Talk:801 Grand

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• 801 Grand Building - Base to Top.jpg

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GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:801 Grand/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sammi Brie (talk · contribs) 06:49, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

I'd like to see some stronger sourcing here, and it may end up being that you come back after adding the newspaper sources you need for this one. Also a fair number of copy tweaks. 7-day hold to Etriusus; ping when done. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 06:49, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Copy changes

• Remove the first comma in sentence one. Commas don't need to follow parentheticals unless the sentence itself needs them. This one does not.
• Construction of 801 Grand Building began in 1989 with I'd add a comma after 1989
• The tower cost $70 million to construct with an additional $19 million parking lot being constructed and financed by the city of Des Moines. A comma after "construct" will aid reading
• buildings that's an apostrophe missing
• where were
• This project was part of a $284 million renovation project I'd remove the second "project"
• Postmodern is one word
• bottom 3 floors, 3rd floor spell out
• "The build"; also don't capitalize "Buildings" and "Century"
• The Notable tenants section first paragraph has several serious errors:
  • In 1993, the 801 Chophouse was established on the second floor the 801 Grand. The Des Moines Register has described the restaurant as one of the "12 of the best steakhouses". The restaurant serves as the chain's flagship and features a gallery of cattle-themed artwork. The stake house has been used as a de facto clubhouse during the Iowa caucuses and is commonly visited by politicians and news personal.
  • First sentence, add "of" after "floor"
  • "One of the 12 of the best steakhouses" is awkward. Maybe something like In 2022, the Des Moines Register listed the 801 Chophouse among the 12 best steakhouses in Des Moines.
  • "Stake house" -> "steakhouse"
  • "Personal" -> "personnel"

 Done Hopefully I got them all

Sourcing and spot checks

I really wish you had more material on the development phase. Have you thought of getting Newspapers.com through WP:TWL? Articles like this and First National Bank Tower would really benefit. Since the last time I reviewed something of yours, the Omaha World-Herald was added, full run! Des Moines Register material from the 1980s would be the next step, but I'm not going to chide someone for not having subscription resources through TWL.

Earwig doesn't turn up any serious issues.

Five sources were chosen of 19 for spot checks:

• 2: This is an Emporis listing, but reference metadata doesn't say that. I'd have to think more significant coverage could be found for completion date and architect than this, but this is...okay for now. Y
• 3: What makes the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat source reliable? It seems like they paywall the building metrics section where this comes from, so I can't verify.

This is a database run by a nonprofit. We even have an article on it Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat

• 11: This and source 10 reiterate the change in tallest building to the Omaha tower. Y
• 13: I believe this is being cited to...the photo caption? Is there something better?

 Done cut

• 19: Press release. Is there something better on F&G relocating? Even a business journal article?

 Done replaced

Other items

• There are three libre licensed photos and a fourth with a VRT ticket associated clearing its use. Alt text is provided either by the gallery template or by the infobox (though the infobox image should probably have separate alt text from caption).

 Done

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Comment: @Sammi Brie:, did you fail this article then place it on hold? On my talk page, Christiebot placed a failed template than a hold template. I assume this is an error, but I want to make sure. I'll get to this review soon, I am taking my medical school admission exam later this week and also have another GA review I'm working on. It may take a couple of days for me to get around to everything, but I'll clean this up before the 7 day period is up.

Funnily enough, I just got my Newspapers.com subscription set up yesterday. I'll see if I can find anything worth including. 🏵️Etrius ( Us) 15:10, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

That sounds like an error (pinging @Mike Christie). Good luck on your MCAT; I can let this sit for a bit so you can focus on far more important things. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 17:11, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping. I just added some code to catch some weird edge cases and it may be misbehaving. I'll take a look. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:23, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

This is the only nomination this happened on. It might be related to the fact that the first action was to place it on hold but that shouldn't be a problem. I don't see what caused this, but have added some tracing code and will check all talk page messages for a while. If you spot something like this again please let me know. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:48, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

@Sammi Brie: Hopefully that everything. I dug up some sources from Newspapers.com. Do you know if IAbot is back up? 🏵️Etrius ( Us) 05:10, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

@Etriusus Yes it is! I just ran it for you. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 05:53, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Some more things (note that I am passing the page). I understand this is your first time using Newspapers.com for article sourcing, so I want to get your attention on this. If you're like me, it will supercharge your editing volume (from 2014–18, I had 144 DYKs; from 2019 to today, I have 433, including 140 last year alone). I have more than 15,000 newspaper clippings added to on enwiki, the second-highest total of any editor, all in the last four years.

1. Clip your stuff. Newspapers.com URLs that contain /image/ cannot be accessed by non-subscribers, but clippings can be. So always, always, always clip! If you had more experience with the site, I would hold the whole article up until any such references were clipped, but I've gone ahead for you.
2. Check your page numbers. Newspapers.com microfilm scans, unless they are recent digital microfilm, do not account for section and page numbers common in many newspapers (p. D3, p. 6C) or supplements such as TV guides that are also scanned (e.g. page "219" of a Sunday paper might really be "TV Plus 11"). The Register of the 80s and early 90s used letters from the section titles (e.g. pages in the section Metro were 1M, 2M, etc.) which is unusual among newspapers. Even in recent years of newspapers, digital microfilm will only show sectioned pages like "D5" when the newspaper's style might be "5D". Some newspapers have numbered sections (which I typically cite as Roman numeral : page number, e.g. 2:6 or II:6); some papers had named sections (looking at you, Tampa Tribune). As you pull citations from different newspapers, you will get a feel for the style of each newspaper.
3. Multi-page articles need care. You will frequently have (and indeed do here) an article that spans multiple pages. This means multiple clippings. To cite an article that consists of multiple clippings, place the first clipping in the URL and cite the first page's article title as its title, then link to additional pages in the |pages= parameter of the citation template. I went ahead and did this as a demonstration with the copper cap article.

If you use Firefox, PressPass by JPxG is an invaluable userscript for high-volume Newspapers.com users. It can generate most of the citation information automatically when clipping, but you still need to check page numbers and manually insert authors. (It also is a little finicky with some recent design changes to the site, so watch out for titles containing HTML markup.)

I also want to leave a remark encouraging you to check your spelling more often. This is my second review of one of your pages; you tend to have a high amount of copy errors and typos compared to other GA-nominated pages I've reviewed. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 06:13, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton (talk) 20:35, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that the 801 Grand is the tallest building in the state of Iowa? Source: http://www.iowaarchfoundation.org/building/801-grand/
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/1957 Mongolia earthquake

Improved to Good Article status by Etriusus (talk). Self-nominated at 14:04, 15 January 2023 (UTC).

• Starting review. Ktin (talk) 17:52, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Article meets eligibility criteria. Recently promoted to GA status. No issues with article's tone etc. Article is adequately sourced. The hook is interesting. The hook's source refers to an archive from 2004 (did I get that right?) Can we get a more recent link? Did a couple of Google searches and it seems to check-out, but, will be good to get a more recent RS link here. No issues detected by Earwig. QPQ done. Passing this back to the nominator. Almost there. Nice work with the article. Ktin (talk) 18:01, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

@Ktin:, I replaced it with an updated source from the Iowa Architectural Foundation. I didn't realize that the Emporis archive was so old, unfortunately it can't be updated since Emporis went offline earlier last year. I appreciate the compliment. :) 🏵️Etrius ( Us) 18:28, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

• Marking approved. Good to go. Ktin (talk) 18:32, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

• DYK bot did not register the green tick above, so I am posting it here again per the above review. Z1720 (talk) 18:02, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

"Postmodernism" or "Postmodern architecture"?

Currently, the article states that "The 801 Grand Building follows a postmodern design", which links to Postmodernism. Should this instead link to Postmodern architecture?

I'd consider making the change myself, but I'm not sure I'm bold enough to edit an article I saw in the "Did you know..." section of the main page.

75.188.230.160 (talk) 20:53, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

I updated the article. 75.188.230.160 (talk) 22:32, 13 February 2023 (UTC)