What do you think?
Rate this book
We: Understanding the Psychology of Romantic Love
Provides an illuminating explanation of the origins and meaning of romantic love and shows how a proper understanding of its psychological dynamics can revitalize our most important relationships.
204 pages, Paperback
First published January 1, 1945
About the author
Robert A. Johnson
86 books728 followersRobert A. Johnson is a noted lecturer and Jungian analyst in private practice in San Diego, California. He has studied at the Jung Institute in Switzerland and at the Sri Aurobindo Ashram in India.
Ratings & Reviews
Friends & Following
Create a free account to discover what your friends think of this book!
Community Reviews
Displaying 1 - 30 of 170 reviews
November 15, 2013
this book made me re-think about what love, relationships and companionship mean. He mentioned 'stirring the oatmeal' as a metaphor of human love, and it is absolutely true.
Here's my favourite part of the book :
“Many years ago a wise friend gave me a name for human love. She called it ‘stirring-the-oatmeal” love… Stirring oatmeal is a humble act—not exciting or thrilling. But it symbolizes a relatedness that brings love down to earth. It represents a willingness to share ordinary human life, to find meaning in the simple, unromantic tasks: earning a living, living within a budget, putting out the garbage, feeding the baby in the middle of the night. To ‘stir the oatmeal’ means to find the relatedness, the value, even the beauty, in simple and ordinary things, not to eternally demand a cosmic drama, an entertainment, or an extraordinary intensity in everything.” (p. 195)
Here's my favourite part of the book :
“Many years ago a wise friend gave me a name for human love. She called it ‘stirring-the-oatmeal” love… Stirring oatmeal is a humble act—not exciting or thrilling. But it symbolizes a relatedness that brings love down to earth. It represents a willingness to share ordinary human life, to find meaning in the simple, unromantic tasks: earning a living, living within a budget, putting out the garbage, feeding the baby in the middle of the night. To ‘stir the oatmeal’ means to find the relatedness, the value, even the beauty, in simple and ordinary things, not to eternally demand a cosmic drama, an entertainment, or an extraordinary intensity in everything.” (p. 195)
December 28, 2014
In this re-telling of the myth of Tristan and Iseult, Robert A. Johnson uses Jungian psychology to re-define what love should and can be.
Johnson traces the evolution of romantic love from its Cather/troubador origins in the twelfth century to modern times.
In medieval times, passionate love, in its ecstasy and suffering, was a means for transformation. The passion of love spiritualized the elect in anticipation of the ultimate transformation: Death.
In contrast, through the influence of romantic love that has permeated Western culture, modern man places too much emphasis on anima/animus - the distorted, projected fantasy of a perfect person who complies with all demands and fulfills all dreams and expectations. This projection reaches into all areas of modern life, giving rise to dissatisfaction, boredom, a need for instant gratification, and a misplaced sense of entitlement.
Romance has no room for friendship--romance and friendship are complete opposites. Romance means the use of each other to create passion for its own sake, for the sake of one's own fulfillment, one's own thrills, one's own dreams coming true. Romantic love, in all of its intensities, deteriorates into egotism.
A relationship based on loving Each Other, not "being in love" with a projected ideal, provides the stability and commitment that is lacking in modern culture. Real human love is mature love with realistic expectations of another person. Human love transforms even the most mundane things into a joyful, fulfilling part of life. Relatedness and friendship are the main components of human love. Friends affirm rather than judge, back each other in tough times.
Modern man longs for the transforming experience that gives life meaning and completeness. Johnson advises that instead of placing all expectations on another person, withdraw from projection and consciously take responsibility for becoming a complete person. Be willing to change in spite of the conflict, the self-questioning, the painful uncovering of deceptions. This then can be the ultimate transformation: A new life.
Johnson traces the evolution of romantic love from its Cather/troubador origins in the twelfth century to modern times.
In medieval times, passionate love, in its ecstasy and suffering, was a means for transformation. The passion of love spiritualized the elect in anticipation of the ultimate transformation: Death.
In contrast, through the influence of romantic love that has permeated Western culture, modern man places too much emphasis on anima/animus - the distorted, projected fantasy of a perfect person who complies with all demands and fulfills all dreams and expectations. This projection reaches into all areas of modern life, giving rise to dissatisfaction, boredom, a need for instant gratification, and a misplaced sense of entitlement.
Romance has no room for friendship--romance and friendship are complete opposites. Romance means the use of each other to create passion for its own sake, for the sake of one's own fulfillment, one's own thrills, one's own dreams coming true. Romantic love, in all of its intensities, deteriorates into egotism.
A relationship based on loving Each Other, not "being in love" with a projected ideal, provides the stability and commitment that is lacking in modern culture. Real human love is mature love with realistic expectations of another person. Human love transforms even the most mundane things into a joyful, fulfilling part of life. Relatedness and friendship are the main components of human love. Friends affirm rather than judge, back each other in tough times.
Modern man longs for the transforming experience that gives life meaning and completeness. Johnson advises that instead of placing all expectations on another person, withdraw from projection and consciously take responsibility for becoming a complete person. Be willing to change in spite of the conflict, the self-questioning, the painful uncovering of deceptions. This then can be the ultimate transformation: A new life.
August 25, 2018
يك اثر جذاب ديگر از رابرت جانسون كه به بررسي نحوه ي پيدايش و تحليل روانشناسي عشق رمانتيك بر اساس يك اسطوره ي يوناني پرداخته است .
انتظار انسان امروزي از معشوق و فرافكني انيما و يا آنيموس دروني بر يك انسان فاني منجر به پيدايش انتظارات و روياهاي غير واقعي در مورد عشق رمانتيك شده كه موجب سردرگمي و سرخوردگي انسان در روابطش مي شود
انتظار انسان امروزي از معشوق و فرافكني انيما و يا آنيموس دروني بر يك انسان فاني منجر به پيدايش انتظارات و روياهاي غير واقعي در مورد عشق رمانتيك شده كه موجب سردرگمي و سرخوردگي انسان در روابطش مي شود
September 12, 2009
As I tried to rate this book just now, I hovered over the stars that read "It was okay" and "I liked it," back and forth, for a while. It was okay. And I liked it. I didn't like it nearly as much as I liked Robert Johnson's similarly titled books, He and She. We follows the same structure as the other two books, using a myth to help illustrate a psychological structure. In this case, he attempts to illuminate romantic love through the story of Tristan and Iseulde but he warns us female readers right at the top that he's not really talking about us. Or to us, really - but he explains we might get something out of it anyway. Hmmm. I think I'd forgive him a little more quickly if he'd called this book "He II: He in Love". Or even just adding a word to its current title, making it"Understanding the MALE psychology of romantic love" There, now I like it. And I'll just have to wait til someone writes "WE: Understanding the FEMALE psychology of romantic love."
January 28, 2020
روانشناسی بازاری از نوع باکلاس - بستهشده به ناف یونگ، مسئولیتش هم پای نویسنده!
هدف انسان کامل شدن است. قبلاً با خدا، از قرن دوازدهم هم با عشق رمانتیک؛ یافتن انیما برای مرد/انسانْ کمال زندگی است. نباید معشوق را بعنوان حالت آرمانیشدهی خودمان در نظر بگیریم، که چنین الوهیدیدن یار نهایتا سه-چهار سال بیشتر دوام نمیآورد، بلکه باید با روزمرهی معشوق بعنوان یک انسان عادی مواجه شویم و آن را بپذیریم تا ازدواجمان پایدار بماند - به ترتیب رمانس (که بد است) در برابر عشق واقعی انسانی (که خوب است). باید بهجای شور و حرارات، زندگی را در سادگی جستوجو کنیم. نتیجه اینکه بجای اینکه خود را ولمعطل عشق رمانتیک کنیم و زندگی مادیمان را به فنا دهیم، با زنمان بسازیم، و مثل هندوها بخش نمادین خود را --مستقلانه-- با دین و معنویت تکمیل کنیم.
«ما دلباخته میشویم، باورهایی آرمانی از ��فهوم کمال برای خود میآفرینیم و به مرور زمان طعم یأس و تلخکامی را میچشیم، رنج میبریم و در پی فرافکنیهامان سرگردان میشویم و هر آینه کسی را میجوییم که با تصویر آرمانی دسترسیناپذیرمان همخوانی داشته باشد و بهطور معجزهواری ما را دگرگون و متحول سازد و وقتی دنیای ملکوتی مورد نظرمان را در جایی که جستوجو کردهایم -در یک انسانِ دیگر- نمییابیم دچار رنج میشویم و ورطهی یأس و نومیدی فرومیغلتیم.
اما چنانچه یاد بگیریم با این رنج، خودآگاهانه و داوطلبانه رودررو شویم، بیشبهه از این معامله چیزی نصیبمان خواهد شد، میوهی این رنج دگرگونی خواهد بود. رنجکشیدنِ خودآگاهانه بدین معناست که بتوانیم مرگِ «من» را تاب آوریم، بهطور ارادی و خودآگاهانه فرافکنیهامان را از انسانهای دیگر برگیریم و از کاویدنِ همسرمان برای دستیابی به دنیای ملکوتی دست برداریم و بهجای همهی اینها دنیای درونیمان را بهمنزلهی یک پدیدهی دینی و روانشناختی تلقی کنیم؛ یعنی مسئولیت کشف تمامیتِ وجودی خودمان و پیامدهای ناخودآگاهمان را بر گردن بگیریم و بدین ترتیب الگوهای گذشتهی خودمان را زیر سؤال ببریم - و برای تغییر و دگرگونی مهیا باشیم.»
هدف انسان کامل شدن است. قبلاً با خدا، از قرن دوازدهم هم با عشق رمانتیک؛ یافتن انیما برای مرد/انسانْ کمال زندگی است. نباید معشوق را بعنوان حالت آرمانیشدهی خودمان در نظر بگیریم، که چنین الوهیدیدن یار نهایتا سه-چهار سال بیشتر دوام نمیآورد، بلکه باید با روزمرهی معشوق بعنوان یک انسان عادی مواجه شویم و آن را بپذیریم تا ازدواجمان پایدار بماند - به ترتیب رمانس (که بد است) در برابر عشق واقعی انسانی (که خوب است). باید بهجای شور و حرارات، زندگی را در سادگی جستوجو کنیم. نتیجه اینکه بجای اینکه خود را ولمعطل عشق رمانتیک کنیم و زندگی مادیمان را به فنا دهیم، با زنمان بسازیم، و مثل هندوها بخش نمادین خود را --مستقلانه-- با دین و معنویت تکمیل کنیم.
«ما دلباخته میشویم، باورهایی آرمانی از ��فهوم کمال برای خود میآفرینیم و به مرور زمان طعم یأس و تلخکامی را میچشیم، رنج میبریم و در پی فرافکنیهامان سرگردان میشویم و هر آینه کسی را میجوییم که با تصویر آرمانی دسترسیناپذیرمان همخوانی داشته باشد و بهطور معجزهواری ما را دگرگون و متحول سازد و وقتی دنیای ملکوتی مورد نظرمان را در جایی که جستوجو کردهایم -در یک انسانِ دیگر- نمییابیم دچار رنج میشویم و ورطهی یأس و نومیدی فرومیغلتیم.
اما چنانچه یاد بگیریم با این رنج، خودآگاهانه و داوطلبانه رودررو شویم، بیشبهه از این معامله چیزی نصیبمان خواهد شد، میوهی این رنج دگرگونی خواهد بود. رنجکشیدنِ خودآگاهانه بدین معناست که بتوانیم مرگِ «من» را تاب آوریم، بهطور ارادی و خودآگاهانه فرافکنیهامان را از انسانهای دیگر برگیریم و از کاویدنِ همسرمان برای دستیابی به دنیای ملکوتی دست برداریم و بهجای همهی اینها دنیای درونیمان را بهمنزلهی یک پدیدهی دینی و روانشناختی تلقی کنیم؛ یعنی مسئولیت کشف تمامیتِ وجودی خودمان و پیامدهای ناخودآگاهمان را بر گردن بگیریم و بدین ترتیب الگوهای گذشتهی خودمان را زیر سؤال ببریم - و برای تغییر و دگرگونی مهیا باشیم.»
February 25, 2023
اصلا ازش خوشم نیومد.
فصلهای کتاب به شکل یک در میون افسانهی تریستان و ایزولت رو تعریف میکرد و اون بخش از افسانه رو تحلیل میکرد و به روانشناسی عشق و رومانس و مسائل این حوزه میپرداخت.
بخشی که داستان افسانه رو تعریف میکرد جذاب و خوب بود، اما بخش تحلیلیش با سلیقهی من جور در نمیومد. خیلی اطلاع ندارم ولی فکر میکنم خیلی یونگی بود. و خیلی مسائل رو غیرزمینی و معنوی خوانش میکرد. مثلا نمیتونم به متنی که راجع به عشق باشه و از ترکیب «رقص کیهانی» استفاده کنه اعتماد کنم. انگار عشق در نظر نویسنده یه پیوند باشکوهه که مثل پیچکی در آسمانی پُرپرتو در وجود پرتلالو دو نفر میپیچه و منجر به یگانگیای باستانی میشه. شاید مشکل اصلیم باهاش ایدههای یونگیش بود. مُدلی نیست که من بتونم باهاش ارتباط برقرار کنم. متاسفانه زمان زیادی هم از خوندن نصفه و نیمهی کتاب میگذره و کمتر میتونم مثال بزنم از بخشهایی که نمیتونستم بپذیرمش. اما در نهایت به نظرم کتاب روی زمین نایستاده بود و بیشتر میشد از بخشهای افسانهایش استفاده کرد. شاید هم من خیلی سپر دارم به یونگ و خوانشهای کهنالگویی و معنوی و این سپر باعث میشد نتونم باهاش ارتباط برقرار کنم.
فصلهای کتاب به شکل یک در میون افسانهی تریستان و ایزولت رو تعریف میکرد و اون بخش از افسانه رو تحلیل میکرد و به روانشناسی عشق و رومانس و مسائل این حوزه میپرداخت.
بخشی که داستان افسانه رو تعریف میکرد جذاب و خوب بود، اما بخش تحلیلیش با سلیقهی من جور در نمیومد. خیلی اطلاع ندارم ولی فکر میکنم خیلی یونگی بود. و خیلی مسائل رو غیرزمینی و معنوی خوانش میکرد. مثلا نمیتونم به متنی که راجع به عشق باشه و از ترکیب «رقص کیهانی» استفاده کنه اعتماد کنم. انگار عشق در نظر نویسنده یه پیوند باشکوهه که مثل پیچکی در آسمانی پُرپرتو در وجود پرتلالو دو نفر میپیچه و منجر به یگانگیای باستانی میشه. شاید مشکل اصلیم باهاش ایدههای یونگیش بود. مُدلی نیست که من بتونم باهاش ارتباط برقرار کنم. متاسفانه زمان زیادی هم از خوندن نصفه و نیمهی کتاب میگذره و کمتر میتونم مثال بزنم از بخشهایی که نمیتونستم بپذیرمش. اما در نهایت به نظرم کتاب روی زمین نایستاده بود و بیشتر میشد از بخشهای افسانهایش استفاده کرد. شاید هم من خیلی سپر دارم به یونگ و خوانشهای کهنالگویی و معنوی و این سپر باعث میشد نتونم باهاش ارتباط برقرار کنم.
February 22, 2009
Explains the roots of our modern notion of romantic love and why it's incompatible with everyday life. A bit unpleasant at first, but it offers the way out of the cycle of melodrama I've been living for the past 10-15 years. I call that a happy ending!
In summary, distinguish between the sacred and the ordinary. Have an inner life where you explore and respect the sacred and your own soul, rather than expecting another person to embody that for you. Keep your human relationships humble and down-to-earth: "stirring the oatmeal" love. When you quit trying to mix the two, you lose the drama and the druglike high, but you gain reality.
Favorite quote:
A man who puts anima into his marriage is putting his fantasy into his marriage and turning it into a series of archetypal scenes, a playground for the impersonal forces of the unconscious. His wife, if she is not joining the fantasy, begins to realize that she is not so much a wife as the supporting cast in a gigantic stage play: the cosmic drama that goes on forever in her husband's inner world.
In summary, distinguish between the sacred and the ordinary. Have an inner life where you explore and respect the sacred and your own soul, rather than expecting another person to embody that for you. Keep your human relationships humble and down-to-earth: "stirring the oatmeal" love. When you quit trying to mix the two, you lose the drama and the druglike high, but you gain reality.
Favorite quote:
A man who puts anima into his marriage is putting his fantasy into his marriage and turning it into a series of archetypal scenes, a playground for the impersonal forces of the unconscious. His wife, if she is not joining the fantasy, begins to realize that she is not so much a wife as the supporting cast in a gigantic stage play: the cosmic drama that goes on forever in her husband's inner world.
March 8, 2018
Quotes:
"We often hear a man and woman trying to "settle things" by arguing, criticizing each other, talking logic, poking holes in each other's arguments, splitting hairs. Then they wonder why all the spontaneous feeling of love and warmth has gone out of their marriage or their time together! These kinds of negotiations are always "sword" activity; people are talking sword talk.
The sword can not build relationships: it can't settle anything, it can't bind together. It can only rip apart. If you want to heal your relationship, build relationship, then you must learn to use the language of the harp. You must affirm the other person, express your love and feeling and devotion. This is an absolute law: The harp heals and binds together; the sword wounds and cuts asunder." (30)
"We seek in romantic love to be possessed by our love, to soar to the heights, to find ultimate meaning and fulfillment in our beloved. We seek the feeling of wholeness.
If we ask where else we have looked for these things, there is a startling and troubling answer: religious experience. When we look for something greater than our egos, when we seek a vision of perfection, a sense of inner wholeness and unity, when we strive to rise above the smallness and partialness of personal life to something extraordinary and limitless, this is spiritual aspiration." (52)
"It is because we won't consciously give a place to spiritual aspiration in our modern lives...we aren't consciously interested in wholeness-only in production, control, and power; we don't believe in the spirit-only in what is physical and sexual. But our urge toward the soul finds its way involuntarily into the one place we would never look for it-into the projections, the ideals, the ecstasies and despairs, the passions and strivings, of romantic love." (55)
"But a commitment to passion is not a substitute for commitment to a human being. In our culture we have these two feelings completely confused. We are all committed to being eternally "in love"; and we imagine that this is the same thing as being committed to a person. But the passion fades; the passion migrates to someone else we feel attracted to. If we are committed only to follow where passion leads, then there can be no true loyalty to an individual person...A man is committed to a woman only when he can inwardly affirm that he binds himself to her as an individual and that he will be with her even when he is no longer "in love," even when he and she are no longer afire with passion and he no longer sees in her his ideal of perfection or the reflection of his soul." (103)
"Projections are a law unto themselves. We can manipulate them; we can artificially stimulate them and keep them alive for a certain time. But there always comes a point at which the...spell of the love potion is broken, the projections lift...If a man graduates correctly out of the Forest of Morois, it opens a new world for him. He discovers that there are parts of himself, potentialities and forces, that he can't live out through a woman. He discovers that he can't make woman the carrier of all his unlived life and his unrealized self. He finds that there are things that he must do by himself and for himself: He must have an inner life; he must serve values that have meaning for him; he must have interests and enthusiasms that well out of his own soul, that are not merely spin-offs of his life with woman...
To do this does not hurt his relationship with woman: On the contrary, it makes relationship possible. As he relieves his woman of the burden of carrying his soul for him, it becomes possible for the first time to see her as a woman, to relate to her in her individuality, her specialness, and her humanity. He realizes that she also has to be an individual, must have her own life and her own reason for being. Neither can she project all of herself onto him nor live her life through him nor spend the rest of her life as a foil for his unlived self.
An awesome potential is at stake in this evolution. It is the potential for being fully individual while also relating genuinely to a fellow human being...In becoming aware that there is a part of himself that can't be lived through another person, for which he must take responsibility on his own, he awakens to the unexpected extensity and complexity of his individual self. In turn, as he awakens to his own uniqueness, he becomes capable of relating directly to a woman in her individuality. The test of true individuation is that it include the capacity to relate to another person and to respect him or her as an individual...
When a man realizes that he has been trying to live his life through another person, he usually misses the true implications and jumps to the wrong conclusions. He begins talking about separating from his wife in order to "find himself." He thinks of all the things he hasn't done during their marriage. He wants to have a purpose in life, he wants to realize some goals, for he feels that life is slipping away from him. He wants to go back to school, start a new career, improve himself, go on a diet, go places he has failed to go and do the things he had failed to do.
If he ever looked at these ideals objectively, he could see that he can do most of these things perfectly well within his marriage or his relationship. He doesn't have to invent an either/or proposition: "either my individuation or my marriage." The reason he hasn't done these things is neither that he is married nor that his wife stands in his way. The true reason is that he hasn't had the self-discipline or imagination to do them for himself. He has expected his wife to live his unlived life for him; he has expected her to complete his life and make it whole without his having to help himself. Then on the day when he suddenly realizes that he is incomplete, that he is unfilfilled, that he is doing nothing about his own development, he blames her rather than himself. He says she is "standing in his way," "dragging him down," preventing him from "being himself."
This attitude only perpetuates the cycles of projection...A man who takes this approach usually breaks up his relationship, makes proclamations about how he is going to change his life on his own, and then goes looking for another woman who will solve all his problems and make his life complete-effortlessly. He settles back into his rut of trying to live his unconscious self through a woman; he has changed the woman, but the pattern is the same, and it leads to the same way of life. His "individuality" turns out to be an evasion, a circular path back into the woods. If this man had stayed in his relationship or his marriage and taken responsibility for developing his individuality there, then he could have faced the issue squarely.
Our desperate need is to realize that we need both qualities in life: We need individuality and we also need relationship to a particular person. We can't have one at the expense of the other; no man can be fully and individual unless he is fully related, and his capacity for genuine relatedness grows in proportion as he becomes a complete individual. These two aspects of life are yoked together by a deep and ancient bond, for they are really two sides of the same archetype, two faces of the same reality." (111)
"Iseult, similarly, seems not to be concerned with Tristan's happiness or well-being. She is concerned with whether he is putting her first, whether his allegiance is only to her, whether he will keep up the drama with her that transports her to the "enchanted orchard." Neither of them is concerned with the happiness or well-being or survival of the other but only with renewing their own passion, with being transported to a magical place, with using each other to keep the intense drama going. Finally, at the end, their only concern is to use each other to break free completely from the ordinary earth, to fly to that magical, imaginal world where "great singers sing their songs forever." They do not actually love each other. They use each other as vehicles to have the intense, passionate experiences they long for." (141)
"In those rare moments when we are loving, rather than focused on our own egos, we stop asking what dreams this person is going to fulfill for us, what intense and extraordinary adventures he or she is going to provide." (142)
"Suffering is the inevitable path that must be trod on the way to consciousness, the inevitable price for the transformation we seek. By no means can we escape it; we who try to evade it never succeed; and we are twice unlucky, for we pay the price, anyway, but miss our transformation. There is a terrible and immutable law at work: We only transform when we take our suffering consciously and voluntarily; to attempt to evade only puts us into the karmic cycles that repeat endlessly and produce nothing.
This, then, is why we suffer, and this is why, unconsciously , we even seek to suffer: "Because we long for the branding; because we long to grow aware of what is on fire inside us."
But freedom is give to us to choose who to take our suffering. Most people take it unconsciously. This is why suffering usually seems to lead nowhere, to produce only pain; this is why romance often seems to be a meaningless cycle: We fall in love, we set up our ideal of perfection, and in time, we are bitterly disappointed. We suffer. We follow our projections about, always searching for the one who will match the impossible ideal and will magically give us our transformation. And when we don't find the divine world where we search-in a human being-we suffer; we fall into despair.
But if we take our suffering consciously, voluntarily, then it gives us something in return; it produces the true transformation. To suffer consciously means to live through the "death of the ego," to voluntarily withdraw one's projections from other people, to stop searching for the "divine world" in one's spouse, and instead to find one's own inner life as a psychological and religious act. It means to take responsibility for discovering one's own totality, one's own unconscious possibilities. It means to question one's old patterns-to be willing to change. All of this involves conflict, self-questioning, uncovering duplicities ones would rather not face. It is painful and difficult." (155)
"The soul of a human being is designed, in a sense, to enable him or her to see a different side of the cosmos, to experience a life and a perspective that is wide and vast. The soul can only do what it is designed to do, what is in its nature: It can only lead us toward the infinite." (160)
"My soul is the part of me that strives always to renew my awareness of what is universal, of the great motifs in life that are outside all personal matters and transcend all personal lives yet are common to all...This is why anima puts such a strain on person life: Anima is not interested in the individual idiosyncrasies of my personal daily life-whether my bank account is balanced, whether my relationship with people are clear, whether the lawn is mowed. Her eyes are on the cosmic accounts, balanced in the scales of Libra, where the only issue is my inner wholeness. Her values are not human values but cosmic values; her only interest is whether I live and experience every great theme of human existence that is contained in potential within my being." (161)
"It is difficult for us to imagine what it means to return a part of our lives to "the cathedral." It does not necessarily mean to become involved with an external, collective religion. It does mean to differentiate between what belongs in our external lives and what belongs to the inner self. It means to take something that we have been trying to live through our external relationships and live it, instead, in a quiet, private, inner place-a place that exists only on the level of spirit." (183)
"What is required is not so much an external, collective religion, but an inner experience of the numinous, divine realm that is manifested through the psyche. For such people the religious life, the basilica, is found in the daily hours of solitary meditation, symbolic ritual, active imagination, interaction with images flowing through fantasy, ethical confrontation with the inner "persons" who reveal themselves in our dreams." (186)
"A man's human love desires that a woman become a complete and independent person and encourages her to be herself. Romantic love only affirms what he would like her to be, so that she could be identical to anima. So long as romance rules a man, he affirms a woman only insofar as she is willing to change, so that she may reflect his projected ideal. Romance is never happy with the other person just as he or she is." (196)
"We often hear a man and woman trying to "settle things" by arguing, criticizing each other, talking logic, poking holes in each other's arguments, splitting hairs. Then they wonder why all the spontaneous feeling of love and warmth has gone out of their marriage or their time together! These kinds of negotiations are always "sword" activity; people are talking sword talk.
The sword can not build relationships: it can't settle anything, it can't bind together. It can only rip apart. If you want to heal your relationship, build relationship, then you must learn to use the language of the harp. You must affirm the other person, express your love and feeling and devotion. This is an absolute law: The harp heals and binds together; the sword wounds and cuts asunder." (30)
"We seek in romantic love to be possessed by our love, to soar to the heights, to find ultimate meaning and fulfillment in our beloved. We seek the feeling of wholeness.
If we ask where else we have looked for these things, there is a startling and troubling answer: religious experience. When we look for something greater than our egos, when we seek a vision of perfection, a sense of inner wholeness and unity, when we strive to rise above the smallness and partialness of personal life to something extraordinary and limitless, this is spiritual aspiration." (52)
"It is because we won't consciously give a place to spiritual aspiration in our modern lives...we aren't consciously interested in wholeness-only in production, control, and power; we don't believe in the spirit-only in what is physical and sexual. But our urge toward the soul finds its way involuntarily into the one place we would never look for it-into the projections, the ideals, the ecstasies and despairs, the passions and strivings, of romantic love." (55)
"But a commitment to passion is not a substitute for commitment to a human being. In our culture we have these two feelings completely confused. We are all committed to being eternally "in love"; and we imagine that this is the same thing as being committed to a person. But the passion fades; the passion migrates to someone else we feel attracted to. If we are committed only to follow where passion leads, then there can be no true loyalty to an individual person...A man is committed to a woman only when he can inwardly affirm that he binds himself to her as an individual and that he will be with her even when he is no longer "in love," even when he and she are no longer afire with passion and he no longer sees in her his ideal of perfection or the reflection of his soul." (103)
"Projections are a law unto themselves. We can manipulate them; we can artificially stimulate them and keep them alive for a certain time. But there always comes a point at which the...spell of the love potion is broken, the projections lift...If a man graduates correctly out of the Forest of Morois, it opens a new world for him. He discovers that there are parts of himself, potentialities and forces, that he can't live out through a woman. He discovers that he can't make woman the carrier of all his unlived life and his unrealized self. He finds that there are things that he must do by himself and for himself: He must have an inner life; he must serve values that have meaning for him; he must have interests and enthusiasms that well out of his own soul, that are not merely spin-offs of his life with woman...
To do this does not hurt his relationship with woman: On the contrary, it makes relationship possible. As he relieves his woman of the burden of carrying his soul for him, it becomes possible for the first time to see her as a woman, to relate to her in her individuality, her specialness, and her humanity. He realizes that she also has to be an individual, must have her own life and her own reason for being. Neither can she project all of herself onto him nor live her life through him nor spend the rest of her life as a foil for his unlived self.
An awesome potential is at stake in this evolution. It is the potential for being fully individual while also relating genuinely to a fellow human being...In becoming aware that there is a part of himself that can't be lived through another person, for which he must take responsibility on his own, he awakens to the unexpected extensity and complexity of his individual self. In turn, as he awakens to his own uniqueness, he becomes capable of relating directly to a woman in her individuality. The test of true individuation is that it include the capacity to relate to another person and to respect him or her as an individual...
When a man realizes that he has been trying to live his life through another person, he usually misses the true implications and jumps to the wrong conclusions. He begins talking about separating from his wife in order to "find himself." He thinks of all the things he hasn't done during their marriage. He wants to have a purpose in life, he wants to realize some goals, for he feels that life is slipping away from him. He wants to go back to school, start a new career, improve himself, go on a diet, go places he has failed to go and do the things he had failed to do.
If he ever looked at these ideals objectively, he could see that he can do most of these things perfectly well within his marriage or his relationship. He doesn't have to invent an either/or proposition: "either my individuation or my marriage." The reason he hasn't done these things is neither that he is married nor that his wife stands in his way. The true reason is that he hasn't had the self-discipline or imagination to do them for himself. He has expected his wife to live his unlived life for him; he has expected her to complete his life and make it whole without his having to help himself. Then on the day when he suddenly realizes that he is incomplete, that he is unfilfilled, that he is doing nothing about his own development, he blames her rather than himself. He says she is "standing in his way," "dragging him down," preventing him from "being himself."
This attitude only perpetuates the cycles of projection...A man who takes this approach usually breaks up his relationship, makes proclamations about how he is going to change his life on his own, and then goes looking for another woman who will solve all his problems and make his life complete-effortlessly. He settles back into his rut of trying to live his unconscious self through a woman; he has changed the woman, but the pattern is the same, and it leads to the same way of life. His "individuality" turns out to be an evasion, a circular path back into the woods. If this man had stayed in his relationship or his marriage and taken responsibility for developing his individuality there, then he could have faced the issue squarely.
Our desperate need is to realize that we need both qualities in life: We need individuality and we also need relationship to a particular person. We can't have one at the expense of the other; no man can be fully and individual unless he is fully related, and his capacity for genuine relatedness grows in proportion as he becomes a complete individual. These two aspects of life are yoked together by a deep and ancient bond, for they are really two sides of the same archetype, two faces of the same reality." (111)
"Iseult, similarly, seems not to be concerned with Tristan's happiness or well-being. She is concerned with whether he is putting her first, whether his allegiance is only to her, whether he will keep up the drama with her that transports her to the "enchanted orchard." Neither of them is concerned with the happiness or well-being or survival of the other but only with renewing their own passion, with being transported to a magical place, with using each other to keep the intense drama going. Finally, at the end, their only concern is to use each other to break free completely from the ordinary earth, to fly to that magical, imaginal world where "great singers sing their songs forever." They do not actually love each other. They use each other as vehicles to have the intense, passionate experiences they long for." (141)
"In those rare moments when we are loving, rather than focused on our own egos, we stop asking what dreams this person is going to fulfill for us, what intense and extraordinary adventures he or she is going to provide." (142)
"Suffering is the inevitable path that must be trod on the way to consciousness, the inevitable price for the transformation we seek. By no means can we escape it; we who try to evade it never succeed; and we are twice unlucky, for we pay the price, anyway, but miss our transformation. There is a terrible and immutable law at work: We only transform when we take our suffering consciously and voluntarily; to attempt to evade only puts us into the karmic cycles that repeat endlessly and produce nothing.
This, then, is why we suffer, and this is why, unconsciously , we even seek to suffer: "Because we long for the branding; because we long to grow aware of what is on fire inside us."
But freedom is give to us to choose who to take our suffering. Most people take it unconsciously. This is why suffering usually seems to lead nowhere, to produce only pain; this is why romance often seems to be a meaningless cycle: We fall in love, we set up our ideal of perfection, and in time, we are bitterly disappointed. We suffer. We follow our projections about, always searching for the one who will match the impossible ideal and will magically give us our transformation. And when we don't find the divine world where we search-in a human being-we suffer; we fall into despair.
But if we take our suffering consciously, voluntarily, then it gives us something in return; it produces the true transformation. To suffer consciously means to live through the "death of the ego," to voluntarily withdraw one's projections from other people, to stop searching for the "divine world" in one's spouse, and instead to find one's own inner life as a psychological and religious act. It means to take responsibility for discovering one's own totality, one's own unconscious possibilities. It means to question one's old patterns-to be willing to change. All of this involves conflict, self-questioning, uncovering duplicities ones would rather not face. It is painful and difficult." (155)
"The soul of a human being is designed, in a sense, to enable him or her to see a different side of the cosmos, to experience a life and a perspective that is wide and vast. The soul can only do what it is designed to do, what is in its nature: It can only lead us toward the infinite." (160)
"My soul is the part of me that strives always to renew my awareness of what is universal, of the great motifs in life that are outside all personal matters and transcend all personal lives yet are common to all...This is why anima puts such a strain on person life: Anima is not interested in the individual idiosyncrasies of my personal daily life-whether my bank account is balanced, whether my relationship with people are clear, whether the lawn is mowed. Her eyes are on the cosmic accounts, balanced in the scales of Libra, where the only issue is my inner wholeness. Her values are not human values but cosmic values; her only interest is whether I live and experience every great theme of human existence that is contained in potential within my being." (161)
"It is difficult for us to imagine what it means to return a part of our lives to "the cathedral." It does not necessarily mean to become involved with an external, collective religion. It does mean to differentiate between what belongs in our external lives and what belongs to the inner self. It means to take something that we have been trying to live through our external relationships and live it, instead, in a quiet, private, inner place-a place that exists only on the level of spirit." (183)
"What is required is not so much an external, collective religion, but an inner experience of the numinous, divine realm that is manifested through the psyche. For such people the religious life, the basilica, is found in the daily hours of solitary meditation, symbolic ritual, active imagination, interaction with images flowing through fantasy, ethical confrontation with the inner "persons" who reveal themselves in our dreams." (186)
"A man's human love desires that a woman become a complete and independent person and encourages her to be herself. Romantic love only affirms what he would like her to be, so that she could be identical to anima. So long as romance rules a man, he affirms a woman only insofar as she is willing to change, so that she may reflect his projected ideal. Romance is never happy with the other person just as he or she is." (196)
February 5, 2021
this book is just fine imo. i found the layers and layers of myths and symbolism really murky and difficult to follow after a while - just can’t help but feel like the same points could have been made without all the metaphors. but that’s jungian archetypal psychology for ya i guess! also was kinda rubbed the wrong way by the heteronormativity and binary gender thinking.
other than that stuff, i thought the ideas discussed rang pretty true and were important to consider. basically western “romance” is the projection of the ideal onto the other, and the author suggests that the way to escape this ego trap is to recognize the duality that exists in all human experience - our own spiritual world within us and the real tangible human world. cultivating the inner spiritual world is something the “west” has more or less abandoned (though we’ve begun to cautiously return to it recently i think; this book was written in the 80s). this is the reason we’re so caught up in seeking to be “in love” as the “in love feeling” is the shoddy replacement we’ve found for a rich inner spiritual life.
lol not to write an essay on here but i just wanted to summarize it a bit for my future self. all in all interesting read, but had some complexities that i think took away from the strength/potency of the messages. 🚶♂️ ok i’m out
other than that stuff, i thought the ideas discussed rang pretty true and were important to consider. basically western “romance” is the projection of the ideal onto the other, and the author suggests that the way to escape this ego trap is to recognize the duality that exists in all human experience - our own spiritual world within us and the real tangible human world. cultivating the inner spiritual world is something the “west” has more or less abandoned (though we’ve begun to cautiously return to it recently i think; this book was written in the 80s). this is the reason we’re so caught up in seeking to be “in love” as the “in love feeling” is the shoddy replacement we’ve found for a rich inner spiritual life.
lol not to write an essay on here but i just wanted to summarize it a bit for my future self. all in all interesting read, but had some complexities that i think took away from the strength/potency of the messages. 🚶♂️ ok i’m out
May 24, 2010
I didn't really enjoy this book. Filled with a lot of stuff I didn't really understand and very little practical knowledge of which I didn't already know. I did enjoy the last chapter though.
August 23, 2017
Extraordinary. Read this. It doesn’t matter if you’re single, in a serious relationship, dating casually, or entirely disinterested in any sort of “romantic” entanglement; all human relationships can benefit from the information presented in We. Johnson provides a Jungian analysis of romantic love and its place in man’s psyche. I feel the following quotes summarize its message:
“It is difficult for us to see the difference—the vast difference—between relating to a human person and using that person as a vehicle for one’s projection.”
“But illusion is neither the inner world of psyche nor the external physical world. Illusion is a distorted relationship between inner and outer. We give birth to illusion by superimposing our inner world of images—our continuous stream of fantasy—on the external world and on the people who live there. We see the physical world colored and distorted through the film of our inner images.”
“In those rare moments when we are loving, rather than focused on our own egos, we stop asking what dreams this person is going to fulfill for us, what intense and extraordinary adventures he or she is going to provide.”
“Human love is so obscured by the inflations and commotions of romance that we almost never look for love in its own right, and we hardly know what to look for when we do search. But as we learn love’s characteristics and attitudes, we can begin to see love within us—revealed in our feelings, in the spontaneous flow of warmth that surges toward another person, in the small, unnoticed acts of relatedness that make up the secret fabric of our daily lives.”
Sincerely, I believe my relationships will be much improved because of the things I learned from Johnson's analysis; additionally, I think it's a great resource for guidance along one's path to transcendence. Highly, highly recommend.
“It is difficult for us to see the difference—the vast difference—between relating to a human person and using that person as a vehicle for one’s projection.”
“But illusion is neither the inner world of psyche nor the external physical world. Illusion is a distorted relationship between inner and outer. We give birth to illusion by superimposing our inner world of images—our continuous stream of fantasy—on the external world and on the people who live there. We see the physical world colored and distorted through the film of our inner images.”
“In those rare moments when we are loving, rather than focused on our own egos, we stop asking what dreams this person is going to fulfill for us, what intense and extraordinary adventures he or she is going to provide.”
“Human love is so obscured by the inflations and commotions of romance that we almost never look for love in its own right, and we hardly know what to look for when we do search. But as we learn love’s characteristics and attitudes, we can begin to see love within us—revealed in our feelings, in the spontaneous flow of warmth that surges toward another person, in the small, unnoticed acts of relatedness that make up the secret fabric of our daily lives.”
Sincerely, I believe my relationships will be much improved because of the things I learned from Johnson's analysis; additionally, I think it's a great resource for guidance along one's path to transcendence. Highly, highly recommend.
October 22, 2017
I think this book could have been summed up in a much more concise way using about a third of the paper.
"Many years ago a wise friend gave me a name for human love. She called it 'stirring-thr-oatmeal' love. She was right: Within this phrase, if we will humble ourselves enough to look, it is the very essence of what human love is, and it shows us the principal differences between human love and romance.
Stirring oatmeal is an humble act--not exciting or thrilling. But it symbolizes a relatedness that brings love down to earth. It represents a willingness to share ordinary human life, to find meaning in the simple, unromantic tasks: earning a living, living within a budget, putting out the garbage, feeding the baby in the middle of the night. To 'stir the oatmeal' means to find the relatedness, the value, even the beauty, in simple and ordinary things, not to eternally demand a cosmic drama, an entertainment, or an extraordinary intensity in everything. Discover the sacred in the midst of the humble and ordinary. "
"Many years ago a wise friend gave me a name for human love. She called it 'stirring-thr-oatmeal' love. She was right: Within this phrase, if we will humble ourselves enough to look, it is the very essence of what human love is, and it shows us the principal differences between human love and romance.
Stirring oatmeal is an humble act--not exciting or thrilling. But it symbolizes a relatedness that brings love down to earth. It represents a willingness to share ordinary human life, to find meaning in the simple, unromantic tasks: earning a living, living within a budget, putting out the garbage, feeding the baby in the middle of the night. To 'stir the oatmeal' means to find the relatedness, the value, even the beauty, in simple and ordinary things, not to eternally demand a cosmic drama, an entertainment, or an extraordinary intensity in everything. Discover the sacred in the midst of the humble and ordinary. "
July 1, 2009
It's a wonder the human race has survived at all. We certainly do like to torment each other ...
May 12, 2020
This is my first Goodreads review ever but I am going to give it a go since this book had such a profound impact on me.
Jungian analyst Robert A. Johnson examines the connection between romantic love - a very western concept - and our search for religious experience through the beautiful and timeless love story of Tristan and Iseult. If you have ever fallen ”in love” or ”plan” on falling in love - this book is for you. It might just save you a lot of time, and spare some broken hearts and confusion! There lays so much beauty and potential in romance, but the western psyche is caught in a repetitive fluctuation between falling in and out of love, characterized by intense feelings of ecstatic passion and bliss, drama, suffering, hope and disappointment. The western pop culture is permeated by our addiction to romance, it’s literally everywhere if you open your eyes to it, the songs (hello Lady Gaga!), the movies, the literature.
But if we dare to look at the true meaning behind romantic love, what it really is; a projection that flows from our mind, what we seek from it, and why it is not working so well for us, romance offers us a great chance for an advance in consciousness and towards psychological wholeness. If we dare to transform, change, give up our ego-importance and question our own opinions and old ways of showing up in the world, it offers us a chance for transition into human love, which is completely different from the romantic one. Romance works in the service of the ego, it is a projection of an unattainable ideal, anima, onto a mortal being. Human love is based on friendship, affection and commitment. But romance is not all bad. There is beauty in what is being projected, in what is seen via one’s beloved: unknown parts and potentialities within oneself that are longing to be discovered.
”The fault in romantic love is not that we love ourselves, but that we love ourselves wrongly. By trying to revere the unconscious through our romantic projections on other people, we miss the reality hidden in those projections: We don’t see that it is our own selves we are searching for.”
Understanding of romantic love leads us to the spiritual side of our being and a contact with the inner world which has not always been obvious to the western mind. When we acknowledge our capacity and need for love on two different levels, a divine love as well as an earthly, human everyday ”stirring the oatmeal” love, and the importance of both, while also not mixing them up, we can begin a new life - one that is happier, more harmonious and whole! It might just be exactly what you have been looking for. This is one of the most insightful books i have ever read. Johnson presents Carl Jung’s theories with clarity and directness without losing depth. If I could give this book more than five ⭐️ I definitely would!
Jungian analyst Robert A. Johnson examines the connection between romantic love - a very western concept - and our search for religious experience through the beautiful and timeless love story of Tristan and Iseult. If you have ever fallen ”in love” or ”plan” on falling in love - this book is for you. It might just save you a lot of time, and spare some broken hearts and confusion! There lays so much beauty and potential in romance, but the western psyche is caught in a repetitive fluctuation between falling in and out of love, characterized by intense feelings of ecstatic passion and bliss, drama, suffering, hope and disappointment. The western pop culture is permeated by our addiction to romance, it’s literally everywhere if you open your eyes to it, the songs (hello Lady Gaga!), the movies, the literature.
But if we dare to look at the true meaning behind romantic love, what it really is; a projection that flows from our mind, what we seek from it, and why it is not working so well for us, romance offers us a great chance for an advance in consciousness and towards psychological wholeness. If we dare to transform, change, give up our ego-importance and question our own opinions and old ways of showing up in the world, it offers us a chance for transition into human love, which is completely different from the romantic one. Romance works in the service of the ego, it is a projection of an unattainable ideal, anima, onto a mortal being. Human love is based on friendship, affection and commitment. But romance is not all bad. There is beauty in what is being projected, in what is seen via one’s beloved: unknown parts and potentialities within oneself that are longing to be discovered.
”The fault in romantic love is not that we love ourselves, but that we love ourselves wrongly. By trying to revere the unconscious through our romantic projections on other people, we miss the reality hidden in those projections: We don’t see that it is our own selves we are searching for.”
Understanding of romantic love leads us to the spiritual side of our being and a contact with the inner world which has not always been obvious to the western mind. When we acknowledge our capacity and need for love on two different levels, a divine love as well as an earthly, human everyday ”stirring the oatmeal” love, and the importance of both, while also not mixing them up, we can begin a new life - one that is happier, more harmonious and whole! It might just be exactly what you have been looking for. This is one of the most insightful books i have ever read. Johnson presents Carl Jung’s theories with clarity and directness without losing depth. If I could give this book more than five ⭐️ I definitely would!
Read
January 29, 2017Tristan e Isolda es el mito que nos ayuda a comprender el amor en pareja que, a partir del amor romántico o enamoramiento, puede convertirse en un amor real.
Tristan es un niño que un día después de nacer queda huérfano, lo que representa la pérdida de su Ánima, o energía femenina.
Tras varios aprendizajes y batallas entra en contacto con Isolda la Hermosa, hija de la reina de Irlanda, quien lo salva de morir envenenado. Ambas mujeres son expertas en artes de magia y hechicería. Como una prueba de honor, Tristan lucha contra un dragón para obtener la mano de Isold para el rey Mark de Cornall, a quien sirve el caballero.
Para asegurar el éxito de esta unión, la reina de Irlanda prepara una poción que garantice el amor al menos por tres años. Una pócima que deberían tomar el rey Mark e Isolda. Pero, en el camino a Cornwall, Tristan e Isolda sienten sed y un sirviente les acerca la poción de amor.
A partir de este evento, se genera una atracción irracional, salvaje e imposible de resistir, que representa al amor romántico con el que inicia toda relación de pareja.
Como Tristan debe honrar su palabra, de llevar a Isolda ante el rey Mark: y, al mismo tiempo, obedecer los mandatos de su corazón, da inicio un proceso entre la razón y el enamoramiento.
Posteriormente, Tristan conoce a otra mujer y se casa con ella, Isolda la de las Blancas Manos. Pero el amor romántico que lo ata a la otra Isolda, le impide avanzar hacia el amor real y queda atrapado en los sentimientos que lo conducen a la muerte.
Un libro recomendable para quienes desean entender el proceso que nos lleva del amor romántico al amor real.
Tristan es un niño que un día después de nacer queda huérfano, lo que representa la pérdida de su Ánima, o energía femenina.
Tras varios aprendizajes y batallas entra en contacto con Isolda la Hermosa, hija de la reina de Irlanda, quien lo salva de morir envenenado. Ambas mujeres son expertas en artes de magia y hechicería. Como una prueba de honor, Tristan lucha contra un dragón para obtener la mano de Isold para el rey Mark de Cornall, a quien sirve el caballero.
Para asegurar el éxito de esta unión, la reina de Irlanda prepara una poción que garantice el amor al menos por tres años. Una pócima que deberían tomar el rey Mark e Isolda. Pero, en el camino a Cornwall, Tristan e Isolda sienten sed y un sirviente les acerca la poción de amor.
A partir de este evento, se genera una atracción irracional, salvaje e imposible de resistir, que representa al amor romántico con el que inicia toda relación de pareja.
Como Tristan debe honrar su palabra, de llevar a Isolda ante el rey Mark: y, al mismo tiempo, obedecer los mandatos de su corazón, da inicio un proceso entre la razón y el enamoramiento.
Posteriormente, Tristan conoce a otra mujer y se casa con ella, Isolda la de las Blancas Manos. Pero el amor romántico que lo ata a la otra Isolda, le impide avanzar hacia el amor real y queda atrapado en los sentimientos que lo conducen a la muerte.
Un libro recomendable para quienes desean entender el proceso que nos lleva del amor romántico al amor real.
August 31, 2012
Book largely based on transactional analysis, using Tristan and Isolde as a foundation for analysis of delusional concept of love.
I recommend this book to every person as I do all Johnson's books - He, She, Inner Work, Ecstasy, Transformation, and Owning Your Own Shadow. Johnson is a fine writer and great Jungian analyst.
I recommend this book to every person as I do all Johnson's books - He, She, Inner Work, Ecstasy, Transformation, and Owning Your Own Shadow. Johnson is a fine writer and great Jungian analyst.
June 1, 2020
Beyond mind blown. I should have known, after reading two of this author's books, that the book would become clearer by the end and that everything would come together. And I wasn't disappointed. Not. A. Single. Bit. I still believe that this writer in particular is a littttlle too abstract and is more male centered but wow man I've never had such a deep understanding of love and how relationships and romance play out the way they do. I love it. Everyone should read this. Deadass
July 15, 2010
When I first picked up this book I thought "Great. It's another one of those books where they try to symbolize every bit of a story. I continued to feel that way until about the middle of the book when I was hit in the face with some pointed remarks regarding romantic love, it's illusions, and the secrets to a long-term relationship. I ended up loving the book. Highly recommended.
April 20, 2011
I read this for its classroom value -- for both my Myth & Courtly Love classes. And it was useful and interesting. But I'm not a fan of Jung, so that bit got a bit old.
May 13, 2013
This book was recommended to me by my therapist and it was so incredibly eye opening. It gives a whole new perspective of what romantic love is and what we have come to believe that it is. It applies jungian principles to how we expect to play out the myths of fairy tales in our current love relationships. It also gives some real indicators of why so many marriages and relationships fail in our society. There is so much information to absorb in this 200 page book that I really want to read it a second time because I'm sure there is more to be learned on the second time around.
Johnson uses the original fairy tale myth of Tristan and Iseult to illustrate how we expect our romantic love relationships to play out like a fairy tale. Very thought provoking and highly recommended.
Johnson uses the original fairy tale myth of Tristan and Iseult to illustrate how we expect our romantic love relationships to play out like a fairy tale. Very thought provoking and highly recommended.
December 26, 2008
It gives a great perspective as to how we humans experience love. It also gives a good explanation of what is the difference between romatic love and, true and mature love. It talks about expectations, desires, passion, commitment, fears, etc. It helped me to understand why my love parners acted the way they did in our relationships, as well as why I kept fighting for those unfruitful relationships. ¡Trully interesting!
April 1, 2013
This book was given to me by a friend, and I really found it interesting. Robert A. Johnson is a world renown Jungian analyst and psychologist, and his writing is clear, concise, and beautifully articulated. If you find romantic love, or just love in general, a topic of interest or exploration then I highly recommend reading this.
June 1, 2021
Очень интересная работа, разбирающая, откуда взялись наши представления о романтике и том, какими должны быть отношения между мужчиной и женщиной. Для такой сложной темы читать относительно легко, повествование этих серий сопровождается сказками и легендами.
Рекомендую всем, кто хочет поближе разобраться с феноменом культуры отношений, психологии и особенно юнгианским направлением
Рекомендую всем, кто хочет поближе разобраться с феноменом культуры отношений, психологии и особенно юнгианским направлением
November 18, 2009
I stumbled on this on my parent's bookshelves right around the same time I was starting to feel like falling in love was what life was all about. Johnson, a Jungian psychologist, uses mythology to explain psychological truths. For a analytical kid like me, perfect light reading.
January 14, 2010
The book exposes and exemplifies dysfunctional love using a timeless and famous medieval love story. In turn, it helps you to understand true healthy love. I strongly recommend this book to all enthusiasts seeking for an explanation of Love.
August 26, 2012
Still the only self-helpish book I've ever read that actually changed my life and my view of relationships. We are using readings from this for our wedding.
April 29, 2021
This is was a nice read, a tad repetitive though. Interestingly the author is an American psychotherapist who was also a student of Jiddu Krishnamurthy and also spend some time in Aurobindo Ashram in Pondicherry, India.
The author uses the myth of Tristan & Isolde to explore what 'romantic love' is and it's shortcomings.
The notion of 'romantic love' as the only type of love worth having is widespread in the west, but is increasingly present in the east too these days. The author explains it's origins from the medieval patriarchal world which did not value the 'feminine' (the side that values connections, our inner selves and spirituality) aspects in us. So they came up with courtly love which eventually became romantic love where we project all these attributes on an ideal woman who is to be admired and loved and worshipped (but not possessed).
Romantic love is the sacred, ideal, passionate love where there is nothing more important in this world than the love 2 beings hold for each other. We find this version of love everywhere - movies, books, ads and many of us spend our youth searching for this while disparaging the comforting, patient, companionable, enduring and humane love because it doesn't blow your socks off.
Romantic love is an illusion, using a person as a vehicle for one's image of the perfect ideal person who is there to complete you. Ultimately it's about ourselves, our needs, our ego. And when this illusion fails, we go looking for a new one to complete ourselves.
So folks, if you are now falling out of romantic love, try and see the humane aspects of your other halves and love them for what they are and not what you want them to be. This is the love that pays dividends in the long run.
The author uses the myth of Tristan & Isolde to explore what 'romantic love' is and it's shortcomings.
The notion of 'romantic love' as the only type of love worth having is widespread in the west, but is increasingly present in the east too these days. The author explains it's origins from the medieval patriarchal world which did not value the 'feminine' (the side that values connections, our inner selves and spirituality) aspects in us. So they came up with courtly love which eventually became romantic love where we project all these attributes on an ideal woman who is to be admired and loved and worshipped (but not possessed).
Romantic love is the sacred, ideal, passionate love where there is nothing more important in this world than the love 2 beings hold for each other. We find this version of love everywhere - movies, books, ads and many of us spend our youth searching for this while disparaging the comforting, patient, companionable, enduring and humane love because it doesn't blow your socks off.
Romantic love is an illusion, using a person as a vehicle for one's image of the perfect ideal person who is there to complete you. Ultimately it's about ourselves, our needs, our ego. And when this illusion fails, we go looking for a new one to complete ourselves.
So folks, if you are now falling out of romantic love, try and see the humane aspects of your other halves and love them for what they are and not what you want them to be. This is the love that pays dividends in the long run.
April 22, 2022
I expect everyone who has been in romantic relationships has experienced that boom-and-bust cycle of passion, aka “the honeymoon phase.” The flame burns extremely brightly in the initial weeks or months or years: sex all the time, you spend most of your days dreaming about the other person, it feels like something deep and meaningful has finally entered your life; on the other hand, every slight is charged with the greatest despair, you are plunged into confusions and uncertainties, maybe you neglect your other relationships. Slowly (but not slowly enough to escape notice), the passion drops off: less sex, your partner’s plain humanness becomes more evident, the incredible highs and lows of feeling begin to flatten. You start noticing other people, you consider what they might have to offer that you partner doesn’t, you feel whether your partner isn’t really “the one,” but who knows, maybe should you just stick it out, maybe this is a rough spot, maybe the old passion is just hiding around the corner, at the end some long talk you two need to have. At this point you either end the relationship (conveniently, you have been reserving the perfect excuse: you aren’t totally sexual compatible with them; one of you moved and you couldn’t do long-distance; you are just better as friends in the long-run, you don’t share the same hobbies or interests, etc.), or you swallow your dissatisfaction and try to tough it out.
To me and possibly to you (who?), this is a familiar cycle. I have gone through it in every romantic relationship I have ever been in, playing both the roles of the passionate and the despairing. I have harbored my secret exits for when my partner stopped exciting me, and my partners have taken their own exits when I stopped exciting them. This cyclical drama has been the center of probably the greatest amount of mental energy I have invested into anything, ever. Over and over, the pattern holds.
To Robert A. Johnson, this is the basic condition of Western man with regard to romantic love.
There are a few main points I took from this book.
(1) Our Western society—stripped of all other outlets for spiritual life—has invested all of its spiritual energy into romantic love, hoping to live out the entirety of the soul in what it projects onto romantic partners.
(2) Romantic love is not synonymous with human love; in fact they are closer to mutually exclusive concepts. Romantic love has taken the form of the passion I wrote about above: being “in love” rather than just “loving” someone, the selfish use(!) of another person to live out one’s own unexpressed soul. This is a delusion—the process of projecting onto another person the contents of one’s own soul, expecting them to match up to what one lacks in oneself, praising them only so far as they correlate to that ideal. Human love, on the other hand, is a recognition of another person for their simple, obvious humanity, totally unrelated to whatever is unexpressed in one’s own soul. It is a warm, friendly affection and loyalty toward the person they really are, not as we want them to be.
(3) We instinctively think that romantic love—for all its delusions and pains, even if it involves using another person for one’s own passions—is much more important than human love, because we know, more than we know almost anything else, how important it feels. We feel we can find human love in any corner of life, if we are willing to look for it, but romantic love is rare. It is bizarre, perspective-shifting, imbued with intense meaning and depth; it feels like nothing we (or else anyone) have ever felt. Johnson believes this knowledge we all seem have of romantic love is a misrecognition. Rather, he believes that these incredible depths we associate with romantic love are actually to do with the soul, since we all reflexively project our souls onto our partners in our romantic loves. It is not romantic love that is so important, but the exploration and expression of the inner, unknown psyche—the soul.
(4) We in the West cannot simply choose to stick to human love, to stop projecting in romantic love. The missing passion will gnaw away at us until we address it. Some people find expression of the soul in collective organized religion, some in contemplative meditation, some in yoga, some in concentrated creativity, etc. The important thing is that we cannot leave the soul unexplored, or it will inevitably seep out in projection. We must come to it on its own terms, and in doing so, work toward a more total understanding and expression of our selves.
Couple of more technical review notes: this book’s conclusion was a little boring. Maybe it was just me, but I was getting sleepy near the end there. Another thing, probably 20 pages could have been cut from this thing simply by eliminating rephrasings. Johnson has a habit here of saying something, and then saying it again. Sometimes it’s helpful for illuminating difficult concepts; sometimes it feels redundant.
But overall I think this was wonderful and revelatory. I do not need to play out the same old scenes for all of my life. Also, I think this Jungian approach to psychology is the most real-feeling psychology I have ever come across. It actually seems to map onto my life, inner and outer, without stretching its premises too far. I will have to check out some more stuff. Ok bye.
To me and possibly to you (who?), this is a familiar cycle. I have gone through it in every romantic relationship I have ever been in, playing both the roles of the passionate and the despairing. I have harbored my secret exits for when my partner stopped exciting me, and my partners have taken their own exits when I stopped exciting them. This cyclical drama has been the center of probably the greatest amount of mental energy I have invested into anything, ever. Over and over, the pattern holds.
To Robert A. Johnson, this is the basic condition of Western man with regard to romantic love.
There are a few main points I took from this book.
(1) Our Western society—stripped of all other outlets for spiritual life—has invested all of its spiritual energy into romantic love, hoping to live out the entirety of the soul in what it projects onto romantic partners.
(2) Romantic love is not synonymous with human love; in fact they are closer to mutually exclusive concepts. Romantic love has taken the form of the passion I wrote about above: being “in love” rather than just “loving” someone, the selfish use(!) of another person to live out one’s own unexpressed soul. This is a delusion—the process of projecting onto another person the contents of one’s own soul, expecting them to match up to what one lacks in oneself, praising them only so far as they correlate to that ideal. Human love, on the other hand, is a recognition of another person for their simple, obvious humanity, totally unrelated to whatever is unexpressed in one’s own soul. It is a warm, friendly affection and loyalty toward the person they really are, not as we want them to be.
(3) We instinctively think that romantic love—for all its delusions and pains, even if it involves using another person for one’s own passions—is much more important than human love, because we know, more than we know almost anything else, how important it feels. We feel we can find human love in any corner of life, if we are willing to look for it, but romantic love is rare. It is bizarre, perspective-shifting, imbued with intense meaning and depth; it feels like nothing we (or else anyone) have ever felt. Johnson believes this knowledge we all seem have of romantic love is a misrecognition. Rather, he believes that these incredible depths we associate with romantic love are actually to do with the soul, since we all reflexively project our souls onto our partners in our romantic loves. It is not romantic love that is so important, but the exploration and expression of the inner, unknown psyche—the soul.
(4) We in the West cannot simply choose to stick to human love, to stop projecting in romantic love. The missing passion will gnaw away at us until we address it. Some people find expression of the soul in collective organized religion, some in contemplative meditation, some in yoga, some in concentrated creativity, etc. The important thing is that we cannot leave the soul unexplored, or it will inevitably seep out in projection. We must come to it on its own terms, and in doing so, work toward a more total understanding and expression of our selves.
Couple of more technical review notes: this book’s conclusion was a little boring. Maybe it was just me, but I was getting sleepy near the end there. Another thing, probably 20 pages could have been cut from this thing simply by eliminating rephrasings. Johnson has a habit here of saying something, and then saying it again. Sometimes it’s helpful for illuminating difficult concepts; sometimes it feels redundant.
But overall I think this was wonderful and revelatory. I do not need to play out the same old scenes for all of my life. Also, I think this Jungian approach to psychology is the most real-feeling psychology I have ever come across. It actually seems to map onto my life, inner and outer, without stretching its premises too far. I will have to check out some more stuff. Ok bye.
July 28, 2024
I feel privileged to have stumbled upon Robert Johnson’s books. His approach to jungian psychological topics is direct and easy to grasp.
This book examines the psychology of romantic love in men and how “modern men” misunderstood the concept of love and that lead to the decline in the ability to form healthy relationships.
His books is a good mixture of ease of delivery and eye opening.
This book examines the psychology of romantic love in men and how “modern men” misunderstood the concept of love and that lead to the decline in the ability to form healthy relationships.
His books is a good mixture of ease of delivery and eye opening.
September 15, 2020
Me encantando cada vez mais com a potência dos mitos!
Displaying 1 - 30 of 170 reviews