Talk:London Underground geographic maps

Takes hat off

To ed g2s and James F. for the maps. They're excellent. --Tagishsimon

I second the above statement! At the risk of upsetting anyone, akin to the French 'London carto rail map' (sic) (sorry, don't have url to hand) Tfel63

They are the best maps for 'real' Londoners. Walk from Charing Cross to Embankment. Very cool. BMS 2005-07-21

Worth the price of admission on their own! Man vyi 20:35, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks guys. I've got a really nice version of the Zone 1 map overlayed onto the Google map of the area [1], but unfortunately it's non-GFDL-able. If anyone knows of any sort of free map of London that would be extremely helpful. ed g2s • talk 22:34, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Would be a cool Google Maps project to add your geographic tube map as an alternative view. Anyway, when are the scripts being released so we can do our own lines. Codom 11:43, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Awesome! Is it possible to overlay (ideally Zone 2) on a live Google Map, so you could pan and zoom? 81.168.28.109 14:08, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I'd just like to say "Great work" to everyone involved in this. I can't wait to navigate in London with your map rather than TFL's one. --Cfp 22:14, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to add my praise - these are awesome. Have you shown the person(s) who do the graphic design at TFL? I'm sure they'd be mightily impressed, and they might have useful feedback. Also surely the London Transport Museum would make good use of them (maybe they have similar stuff already). -Iain Shepherd 147.114.226.174 14:23, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

GPS?

I'm impressed and intrigued. How are you gathering the GPS data when the lines are underground? --84.92.128.107 00:41, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Due to the scale, the coordinates of the station are close enough. ed g2s • talk 13:31, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

There may be some strange anomalies, for example at London Bridge. LoopZilla 13:33:48, 2005-08-29 (UTC)

Well I wouldn't use the map for navigation, but it's close enough. ed g2s • talk 13:51, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Maps?

Are these maps or diagrams? They do not seem to have the correct scale (I have just looked the DLR map). LoopZilla 10:28:02, 2005-08-28 (UTC)

I have had another look. The DLR map looked like a diagram, but I am happy to agree that it is a map! LoopZilla 13:32:59, 2005-08-29 (UTC)

Up, down, flying around

Very good. But for great justice, how about adding elevation, and projecting the maps in 3d? Ashley Pomeroy 11:36:00, 2005-09-29 (UTC)

Why? ed g2s • talk 15:32, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Full Data?

The source data only has one coordinate for each station. Then it just has the information, which station is connected to which other station. But the maps you generated also show curves between the stations. A good example is the Waterloo & City line. With only two stations the source data just has two coordinates for this line. But the map show a very precise path. Also I see that some stations have more than one position in the plan, e.g. Paddington. But they are only once listed in the source data.

So the source data is propably not complete? 80.145.191.24 16:37, 12 November 2005 (UTC) (Daniel Rehbein, Germany)

Bus line maps

This is a project that's been on my mind, but I haven't the technical expertise to carry out. For all I know it may have been undertaken already (If so, please tell me where to find it!)

Would it be possible to record the points of bus stops/paths of bus routes, beginning in central London but potentially covering a larger area, and map them as an extra layer on Google Maps? Can you imagine how incredibly useful this would be? Such a project might need to be openly collaborative, due to the number of bus lines, a bit like the open streetmap project.

What do you think?

--Amanda 18:41, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Toronto

If I take GPS readings of the Toronto Transit commision subway stations, can we do a similar map for Toronto? I don't know how to make the map, but I can collect the GPS locations. When a station has several exits onto the street, do you collect each exit and average them?--70.27.29.242 14:30, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Given the zoom level, it doesn't need to be that accurate, but it's supposed to be the path of the train itself. ed g2s • talk 11:30, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Though logging the exits would also be good. Data good! - David Gerard 12:27, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Inertial navigation logging

Portable GPS is of course disposably cheap these days. Inertial systems, not so much - prices over 1000 euros instead of under 100. Tch ... pity, that would help log data on precise train paths really nicely. Does anyone have a friend of a friend with access to a portable inertial unit? - David Gerard 12:27, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Platform locations and some other suggestions

I love these maps! But I have some suggestions of how they could be even better:

• Have separate coordinates for each pair of platforms. For some stations, like Charing Cross, Bank and London Bridge, the platforms for each line are quite distant from each other. Having separate coordinates for each line would make things more accurate. I realise this would require some serious reprogramming of the entire thing, but well, it's a suggestion.
• Add direction of the platforms. Right now it seems like DLR are exiting Bank to the east, while the DLR platforms at Bank are more north/south oriented.
• Make it possible to insert waypoints in the original data. You have managed to get the curves outlined nicely on the Waterloo & City anyway somehow, but with waypoints it could be easier to understand how.

Thanks! --Boivie 08:33, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Errors / Omissions / Suggestions

1. Isn't Edgware Road (Bakerloo) the northernmost one, (Central) the southernmost?

   Not sure. ed g2s • talk 15:20, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

2. Missing escalator link Bank - Monument.

   Could be added, not essential. ed g2s • talk 15:20, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

3. I suggest using a BR-style red double-arrow graphic for Network Rail connections - the black choo-choo graphic looks like strikethough text at small scales.

   It's copyrighted. ed g2s • talk 15:20, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

4. (Not sure about this, but) doesn't the DLR line pass north of Tower Hill on its way to Bank?

   I can confirm that the Bank branch comes off to the south of the Tower Gateway, and is still to the south when it goes underground (a little way before Tower Gateway) - see OpenStreetMap - Gagravarr 14:30, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

5. How about adding some of the overground lines as well, such as Thameslink? Presumably it would be possible to have more accurate routes for them too. Quee0076 09:24, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

-- Roger 28-Oct-2006

1. As TfL have moved all the Central Line stations in the Hainault loop into zone 4 I guess the map will need amending. D-Notice

   Fixed. ed g2s • talk 01:41, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

2. Blackfriars needs to have a train symbol next to it. How about aeroplane symbols for Heathrow & London City airports and possibly showing from which stations you can get a train to an airport (like the red plane symbols on the tube map)? D-Notice

Not sure how long it's been like this, but I've just noticed that the latest Tube Map now lists Crossharbour & London Area DLR as just "Crossharbour". D-Notice 22:25, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

1. The combination map shows the line between Finchly Road and Wembley Park as shared between the Jubilee and Met lines. While the physical track may be shared, the Met Line doesn't serve the intermediate stations - shouldn't the lines therefore be separated on the map?

   It might not actually be possible, as it's a geographic map using data from GPS co-ordinates, which will be the same if the track is shared by both lines. D-notice 23:06, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

   It's been done between Baker St and Finchley Road, why not all the way to Wembley Park? Huga 10:38, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

   Between Baker Street and Finchley Road the lines follow totally seperate paths though. The Met does have additional (albeit unused) platforms at Neasden and Willesden Green btw. Generally its the same situation as the Piccadilly at Chiswick Park; same route but no stop. It would defeat the purpose of a geographic map of the system to alter it to show service patterns ungeographically. 131.231.250.38 14:13, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Tramlink? (Although I accept it isn't charged on the zones, but as buses) D-notice 20:54, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

How about getting the GPS coords for "ghost" stations and using those to generate the maps, removing any station indicator from the SVG. Specifically, I'm thinking about Down Street, which is an easy station to spot both above ground and on the Picadilly line. --Rbirkby 21:15, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Licence for station locations?

The licence paragraph at the top the page is a bit confusing. Are you saying:

1. The GPS signals coming from the sky are PD, but the list of where all the tube stations are is GFDL?
2. The list of where the tube stations are is PD, but the pretty maps made from them are GFDL?

   All of my contributions are GFDL, if the original data is PD, and I've added nothing original, then it is still PD. ed g2s • talk 15:20, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, can you confirm that all the data really is from visiting the stations with a GPS, or is some of it taken from google maps (and hence possibly copyright infringing)? Gagravarr 14:48, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Taken from NASA image. ed g2s • talk 15:20, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Future Stations on Existing Lines

These are forthcoming changes to the existing network that will need to be added or amended as and when they happen.

• Shepherd's Bush tube station becomes interchange with new Shepherd's Bush railway station early 2007
• Langdon Park late 2007
• Wood Lane 2008
• Shepherd's Bush Market (new name for existing station) 2008
• Park Royal new Central Line station 20??
• Northern Line Extension opened September 2021

Hoping to get a GPS device at some point, so if I do, I'll provide the co-ords of some of these locations MrWeeble 16:28, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

An updated version of the DLR map has appeared on the Wikipedia DLR article, which includes Langdon Park. I would add it to here, but we'd be left with it conflicting with the "all zones" map D-notice 21:33, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Little confused by these

These maps seem virtually identical [2] to the maps that the Beck diagram of 1933 [3]replaced. The main problem with this type of geographic map is the visual confusion inherent in the layout. Additionally, the interpolation of the lines between the stations would suggest that this could not be called anything but a diagram either. Given that the Beck diagram has been the basis for all of the subsequent tfl 'maps' (with only minor refinements), it seems pointless to talk of replacing them.

The purpose of the tube map is not to navigate geographically. This is why street maps are displayed at every station and why the A-Z exists. The purpose of the tube map is to outline clearly the best route between any two stations. This applies especially to interchanges. The Beck diagram fulfils these objectives to virtual perfection, and this is why it was voted Britain's favourite piece of design of the 20th Century.

This is regression rather than progress.

86.141.244.131 23:23, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I can agree with you that one of the purposes of the Beck tube map is to outline clearly the best route between any two stations. But these maps might have other purposes. I find them very interesting. This is complement, not regression or progress. --Boivie 12:03, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

(Same user, different IP) - I'm not saying that these are completely useless, but I was more than a little riled up by the over-effusive praise above and by several users' suggestions that tfl would look to replace the 'tube map' with something like this. Equally the comment about being the best maps for 'real' Londoners...Real londoners tend to walk or get the bus and don't really use maps at all. 86.143.4.91 21:38, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

DLR Maps

I manually added Langdon Park station to the DLR maps. IIVQ 22:50, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

This is a great project!

This project is really brilliant. If I were to visit London I would travel by Underground as much as possible, and I would want at least a printout of the central zone to carry with me to navigate with in addition to the system map the Underground provides. This project is not only informational, but eminently useful! Thanks everyone for the great work! 13.8.137.10 16:45, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

SVG for entire map

Does anyone know where the SVG file for the entire map is? Only the PNG file appears to be online 91.106.2.210 19:36, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Hmm. Appears we never uploaded it. Not sure if I have the code lying around; will see if we can resurrect this (and, whilst we're at it, make a few of the corrections.

James F. (talk) 23:29, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Mornington Cresent

There's a query on the main page about Mornington Cresent's location on the map.

It is correct for the map to show Mornington Crescent where it is. The lines "swap sides" at Euston then swap again near Camden Town. D-notice (talk) 21:28, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

LUL line colours

Thanks for this project -- it's really great and has helped me out once or twice! To return the favour (albeit somewhat disproportionately), depending on how perfectionist you're feeling, you may wish to peruse the TfL colour standard. This gives spot colours (incl websafe) for all LU lines. Of course you may already have matched these up (I haven't checked!). Tom 15:00 21 April 2010 (GMT) EDIT: ...two Cs in 'Piccadilly', btw...

Links

Is there a logic to the assignment of station1 and station2 in the links data (i.e. implied direction)? or is it random whether a station appears as station1 or station2? Mjemmeson (talk) 16:20, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

between-station control points

I see an interesting disclosure of geographical route map data from TfL in this freedom of information enquiry (see in particular this PDF file). Whilst the images are obviously copyrighted, I wonder whether some information content could legitimately be used for this project, in the form of a few control points between stations where there is substantial difference between TfL's between-station route data and the existing results of the interpolation model. (I'm not advocating doing this without legal advice though, in case it would infringe any database rights.)

Alternatively, it could be worth trying to reuse data from openstreetmap, if somebody knows how to. Looking at one example I know about, the wiggle in the Jubilee Line between St John's Wood and Baker Street (apparently to avoid a plague pit) is shown in their data. I have no idea where they got the data from, as that bit is below ground so clearly neither GPS nor aerial photography would have helped.

--Money money tickle parsnip (talk) 19:14, 25 November 2014 (UTC)