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ADD: Home lads Home/Homeward (Cicely Fox Smith)

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WHERE THERE'S REST FOR HORSE AND MAN or HOME LADS HOME

McGrath of Harlow	15 Oct 00 - 05:28 PM
Jeri	23 Sep 01 - 07:32 PM
Keith A of Hertford	24 Sep 01 - 12:17 PM
Jeri	24 Sep 01 - 12:48 PM
Mrrzy	24 Sep 01 - 12:55 PM
Steve in Idaho	24 Sep 01 - 01:24 PM
Jeri	24 Sep 01 - 02:16 PM
Keith A of Hertford	24 Sep 01 - 02:19 PM
Steve in Idaho	24 Sep 01 - 02:27 PM
Jeri	24 Sep 01 - 04:28 PM
Mrs.Duck	25 Sep 01 - 06:59 AM
Keith A of Hertford	30 Sep 01 - 04:35 PM
GUEST,mb in canada	20 Aug 07 - 12:34 AM
GUEST	02 May 14 - 08:23 PM
GUEST,Organisers	20 Apr 15 - 11:12 AM
Joe Offer	12 Jan 16 - 05:18 PM
r.padgett	09 Jul 19 - 02:26 PM
r.padgett	09 Jul 19 - 02:38 PM
r.padgett	10 Jul 19 - 03:05 AM
GUEST	10 Jul 19 - 12:44 PM
FreddyHeadey	20 Sep 22 - 05:38 AM
Monologue John	12 Nov 24 - 05:19 AM
FreddyHeadey	12 Nov 24 - 09:46 AM
r.padgett	14 Nov 24 - 03:07 AM
Charley Noble	14 Nov 24 - 11:40 AM
r.padgett	14 Nov 24 - 01:51 PM
Charley Noble	15 Nov 24 - 10:36 AM

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Subject: Home lads Home
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Oct 00 - 05:28 PM

This is a correction, not an addition - the DT version ofWHERE THERE'S REST FOR HORSE AND MAN or HOME LADS HOME has the lines:

For Dick fell at Givenchy and Prince beside the gun
On that red road to glory a mile or two from Munn

But it should be:

For Dick fell at Givenchy and Prince beside the guns
On that red road to glory a mile or two from Mons

The retreat from Mons being one of first major battles involving the British in 1914. So it is a very evocative place-name.

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Subject: Lyr Add: Homeward^^
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Sep 01 - 07:32 PM

Someone posted somewhere that the words were written by Cicely Fox Smith. I doubted this, but then the same assertion came up in uk.music.folk, so I e-mailed Danny McLeod, who may be the leading authority on C.F. Smith.

He told me the name of the poem was 'Homeward' and it had been written by C.F.S.
It appears in her book of poetry 'Fighting Men' published in 1916, and also was included in her book 'Songs and Chanties 1914-1916' published in 1919 by Elkin Mathews (London) which was a compilation of her works, 'Songs in Sail' (1914), 'Sailor Town' (1914), The Naval Crown'(1915), and 'Fighting Men' (1916).

Danny found and purchased the original manuscript (in her own handwriting) of many of her earlier poems written prior to 1920. This poem is among them.
Danny said he'd talked to Sarah Morgan and that she'd discovered it in the magazine 'This England' (1984) and it had been entitled 'Going Home Together'. The writer had been a soldier, who credited the poem to "anonymous." The first line had been changed, possibly by that soldieer, to be about India, and the horses names were changed, possibly to ones the soldier was familiar with. The second verse is typically used as a chorus in the more well known version of the song.

Per Danny McLeod, here is the poem as it was written. (And many, MANY thanks to Danny for sharing this wealth of information!)

HOMEWARD
Words: C. Fox Smith, Tune: Sarah Morgan

Behind a trench in Flanders, the sun was dropping low,
With tramp and creak and jingle I heard the gun teams go;
And some thing seemed to 'mind me, a-dreaming as I lay,
Of my old Hampshire village at the quiet end of day.

Home, lad, home, all among the corn and clover!
Home, lad, home when the time for work is over!
Oh, there's rest for horse and man when the longest day is done,
And they go home together at setting of the sun!

Brown thatch and gardens blooming with lily and with rose,
And the cool shining river so pleasant where he flows,
Wide fields of oats and barley, and elderflower like foam,
And the sky gold with sunset, and the horses going home!

Old Captain, Prince and Blossom, I see them all so plain,
With tasselled ear-caps nodding along the leafy lane,
There's a bird somewhere calling, and the swallows flying low,
And the lads sitting sideways, and singing as they go.

Well, gone is many a lad now, and many a horse gone too,
Of all the lads and horses in those old fields I new;
There's Dick that died at Cuinchy, and Prince beside the guns,
On the red road of glory, a mile or two from Mons!

Dead lads and shadowy horses --- I see them just the same,
I see them and I know them, and name them each by name,
Going down to shining waters when all the West's aglow,
And the lads sitting sideways and singing as they go.

Home, lad, home . . . with the sunlight on their faces !
Home, lad, home . . . to the quiet happy places!
There's rest for horse and man when the hardest fight is done,
And they go home together at setting of the sun!

^^

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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Home lads Home
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 12:17 PM

Thanks. I never liked the "India" line as it seemed out of place.
Singing as I go,
Keith.

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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Home lads Home
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 12:48 PM

You know, I never noticed it, but it started out in India then all of a sudden was about France. BTW, how does one pronounce "Cuinchy?" Is it "Quenshy?"

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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Home lads Home
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 12:55 PM

If it's French, the CU-before-i-or-e is pronounced K (the U is just there so the C isn't an S), so it'd be KINSHY where the IN is the nasal whiny IN that can't be spelled in English...

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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Home lads Home
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 01:24 PM

Wow - and where would I find the tune? I can't read music but can approximate by looking at the little dots. Maybe a midi? Peace - Steve

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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Home lads Home
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 02:16 PM

MIDI for Home Lads Home / Homeward Please note that although I learned the tune from the singing of Cockersdale, I may have done strange things to it.

(I also did send this to Alan for the Mudcat MIDI page once, but I seem to remember that some electronic monster ate it.)

MMario, if you want to grab it, please do. I'm getting lazy - it's easier to just stick tunes on my personal page.

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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Home lads Home
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 02:19 PM

Funny how Mons got written out. There was a persistent legend of an angel appearing to retreating British troops there in 1914. Mons was recaptured on the last day of the war. In truth the fighting was never more than "a mile or two from Mons" but there was a famous skirmish during the retreat during which hundreds of horses and men were killed which makes that line of the song most poignant.
A clearing of mist suddenly revealed to the attacking Germans some British cavalry and a battery of horse artillery (L Battery RHA) with the men in bivouacs and the horses picketed. The 12 German guns present poured fire in to the dream target causing unimaginable carnage. L Battery was rapidly reduced from 4 guns to one, but this gun kept on firing for an hour against the 12 until no one lived to serve it. Their efforts turned the tide against the attackers.^^
With a tramp and creak and jingle,
Keith.

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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Home lads Home
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 02:27 PM

Thanks - powerful tune - Peace - Steve

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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Home lads Home
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Sep 01 - 04:28 PM

Mrrzy, I'm not sure. I think a c needs one of those little dingleberry things to be an s. (A cedille?) My French-English dictionary has a bunch of "cu" words in which the 'u' is pronounced. For example, cuire (to cook) is pronounced küir. Like "cuisine." Oh well, first time I pronounce it wrong around someone who knows better, I'll find out.

Keith, thanks for the history. I'd never heard any of that before, and it really adds to what is already a powerful song/poem.

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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Home lads Home
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 25 Sep 01 - 06:59 AM

cu in French is pronounced like kw and ch like sh so Cuinchy would be pronounced kwinshy

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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Home lads Home
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 04:35 PM

Freddy who runs the bar at Whittlebury and who had an eventful career as a gunner, has informed me that they still have a battered 13 pounder gun from L Battery's last engagement on display at the Imperial War Museum , London. I saw it years ago and tried phoning them to find out, but they only have an expensive recorded info. service.

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Subject: Re: Home lads Home
From: GUEST,mb in canada
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 12:34 AM

Does anyone have any chords or tabs for this song?
I haven't been able to find any.
Thanks.

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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Home lads Home/Homeward
From: GUEST
Date: 02 May 14 - 08:23 PM

Heard it on Radio 3 In tune yesterday (2 May 2014 at 1805 BST) sung by Belshazzar's Feast. Had to stop the car and find a handkerchief - very moving.

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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Home lads Home/Homeward
From: GUEST,Organisers
Date: 20 Apr 15 - 11:12 AM

Sarah Morgan sadly died in September 2013; she had expected to perform 'Home, Lads, Home' at the commemorative concert for the Celebrating Cicely event on 21 June 2014 (see cicelyfoxsmith.org.uk.). As a tribute to both CFS and Sarah, Moira Craig (Craig Morgan Robson) led it as the concert finale. Standing ovation and not a dry eye. Sarah's explanation of the 'folk process' on the CFS poem 'Homeward', ref Danny McLeod above, is also given in the Celebrating Cicely booklet. The double CD, recording all the CFS pieces performed in the concert is about to be released, see website soon.

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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Home lads Home/Homeward
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Jan 16 - 05:18 PM

Here's the Cockersdale recording:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n9Jx-5_Upg

Mick Ryan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB6YuKQ_K4w

Belshazzar's Feast:

https://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSyTCJguhmY

Riggy Rackin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR-P_ryGVEc

Threelegsoman (with lyrics and chords):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yog55Tl69bI

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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Home lads Home/Homeward
From: r.padgett
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 02:26 PM

v1 Overseas in Flanders (**or Behind a trench in Flanders)~~~

With tramp of feet and jingle, I heard the gun teams:

v2 Brown thatch and gardens blooming~~~~~
The Meon flowing past them, so quiet as it goes (** and the cool shining river so pleasant where he? or she? flows

v3 Oh Captain Boxer traveller I see them also plain
With tassled earflaps nodding all along the leafy lane (**ear~caps)

v4 All those lads and horses ~~(** Off all those lads and horse~~
For Dick fell at Givenchy and Prince beside the gun~~~(** There's Dick that died at Cuinchy and Prince beside the gun
On that long red road to glory a mile or two from Mons

v5 Dead Lads and shadowy horses , I see them all so plain, I see them and I know them and call them each by name, riding down through Swanmore when all the West's a glow, and the lads all sitting sideway's~~~

** Dead lads and shadowy horses ~I see them just the same, I see them and I know them and name them each by name, Going down to shining waters when all the West's aglow and the lads all sitting sideways ~~~

Final chorus
And it's home lads home with the sunset on their faces
Home lads home to those quiet happy places etc ~~~

** from the Complete poetry of Cicely Fox Smith
other amendments as sung by Kings Pond Shanty men

Ray

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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Home lads Home/Homeward
From: r.padgett
Date: 09 Jul 19 - 02:38 PM

Swanmore ~ a rural village in the Meon Valley in Hampshire

River Meon flows through the Meon Valley

Battle of Givenchy ~ 18th ~ 22nd December 1914

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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Home lads Home/Homeward
From: r.padgett
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 03:05 AM

Overseas in Flanders the sun was dropping low With tramp of feet and jingle, I heard the gun-teams go But something seemed to set me, a dreaming as I lay Of my old Hampshire village at the quiet end of day

Chorus 1 And it's home, lads home, all among the corn and clover Home lads home, when the working day is over There'll be rest for horse and man when the longest day is done And we'll all go home together at the setting of the sun

Brown thatch and gardens blooming, with lily and with rose The Meon flowing past them, so quiet as it goes White fields of oats and barley and the elderflower like foam And the sky all gold at sunset and the horses going home

Oh Captain, Boxer, Traveler, I see them all so plain With tasseled earflaps nodding all along the leafy lane Somewhere a bird is calling and the swallow flying low And the lads all sitting sideways and singing as they go

Well gone is many a lad now and many a horse gone too , All those lads and horses from those old fields I knew For Dick fell at Givenchy and Prince beside the gun On that long red road to glory a mile or two from Mons
Dead lads and shadowy horses, I see them all so plain I see them and I know them and I call them each by name Riding down through Swanmore when all the West’s a-glow And the lads all sitting sideways and singing as they go

Final Chorus And it's home, lads, home, with the sunset on their faces Home lads, home to those quiet happy places There’ll be rest for horse and man when the longest day is done And we'll all go home together at the setting of the sun

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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Home lads Home/Homeward
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 12:44 PM

Thanks for that - one of my favourite songs - I love hearing it sung.

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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Home lads Home/Homeward
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 20 Sep 22 - 05:38 AM

Here are some more links

facsimile Fighting Men 1916
https://archive.org/details/fightingme00smituoft/page/48/mode/1up

text from Fighting Men 1916
https://archive.org/stream/fightingme00smituoft/fightingme00smituoft_djvu.txt > p 48

Belshazzar's Feast
https://youtu.be/_YpzsZpwcUA

Paul Sartin 2020
https://m.facebook.com/story/graphql_permalink/?graphql_id=UzpfSTE2NDc2OTYzMzU0ODA2ODo0MDQ1NzM2NDUyMTE4MDE0

pronunciation: Cuinchy ? kwee-an-she
https://forvo.com/word/cuinchy/

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Subject: Lyr Add: Homeward by Ciceley Fox Smith
From: Monologue John
Date: 12 Nov 24 - 05:19 AM

Homeward by Cicely Fox Smith

This started out as a poem and I perform it as a poem I know it is also sung I prefer it as a poem

Behind a trench in Flanders the sun was dropping low,
With tramp, and creak and jingle I heard the gun-teams go;
And something seemed to 'mind me, a-dreaming as I lay,
Of my own old Hampshire village at the quiet end of day.

Brown thatch and gardens blooming with lily and with rose,
And the cool shining river so pleasant where he flows,
Wide fields of oats and barley, and elderflower like foam,
And the sky gold with sunset, and the horses going home!

(Home, lad, home, all among the corn and clover!
Home, lad, home when the time for work is over!
Oh there's rest for horse and man when the longest day is done
And they go home together at setting of the sun!)

Old Captain, Prince and Blossom, I see them all so plain,
With tasseled ear-caps nodding along the leafy lane,
There's a bird somewhere calling, and the swallow flying low,
And the lads sitting sideways, and singing as they go.

Well gone is many a lad now, and many a horse gone too,
Of all those lads and horses in those old fields I knew;
There's Dick that died at Cuinchy and Prince beside the guns
On the red road of glory, a mile or two from Mons!

Dead lads and shadowy horses — I see them just the same,
I see them and I know them, and name them each by name,
Going down to shining waters when all the West's a-glow,
And the lads sitting sideways and singing as they go.

(Home, lad, home . . . with the sunlight on their faces!
Home, lad, home . . . to those quiet happy places!
There's rest for horse and man when the hardest fight is done,
And they go home together at setting of the sun!)

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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Homeward by Ciceley Fox Smith
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 12 Nov 24 - 09:46 AM

discussion
https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=26502#557318

Threads combined. -Joe Offer-

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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Homeward by Ciceley Fox Smith
From: r.padgett
Date: 14 Nov 24 - 03:07 AM

It's good you do it as a poem John! lol

I do sing this one and tells the heroic part that horses gave us in WW1

Many still sing this including Portsmouth Shanty men ~ I do have a changed set of words and one version changed the place of conflict to India I think

Lads or Lad may refer to the horse or the men being carried home after a long day in the summer sun ~ a great tune from "our Sarah" a true devotee to Folk song

Ray

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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Homeward by Ciceley Fox Smith
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Nov 24 - 11:40 AM

Nice to see interest in this poem rise again.

Cheerily,
Charlie Ipcar, co-editor of The Complete Poetry of Cicely Fox Smith

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Subject: RE: ADD: Home lads Home/Homeward (Cicely Fox Smith)
From: r.padgett
Date: 14 Nov 24 - 01:51 PM

difficult to get a copy currently and rather expensive, I found

Ray

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Subject: RE: ADD: Home lads Home/Homeward (Cicely Fox Smith)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 10:36 AM

Ray,

Expensive to print as well, over $30 US. Of course there are over 660 published and previously unpublished poems in the book, not to mention a bit of background research.

It would make more sense to reformat it as a Kindle book but that would take someone quite a bit of work time. Our publisher is not interested in doing that.

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