Author Topic: The 90% keyboard layout. (Read 24915 times)

franklima260 · « **on:** Fri, 02 May 2014, 01:05:33 »

I would like to propose a new keyboard layout standard. The 90% keyboard! Everything you need and and nothing you don't!

So what is the 90% keyboard you ask well its the just like a 10 keyless or 80% keyboard but instead of the arrow keys and insert cluster you get a spreadsheet shredding, mathematizing and all together way cooler number pad:

Not my picture just using it illustrate the point.

I have a pair of 90% keyboard and wanted to give y'all a quick run down on the two keyboards.

First up the CM Storm QuickFire TK:
I picked up my CM Storm QuickFire TK (CMSQTK? CMSTK? CMTK?) not long ago from Amazon for about ~$100 and almost a month of waiting, woo back orders.
The moment I picked up the CMTK I could feel the construction quality and the raw mass of the plate that the switches are mounted to. The key caps are Laser etched ABS and have this quasi rubberized finish that feel fine until they don't (for me about every 25 keystrokes) then it just feels really odd. The keys feel almost like slowly licking window as the keys cling to your fingers and release repeatedly.
The CMTK only other weakness lack of dedicated delete button making the venerable Ctrl + Alt + Del a bit annoying.

As compared to a full size keyboard:

Second up to the "Adesso Compact Mechanical Keyboard" or ACMK? I got the ACMK at Micro Center for ~$80 and no waiting.
I will make this short and sweet the keycaps feel cheap and plate seems seems to be made of paper.
But.... the layout and key placement and Insert cluster conveniently placed right above the number pad is just perfect. The layout is absolutely perfect full stop.
As compared to the CMTK:

As compared to a full size keyboard:

Thanks, Frank

metalliqaz · « **Reply #1 on:** Fri, 02 May 2014, 07:32:18 »

Plum made one. It was called the Plum98 or something like that

CPTBadAss · « **Reply #2 on:** Fri, 02 May 2014, 07:38:03 »

Hm, I liked the TK layout but I think it could be improved on. That print screen, scroll lock, pause cluster could be omitted IMO.

And I like that squished 1800 style layout that Adesso board has.

metalliqaz · « **Reply #3 on:** Fri, 02 May 2014, 07:56:25 »

Quote from: metalliqaz on Fri, 02 May 2014, 07:32:18

Plum made one. It was called the Plum98 or something like that

Oops I meant Plum 96

Zombly · « **Reply #4 on:** Fri, 02 May 2014, 09:07:52 »

This is my favourite, the lightsaver V1. <3

Premonition · « **Reply #5 on:** Fri, 02 May 2014, 09:49:43 »

Quote from: CPTBadAss on Fri, 02 May 2014, 07:38:03

Hm, I liked the TK layout but I think it could be improved on. That print screen, scroll lock, pause cluster could be omitted IMO.

And I like that squished 1800 style layout that Adesso board has.

Somehow it doesn't seem to get much love, but I like how easy it is to reach the navigation keys, and it makes me miss it on TKL or full-size boards.

Oobly · « **Reply #6 on:** Fri, 02 May 2014, 12:32:33 »

I tried this layout with a Roccat Arvo and while I liked the compactness, I didn't like the edit cluster being one row too low and the horrible key feel (but that's just the particular board and nothing to do with the layout as such).

I prefer TKL. Everything is exactly where my fingers expect it to be, plus it's one column narrower.

davkol · « **Reply #7 on:** Fri, 02 May 2014, 13:11:05 »

...or the Tt eSports Meka monstrosity.

FoxWolf1 · « **Reply #8 on:** Fri, 02 May 2014, 13:11:18 »

Let's have more pictures!

TT Meka:

Plum 96:

Plum 89:

Plum 86:

Jaki JD002:

G80-1865:

Now personally, I think the versions with arrow keys that are separate from the number pad are better than ones with arrow keys integrated into the number pad. I think people will agree after repeating a short experiment.

Start by finding a full-size keyboard. Load up a spreadsheet program. Now, when entering data into the spreadsheet, don't just go straight down a column, but enter data all over the spreadsheet, going in all four directions, sometimes going back to fix an imagined "mistake" in a previous cell, changing columns often. Do this experiment in two different ways: first using only the arrows and navigation keys that are built into the numpad, toggling num lock on and off over and over to switch between entering numbers and navigating; second, leaving the number pad in number mode, and using the dedicated arrow keys to navigate, either with your other hand or with your thumb. You will find that the second way is much faster and much more comfortable.

What this shows is that making best use of a number pad requires separate arrow keys-- and if you didn't care about entering lots of numbers, a layout like this would be pointless for you in the first place, so we'll assume that you do. I don't think the CMTK/Plum-96 solution is very good, because turning on numlock for that layout takes away the usual mechanism for using your available (left) hand, or your right thumb, to quickly and precisely direct where all those numbers that you are entering wind up going. On the other hand, the variants that preserve the arrow keys may deliver good compactness while still having a decent configuration for working with numbers.

dorkvader · « **Reply #9 on:** Fri, 02 May 2014, 19:14:13 »

y'all forgot the lightsaver. I use numlock almost as often as spacebar. I don't need any navcluster!

anyway, spacing aside, my current KB is the same as in the OP. It's a great layout and leaves room on one side for an ergodox gamepad, and on the other for mouse /trackball

Oobly · « **Reply #10 on:** Sat, 03 May 2014, 12:17:52 »

Pic of the Roccat Arvo:

IT was fine for gaming, I really liked the thumb keys below the space bar. They'd work nicely for a board that has a Trackpoint, actually, better than the Tex implementation using MX switches.

I forgot to add, I don't enter large numbers of... numbers in rapid succession, so I don't need a numpad. TKL is better for me due to the fact that I use the arrow keys and edit keys a lot, but enter numbers happily with the number row at the top of the alphas. I'm usually entering numbers in combination with symbols and text, so it works best like that with less hand movement.

That said, I'm falling in love with the layout of my KBT Pure. Best coding layout of any 60% IMHO. Arrows, Home and End are in sensible places and with left WinKey mapped to Fn I can edit almost as comfortably as on a TKL and I've only been using the Pure for work a short while.

Daniel Beardsmore · « **Reply #11 on:** Sat, 03 May 2014, 20:48:41 »

Quote from: franklima260 on Fri, 02 May 2014, 01:05:33

Everything you need and and nothing you don't!

Does anyone ever use scroll lock?

dorkvader · « **Reply #12 on:** Sat, 03 May 2014, 20:51:03 »

Quote from: Daniel Beardsmore on Sat, 03 May 2014, 20:48:41

Quote from: franklima260 on Fri, 02 May 2014, 01:05:33
Everything you need and and nothing you don't!

Does anyone ever use scroll lock?

I used to use it every day with the KVM we had in the server room.

At home, it makes a great key for lots of purposes.

Now, using it as an actual "scroll lock". I do use it sometimes in Microsoft Office at work, and I plan to make it a toggleable switch to do in linux what middleclick does in windows. It's a handy feature, and naming it "scroll lock" makes sense.

Daniel Beardsmore · « **Reply #13 on:** Sun, 04 May 2014, 09:30:37 »

There's always one!

Johan · « **Reply #14 on:** Sun, 04 May 2014, 11:18:11 »

Does anyone know where I can find a plum 89 or 86?

franklima260 · « **Reply #15 on:** Sun, 04 May 2014, 12:59:11 »

The plum 96 looks great! I just wish I could fine one for sale with blue or clear cherries.

vivalarevolución · « **Reply #16 on:** Sun, 04 May 2014, 16:33:48 »

I thought the Plum 96 might have gone out of production. I remember that being available when I first got into the keyboard game in 2012, but have not seen it available in awhile.

karazi · « **Reply #17 on:** Sun, 04 May 2014, 17:09:18 »

The Plum 89 would be perfect for me (dedicated arrow keys ftw), except I need the menu key! The g80-18xx seemed best for me, but the pg up/dn home/end cluster is kind of far away. I like how it is integrated in the Plum 89, as fn layer for arrow keys, that is pretty intuitive. But no menu key...I use that heavily during spreadsheeting. What is the solution?

IvanIvanovich · « **Reply #18 on:** Mon, 05 May 2014, 11:31:08 »

Found another one... Access IS AKC127-K4 (or maybe it's disqualified for having an extra function row on top?)

I really still want to get something like a 90%, but none of them are just right for me so far...

davkol · « **Reply #19 on:** Mon, 05 May 2014, 11:43:06 »

I've recently found this:

Any idea what's that?

eth0s · « **Reply #20 on:** Mon, 05 May 2014, 11:46:29 »

Quote from: davkol on Mon, 05 May 2014, 11:43:06

I've recently found this:

Show Image

Any idea what's that?

That's either a Cherry G8X-18XX or a Cherry rip-off. You could show us the switches, caps, and rear sticker, which would help.

davkol · « **Reply #21 on:** Mon, 05 May 2014, 12:03:15 »

edit: it's Costar CSK-2101N

karazi · « **Reply #22 on:** Mon, 05 May 2014, 18:30:56 »

Quote from: karazi on Sun, 04 May 2014, 17:09:18

The g80-18xx seemed best for me, but the pg up/dn home/end cluster is kind of far away.

Rather than me assuming, can anyone chime in how the g80-1865 type keyboards fare for spreadsheet manipulation and programming? I use arrows and pg up/pg dn/home/end heavily to navigate and do a lot of alt and ctrl shortcuts. Anyone have issues with the small alt and ctrl keys, or with the distance of pg up/pg dn/home/end cluster? Otherwise it looks like an effective keyboard.

Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Mon, 05 May 2014, 11:31:08

Found another one... Access IS AKC127-K4 (or maybe it's disqualified for having an extra function row on top?)
Show Image

I really still want to get something like a 90%, but none of them are just right for me so far...
(Attachment Link)

Really cool stuff that company has. Wonder if they sell direct to end customer. Perhaps get a GB going on something interesting?

http://www.access-is.com/pdf/AKC_Programmable_POS_Keyboards.pdf

dorkvader · « **Reply #23 on:** Mon, 05 May 2014, 20:30:52 »

Quote from: karazi on Mon, 05 May 2014, 18:30:56

Quote from: karazi on Sun, 04 May 2014, 17:09:18
The g80-18xx seemed best for me, but the pg up/dn home/end cluster is kind of far away.

Rather than me assuming, can anyone chime in how the g80-1865 type keyboards fare for spreadsheet manipulation and programming? I use arrows and pg up/pg dn/home/end heavily to navigate and do a lot of alt and ctrl shortcuts. Anyone have issues with the small alt and ctrl keys, or with the distance of pg up/pg dn/home/end cluster? Otherwise it looks like an effective keyboard.

Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Mon, 05 May 2014, 11:31:08
Found another one... Access IS AKC127-K4 (or maybe it's disqualified for having an extra function row on top?)
Show Image

I really still want to get something like a 90%, but none of them are just right for me so far...
(Attachment Link)

Really cool stuff that company has. Wonder if they sell direct to end customer. Perhaps get a GB going on something interesting?

http://www.access-is.com/pdf/AKC_Programmable_POS_Keyboards.pdf

access will sell to us, but only if we hit MOQ 10 and it's expensive.

They are one of the better keyboard brands. I think I only like tipro (sometimes) and TG3 more for MX stuff. It's usually best to check for used stuff on ebay (or ebay.co.uk)

franklima260 · « **Reply #24 on:** Fri, 09 May 2014, 01:28:22 »

For the worst 90% keyboard I have ever used I give you the Razer Strarcraft II Marauder:

Quardah · « **Reply #25 on:** Fri, 09 May 2014, 14:27:53 »

Quote from: franklima260 on Fri, 02 May 2014, 01:05:33

I would like to propose a new keyboard layout standard. The 90% keyboard! Everything you need and and nothing you don't!

So what is the 90% keyboard you ask well its the just like a 10 keyless or 80% keyboard but instead of the arrow keys and insert cluster you get a spreadsheet shredding, mathematizing and all together way cooler number pad:

Show Image

Not my picture just using it illustrate the point.

I have a pair of 90% keyboard and wanted to give y'all a quick run down on the two keyboards.

First up the CM Storm QuickFire TK:
I picked up my CM Storm QuickFire TK (CMSQTK? CMSTK? CMTK?) not long ago from Amazon for about ~$100 and almost a month of waiting, woo back orders.
The moment I picked up the CMTK I could feel the construction quality and the raw mass of the plate that the switches are mounted to. The key caps are Laser etched ABS and have this quasi rubberized finish that feel fine until they don't (for me about every 25 keystrokes) then it just feels really odd. The keys feel almost like slowly licking window as the keys cling to your fingers and release repeatedly.
The CMTK only other weakness lack of dedicated delete button making the venerable Ctrl + Alt + Del a bit annoying.
Show Image

As compared to a full size keyboard:
Show Image

Second up to the "Adesso Compact Mechanical Keyboard" or ACMK? I got the ACMK at Micro Center for ~$80 and no waiting.
I will make this short and sweet the keycaps feel cheap and plate seems seems to be made of paper.
But.... the layout and key placement and Insert cluster conveniently placed right above the number pad is just perfect. The layout is absolutely perfect full stop.
As compared to the CMTK:
Show Image

As compared to a full size keyboard:
Show Image

Thanks, Frank

The TKL really sets a new standard in my personnal opinion. It's the best trade off between a fullsize and spacesaving, because it offers everything a standard fullsize offers but binded into the numbpad. Only thing i might say dissapoints me is that they are ABS keycaps, but everything has its flaws i guess.

Really nice pictures you have there maybe you wouldn't mind posting some other ones. A good friend of mine wants to buy a CM board but cannot decide between the different models, and i'm hoping to help his mind falls into the good choice.

TL;DR : Please post some more gorgeous pictures of your little baby.

slickmamba · « **Reply #26 on:** Fri, 09 May 2014, 16:35:10 »

I have the CMTK brown switch with the white LEDs. It is solidly built and the backlighting is pretty damn nice.

franklima260 · « **Reply #27 on:** Wed, 14 May 2014, 12:48:31 »

I just ran across this interest check for what is likely the most ideal 90% board:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57948.0

Doesntknowwhattosay · « **Reply #28 on:** Wed, 14 May 2014, 14:15:01 »

Quote from: franklima260 on Wed, 14 May 2014, 12:48:31

I just ran across this interest check for what is likely the most ideal 90% board:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57948.0

I don't think it'd be considered a 90% without the f-row.

Quardah · « **Reply #29 on:** Wed, 14 May 2014, 14:52:00 »

Quote from: Doesntknowwhattosay on Wed, 14 May 2014, 14:15:01

Quote from: franklima260 on Wed, 14 May 2014, 12:48:31
I just ran across this interest check for what is likely the most ideal 90% board:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57948.0

I don't think it'd be considered a 90% without the f-row.

Indeed but if the F-row is bound to FN functions just like on the Poker 2 it doesn't really matter. The most important point about this kind of keyboard is having a main typing field with a numpad straight to its right.

I would even say it's better off without the stupid F-row. F-row makes the board way longer vertically while when bound to FN functions they can simple be removed for the little times they are used with newer operating systems (aka Windows). Smaller vertically boards and longer horizontally is better imo (imo = not the ultimate truth, just my toughts)

James35 · « **Reply #30 on:** Wed, 14 May 2014, 15:20:00 »

I'm surprised there is no spacing between the numpad and main keys. To me, I like to have the spacing so I can feel where my hand is at without looking down. It's too bad too, because it had potential for me. If it had the spacing and the F row, I would have been all over it.

Plum MX 96 is still my favorite layout. I can't find any for sale. I've placed 2 orders on Taobao, but they have been sitting there for weeks. Plum 96 backlit, with customizable firmware would be close to perfection for me.

franklima260 · « **Reply #31 on:** Wed, 14 May 2014, 19:09:21 »

Personally I don't care about the spacing between the numpad and the main keyboard as I index off the outside of the keyboard and any having no space makes the keyboard look cooler/l33t

franklima260 · « **Reply #32 on:** Mon, 09 March 2015, 17:52:53 »

Hi again everyone! I just got the Plum MX96 in cherry browns. I like the overall feel of the keyboard but it definitely could use some better keycaps. I am a fan of the special key location above the number pad. It has the core issue of most of the 90% keyboards in that it does not have dedicated arrow keys. The Fn WASD → Arrow key custer definitely helps but is still not quite perfect.

More

As of now I would recommend the Adesso Compact Mechanical Keyboard with new keycaps. Followed by the Plum MX96.

0100010 · « **Reply #33 on:** Mon, 09 March 2015, 19:12:15 »

This minor edit to the layout would address both the Delete key and reverse T arrow pack.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/b0561f208c10225c3ecd6782badcc687

Art of Payce · « **Reply #34 on:** Mon, 09 March 2015, 19:31:50 »

Quote from: FoxWolf1 on Fri, 02 May 2014, 13:11:18

Now personally, I think the versions with arrow keys that are separate from the number pad are better than ones with arrow keys integrated into the number pad. I think people will agree after repeating a short experiment.
More
Start by finding a full-size keyboard. Load up a spreadsheet program. Now, when entering data into the spreadsheet, don't just go straight down a column, but enter data all over the spreadsheet, going in all four directions, sometimes going back to fix an imagined "mistake" in a previous cell, changing columns often. Do this experiment in two different ways: first using only the arrows and navigation keys that are built into the numpad, toggling num lock on and off over and over to switch between entering numbers and navigating; second, leaving the number pad in number mode, and using the dedicated arrow keys to navigate, either with your other hand or with your thumb. You will find that the second way is much faster and much more comfortable.

What this shows is that making best use of a number pad requires separate arrow keys-- and if you didn't care about entering lots of numbers, a layout like this would be pointless for you in the first place, so we'll assume that you do. I don't think the CMTK/Plum-96 solution is very good, because turning on numlock for that layout takes away the usual mechanism for using your available (left) hand, or your right thumb, to quickly and precisely direct where all those numbers that you are entering wind up going. On the other hand, the variants that preserve the arrow keys may deliver good compactness while still having a decent configuration for working with numbers.

This is right on for spreadsheet users. I don't play games or code, but I annotate texts in Word and organize my life with Excel. You really need a dedicated navigation cluster for highlighting text, moving between cells, and switching between worksheets. I prefer a dedicated TKL and dedicated numpad to keep both ergonomics and full functionality.

Oobly · « **Reply #35 on:** Tue, 10 March 2015, 06:33:44 »

Quote from: franklima260 on Mon, 09 March 2015, 17:52:53

...it definitely could use some better keycaps....

Better than thick Cherry profile POMs?!?!?! Really? I'll trade you

Apparently the "Morphling" version also has a plate.

davkol · « **Reply #36 on:** Wed, 14 December 2016, 10:36:50 »

Leopold FC980M and FC980C belong here.

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Author Topic: The 90% keyboard layout. (Read 24915 times)