Talk:pity
Add topicLatest comment: 1 year ago by Al-Muqanna in topic RFV discussion: June–July 2023
In the song lyrics of Manfred Mann´s song "Davy´s on the road again" there appaers the sentence
Sez if you see Jean now ask her Please - to pity me
This meaning of pity does not seem to fit in any of the meanings offered in the article?
- It seems like "feel sorry for", which is the verb + the first noun sense. DCDuring TALK 19:10, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
How should more's the pity be mentioned? --Backinstadiums (talk) 12:59, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
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Rfv-sense: piety Inventor of Skating (talk) 12:25, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
- OEd only has Middle English and Scots for this sense, and also mentions Our Lady of Pity, where "Pity" evidently means piety. This, that and the other (talk) 05:28, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- The OED says it means "piety", but I'm not sure why they came to that conclusion. "Our Lady of Pity" seems not unlike other titles, like "Our Lady of Mercy"--although the Wikipedia article for Our Lady of Sorrows does give "Our Lady of Piety" as an alternative for that title. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 02:02, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
- Cited. @Andrew Sheedy, This, that and the other: The problem is that, as a number of sources note, "piety" and "pity" are not clearly distinguished concepts in early modern English. In the case of "Our Lady of Pity", it is simply rendering Latin pietas (see second para and footnote here), and in e.g. the Salve Regina "pia" is now traditionally rendered into English as "loving", but "pious" is also found in some translations. Broadly, in its original Roman context, pietas means primarily familial obligation, which for Christians came to encompass duties towards God, and in principle Christian piety enompasses what we now call pity in the sense of compassion. So "pity" and "piety" are two sides of the same coin in early modern texts, though even in the 16th century they are starting to be distinguished. With that vagueness in mind, I've collected three citations from EEBO which I think are almost certainly better understood as "piety" than "pity" in the modern sense. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 15:51, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
- Good work! I'm satisfied. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 17:56, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
- Me too - excellent work as ever. This, that and the other (talk) 00:40, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
- Good work! I'm satisfied. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 17:56, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
- Cited. @Andrew Sheedy, This, that and the other: The problem is that, as a number of sources note, "piety" and "pity" are not clearly distinguished concepts in early modern English. In the case of "Our Lady of Pity", it is simply rendering Latin pietas (see second para and footnote here), and in e.g. the Salve Regina "pia" is now traditionally rendered into English as "loving", but "pious" is also found in some translations. Broadly, in its original Roman context, pietas means primarily familial obligation, which for Christians came to encompass duties towards God, and in principle Christian piety enompasses what we now call pity in the sense of compassion. So "pity" and "piety" are two sides of the same coin in early modern texts, though even in the 16th century they are starting to be distinguished. With that vagueness in mind, I've collected three citations from EEBO which I think are almost certainly better understood as "piety" than "pity" in the modern sense. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 15:51, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
- The OED says it means "piety", but I'm not sure why they came to that conclusion. "Our Lady of Pity" seems not unlike other titles, like "Our Lady of Mercy"--although the Wikipedia article for Our Lady of Sorrows does give "Our Lady of Piety" as an alternative for that title. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 02:02, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
RFV-passed. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 13:26, 23 July 2023 (UTC)