Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Table-glass

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. No clear consensus to merge. Can be discussed on talk page. So Why 15:14, 11 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Table-glass

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Fails WP:GNG, current article consists of a bunch of trivia, legends and other dubious statements, with no reliable sources with extensive coverage of the subject. Omgwtfbbqsomethingrandom (talk) 21:18, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: You are kidding, right? Why this article and not the whole lot in Category:Drinkware stubs? Was WP:BEFORE followed? Was WP:ATD considered? Sam Sailor 22:44, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Not kidding at all. Many (though not all) articles in the category you mentioned have at least some useful references which can be used to verify some of the claims about the article's subject, but this particular glassware object does not. All of the references I've found (and I've searched for a long time) were 100% self-published "fairy tales" which aren't very encyclopedic, per WP:SPS and WP:UGC, and I highly doubt that adding some tag like "refimprove" and leaving this article as it is would be useful to anyone (especially seeing that no one else could improve it in meaningful ways in YEARS after this article's creation). Even Russian Wiki admits that the origin of this particular glassware is "unknown" and it also consists of a bunch of trivia and "legends"/theories (Which is ok for that Wiki because most people there don't care about silly things like WP:V or WP:GNG). But hey, it is still possible that I overlooked some sources and maybe this nomination will work much better to encourage someone else to find some useful, reliable sources (and not just another unproven theories about who created it or when or why exactly it has so many facets), in which case I will only be glad. If not - it should be deleted and only recreated when such sources will be found by someone.Omgwtfbbqsomethingrandom (talk) 23:23, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk • ✍️ Contributions) Please ping me if you had replied 03:33, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Wine-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk • ✍️ Contributions) Please ping me if you had replied 03:33, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Mythology-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk • ✍️ Contributions) Please ping me if you had replied 03:34, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Hungary-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk • ✍️ Contributions) Please ping me if you had replied 03:34, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk • ✍️ Contributions) Please ping me if you had replied 03:34, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ukraine-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk • ✍️ Contributions) Please ping me if you had replied 03:34, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: the glass came to symbolise the Soviet era; it's a notable cultural icon. The glass was called a "design classic" by Financial Times here: "After the second world war, more than 500m glasses were made each year to be used everywhere, from the Kremlin to prisons". K.e.coffman (talk) 20:11, 31 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Another source: Nothing humbler than the tumbler: 5 facts about the legendary Soviet glass. "Sept. 11 is the anniversary of the ubiquitous but humble Soviet glass tumbler. The sturdy, bulky and convenient everyday item became a symbol of the Soviet era, and was popular among housewives and alcoholics alike. While it has been largely replaced by more elegant vessels, it is still in use."

Perhaps the article should be moved to Bevelled glass (drinkware) or Bevelled tumbler. "Table-glass" is an odd name. K.e.coffman (talk) 02:30, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The RBTH source that you provided is as unreliable as the current links on the article page - it is full of unsourced myths and assumptions, and even it claims that "There are no official documents proving Mukhina's authorship but in 1943 she headed the Leningrad Artistic Glass Workshop, so the creation of the renowned glass is usually attributed to her". Same goes for Financial Times article - it's just a reprint of theories/myths. Even the year of production is dubious because it's not mentioned anywhere on the official factory's site (or any other historical documents). And as far as all those myths/theories go, there are even sources which assume that this specific glassware was actually invented on US territory (based on some paintings and on glass pressing technology used for manufacturing such glassware). Should we use THAT myth/assumption too (and remove the "Russian inventions" category from this article's page)? Or should we just try to stick to verifiable facts from reliable sources (such as official museum pages, official manufacturer pages or some historical publications)? And if we can't find those - why not to simply remove all those "fairy tales", or (and I am being serious here) just rename the article into "Myths and theories about granyonyi stakan"? Omgwtfbbqsomethingrandom (talk) 00:25, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment : That glass does not "symbolise the Soviet era"! It never did. It might "sympolise" (i.e. bring back memories of) past times in the former USSR, but this type of glass was omnipresent around Europe, western and eastern. -The Gnome (talk) 11:15, 24 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 01:07, 25 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as above, and easily too. -The Gnome (talk) 13:42, 25 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Merge into Tumbler (glass). Made in Russia: Unsung Icons of Soviet Design confirms the notability of the topic but a heavy-duty drinking glass is a fairly commonplace item. Andrew D. (talk) 18:09, 25 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: There seems a growing viewpoint that notability is established, but an unneeded ContentFork has been mooted as an alternate reason for deletion/merging
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nosebagbear (talk) 11:08, 2 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Selective merge to Tumbler (glass). My searching for granyonyi stakan found lots of hits, but they're almost all to sites like pintrest, ebay, or etsy where you can see pictures of these, or buy them. None of that satisfies WP:RS. I'm satisfied that this does have some cultural significance, so adding something to the parent article makes sense. A wholesale merge of all the content would violate WP:UNDUE, so just bring over the most significant (and sourced) things. Don't forget to repoint the existing Granyonyi stakan redirect. I suspect this argument applies to pretty much everything in List of glassware and Template:Glassware, but that's another AfD. -- RoySmith (talk) 13:35, 11 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.