Property talk:P3280

Documentation

BAnQ authority ID
identifier for an authority record for authors, works, and subject headings in the Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec (BAnQ)

Associated item

Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec (Q39628)

Applicable "stated in" value

Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec identifier (Q22916615)

Has quality

VIAF component (Q26921380)

Data type

External identifier

Domain

According to this template: human (Q5) and authors

According to statements in the property:

When possible, data should only be stored as statements

Allowed values

000\d{7}

Example

Honoré Julien Jean-Baptiste Chouinard (Q3140237) → 0000014756
Marcelle Mallet (Q21672723) → 0000066897
Titanic (Q25173) → 0000001656
Charter of the French Language (Q1067781) → 0000030658

Source

VIAF - id B2Q (note: this information should be moved to a property statement; use property source website for the property (P1896))

Formatter URL

https://viaf.org/processed/B2Q$1

Robot and gadget jobs

Should be use by VIAF importation gadget/bots and then displayed on wikis using Module:Authority control (Q11640331)

Related to country

Canada (Q16) (See 163 others)

Changed format, URL is dead

Notified participants of WikiProject Authority control

10 digit values have been pulled from VIAF and were reuploaded in the new NCF-format used by LAC. This is one more step in their plan of creating a unified authority file in french, similar like what NaCO for english authority data is. Since there was ever only a link to VIAF for these values, which is now obsolete, what do you people suggest on how to proceed? --Sotho Tal Ker (talk) 22:41, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Sotho Tal Ker: Thanks as always for reporting! I had just noticed something strange around Canada in VIAF ... so, I understand that VIAF has dropped BAnQ authority ID (P3280) in favour of Canadiana Name Authority ID (P8179), is it correct? If so, probably the only thing we should do is marking this property as Wikidata property for a discontinued website (Q60457486) and keep it for historical purpose. Good night, --Epìdosis 22:48, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

BAnQ authority ID (P3280)

and Canadiana Name Authority ID (P8179)

are still distinct catalogs and handled separately in VIAF, so marking one obsolete won't do the trick, sadly. Just the format has changed here, from 10 digits to ncf followed by 8 digits. The simplest solution would be to just replace all the old values with the new one and be done with it. But that will likely freak out all those people which care for longterm stability of property formats. Marking this property obsolete or deprecated would work, but a new property will have to be created then. See it as analogue to what happened with Canadiana Authorities ID (former scheme) (P1670)

, old values were pulled from VIAF and we created a new property Canadiana Name Authority ID (P8179)

. I'm all in favor of creating a new "BanQ NCF authority ID", but I would like to get some feedback here first. :) --Sotho Tal Ker (talk) 23:13, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thanks for the clarification, I've now understood: given how we acted with Canadiana Authorities ID (former scheme) (P1670)>Canadiana Name Authority ID (P8179), I agree about keeping this and proposing a new property for the new format. --Epìdosis 23:36, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Small follow up: Not all values in VIAF have been updated to the new format. I suggest we wait a little bit longer before we decide how to finally proceed. Someone should probably contact LAC or B2Q (or both) on this matter. --Sotho Tal Ker (talk) 23:23, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Sotho Tal Ker: "Unified authority file in French": Do you mean between LAC and BANQ? If they have (or are are working towards) a unified NCF namespace then we should have a single prop in Wikidata.

On the other hand, BnF and culture.fr have their own person authorities, so I guess you don't mean France? --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 12:04, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Vladimir Alexiev: Well, I meant French as in the language. The Canadiana explains it here: "While many organizations around the world maintain French-language authority files, there is currently no international shared French-language authority program comparable to what is available in English through NACO. For this reason, LAC has now begun to maintain its separate French-language name authority file using the WMS Canadiana Name Authorities in French functionality." It is not said directly, but I think they plan to create something similar to NACO. On step towards that would be to incorporate the BanQ data in their new format/catalogue, which has apparently happened for a few entries. This is sensible, since LAC and BanQ are both canadian library organisations. If other french authority data providers will follow up soon, I personally doubt. Particularly the BnF format is already well established.

One problem that I see with a single property is that while LAC and BanQ share the same format, they are still distinct VIAF catalogues. It would be much better if the authority records were directly accessable somehow instead of only via VIAF. --Sotho Tal Ker (talk) 19:41, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Sotho Tal Ker: I suggest we wait. If you look at the VIAF RDF data http://viaf.org/viaf/93810507/rdf.xml for Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (Q2908), you'll find http://viaf.org/viaf/sourceID/CAOONL%7Cncf10156935 but http://viaf.org/viaf/sourceID/B2Q%7C0000080940 . So I don't think BANQ has completed their transition to NCF numbering... Where did you see that "10 digit values have been pulled from VIAF"? No announcement at http://viaf.org/viaf/partnerpages/B2Q.html --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 10:20, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Vladimir Alexiev: Not all values have been pulled, but some were. Look at the VIAF history at https://viaf.org/viaf/59283342/ for Eagle-Eye Cherry (Q435398) as an example. Why only a part was replaced and not everything, if it was accidental or deliberate, but then stopped - I do not know. I'll entertain any theories. --Sotho Tal Ker (talk) 13:07, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure what exactly is being done, but if this is: replacing some values of a property with values of another scheme, then it's typically not what I think we should be doing with Wikidata properties. It's just a step worse than replacing all values with identifiers of a different scheme in a property (even if they come from the same source). --- Jura 15:15, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Notified participants of WikiProject Authority control

@Sotho Tal Ker, Epìdosis, Jura1: Over a year after the above discussion, things don't seem to be changed:

http://viaf.org/viaf/93810507/ "VIAF History" shows

B2Q|0000080940  	add  	2015-09-20T14:54:45+00:00
CAOONL|ncf10156935	add 	2018-11-18T17:19:29.417979+00:00
LAC|0053C0058   	delete	2018-12-02T23:51:22.972825+00:00

https://viaf.org/viaf/59283342/ "VIAF History" shows

CAOONL|ncf10817799	add 	2020-07-14T13:53:41.367485+00:00
B2Q|0000956335  	delete	2020-07-05T14:59:46.886687+00:00
B2Q|ncf10817799 	add 	2020-07-05T15:46:18.020816+00:00

So:

Some B2Q entries are migrated to the new format, and appear to be unified with CAOONL
Others stay in the old format

Either BANQ or VIAF has not completed a transition to the new format.

So this prop will have values of mixed format, and we have no other option but to continue waiting? --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 14:19, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately I tend to think that in this situation yes, "this prop will have values of mixed format, and we have no other option but to continue waiting". --Epìdosis 14:28, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm the Bibliogaphic Standards Librarian at BAnQ and the BAnQ contact person for VIAF. I also oversee BAnQ's participation in PFAN, which is the Francophone Name Authority Program by which which LAC, BAnQ and 15 francophone libraries from the Partenariat des bibliothèques universitaires du Québec contribute to the Canadiana name authority file. You can read more about the program here : https://wiki.gccollab.ca/PFAN_-_Programme_francophone_des_autorit%C3%A9s_de_noms#Communications_.5BNOUVEAU.5D. BAnQ creates and enhances authority records in Canadiana since June 2020, but still maintains its own local authority database for various reasons. Because its content is not identical to that of the Canadiana file, we still find it important to contribute the records to VIAF as a separate file. In our local database, the identifier is the 10-digit number. For internal workflow reasons, we also store in our local records the Canadiana (ncf) numbers of the BAnQ records that were integrated into the Canadiana file in 2020 or the numbers of the records that have been imported from Canadiana since then. We only recently realized that the ncf numbers were inadvertently sent to VIAF in lieu of our local 10-digit identifiers. The situation has now been corrected and the only BAnQ record identifiers that will be included in VIAF records from now on are the 10-digit numbers.

For example, for https://viaf.org/viaf/59283342/ "VIAF History" now shows:

B2Q|ncf10817799 delete 2022-04-10T09:57:25.577341+00:00

B2Q|0000956335 add 2022-04-10T13:06:53.678167+00:00

It is therefore correct to keep the element. I have corrected some of the properties to reflect the new situation. My apologies for the inconvenience this error may have caused. Paradida (talk) 16:02, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Paradida: Thank you very much for your detailed explanation! I have removed 4359 wrong NCF IDs from Wikidata through https://quickstatements.toolforge.org/#/batch/82845 and I have also removed NCF from the format allowed for this property; now everything is OK. --Epìdosis 08:22, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

error of typing

in French: Bibilothèque is wrong, bibliothèque is right. Eisbaer4419 (talk) 14:54, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Eisbaer4419:

Fixed; anyway, you can edit labels/descriptions/aliases in every item or property. --Epìdosis 17:40, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Property talk:P3280

Documentation

Changed format, URL is dead

error of typing

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