Collecting Firearms and You

I don't consider myself a firearms expert - not by any stretch of the imagination. If you want expertise on antique and/or collectible guns, there are plenty of other sources out there. I know a little bit more than the average bear about a few particular guns, and one of those is the Ithaca 1911. It's my one and only Grail Gun at the moment; I would gladly trade almost anything in my safe for a correct sample.

I was curious when I got an email from Goose Hillock that they would be listing used handguns online, so I clicked over and saw that they had a listing for an Ithaca. Sure enough, it's a 1911, and listed for $1400 - a pretty fair price if the gun is correct.

"Correct" to a collector means a few things: proper markings (slide, barrel, frame, inspection, ordnance, etc), proper parts (grips, mainspring housing, trigger, hammer, grip safety, etc), and does not necessarily put "overall condition" high on the list. These are things that the average counter ninja at $BoxGunStore isn't going to know to look for.

An "Ithaca Gun Co" slide can be had on Gunbroker for as little as a hundred bucks, and a cheap 1911A1 can be another $500. Put them together and you've got a gun that clearly says "Ithaca" on it, but there's only about $600 worth of investment. Turn around and take it to $BoxGunStore and ask for $1000 trade value; leave with a new AR or what-have-you and you're money ahead, and the store is sitting on a worthless gun.

So, here's a few things to look for - or at least the things that caught my eye.

We'll start with the overall gun:




Looks like a pretty decent gun. Some wear, but that's to be expected with a 65-70 year old gun, right? But a few things jump out...
The trigger:


Ithaca used a knurled trigger face on their 1911s, and it had a fairly significant radius to it. You should be able to see the knurling on the leading edge from that angle. Also, there should NOT be a gap between the trigger and the frame - along the bottom half of the back edge. Additionally, a gun of this age should have much more wear on the sides of the trigger.

In the same photo, above and to the right of the trigger is where the ordnance inspection mark should be stamped. "FJA" was the inspector at the Rochester Ordnance Depot and was responsible for ALL of the Ithaca 1911s. (Cite.) There should also be a "P" under the magazine release - indicating a proof test.

Same photo, note the difference in wear and patina between the slide and frame.

The mainspring housing:


Ithaca used a seven-groove MSH for their 1911s. This one *appears* to be un-grooved; in other words, a replacement. Also note the significant color/patina difference between the MSH and the frame.

The right rear of the frame:


To the left of the grip panel is where the ordnance acceptance stamp (crossed cannons) should be.

The hammer looks ... wrong. Can't quite pin it - perhaps short? - but it's not right, either. Same for the grip safety. Again, finish and patina consistent with the overall gun should be a big clue.

And, last but not least, the serial number:


Government-purchased 1911 serial number ranges are very well documented. Ithaca did not produce ANY in the 400,000 range. On top of that, all the Ithacas should be stamped "US GOVT PROPERTY" immediately under the serial number.

There is a LOT of money in collectible guns - no question about it. If you choose to get into it, arm yourself with knowledge before buying, and take a second set of eyes if you're looking at a large price tag. This Ithaca is stickered at $1400, but the reality is whomever buys it is probably getting a mix-master pot-metal gun with an Ithaca slide slapped on, worth perhaps $4-500.

Caveat Emptor.

Acquisition, disposition

I finally put my C&R license to use. I've been sitting on it for better than six months, and keeping half an eye on classifieds and sales from the usual sources. I didn't want my first purchase as an FFL(03) to be something generic - a Mosin-Nagant or an SKS. It had to be something with style. Additionally, all those pretty 03-eligible handguns? No go in New York. They have to go through an FFL(01).

Last week, a fellow posted an Ithaca Model 37 on the S&W Forum classifieds. Good condition, great price. I sent him a message and snagged it immediately, beating another poster by a whopping two minutes. :-D The serial is 667xxx, dating it to 1957, and comfortably inside the window for a C&R (all guns are automatically considered eligible fifty years from the date of manufacture).

It arrived yesterday afternoon, and was even more than I'd hoped for. The trigger is VERY heavy, but I can run it down to Diamond Gunsmithing for some attention to that. The finish isn't perfect, but it's by no means in bad shape. Looks like once upon a time it may have gotten sprinkled on and not dried off promptly - just a bit of off-color freckling on the receiver. The front bead has been replaced with a fiber optic dot; that will be one of the first things I expect I'll have changed. Either a gold or ivory bead is much more period-appropriate, and pleasing to my own sense of propriety.

I'm definitely looking forward to getting this out on the trap range, and quite possibly out for some upland and small game.




That's the acquisition. Now for the disposition.

I've decided to move along my S&W 242Ti. Yes, I just got it a couple months ago. It's a fine gun, but it's not the right one for me. I've shot it a fair bit, and have found that some combination of the grips and my hand isn't "right". I feel like I'm struggling to get a sight picture, and that's not appropriate for a CCW. So, down the road it goes.

Seven-shot AirLite/Titanium L-frame hammerless, .38+P rated, with a Lobo Gun Leather IWB holster (1.25" and 1.5" loops), 7-shot dump pouch, and Master trigger lock.

It's been carried (by me and others before) and has a bit of character. There is a small ding on the bottom edge of the barrel shroud, picture below. The recoil shield has a wear line from the lock stud, as usual for alloy-frame guns. The finish is a little shiny on a few high points.

Extractor is straight and true. Cylinder is intact. No flame cutting that I can find. Forcing cone is intact, as is the frame. Screws are un-buggered. I had the sideplate off once for a more thorough cleaning immediately after purchase, internals all look good.

$800 shipped/insured FFL-FFL, three-day non-firing inspection, otherwise as-is.

Trades +/- cash will be considered; of particular interest are flat-top AR carbine uppers, mid-grade 1911s, S&W/Ruger/Colt revolvers, or anything from Ithaca Gun.

Please email me with questions/offers, zercool at gmail.