markfranh
Joined Jul 2011
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Reviews120
markfranh's rating
An extraordinary production.
If it was a mainstream British series, this would win a shedful of BAFTAs.
If American, it would be up for Emmy's galore.
If Scandanavian, well, it would win pretty much everything they award in Scandanavian if they have awards.
The Oscars obviously are for movies and this is tv series but if they awarded Oscars for tv then best actor co-winners go to the pair that played Mr. Wang and Captain Ma and that's guaranteed. The actor playing Ma's performance in the last 30 minutes or so in the final episode worthy of an award just for that aspect (not saying anything more on that as it would spoil the reveal).
I don't know if they do awards in China but I expect it swept the awards there if there are any.
There's no doubt it can be confusing at times. There are three time lines to follow. The last one is 2016 when three of the major characters from the earlier times are still involved and following up something that happened in 1998 and how it relates to an incident unfolding in 2016. The first time line is 1997 in which we see the lead up to the critical events of 1998 and characters are introduced before their lives fall apart. Then we have 1998 when the key events happen. Jumping back and forth between 1997 and 1998 can be especially confusing as obviously the characters look the same; by 2016, they have aged so you know when you are seeing the modern timeline.
Towards the end of the series, time line 1997 has progressed in leaps and bounds over the many weeks and months and eventually catches up to 1998 when everything comes together and you discover what it was all about as you watched 1998 unfold in the earlier episodes. It all starts to become clear as you put the pieces of the puzzle together.
Finally in the later episodes, what is going on in 2016 also starts to make sense as our trio of older men discover more about the earlier events and more is revealed.
Again, it all eventually starts to tie together.
There is much jumping back and forth between the time lines from episode to episode so that keeps the brain active trying to keep up and remember what happened the last time you saw what was going on in that year. That can be an issue. There are even episodes when a timeline is not shown at all and only picked up in the following episode so you immediately are trying to remember what happened last time you were there in the story.
This is not a series where you can watch one episode and then set it aside and pick it up a week later. You really need to concentrate and remember episode to episode what is going on. I'd suggest 12 consecutive evenings of viewing while setting the rest of your regular programming aside for the duration. Even better, two episodes in one evening as some of the episodes are well under an hour.
One negative was that in the version we watched the English subtitles sometimes didn't stay on the screen long enough. You could get 3/4 of the way through what was on screen and then they moved on to the next sentence so you miss potentially important words. Not always, but annoying when it happened. This was especially true in the first episode (or two) but seemed to improve as the series went on. Didn't help that the Chinese speakers were rapid fire when emotions ran high so the subtitles probably were struggling to keep up. Not the fault of the series ; no doubt it would have been better to speak Chinese to follow everything properly.
There are numerous loose plot threads everywhere as you watch the series (and that's the point) and you do wonder how it all will be tied back up by the end but, amazingly, after finishing it last night and thinking about it this morning, I can honestly say it all warpped up perfectly as far as we could tell. There weren't any of those , "hang on! What about ... That doesn't make sense" moments that are so common these days in so many series.
Would a Western remake of this series work? I wonder. Much of this is about China and the China of the 1990s when the economy was undergoing such rapid change. The coal mines of the UK as they shut down might be one setting if a British remake. The closure of steel mills in the USA possibly? Just throwing out ideas.
Anyway, watch this series.
Magnificent.
If it was a mainstream British series, this would win a shedful of BAFTAs.
If American, it would be up for Emmy's galore.
If Scandanavian, well, it would win pretty much everything they award in Scandanavian if they have awards.
The Oscars obviously are for movies and this is tv series but if they awarded Oscars for tv then best actor co-winners go to the pair that played Mr. Wang and Captain Ma and that's guaranteed. The actor playing Ma's performance in the last 30 minutes or so in the final episode worthy of an award just for that aspect (not saying anything more on that as it would spoil the reveal).
I don't know if they do awards in China but I expect it swept the awards there if there are any.
There's no doubt it can be confusing at times. There are three time lines to follow. The last one is 2016 when three of the major characters from the earlier times are still involved and following up something that happened in 1998 and how it relates to an incident unfolding in 2016. The first time line is 1997 in which we see the lead up to the critical events of 1998 and characters are introduced before their lives fall apart. Then we have 1998 when the key events happen. Jumping back and forth between 1997 and 1998 can be especially confusing as obviously the characters look the same; by 2016, they have aged so you know when you are seeing the modern timeline.
Towards the end of the series, time line 1997 has progressed in leaps and bounds over the many weeks and months and eventually catches up to 1998 when everything comes together and you discover what it was all about as you watched 1998 unfold in the earlier episodes. It all starts to become clear as you put the pieces of the puzzle together.
Finally in the later episodes, what is going on in 2016 also starts to make sense as our trio of older men discover more about the earlier events and more is revealed.
Again, it all eventually starts to tie together.
There is much jumping back and forth between the time lines from episode to episode so that keeps the brain active trying to keep up and remember what happened the last time you saw what was going on in that year. That can be an issue. There are even episodes when a timeline is not shown at all and only picked up in the following episode so you immediately are trying to remember what happened last time you were there in the story.
This is not a series where you can watch one episode and then set it aside and pick it up a week later. You really need to concentrate and remember episode to episode what is going on. I'd suggest 12 consecutive evenings of viewing while setting the rest of your regular programming aside for the duration. Even better, two episodes in one evening as some of the episodes are well under an hour.
One negative was that in the version we watched the English subtitles sometimes didn't stay on the screen long enough. You could get 3/4 of the way through what was on screen and then they moved on to the next sentence so you miss potentially important words. Not always, but annoying when it happened. This was especially true in the first episode (or two) but seemed to improve as the series went on. Didn't help that the Chinese speakers were rapid fire when emotions ran high so the subtitles probably were struggling to keep up. Not the fault of the series ; no doubt it would have been better to speak Chinese to follow everything properly.
There are numerous loose plot threads everywhere as you watch the series (and that's the point) and you do wonder how it all will be tied back up by the end but, amazingly, after finishing it last night and thinking about it this morning, I can honestly say it all warpped up perfectly as far as we could tell. There weren't any of those , "hang on! What about ... That doesn't make sense" moments that are so common these days in so many series.
Would a Western remake of this series work? I wonder. Much of this is about China and the China of the 1990s when the economy was undergoing such rapid change. The coal mines of the UK as they shut down might be one setting if a British remake. The closure of steel mills in the USA possibly? Just throwing out ideas.
Anyway, watch this series.
Magnificent.
If it weren't for the presence of so many big stars in the cast, this would be dismissed by all reviewers as less than mediocre run of the mill disappointing nonsense. I can't understand though why some havestill rated it as high as a 10. Unbelievable. I think my 5 might even be generous and really becaluse of the star appeal.
With one exception, it is the presence of the cast that actually makes this watchable but, nevertheless, really it must have been an embarrassment to those involved. Could these name actors not have shown a bit of judgement is agreeing to this farce of a movie?
The one exception to it being barely watchable is the woeful miscasting of Pierce Brosnan as "Red Ron". One had to cringe. What were they thinking? That a name more readily recognized in the USA than Mirren, Imre, and Kingsley might attract attract more viewers? That's all I could think of. There is no other plausible reason to put Brosnan in this role.
"Red Ron" is an ex-union firebrand who has spent his entire career fighting the bosses and much of it on the picket line. Brosnan? Never. Not plausible. Not even remotely believable. This needed someone the likes of Vinnie Jones, Ray Winston, maybe Tom Hardy. Yes, too young I know. But a bit of makeup etc would have solved that problem. But surely they could have found someone more believable in the role than Brosnan.
"Red Ron" is a "hard man" toughened up by his life's experiences and Brosnan just isn't it. An accent from the coal mines of Yorkshire or the East end of London.
You get the idea.
But that isn't the only problem.
The plot holes are absolutely ridiculous. Were all these in the novel or are they there because of shortcuts in the screenwriting? I don't know because I haven't read the book but they were inexcusable and showed total lack of caring for the story in trying to make this any way believable by the writer.
Yes, I know this is supposed to be light and not taken too seriously but that really is not an excuse for dreadful writing with so many plot holes you could drive an oversized truck used in mining operations in openpit mining in the deserts of Western Australia right through them.
What follows below could be viewed as spoilers so if you don't want to "spoil" your viewing (not that really is possible with what it is), you probably should stop reading here.
If not worried about spoilers and are interested in the numerous ridiculous bits of the plot read on.
***spoilers from this point on***
1) A contractor shows up at a cemetary with diggers prepared to completely destory the cemetary in preperation for development with no consideration to the fact there are bodies buried there. Just dig in with the backhoes and let the bones fly. Seriously? The local council gave planning permission for this? Come on. How stupid are we supposed to be? Two points: a) it's against the law. B) ain't going to happen anywhere in the world.
2) When the diggers are blocked by the protesters, Bodgan begins work in the cemetary with a shovel to show work has commenced and he just happens to randomly choose a spot where a body has been buried ... on top of a coffin. Of all the places in the cemetary he could have showen to just turn over a bit of dirt, he chooses the one spot where a murder victim was buried to hide the body. Of all the cemetaries in the UK, or in the world, he chooses the one where a murder victim has been buried to hide the body on top of a coffin. Come on. We aren't idiots.
3) Even more amazing, the body relates to the cold case the Club was investigating at the start of the movie. Really? What are the odds of that? Amazing.
4) Given all of that, it will come as no surprise to discover that the murderer of the person found buried in the cemetary and who was involved in the case that club was investigating at the start of the movie turns out to be one of the other residents of the rest home. Of course they are. This 50 years after the murder was committed the murderer is in the same rest home as those now looking at the murder and living next to where the body is buried. Wow!
5) The club manage to manipulate the police into assigning the very junior De Freitas to the case on the grounds that Ron will talk only to her. De Freitas who was responsible for the tea until the club intervened. Fine, for the interview only with Ron I'll buy that. But then for the rest of the movie De Freitas becomes Hudson's one and only assistant. Right.... That makes perfect sense. Promoted effectively from junior constable making the tea to the senior detective's personal assistant and confidant at the request of the Thursday Murder Club. Of course he agrees to that. Sure ...... If you buy that then I've got this bridge across the Thames I think you might be interested in buying.
6) The will of the dead contractor states that in the event of his death the redevelopment of the property must continue. Say what??? A) unlikely as who would ever dream of putting that into a will and b) unenforceable in law as any lawyer would know. Ridiculous.
7) Elizabeth and De Freitas track down Bob Tanner in a florist shop. Tanner who is wanted by the police on numerous outstanding charges and who has assumed a new identity in order to evade capture. Does De Freitas arrest Tanner? Does she at least call in backup to make the arrest? Does she at the very least return to the police station to advice senior officers of the location of the criminal so they can make the request of one of the most wanted gangsters in the UK? Of course not. At Elizabeth's request she leaves the room (then why did she come in the first place since she was obviously going to be in the way???) allowing Elizabeth to question Bob and do a deal and that's the end of it.
8) How are these retirees paying for their apartments in this retirement home? The flats are larger than many houses based on what they were showing in a few of the scenes. The NHS isn't paying for it. Sure, maybe Elizabeth has a massive pension from MI6 (really though?) and that covers the cost. But the minister? Where's he getting the money to live there? And the rest of them?
Enough from me. I'm 69 and off to an open house today at a local retirement estate (seriously!) and just hoping to see flats comparable to what were in the movie. Not to mention the Alpacas. If this place today doesn't have Alpacas, I'm not going to be interested. And the archery. They have to have archery. And don'f forget the life models for the art class. Must have those at a minimum.
With one exception, it is the presence of the cast that actually makes this watchable but, nevertheless, really it must have been an embarrassment to those involved. Could these name actors not have shown a bit of judgement is agreeing to this farce of a movie?
The one exception to it being barely watchable is the woeful miscasting of Pierce Brosnan as "Red Ron". One had to cringe. What were they thinking? That a name more readily recognized in the USA than Mirren, Imre, and Kingsley might attract attract more viewers? That's all I could think of. There is no other plausible reason to put Brosnan in this role.
"Red Ron" is an ex-union firebrand who has spent his entire career fighting the bosses and much of it on the picket line. Brosnan? Never. Not plausible. Not even remotely believable. This needed someone the likes of Vinnie Jones, Ray Winston, maybe Tom Hardy. Yes, too young I know. But a bit of makeup etc would have solved that problem. But surely they could have found someone more believable in the role than Brosnan.
"Red Ron" is a "hard man" toughened up by his life's experiences and Brosnan just isn't it. An accent from the coal mines of Yorkshire or the East end of London.
You get the idea.
But that isn't the only problem.
The plot holes are absolutely ridiculous. Were all these in the novel or are they there because of shortcuts in the screenwriting? I don't know because I haven't read the book but they were inexcusable and showed total lack of caring for the story in trying to make this any way believable by the writer.
Yes, I know this is supposed to be light and not taken too seriously but that really is not an excuse for dreadful writing with so many plot holes you could drive an oversized truck used in mining operations in openpit mining in the deserts of Western Australia right through them.
What follows below could be viewed as spoilers so if you don't want to "spoil" your viewing (not that really is possible with what it is), you probably should stop reading here.
If not worried about spoilers and are interested in the numerous ridiculous bits of the plot read on.
***spoilers from this point on***
1) A contractor shows up at a cemetary with diggers prepared to completely destory the cemetary in preperation for development with no consideration to the fact there are bodies buried there. Just dig in with the backhoes and let the bones fly. Seriously? The local council gave planning permission for this? Come on. How stupid are we supposed to be? Two points: a) it's against the law. B) ain't going to happen anywhere in the world.
2) When the diggers are blocked by the protesters, Bodgan begins work in the cemetary with a shovel to show work has commenced and he just happens to randomly choose a spot where a body has been buried ... on top of a coffin. Of all the places in the cemetary he could have showen to just turn over a bit of dirt, he chooses the one spot where a murder victim was buried to hide the body. Of all the cemetaries in the UK, or in the world, he chooses the one where a murder victim has been buried to hide the body on top of a coffin. Come on. We aren't idiots.
3) Even more amazing, the body relates to the cold case the Club was investigating at the start of the movie. Really? What are the odds of that? Amazing.
4) Given all of that, it will come as no surprise to discover that the murderer of the person found buried in the cemetary and who was involved in the case that club was investigating at the start of the movie turns out to be one of the other residents of the rest home. Of course they are. This 50 years after the murder was committed the murderer is in the same rest home as those now looking at the murder and living next to where the body is buried. Wow!
5) The club manage to manipulate the police into assigning the very junior De Freitas to the case on the grounds that Ron will talk only to her. De Freitas who was responsible for the tea until the club intervened. Fine, for the interview only with Ron I'll buy that. But then for the rest of the movie De Freitas becomes Hudson's one and only assistant. Right.... That makes perfect sense. Promoted effectively from junior constable making the tea to the senior detective's personal assistant and confidant at the request of the Thursday Murder Club. Of course he agrees to that. Sure ...... If you buy that then I've got this bridge across the Thames I think you might be interested in buying.
6) The will of the dead contractor states that in the event of his death the redevelopment of the property must continue. Say what??? A) unlikely as who would ever dream of putting that into a will and b) unenforceable in law as any lawyer would know. Ridiculous.
7) Elizabeth and De Freitas track down Bob Tanner in a florist shop. Tanner who is wanted by the police on numerous outstanding charges and who has assumed a new identity in order to evade capture. Does De Freitas arrest Tanner? Does she at least call in backup to make the arrest? Does she at the very least return to the police station to advice senior officers of the location of the criminal so they can make the request of one of the most wanted gangsters in the UK? Of course not. At Elizabeth's request she leaves the room (then why did she come in the first place since she was obviously going to be in the way???) allowing Elizabeth to question Bob and do a deal and that's the end of it.
8) How are these retirees paying for their apartments in this retirement home? The flats are larger than many houses based on what they were showing in a few of the scenes. The NHS isn't paying for it. Sure, maybe Elizabeth has a massive pension from MI6 (really though?) and that covers the cost. But the minister? Where's he getting the money to live there? And the rest of them?
Enough from me. I'm 69 and off to an open house today at a local retirement estate (seriously!) and just hoping to see flats comparable to what were in the movie. Not to mention the Alpacas. If this place today doesn't have Alpacas, I'm not going to be interested. And the archery. They have to have archery. And don'f forget the life models for the art class. Must have those at a minimum.
I suspect we aren't the only ones who watch programmes like Ivalo/Arctic Circle in order to get away from the usual American offerings. Scandi Noir is what we are after and that's why we look for offering likes Ivalo.
Unfortunately, the writers of Ivalo have partially turned their backs on Finland even though series 3 is still set in Ivalo. They've gone full-on American this time.
Theme of this series seems to be related to an American car company (think Tesla) has set up a facility near Ivalo and, of course, in the opening scenes there are a number of deaths related to their new test vehicle. By "a number of deaths" I mean a lot of deaths depicted in the usual American way.
Americans abound in this episode and if that wasn't bad enough the American actors are hardly top of the line actors. None particularly convincing.
Just really disappointing that the writers decided that in order to attract a wider audience they seem to have decided that it was necessary to turn this into a poorly done American shoot-em-up with lots of bodies everywhere type of show. This write down to the point of graphically depicting one of the dead being dipped into an acid bath to be disposed of. Just totally unnecessary.
Not sure at this point if we will be watching episode 2 but just wanted to record how disappointed we were on the direction that is being taken.
Unfortunately, the writers of Ivalo have partially turned their backs on Finland even though series 3 is still set in Ivalo. They've gone full-on American this time.
Theme of this series seems to be related to an American car company (think Tesla) has set up a facility near Ivalo and, of course, in the opening scenes there are a number of deaths related to their new test vehicle. By "a number of deaths" I mean a lot of deaths depicted in the usual American way.
Americans abound in this episode and if that wasn't bad enough the American actors are hardly top of the line actors. None particularly convincing.
Just really disappointing that the writers decided that in order to attract a wider audience they seem to have decided that it was necessary to turn this into a poorly done American shoot-em-up with lots of bodies everywhere type of show. This write down to the point of graphically depicting one of the dead being dipped into an acid bath to be disposed of. Just totally unnecessary.
Not sure at this point if we will be watching episode 2 but just wanted to record how disappointed we were on the direction that is being taken.