unsure if the hook as currently written is fine, or if will need to be reworded, but for now, my preference would be to go with some variation of it. In addition, other hook suggestions can also be proposed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:12, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Narutolovehinata5:I have done a new QPQ: Template:Did you know nominations/Artificial intelligence rhetoric
    I had the same concerns as you regarding my hook suggestions, so I will defer to the opinion of the promoter.— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 20:44, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I also forgot to mention this in the review, but for DYK purposes, the footnote supporting the quote (the hairdresser one) needs to be repeated immediately after the quote, rather than just after the paragraph. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:35, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Done. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 19:41, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you. To be on the safe side, I would suggest trying alternative wordings for ALT1 that could help make the context of the hook clearer and thus help avoid possible concerns about being offensive (maybe Theleekycauldron can help?), or maybe try additional angles different from the hairdresser one. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:59, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on November 9

    [edit]

    The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness (Talmud)

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    • Source: current footnote 12: Berger, Zackary; Cahan, Rabbi Joshua (2016). "Patient Autonomy in Talmudic Context: The Patient's "I Must Eat" on Yom Kippur in the Light of Contemporary Bioethics". Journal of Religion and Health. 55 (5): 1778–1785: "Here, we analyze a discussion in the Mishna, a foundational text of rabbinic Judaism, regarding patient autonomy in the setting of religiously mandated fasting, and commentaries in the Babylonian and Palestinian Talmuds, finding both a more expansive notion of such autonomy and a potential metaphysical grounding for it in the importance of patient self-knowledge."
    • ALT1: ... that a Talmudic passage, "The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness", has been used to justify a rabbinic law project by and for transgender Jews? Source: current fn #5: Soloman, Laynie; Pearce, Russell G. (2022). "'Nothing about Us without Us': Toward a Liberatory Heterodox Halakha". Touro L. Rev. 37: 1769–1836 – via HeinOnline: ""The heart alone knows its bitterness" is not simply a mantra about the essential power of individuals to dictate their medical needs when confronted with a disputing party. This statement, as we have seen, becomes an interpretive principle that we can utilize to articulate a truth at the center of a vision of a liberatory Heterodox halakha that attempts to center the needs, realities, experiences, and expertise of the community from which it emerges. (1830)... The approaches to Heterodox halakhathat we have described thus far are the ideologies that ground the Trans Halakha Project, a recent initiative that "aims to curate existing resources that have been developed for trans Jews and by trans Jews..." (1832)
    • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Elin Falk
    • Comment: I'm very sorry, I lost track of the timing (because I put wrong creation date on my user page)! It's a few days over. But the hooks are short and clearly sourced, so hopefully easy to review.
    Created by ProfGray (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 7 past nominations.

    ProfGray (talk) 14:10, 19 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Comment: That's fine, User:ProfGray, but please make a note to avoid this again. This is at least the second time you've missed the cutoff date and if you make it a habit, some editors are likely to decline in the future. I will compose a review. Viriditas (talk) 23:17, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • The lead hardly summarizes the body.
    • No quotes for "The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness" as the title?
    • You alternate between the uppercase title "The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness" and the lowercase phrasing of "the heart knows its own bitterness" of the sugya and the proverb it refers to. That's three different references, and it must be really confusing for our readers. You probably need a dab header pointing to the Proverb as well. Figure out a way to make it clear that you are differentiating between the 1) principle 2) the sugya, and the 3) proverb.
    • It is because the verse states: "The heart knows the bitterness of its soul" (Proverbs 14:10) Please link to Proverbs 14
    • In a 2022 law review article, Laynie Soloman and Russell G. Pearce deploy The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness as one of two No quotes for "The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness" here?
    • While applying The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness for a Jewish ethics by a those outside the mainstream No quotes here?
    • Citation 2: ""The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness". You've got two quotes in front of the title. This can be solved by using a single quote in the title field.
    • gemara. You're using a different convention for Gemara than Wikipedia. Here, it is uppercase with no italics. You're doing the same for other words like Yoma, etc. Note: I see you are doing this for a specific reason, but that it isn't evident to most people, so perhaps add a footnote explaining the usage differences.
    • Hence it is discussed in the 313rd mitzvah Per WP:EL, don't use an external link in the body of the article. Add the footnote.
    • Jewish Medical Ethics. Add the pub date so we know the year like this: Jewish Medical Ethics (1959). I believe it is 1959, but you should verify.
    • I added the link to the source in the hook. Please also add it to the article.
    • Along these lines, Libson mentions the case of a rabbi (a Tosafist, Isaac ben Asher) who fasted to death in the medieval period, earning some recognition for piety as well as push back on the rabbinic acceptance of such conduct There's a great opportunity to add some interdenominational cross-referencing if the sources support it. Fasting to death was a thing in Asian Buddhism and was practiced to achieve self-mummification. Apparently, these bodies of monks who fasted to death are still in public view (China, Japan, Korea).
    • Yes if a person says they need food, their view outweighs even 100 doctors who say they should fast. That's not encyclopedic style. Please rewrite that passage.
    More in a bit. Viriditas (talk) 23:17, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for the detailed comments. And I'm sorry about the timing, not my strong suit, I'll try not to err again. I've made most of your suggested changes. (I know about Sallekhana but might seem like OR for me to refer to it, and the rabbinic case is more an exception than a comparable practice.) I see the inconsistency: should The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness generally be in title case with or without quotation marks? I revised the lead a bit but I think it covers much of the ground of the article, what do you sense should be added? ProfGray (talk) 18:17, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    General: Article is new enough and long enough

    Policy compliance:

    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: Exemption per WP:DYKNEW. Article is long enough; no problems found by Earwig except quotes. Hooks seem fine and sourced. My primary issue is with the article itself. Even though there are no maintenance tags, I think it indirectly fails WP:DYKCOMPLETE due to is tendency towards obscurantism from the style of writing, which I believe impacts the overall presentation. I realize this is not done on purpose. I recommend a complete rewrite. The current version lacks clarity and focus and is technical and dense. This problem could easily be remedied by removing all the quoted passages and reducing the topic to its bare simplicity for the general reader. Then, slowly add back in more advanced concepts and quotes as needed. I realize my review will be controversial, so after writing this, I will immediately request a second opinion. Viriditas (talk) 01:18, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Well, I've never been asked to do a complete rewrite before. It is true that the articles on the Talmud are going to get into some special terms, which have hyperlinks, and content (e.g., literary sources and legal issues). Perhaps you could mark which quotations should be removed and presumably paraphrased instead? Which paragraphs are too dense and require more clarity or clarification? Not sure that 'obscurantism' is a helpful feedback term, but I do appreciate your willingness to help me improve this. ProfGray (talk) 18:26, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    In terms of DYKCOMPLETE, I wonder if folks would glance at my other currently nominated articles on Talmudic topics, to check for similar concerns. Moses sees Rabbi Akiva (Menachot 29b), Sugya, Hefker. ProfGray (talk) 18:34, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I did that, and your other article on the list of older hooks needing to be reviewed didn’t appear so bad. For me, the issue here is, what if you pretend for a moment that you aren’t who you are, you’re someone who doesn’t know this subject and has no familiarity with it. Now read what you wrote with that pretend state of mind. It’s difficult to make sense of it. Like I said, work towards simplicity for the general reader and you should be fine. The easiest and simplest way to do this is to add all of the text, except for the quotes, to a sandbox page, and rewrite it. Once you've achieved a reasonable outline and structure that anyone can follow and understand, begin adding in your selected quotes if necessary. That should solve the entire problem. I will bow out of this and ask others to take over. Perhaps you will find someone who is sympathetic and will pass it. But I read it three times with the idea that I was new and a beginner and as someone who has never come across the subject before, and I couldn’t get very far. Try it yourself. Remember, we aren’t just writing for ourselves but a general audience. You’re not alone in this struggle, it’s something I keep running into in my own writing and I’m always having to make changes because I sometimes forget that I’m not the intended recipient. Viriditas (talk) 18:49, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on November 10

    [edit]

    Jill, Duchess of Hamilton

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    Source: [28]
    Created by Surtsicna (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 186 past nominations.

    Surtsicna (talk) 21:12, 13 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough

    Policy compliance:

    • Adequate sourcing: Yes
    • Neutral: No - I think consistently referring to Robertson as "the duchess", both in the title and throughout the article, despite her dislike for the title and her specific request for it to be removed from her byline, might cross the line of neutrality for me. Otherwise, it's all good.
    • Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: Yes
    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: The DYK submission itself looks good, I particularly like ALT0 and ALT1, and for the most part the article is quite good. But I can't help but feel like the use of the "duchess" title throughout the article and in the title crosses the line of non-neutrality, due to her explicit rejection of the title. This is really my main issue with it. Grnrchst (talk) 16:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Grnrchst, by the time she reached the height of her career she had not been called Robertson for over 30 years. She did not reject the title. She merely asked that it be removed from her byline. The Guardian, for example, gives her byline as "Jill Hamilton" but still calls her "duchess of Hamilton" in the description; the Catholic Herald just sticks with "Jill, Duchess of Hamilton". "Jill, Duchess of Hamilton" remains by far the most common name for her in reliable sources, including the obituaries cited in the article. I am not opposed to substituting some of the duchesses with "Hamilton", however. Surtsicna (talk) 23:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Surtsicna: Thanks for the clarification. Per WP:COMMONNAME, I've struck my concerns about the title. I think "the duchess" could safely be replaced in most cases with personal pronouns (she/her), as there's not any ambiguity introduced that requires us to continue repeating who we're talking about. --Grnrchst (talk) 10:47, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Planting a Rainbow

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    Created by Piotrus (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 532 past nominations.

    Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:03, 13 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Hold Your Hand (film)

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    )
    • ... that the film Hold Your Hand was based on the author's experiences after getting arrested in 2013?
    • Reviewed:
    Created by Miminity (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Warm Regards, Miminity (Talk?) (me contribs) 10:11, 10 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    @Launchballer: Unfortunately, the article itself is rather barebones and short (about half of the article consists of the plot summary), and there isn't any other material at the moment that could work as a hook. We could ask Miminity to expand the article further and see what can be done, or the nomination could be marked for closure for lack of a hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:51, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Launchballer: The nominator has a message on his talk page that he will be busy until the 18th. Should we wait until then, or should we seek outside help in the meantime? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:27, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Fine by me.--Launchballer 12:35, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Berta Persson

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    Berta Persson, aka "Buss-Berta" with her first bus, a Chevrolet for 14 passengers.
    Berta Persson, aka "Buss-Berta" with her first bus, a Chevrolet for 14 passengers.
    • ... that in 1927 Berta Persson became the first woman bus driver in Sweden and was nicknamed "Buss-Berta"?
    • Reviewed:
    Created by MumphingSquirrel (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    MumphingSquirrel (talk) 19:31, 10 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • This article is new, long enough and written in a neutral tone. The sources cited look reliable, and all contain information that validates the story of Berta Persson. There are no copyvio issues, and no close paraphrasing. QPQ is not required. The image appears to satisfy DYK requirements (old, and public domain). The hook is clear, to the point and interesting, and verified in the sources cited; it is the most obvious hook for the page. Good to go. Thank you for a fascinating article! Chaiten1 (talk) 21:18, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Many thanks for your kind words Chaiten1, still learning how to do DYKs, so appreciate the encouragement MumphingSquirrel (talk) 21:14, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    MumphingSquirrel, this appears to be close to a WP:ONESOURCE, and as such some passages are uncomfortably close to WP:CLOP territory. It would be better if more sources are found (there are surely some more available in Swedish). ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:22, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on November 12

    [edit]

    Alien: Romulus

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    Sir Ian Holm in Edinburgh August 2004
    Sir Ian Holm in Edinburgh August 2004
    Improved to Good Article status by Lankyant (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 6 past nominations.

    Lankyant (talk) 03:19, 14 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Review: Article is long enough, hook is interesting, but the source (BBC) does not say that the film "starred" Ian Holm, but rather used a CGI image of him (this is also written in the article). Can we tweak the hook to reflect what the source exactly says? Ippantekina (talk) 04:07, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on November 13

    [edit]

    Austin Staats

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    • ... that lacrosse player Austin Staats' contract was suspended after he bit another player's finger?
    Created by SammySpartan (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    SammySpartan (talk) 23:16, 18 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • I don't think either hook would meet WP:DYKBLP given their negative tone and their arguably undue focus. A different angle is needed here. Maybe:
    ALT2 ... that lacrosse player Austin Staats works part-time as a firefighter?
    I understand that it's actually common for professional lacrosse players to have other jobs, but that knowledge may not be common to most readers and thus may still be considered intriguing or unusual. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:01, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I guess as a lacrosse fan, what's notable to me about him has been his anger issues on and off the field, but I totally get the need to be neutral. ALT2 works for me. SammySpartan (talk) 17:30, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on November 15

    [edit]

    Moses sees Rabbi Akiva (Menachot 29b)

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    • Source: Zellentin, Holger (2023). Aras, Martina; Rizk, Charbel; Stosch, Klaus von (eds.). “Honour with Silence the Words of Your Creator” -- Moses’ Silence in bMenaḥot 29b in Light of its Jewish and Christian Context. Beiträge zur komparativen Theologie. Paderborn: Brill . "In my view, the Bavli’s typological reading of Aqiva comes as close as possible to the Christian model, without, however, overstepping the line: Aqiva is perhaps “the one,” but not a new Adam; he is a messianic figure, but not the Messiah; and he is martyred and his body consumed, but he is not yet resurrected."
    • ALT1: ... that Biblical and post-Biblical characters rarely meet in Talmudic stories, as when Moses sees Rabbi Aviva teach and be martyred? Source: Jeffrey Rubenstein, Stories of the Babylonian Talmud (Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press, 2010), 182–20. "I know of no other story that bridges the typically impermeable break between the time of the bible and the time of the sages ...." In 2002, Rubenstein said, "The juxtaposition of these two characters violates the typically strict separation between the biblical and post-biblical times."
    • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Oliver Hutchinson
    • Comment: This is a fictional work (story), so DYK facts are about the story's features or interpretation. Another hook: it can be seen as a "failed theodicy" since God tells Moses to be silent in the face of Akiva's torture. But the hook idea is hard to articulate within the time we have.
    Created by ProfGray (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 9 past nominations.

    ProfGray (talk) 20:24, 20 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Gruppentheorie und Quantenmechanik

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    Created by XOR'easter (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    XOR'easter (talk) 00:23, 16 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Interesting textbook on fine sources, offline sources accepted AGF, no copyvio obvious. I find the original hook more interesting nut can't find "watching" in the source. How about taking it as in the article, and adding the year, because the topic changed much since:
    ALT2: ... that J. A. Wheeler wrote of learning from Weyl's 1928 book Gruppentheorie und Quantenmechanik: "His style is that of a smiling figure on horseback, cutting a clean way through ... with a swift bright sword"?
    I'd like an infobox, because the prose offers a lot of German before we even know it's a book, written when. A picture of the cover would also help. Storye book, could you do such a thing also? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:14, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Infobox done. I have just made a start on the infobox: you will need to change or add information in it. I have found an image; will add it shortly. Storye book (talk) 09:25, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Retelling

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    Created by Piotrus (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 533 past nominations.

    Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:38, 18 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough
    Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
    Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: Overall, the article meets all the criteria for warranting a DYK blurb, and QPQ has been satisfied, but I'm concerned that your proposed hook, in my opinion, doesn't seem that interesting or attention-grabbing. Do you think there's something else interesting you could bring up about retelling aside from how common it is? JJonahJackalope (talk) 21:15, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Piotrus, that definitely sounds more interesting, though if I could make an edit to the phrasing, maybe something like:
    • ... that the feminist retelling of stories can focus on previously nonexistent or marginalized female characters?
    Let me know if this sounds good to you. JJonahJackalope (talk) 13:24, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on November 16

    [edit]

    GNX (album)

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    Created by Lk95 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 83 past nominations.

    NØ 13:56, 23 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Marzēaḥ

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    )
    • ... that an inscription from 243 AD for a leader of the marzēaḥ ends with blesses for his sons, the scribe, the person in charge of the cooking, the cupbearer and other assistants?
    • ALT1: ... that the relationship between the marzēaḥ and veneration of the dead is still debated among scholars, due to sporadic literary evidence?

    — Preceding unsigned comment added by TNM101 (talk • contribs) 17:51, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    • Reviewed:
    Created by פעמי-עליון (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    TNM101 (chat) 07:21, 17 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on November 17

    [edit]

    Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab Al Faihani

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    Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab Al Faihani
    Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab Al Faihani
    Created by Faldi00 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Faldi00 (talk) 19:35, 19 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Same refs etc. Bit spicier. Johnbod (talk) 21:10, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    I prefer this one. The sentence structure and lexicons are way better. Faldi00 (talk) 06:24, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Take it from a native speaker; they're not. But whatever. Johnbod (talk) 13:09, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    De Worsten van Babel

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    Moved to mainspace by Bogger (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 28 past nominations.

    Bogger (talk) 00:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on November 19

    [edit]

    Jews in the Polish Army

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    Created by Piotrus (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 535 past nominations.

    Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 08:43, 23 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    German atrocities committed against prisoners of war during World War II

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    Created by Piotrus (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 534 past nominations.

    Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:58, 22 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    2019 NFC Divisional Playoff game (Seattle–Green Bay)

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    Moved to mainspace by Gonzo fan2007 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 51 past nominations.

    « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 15:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Sun Haven (video game)

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    • ... that players can marry the leader in Sun Haven?
    "Lucia is Sun Haven’s enthusiastic and magically gifted leader." and "To romance Sun Haven’s Lucia, opt for fiery and magical gifts."
    Moved to mainspace by JuniperChill (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 9 past nominations.

    JuniperChill (talk) 00:29, 20 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Note: this may be suitable to run on 30 November, the day after the game is on the Switch as its scheduled to release on 29 Nov at 0700 PST (1500 UTC) according to this Reddit post, which was posted by one of the developers (see the username). I totally forgot about the special hook occasion and only just realised. If not, the 29th will do. JuniperChill (talk) 22:40, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • Also ALT0a: that players can marry Lucia, the leader of Sun Haven?
    • Pretty well-written and interesting article. Both the length and citation quality are alright, however I am of the view that the proposed hooks might potentially be in violation of the rule that "If the subject of the hook is a work of fiction or a fictional character, the hook must be focused on a real-world fact." (WP:DYKFICTION). Would be great if you could propose some other alternatives. Cheers, KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 10:56, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I would disagree with saying that ALT0 definitely meets WP:DYKFICTION because it's about marriage and the concept of marriage is a real-life fact. Plenty of things that happen in real life, such as births, deaths, marriages, going to school, etc. happen in works of fiction. The real issue here based on WP:DYKFICTION is if ALT0 is to be interpreted as a game mechanic or as a plot point: if it's the former, it might meet the guideline, but if it's the latter, it may not. Game mechanics are among those edge cases where it's not clear if DYKFICTION is met or not. At the very least, a reword may be needed. If not, maybe a different angle is needed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:10, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'll hope for the best for this one then. I think i've learnt that DYK hooks shouldn't talk about the game and talk about the real word associated with it. JuniperChill (talk) 08:36, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ALT2: "that Sun Haven did not gain a lot of attention until full release in 2023?"
    ALT3: "that only a few games combine farming RPG like Sun Haven does?"

    Sources: https://www.thegamer.com/best-farming-games-ranked/ "This indie gem has flown under the radar for a surprisingly long time, not gaining much attention until it had its official 1.0 release in early 2023" and https://www.thegamer.com/sun-haven-worth-it/ "Few games blend farming RPG mechanics, casual slice-of-life interactions, and high fantasy styles like Sun Haven does" for ALT2 and 3 respectively


    Articles created/expanded on November 21

    [edit]

    Renildo José dos Santos

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    • ... that Renildo José dos Santos, a Brazilian councilman, was tragically murdered in 1993 after publicly declaring his bisexuality, and his murderers only started serving their sentences in 2015?
    Created by MikutoH (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    --MikutoH talk! 23:48, 27 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    @TheBritinator: it may not be. But is it? You didn't state your perspective in a concrete way. --MikutoH talk! 17:21, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I removed the apparent non-neutral POV~. Since it wasn't specified which part, now I think it's neutral. --MikutoH talk! 20:41, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The hooks remain non-neutral and should be reworded. Full review would be left to TheBritinator or another editor:
    ALT2 ... that Renildo José dos Santos, a Brazilian councilman, was murdered in 1993 after publicly coming out as bisexual? ("Tragically" is commentary that should be avoided per WP:WTW, the second seems to be commentary that might also not meet NPOV).
    Tragic but sadly not uncommon, so I'm not sure if it's "unusual" enough to meet WP:DYKINT, so maybe other editor can chime in? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:40, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Narutolovehinata5: I would say ALT2 is good. TheBritinator ([[User talk:TheBritin --MikutoH talk! 21:01, 11 December 2024 (UTC)ator|talk]]) 16:08, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I support ALT2 as well. --MikutoH talk! 21:01, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Á'a:líya Warbus

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    • Reviewed: Goro Takahashi
    • Comment: Gonna work on the QPQ soon, (Edit: Done!) just wanted to put the finishing touches on the article as soon as I could. For the reviewer, I wanted to add this note, since it can be confusing as Warbus uses several names. Á'a:líya Warbus was born Theresa Point, she was the daughter of former Lieutenant Governor Stephen Point. Point would later marry Kalvin Warbus, and go by Theresa Warbus-Point (or the other way around in some instances), before switching to solely having her surname be Warbus. Within the last two years, she had her name changed to Á'a:líya. Thus, the sources can be here and there with her given name, but it is all her. Older sources call her Theresa Point, sources in the late 2010s-2020s call her Theresa Warbus-Point, Theresa Point-Warbus, or Theresa Warbus, and the most recent ones call her Á'a:líya Warbus. It all can be quite confusing.
    5x expanded by Ornithoptera (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 46 past nominations.

    Ornithoptera (talk) 07:59, 26 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Doug Hamlin

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    Moved to mainspace by Queen of Hearts (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 13 past nominations.

    charlotte 👸♥ 23:30, 25 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • If you're referring to what I think you're referring to, then for me it's interesting enough that they went after him for something that happened that long ago. I therefore propose ALT1 ... that after Doug Hamlin was appointed CEO of the NRA in May 2024, anonymous employees called for his suspension over something that happened in 1979? which I believe sidesteps the negative bit.--Launchballer 16:35, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on November 22

    [edit]

    Sugya

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    • ... that the composition of a sugya, or passage in the Babylonian Talmud, has multiple layers, with the latest edited with an anonymous voice?
    • ALT1: ... that a sugya, or passage in the Talmud, may be read as folklore, philosophy, proto-feminist, or legal virtuosity? Source: Folklore -- Stein, Dina (2019). "Linguistic Liaisons: Wives and Vows in the Babylonian Talmud (BT Nedarim 66a-b)". Nashim: A Journal of Jewish Women's Studies & Gender Issues (35). Philosophy: Lévinas, Emmanuel; Aronowicz, Annette; Lévinas, Emmanuel (1990). Nine Talmudic readings. Bloomington: Indiana Univ. Press. ISBN 978-0-253-20876-7. Proto-feminist: Hauptman, Judith (1998). Rereading the rabbis: a woman's voice. Boulder, Colo.: Westview Press. ISBN 978-0-8133-3400-4. Conceptual "virtuosity: -- Moscovitz, Leib (2003). ""Designation is Significant": An Analysis of the Conceptual Sugya in bSan 47b–48b". AJS Review. 27 (2): 227–252. Let me know if quotes from sources would be helpful.
    • ALT2: ... that anonymous editors may create a sugya, or passage in the Talmud, by rewording quotations by earlier rabbis? Source: Moscovitz, Leib. "'The Holy Blessed One Be He... Does Not Permit the Righteous to Stumble': Reflections on the Development of a Remarkable BT Theologoumenon." In Rubenstein, Jeffrey L., ed. Creation and Composition: the Contribution of the Bavli Redactors (Stammaim) to the Aggada. Mohr Sieback, 2005, p126 "Second, the anonymous BT redactors contributed to the Talmud by reformulating amoraic dicta, not just by adding to their statements." Friedman, Shamma (2005). "A Good Story Deserves Retelling – The Unfolding Of The Akiva Legend" in same book: see p.72 "anonymous voice in the sugyot... original and creative rather than simply preserving or transmitting"
    • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Tony Pajaczkowski
    • Comment: Open to suggestions with the hook, trying to avoid insider jargon. Also, please help with my faulty template use in the QPQ. Btw, "proto-feminist" isn't quite parallel structure.
    Created by ProfGray (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 9 past nominations.

    ProfGray (talk) 04:43, 24 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    ILEA Educational Television Service

    (
    )
    • ... that a cable TV channel in the UK was still broadcasting primarily in black and white as late as 1979?
    • Source: "Both the ULAVC and ILEA had converted into colour production by 1980, however, the now old GPO VHF cable network was only just capable of transmitting high quality colour (it was originally designed for analogue black and white in 1967)."
    https://blogs.imperial.ac.uk/videoarchive/ilea-channel-7-network-1968-1979/
      • Reviewed:
    Created by Nylix4488 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Nylix4488 (talk) 01:03, 23 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Thank you for the fix, but it still doesn't completely match the article. The article does not directly support the "still broadcasting primarily" wording, and indeed the article doesn't even directly state if there was still a black-and-white broadcast in 1979. Given that this is a TV station-related nomination and with how this has been stuck for a while, I'm asking Sammi Brie for help with the nomination and article. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:57, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • I've actually heard of this thing, believe it or not. And I have indeed located a reference to this effect in The Times Educational Supplement. We are good on that front, but there is still a paragraph missing an ending citation, Nylix4488. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 01:17, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Snow Globe Game

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    Moved to mainspace by Gonzo fan2007 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 52 past nominations.

    « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 23:09, 22 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Not a full review, more of a comment, but per the old supplementary guidelines "Don't assume everyone worldwide knows what country or sport you're talking about." and perhaps more relevantly WP:DYKINT, a rephrasing or different angle may be in order. Most of the world might not understand the hook as currently written as it relies somewhat on specialist American football terminology. This is not to say the hook angle is itself unusable, just that it may need to be reworded for the benefit of international readers and/or non-sports fans. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:38, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I can respect that, and per your message I won't be participating in your nominations moving forward. However, I still think that the hook hard to read, and the interesting aspect is lost among all the details. Maybe if it is simplified to something like:
    ALT1 ... that in a snowy NFL playoff game, the Green Bay Packers went from losing 14-0 to winning 42-20? (thanks to Epicgenius for suggesting the wording).
    Of course, another editor can take a look. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:34, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    For future reviewers, I'm open to rewording, but I don't agree that "fumble" or "touchdown" are specialist terminology, similar to how "tackle" and "goal" are fairly well understood words in the English language, regardless of ones understanding of football/soccer. American football is an international sport with over 400 million followers across the world. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 23:45, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Suggesting another hook idea that keeps the use of touchdowns (which I agree is legible in English-speaking contexts) and makes it a bit easier for non-NFL fans: ALT2 ... that the Green Bay Packers won a snowy NFL playoff game by scoring six straight touchdowns after they had been losing 14–0? SounderBruce 05:59, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    SounderBruce, I am good with ALT2. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 15:19, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on November 24

    [edit]

    Straight-tusked elephant

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    Improved to Good Article status by Hemiauchenia (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Hemiauchenia (talk) 19:31, 30 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Bitcoin buried in Newport landfill

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    Created by CommunityNotesContributor (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    CNC (talk) 17:35, 28 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Given that both hooks seem rather complicated, I wonder if we could just truncate both hooks at "2013", though the final decision could be left to the reviewer. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:55, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Have added ALT2 for a shorter version. I think the £495m needs referencing as 8,000 Bitcoin is a meaningless number/value to most people, unless this is the purpose of an intriguing and deliberately vague hook though? Not sure. Have amended link placement, but happy for reviewer to tweak and improve as needed. Hooks are not my strong suit, thanks. CNC (talk) 12:02, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on November 25

    [edit]

    Frederick Warren Freer

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    Frederick Warren Freer
    Frederick Warren Freer
    Moved to mainspace by Kimikel (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 26 past nominations.

    Kimikel (talk) 17:31, 25 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • The article was moved to mainspace on time and a full QPQ has been performed. No close paraphrasing was found (the yellow result on Earwig is a false positive due to repeated mentions of institutions), and both hooks are cited inline and verified. Either hook can be used. The image is public domain so acceptable, but it is probably a bad fit for the Main Page owing to it not being that good quality (the eyes and facial features are not that good at that resolution). There's only one minor issue holding this back: ALT1 is supported by the source, but the current wording of the article does not suggest he studied medicine first before switching, but rather he studied art in lieu of medicine. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:40, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Actually, a reword to the article would suffice in fixing ALT1's issue. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on November 26

    [edit]

    Family Stress Model

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    • ... that the Family Stress Model helps explain how economic hardship impacts children and adolescents through family-level processes like interpersonal conflict between caregivers and disrupted parenting?
    • Source: "We consider the Family Stress Model (FSM) as a useful framework for understanding the family stress process and its potential impact on children’s lives. As illustrated in Figure 1, the FSM outlines a theoretical process by which economic hardships and pressures (Boxes 1 and 2) exacerbate child and adolescent maladjustment (Box 5) primarily through parents’ psychological distress (Box 3), interparental relationship problems (Box 4a), and disrupted parenting (Box 4b). Box 6 involves additional risk factors that may intensify and protective factors that may dampen the family stress process. Since proposed by Conger and his colleagues there have been at least three published reports that review systematically the extent of empirical support for the FSM." (Masarik & Conger, 2017; Stress and Child Development: A Review of the Family Stress Model, p. 85).
    • Reviewed:
    Moved to mainspace by MezLazYaz (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    MezLazYaz (talk) 23:37, 3 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Comment @MezLazYaz Not a review. The lead of the article needs work as it doesn't even acknowledge that the FSM is a theory. The very first sentence needs to define what the Family Stress Model is. The first seven words in the lead should/must say "The Family Stress Model is a theory..." You can talk about it growing out of something after you have given a succinct definition in the opening sentence. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section.4meter4 (talk) 15:05, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Alessandra Rojo de la Vega

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    • Reviewed:
    Created by Alan Islas (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 10 past nominations.

    Alan Islas (talk) 15:43, 1 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough
    Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems

    Hook eligibility:

    QPQ: No - Not done
    Overall: Notwithstanding Tbhotch's comment, QPQ has yet to be done. KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 11:20, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Yvonne Francis-Gibson

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    Moved to mainspace by Miraclepine (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 63 past nominations.

    ミラP@Miraclepine 00:38, 1 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on November 27

    [edit]

    Carlisle Chang

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    • ... that Carlisle Chang's mural The Inherent Nobility of Man, "possibly the most important work of art in the Caribbean", was destroyed during an airport expansion?
    • Source: Art historian Geoffrey MacLean describes it as having been “possibly the most important work of art in the Caribbean”...The Piarco mural was demolished in 1979, to public outcry, when the airport building was extended. [35]
    • ALT1: ... that "the most important work of art in the Caribbean", Carlisle Chang's mural The Inherent Nobility of Man, was destroyed during an airport expansion? Source: Art historian Geoffrey MacLean describes it as having been “possibly the most important work of art in the Caribbean”...The Piarco mural was demolished in 1979, to public outcry, when the airport building was extended. [36]
    • ALT2: ... that Carlisle Chang helped design both the flag and the coat of arms of Trinidad and Tobago? Source: "Eventually, Chang got down to work, doing designs at night and submitting them on mornings to the Ministry of Home Affairs whose officials would eventually fly to London where the final designs had to be vetted and approved by Herald’s College. Chang disclosed that the Coat of Arms contains one key input from then premier, Dr Eric Williams, first prime minister of independent Trinidad and Tobago. “He wanted Tobago on the top of it, and that’s what he got. The palm tree on the top is Tobago.”
      For the flag, Chang opted for blocks of red, white and black with very precise dimensions. In an interview with Banyan he explained that he was “determined that a child should be able to draw it with a ruler.”" [37]
    • Reviewed: pending
    Moved to mainspace by Guettarda (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 37 past nominations.

    Guettarda (talk) 04:33, 30 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough
    Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems

    Hook eligibility:

    • Cited: Yes
    • Interesting: Yes
    • Other problems: No - n
    Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.

    QPQ: No - Not done
    Overall: Taking on this review. Guettarda, the article is solid and well-sourced. All three hooks are interesting, but ALT0 and ALT1 refer to Chang's work as the most important of the Caribbean, which seems like a huge claim. It might be better to attribute this assertion to the sources in accordance with DYKDEFINITE. Earwig shows a 44.1% similarity to the sources, but I believe this is due to the numerous direct quotations. I performed a spotcheck on sources 1 and 3 and found no major issues, although source 1 notes that Chang's father actually originated from Canton, China, so you might consider adding this detail to the article. Also, there is a missing square bracket in the quotation "Tobago at the top of [the coat of arms" in the National symbols section. Please ping me once you have completed the QPQ and addressed the issues mentioned above. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 06:40, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @Prince of Erebor: Thanks so much. I completely forgot about the QPQs. I'll get to that and the other stuff ASAP - I'll ping you as soon as I'm done. I ran it through Earwig's myself and was surprised how high it was, but it was the quotes. Guettarda (talk) 14:14, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on November 28

    [edit]

    Tema "Sacher"

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    )
    • ... that a critic called Benjamin Britten's Tema "Sacher" "a pathetic fragment which can only be explained by the desperate state of the composer's health at the the time"?
    Created by CurryTime7-24 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 53 past nominations.

    CurryTime7-24 (talk) 04:45, 28 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Two minor issues. The first is that the citation gives page 369 as the source of the wuote. Unless I'm mistaken, that appears to be incorrect. The second issue is that the citation must be repeated at the end of the sentence from which the hook is derived, meaning you need both the first and second sentences of the critical reception section to have citations at the end for ALT1. Otherwise, I think we're good to go. ~ Pbritti (talk) 00:00, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on November 29

    [edit]

    Ripken (dog)

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    )
    Created by Johnson524 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 20 past nominations.

    Johnson524 11:34, 5 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    General: Article is new enough and long enough

    Policy compliance:

    Hook eligibility:

    • Cited: No - The Manual (misspelled as The Manuel) used for ALT0 seems to be a clickbait-like website run by Digital Trends, which I would disqualify as a reliable source. InspireMore (used for ALT1) also seems to have journalistic standards and an editorial staff, but is very low quality; surely there's better sources out there?
    • Interesting: Yes
    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: Article need some work, especially in the sourcing department. ALT0 would be usable with some cleanup and a better source. SounderBruce 04:47, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    • @SounderBruce: Thank you for the review, and I'm sorry for submitting this article in such a poor state, I didn't realize how many things were wrong with it! I have removed The Manual source from the page, replaced the ALT0 source with a much better one from Golf Digest, and added a supporting source for ALT1. I'm really bad at copyediting, its something I wish I was better at, but I believe I've removed the worst of the informal wording from the page, so please feel free to tell me what other corrections I can do for the page. Thank you again, and cheers! Johnson524 18:51, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Debra Toporowski

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    5x expanded by Ornithoptera (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 47 past nominations.

    Ornithoptera (talk) 07:11, 2 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Well... They're done now, thanks for the heads up. Ornithoptera (talk) 11:44, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Hefker

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    )
    • ... that hefker, unowned property in Talmudic law, came to express both personal freedom and societal abandonment in 20th C. Yiddish poetry?
    • Source: Brenner, Naomi. "Milgroym, Rimon and Interwar Jewish Bilingualism." Journal of Jewish Identities 7, no. 1 (2014): 23-48, including "in Yiddish modernism hefker becomes a new mode of poetic identity that at once celebrates and suffers from this lack of belonging" " In contrast to Bergelson and Markish’s freedom and movement, Stencl’s hefker-yung is no free modernist spirit, but rather a crucified Jesus" Murav, Harriet. "David Hofshteyn’s Poetry of Listening." Lyre–Studies in Poetry and Lyric 1 (2023) including: "This essay examines the multiple resonances of the Jewish term hefker (literally,“unclaimed, abandoned, or neglected property”)... The pogrom cycle, as a whole, is a journey through the broken time and space of antisemitic violence."
    • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/René Vallon
    • Comment: While there are potential hooks from ancient Jewish law alone, the use of this dry legal principle in modernist Yiddish poetry is pretty amazing IMO and new to me. If we're concerned people won't know words like Talmudic and Yiddish, the hook can substitute 'Jewish' for either or both. Thanks.
    Created by ProfGray (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 10 past nominations.

    ProfGray (talk) 21:30, 29 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Gonna suggest an alt :)

    • ALT0a: ... that some 20th century Yiddish poetry incorporates the Talmudic concept of hefker?

    Mm, not quite. Trying to figure out how to emphasize the time disparity. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 14:06, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Adrien Nunez

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    Adrien Nunez in the number 0 jersey
    Adrien Nunez in the number 0 jersey
    Moved to mainspace by TonyTheTiger (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 368 past nominations.

    TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:06, 29 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    @Narutolovehinata5: That's a double nom.--Launchballer 15:51, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I see, but it should have been mentioned in the nom to avoid confusion. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:02, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on December 1

    [edit]

    Qvadriga

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    Created by Hahnchen (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 7 past nominations.

    hahnchen 00:04, 6 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • This is my first DYK review so let me know if I made a mistake. QPQ has been done. Article long enough (5032 characters), images licensed correctly, Earwig null results, article is well-referenced and presentable. Hook is verified and cited to a reliable primary source. However, I do not think the hook is interesting. Why should regular reader care that a video game is inspired by another board game? Ca talk to me! 02:25, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • Thanks, the reason I chose this hook is because there's a large gap in between the board game and the video game. I thought it was interesting to show the board game's legacy. I can suggest other hooks which refer to chariot racing, like the forty-three hippodromes and circuses, but I felt that less interesting because they are all just presented from a top down view. - hahnchen 15:22, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on December 2

    [edit]

    Science Fiction Chronicle

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    )
    Created by Piotrus (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 536 past nominations.

    Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:24, 10 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Recategorization

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    )
    • ... that in 2003, Rwanda adopted a constitution that recategorized Rwandans of Hutu, Tutsi, and Twa ethnicities into one identity, banyarwanda?
    • Source: Beyond Conflict and Spoilt Identities: How Rwandan Leaders Justify a Single Recategorization Model for Post-Conflict Reconciliation

    Authored by Sigrun Marie Moss and published in the Journal of Social and Political Psychology in 2014. PDF available at: [38] Quotes: "Since 1994,the Rwandan government has attempted to remove the division of the population into the ‘ethnic’ groups (ubwoko) Hutu, Tutsi and Twa and instead encourage people to think of themselves only in terms of a common national Rwandan identity. This approach can be classified as recategorization of social identities– a process where subordinate identities are replaced with a shared or superordinate identity in order to improve intergroup relations." ...

    "This comprehensive recategorization approach is based on a meta-narrative that essentialises Rwandan unity and de-essentialises ethnic identities, in a context where alternative narratives are not permitted. The 2003 constitution forbids genocide ideology, and a 2008 addition further limits identity discussions. These strict genocide ideology laws ban everything seen as divisionism, implying limited freedom of speech on topics of identity, political power and representation."
      • Reviewed:
    Created by Paradox38 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Paradox38 (talk) 19:37, 8 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on December 3

    [edit]

    Anthony E. Wills

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    )
    Anthony E. Wills
    Anthony E. Wills
    • ... that it was only after his death at a relatively young age that several of Anthony E. Wills's plays were adapted into films?
    • Alt1 ... that films were made of plays written by Anthony E. Wills (pictured) after his death at a relatively young age?
    • Sources: Youth at time of death in 1912- "Anthony E. Willis Dies". Billboard. Vol. 24, no. 31. August 3, 1912. p. 6. "Despite his youth, Mr Wills had gained considerable of a reputation as an author and producer."
    Vitagraph Studios obtaining film rights in 1913 after his death: "Film Co. Feeling Around; Trying Hard to Be Friendly". Variety. 30 (12): 8. May 23, 1913.
    Two film reviews: ""Our Wives"". The Moving Picture World. 18 (1): 49. October 4, 1913., "Empire". Bridgeport Evening Farmer. June 23, 1913. p. 8.
    A third film covered in Erish, Andrew A. (2021). Vitagraph: America's First Great Motion Picture Studio. University Press of Kentucky. ISBN 9780813181219.
    Created by 4meter4 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 98 past nominations.

    4meter4 (talk) 02:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    2024 attack on the Bangladesh Assistant High Commission in India

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    )
    • Reviewed:
    Created by Za-ari-masen (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Za-ari-masen (talk) 15:01, 4 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on December 4

    [edit]

    Good Gravy! (roller coaster)

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    )
    Created by Plighting Engineerd (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Plighting Engineerd (talk) 05:25, 9 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Ly Singko

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    )
    Created by Kingoflettuce (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 173 past nominations.

    KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 07:13, 5 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • At the moment, I'm unsure if I will give this a full review or not, so for now this is just an inquiry: I'm really not sure what the connection is between her growing up in a Catholic household and working for the Kuomintang, to the primary hook fact (the "glamourising" aspect). I understand that there's supposed to be a contrast between the allegation despite him being involved with the Kuomintang, but I suspect that readers will not immediately get the connection. More importantly, the part seems to add unnecessary complexity to the hook: just saying he was imprisoned for "glamourising" should suffice per WP:DYKTRIM since that fact itself is already interesting and the part doesn't seem essential to the hook fact. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:18, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I just realized that the hook is 198 characters, or just a hair below the 200-character limit, so it definitely needs trimming. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:40, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    At least a hundred other suspected communist sympathisers were imprisoned during this period, but I thought what made this especially interesting was that he (not she!!) was Catholic and had worked for the Kuomintang's news agency. The irony should be quite obvious (or so I thought)... And if something is under the limit, albeit just by 2 characters, shouldn't it technically still be permissible? 😅 (As opposed to being 2 characters over...) KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 12:43, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Kingoflettuce: As mentioned per above, per WP:DYKTRIM, excessive detail and facts should be removed if they are not essential to the hook fact. According to the old rules (and also continued in spirit in the current guidelines), hooks slightly below the 200 character limit can still be rejected per editor discretion. Actually, I've gone ahead and struck it, so a new hook is needed. As for the misgendering, I apologize: the pronouns are now fixed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:19, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Well yeah but as I said I thought the details weren't excessive, rather they REALLY added to the "interestingness" of the charges. It'd be like if a Jan 6 participant was found to be a dedicated ActBlue donor or something. Oh well. I sure hope it's not just me who finds the irony much too obvious though! KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 14:31, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I did a bit of a mini-survey on Discord and all the responses said the original hook was too complex or detailed, so it wasn't just I who had similar views. In any case, please propose a new hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:40, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Sure that's fine, how about ..."... that Chinese-language newspaper columnist Ly Singko was imprisoned for "glamourising the communist system"? Cheers, KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 04:25, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Articles created/expanded on December 5

    [edit]

    Jack Browning

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    • Source: SDSU website ("Also earned first-team all-MW accolades at punter [1] by Pro Football Focus, Phil Steele Magazine and College Football Network, and as a kickoff specialist [2] by College Football Network, and a fourth-team honoree at kicker [3] by Phil Steele Magazine")
    • Reviewed: to do
    • Comment: Will complete QPQ within 24 hours.
    Moved to mainspace by BeanieFan11 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 276 past nominations.

    BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:39, 12 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Noah Knigga

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    )
    • ... that American football player Noah Knigga went viral for his last name and had to clarify its pronunciation?
    Created by Soulbust (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 39 past nominations.

    Soulbust (talk) 20:55, 12 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Mawali (tribe)

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    )
    Mawali tribal sheikhs, 1880s
    Mawali tribal sheikhs, 1880s
    • ... that the Mawali tribe dominated the Syrian steppe until the 18th century, when they were driven out to the Hama and Idlib regions, where their descendants remain to the present day?
    • Source: *Douwes, Dick (2000). The Ottomans in Syria: A History of Justice and Oppression, pp. 27, 31-32
    • Dukhan, Haian (2019). State and Tribes in Syria: Informal Alliances and Conflict Patterns, p. 1878
    • Reviewed:
    • Comment: QPQ Pending
    Moved to mainspace by Al Ameer son (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 178 past nominations.

    Al Ameer (talk) 18:19, 9 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Comment: I uploaded a derivative version of the image with a bit more detail. It's not great, but when you compare it with the original, you can make out more of the scene, the details of their faces and clothing, and you can clearly see the hand on the sword ready to strike the photographer, whereas in the original it is somewhat blurry. Like I said, not great, and one would have to spend a lot of time on it to get the lights and darks just right. I just ran a filter on it for detail, WB, and cropped. Viriditas (talk) 22:18, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: @Al Ameer son: Still need 2 QPQs. I tend to find that it helps to do the QPQs in advance, before you make the nomination. Viriditas (talk) 22:29, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Al Ameer son: Please provide the needed two QPQs, as the nomination may be closed without further warning if they are not given promptly. The nomination has been open for four days already without a QPQ given, so they should be done as soon as possible (they should have actually been done at the time of the nomination). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:10, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Josie Brown Childs

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    • ... that community activist Josie Brown Childs had the title of "Matriarch of the Movement"?
    Created by SL93 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 419 past nominations.

    SL93 (talk) 02:49, 8 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Comment. Not a review, but in examining the article it relies heavily on primary materials. The History Makers source should probably directly link to the interview transcript (https://www.thehistorymakers.org/sites/default/files/A2013_248_EAD.pdf) and give credit to Larry Crowe as the interviewer. I would consider this a primary source. I added an independent obituary with a byline but it consisted mostly of quotes so I'm not sure how independent that is either. The Black Metropolis Research Consortium source should be replaced with the original at https://www.chipublib.org/fa-josie-brown-childs-papers/ These papers are housed at the the Chicago Public Library, Vivian G. Harsh Research Collection, Woodson Regional library and were processed/compiled by Elizabeth Loch and Emily Minehart who should be attributed as the authors/compilers of the file. Unfortunately neither of these two biographies have a named authors and they both have close attachments to primary materials (one being principally an interview with the subject with an attached non-bylined biography, and the other papers donated by the subject housed at a library with again a non by-lined biography). It's not clear how independent these sources are from Childs, although I don't doubt they are accurate. The article is also not compliant with MOS:CHRONOLOGICAL. I do think this person is notable, I'm just not certain if the sources currently in the article clearly demonstrate WP:SIGCOV which is a concern for promoting this to the main page.4meter4 (talk) 03:03, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      4meter4 As for chronological, are you only referring to the death being mentioned under the personal life and death section? SL93 (talk) 03:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @SL93 Yes. Biographies should be presented in chronological order; ending with a person's death and maybe a legacy section covering after death significance if appropriate. Generally an "early life and education" section opens an article. Then a "career section". Then a "later life" section which includes a person's death as well as activities in retirement. If possible, it's best to interweave personal life information into the article's other sections and not separate it out in order to maintain chronological presentation. Best.4meter4 (talk) 03:17, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    4meter4 I did that with a death section until the point that editors whined about me having a short section with a few sentences or less. That caused me to not include death details in their own section for a few years up until you saying something about it. SL93 (talk) 03:20, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    How do these sources look? - [39], [40], [41], and [42]. SL93 (talk) 03:32, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @SL93 I'll look at the sources and get back to you shortly on that point. It is true that short subsections are also problematic under WP:MOS guidelines. If there isn't enough content for a later life section, it's perfectly fine to have a single "Career and later life" subheading. You can bundle topics under one section. Likewise the opposite is true when writing on a person where there is more detail. In those cases you can extrapolate out more diverse subheadings if/when it is appropriate. There is flexibility to expand, remove, and combine subheadings as long you follow both the general MOS and the Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biography guidelines. Every article isn't going to look the same, but biographies do need to present content in chronological order as much as possible. Best.4meter4 (talk) 03:42, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @SL93 I think those sources look great, and would do a lot to help demonstrate SIGCOV. Please take the time to work those into the article, and also please make the adjustments to the extant sources that I mentioned above if you haven't already. Doing all of that should prevent any notability issues being raised while it is on the main page. The main thing is we don't want an article to get pulled when it is on the main page at DYK because somebody decides to take it to AFD. It's not a good look for the project. Having a good number of by-lined sources helps prevent that. Best.4meter4 (talk) 03:50, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you. I will leave a note here once I'm done. SL93 (talk) 03:53, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm done. SL93 (talk) 02:20, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    I wasn't reviewing so someone else can review this. Best.4meter4 (talk) 03:52, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    Current nominations

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    Articles created/expanded on December 6

    [edit]

    The Philly Specials

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    • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Thomas P. Fenner
    • Comment: I am suggesting this DYK for the Christmas or a pre-Christmas DYK set. While I'm counted as having only 4 past nominations for DYK, I've actually made 18 by my count, so I have done a QPQ this time.
    Moved to mainspace by Metropolitan90 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:56, 12 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    The House of Bijapur

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    The House of Bijapur
    The House of Bijapur
    • ... that The House of Bijapur (pictured) has been called a "painted curtain call" since the dynasty it depicts was overthrown only a few years later?
    Created by AmateurHi$torian (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    AmateurHi$torian (talk) 15:47, 8 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Prius Missile

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    Created by AlphaBetaGamma (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 02:09, 6 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Comment: @AlphaBetaGamma: Thanks for such an interesting article. I'm from California but I live in Hawaii. Both states have a lot of Priuses, so I was pretty confused by your hook when I read it, because in those two states, the Prius is not really known for crashes. (The joke around these parts is that it's usually a Nissan, but it's not exactly clear why that is). I read your article, and I see that it is mostly about a phenomenon in Japan involving older drivers, which makes a lot of sense and is quite interesting. I think this is the kind of hook (ALT0) that shocks readers (like myself) and increases traffic to your article, but I also wonder if it is somewhat misleading since the hook itself doesn't mention Japan or older drivers. In any case, it's a great hook, but I wonder if it is legit to shock the reader like this. If it is, it's highly effective and would probably get a lot of traffic. I'm not sure if we can trick readers like this, so I will ping a few people and see what they say: @Launchballer and RoySmith: Thanks. ABG, you are also missing the word "as" in ALT1. Viriditas (talk) 10:23, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    This seems like click bait. I wouldn't run it. RoySmith (talk) 13:59, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @RoySmith: Thank you, that was one of my concerns. My other question is where is the red line? In other words, some of our most successful hooks approach clickbait, wouldn't you agree? How do you know when you've crossed that line? For me, this hook crosses it, as it doesn't let the reader know that the Prius is only considered accident prone in Japan due to the demographic of older drivers. Perhaps, if it just stopped there, it would be fine, but it doesn't. Reading further, we discover this is just a slang term, and that official data shows that Priuses are no more accident prone than other vehicles, which is what I suspected from the jump. For this reason, I am leaning into crossing out ALT0. Viriditas (talk) 21:15, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Review
    General: Article is new enough and long enough

    Policy compliance:

    Hook eligibility:

    QPQ: None required.

    Overall: Article is new enough and long enough and moved from draft to mainspace. Earwig shows no issues. It's not clear if the nominator is the author of the original article, which was created on ja.wikipedia in mid 2021. If not, I believe you're supposed to attribute when you copy over the material as a translation in your first edit, but you just wrote "start draft". In any case, you've got a fully formed, well written article over at ja, yet you only copied over (or wrote) a minor version of it here. I don't get why you did that. The current version here on en.wikipedia needs copyedits. However, I would encourage you to return to the ja article and import the majority of it back over here, as it makes much more sense and covers the entire topic in a comprehensive manner. As for your hooks, ALT0 is ragebait (see the discussion above), and you got me good! I was genuinely upset as to why the beloved Prius (official car of liberals in the US) was associated with crashes! I clicked so fast and hard that smoke came out of my mouse. It was then that I realized, I had been fooled. More so when I check the original article on ja. Then there's the image of the crashed vehicle. I recall seeing that image before, and I think it's from California. Have you considered using Japan-related images? So, you've got a lot of issues to deal with here, but I can walk you through them. First things first, why not copy over the entire article from ja? It's really well done and would clear up a great many things. Viriditas (talk) 21:51, 6 December 2024 (UTC) Viriditas (talk) 21:51, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Not really, the paragraph
    Extended content
    According to Masaki Kubota [ja], the viral spread of the slang and the creation of the Prius's public image as a crash-prone car is thought to be caused by the extremely large amount of the car in use, the car being popular among older drivers, older drivers usually being overconfident in their driving skills, and the Prius's significance as a well-known car brand.

    Covered the entire "原因" paragraph. Not too sure how much I should cover beyond that. I hope the next ALT is more informing, because the lack of information causing "click bait" seems to be the issue here. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 22:12, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    • IMO, "referred to a missile" doesn't really work in English. Also, try rearranging your primary link so that it comes first; that tends to increase views. You may also want to work in the fact that this is a slang term or a meme, as that isn't made clear. As for the main ja article, I'm not clear on the disconnect based on your response. There's a lot of content in that article that didn't find its way here, and it more accurately describes the topic.[43] Viriditas (talk) 22:24, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on December 7

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    Jewish Ethnographic Expedition

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    Created by Artem.G (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 18 past nominations.

    Artem.G (talk) 07:51, 12 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on December 8

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    The Man Who Knew Too Much (Alexander McQueen collection)

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    Created by Premeditated Chaos (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 58 past nominations.

    ♠PMC♠ (talk) 03:31, 9 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on December 9

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    Kim Kitsuragi

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    • Source: See Accolades section
    Improved to Good Article status by Shooterwalker (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 8 past nominations.

    Shooterwalker (talk) 19:33, 11 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Comment I have stacked a bunch of DYK assists in the summer. But if it's in doubt I can pick up another. I'm also open to suggestions on the DYK ALT, for anything that might be interesting to an average reader who might not be deeply familiar with video games. Shooterwalker (talk) 19:35, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    An Amorous History of the Silver Screen

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    Created by Crisco 1492 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 720 past nominations.

     — Chris Woodrich (talk) 21:57, 9 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on December 10

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    2024 MLS expansion draft

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    Created by Demt1298 (talk) and Motdattan (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Demt1298 (talk) 00:50, 13 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Christmas: A Biography

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    Moved to mainspace by Miraclepine (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 65 past nominations.

    ミラP@Miraclepine 17:19, 12 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    • Comment:I think there's a few problems here. ALT0 and ALT1 are red flags, and are not supported by the book. They are cultural and verbal anachronisms. Capitalism didn't arise until the 16th century, so Christmas couldn't have become capitalist in the fourth century. I looked at the book, and the author doesn't say this. It sounds like you are citing book critics who may have been writing tongue in cheek or perhaps were making their own arguments, I don't know. Also, there's similar problems in the article itself. For example, you write, "After debunking the myth of pagan winter solstice celebrations due to a lack of sufficient evidence, it reveals that the precursor of Christmas was the Mithraism winter solstice celebrations, which were later co-opted by Christians under the rule of Pope Julius I for the celebration of the nativity of Jesus on 25 December." I think you may have misread the passage in the book. The author doesn't debunk anything. The author notes that we only have evidence for pagan celebrations handed down to us by the Romans; the evidence of pagan winter solstice celebrations in Europe prior to the Romans has been lost to time. Also, the author doesn't say "Christmas has always been a secular, capitalist celebration", perhaps that's the argument of the book reviewers and critics. The author's central thesis is given several times: 1) while Christmas is known as a Christian holiday, it wasn't always known as a solemn, religious event in the past, and has tended to focus on celebration and entertainment more than religion. 2) Christmas is made up of many different traditions, and is not unique to any one nation or culture. Now, the author describes this "dancing and feasting" in the fourth century as a "secular pleasure", which is an odd use of the term given that it was an official Christian holiday at the time. The author's argument goes further, pointing to both the religious nature of Saturnalia, which began several days before December 25, the religious worship of the birth of Mithras on the winter solstice, and the secularity of a Roman New Year's festival during the New Year, when people spent more money than usual on festivities, particularly the wealthier class. Far from debunking the pagan origins, the author notes that Christmas merely absorbed the practices and traditions of the pagan festivals. By the middle ages "the focal point...for the majority was not the birth of Christ, but eating and drinking and entertainment". We don't really see capitalism mentioned at all here, so I think there's needs to be a bit of a rewrite. Yes, the author does point to secular practices quite a bit, so you may have a good argument for including that term. Now, assuming changes are made to the article based on the above, I could support some modification of either ALT0 or ALT1. Not a fan of ALT2, ALT3, or ALT4. If you do modify ALT0 or ALT1, I think there's support in the book to say that "Christmas became secular", but I honestly think you should try and go with a new hook that cites the author's thesis directly instead of pointing to secularism. That is to say, a hook that focuses on showing that even though Christmas is a Christian holiday, it has historically focused more on eating, drinking, and entertainment than religion. That kind of hook would remain entirely true to the central thesis of the author, while mentioning capitalism does not, as I don't see where she discusses capitalism in the book other than to point to the Scrooge trope of the Potter character in It's a Wonderful Life. Please correct me if I'm wrong or if I'm missing something. Thinking about it further as I look at the book, there's far, far more interesting hooks here, that make the above all but worthless. You've got a good opportunity to share unusual information about the history of Christmas that most people aren't aware of, and I think you should go that route. The author focuses, for example, on unusual Christmas traditions in the middle ages that would make great hooks. Chapters 5 and 6 talk a lot about the transition into modern conceptions of Christmas that also has a wealth of hooks available. Chapter 7 shows the development of commercialism and how it radically changed the holiday. Viriditas (talk) 23:43, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Viriditas: I've fixed the pagan myth part and capitalism anachronism.
    Also, the reviews tend to point out facts about the book before giving their opinion; would citing the author's thesis be directly from the book or the reviews' factual content? As for scourging the book for hooks, I believe how the book works is usually more hookier than random stuff the book has, and to be fair, I figured ALT2 would be hooky given the irony between the word biography (indicating it's about a person) and Christmas being a concept.
    I have added new hooks without the capitalism anachronism, as well as those that focus on the secularism and enjoyment:
    BTW you should try to organize your long replies by paragraph and topic so they're easy to read. Let me know if I missed something. ミラP@Miraclepine 04:27, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The problems are still in the article and the hooks don't necessarily reflect the book. The lead still says the book "suggests that the holiday's transition towards secular capitalism occurred shortly after its inception in the fourth century", the body still says the book "explores the belief that Christmas shifted from what Flanders calls 'a deeply solemn religious event' to one of secular capitalism" That's not in the book and the author doesn't discuss that and it's not her central thesis as I showed up above. You're also misreading what you call "a lack of what Flanders calls 'convincing evidence' of pagan winter solstice celebrations". The book doesn't say that at all, quite the opposite. The author says that the evidence of pagan celebrations in Europe has been lost. Tell you what, tell me which secondary sources discuss capitalism and the lack of convincing evidence for pagan celebrations, and we can resolve this. Otherwise, stick to what the book says and what good summaries and reviews agree upon, and you should be just fine. If you like, I can provide additional examples of how to fix the problem, but I assumed that I already did this in my original reply. Viriditas (talk) 08:09, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I see now that part of the problem is your misreading of Dirda 2017.[49] Dirda isn't making the same claim about capitalism and pagan winter solstice celebrations that you are. Please, read it again, as it reflects what I've been saying all along. Viriditas (talk) 08:22, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]


    General: Article is new enough and long enough

    Policy compliance:

    Hook eligibility:

    QPQ: Done.

    Overall: Curbow 2017; The Economist 2023; Hughes-Hallett 2017; Manning 2017; Publishers Weekly 2017. What do all of these sources have in common? None of them describe Christmas: A Biography as the "belief that Christmas shifted from what Flanders calls 'a deeply solemn religious event' to one of secular capitalism", nor do any of them say that a "transition towards secular capitalism occurred shortly after its inception in the fourth century", which as I have pointed out in my comments makes no sense whatsoever. Barbara Hoffert of Library Journal wins the award for summarizing the 300+ page book in twenty-one succinct words: "Flanders documents Christmas as celebration, from an early pope's complaints about excess holiday cheer to the first holiday parade (not Macy’s!)." That's exactly what the book is about, no more, no less. From what I can gather, the nominator may have been confused by Michael Dirda's WaPo review. Dirda accurately summarizes one of the author's central points: "Yuletide has almost always been more rowdy and secular than reverent or religious." When Dirda writes "First off, forget the Druids: 'No convincing evidence of winter solstice celebrations in pagan Europe has survived", that does not mean that there is a lack of pagan winter solstice celebrations. The author of the book makes this clear in the context of investigating why the date of 25 December was chosen for Christmas. The author muses, perhaps it was because of the winter solstice, but unfortunately, "no convincing evidence of winter solstice celebrations in pagan Europe has survived", so we can't know for sure. This is entirely different than what the article currently says and what it said before. So, I've detailed these many problems several times now. If the nominator wants me to send them a digital copy of the book, please send me an email and I will share an attachment that they can review. The book is not about secularism nor capitalism, it is about how the notions of what we think of as Christmas, which is rooted in the Christian tradition, hasn't really been a solemn, religious event in the past or in the present, and has generally been a time for celebration, such as eating, drinking, and entertainment. Finally, the author discusses how Christmas is made up of many different cultural (and national) traditions, emphasizing the hybridity and fluidity of different traditions involved. In other words, it ain't American, it ain't German, it ain't British, etc. As the nominator correctly observes in the article, consumerism and commercialism came much later, not as we are also told in the current version "shortly after its inception in the fourth century". The problems are not insurmountable. All that is needed is a will to fix them (and the hooks). The "secularism" that the book discusses is the celebration, divorced from its Christian religious beliefs. ALT5A and ALT5B get much closer to this idea, but sadly, they are not interesting compared to the wide variety of possible hooks found in the book and the reviews. Get rid of the "capitalism" material (it's not in any of the secondary sources nor is it in the book), tone down the concept of secularism and focus instead on the secular nature of celebration over the many centuries, and find a great hook, and I think we can move forward. Viriditas (talk) 09:30, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on December 11

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    Always Happy to Explode

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    • ... that regarding a song on Always Happy to Explode, its principal songwriter asked listeners to "love it for me, for I cannot"?
    Moved to mainspace by DrOrinScrivello (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 14 past nominations.

    DrOrinScrivello (talk) 20:03, 12 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Monica Smit

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    Created by TarnishedPath (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    TarnishedPathtalk 06:11, 12 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    An Amorous History of the Silver Screen: Shanghai Cinema, 1896–1937

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    • Source: Semsel, George S. (2008). "Review: An Amorous History of the Silver Screen: Shanghai Cinema, 1896–1937 by Zhang Zhen". The American Historical Review. 113 (2): 471–472. doi:10.1086/ahr.113.2.471. JSTOR 30222875.
    Created by Crisco 1492 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 721 past nominations.

     — Chris Woodrich (talk) 22:52, 11 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on December 12

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    Decoherence and the transition from quantum to classical -- REVISITED

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    • ... that quantum decoherence can turn quantum to classical?
    • Reviewed:
    Created by Phyhuan (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Phyhuan (talk) 04:19, 13 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Allied prisoners of war in Japan

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    Created by Piotrus (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 537 past nominations.

    Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:36, 13 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    Articles created/expanded on December 13

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    Decolonization is Not a Metaphor

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    • Source: Combination of Indigenous sovereignty was never ceded, and the continued presence of settlers is essentially illegitimate. [50] and [51] which explains how "Decolonization is Not a Metaphor". The paper itself as a primary source also supports the first part of the hook.
    • Reviewed:
    Created by Chess (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

    Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 05:29, 13 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]

    James Mustapic

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    )
    • ... that for television, James Mustapic set his mother up on a date with David Seymour, who will soon be the New Zealand deputy prime minister?
    Created by Panamitsu (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 56 past nominations.

    ―Panamitsu (talk) 04:19, 13 December 2024 (UTC).[reply]


    Special occasion holding area

    [edit]
    See also: WP:SOHA

    The holding area is near the top of the Approved page. Please only place approved templates there; do not place them below.

    Do not nominate articles in this section—nominate all articles in the nominations section above, under the date on which the article was created or moved to mainspace, or the expansion began; indicate in the nomination any request for a specially timed appearance on the main page.
    Note: Articles intended to be held for special occasion dates should be nominated within seven days of creation, start of expansion, or promotion to Good Article status. The nomination should be made at least one week prior to the occasion date, to allow time for reviews and promotions through the prep and queue sets, but not more than six weeks in advance. The proposed occasion must be deemed sufficiently special by reviewers. The timeline limitations, including the six week maximum, may be waived by consensus, if a request is made at WT:DYK, but requests are not always successful. Discussion clarifying the hold criteria can be found here: Hold criteria; discussion setting the six week limit can be found here: Six week limit.
    April Fools' Day hooks are exempted from the timeline limit; see Wikipedia:April Fool's Main Page/Did You Know.
    1. ^ https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/alien-romulus-ian-holm-rook-ash-ai-1235982350/
    Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Did_you_know&oldid=1262812941"