- Bill Hagmaier: What do you imagine they're doing right now? You know, while their daddies talk murder?
- Ted Bundy: I haven't seen her. I don't uh... I don't know what she does. I'd like to imagine that she's got a nice dollhouse and that she goes out riding her bike. Then I also hope that she's... careful, you know?
- Bill Hagmaier: Hm. A lot of dangerous men in the world.
- Ted Bundy: Too many.
- Ted Bundy: Does your son know what you do?
- Bill Hagmaier: He knows his daddy protects people.
- Ted Bundy: Well, Rosa's daddy... well, he doesn't.
- Warden Wilkenson: It's a madhouse here. We got phones ringing off the hook, I got inspectors coming from all over the country, got media camped out across the street, now you're showing up to join Team Bundy.
- Bill Hagmaier: No, I'm just here to coordinate.
- Warden Wilkenson: Yeah, Carolyn's not gonna see it that way.
- Bill Hagmaier: Who?
- Warden Wilkenson: Oh, she's the ringmaster of Barnum, Bailey, and Bundy.
- Ted Bundy: Do you think you could kill somebody? I think you could.
- Bill Hagmaier: Well, I'm an FBI agent. I carry a gun, got a badge.
- Ted Bundy: That's not what I'm saying.
- Bill Hagmaier: Every morning I say a prayer. I put on my gun and my badge, and I ask God for the strength and wisdom to know when to pull the trigger. And not one second sooner, and not one second later.
- Ted Bundy: That's not what I'm asking either. Could you kill somebody?
- Bill Hagmaier: Yeah, I could. And I could get away with it too. I'm at least as strong as you. Probably like sex as much as you do. I know how to dispose of a body. How not to be noticed. How to get in and out and leave a scene looking like it belongs to a series of other murderers. But that's not who I am. I wouldn't do that.
- Ted Bundy: But you could do it.
- Bill Hagmaier: Yeah, yeah, I could.
- Ted Bundy: Are you crazy?
- Bill Hagmaier: I don't think so.
- Ted Bundy: Well, neither am I.
- Ted Bundy: I need to make a phone call.
- Bill Hagmaier: Yeah, you have all the calls...
- Ted Bundy: To my mother. What the hell do I say to her Bill? I don't know how to...
- Bill Hagmaier: You tell the truth. You apologize. You say you're sorry. Write her a letter.
- Ted Bundy: I don't know how to write that Bill.
- Bill Hagmaier: You're saying I'm the guy that's actually gonna decide whether or not he gets the chair.
- Ted Bundy: You and your colleagues out there. The investigators, the detectives. You're like fishermen out on the water. You throw your bait in, you're trying to catch your fish. The smaller fish... the inexperienced ones, the ones that are still driven by their ego... well, they're going to fight for that. They're going to swim up, they're going to try to get that hook. They don't know it's a hook because they're stupid. They're arrogant. You'll catch a lot of those fish. But occasionally, your bait will sink a little lower... to the mid-level, and that's where the medium size fish are. They're hard to catch. You only catch them when they're lazy or their egos get the better of them. You get them, you pull them up, you mount them on your wall, you get your press conference, you write your book. But deep down... in the deepest depths of the sea, is where the biggest fish are. You have no idea how big they are. You have no idea how long they've been down there. They see everything. They watch everything. Sometimes they eat the smaller fish. But they don't take the bait. The only way you can catch them is to become one of them. You can't do that. You won't do that. Not yet. Maybe someday... if I can trust you... I'll take you under the water with me. You can see how deep all this goes.
- Ted Bundy: I'm going to... take you somewhere... that I've never taken anyone before. And I will do the talking.
- Bill Hagmaier: Those families. They need to know that you died for their daughter. Each one of them independently is going to believe that you died for their daughter. That's why you have to die in the morning. It's for them.
- Ted Bundy: You think they should kill me, don't you? You think it's my turn to die.
- Bill Hagmaier: Frankly, they probably should've done it a long time ago.
- Carolyn Lieberman: You want to know what I think about Ted Bundy? I will tell you. I hate him. I think I hate him more than anybody I ever hated.
- Bill Hagmaier: Then why defend him?
- Carolyn Lieberman: Because... murder is murder.
- Ted Bundy: I'm not stalling. I'm not playing games. I'm coming clean, and if that means bringing other states into the mix, then so be it.
- Bill Hagmaier: How many?
- Ted Bundy: Five.
- Bill Hagmaier: Not how many states, how many girls?
- Ted Bundy: Am I talking about?
- Bill Hagmaier: How many did you kill?
- Ted Bundy: [sighs] That.
- Bill Hagmaier: Yes, that.
- Ted Bundy: I'd say thirty.
- Bill Hagmaier: Let's say we talk about the real number.
- Ted Bundy: Thrity is a nice round number.
- Bill Hagmaier: How. Many?
- Bill Hagmaier: You can't hold these girls hostage. Not anymore. That tactic will backfire. If anyone senses that you're stalling on this, you're cooked.
- Carolyn Lieberman: I'm not going to leave you alone with law enforcement.
- Ted Bundy: Carolyn. I told you. This is different. This is Bill. He's my best friend.
- Bill Hagmaier: I'm not writing a book. Not with you. Not with anybody.
- Ted Bundy: Why not?
- Bill Hagmaier: Well, I'd just be like all the other primadonnas, right?
- Ted Bundy: Yeah, but think about what it could do for your career.
- Bill Hagmaier: My career is fine.
- Ted Bundy: Tell me what do you think I would do if I broke out of this place?
- Bill Hagmaier: Well, the first thing you would do is steal a car. Then you'd probably head up to the state of Washington. You'd probably... remove a couple of people that are under your skin.
- Ted Bundy: Yeah? Who?
- Bill Hagmaier: Maybe a... . an investigator that's pissing you off. Not returning your letters. Maybe a journalist who's been... . unkind. Then there's somebody else. I don't know. A guy you think is having sex with your wife. Then you'd steal another car, slip over the border into Canada and never ever come out. We'd never hear from you ever again.
- Ted Bundy: Fuck you!
- Warden Wilkenson: You think you're smarter than him. You think you're gonna be the one that's gonna get him to confess.
- Bill Hagmaier: I don't think I'm smarter, sir. I don't think you necessarily have to be smarter.
- Warden Wilkenson: This is what's gonna happen, Agent Hagmaier. Ted Bundy will come down, he'll toy with you for a little while, he will cat and mouse with you, he will make you think you're getting somewhere. Then... he's gonna leave you there, go back to his cell, and jerk off at the memory.
- Bill Hagmaier: Well, at least that'll give me something to write about.
- [laughs]
- Bill Hagmaier: We said no media.
- Carolyn Lieberman: And he knows the rules. He just wants to talk to him. Ted will tell him what he wants to hear.
- Bill Hagmaier: He wants a poster boy.
- Carolyn Lieberman: And we'll give it to him.
- Ted Bundy: I think most guys get themselves caught.
- Bill Hagmaier: Do you think sometimes... they want to get caught?
- Ted Bundy: I never wanted to be caught.
- Ted Bundy: I just don't know! I don't know, I don't know!
- Bill Hagmaier: Well, what we do know is you're going to die in the morning, and there will be a final judgment.
- Ted Bundy: How am I going to explain all this to God?
- Bill Hagmaier: There's a thing called remorse, a thing called repentance. Salvation has to come from within first. You're not gonna be able to lie your way out of this one, Ted.
- Carolyn Lieberman: Were you happy with the interview?
- Dr. James Dobson: Very! His message is going to go out to the world and save untold thousands of lives and souls.
- Carolyn Lieberman: And the governor?
- Dr. James Dobson: Is going to love this!
- Carolyn Lieberman: So you'll talk to him.
- Dr. James Dobson: He's a murderer. But now he can go on to meet the Lord with a clean soul and an unburdened heart.
- Ted Bundy: The governor isn't going to call. This is it, right?
- Bill Hagmaier: The governor has identified three psychiatrists, good ones. They're interviewing staff, administrators, anyone who's come in contact with you to ask if they noticed any change in your behavior over the last week.
- Ted Bundy: Well, that's alright.
- [pause]
- Ted Bundy: They're going to ask you.
- Bill Hagmaier: I mean, who have you spent more time with over the last three days?
- Ted Bundy: And if you tell them that I'm not crazy... I'll be executed.
- Bill Hagmaier: That is the likeliest outcome.
- Ted Bundy: Did you get what you came here for? Do you know why I did it?
- Bill Hagmaier: Because you wanted to.
- Bill Hagmaier: You've been sitting here for eight years. What do you think they brought you here for? It's just now starting to sink in?
- Bill Hagmaier: I don't want to get you on anything. I'm not even going to ask if you killed anybody. It doesn't matter to me.
- Ted Bundy: Why would you want to talk to me specifically?
- Bill Hagmaier: Look, we both have psychology degrees. You almost have a law degree. You have more education than I do. I know the guys on the row come to you looking for advice. You help them with their appeals. They trust you. They tell you things. I'm not going to ask you anyone's secrets. I-I just... I just want to recruit you to help me see if we're going down the right road on this. Are we asking the right questions? Are we looking at the right people?... I don't know what you know. I don't see what you see. I don't hear what you hear. I don't think you'd tell me the truth even if I did ask you. I'm just... I got to start somewhere.
- Ted Bundy: [shouts] Why Bill? Why did this happen to me?
- Bill Hagmaier: [shouts] Wait a minute! Wait a minute! You're asking me so I'm gonna tell you right now! How many of your victims had the opportunity that you have, huh? To prepare for death! To call your mom? You don't even know how many girls there even were! All those children! All those children who died!
- Ted Bundy: They weren't all children. Most of them were women...
- Bill Hagmaier: [shouts] They were all somebody's child, Ted!
- Ted Bundy: So tell me, what's the uh, tape recorder for?
- Bill Hagmaier: I'd thought we'd talk about some cases.
- Ted Bundy: And you need a tape recorder for that?
- Bill Hagmaier: You have a unique window into this world and there's a good chance you'll say a great many things that I'd like a record of.
- Ted Bundy: Okay. But if I say shut it off...
- Bill Hagmaier: It goes off.
- Ted Bundy: Well... press record, and let's get this party started.
- Roger Depue: You think he's capable of all the other murders he's suspected of?
- Bill Hagmaier: Oh, he's... he's guilty, alright. He all but admitted it to me.
- Roger Depue: You're kidding me.
- Bill Hagmaier: He wouldn't say he did it. He won't. Not yet. But he wanted me to know he did it. He's proud. Proud of what he's done, but even more so that we can't prove it.
- Bill Hagmaier: No one could've saved him after what he's done. Carolyn... you need to go home to your husband... go home to your kids. Get some sleep.
- Carolyn Lieberman: Has anyone ever told you that you need to go home to your kids?
- Ted Bundy: So, how did you end up in the FBI?
- Bill Hagmaier: I think we should focus on...
- Ted Bundy: On me?
- Bill Hagmaier: Yeah.
- Ted Bundy: You ask me to trust you, Bill. I don't know you from Adam.
- Bill Hagmaier: I ended up in the FBI by accident.
- Ted Bundy: Aw, bullshit. You've got to have a degree. What'd you get it for?
- Bill Hagmaier: I wanted to be a guidance counselor.
- Ted Bundy: [scoffs] No, no way.
- Bill Hagmaier: Seriously, a guidance counselor.
- Ted Bundy: How does a guidance counselor end up in the FBI?
- Bill Hagmaier: Two weeks after I graduated, I was drafted.
- Ted Bundy: You went to Nam?
- Bill Hagmaier: No. But my brother was over there and had just been shot. That bullet spared me from having to go over.
- Ted Bundy: So, what did you do?
- Bill Hagmaier: I ended up as a counselor at a military prison.
- Ted Bundy: And someone there was a serial killer?
- Bill Hagmaier: A few.
- Ted Bundy: Did you counsel them?
- Bill Hagmaier: Some.
- Ted Bundy: I bet you never wanted for a thing in your life. What did your dad do? Investment banking? Upper management?
- Bill Hagmaier: Mailman.
- Ted Bundy: Happy childhood?
- Bill Hagmaier: No.
- Ted Bundy: Close to him?
- Bill Hagmaier: He was a drunk.
- Ted Bundy: Okay. Moving on.
- Bill Hagmaier: [answers phone] Hagmaier.
- Will: Hey Bill, it's Will. I reached out to the warden about getting you into that interview.
- Bill Hagmaier: Did you talk to him?
- Will: Yeah, I did. Bundy wants you to write him a letter.
- Bill Hagmaier: Write him a what?
- [scoffs]
- Will: A letter. Who knows with this guy? Can you get it done by tomorrow?
- Bill Hagmaier: Yeah, sure. I can do that.
- Will: Great. You get it to me, I'll get it to Bundy.
- Ted Bundy: He isn't some kind of monster because he wasn't at the beginning. He's sick, demented, sure. But when you start using jargon like that, those impassioned terms, you forget that there's a lot of him that in you.
- Bill Hagmaier: I don't know about that.
- Ted Bundy: There is nothing that this guy has thought that you haven't thought at one time or another. What, he's just taking it a step further for one reason or another.
- Bill Hagmaier: I'll tell you what the real bad pornography is. The marriage of pleasure with the thrill of control. The real danger isn't watching a woman get undressed or reading a playboy.BIt's someone having the euphoric feeling of having sex and hurting someone at the same time, like in the detective magazines. The ones with the girls on the front covers with their breasts falling out of their dress while someone garrots them from behind. Read the true story of one killer's obsession. Exactly. You know what those are really good for, though?
- Ted Bundy: What?
- Bill Hagmaier: Learning how not to get caught. I imagine they would be. They are instruction manuals on how to get away with it.
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