Talk:Valar

Valar has been listed as one of the Language and literature good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: February 7, 2023. (Reviewed version).

Fictional characters

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Fictional characters, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of fictional characters on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Fictional charactersWikipedia:WikiProject Fictional charactersTemplate:WikiProject Fictional charactersfictional character articles

Middle-earth Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle-earth, which aims to build an encyclopedic guide to J. R. R. Tolkien, his legendarium, and related topics. Please visit the project talk page for suggestions and ideas on how you can improve this and other articles.Middle-earthWikipedia:WikiProject Middle-earthTemplate:WikiProject Middle-earthTolkien articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
Note: Though it states in the Guide to writing better articles that generally fictional articles should be written in present tense, all Tolkien legendarium-related articles that cover in-universe material before the current action must be written in past tense. Please see Wikipedia:WikiProject Middle-earth/Standards for more information about this and other article standards.

Archives

1

Nessa (Middle-earth) article

I am writing to respectfully request a reconsideration of my recent article submission on Nessa, a character from J.R.R. Tolkien's legendarium, on AfC.

The article I submitted is a detailed analysis and exploration of Nessa's character, translated from an original French article. This submission is distinctively focused on aspects that are not extensively covered in this main article. While this indeed mentions briefly Nessa's story, my submission delves into her character development, thematic significance, and her role within the broader context of Tolkien's world, providing a comprehensive and focused examination akin to existing articles on other characters from the legendarium.

I believe this detailed approach, enriched by the translation, aligns with the standards of contributions to the franchise and offers additional value to readers seeking in-depth information on Nessa. Given that other characters within the franchise have their dedicated articles, I am confident that a similar treatment for Nessa would be beneficial.

I look forward to a response. I am open to any suggestions for modifications or improvements to ensure the article meets the necessary criteria for publication.

Andreachlc0203 (talk) 14:31, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The article is indeed detailed; as you say in the draft article, she is a minor character in the legendarium, and I see you have delved deeply into Tolkien's manuscripts, unpublished during his lifetime, to create a descriptive text.

The main issue with the article, and I presume the reason its move to mainspace was declined, is that most of the citations are primary (to Tolkien); those sources do nothing to establish whether Nessa is notable in Wikipedia's terms.

Of the other sources, you have a ref to Carpenter's Biography of Tolkien - you don't say which page but I think this must be a very brief passing mention which would not establish notability.

Foster's Guide does not establish notability either, as it just repeats what Tolkien says, arranged as a dictionary or encyclopedia to make things easier to find.

Varda/the Valar Guild is a fan society and not likely to be considered a reliable source, unless a scholar like Ferrė is writing.

López 2004 might possibly be a useful source, but the link you provide does not show the Portuguese text so I can't say whether it's actually helpful or not.

Burns 2005 is a reliable source, and I have her book 'Perilous Realms' here. Nessa gets 4 very brief "passing mentions": none of them enough to contribute to notability, I'm afraid.

I have Chance 2004 (Tolkien and the Invention of Myth: A Reader) (you didn't cite the editor, but never mind that now) which contains your "Burns 2004" ref. Nessa gets one paragraph at the end of page 174, which I guess is about enough to make this a usable source: unfortunately at the moment it's the only one in the article; and it's basically purely descriptive, except for Burns's comparison "Like the Norse Skadi (a giantess who marries a god)" and then "Unlike Skadi, then (and unlike Diana or Artemis), Nessa is a huntress only in garb and guise." which do say something interesting and scholarly, if only very briefly: and I see you've only used the first part of this, which is surprising as the second part (being unlike Diana/Artemis, who I take to be just one goddess with both Latin and Greek names, but who knows) is at least as interesting.

All in all, then, the article is at the moment almost entirely primary-sourced and descriptive. If we are to bring it to mainspace, it needs at least 3 sources as good as Burns 2004. The focus needs to shift from description (not notable, and should be limited to about 600 words) to analysis (notable, by scholars, critics, etc, and that can be as long as necessary).

I hope all this is of some help to you, at least in understanding how English Wikipedia works. It may well be that French Wikipedia is more relaxed about Notability than we are; each wiki has its own rules. All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:27, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]