As the rapid evolution of technology takes its grip on every aspect of our existence, monitoring our lives, tracking our whereabouts, and yes listening to our conversations, MAMMOTH CARAVAN reminds us of a more primitive time, when the essence of survival was scraping by and worrying about the fundamentals of existence. Yet even in the world of the woolly mammoth, strange things can happen.

On a recent episode of The Doomed & Stoned Show, we speculated what a mammoth in outer space would entail, drawing implications from the cryptic name of Italian band UFOMammut.

Now Little Rock, Arkansas trio Brandon Ringo (harsh vox, bass), Robert Warner (clean singing, guitar, synth), and Khetner Howton (drums) answers our questions with the second single from their upcoming record, ‘Frostbitten Galaxy’ (2024), which sees this Mammoth Caravan heading toward the stars, as is now the ambition of humankind.

Fontman Ringo had this to reveal about the song:

“Siege in the Stars" is the first song that was written for the new album and it was conceived during a time when we had just changed our lineup and had 10 days to create a setlist of new material. Robert came up with the riffs and I started working on lyrics and once Khetner wrote his drums parts, the song became something massive and special. Lyrically the song represents the bloodthirsty mammoth king’s journey through space on his way to achieve his violent quest.

The atmosphere begins with swarthy bass and guitar swirling about like a bowl of incense, perhaps the gaseous precursor to the massive rocket flames that erupt 35 seconds later. “Siege in the Stars” vessel of fury and mad determination, with massive swing and groove 2:01. It’s a motif we’re happy to see return as the song progresses, this time accompanied by sparks of psychedelic doom guitar emitting from the ship as it jetsons into cold, black space, with massive deep beats that mete out the distance along the way.

Mammathus clan overtakes mars
Now we must fly
Martians will die
Empires of rust
Driven to dust
Nothing can stop this siege in the stars

“Siege in the Stars” was captured live for The Anvil Sessions by Holy Anvil Recording Co. in Fayetteville and broadcast by KUAF 91.3, showing us that the band can absolutely deliver on their sound. In an age of AI fakes and phonies, Mammoth Caravan is the real deal.

Look for Mammoth Caravan’s 'Frostbitten Galaxy’ (2024) emerges October 4th on Blade Setter Records on vinyl, CD, cassette, and digital formats (pre-order here). It’s a formidable sound and a must for your next playlist with High on Fire, Forming the Void, Ape Vermin, and Black Tusk.

SOME BUZZ

Little Rock doom trio MAMMOTH CARAVAN is set to unleash its second full-length album, Frostbitten Galaxy. With a revamped lineup, a retooled sound, and a violent tale of mammoths in space, the band’s next offering promises to be their heaviest and most diverse material yet.

Frostbitten Galaxy was recorded and mixed at Wolfman Studios by Jason Tedford, and mastered by Justin Weis at Traxworx. Album art by Tony Koehl.

TERMINUS is not exactly a new band, having first landed on our ears in 2012 with a humble self-titled EP, followed by a mean mother of a full-length debut in 2013. The rhapsodic second LP, Safe Travels, See You Never appeared in 2015 followed by a third album Fortune Looming in 2017.

Usually operating as a four piece, the Fayetteville band stands on their forthcoming fourth full-length as a trio with constant members Sebastian Thomas on guitar and vocals, Julian Thomas on bass and vocals, and Scott Wood on drums. ‘The Silent Bell Toll’ (2021) opens with a short, but brilliant instrumental, “Failure of Grief.” Like the recent impressive debut from Moanhand, Terminus has figured out how to mine the depths of sorrow with deep, affecting tones that you can feel right down in your gut. The net effect is like being surrounded by a sonic fortress of empathetic solitude.

This leads into “Dying To Breathe” which takes up more of a rapturous, though still somewhat bittersweet temperament. The drums are robust and strong, well-recorded so you can experience them in all their fullness. The guitars riff away valiantly, later to join in the most fantastic duet. What’s going to blow your socks off, though, is the vocals, which are dashing and heroic with impressive harmonic layering among the Terminus singers.

“Black Swan” was an early single and it’s the one that convinced me this band had something extraordinary to offer our jaded ear drums in 2021. The guitars strike a Gypsyhawk-style poise, with emphasis on the instrument’s mid-to-high range spectrum, which sets us up for an irresistible chorus. Remember when you used to sing along with metal? No band seems better positioned to bring that back the celebratory spirit of the medium right now than bands like Terminus, Void Vator, and Boss Keloid.

“The Lion’s Den” is an absolute barnstormer of a song, with elements of post-hardcore, post-metal, and modern rock, but that underlying lowtuned heaviness that gives it such grit. The vocals are once again clean, earnest, and expansive, with moments of harmony that shine brilliantly, much like the great Sacto band Chrome Ghost.

“Origin of Fossils” is an instrumental interlude that makes a statement very well without words. There’s certainly an element of fantasy about it, as if it were some long forgotten folktale. This bleeds into “The Falcon,” a track that takes wings indeed, with a galloping rhythm that would make Black Sabbath proud. By now, you’re starting to acclimate to the song style with its New Wave of Traditional Heavy Metal fervor, emotive verses, wild solos, and doomy grind.

Album namesake, “The Silent Bell Toll,” returns us to the gravitas of the first track, bearing a distinctive medieval spirit as the guitars bust out the opening section. Some may draw parallels to Pallbearer and Torche as they listen, and those are good anchors to hold on to – though Terminus once again takes everything and raises it up a notch or two with that glorious vocal approach of theirs (here the singing is a bit too high for my taste, but when the low end kicks in that hard driving doom, the contrast is very convincing.

“Dawn of Fire” lights up, but is quickly consumed by the worshipful, yet strangely narcotic organ play that introduces “Oh Madrigal,” which like the type of lyrical poem it is named for has a taste of “old doom” about it. The chorus here may be the most impactful of the record, which I’ll say again sounds positively worshipful – but not like I’ve heard coming out of any church choir. Dual guitars provide effective filigree around each tenacious verse, as the rhythm section supports the song’s development brilliantly.

Simply put, I’ve not heard anything like this album this year, last year, or the year before that, no matter how far I try to go back. The Silent Bell Toll stands out as spry of spirit and brimming with inspiration. I could see Terminus getting a huge reception at a festival like Psycho Las Vegas or Maryland Doom Fest, not to mention overseas.

Look for The Silent Bell Toll to release on August 20th, with Doomed & Stoned giving you the world streaming debut here and now (pre-order here). The album is nothing short of a wonder, hence you’re likely to see us revisit it when we come to account for great albums on Pandemic Planet in 2021.

Give ear…

Interview with Sebastian Thomas of Terminus

We invited guitarist and vocalist Sebastian Thomas to give us his take on each song on 'The Silent Bell Toll.’

1. The Failure of Grief

With this track the guitar melody came to me while playing classical guitar pretty late at night. Similar to the way authors like to talk about writing at 3am and how differently your brain works at that time, I think the same can be applied to the guitar when thinking about music. The duel lead guitars happened so naturally the next morning that I feel like I didn’t write anything and just got away with it instead.

2. Dying to Breathe

This was one of the first tracks we wrote and I was really thinking about the rhythm of the drums and vocals more than I was the guitar. We ended up re-recording the vocals because the delivery required a bit more of a natural feel which was a really valuable lesson. The main break riff where everything cuts to the guitars was something I like to write while picturing us playing live. Riffs like that can feel pretty exciting when directed at an audience.

3. Black Swan

The opening lead guitar melody is another example of something that you are not quite sure where it came from while you are mucking about on the guitar but it instantly gave me a “This is the single” type of feeling. The break riff and breakdown riff is something we had in our repertoire for a very long time and it was satisfying to finally find a place for them.

4. The Lion’s Den

This was definitely a riff first type of track that really teaches you about the importance of space within a song in regards to telling a story. My favorite vocal is when the third chorus is on its last line where we ended up layering several harmonious vocals that sound like something Queen would record on their album Sheer Heart Attack. The guitar solo at the end also has a nice unifying feel with the drums.

5. Origin of Fossils

This is a completely instrumental track that just felt like it didn’t need vocals to tell its own story. The melody came to me while driving on a highway in Arkansas and thinking about how solitude can provide a weird sense of mystical togetherness. I felt like I was gathered around a strange table of humanity in a dream and was merely a ghost. Melody sometimes conveys a floating feeling of melancholy to me but is not necessarily negative or positive. It is just there and is something I feel like I should listen to and deal with.

6. The Falcon

The opening riff reminds me of an old Irish jig coupled with something Matt Pike would enjoy playing rhythmically. We adore riffs that do their thing and then unify into a harmonious melody that can be uplifting. The break riff reminds me of an ancient boat being tossed at sea while the oars continue to plunge into the ocean and drive the vessel onward. I think the chorus was also a pretty daring risk in terms of how we balance heaviness with melody.

7. The Silent Bell Toll

This might be our Opus of the album which is why it is the title track. We were all pretty excited by its structure and loved the feat of trying to summarize the feeling of triumph and mourning simultaneously with the lead guitars. In the chorus I honestly feel like I am addressing the listener with a sense of urgency and empathy perhaps even a little melodramatically, but it is there if the listener needs the message.

8. Dawn of Fire

This track feels like more of a mood than a story in the way it sets up the last track. It feels like the morning before a great battle happens and you are on the castle wall looking down at the enemy below. You are terrified but prepared. This came to us while thinking about the way something grandiose sometimes requires a tone of foreshadowing. I love how old movies like Ben Hur used to use what’s called an Overture, where technically the movie has begun but people are still finding their seats in the theatre, talking to their neighbors, or getting a drink. The tone and music of their experience plays in the theatre delivering the various moods and themes of what they are about to go through that evening.

9. Oh Madrigal

This track is a reward to those who stick around and are looking for something on the more Doom side of our catalogue. The song feels like a closing track with lyrical messages and riffs that summarize our mission statement as a band. Though the lyrics are a bit bleak, the track closes on an ultimately victorious note with harmonious guitars that feel like they are trying to push you forward in life.

Some weeks back, Doomed & Stoned tracked down Christopher Farris Terry, frontman of the beloved Little Rock progressive sludge six-pack RWAKE to catch up on what’s been happening since Rwake’s last album, ‘Rest’ (2011) – including the more recent project Mutants Of The Monster fest and the super-group Deadbird, which released 'III: The Forest Within the Tree’ (2018) just months ago. They also compare notes on southern barbeque, tripping balls, Danzig memes, raising teenagers, and their mutual love for Guns N’ Roses. Finally, we catch wind of a new Rwake record in 2020, which is exciting news indeed for the diehards among us. As usual, I’m presenting Shawn Gibson’s interview in the most organic fashion possible, so you can appreciate the flow of the conversation. (Billy)

C.T. how’s it going, man?

I’m doing good, man. Doing good.

I’m glad we’re able to do this. Thanks for your time.

No, thank you! Man, I was telling someone the other day this is all done. Anything to do for the Mutants [Of The Monster] thing is all resources. I’m not as punk as punk rockers are! (laughs) It’s all DIY, you know? It’s friends helping out to do stuff. So, yeah, it means a lot, us talking like this.

Right on! That’s how I feel. It’s underground music for underground people by underground people. It’s that nice little family, like the patchwork. Friends helping friends out! I wouldn’t think you’d see it too much in other genres and styles of music. True camaraderie!

No. It’s a cool little community threaded out. It’s like it’s our own little thing throughout the country, ya know?

Definitely! Throughout the world.

Totally, totally.

You told me you have a new project or you’ve got something coming up, right?

Dude, I got like 50 things going on. (laughs)

I’m sure you do! I can only imagine.

Yes, it’s the Mutants [Of The Monster] show. It’s coming up soon. I hate to even call it a fest, because compared to another fest in the country, it’s not really that big. In Arkansas, to the underground, it’s pretty big – especially when you take a bunch of shows that usually draw fifty to a hundred people and we’re getting like three hundred people at it. That’s everybody you know going to those shows in these parts!

I started listening to punk and metal in middle school in Charleston, South Carolina. We would have to really go to some hole in the wall type places to see some shows. You get people showing up and you’re glad as shit people showed!

No, real glad! About ten years ago, we did this at Downtown Music, our old venue. It’s like a weekend. We did it three years in a row, mostly locals and then we would bring in a couple of out of town bands. Through the years, I started helping a friend with another thing and it stopped happening. Then it made sense to do this. Do something, because something was going to happen. I was having all these bands hitting me up. They all wanted it on a specific weekend. The first thing you think is, “Do I want to do two shows in a row?” If it’s a regular show, I want everybody to come to one of them. I had to make the decision: “I’m going to do two in a row!” We’re going to make this something that everyone is coming out to.

Nice!

Last year, it turned into what it did with all the good bands that were involved. Before last year was even done, we were already starting to book the bands for this year.

Gotta love that! Sometimes as the fan and audience member you might have to decide which day you’re going, if you might not be able to go to all events or days. “Man, Friday they have these guys. Saturday they have those guys!”

It’s the people who have driven in. They are there for the whole shebang. The locals are the ones that they’re not copped to the fact of the whole thing and they look at it like, “I want to take this night off.” So you have to make something worth them taking off the entire weekend, but I’m going to save up a lot of money. (laughs)

Shit yeah, man! When you go, you got to get merch.

Everyone seems to buying the hell out of merch. Last year was a really positive show. This year, it seems like it’s going to be doing the same thing.

What’s the name of it?

Mutants Of The Monster, after the Black Oak Arkansas song.

Wow! They are badass.

Yeah. (laughs)

I dig those guys and they are still playing, right?

Oh, yeah.

I saw a year ago they were playing shows. Badass!

Atlantic Records paid me and I made like a webisode. It was a full documentary mixed in with Royal Albert Hall concert.

What?

They played it on VH1. I didn’t get to watch it. (laughs)

Damn, man!

I was in the studio with them, like a week recording everything. It was pretty wild!

I love their music. I love Goatsnake’s cover of “Hotrod.”

Yeah that’s a rad song!

I like in the song where they are talking about going to the show, then giving Jim Dandy a ride.

Yeah. I let my wife hear that for the first time. She was like, “Did that really happen?” Who the fuck knows? (laughs)

No telling!

In the world of Jim Dandy…

Those guys have stories for days!

Yeah, completely.

What are some other projects you have going on?

It seems like I got a lot going on, but there’s not really any work going on at all. I play in Deadbird. I do samples and chords. Any of that auxiliary kind of stuff, backup vocals. We play on cool shows. (laughs) We played that Migration Fest last year. That was sick! We have a show with Phobia and EYEHATEGOD coming up that’s sold out. We have some shows this summer. Even though we have a new album came out, we already got new songs in the works. It’s fun.

Always have a little something on the back burner, something in the pocket.

The guys in Deadbird – Jeff that’s in Rwake, the drummer, is in Deadbird also – we are like the new guys in the band. We are the only ones that live in like central Arkansas, like Sherwood area. Everyone else is spread out. They are the core members. It’s two brothers, the Schaaf brothers on guitar on drums. Alan Short is also on guitar and vocals. They all do vocals. We always have a thread going and always sending new riffs, new ideas. Getting together with them is a lot of fun! It’s not like any other band practices. It’s weird. It’s like a bunch of cousins getting in the room and drinking. (laughs) It’s fun!

A lot of camaraderie. You guys are tight and have a very good vibe.

Everyone’s working so much and we all have kids. When everyone goes out of their way to drive down, like three hours for a band practice. We make a weekend of it. We are cooking out. We’re hanging out. We don’t get to do that a lot. Even though I might be putting on a lot of good shows, I don’t go to all of them. I can’t. Even if I do, I don’t get to run into any of my old friends, ya know? It’s like a new scene. It’s the times. So Deadbird practices, yeah, they’re the best! (laughs)

Stories for a later time. A separate interview, huh?

Totally! I’m also working on moving the [Mutants Of The Monster] fest to Hot Springs Arkansas. I’ve been going up there and having meetings about raising money for artists. All the venues will be in small theaters, really original shows. So yeah, I’ve been working on that. Even though I should be concentrating on this year’s, I’m already working on next year’s.

How much goes into all that? Is coordinating with venues tough? The reward is worth it, but what are the technical aspects of putting together a fest?

Technically, I have a crew of buddies. This buddy of mine, Drew, we started cooking catfish together at like nine, I think. We just got tight in a kitchen doing what we have to do, you know what I mean? Get through the weeds, to have everything come out on time. A few years later, I started booking in a local venue. It started out as a nightmare. It’s come around 180 degrees and brought it to a really good spot. He was the manager at that time. When it came down to doing this last year and it was getting way too big for me to fuck with. My mind was…

…turning to mash potatoes! (laughs)

It really was! I don’t even know if I reached out to Drew. He’s the kind of buddy that probably reached out to me and asked: “Yo, what are you going to do? This is the situation. This is what I would do here.“ He started going over everything. We have a small crew of guys, two other buddies. One hardcore buddy, Jordan, who was always by the stage with Drew. Then we had a floater buddy, Corey, who would be the kind of guy who is like, "Oh, they need this?” and run to the store or run to Guitar Center if we had to type of situation. It always left Drew and Jordan managing the stage. The sound guy didn’t even have to worry about any of that just because they had it down so well. When it comes to that, I don’t worry about any of that stuff. I’ll say this: last year we were almost an hour ahead of time with so many bands.

Damn! That’s rare with shows. That’s on it!

That is something that never happens! I mean nev-er! (laughs) Seven bands in a time period from like seven-to-midnight, ya now? It’s just that we were on top of our shit.

Right on. From writing, having had a radio show, and being a fan in the audience, you get there at doors and see the first band two hours later or something. I can imagine it’s a headache for musicians and promoters putting on shows.

This year, we’ve taken on some more. We’ve added a band onto the list. I think we are going to be good. The only thing I usually worry about at this point is when I wake up in the middle of the night and think, “Eight thousand dollars I got to come up with or whatever!” (laughs) I lose sleep. “How am I going to get this out?” It seems like all that has past, because once the poster is done I start getting a little more attention to eyebrows being raised. Stuff like this where you and I are talking and I’m already watching the ticket sales meet up to the guarantee. This year, there’s something I’ve never had: sponsors.

It helps.

Dude, it helps everything.

Big time.

Man I’m incredibly grateful for that! I had a friend, Kyle he’s one of the sponsors. He came to me with the idea. He’s kinda like Drew, who runs the stage; it was his go-for with the sponsors, ya know? He was like, “I know people that want to back you. I know people that would back you, especially 'cause they know you can get artists here. It pushed me so hard! Knowing these people were doing this, I just wanted to get more quality stuff, ya know? I wanted to impress them as much as I could on the level I could without killing myself. (laughs)

Of course.

It’s really nice! It’s doing real good this year. Okay, like you said something about venues. It’s such a small town, we really don’t have that many venues that deal with original music, ya know? It’s not like Austin Texas, where it’s like seven venues on one street. They all look the same almost and you just go back and forth, ya know? Dude, if we have to change venues, they’re not next door to each other. The venues have been really cool working with me. I want to do something more original. That’s why I want to move to Hot Springs. It’s a fest, but it’s only three hundred people max, you know what I’m saying? Compared to the festivals, at least in our country, it’s not really ["huge”]. But here in Arkansas, it’s a big deal for the underground. Not just Arkansas, I’d say mid-south. The whole mid-south is like the butthole of the country! (laughs)

It is! There’s a lot of good music here in the south. I try to represent and music that you’d never hear on mainstream radio, especially from the south. I love this shit and been doing it many years. There’s a lot of good music from the Carolinas.

Totally. It’s affordable to do things in the mid-south too. The price range jumps once you get out of it. It’s easier to get a venue. When I move to Hot Springs, I could send you pictures. They are in nice theaters. Technically, there’s no more seats than three hundred. It looks nice. It looks amazing. It looks dramatic. You’d be like, “Wow, if I could see Cough in this room!” (laughs)

That would be badass.

When we move to Hot Springs the numbers will be the same, but the quality’s going to be different. Like on a steamboat on a river. The sky’s the limit as far as doing original performances. I know you heard about Sunn O))) playing in a cave!

Oh yeah! That’s where it’s at!

That’s the kind of stuff we can pull off in Hot Springs, because the entire city is an art city and they back you. “Oh you want to play on the top of the hill that overlooks the whole city?” They back that kind of stuff. So hopefully this year is sick and we move to that.

What makes you laugh?

Most everything. I’m easily amused. I laugh at tragic stuff. (laughs) I don’t mean it in like a bad way.

It’s a nervous laugh. Sophomore year in high school they came in and said, “Mrs. So-and-so passed away.” I had the nervous laugh come out.

Yeah it could be like, “She ruled!” or “She sucked!” (laughs) Right now my daughter has this smartass little attitude going on. We gotta nip it in the bud, but it sounds so clever. (laughs)

You try not to smile! You put your hands over your mouth when you smile.

I put my hands over my face!

You look at your wife, “Take care of this. I can’t handle it right now.”

Dude!

My thirteen year old son has an attitude problem right now, as well. I keep yelling at his ass! I get it.

I’m laughing easy and I need it, too, because I’m easily just as stressed! To wake up, catch a smile even if it’s from an old Warrant video! It’ll make my day ya know?

What’s been an awkward moment in any of your bands: Rwake, Deadbird, Ash Of Cedars?

Hmm. They are there. I don’t know if they could be like addressed at the moment.

Like you are on acid and you go into a grocery store and there’s like six cops buying doughnuts! (laughs)

In the Rwake days, I wish it would get awkward. We always pushed it to where it was past awkward and to the point of are we going to live through this!? Are we going to jail? (laughs)

That’s one of the reasons I love Rwake! You can hear how out there the music is, so I’d imagine how out there you might have been in the moment.

I wish there were awkward moments! We fought each other on tour and it never got awkward. Still raging the whole time. We never acknowledged the moment, ya know? If something is happening like we get pulled over and we’re all going to jail and there’s drugs all over the place. It’s not awkward anymore. (laughs)

Damn, man.

It’s like, “Well everything is fucked at this moment.” There was this one time, maybe. We played with these punk rock kids. It was 2003 in Flagstaff, Arizona, and the band was Stab City Slit Wrist. It was two singers, female and dude, and they were just like fucking crazy crust punk, but bigger. We were all on substances at this time. (laughs) My mind was out there on stuff. This was the night I chose to break out my leather pants. (laughs) There was also like a punk GWAR kind of band that opened before us, an artsy band dressing up and did theatrical kind of stuff. My friend gives me these leather pants and I was like, “I’m going to bring em on tour!” The band was like: “Dude, you keep those put up the whole time we are on tour!” (laughs) They were like, “Do not bring that shit out!” I remember like, “This is the night!”

Get real toasted and put 'em on!

Dude, I was trippin’ like out of my mind! I already justified doing it, because I’m on a spiritual plane of existence. I was just like, “No one can touch me!” We go and we spent the night at these peoples house and I’m burning up. It’s Arizona and I’m wearing leather pants ya know? Dude out of nowhere I took my shirt off and was like, “Who gives a shit ya know?” The singer of Stab City goes, “Oh, it’s that kind of party!” Every dude in the audience takes their shirt off! (laughs) Rwake looks over at me like, “You fucking asshole!” (laughs) This is what Alice Cooper’s original band must have felt like. It wasn’t awkward to me, of course! I remember looking at Rwake. I say Rwake, I mean Brittany. Brittany looks over at me like, “You motherfucker!”

So you’re like Jim Morrison out there? (laughs)

Yeah!(laughs) Leather pants, snake skin boots, no shirt.

WOO!

The after party at the house was shirts versus skins! That was semi-awkward, but not for me! We made really good friends with them.

What are some other projects you’re involved with at the moment, besides Mutant Of The Monster?

I do a radio show and make compilations of all the local stuff. I play in another band, Iron Tongue, but we don’t play that much either. It’s like most of the stuff I do, I don’t do it that much. I could say I play in a lot of bands, but it’s stuff that doesn’t happen that often. Rwake played last year at the Mutants fest and that was a really cool thing. It was cool to get together and play a new song – that was really cool! Rwake, we have a whole album written, recorded basically. Not recorded to put out, but like a demo.

Wow!

You know, we have to figure out how we’re going to do it as a band. Reid [Raley] is busy all the time. If he’s not touring in his other bands, which they tour a lot, he is constantly on the road. He’s a real busy dude! Our other guitarist, John, lives in Nashville, Tennessee or Murphysboro. So it’s tough for Rwake to get it going, but it’s there when we can figure it out. We’ve all put it on our radar for 2020.

Awesome!

We are hoping to record the full album by then, somehow. We have a full album written and more stuff. We are going to do the Black Sabbath thing.

Oh, yeah! Volume Four, Magnetic Eye. It’s the redux. They did 'The Wall’ – fucking amazing record. Did you hear that one?

Yeah. ASG, Pallbearer are on it.

They did a damn good job, great covers of classic Floyd!

Yeah. We are ridiculous Zakk Wylde fans, so when we saw he was going to be on there it was like, “Oh god!” (laughs) Rwake’s not a working band, like a lot of bands. We really didn’t expect to get on it. Then they put us on the other one that’s going to be coming out. We are going to do “The Writ,” so it really seems like we have just stepped in it! (laughs) It’s like the biggest song in the world. That’s a no matter what, we are doing that! It is supposed to come out in 2020. As a band, that’s some of the stuff I’m doing. We are talking about how are we going to record this, what is the structure going to be like? The Deadbird thread is up and constantly going. If we are not talking about new songs, we are joking about something. We had this awesome thread going on about Danzig. Jeff sent this picture of Danzig’s left breast, then I put puppy dog eyes on it. Then we were also talking about Danzig’s cover of “N.I.B.” sounds like he’s saying, “Your loaf of meat.”

(Both of us try our best Danzig impressions)

I saw something that said Danzig will cover Elvis tunes. That made me spit my beer out! I also imagine him wearing the white suit with the cape.

He’s takin’ it so over the edge there. He was born for this!

Is he going to wear the suit or what?

Oh, wow! Probably black leather, ya know? That’s what he did. Remember the Misfits video, where it’s just them on stage. There’s a pyramid. That, to me, when I see that, is like you just ripped off Elvis’ live video. That’s how his concert was on stage like that. Small band and he’s sitting in a chair with a guitar. He wore the black leather suit. I think it was Elvis '69 or something I saw what he was doing. I appreciated it, I push for it. Danzig you go, girl! (laughs) Just do it! Feel good about yourself! Don’t hurt nobody!

Don’t practice your Jeet Kune Do on anybody!

Practice on the stage in front of us while we’re down on the floor watching you. (laughs) Shit, I’ll pay extra for that!

I like to ask folks in southern states if they have good barbeque where they are from. How’s it fare in Arkansas?

There is this place that is growing called Whole Hog, which originated here. When you walk in there, there’s trophies out the ass. They’re sauces mostly. There is a place right down the road called Pig and Stick. It’s the fucking bomb! There’s a place that’s been open since the seventies, in Levy, called Mick’s BBQ. It’s ran out of this small little room. The smokers in the back are bigger than where you’d eat. That’s where I learned to cook barbeque when I was a kid. He opened up a restaurant and it didn’t last long so he just went back to his original place and he’s still open. That’s where I learned to put it on, to spin it, how long that kind of stuff. There are multiple places here. You can tell that about them when you show up to these places in a small town. When you look at the back in the smoking room and you think: “Jesus, this place has been up since the '20s!” (laughs)

Some of the best places I have gotten barbeque from looked like sheds or shacks. There are several like that in Savannah.

They are not winning the awards, but…

…they have some badass barbeque.

Yes, they do! Yes they do. We have good catfish places here, too.

Nice! I love catfish.

You want to find a place that makes their own hushpuppies – that batter their own shit up. Those are the places. Grandpa’s Catfish has been around awhile. That’s where Drew and I worked together. I worked there almost ten years. They were ran out of the house. They were there since the early '70s. The house was falling down and they had to move into a restaurant. When they were in the house they were famous, because right when you came to the table you got this bowl of peanuts to crack and eat. What was so cool is they didn’t care if you dropped your shells on the floor. So every time anyone would walk across the floor, you’d here crunch, crunch, crunch of peanut shells. As a seven or eight year old kid, “I want to go to Grandpa’s!” and throw peanut shells on the floor! When they moved into an actual place is when they’re like, “You can’t do that!” It’s not legal to do this. We’re like, “Okay.” They make the best hush puppies I’ve ever had. Even working there and I was making it, I still couldn’t understand the magic. I never got sick of it. There’s a magic in hushpuppies!

What’s some damn good books you’ve read?

I recently finished the Slash novel, his autobiography. I’m about to start the Duff book.

Duff’s awesome! Love his attitude. He’s always smiling.

He did a show of his book and I kind of didn’t like it. This is kind of weird man. I read excerpts from the book and I know it’s awesome. Have you read this book at all? Slash book?

No, not yet.

It’s incredible! His mother was David Bowie’s stylist, like made all of his outfits. She actually started dating him and going on tour. The Ziggy Stardust outfits and everything after that was designed by Slash’s mom.

Wow!

He was heavy into BMX as a teenager. Dude, the Guns N’ Roses stories are mind blowing! Just the shit on Axl! (laughs) I have all the KISS books. The only one that seems halfway honest is Ace’s book. The other ones seem like they are talking a lot of shit. You don’t know if it’s made up or what, ya know? Slash’s is all real. You can tell. The stories are so precise. The first time he met Izzy [Stradlin], Slash drew a picture of Joe Perry in a high school notebook at a party and he left it there at the party and left. While he was working at Tower Records, Izzy showed up and was like, “Did you draw this?” Slash was like, “Yeah,” and Izzy was like, “Cool.” (both laugh)

Dude, all the way down to the heroine stories are mind blowing! They opened up for Alice Cooper in a coliseum in LA. The whole band is there but Slash left to go find heroine. He was gone for two days up until that show. They couldn’t find him! All the way up until a minute before the concert he was like “I didn’t have a guitar around my neck.” At that time he didn’t even have a fucking guitar! He pawned all his shit! While he was recording Appetite For Destruction, the only guitar he had was that red Mockingbird. It was getting pawned, getting out, getting pawned, getting out. He never had Les Pauls. The Les Paul that he recorded that album with, there’s two made in the entire world and they are mocks, they’re rip offs. They are not Les Pauls. That’s what he recorded that album with. There was one other one, “Oh, I borrowed this from a friend.” So he shows up for the show. He walks past security through the back, where only a band would or someone working would walk through. Until he found his way through, he kept telling everyone that he’s playing tonight, “where’s Guns N’ Roses?” He said everyone was pissed off and didn’t want to talk to him. He said to that day every time they would play with Alice Cooper, Alice would look at Axle and ask, “Where is your guitar player?” even if Slash was standing right there.

Damn!

It’s funny, because Slash has recorded songs with Alice. His last two albums he’s played on with Alice. That’s just a story to come up with the tone of the recording for Appetite For Destruction and him trying to find that tone for the rest of his life. (laughs) Dude he was like “we were in this shitty little room with a rented head.” He rented this Marshall head. The company would not sell it to him. He rented it for the next two years and would not return it. They were like, “You got to fucking return this!” He returned it and re rented it. All during the process they were looking for producers during the Appetite for Destruction. It was a two-year lull before they actually went in and recorded the album. That’s the whole reason Live Like A Suicide came out. None of that is live. It’s all demos they recorded in one day getting ready to sound check for Appetite for Destruction. They threw a live track over it like people were there and they called it that.

So they are looking for producers and all that crap. Paul Stanley reaches out to them because he is looking for bands or whatever. He’s heard of Guns N’ Roses. They set up a show. Slash says, “Dude, there’s this one bar we would play.” It was the seediest bar in LA. No one knows the name, because it was never popular and it was where their fans would go, where the dope fiends would go. It was dark, dungeon-like place. “Our best shows have been there.” He said he tried to kick heroin two days prior to this. He is drinking a lot of whiskey to try to make up for it. He also mentions his guitar tech, who still works with him 'till this day, was his first night working for Slash. This was a year-and-a-half before Appetite for Destruction was ever released. They are signed, they have money behind them. Slash said he’s going behind the amp and throwing up the entire night. He’s coming off heroin, but constantly drinking whiskey. Those were his two things: whiskey and heroin. He did coke, but he didn’t make it sound like it’s a big deal. (laughs)

He said the backstage of this venue was a slender concrete hallway that went to this backdoor to an alley. So he said they played that show and Paul was like, “That was interesting.” A few months later, they do an interview for Billboard, because Appetite for Destruction is coming out. Slash still doesn’t have any guitars yet. They are talking about doing some shows and they make fun of KISS in the interview. They are about to go on their first major tour. Slash loves B.C. Rich. That is his guitar all the way up until he got labeled a Les Paul, dude. Slash calls Paul Stanley, three months after bashing KISS in the Billboard interview, “Paul, you have an endorsement with B.C. Rich, I’m really struggling for a guitar right now. Is there any way you could help me out?” Paul was like, “I can help ya out, but I’m not gonna!” (laughs)

Damn it, man!

He was like, “You should watch what you say in interviews!” Slash said he realizes what he said. They were at the KISS honors and Slash walked up to Paul that night and apologized to him. Slash was going on about how sorry he was and he’s not that guy anymore. Paul told him to shut up, because they were on live TV. “Who gives a shit about that stuff, man?” (laughs) Slash said “Okay, I just had to apologize.” One last one and you won’t have to read the book! (laughs)

Sure.

In that Appetite For Destruction lull, Slash became best friends with Dave Mustaine.

Oh, wow.

This was right before So Far, So Good, So What? came out and he had already written most of the songs. Slash was not doing heroin at the time. He got on this huge crack kick with Dave Mustaine.

What the fuck? (laughs)

They are smoking it like crazy! (laughs) They are both B.C. Rich dudes, ya know?

That’s hilarious.

He said he would go to Dave’s house and smoke crack and play guitar. Dave would play all of the So Far, So Good, So What? stuff. Dave Mustaine told Slash that he wanted Slash in Megadeth. Slash had to make the decision: Guns N’ Roses or Megadeth. This is when you’re signed to a major label, but you don’t have a producer. You have this, but you don’t have that, ya know? Do I join Megadeth or stay with my band that’s trying to do this? He finally had to say, “I’m sorry, Dave. I can’t do it.” That’s crazy, ya know? Think about So Far, So Good, So What? with Slash playing guitar on it!

That blows my mind thinking about it.

Slash gives Dave Mustaine a lot of credit to this day. “He may be a better guitar player than me.” Slash was showing up everyday smokin’ Dave’s shit and keeping up until he made me that guy. Ok, I’ll be done. There’s thousands! There’s so many cool Duff stories. It makes me want to dive right into the Duff book.

That’s what people want. I want to know what makes these guys tick. What do you do when you’re not on tour, recording, or writing? I love that shit. I love finding out what we have in common.

It’s cool to find out why it took three fucking years to record Use Your Illusion. It’s wild hearing those stories alone. I’m trying to think, Slash might have been twenty-two or twenty-three. It’s crazy! You know that Guns N’ Roses Ritz show?

I believe so.

The classic Live At The Ritz show. It was on MTV. They sound like shit. (laughs) That was a fluke. Guns N’ Roses shared a manager with Great White. Great White was supposed to play that. Slash would talk about the manager pushing Great White on Guns and Roses and mentioned touring. Slash said, “Stop pushing Great White on us, dude!”

(both laugh)

Great White was supposed to play that MTV performance and they pulled out for whatever reason. The manager was like, “Guns N’ Roses, you gotta do this!” They got on the road and went straight to New York to play that show. I was in seventh grade when I watched that motherfucker. It’s the one where they played “Knocking On Heavens Door” for the first time. Appetite for Destruction was out three or four months and “Sweet Child of Mine” wasn’t even a single yet. Dude, Axl’s wearing a Thin Lizzy t-shirt, the snap on leather biker hat. Slash is so not on, that it is on! Duff McKagan is the entire band! The come on with “It’s So Easy” and you’re like, “Where is that second vocal coming from?” It’s carrying the entire song, and it’s Duff.

Duff’s the man!

They come out like a goddamn missile at that show! It’s insane! My seventh grade mind could have had to watch Great White that night! (laughs)

You would have taken a different path.

I like Great White, don’t get me wrong. I think the whole world would have taken a different path if it wasn’t the Guns N’ Roses show at the Ritz.

You can appreciate hard rock and punk edge that early Guns N’ Roses had. Now you might find Guns N’ Roses t shirts at Walmart. Now they’re a classic rock band with the likes of AC/DC, Metallica, and so on. When you see GnR playing Moscow, Monsters of Rock tour, and there are millions of people there! It looked like Woodstock!

Man, that Slash book is so good about details. They talk about Use Your Illusion tours how they had two keyboard players, six back-up players, saxophonists. There is a point where he is like, “With all these musicians really we are a stripped down band again.” I took breaks from the book to watch YouTube videos of these performances and Slash was right. The music was stripped down. The part in the book where Slash talks about touring with Aerosmith! Somebody videotaped it from the crowd. Dude, it’s so awesome where GnR introduces “Patience” to the crowd for the first time! It’s there! Fuck this is so awesome! [Aerosmith] are coming on stage, blown! I’d hate to be Aerosmith having to follow that.

Have you seen Walk Hard?

Oh yeah!

Where Dewey Cox has to follow Elvis and he says, “Mr. Elvis, that a hard act to follow!”

Yeah! It’s a good time. I wouldn’t trust the Axl book if it ever came out. Steven Adler, just 'cause of his health, I don’t know where he’s at with writing. The stories that were told about him in that book were incredible. He was the hottest dude in the band. Chicks went to the shows to see Steven Adler. They were like nobody wants to fuck us! (laughs) Slash told a story about going to these parks where people would play basketball or whatever and they were open all night long. If you wanted to get a basketball game at 3AM, you could. He said Steven would take his entire drum set and set it up at like midnight and would play for three hours. He said it was wild pulling up on Steven and he’s playing solos in LA, ya know? I would love to hear his story.

The first two Guns N’ Roses shows were Tracii Guns from LA Guns It was Tracii, Izzy, Axle, a different bass player and Steven. Duff and Slash were the new editions to Guns N’ Roses. Axl Rose originally sang in LA Guns. They broke up LA Guns to start a new fresh band called Guns N’ Roses. It was members of Hollywood Rose, I knew that before reading the book and then members of LA Guns. I just never knew the particulars. They played two shows and had a blowout fight at the second one where Tracii quit and went back to LA Guns. Axl was like fuck it, we’ll fill their positions. Slash tried out for G'n'R for a while. Axl wanted Slash, and Izzy is a standoffish dude, so Izzy came to band practice one day and walked out. He was like, “You didn’t tell me this dude was showing up.” Axl yelled at Izzy, “This is Slash! I want him to be in the band!”

Izzy had just as much pull as Axl at the time, because he was such a weird avant artist. He’d be like, “You jam with him. I’m out of here.” He had already done the “Did you draw this picture?” two years before that. (laughs) Slash remembers the first time and what he had to do to get with Izzy, to be on his side. Slash had to get on Izzy’s good side to get in that band. I love KISS, but they have no stories like that. It’s probably the most anti-rock and roll stories. Gene got really gross and personal with all his sex stories. I mean, which could be the most lewd shit that would stand up to drug taking (laughs) or just being a weird stand up artist, ya know? Which I – sure, 'cause Izzy was on heroin, too. Duff wasn’t like them. They all dabbled in the stuff, but not even Axl. He wasn’t like that. The heroin dudes were Izzy and Slash. From what I get from it, is that Slash probably got in with Izzy that way, being heroin buddies. That’s exactly what it is.

Crazy shit.

It’s such a good book. It is real rock and roll. It’s like shit Rwake would have done really early on. (laughs) “Well, I guess we are all going to walk back home from Jackson Tennessee together and leave all our gear on the side of the road. Well, we really didn’t think about it. It’s a van, it ran to the gas station when we filled it up with gas. We thought it would have made it to Nashville!” (laughs) I see those connections.

Truly living in the moment.

Yeah, yeah. Fun times!

Is there anything else you want to push or plug?

No, I think I sold Slash’s autobiography pretty good! (laughs)

I liked hearing that. I’ll have to check those books out.

It’s hard to pull yourself away from it. I really want to plug the Mutants Of The Monster coming up. The THOU set is going to be amazing!

Goddamn, yeah!

There are going to be sets throughout the entire weekend that I’m not supposed to talk about. -(16)- is flying in just for this!

Nice!

Fingers crossed that a lot of these bands will do second sets.

Anytime you got something going on let me know and I’ll gladly share and promote it.

Thank you! Hell ya dude! Hopefully we will have some Rwake out some time soon.

Sweet!

Cool! It means a lot Shawn! Thank you, dude!

Right on! Thank you!

This year, PALLBEARER celebrates their 10th birthday and it’s certainly been a hell of a decade-long ride for the Little Rock four. These days, if you ask them, the band is more apt to describe their sound simply as “heavy” than by other labels, but to us they’ll always be a beloved doom metal original. The fact that they’ve risen to occupy the same festival bills as Slayer, Lamb of God, Black Label Society, and Testament is simply evidence to the strength of their compositions and the compelling power of their message.

As winter’s days waned, Brett Campbell (guitars, main vocals), Devin Holt (guitars, backing vocals), Joseph Rowland (bass, backing vocals), and Mark Lierly (drums) made a tour stop in Indianapolis, fulfilling a string of US dates in support of ‘Heartless’ (2017 - Profound Lore Records) – an album Doomed & Stoned was not content to review just once, but twice over. After the show (which we filmed and now post here for your enjoyment), Joseph, Devin, and Mark kicked up their feet and chatted it up with Melissa for a spell. (Editor)

First off, I just want to congratulate you on kicking so much ass since you released your demo back in 2010 or so. This is great seeing you with Ruby The Hatchet. You guys must be feeling great about what you’ve done in the first few months of this year already.

Joseph: It’s been great so far! We have a bunch of new material we’ve been working on. Obviously, we put out a new record last year. We had written and recorded that album the year before, so we have been ready to work on new stuff. Even though we’re going to be out on tour a lot this year, everyone has been pretty hungry to work on new songs. Every time we work on new music, we learn new things and continue to grow together as musicians, so everyone is just excited to work on new material. We already have five new songs.

Your latest release, 'Heartless’ (2017), is another rather conscientious album. There is a lot to be said for the musical attributes – and, really, 'Heartless’ sounds like the most comfortable I’ve heard this band – but it greatly intrigues me on a lyrical level, too. The very first track, “I Saw The End,” seems appropriate to explain the enduring life in 2017. Was 'Heartless’ inspired by the political climate?

Joseph: Well, Brett wrote the lyrics.

Devin: But there was a literal political overhanging, right above our practice space. Everytime we would walk outside, there’s a giant Donald Trump sign. So the entire time we’re writing the record and we take a break, that’s looming over us. Of course, I can’t speak for Brett’s lyrics. Maybe it subconsciously affected it or maybe it literally affected it, but I think there was kind of element in which we were aware that was there and things were changing and it was becoming a pretty negative environment at the time. I feel better now. Not that things are good, but people are persevering and fighting and there’s good things going on. At the time, it was kind of hopeless. We were practicing seven or eight hours a day and then we would go outside.

Joseph: A hate sign, pretty much, and it’s still there now. That sign didn’t go away. And there’s an element in the song, like whether or not Trump had won the world is still kind of fucked. It’s hanging over everyone and is definitely hanging over us. Even though a lot of our lyrical content is dark, we want to be optimistic. So there’s an element of, let’s just hope for the best. We’re all gonna die someday, let’s live the best life we can.

Devin: I see no point in being a defeatist. That’s the most easy, cop-out thing. Your not some kind of philosopher because you think things are shit and you’re too lazy to do anything. There’s nothing noble in that.

Did your fans respond to 'Heartless’ in the way you thought they would? I’m sure gauging the online response is difficult because trolls do exist, but do you feel you got the response you expected?

Joseph: Trolls speak the loudest, so it’s kind of hard to tell sometimes. So it’s easy to look to much into that you. But we toured for a solid nine months last year, and so many people came up to us and talked about how much Heartless meant to them. So many people would say, “This is the best album you’ve done yet!” Or even if it wasn’t their favorite, they still loved it. Just hearing fans say they love Sorrow and Extinction or Foundations, we rarely heard, “Well I love your old records, but I fucking hate Heartless.”

Mark: Sometimes there’s a little bit of that.

Joseph: (laughs) Our shows are bigger than ever. We’re playing in bigger places and more people have been coming to the shows. It’s clear it was a positive thing for enough people.

Devin: And an eclectic mixture too. People of all backgrounds. People of all ages and races and sexes and orientations. It’s awesome.

Joseph: There’s this perception even today, that online there’s a group of people that don’t like Heartless.   I just feel it doesn’t translate in real life. The real life situation has ended up being quite a bit different. All of us feel quite a bit strongly about the record. There wasn’t that “Oh man, we messed up” moment. I think it’s the best thing we’ve done. It helped us to grow as musicians, leaps and bounds. The new stuff we’ve been working on is a good sign of that. We’re always looking to evolve, learn from what we’ve done before, maybe continue to add elements that we’ve utilized before or combine with new stuff we’ve learned recently. Lately, especially Devin and I, we’ve been on a mega jazz kick. It’s affecting a lot of the new songwriting. It’s always going to be this constant evolution.

Devin: We’ve learned to keep ourselves excited about music, because it can be so draining touring so much. Last year was nine months out of the year, we have loved ones and family that we miss. So you have to keep the carrot in front of yourself. So we do that by challenging ourselves and being creative. Yeah, let’s try some jazz stuff. That keeps us smiling and motivated. Every night we’re excited to play.

Joseph: We’re constant music fans. Even if we weren’t musicians and out there touring, music is something that would still consume all of our waking life. It’s just a by-product of listening to and discovering awesome music.

Devin: We are an absolute testament to organic growth, I believe. When we formed this band, none of us were half the players we are now. And not that we’re great, there’s no ego involved, we just weren’t as good when we started. We’ve played for years now and are constantly working hard to get better. It’s been the most organic thing.

Joseph: Even as individual players, some of us were better than others but we didn’t know what the fuck we were doing as a touring band. When we were starting out, all the other local Little Rock bands we looked up to didn’t really tour - and if they did, it wasn’t much. Those were our heros. We only saw them in a home context. So we didn’t know anything about touring or what it meant to be a professional band. We learned a lot of hard lessons!

Devin: It’s the absolute definition of what it means to be a DIY band. From nowhere without an idea of what to do to becoming us. And again, there’s no ego or narcissism. It’s just been so organic. We’re all just so happy to be on the ride.

Joseph: We’re still trying to figure out how to make all this work.

Mark: Hopefully, we’ll continue to grow more comfortable and interesting to listen to.

Joseph: Being in a band is a weird thing because people overlook so many aspects that it’s almost like being on a sports team. They don’t think of everything that’s on the business side. Every day we gotta figure out where we’re gonna sleep. We gotta figure out where the most comfortable place where we’ll be rested enough.

Devin: While being able to afford it.

Joseph: We gotta make sure we’re on time to get a good sound check. Like for instance, today we had the meet and greet at Kuma’s Corner Indianapolis, so we had to be here even earlier than we would normally need to. So there’s all these logistics that go into it and I think 95% of the people out there just think that bands show up and play. We have a tour manager that goes with us on the road, but right now this is just a week long tour so we decided not to bring out the tour manager but she’s usually with us on those longer tours and we pay her. There’s so much that goes into getting up on stage and playing and doing what we love. We have to keep in mind a hundred and five other things.

Devin: Someone could be having a bad day. So you have to learn to keep your space but also have them involved but also be empathetic to what they might be experiencing. So you’re a therapist, counselor, couch philosopher, whatever. You have the tread on these waves so everyone is still able to communicate at a level that everyone is comfortable and okay. Sometimes you just wake up and it’s a hard day. You also remain thankful that people and came and paid to see you play, and you want to perform the best you can. It’s just difficult sometimes. Everyone has bad days. You feel unattractive or any sort of issue. You feel like you look like shit – or you do look like shit because you haven’t showered in three days – and people are taking pictures of you. We just want to perform authentically and be genuine. But some days you’re sick, or you’ve got allergies or whatever. It’s very difficult and I think a lot of people overlook that stuff. I see it. Every now and then I’ll see a band that’s struggling but it’s so genuine and authentic, that’s it’s special. They’ll remember that performance and you’ll remember that performance and for totally different reasons.

How do you feel being referred to as a “doom” band? Of course doom is an umbrella term, but it’s clear Pallbearer is more than that. I pick up on a lot of undertones that are closer to progressive rock than doom.

Joseph: That’s absolutely where we started. When we started this band, our goal was to make music in that style.Very quickly, we wanted to do other stuff. We wanted to add our own sort of personal touch. Going back to what I was saying earlier, we love so many different kinds of music that it consumes our lives. There was something that felt a little disingenuous with sticking to one specific thing. We wanted to bring in other elements on top of that foundation that we had.

Mark: Foundation of Burden! (laughs)

Devin: So many bands just echo the old bands and that doesn’t interest me at all.

Mark: That’s my biggest beef with doom.

It’s a very oversaturated scene, for sure.

Joseph: When we started out, there weren’t all these local doom bands around. There weren’t these Sleep/Electric Wizard imitater bands all over.

Devin: Black Wolf Goat Mountain. That’s like every other fucking band.

Joseph: Well, that hadn’t quite happened yet. And you know what, that’s great. There’s always going to be bands that are after that. If you’re playing locally with your buddies, you wanna smoke weed and play sick riffs, that’s great. That’s not quite the same motivation we have. We are always looking to challenge ourselves. Maybe that’s what those guys are doing too, it’s just in a different state or realm. I don’t want to downplay what those bands are trying to do. We just very quickly grew out of wanting to emulate these tone bands.

Devin: Like amp worship shit. I like amps too, but there’s a thing where you’re gonna sound like Black Sabbath or Sleep or Pentagram. You eliminate those things and there’s only twelve bands left.

Joseph: If we’re talking amp worship, I’ll take Robin Trower’s amp tone versus Electric Wizard’s amp tone.

Devin: You’re not gonna be better than those bands. Why rip off Sleep? Because it’s not going to be as good. Ever. Fucking ever! You’re never going to be as good, ever. And there’s so many bands that do it. It’s cool if you’re jamming and shit, but if you’re really trying to perform or be genuine about it, I don’t understand the drive of sounding exactly like someone else.

Joseph: There’s no band that we’ve ever been like, “Dudes, let’s just make a song that sounds like this.” There might be an idea that’s one part of the song, that gives way to entirely new ideas. But never like, “Let’s recreate Dopesmoker.”

I really think Pallbearer is one of the key bands that helped the doom scene in really becoming so popularized in the world of metal.

Joseph: Without sounding like an ego maniac, I feel like it’s a pretty easy conclusion to make. It’s blown the fuck up. I don’t really know of anyone else that’s really quite on the same level. Windhand was out there.

Devin: Yeah, Cough, too.

Joseph: Windhand and Cough, both of those bands are at the forefront.

Devin: There are definitely bands doing it. None of us want to take any sort of sole credit. If there was a first wave the American style of doom that is real popular right now, then we were probably on that first wave.

'Sorrow and Extinction’ (2012) – definition of a masterpiece.

Devin: Thank you.

I see you will be out on a massive tour with death metal greats Obituary along with some thrashy bands like Skeletonwitch and Dust Bolt later in the year. Are you trying to reach out into new areas to find new fans? Do you think your EP with the Type O Negative and Black Sabbath covers helped push you into new territory?

Devin: We’ll play a darker toned set. It’ll be more condensed since we’re doing direct support. It’ll be a darker set, for sure.

Joseph: It’s not a tour that I don’t think any of us would seek out, but one of our goals is to find people out there that enjoy deep and heavy music, but haven’t necessarily heard of us yet.

Devin: The worst metal fan in the world is the fucking ignorant bigot that just likes one type of metal. That’s so stupid to me. It is the dumbest, funniest thing and I’ll laugh at you all fucking day.

Preach!

Devin: A lot of people like Candlemass and Obituary and Metallica and Pentagram or whatever. It’s all metal, people call it different things. So I’d love to play on a death metal tour. We’d rather do that than play with five other doom metal bands that all play mid-tempo shit. I love mixing the genres up.

Joseph: One of my absolute favorite bands that we’ve ever played with is Cianide.

Devin: They’re so sick.

Joseph: A band that is completely and theoretically outside of our style of music, but they’re so great. We talked to them after the show, they’re fans of us and we’re fans of them. It was fucking great.

Mixed bag shows rule. Like the last time you guys were here, that was a great show with Kayo Dot. I’m a big Maudlin of The Well fan. I personally really enjoyed that and it was my first time seeing you guys, as well.

Devin: Ninety-percent of my metal friends would say the same thing. Why not bring a band like Kayo Dot to a show? People that listen to metal oftentimes listen to other shit.

Joseph: There’s nothing more boring than a show and every single band is exactly the same. Not just as a musician, but also as a music fan. I don’t want to go to a show if it’s the same goddamn thing for four hours. That is not stimulating, in any way. The Obituary show is something that our agent put together. He also works for Obituary, so he asked if we would be interested in doing it. “It’s different, but yeah we’re interested.” When it’s like this, our own tour with Ruby The Hatchet, we wanted to doing something that is memorable, stimulating. We want people to walk away excited about it. There’s something for everyone out there, even if they don’t like us. Maybe they’ll enjoy the other bands.

Any future potential covers? Your Type O Negative cover fucking ruled.

Joseph: We’re doing “Run Like Hell” (Pink Floyd) very soon, actually. We’re recording that in April. We’re always talking about new cover ideas.

When I had heard that you guys covered Type O Negative, I was not sure but then I listened to it and damn! Pete Steele’s voice is so deep and I was not expecting that.

Joseph: Brett’s voice is actually really deep.

Devin: He’s got a lot of range. That wasn’t manipulated in any way. That’s just him.

Joseph: A number of people have said that they thought that was a sample of Peter Steele at the end of the song. And, no, there’s no sample – all Brett.

Devin: No autotune shit. We are very morally against that shit.

What’s the most important personal lesson you’ve learned from being in Pallbearer?

Joseph: Don’t play through four full stacks and expect it to sound good.

Devin: Stop believing that music theory can find you. It’s not a prison, it’s just a path.

I understand this is one of the last dates on the tour. What’s next for Pallbearer?

Joseph: As I said earlier, we have some new material that we’re working on. A lot of that will not all be on one record. We’re doing a song for the Adult Swim Series that should be coming out in April. Then the Pink Floyd cover. We have a few other things happening. We’ll be touring pretty consistently until September or so, then it’s going to be writing time for the next record.

Thanks for chatting with Doomed & Stoned, guys, and best of luck with the road ahead!

PALLBEARER have always been a very special band to me, one that I have always commended for not only being one of the few able to bridge the gap between traditional and modern doom (perfecting Warning’s formula), but also for their skill at crafting songs with a true sense of grandeur. Writing a great riff is one thing, but writing a song that makes you feel profoundly humbled is in a different league entirely and the Olympus of bands being consistently able to do so is very small in my opinion. At this point, there should be no misunderstanding as to where I stand regarding Pallbearer. The band has always been a trusted companion of mine whilst exploring doom and I have been listening to them on at least a weekly basis ever since my initial discovery. ‘Heartless’ (2017 - Profound Lore Records) was without a doubt my most anticipated record of this year, even more than the much rumored about Sleep record. In short: I am a fan. Big time.

So, how does Heartless fare?

To get the obvious things out of the way, it’s a vastly different record in comparison to their previous Profound Lore releases, ‘Foundations of Burden’ (2014) and 'Sorrow and Extinction’ (2012). It was interesting to see some discourses about whether Heartless is a progressive record or not, owing certainly to it being much more adventurous than on the preceding monolithic slabs of doom. Among the most striking changes on Heartless is a heavier reliance on vocals, evident on album opener, “I Saw The End,” which liberally employs frontman Brett Campbell’s mournful wail and even throws in some vocal harmonies and canons toward the end, acting as a climax before it erupts into an explosion of guitar leads, bringing the song to an end.

“Thorns” follows much of the same recipe, kicking in the door with the most righteous of chug-riffs and adding in yet another gorgeous pinched guitar lead in that will have you clench your fist and go, “Mmm, so fucking good!” It’s these moments in which Heartless thrives, and the album has them in spades. The grand culmination of these moments is the album centerpiece, “Dancing in Madness,” with its impressive dramaturgic arc. The almost Gilmour-esque solo at the beginning shifts into a big, celebratory riff, then slowly picking up the pace, getting gradually bleaker, into the middle section accentuated by short, heavy-hitting chugs and shouted vocals (a first for the band). Being unable to bear its own weight, “Dancing in Madness” gives way to a short acoustic section, before concluding in a wash of graceful intertwining soli by Devin Holt and Campbell, reinforced by his heartfelt lamentations.

Title track “Heartless” seemingly conducts business as usual, down to Mark Lierly’s ever prominent cymbal work, until unexpectedly vanishing into a quasi-ambient section with distant whispering, then bringing back the main riff with metric tons of heft. Things come to a halt (to recollect our thoughts and catch a breath) before the band propels itself into one of the record’s pinnacle moments of triumph: Campbell knocking it out of the ballpark with his very best harmonies (fist-clench worthy, again).

The exceptionally bleak “Cruel Road” picks up where the middle section of “Dancing in Madness” left off, reeking of despair. The later proclamation of “until my body collapses” is one of the most intense passages of the record, once again making use of shouted vocals at the perfect time. Fans of Devoid of Redemption will find much to appreciate here.

“Lie of Survival” with its beautifully strummed outro and even more so the album closer, “A Plea for Understanding,” channel Pallbearer’s soft-spoken side, the latter being the other major highlight, besides “Dancing in Madness.” Bassist and backing vocalist Joseph D. Rowland and his deeper voice take up a more prominent role here, lending some contrast to Campbell’s emotional outcries. Together, they express a deep sense of fragility and vulnerability. It’s a brilliant way to send off Heartless on an emotional high-note, very much akin to YOB’s “Marrow” off 'Clearing the Path to Ascend’ (2014 - Neurot Recordings), and it lays the listener to a very graceful rest. Pallbearer delivers on the promise of their name.

Now, as to why I refer to Heartless as “The Great Divider”: it’s going to be a maker or a breaker for many people. Though by no means short on great moments and riffs, Heartless is just missing those big “money riffs” as I like to call them that made songs like “Devoid of Redemption,” “The Legend,” “Worlds Apart,” and “The Ghost I Used To Be” into the mainstays they are. It’s somewhat of a departure from the proud, monolithic doom anthems of old towards shorter, less riff-driven and more in-the-moment songs. However, most bands can only hope to write one such riff in their whole career, so the ratio is still very much in favor of Pallbearer.

The cleaner production and the heavier emphasis on vocals will not appeal to everybody (there is no secret to Campbell’s singing being a somewhat polarizing subject matter, but you cannot accuse him of not having poured in a lot of effort to become a better singer). That said, I do plea for people to give Heartless the time it needs. I did. For one of my first listening sessions, I hiked to a high plateau near my house. Gazing upon the scenery that surrounded me with Heartless playing in the background was a deeply cathartic experience, putting me at a profound peace. I felt fully rewarded for each and every step I took to get to the top. They made themselves a name for being able to evoke the absolute maximum of emotion out of a simple strum, a single line, a sole beat, and nothing has changed in that regard. In my mind, a band of such emotional impact comes only once every decade (make the calculation, Neurosis, YOB, Pallbearer, it’s that Olympus again), and for that alone, not even taking their boldness to create such a radically different record into account Pallbearer deserves all the recognition they can get.

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Marking their second collaboration, Calvin Lampert and Jonas Ulrich from Heavy Rock Switzerland tracked down the doom sensation Pallbearer, on their tour with British blackened sludgers Bast, for an interview with lead singer and guitarist Brett Campbell and bass player Joseph D. Rowland. While this took place earlier in the year, we thought it would be worthwhile to bring it to you and especially interesting to fans of the Little Rock funeral doomers. If you’re more of a “watcher” than a reader, Jonas has put together two excellent vids with excerpts from the full interview for you, both included in this piece. I’m also throwing in some footage I shot from the Pallbearer/High on Fire tour this summer, which I coordinated with Mike Thrasher Presents when the band landed in Portland, Oregon. Enjoy! (Editor)

How are you guys doing today?

Brett: Excellent!

Joseph: Great!

How’s the tour been so far?

Brett: It’s been a blast… It’s been a Bast! (laughs)

Joseph: Yeah! It’s been really great and our crew is really good as well. It is a lot of fun to play with Bast.

This is going to be a big year for you when it comes to touring. Europe, the US, and for the first time Japan and Australia. Anything you’re particularly looking forward to?

Brett: Everything. I mean we’re really looking forward to Australia and Japan, since we’ve never been there before, but we play a lot of places in Europe as well, where we haven’t played before.

Joseph: And it’s cool if you are at places we’re you’ve been before as well, because you know some of the surroundings and do stuff we didn’t get to do last time.

So you’re not at that point yet where you’ve given up on sightseeing cause you’ve seen it all.

Brett: Not even close.

Joseph: We’ve given up on sightseeing cause we’ve never had the opportunity in the first place. We always talk about it and then it never happens.

What else besides sightseeing do you do on tour to kill time? Books? Music? Movies?

Brett & Joseph: All of it.

Joseph: And a lot of looking at our phones when we get to the venues. We need that Wi-Fi.

Brett: I really ty to walk around a bit, but most of the time there is no time for it. See if there is any good food in the area or a bookstore where I can pick up new stuff to read.

What are you reading right now?

Brett: Accelerando by Charles Stross. It is about the approach of the technological singularity and what happens around it. It’s pretty cool.

Joseph: I have a couple of books as well that I am reading right now. One of them is The Savage Detectives by Roberto Bolaño, which is like a semi-fictional account of his life in a poetic movement in Mexico City in the 70’s and 80’s. The other one is called Magical Urbanism which is about the Latino-Culture in the US and how it is changing the face of all the urban areas. They’re the largest minority in the US, and it changes a lot of things.

Any bands or albums that you enjoy particularly right now?

Joseph: The new Bell Witch album is really good. Brett and I stayed up all night listening to it, drinking like idiots on the bus while everyone else was asleep.

Brett: We drank two bottles of wine and finished a bottle of whiskey while listening to this album.

Joseph: And then drunkenly wandered the streets of Brussel at like 8 in the morning.

Brett: People were getting to work and we were staggering around like “There’s got be some way to get some food around here!”

Did you seem them when they played at Psycho California?

Joseph: We got to see them for only ten minutes since we had just arrived then. But we’ve played with them before. They’re great guys. I don’t really listen to a lot of new heavy music.

Brett: And I am just out of the loop. It’s not intentional, I don’t have internet at my house. We spend so much time on the road so I don’t get to listen to as much music as I’d like to.

Joseph: I am just more interested in seeking older releases than keeping up with the new albums coming out all the time.

So, you collect vinyl?

Joseph: Yeah, I like to buy vinyl. If I have time on tour I like to go and browse record shops for used, older releases, particularly.

Brett: Europe’s great for finding Krautrock. That stuff’s just hard to find in the US.

Where do you see your musical roots? What bands inspire you?

Brett: Oh man, so many bands.

Joseph: All the bands that have a color in their name: Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Pink Floyd.

Brett: Or if it is named after a place.

Joseph: Boston, Kansas, Asia. So, there you go, this covers pretty much everything.

I just keep asking because when I listened to Sorrow and Extinction for the first time I had never heard anything like it before, this grand, emotional sound. Having dug now deeper into the genre the only band that feels a bit similar to me would be Yob.

Brett: We love Yob. That’s an influence as well. And the bands from our home-town scene in Little Rock, Arkansas, like Rwake and Deadbird. And Funeral Doom.

Joseph: The old 90’s death-doom stuff, like Anathema.

Brett: It’s a really small place, but it has a great doom metal scene with its very own sounds I guess.

What’s the key to playing music that is crushing at uplifting at the same time.

Brett: Uh, I don’t know. Everybody else just thinks it is uplifting.

Well, I don’t know, but I just feel like there is this positive undertone, but it is hard to pinpoint.

Joseph: It’s because we listen to so much dad rock.

Brett: We just try to have a lot of complex melodies which I guess can be uplifting because it is overwhelming and satisfying from a pure aural standpoint. But for me it is just trying to get the emotions across. But yeah, I guess it can sound uplifting to some people. It is not like purely fatalistic like a lot of doom metal is, it comes more from an humanistic, day-to-day life.

Joseph: I feel like the stuff a lot of people consider uplifting is more triumphant. But it doesn’t have to be positive to be triumphant. It can be sad as well, or well, melancholic mostly to me.

Brett: I don’t really analyze it that much from a writing standpoint. I’m more like “Fuck yes, this part needs to sound like this”, you know.

What was the idea behind including Ashes on Foundations of Burden? It is quite a change in sound.

Brett: You got it, it’s for a change in sound.

Joseph: We were trying to go for Richard Wright (of Pink Floyd) playing style. Something more mellow and derived from progressive rock.

Have you ever played that one live, as well?

Joseph: We haven’t yet, but we hope that we can maybe one day do a reinterpretation of it.

How do you feel the band has grown over time. How did it all begin?

Brett: Uh, well I mean, as we get more comfortable with sculpting our sound. And the way we write songs we include more elements into the music that maybe we didn’t have the means to do so before. Like on the first album we really had kind of gotten what we wanted the band to sound like. It is a very pure sound; the whole album has this one kind of vibe. And for Foundations we wanted to diversify, have some different tempos, textures, guitar sounds and experiment more in the studio with panning and Vocals. On our next album is going to have even more elements.

Joseph: Just continuing to build on the Foundation.

Which brings me to my next question: Fear and Fury was released earlier this year. Is this a lookout to the next album? It was pretty short by your standards.

Brett: That one’s actually an older song that was written immediately after we finished recording Sorrow and Extinction. So, that one is actually more like a time capsule than a lookout to the future. But yeah, we have shorter and longer songs on the next albums. Which is kind of a challenge because already all our songs are basically as short as we can make them. We’re not trying to write super long songs, the just end up that way.

Joseph: And every song just ends up being…

Brett: … 9 or 12 minutes.

Joseph: It always ends up being like that, no matter. When we start working on it, it ends like that.

Brett: When I am writing I am thinking: “Oh, this is going to be a short one, that’s great!” And then it ends up being another 13 minutes.

Must be a pain in the ass to do set lists as well.

Brett: Oh, yeah!

With all the positive press the emotional doom metal you and YOB play having received so much praise even outside of the metal scene, do you feel like doom metal could be the next trendy thing?

Brett: Who knows?

Joseph: I am not really sure.

Brett: It is not really up to me to decide.

Joseph: We’re just doing what we’re doing and Yob is doing what they’re doing. And if people are having an emotional response…

Brett: And if people are having us and like what we’re doing then that’s good.

[In reference to Joseph wearing a Deafhaven shirt - Editor]: Like Deafhaven bringing black metal to a much wider crowd. It’s a very traditional scene, and many people disliked their melodic approach because many “hipsters” like it.

Brett: I can’t speak for them, but I feel like they’re very melodic and more accessible to an extent. And we’re very melodic and accessible as well, and it works for both of us.

Joseph: They are playing different styles. It’s not just shoegaze or black metal. They blend it all together.

Brett: They don’t worry to stick in some traditional version of what black metal is supposed to be. They don’t care, at all. They just do what they do. In that sense we’re similar.

Joseph: We like all kinds of music, and if we think it fits we’ll try to mix it into Pallbearer.

I see a lot of “gateway” bands nowadays. I, for one, attribute the quick rise of Conan in doom metal not only to the doom metal scene itself, but maybe also people outside of the subgenre. Conan must hold a big appeal to people searching for heaviness, even if they don’t listen to doom. I feel like it could be the same thing with your band, as it might satisfy an emotional demand.

Brett: Could be.

Let’s talk about the artwork. Who’s the figure on your covers, is it Death?

Joseph: We never talk about that.

Brett: Intentionally mysterious.

Eddie #2?

Brett: Yeah, totally. We’re going to have a nine foot tall Watcher-character on stage the next time!

I suppose you see your music as catharsis.

Brett: That’s the whole intention.

I read an interview that stated that the first album was very personal for you. Is it the same with Foundations?

Joseph: Any of the lyrics I wrote were very personal.

Brett: Well, I have to sing them every night, so I wouldn’t want to sing about something I don’t care about. There is more sociological lyrics on the second album, but there are still things that are personally important to me.

Is it very hard to sing every night and reproduce the mood?

Brett: It can be. It’s gotten easier over time the more we played these songs, but early on it would take me about half an hour to become my normal self again because I’d get so drawn in. It’s easier to transform back in nowadays, but when I am on stage I am channeling what I was feeling at the time of writing. But I try to leave that on stage and be as happy as possible outside.

Is it getting harder to maintain this level of personality in front of increasingly bigger crowds?

Brett: It was hard to just release the first album. I had weeks of high anxiety. Even though the lyrics are very metaphorical I was still very nervous. Some people have gotten remarkably close in what the original meaning was, but I am more comfortable with it now, because people have come to me and told me how the lyrics and the music have helped them through difficult times in their lives. So I understand it. It is valuable. Now I feel like I am hopefully doing something good for someone.

Joseph: People create their own story for the lyrics, and it seems to help them. More than anything it’s what I hope people get out of our music. Make it your own.

Brett: Which is also why we generally don’t explain the lyrics. It would ruin it for someone. We wouldn’t want to ruin it for them. It’s like Ray Bradbury with Fahrenheit 451. He was insisting that it was not about burning books but about television. And no one gives a fuck. “Yeah, dud, you wrote the book, but you’re wrong.” Sometimes it is better left alone.

Do you see your music as more traditional or progressive?

Brett: Both. It’s rooted in a lot of traditional movements and ballads, but we try to have as much interesting songwriting as we can.

So, you are working on a new album. When is that on the horizon?

Brett: Only a rough estimate. After our tour with High on Fire we’re taking at least 6 months off, to let things settle and give our bodies a rest from all the touring.

So, you already have some riffs and new material?

Brett: Oh yeah, we’re pretty excited.

And I heard that you guys may do a split with Uzala, right?

Joseph: Oh, that was a thing that we talked about like 5 years ago.

Brett: If it ever does happen, it will be something else. Originally it was going to be Fear and Fury. We eventually thought we were never going to record that song, until Decibel approached us to do that Flexi-Disc thing. It’s a short song, and we like it. It didn’t fit on either album. But we won’t do any splits now.

Joseph: Yeah, we really like the guys of Uzala, but we don’t have any plans to do something together right now.

I still hope it works out one day.

Joseph: They’re a great band and great people. We stay with them a lot when we hit Boise, Idaho, where they live.

Also in the middle of nowhere.

Brett: Something about the middle of nowhere just makes people write doomy stuff, I guess.

Alright, maybe a stupid question, but if your band was an animal, what kind of animal would it be?

Joseph: A nasty dog! (laughs)

Brett: Street dog!

Alright, thanks for having us. Enjoy your meal and good luck at the show!