Showing posts with label Player Character. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Player Character. Show all posts

The Stats of a Dave Arneson Player Character.

Author: DHBoggs / Labels: , , ,

 If you want to find the details for one of the characters that Gary Gygax made and played as a PC, perhaps to use as an NPC in your own game, it isn't terribly difficult. Likewise for the characters of Rob Kuntz, David Megarry Greg Svenson  and others among the early developers and players of D&D.

Perhaps surprisingly though, finding a player character sheet by D&D's co-creator Dave Arneson is not an easy exercise. Sure you can find NPC's and pre-gens Mr Arneson rolled up, but that's about it.

I'm not saying there aren't any which have yet to see the light of day, but at present none are publicly available or even privately circulated to my knowledge. Except maybe one.

 Boot Hill has a list of Fictional Non-Player Characters and their stats. In the second edition (1979) the character creators are anonymous, but by the third edition player names had been attributed to each, and the character of Ben Cartwheel, Rancher is attributed to Arneson.

 Here are the stats:

  Ben Cartwheel (Dave Arneson)

spd

gac

tac

Bravery

exp

st

wpn

bsp

bac

age

Profession

+6

+20

+5

+3/+10

+10

14

FDR  

19

90

30

Rancher

 

 

 

 

 

 

SAR

17

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

R

4

 

 

 

Now I want to point out that we have no way of knowing, as far as I know, if Arneson actually rolled up this character or if someone else did. We also don't know if he actually played the character. I asked David Megarry, who also has a character attributed to him in Boot Hill, and he said that, at least in his case, he didn't remember making the character and thought maybe Brian Blume had made it for him.

All I can say for certain is that this Ben Cartwheel character was attributed to Arneson and may or may not have been made by him. The name is certainly right in Arneson's wheelhouse, so I think the odds are good that it really was Arneson's player character. In any case, unless you are familiar with Boot Hill the stats probably don't mean much to you, but if you are like me, you immediately wonder if they will convert to D&D. Luckily there is a conversion guide published in the 1e AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide. 

Most of the stats don't in fact convert to anythin in D&D because they are derived from Speed (spd) and Bravery. Per the AD&D conversion guide we are told the Strength score stays the same and a method is given for converting Speed (spd) into Dexterity. We also are told to determine the character level by adding 2 to the EXP score and that Rancher would translate to a Fighter. The DMG suggests the Bravery scores can be derived from the wisdom score when converting an AD&D character to Boot Hill but not the reverse - there is no D&D Bravery equivalent. However Arneson's Bravery score is quite high in Boot Hill - the near equivalent of rolling a 17 on 3d6 - and I think we should convert the Bravery score to something, but Wisdom is probably not the best choice - perhaps Constitution or maybe Charisma. Lets go with Constitution for now and see what we have so far for Ben Cartwheel D&D Fighter:


Spd

 

 

Bravery

exp

strength

 

 

 

 

Profession

Dexterity

 

 

Constitution

LEVEL

Strength

 

 

 

 

 

12

 

 

17

12

14

 

 

 

 

Fighter Rancher

That leaves Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma. AD&D suggests the player simply roll for these. That’s a bit of a problem now, but we could potentially steal these score from an NPC Arneson had already created, preferably of similar class and level. Such an NPC can be found in the Pregens he rolled up for the Origins convention in 1977. In fact there is a character that lines up well  - #5, a tenth level lord with the following Stats: Str: 14 Int: 12 Wis: 13 Con: 16  Dex: 12 Chr: 17

Conveniently, this character matches exactly Ben Cartwheel's Strength and Dexterity scores, so this is a good match to fill in the blanks. We could translate the Bravery score of 17 to Charisma, but I like the idea of swapping the stats and giving Ben a 16 Charisma and 17 Constitution so Ben is a little less of a clone of character #5. Also, one of the roles of Bravery in Boot Hill is giving the character a "steady hand" in a gunfight, and that seems more in line with Constitution to me. Here is the result:

Ben Cartwheel                                                                       Level  12 Fighter, Hit Points 60                                                    Str: 14 Int: 12 Wis: 13 Con: 17  Dex: 12 Chr: 16                   


A Character Sheet for Original Blackmoor

Author: DHBoggs / Labels: , ,

People love character sheets.  It occurred to me that it might be fun to make a blank, pre-D&D Blackmoor character sheet with nothing more on it than the sort of information seen on the original character records we have.  It's nothing fancy, but have a gander:




Some explanations:  The entries - Player, Name, Race, Class, Etc. - are all bits of information that can be found on the character sheets of either Dave Megarry or Pete Gaylord.  I didn't put on any entries that don't have at least one example in the original.  There are a number of things that did exist at some point in Arneson's game, but don't have entries on the original players sheets, so don't get mentioned here either.

The categories themselves are, of course, made up to account for the entries.  The original records don't have the word "HEIGHT" written on them, for example, but two of Megarry's characters do have a height listed for the character. 

"ARMOR" can be the type of armor or a number or both.  At some point in 1972, what we would call an "Armor Class" number was added to Megarry's sheets, written inside a little square. Next to the square, another number was written inside a circle.  David remembers the square as an AC number but doesn't remember what the circle number was.  I've come to think the most probable answer is that it was a magic resistance number.  I've simply labeled that "R" to reflect this uncertainty.  

For the "CLASS" entry, it would either be Fighter or Wizard.  

Fighter levels would be named: Mortal or Flunky, Hero, Superhero, or Lord, while Wizards would have numeric levels 1 through 12 (at least).  

PROFESSION is what the character does in life, and most of the professions listed on Megarry's sheets are identical with the D&D specialist hirelings list - hunter, sailor, administrator and so on.  

I've also divided the personality, weapons, and skill lists into separate boxes simply for organizational purposes.

Some things found in Megarry's notebook and in some cases elsewhere, could optionally be added.  These would be a "cash account" listing starting funds, acquisitions, taxes and expenses, an "investments" list, and a  "kill record".

And for your entertainment, I've filled out a sheet using the historic statistics for Pete Gaylord's Wizard, like so:



Melted like cheese on plate armor. ...

Author: DHBoggs / Labels: , , ,

In the First Fantasy Campaign, under the section titled Campaign Map Notes, we find the following, ""Later, the game moved south....  Major border changes occurred when Monson was wiped out....  Significant event included a Nomad attack from the Duchy of Ten that was wiped out by Svenson and the Sniders. A great Peasant revolt that wiped out Monson, badly hurt Nelson and was then wiped out by all the other players. An expedition to the City of the Gods (located in the Desert south of Monson's old place)..." 

Poor Monson.  "Monson" refers to Chuck Monson, and aside from this entry in the FFC, he's not someone we've heard a lot about in regards to Blackmoor.  As his name came up recently in regards to Beyond This Point be Dragons,  I thought someone should remedy that situation.  I'll be doing several posts on what Mr Monson has to say, but we'll start with his introduction.  So here is Chuck Monson, original Blackmoor player, in his own words:



"I lived in Duluth, Minnesota, and played naval miniatures and Avalon Hill games in 1970.  I heard about an open Diplomacy game when I visited the nearest wargame store, The Tin Soldier, about 150 miles from my home.  I gained an invitation to play Diplomacy at the home of Greg Svenson.  There I also met Bill Heaton, another gamer.  Conversation lead to mention of a game club meeting in St. Paul.  

At that meeting, Dave Arneson was in a heated discussion with Randy Hoffa about a game issue.  Later that day I joined in a Dont' Give Up the Ship miniatures game with Mike Carr. I also learned about the next meeting. I was hooked on having a group of gamers in one spot, unlike my one-on-one gaming experiences.  

At a following meeting we played Braunstein, something with a dragon that popped up in the middle of the game.  It was interesting, but a bit confusing. 

Again, another three hour drive to the Twin Cities, this time with the idea that a Napoleonic campaign was formed and that I might join the British team.  Rear Admiral Sir Marmaduke Monson came to be in the battle of Denmark against Richard Snider's Russian fleet and Steve Rocheford's Prussian raiders.  What was different here was the role of personalities rather than fleets or armies as expected.  I rather enjoyed the experience, creating part of the story line from my perspective.  

After that, I became involved in only a couple of Napoleonics games including sacking the Russian Winter Palace, then enjoyed the COTT articles, and the socializing of the other gamers.  What passed from there was an introduction to David's Blackmoor games.  Therein I took up the position of an armored fighter who by lack of luck met with scorched death more than once.  Perhaps it was David's way of testing my resolve, or just a way to humor himself.  I persisted however, and gained acceptance in the group. 

Blackmoor was interesting as players carved out their vested interests on the maps.  Eventually, this led to the Duchy of Ten campaign as noted by Judge's Guild.  I was at Gen Con in the Playboy Club when I was called over to the company table and given a free copy of the publication, just because my name was in there.  Well, it was there.. twice I think... I am not yet digging out my copy from the closet.  Many years later I would use that mention as a ploy to get a better auction price for another person's copy. 

John Snider ran the Egg of Coot; his brother Richard another character; the Great Swenny; Bill and Old Blue (his sword); Rocky and the Temple of the Frog.  Dave Megarry was around somewhere and Bob who lived... at the Snider apartments on Riverside. Doug Hoffman was there a couple of times before he headed off to Anapolis. Blackmoor was fun and instilled a deep passion for role playing games in general.  

Yes, I played in Blackmoor dungeons several times.  Died, died, died.  Melted like cheese on plate armor.  We all noted that more monsters fit into tiny dungeon rooms than anyone thought possible.  Yet we kept on playing...  My characters were always humans.  Always a fighter.

I also was an intermittent visitor at Prof. Barker's home games and played two large Tekumel miniatures games in the Cities.  I remember vainly that my first character I rolled a 99 on appearance and that I named him Mulloch.  Later, in the first game I played, David Sutherland's character sold him off to sexual slavery.  That was the end of his story.  I do remember that in part of the conversation that day, it was mentioned that Bill Hoyt recently had fronted funds ($800?) for the publication costs of some of the Barker game material.  

There was a brief time one summer when I was supposed to be working on an American Civil War game between the Twin Cities gamers and the Lake Geneva gamers.  I remember getting ammonia print (blueprint) copies of the 'official' West Point maps to manage the game (pbem) in background to actual table top play in each locale.  Some aspects of 'generalship' bore RPG feel to them in the story telling, but no character cards, etc.  with details.  

I further played in several games based out of John Snider's apartment covering his Star Empires game, a very long WWII campaign, and later Rocky's Great War variant.  John Snider was a remarkable game manager and a very practical game designer.  Extremely intelligent (degrees in Mathematics, History and Physics (I think), ROTC and graduated in 4 years from the University of Minnesota); later an educator at the Army War College. He had a crowd of gamers at his residence in Riverside, near the UofM campus.  He ran a WWII game (among others) on weekends and I would frequently travel there to play ( the great trek of 150 miles, gas was $0.35 a gallon and freeway speeds were easily 'variable').  

John used a simple military rule set that seemed overwhelming in off-page details which he tracked on a small note book (3x4) each session. The rules were later adapted to a Great War campaign by Rocky (Stephen Rocheford) aka von Rocheford.  Pencil scribblings of the 1970s were used to track data, and each team/player of a nation had a list of units for wargaming purposes -- not table top.  


I played a role (sans character card) managing economic plans for the German team and Rocky was the military role.  One of Rocky's early maneuvers was to assassinate Hitler and become the great marshal of the Army faction leading Germany.  My character was down the hall occupying a toilet when the shooting was over.  Our next mission, as it was, led to the marginalization of the SS units. On the diplomatic front, we grandly shook hands with the Russians (Richard Snider) to gain resources for the Reich, and stayed at arms reach for the rest of the game.  Richard pursued a Near East strategy in Persia while we fought off the British and other allied forces.  We conquered France and ran it pretty much as a Vichy nation.  We supported the Italians across North Africa where the French had retreated (I think Greg Svenson played France).  David Arneson became 'Arnesako' as player for Japan.  (I still have a picture somewhere of David in a kimono).  Fred Funk played the over-the-top British.  One game ploy, carried on independently by Japan and Germany, was to keep the USA neutral for as long as possible.   (I still have copies of the Great War campaign rules which Rocky adapted from John's handouts.)   

The WWII campaigns ran part of every Saturday session for perhaps 2 years or more and these weekends also included campaigns  (with David Arneson and the usual suspects) for Star Empires (written by John Snider and later published by TSR) and I believe a couple of other games, including a fantasy campaign (not a Blackmoor game as I recall; maybe a pre-quell to Richard Snider/Dave Arneson collaboration).  A very active group of about 10 or more persons.  

I played in the Twin Cities on weekends for about five years.  I played in Duluth for about nine years.  When I moved west to Salem, Oregon, in 1980, I continued play at the local club at Stuff 'n' Nonsense out of which I formed my first gaming convention.   

I stopped playing D&D when my local players became power hungry around 3e.  I prefer story telling as opposed to golf carts loaded with magic staves, spare Eyes of Odin, and dimensional windows back to a safe castle-home every evening. I did venture out once in a while, but I was required to fix up a 20th level character to qualify in the local group.   Not my cup of tea.

I have from time to time ventured out in Tekumel, certainly Traveller, and Pathfinder for several years.  I keep tabs on RPG games through the Metro Seattle Gamers club and the Dragonflight Convention, now in its 37th year this month.  

I did meet up with M.A.R. Barker for a semi-private dinner out at a Pacificon Origins in San Mateo.  It was memorable not just because of the contact time, but because Barker politely used his Cantonese to gain entry to the restaurant as it was about to close.  He made quite a good impression on the owner.  How many RPG players think to add a master linguist to their retinue?

David Arneson made it to the Dragonflight Convention (Bellevue, WA) as a guest a few years back.  That's my local convention here in the Northwest.  I helped out as convention manager for about eight years starting in 1980 and the 37th convention happens at the end of this month.  I shall be a guest there.  



David and I chatted for a couple of hours off and on between his duties.  At the banquet meal, we sat together.  He commented at the time 'if they (the others around the table) only knew about the early days".  I replied that many did know, because I told them.  I mentioned that I also had spoken at the first annual dinner of the Wizards of the Coast. My talk had been about my view of the industry revolving around my experiences with Arneson, Barker and others.  Kind of a 'and now for the rest of the story' lecture, encouraging respect of contributors and others responsible for the success of a business.  TSR had a dark reputation in that talk.  David had heard that I had done that." 

The Spanish Royals - Arneson's pre-Blackmoor Character Sheet

Author: DHBoggs / Labels: ,

In their continuing documentary research work (Posted Here), the Secrets of Blackmoor filmakers have found yet another tantalizing clue to Blackmoor history, a character sheet or matrix, if you prefer, for the royal family of Spain, prepared for one of Arneson's iterations of his Napoleonic campaign.  In this instance, Spain was under the control of Dan Nicholson, and the artifact was found among his papers.




You might well wonder why a royal family in a Napoleonics game has a character sheet.  It is obviously not necessary for even soldiers to have character sheets in a wargame, let alone the heads of state, but the gaming going on in Arneson's Twin Cities group wasn't wargaming of the usual sort.  They were developing characters, and developing ways for those characters to be modeled by game statistics.

The idea of assigning characteristic and related statistics to leadership figures wasn't novel.  One could argue even chess does that.  Perhaps a better example from the 1960's is that of well known British wargamer Tony Bath, who developed a system for his Hyborian campaign and made mention of the idea in wargaming publications of the era.

The details of Bath's system weren't published until 2 years after the date of the Spanish Royals sheet, but more significantly, they also functioned in a very different way.  Using a deck of cards. Bath randomly generated different characteristics for different characters, and these he would use in a descriptive fashion to decide how an event might turn out.  For example a character who is the possible suitor of a widowed queen might be described as ugly and jealous among other things, causing his marriage proposal to be rejected.  The whole scheme functioned as  a descriptive aid for Bath to decide how his characters would behave. 

The Spanish Royals in Arneson's scheme are delineated very differently.  There is a fixed set of 5 characteristics each adult character shares (Looks, Brains, Sex, Guts, Health) and a sixth, catch-all Miscellaneous category.  Each of these characteristics is defined by a numerical value generated by a 2d6 roll.  That last bit can be determined mathematically.  The 42 entries sum to 289, giving an average of 6.88 - consistent as expected with the average of a 2d6 roll (7).

Let's take note of this: Arneson has created actual game mechanics applied to personality traits for gaming purposes.  We are used to that for D&D games, but for a Napoleonic campaign in 1971 that's something different indeed.

Some observations:

·         I noted before, HERE when discussing Pete Gaylord's sheet, how the arrangement seems to separate in to three categories - "ability scores", "skills", and "weapons skills.  Ability scores meaning, not actual abilities, but personal characteristics of the sort usual referred to as ability scores in D&D - Intelligence, Wisdom etc.    The Spanish Royals share most of the "abilities" found on Pete Gaylord and Dave Megarry's character sheets.

·         Moreover, the scores for these characters are generated exactly the same way, with the well familiar 2d6 roll.

·         The second (learned skills) and third (weapons) categories aren't present at all.  There's no horsemanship, leadership, or woodcraft, etc.,  nor are their sword and battleaxe, etc. categories. 

·         Order - If we compare the Spanish Royals trait list with that written on the Wizard Gaylord's sheet, the order of the characteristics given to the Spanish Royals is very close to that of Gaylord's character.  The first two characteristics are brains and looks, as on Gaylord's sheet, though the order is reversed,   "credibilty " and "strength" are missing but then we have sex, health and "guts" in exactly the same order. 
-          If we compare the Spanish Royals trait list to Dave Megarry's character lists, (Here) we see the traits are organized entirely differently.  There is no correlation to the order the way there is with Gaylord's.

·         I'd also note that "courage" on Gaylord and Megarry's sheet appears to be a terminology upgrade over "guts" on the Spanish Royals sheet.  

These points further support the idea that Pete Gaylords Sheet pre-dates Dave Megarry's.

However. we also see the "Miscellaneous" category again.  Miscellaneous, as we noted before, was clearly a later addition to Megarry's character sheet and not found on Gaylord's at all.  I presume a likely explanation is that Arneson at first thought that with all the additional categories found on Megarry and Gaylord's character sheets there was no longer a need for a miscellaneous category, but later decided otherwise.

DATING


On page 4 of The Corner of the Table newsleter, Vol III no. 5, we are told about several upcoming events.  Included is this,

"On Saturday May 22, 1971 at 1300 hrs (1 PM) there will be a meeting of the Napoleonic War simulation commanders ALL of whom have been sent invitations for this meeting.  Interested parties are asked not to attend, unless they have been invited, due to space limitations.  Please bring your cards so that we can check off your attendance when you pick up your Campaign Suppliment put out by C.O.T.T.

On Saturday May 22, 1971 a Brown Stein-type game set in the Middle ages will be hold at Dave Arneson's home after the Napoleonic Campaign meeting is completed.  All those attending the Napoleonic meeting are invited to stay for this game."

On the top right hand corner of the Spanish Royals sheet is written: "received May 22, 1971".   

We can confidently conclude then, that Dan Nicholson received his Spanish Royals character sheet at that May 22nd meeting - the very same day Arneson ran what appears to be his second medieval Braunstein.  The previous issue of C.O.T.T. had announced plans for a Medieval Braunstein on April 17 involving a poker game under the troll bridge. These medieval Braunsteins were, of course, nascent manifestation of the game we have come to know as Blackmoor.


Given that Arneson's first known medieval Braunstein occurred a month earlier in April of '71 (shown above, Vol III no. 4), we are faced with the question of whether Arneson first developed similar character sheets for his medieval games, and then transferred the idea to the Napoleonic campaign, or vice versa.   As it stands, the current evidence points to the Napoleonics campaign as the birthplace of the concept.  In either case, this character sheet lies at the root of the D&D character ancestry.  The 2d6 fixed trait scores of Spansih Royals sheet is clearly directly related, and almost certainly directly ancestral to the Blackmoor PC 2d6 fixed "personality" scores which are themselves the direct ancestors of the D&D 3d6 fixed ability scores. 

In the long run, what may prove most important about the Spanish Royals sheet is that it is indicative of both growth and continuity in character focused game play within Dave Arneson's circle of gamers.  The fantasy content was novel in Blackmoor, but the style of character based play in Blackmoor, and even D&D were not new.  Dave Arneson had said several times that "the Role Playing" came first and a number of the original players had expressed identical sentiments, such as when Greg Svenson discussed the transition between Blackmoor and D&D, "I thought it was one and the same thing with what we had already been doing for several years. So, I didn’t really see much of a difference."  (source)



How to Create and Manage a Monster Character.

Author: DHBoggs / Labels: ,


This discussion is a re-think of Arneson's notes from his first fantasy campaign on the topic of monster player characters.  By re-think I mean looking at the general principle rather than the specific formula Arneson gives.

" There is no reason that players cannot be allowed to play as virtually anything, provided they begin relatively weak and work up to the top, i.e. a player wishing to be a Balrog would have to begin as let us say, a "young" one and progress upwards in the usual manner, steps being predetermined by the campaign referee. " Men & Magic, 74:8

In the section Titled "How to Become a Bad Guy" (pg 78 of the 1977 edition, p52 of the 1980) Dave Arneson tells us that the "facts" he's about to give us on "bad guy" monster characters were specifically for "small group...Hero Type" monsters. 

Nothing is said at all regarding large group monsters.

Likely, this is because "large group" monsters - aka "normal" types, need little or no new rules.  They can and should be treated just the same as the "large group" monsters that are already player character types - I'm referring here to elves and dwarves.  Similar, low Hit Die tribal monsters, like orcs and goblins and what have you, can be treated the same as dwarves or humans, more or less, and be played as any of the usual classes you allow. Tweak as you please, but definetly  have non-heroic monsters progress in classes exactly the same as men, or elves, or dwarves.

 It is only heroic type monsters that need special considerations beyond the normal class system.  Those large hit dice creatures - the Balrogs and the trolls and the ogres etc. present a special case.  Here is where Arneson tells us to start:

"...divide all  HD by 1/2 (AC and the rest stays the same). "

At face value, this isn't very practical.  If you want to play a 13 HD Herex (giant insect), as you well might, starting off as a "first level" 6 HD monster is wonky at best, a game wrecker at worst.  We also have to look at this in the light of the original use of the term "Hit Dice" in early Blackmoor, where it meant dice rolled to determine damage after a hit.  If this 1/2 Hit Dice stems from a practice in early Blackmoor, which is possible, it was a very different thing from HD in D&D.

So here's where I want to start throwing out some specifics and just look at the principles. 

If a hero is 4 times the strength of a normal man, then shouldn't a 1st level fantastic "hero-type" monster also be 1/4 the strength of usual monster?  That would mean dividing HD by 4 instead of 2 to get the base, starting HD, and that is certainly far more workable.  Our Herex will now begin life as a 3 HD character.  Powerful compared to a human, but not outrageously so.

Let's look at what Arneson says next.
" To progress to the next level (which in Blackmoor meant getting 50% more HD per level, although our combat system did not really use HD).  To figure out when you got to a higher level, you took the creature's Hit Dice (whatever it was on that level) and AC and multiplied by 1000 for the points needed to progress to 2nd level. After 2nd level, the creature would simply need 50% more points for each subsequent level: 2000, 3.000, 4500, 6,750, etc.  A creature could never become more than ten times as powerful as its 1st level type."

The formula Arneson gives here for XP is problematical.  I won't go into why but the gist of it can be found LINK HERE

It can be made workable if you reverse the AC numbers so 9=2, 8=3, etc., but whether you try to follow this formula to come up with the XP requirements or create them through some other means, what is most important to note here is that Arneson is talking about RACE AS CLASS.

The principle here is that all hero-type, small group, fantasy creatures are a CLASS unto themselves, and each one must be handled separately as a new class by the referee, with its own custom XP chart and its own power progression.

Arneson then tells us, by way of example, to have a look at Richard Snider's dragons found in another section of the FFC. (page 83 in the 77 print)  There are 6 dragon types listed there and each type has 10 levels - apparently a reflection of Arneson's never "ten times more powerful" rule.  Snider's dragons are not meant to be player characters, so there are no experience points given, but it would be easy enough to create an XP table to go along with the dragon level table.

There's not much point in reproducing the dragon stats here, but what we do see in them is an increase in HD, in the damage and range of their breath weapon, in the speed of flight, and in size, with each increase in level.


That progression is all custom designed by Richard Snider, and that's the lesson really.  Any monster, even a dragon can be made into a player character.  For tribal type, low hit die "normal" monsters they can simply progress in the normal classes, but when it is a fantasy creature, a "small group Hero type" the dungeon master will have to design the level progression themselves on a customized basis.

One last point I would make, is that monsters, as Arneson puts it, are "Bad Guys".  These are creatures of Chaos, or at best, neutrality.  Orcs aren't meant to buddy up to dwarves and elves and humans on the side of Law, nor are ogres, hobgoblins, gnolls, - you name it.  If evil monsters are played as evil monster PC's in good fun and true to type, there no issue, but if monsters are turned into "people" your campaign may face some heady ethical issues the next time your PC's burst into a kobold den and start slashing away.  Something you probably down't want to deal with in an elf game. 

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