Talk:Mathura

Mathura as the birthplace of Hindu deity Krishna in scripture

Hi Amit, Mathura's designation as the birthplace of the Hindu deity Krishna is part of Hindu mythology and should be conveyed as such. May I request that thus be included in the article for Mathura? Here's a possible edit for the second paragraph: "In Hindu mythology, Mathura is the birthplace of the Hindu deity Lord Krishna at the centre of Braj or Brij-bhoomi. It is, thus, also called Shri Krishna Janma-Bhoomi, literally: 'Lord Krishna's birthplace'." Thanks very much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.56.7.95 (talk) 15:08, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi, Thanks for reaching out to my talk page, I would kindly disagree with your perspective here. This is a sensitive statement to make. No religion wants to call its gods a myth. I would try to remain neutral. Research lean on both sides and this is a kind of statement that can be made against any religion and any god's and it might end up being just called conspiracy theory. Amit (talk) 02:53, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Stating religious beliefs as facts is hardly "staying neutral". I would love to see the "research" that you feel exists for "both sides". It seems, therefore, that you're personally offended by this change. That, however, is not justification for undoing the original change. (And yes, I do in fact completely agree with you that stating religious beliefs held by ANY religion as factual information is incorrect.)192.86.100.79 (talk) 18:21, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Krishna having super powers or being a god is probably what you feel is questionable and i don't blame you or any one for that, but if there is a mention of krishna then mathura is his birth place.Are you saying Krishna is a myth?? - could be, but as i said research indicates both - I would like you to read the literary sources section in Krishna page which has some references and also some references such as , - thats why i said research leans on both sides (and i am being neutral because i dont see any research saying krishna is a myth from you??). I could also give you a thousand hindu leaning sites such as these , but you would just refute them as biased. Also ancient texts such as Mahabharata and Vishnu purana has details about mathura being his birth place. I did notice your change about Hindu's believe - i think not all hindus believe this and i would rather like to change it to a generic "It is believed". Hope that seems neutral enough. I would love to see the citations on the other side of the argument too - about krishna as completely being a myth. I would also suggest you to keep the discussion on the topic and not try to just fill the page assuming what my personal feelings are. Amit (talk) 19:27, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Also just FYI... this is the edit we are talking about here about mathura being mythological birthplace of krishna... as I mentioned above this has nothing to do with Krishna being god or having super powers. Amit (talk) 19:36, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

"It is believed"? By whom? Certainly not by the overwhelming majority of this planet's inhabitants, and certainly not by the vast majority of historians, Indian or otherwise. That's a weasel word and seeing as how you are so deeply involved in monitoring Wikipedia, you should know better. The confusion is evidently arising from some kind of conflict between your personal religious beliefs (where you, in fact, personally believe that the Hindu deity Krishna was a living, breathing factual person in history) and the general English of the word "mythology", which in that context refers to the collection of scripture and body of text that constitute a religion's narrative. An ideal NEUTRAL compromise would have been for you to change it to something along the lines of: "Hindu scripture indicates Mathura as the birthplace of the deity Krishna..." and NOT link to tabloid-format, non-peer-reviewed, non-academic sources focussed on INDIVIDUALS voicing their personal opinions. A good example would be "INDIA: A SACRED GEOGRAPHY" by Harvard Divinity School professor Diana L. Eck, a thorough and extremely nuanced piece of ACADEMIC writing that you would probably benefit from exploring. 108.56.54.21 (talk) 00:29, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

It is better to take this to the article talk page for further consensus if you feel that my edit is biased. Amit (talk) 00:33, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

References

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I would like more information. Especially Mathura's first ocupation and typical wares. There is a book of Doris Meth Srinivasan about Mathura, I would like passages from it commented or reproduced here.

Perhaps the section on the art of Mathura could be expanded and improved; Kapardin Buddha images should be shown. Information about the type of stone used in sculptures (Sikri Quartzite )should be includedHerlands (talk) 04:36, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Raghav 14:01, 6 February 2007 (UTC) Hi, I see this message on the top of the page asking for cleanup of the page. I would love to understand more about this, since I believe may be I can contribute towards the exercise. Being a native/resident of the city, I feel pretty close to this.

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test —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.21.191.71 (talk) 14:57, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Wrong information

As habitual the info on the districte is quoted in the city page. Please move it because the district article is too short and lack many essencial information.

I suggest push in all the indian districts article a template of warning for the indian collaborators, explaining the difference between city and district, difference that seems that is near unknow in India, and then the convenence of write the article in the right site.--88.19.49.50 (talk) 14:41, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

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Unsourced stuff in 'Religious Heritage' section

JayB91, you can't keep re adding unsourced content citing expansion of article as you did here. Not to mention WP:NOTADIRECTORY which doesn't allow this kind of listing. We are supposed to keep the notable ones having articles or atleast entries supported by references. Pinging @Arjayay: - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:20, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

And you can't keep removing the content without any explanation as to how you are improving the page. Please read the WP:NOTADIRECTORY, no where it is mentioned for any alphabetical order you seem to be continuously adding instead of the hisotrical/culturally significant order arrangement the names were in. See Jerusalem#Religious significance. As I said the section needs to arranged into paragrpah. So instead of annihilating the section just add expand tags till someone expands the section.JayB91 (talk) 06:11, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

I can very well keep removing unsourced stuff. And you don't seem to be converting this list into prose either. Two of your edits were only about re inclusion of unsourced entries into the list. Addition of unsourced content is against our policy. My point is if we have a list, we should maintain an alphabetical order per norm. And secondly, even if we have a prose, there's no room for unsourced content. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 15:12, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

Vrindavan Temples should be mentioned

Removal of Vrindavan Temples from this page is not constructive. They all are part of Brij Bhoomi circuit. A paragraph in religious heritage section mentioning like "Notables Temples in and around Mathura are.." should be included mentioning notable Vrindavan and Govardhan Temples.117.205.193.12 (talk) 12:23, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

No reason to add redundant content everywhere, it will hog up space unnecessarily. Vrindavan has a separate article, so it is better to have those in that article. Besides, the 'Mathura district' article has it all. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:04, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia has enough space for listing., and a current pilgrimage circuit is certainly not redundant. I have said before it is integral part of Vrindawan-Mathura Brij Bhoomi pilgrimage and should be included.117.205.194.133 (talk) 16:09, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Prilgrimage circuit? Are we here to help people plan their pilgrimage? Wikipedia is certainly not a travel guide. There is simply no reason to add redundant religious sites in multiple articles. We can however merge all the religion specific things in a single article, probably in Brij Bhoomi circuit or the Mathura district article (which already has it). Mathura or Vrindavan are not only religious sites. There are things like demography, administration, infrastructure, economy etc which are inportant. Better to treat them as any other city/town and mention only the sites that are specifically located in the settlement. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:14, 13 September 2019 (UTC)