Talk:B-theory of time

I was unsure if the last paragraph that refers to William Lane Craig added anything that couldn't be inferred from the last few paragraphs, but the link to 'incoherence' is actually to a music album, not to an epistemological concept. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.155.64.10 (talk) 13:52, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

It seems to summarize it at least, and I fixed the link to incoherence.--TMD (talk) 11:53, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Temporal Philosopher

William Lane Craig was President of the Philosophy of Time Society from 1999-2006. That more than qualifies him as a temporal philosopher. If this was a Christian theology article, it would be appropriate to call him a Christian theologian. but the article is about the metaphysics of time, so I will revert any and every attempt to change his title from temporal philosopher. --TMD Talk Page. 03:30, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Support by physics

The B-theory is also not supported by physics. The Neo-Lorentzian interpretation of relativity is empirically equivalent to the traditional Minkowski interpretation of spacetime. The former has an absolute present. Furthermore, the topology of time is a metaphysical issue, not a physical one. --TMD Talk Page. 03:30, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

??? The B-theory is not supported by physics? Says who? How many physicists hold to A-theory of time? I was of the clear impression that B-theory was a pretty much inevitable corollary of the general theory of relativity, which is why (non-physicist) William Lane Craig has been criticised for pushing A-theory. Furthermore, the claim (I suppose it's Craig's, given that I think I recall him saying something like this) that the "Neo-Lorentzian interpretation of relativity is empirically equivalent to the traditional Minkowski interpretation of spacetime" is actually a problem for such a "Neo-Lorentzian" interpretation because it means insisting on an undetectable ether/privileged frame of reference. Mojowiha (talk) 15:21, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

It's not undetectable. the microwave background radiation serves as the aether frame.--TMD Talk Page. 19:09, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Source, please. While I admit to being a non-physicist, I've never any suggestion that microwave background radiation has anything to do with a preferred frame, since the latter refers to how we distinguish between the "real" and "illusionary" time in Neo-Lorenzianism. Mojowiha (talk) 07:32, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

When are objections by philosophers and when are they by William Lane Craig

As I've mentioned before in the edit history, I inserted specific references to William Lane Craig in the two cases where the source was only Craig's work. TMDrew has now twice reverted my changes, the second time without any explanation, though I clearly stated the reason why I undid the first reversion: If the opinions/objections are not solely Craig's, then extra sources need to be added to substantiate this. Claiming that something is the opinion/objection of "philosophers" (in general?) and then only citing a single work of Craig's is simply an example of not backing up a claim with solid sources and verges on weasel wording because it effectively lets Craig speak for "philosophers" (in general?). Furthermore, I changed the wording from Craig "Craig explains" and simply stating that B-theory is "burdened with heavy philosophical problems" because that implies that Craig (he's the only source for both objections) is definitely correct. Thus my version makes it clear that this is Craig's criticism, which is what the sources bear out.

The upshot is that I'm going to undo TMDrew's revert (again) in a day or two unless the sources are changed to reflect the wording or vice versa. Hopefully, this notice will prevent an edit war.

PS. I've posted this on TMDrew's talk page too, but as that page seems to be wiped regularly, I've made my actions and the reasoning behind them public here as well. Mojowiha (talk) 20:32, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

ADDENDUM: When I undo TMDrew's revert (again), I'm also going to fix the Arthur Eddington and John Laird citations to make it clear how old these quotes actually are. Eddington has been dead since 1944, and Laird since 1946. So the correct reference is to Eddington is not from 2010, but from page 7 his 1927 The Nature of the Physical World: Gifford Lectures. Likewise, the proper reference to Laird not dated 1969, but 1940 (based on his 1939 Gifford lectures). The quote can be found on page 145 in this 2013 republished version. Even worse, I think both of these are actually "stealth quotes" from/by Craig, since the Eddington quote found in Craig's The Tenseless Theory of Time: A Critical Examination (p. 171) and the Laird one a mere 5 page further along (p. 176). It's simply unclear why Eddington's and Laird's view from, respectively, 87 and 75 years ago are somehow indicative of current thinking about B-theory and time in general, or whether it's just an example of Craig digging up some outdated scholarship which happens to support his views. Mojowiha (talk) 09:01, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Why is there anything on the view of Craig at all, the guys an absolute crackpot, and is not at all reposted by the physics or philosophy community, he simply comments on theories, critiquing them if they do not fit with his religious beliefs. This needs to be taken out of this article. Heuh (talk) 16:03, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Craig was President of the Philosophy of Time Society, and the 12th most cited name in philosophy of religion. I have tried to eliminate the "WLC says this" and "WLC says that" from the article to keep it from turning into an advertisement for the guy. If you mess with these edits, I will take this to the admin boards.--TMD Talk Page. 00:02, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Eliminated all mentions of WLC in the article.--TMD Talk Page. 00:06, 19 December 2014 (UTC)