Dogma

Another vote from a cradle Catholic who was not remotely offended by this movie. Not that some of the negatives mentioned by other posters here aren't true -- yes, a lot of the humor is gross, yes, the F-word is overused, yes, its criticism of organized religion is less stinging that you'd expect (though that in itself is a slightly foolish expectation, given that the writer/director is himself an active member of an organized religion). And yes, if you're not Catholic, much of the movie is a little foggy, under-explained, and not very engaging. That last one I definitely agree with; I seriously doubt whether I'd recommend the film to a non-Catholic at all.

But, oh, God, I LOVED it, serious flaws and all! It's a huge chaotic mess with about sixty different trains of thought and philosophy, from the ecstatic to the scatological, slugging it out for dominance, and in its very sloppiness there's a sense of anarchic, exultant wonder I've never seen in a movie before. The only two things like it that I can think of are Thornton Wilder's play "Skin of Our Teeth" and G.K. Chesterton's amazing joyous fever dream of a novel "The Man Who Was Thursday", both of which are works by people who may or may not have faith but who definitely have a good idea. Or several dozen of them, and who just run with them wherever they go. These works are big chaotic messes, but in that way they are mirrors of Creation, the mother of all big chaotic messes. In all these works, just as in the real world, love and joy and beauty and filth and cruelty and despair are constantly tumbling over and bleeding into each other; the one universal rule is that everything is absurd, that the human race is the most absurd thing of all, and that this absurdity can be the catalyst to either suffocating grief or a kind of hilarious wonder.

If you go into "Dogma" expecting a trim and tidy theological comedy of manners, you'll be sorely disappointed. If you're looking for something with the same filthy gorgeous lunacy of existence itself, this is it.

...provided that people care about it.

Only Kevin Smith knows what his real intentions were when he penned the script for "Dogma". I read somewhere that this is a thinly veiled propaganda for catholic church, or Christianity in general.

I don't see it that way at all. First of all, the surface is not thin at all. There are layers and layers of clever gags, dark humor and satire in this ride of pursuit.

The main premise is relatively simple - two rogue (or rejected or whatever) angels live on through present day, still doing what they've been doing throughout the Bible and trying to get back to heaven. Their only way to do it is through a loophole in catholic dogma, which, if exploited, would prove that god is fallible. For that they must be stopped and an earthly creature is recruited for the task. There is little time and thus the pursuit begins. During it various biblical elements come into play through their present-day form.

To some "Dogma" was eternal biblical struggle relived and modernized to better adjust to modern viewers. There are some argument in favor of that view. I'd say that the sheer fact that it's a satire (some poignant moments notwithstanding) and the campiness of realization actually tell the opposite tale. They show how this stuff the legends are made from (and still worshiped) fares when viewed through a prism of real life.

The two archetypal angels may have been prosecutors of evil in the Bible, but in real life they are just two self-righteous angry mass murderers. A biblical monster is in real life just a pile of crap, a dangerous one but crap nevertheless. God may be an infallible, omnipresent, omnipowerful creature in the Bible, but in reality its set of values, rules and powers are more becoming of a pop star than of a being that supposedly created everything. In fact you have to wonder about the power of "god" that has to follow rules.

Other various gags and skits, such as the black apostle (13th one at that), play on a virgin working in an abortion clinic and the other ones only reinforce the sense of unsubtle ridicule. In that regard "Dogma" did and will repel many a religious viewers and stir certain controversy. But its subtle message that the whole story is ultimately meaningless might finally make some people question their beliefs at last.

While both funny and frightening, this film is more than just a comedy with gratuitous violence and (bad)-language. It's a theological reflection...and a call to the Church to focus on things that matter (like living life to the fullest, helping those in need, honoring and respecting all, expecting respect in return) rather than those that don't (like...well, dogma [doctrines/church laws] or any belief that causes us to "draw a line in the sand," condemning to hell or perdition any who disagree with us). As I watched it (the first and all subsequent times), I felt sure that the movie was written by someone who really loves his church -- but is smart and aware enough to recognize its shortcomings, its blindspots, even its failures and hypocrisies. Rather than simply leaving or ignoring or dismissing it, Smith chooses to enter into dialogue with it, using the potent medium of film to do so. One can only hope that the church--not just Roman Catholic but all branches of it-- takes him up on his call to conversation.

Not to be missed in the film, on a lighter note, are the introductory disclaimer and the "Thank Yous" at the end. Smith thanks Elaine Pagels, for God's sake -- who knew anyone in Hollywood read contemporary, feminist theology? What a welcome revelation....

It is not often that you get to see a group of stars that you like in a funny movie that also makes some interesting points.

Matt Damon (The Bourne Ultimatum ), Linda Fiorentino (Unforgettable). Severus Snape, Jay and Silent Bob, Salma Hayek (Frida), George Carlin, and, of course, God (Alanis Morissette), all join to make this irreverent and funny movie.

The premise is so interesting, and the fact that it is set in New Jersey is so appropriate, whether intentional or not. As a recovering Catholic, I remember the teaching of the church that I could basically sin all I want, but if I repent at the end, I will be saved and go to heaven. New Jersey is reputedly the home of many undesirable criminals with vowels on the ends of their names - maybe some of them even relatives of mine - and I know they are predominately Catholic. I am sure they are counting on this "escape clause," just as Loki and Bartleby were counting on the same thing.

Yes, while I was laughing, I was also carefully looking at the images {the golden calf (money) we worship} and listening to the lines. There is a wealth of material in this movie and it was thoroughly enjoyable.

One to see again and again.

"Dogma" isn't the kind of comedy that most people will find themselves holding onto their guts during. It's more the second-long "ha!" kind of comedy.

That simply means Kevin Smith's writing is clever enough to the point where you will be pleasantly shocked by some of the conversations and events of the film and think it all rather amusing and humorous. It's not hilarious, it's just clever and a bit funny.

The premise is rather interesting and surprisingly from a more fantasy-esquire genre than Smith traditionally dabbles with. Loki (Matt Damon) and Bartleby (Ben Affleck) are more or less fallen angels that have found a way back into heaven. They must be stopped or the world will come to a screeching halt, so a seemingly random protagonist named Bethany gets charged by God to stop them. Simple, but the slick, nonchalant approach to religion keeps the satire rampant.

The film does spend a lot of its time explaining itself, which isn't too bad considering Smith keeps the explanations to-the-point and allows the characters to stay interesting in the process. Chris Rock, who plays an apostle, and Alan Rickman, who plays God's messenger/ voice are two of these characters that are both good in the film and Smith has allowed to maintain their character's edge despite lines upon lines of explanation.

Getting from point A to point B and so on is not the film's strength. The physical events that take place are ultimately boring and unexciting. It's the moments along the way, the conversations and the philosophy that come about, that make it successful. Affleck's character raises a lot of interesting religious questions about humanity and his conversation with the protagonist on the train is rather insightful. In general, Smith has used Bethany as a way to keep the viewers skepticism of the plot active in the film. She keeps it from getting preposterous. In general, the whole cast is very talented and their characters well written, which keeps the film interesting.

It's not the funniest or most interesting comedy in terms of plot and the sequence of events, but "Dogma" is a smart concept that ultimately results in a sharp satire and some great thoughts that scrutinize religion in a way that never seems too out of line.