Module talk:et-IPA/old

p, t, k versus b, d, g

It seems that this module transcribes b, d, g as [b̥ d̥ ɡ̊], whereas the Wikipedia article does not use these symbols, so would would perhaps transcribe them as /p t k/. In listening to recordings, I think some cases of p, t, k are pronounced as [pː tː kː], for instance between vowels. For example, this recording of aitäh from Omniglot sounds like it has a double tt to me. But I am puzzled because some Estonian words have a double tt in the spelling: for example, ettur. So then would there be a distinction between the tt of ettur and the t of aitäh, or are these different ways of writing the same sound?

A bit rambly. To make this more pointed: I am wondering if Estonian b, d, g should actually be transcribed /p t k/, and if some instances of p, t, k be transcribed as /pː tː kː/ and others as /p t k/. The Wikipedia article does not make it clear how the phonemes /p t k pː tː kː/ are spelled: in what way they correspond to the letters b, d, g, p, t, k. — Eru·tuon 21:12, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Estonian makes a three-way distinction between /b̥ d̥ ɡ̊/, /p t k/ and /pː tː kː/. However, the difference between the latter two is generally a matter of consonant gradation. There is also voicing assimilation, which makes st appear instead of sd. —CodeCat 21:20, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Also, as for Wikipedia, see its talk page. —CodeCat 21:21, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Pinging @Strombones as well, who is a native speaker. —CodeCat 21:26, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

The current transcription is accurate. Transcribing "b","g","d" as /p/, /k/, /t/ would just be confusing. They're different sounds. "aitäh" is a weird word because it has final stress. In "kabi" (hoof), "kapi" (closet-GEN), and "kappi" (closet-ILL, closet-PART), the difference between the three words is extremely clear. When initial though, the difference can erode, but not always.Strombones (talk) 05:44, 1 June 2017 (UTC)