The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to the Balkans or Eastern Europe, which has been designated as a contentious topic.
This article was reviewed by member(s) of WikiProject Articles for creation. The project works to allow users to contribute quality articles and media files to the encyclopedia and track their progress as they are developed. To participate, please visit the project page for more information.Articles for creationWikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creationTemplate:WikiProject Articles for creationAfC articles
This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the project-independent quality rating in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ethnic groupsWikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groupsTemplate:WikiProject Ethnic groupsEthnic groups articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sociology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of sociology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SociologyWikipedia:WikiProject SociologyTemplate:WikiProject Sociologysociology articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of History on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Historyhistory articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Eastern Europe, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.Eastern EuropeWikipedia:WikiProject Eastern EuropeTemplate:WikiProject Eastern EuropeEastern Europe articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject North Macedonia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of North Macedonia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.North MacedoniaWikipedia:WikiProject North MacedoniaTemplate:WikiProject North MacedoniaNorth Macedonia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Greece, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Greece on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GreeceWikipedia:WikiProject GreeceTemplate:WikiProject GreeceGreek articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome, a group of contributors interested in Wikipedia's articles on classics. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our project page. If you need assistance from a classicist, please see our talk page.Classical Greece and RomeWikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeTemplate:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeClassical Greece and Rome articles
This article uses a lot of semi-abstract social sciences jargon, but doesn't really cover some of the more specific and concrete issues created by antiquization -- including the fact that in some cases it leads to irresponsible irredentist and territorial expansionist claims (or the rhetorical appearance of irresponsible irredentist and territorial expansionist claims, which can be just as bad for external relations). For example, the Republic of Macedonia leaders freely lay claim to the legacy of Alexander the Great and ancient Macedonia, but most of the core area of the ancient Macedonian Kingdom (including its capital Pella) lay within modern Greece. Most of the modern Republic of Macedonia lies within what was a late-conquered expansion area of the ancient Macedonian kingdom (Paeonia etc.), rather than within ancient Macedonia proper. Similarly, the first version of the modern Republic of Macedonia's flag was based on "antiquizing" a symbol found in tomb excavations in Vergina, Greece around 1978 -- so it was very reasonable to interpret that flag as laying a claim to Greek territory.
Under "reasons and motivation for antiquization", there's a lot of theoretical sociology jargon, but no mention of the basic fact that a Slavic Macedonian ethnic-linguistic identity (as opposed to a Slavic Macedonian geographic identity) barely existed before the 1930s (or even the 1940s), so that the post-1991 Republic of Macedonian authorities have felt the need to over-compensate by making inflated and grandiose claims to sometimes- remote historical legacies... AnonMoos (talk) 08:46, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I agree about the strange use of semi-abstract social sciences jargon. The article is also too long for reading. However there is a difference between the process of macedonisation, that occurred mainly during during the 1940-s and that of antiquisation, which occurred at the beginning of the 21 century. Jingiby (talk) 09:11, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I don't want to recapitulate the Macedonian identity formation article(s) in this one, but one of the obvious main "reasons and motivation" for major historical appropriationism is the need to compensate for the relatively shallow historical roots of a separate Macedonian ethnic-linguistic identity (which was mostly just idle intellectual theorizing before the 1940s, though discontent with forced Serbian assimilation was real enough even earlier). However, this is only tangentially alluded to in the "reasons and motivation for antiquization" subsection of the article... AnonMoos (talk) 09:01, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I have inserted the "Essay-like" template on this page because it feels too much like a personal reflection, and seems to ignore NPOV. Dunutubble (talk) 16:26, 25 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It would probably take the collective effort of hundreds of non-Greek and non-Macedonian Wikipedia editors to rewrite this page in a more neutral, unbiased, centrist, moderate tone. Epitome of Creativity (talk) 09:40, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]