Thrilla in Manila

I loved the documentary When We Were Kings when it came out but it seems that director John Dower didn't like the fact that Ali was rather elevated in that film in the way that he has been for most of the time since his boxing career ended. Certainly for me and most of my generation, Ali is the epitome of the fast-talking sports star, a true character who produced some great fights and this film confirms some of that while also throwing a slightly harsher light on him. It does this by looking specifically at the relationship between Ali and Joe Frazier, the latter of whom still lives in a room behind his gym in a rundown area of Philadelphia.

The similarities in style between this film and We Were Kings (WWWK) are mostly cosmetic things and are mostly good things but the main difference is in the content. The first film focused on the fight lifting up the black community and having such a cultural impact. However this film focuses more on the negative side of Ali's trash talking and the products of this – a brutal fight and buckets of acrimony. The structure of the film builds to the retelling of the fight in the same way as WWWK by focusing on the social consequence and specifics of the build up before getting to a talk-through of the actual fight itself. Here it does a good job of showing the significance of what Ali was saying – attacking Frazier's "blackness", calling him racial names and so on. When I say a good job I mean that it helps the modern viewer understand the impact of his words – specifically the historical context in which these things were said.

I found this fascinating and the only slight downside is that there is nobody really to speak on behalf of the Ali camp and you can tell that the film has been put together with a certain amount of seeking to redress the balance and give a voice to Frazier. With that it mind, and the clear presentation of the "facts", it is hard not to feel for Frazier, who still to this day has a fighter's heart but also a real bitter streak. This is perhaps not particularly palatable to see but the film leaves it there for us to see nonetheless, as it should. The overall presentation is good, with the fight footage well blended with talking heads and plenty of good soundtrack selections. I thought it was a very good idea to have people watching the fight during the film – specifically Frazier himself – as this did produce some interesting moments.

WWWK is the accessible boxing documentary that everyone knows about but this film is equally as good, even if the rather bitter subject matter is not as fun and uplifting as that film. The structure and presentation is good and the makers present a bitter and tense conflict in a way that is engaging and sympathetic. Nobody really comes out of it well but so be it. Could have done with a little more from the Ali camp during the film but this is a minor niggle and it engages easily.

This is the most biased 'documentary' I've ever seen.

I am a big fan of that era of boxing and am particularly fond of Ali and Frazier. Both great men and what a great trilogy of fights. Sadly, this 'documentary' has demeaned a great fight. Any serious boxing fan knows that Ali deservedly won the fight and he tactically outsmarted Frazier. It was a marathon of a fight in very hot conditions, Frazier's only real chance was to knock Ali out.

Boxing is a tough sport and the fighters always trash talk each other to promote the fight. This 'documentary' has magnified Ali's trash talking and over analysed the trash talking.

Only hard core Frazier fans and Ali haters are up-voting this 'documentary'. Or maybe it's people who hate boxing, every boxing fan knows that trash talking goes on to promote the event. After the fight the trash talking stops. Ali actually said in the post match press conference 'he is a great fighter'

Having said all that, the 'documentary' has some very rare footage and is worth a watch just for that. Also, Ferdie Pacheco gives a great analysis and seems to realise early on that the makers were biased. I was going to give 1 star, but due to Ferdie's analysis and the rare footage I'm going to give it 3 stars

2009 Sundance Film Festival In 1975, Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier staged their third and final battle in the capital of the Philippines. Ali, in his infamous promoting of himself and ticket sales, dubbed it "The Thriller in Manilla." They had split their first two fights, and by this time Ali was considered the heavy favorite, with many (including Ali's camp) believing Frazier was washed up. It turned out to be an epic contest, one of the greatest heavyweight bouts of all time. Ali won when Frazier's camp threw in the towel after the 14th round, although witnesses reveal that Ali was perhaps even less able to answer the bell for the 15th round.

Ali went on to become a mythic figure, the public believing his self-proclaimed title "The greatest fighter of all time." Later, stricken by Parkinson's disease, he became universally beloved, virtually worshiped across the globe. In contrast, Joe Frazier has been almost forgotten, the victim of Ali's public insults and degradations, as well as two-out-of-three losses against Ali. The Thriller in Manilla examines the fight and the events leading up to it from Smokin' Joe's perspective. It's a tale that has never really been told, but was commissioned by the BBC and is likely to show on HBO this year.

It's a fascinating story. Frazier at his prime was every bit the match for Ali, as the record shows. Further, the fight in Manilla was so close that it could easily have gone either way. Yet Ali is an icon and Frazier lives in an apartment above his old gym in the roughest section of North Philadelphia.

Director John Dower admitted to the Sundance crowd he approached the film with an agenda—a project sympathetic to Joe and willing to take a few politically incorrect shots at Ali (who , as expected, refused the offer to be involved). Gen X and Y moviegoers unfamiliar with the participants may find the subject matter lacks relevance. But for those of us old enough to remember, this was more than a boxing rivalry, and Thriller in Manilla provides a fascinating perspective into one of the most politically charged athletic events in American history. As the movie accurately depicts, Ali vs. Frazier was ideological warfare—the cocky anti-war Muslim who claimed to speak for Black America against (Ali's words) the ignorant negro Uncle Tom who looked like a gorilla and did the white man's bidding. And unfortunately for Mr. Frazier, Ali made the labels stick. Frazier has never forgiven Ali for that. And he has never recovered from it.

I think the biggest problem with this documentary, and most documentaries on Ali is that he's not in a state to talk about the events himself, so you get a lot of third hand knowledge. This documentary opened my eyes to some things, like how despicable the Nation of Islam was, and how they essentially messed up his career by making him resist the draft to Vietnam and making him think call Frazier an uncle Tom and "the enemy" as Ali puts it. There are some weird clips here, especially the part where Ali is making jokes about being on the same side as the Klu Klux Klan. This is especially strange considering all of the lynchings they performed in the south.

It's hard to say though how much of Ali's taunting were truly of a cruel nature and how much was for publicity, because Ali was brilliant at promotion. This is demonstrated by the fact that his name is worth hundreds of millions of dollars and Frazier is living in a small room above a gym. It could be that the Nation of Islam was filling him with hatred towards Frazier so he would be more motivated to win, after all they were friends in the 60's.

However, the part of this movie that is kind of messed up is how it portrays Frazier as being robbed in Manila. If you watch the fight, you will see that Frazier was clearly being dominated in the 14th round and could no longer defend himself. There are all these third hand accounts on the Frazier side talking about how sad it was and how he could have continued. Well, it's the reason they have trainer's in the corner is that most of the time a fighter doesn't know how close they are to being permanently damaged or killed. Futch knew that Ali was ahead in points anyway, so there was no point. There is a lot of people talking about how Ali wouldn't have gone back out there if Frazier didn't quit. I think this is bunk, if Ali came that far, there's no way he's sitting down in the 15th. He just would have gone out, scored so more points and then collapsed as he did when the fight was called (at that point your mind relinquishes it's control and the body takes over).

Ferdia Percheco comes off as a total jerk in this documentary, calling everybody stupid, including Frazier, who he says he doesn't want to step on. yeah right. At least Frazier had the brains to retire when it was time, instead of Ali who kept going way past his prime.

And as a side note, Larry Holmes can say that Ali was overrated when he fought him in '81 Ali was already washed up and his Parkinsons had already started. That's just pure ignorance.

Anyway, this movie is pretty good, slightly below "Facing Ali" but better than "When we Were Kings". Just take it with a grain of salt.

Several weeks ago, there was a special presentation of this documentary at an event to honor the memory of Smokin' Joe Frazier. Legendary boxing promoter Bob Arum spoke at the function, and although Arum prefaced his remarks by paying homage to the late Joe Frazier, he harshly criticized this documentary, bluntly calling it "disgusting" and an "unfair attack" on Muhammad Ali. However, Arum hit the nail on the head regarding this film, which, as another reviewer on the Web site accurately characterizes, is just "a piece of revisionist propaganda."

There are a slew of inaccuracies, myths, and half-truths presented in this documentary, so much so that if I were to address them all, this review would be the length of a book. However, I would like to dispel several of the most significant myths that this biased documentary perpetuates:

Documentary Myth: During Ali's exile, Joe Frazier nobly helped Ali out by giving him money and diligently lobbying to help Ali get his license reinstated.

Facts: Yes, during Ali's exile from boxing, Frazier would, on occasion, lend money to Ali and even went to great lengths to help Ali get his license back. But he didn't do so for magnanimous reasons, like it's portrayed in this documentary. Joe wanted a mega million dollar fight and knew that a bout with Ali would result in a huge fight payday, given Ali's high name recognition and stature. He facilitated Ali's return to boxing because he perceived Ali as his ticket to Ft. Knox, which is what Ali became. But Joe's "noble" gestures in helping Ali were for his own personal gain, not Ali's welfare.

Documentary Myth: By calling Joe "ugly" or " gorilla," Ali was making racial epithets.

Facts: True, Ali did call Frazier "ugly," but he also called Sonny Liston, Leon Spinks, and Larry Holmes "ugly" during pre-fight stages of his bouts with them as well. (He probably called Liston ugly more times than Frazier. Just view some old footage of everything leading up to the first Liston bout.) In addition to proclaiming to be "The Greatest," Ali would often boast to the press, in a jovial manner, that he was "pretty" and most fighters were "ugly."

It has to be understood that in addition to being a master boxer, Ali was also a master showman and fight promoter. The name calling wasn't meant to serve as personal attacks, and Ali's boasting of his boxing ability and his appearance wasn't conceit, contrary to popular myth. He just used narcissism to promote bouts, a marketing ploy he learned from watching pro wrestlers.

And yes, Ali did call Frazier "The Gorilla" before their third fight. But here again, it was a situation in which Frazier was not singled out because Ali had always created monikers for his opponents as a gimmick to promote fights. He called Frazier "The Gorilla" before their third fight, but he also coined Sonny Liston "The Big Ugly Bear," Floyd Patterson "The Rabbit," George Chuvalo "The Washerwoman," George Foreman "The Mummy," and Ernie Shavers "The Acorn" (a reference to Shaver's bald head).

Given this pattern, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Ali was creating monikers as a promotional gimmick, not as racial taunts. He applied it to many fighters, not just Frazier; it was just that Frazier was the only Ali opponent who spent his entire life whining about it.

Documentary Myth: The Nation of Islam, of which Ali was a member, and the Klu Klux Klan wanted to form a pact and Muhammad Ali spoke at a Klu Klux Klan Rally.

Facts: There's minimal evidence to support this documentary's claim that the KKK and the NOI wanted to collaborate. As for Ali speaking at a Klan rally, there's also no credible evidence to substantiate this assertion, and it most likely never happened. Being that Ali at the time was nothing more than arguably the world's most famous human being, surely news of Ali speaking at such an event would have inevitably leaked to the press. Add to that, the irony of an Afrocentric Muhammad Ali speaking at a rally of white supremacists would have made for such a sensational and controversial news story that virtually every news medium in the world would have reported it, and most likely it would have been a lead story. The long and short of it all is that the media would have had a field day with something like this. Yet there is no film or photographic record of this, nor is there any news report on record of this at all.

The documentary shows a film clip of Ali in an interview supposedly admitting to speaking at a KKK rally. However, the film footage has obviously been edited. Ali was most likely making these remarks as part of a gag. He was always one to clown and joke around, even while being interviewed.

I could go on and on about the myths, biased assertions, and falsehoods perpetuated in this documentary, such as implausible testimonies, a fabricated analysis of the Ali-Frazier fight trilogy, manipulated film footage, and Larry Holmes lying through his teeth by saying that Ali was "overrated" as a fighter even though, ironically, Holmes had always publicly proclaimed that Ali was his idol. But, unfortunately, IMDb imposes a 1,000-word limit for its reviews.

But the bottom line is that the "Thriller in Manila" documentary is, as Bob Arum states, "chock full of inaccuracies and is designed to demean Muhammad Ali" And as he also states, you can watch this documentary if you want, "but don't believe a word that's being said."