Deasbaireachd a' chleachdaiche:Gunmhoine

When creating new category intead of old, please use [move] function or copy interlanguage links too. 188.120.198.98 13:01, 27 dhen Dùbhlachd 2014 (UTC)

Kibi78704

Hallo, a Ghunmhoine! Taing! Tha mi toilichte d' fhaicinn.
I am not really working over here, but I saw an article that begged for an edit. I made a home and talk page, just in case someone had something to say about it. I am acutally working more in en.wictionary about :gd: topics while trying to increase my vocabulary.
Tìoraidh! Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 01:26, 2 dhen Ghearrain 2015 (UTC)

Halo, a Ghunmhoine. Tha mise an seo. :) Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd)

Teamplaidean, Teamplaidean, Teamplaidean! (agus Mòidealan, neo-ar-thaing)

Halo a Ghunmhoine! I have (I hope) ported over the templaid:rfe, and all of its dependencies, of which there were many. If you run into any missing template/module errors, let me know and I will port them over. It is late, and I need sleep. :) I was able to create several articles tonight. It looks like our biggest need is for templates to make editing quick and easy. I like the templates you have created for -nl*-; I copied them to -en*-, and used some of them. You have been very busy! Good job! Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 11:12, 5 dhen Ghearrain 2015 (UTC)

Halo, a Khibi (Chibi, probably..). I am from nl.wiktionary and know little about en.wiktionary templatology, so you might have teach me... Gunmhoine (an deasbaireachd) 18:18, 5 dhen Ghearrain 2015 (UTC)

We can teach each other. :) Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 18:33, 5 dhen Ghearrain 2015 (UTC)

Bug in Teamplaid:-noun-

Hi a Ghunmhoine. I am not familiar with reporting problems on Wikipedia, Wictionary, Uicipeid, or Uiclair, so forgive me if this is the wrong place to do so. I am a software test/quality assurance engineer; I am trained to try to find and iosolate issues, or at least report them when I find them.
I noticed thay there is a problem with how Teamplaid:-noun- is creating a category page on Iníon. It is making Ainmearan na Gaeilgee instead of Ainmearan na Gaeilge. I am not completely sure how that template works, so I am having trouble fixing the problem myself. Can you teach me how to fix it? Taing.
BTW - "a Khibi", "a Chibi" no "a Chiorstaig (?)"; your pick. Akerbeltz once told me "is mise Ciorstag air na Gàidhlig"; I forgot until just now. :) Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 20:09, 5 dhen Ghearrain 2015 (UTC)

{{-noun-|en|something}} will suppress the -e {{-noun-|af||h}} will add the h- before vowels. Maybe not elegant but I was more trying to add content for the moment. I am trying to add a statistics template from nl, where I'll run into the same problem. Have to come up with a clever way to deal with this. Maybe give a parameter in the language templates like {{gd}}, {{nl}} etc.?

Hmmm. I messed up again then.

I just replaced "==Gàidhlig==" with Teamplaid:=gd=, and "===Ainmear===" and Teamplaid:-noun- with Teamplaid:-ainmear- (and so on for all the other parts of speech) for all of the "Faclan na Gàidhlig(e)" in an effort to get an accurate count of words in your new Teamplaid:/Stadastaireachd. At least all of the Gàidhlig words are consistently showing up in single containers rather than in semi-duplicate containers of variable titles. Unfortunately, the totals are now all 0. :)

It won't be too bad to change it back in most cases, except the couple where I either alphabetized a long list, or got the columns working. Even there, it is a very quick fix. Better to have everything consistent for easy maintenance later.

Just for clarification, you are going for a single, global template to handle all cases (of a particular lemma) rather than several specialized templates? Viz, Teamplaid:-noun- will replace Teamplaid:-??ainmear- (et cetera), correct? I think that is that is the better approach for maintenance reasons, as well as statistics. It is always better to make changes in a single location rather than what I am doing now. :)

Yes. I think -nlaimmear- -nlnoun- etc should be reserved for inflection tables

I saw some cases where you had a second parameter to Teamplaid:-noun-, which was either "no" or "h". Is that working? Parameters are the most elegant way to handle exceptions, in my opinion.

Yes 2=something suppresses the genitive ending 3=something adds the h- for vowels.

My question is whether "Gàidhlig" should be slenderised or not in phrases like "Faclan na Gàidhlig(e)" and "Ainmearan na Gàidhlig(e)". I just finished making it slender throughout, but with the idea that I could change the templates to "unslenderise" ("deslenderise"?) it if I misjudged. I just did not realise I was replacing with the wrong teamplaid.

No big deal if I must go back to restore Teamplaid:-noun-, but it should be done correctly this time! Let me know the correct command and parameters for "Faclan na Gàidhlig(e)". Once that is working, I'll apply the same fix to other languages so we can get a good count.

Maybe I should be asking you for tasks rather than acting like a bull in a china shop. I seem to keep making more work for myself, and generating a great deal of chaos. Not my intention at all!

Could you total each row in Teamplaid:/Stadastaireachd so that we can more easily tell if we have uncategorized words in any given language? The totals of each lemma type for any given language should match the contents of "Faclan na *", right?

By the way, I am having house guests next week for two weeks (on and off). I'll be in and out until they leave.

As far as I understand the language, which is not so far to be sure, the language names are typically feminine, that means that the article should be "na" and it is not followed by lenition, but you do get h- before a vowel. The ending is usually -e for the many names that end in -is (Duitsis, Basgais etc.) However there are also names that are unchangeable like Beurla and Gàidhlig and I suppose that also goes for endonyms like Xhosa or Hakka. So that means you need two options: with/without -e after and with/without h- in front of the word and you end up with four instances. But I may very well have missed something, which would mean running into complications later. This is one reason I decided to concentrate on what I know best: add content in my mother tongue and deal with any and all complications later.

I think there is a way to sum things in tables but I'd have to look for it. I considered doing it at nl.wikti but did not bother because there can be more than one language-lemma on a page and a word can very well be both a verb and a noun, so the sums would not add up anyway. Another (little) problem is that PAGESINCATEGORY also counts subcategories as valid entries. Don't ask me why. I do not find that very logical.

Yes you are a bull :-), but this place can use one. It needs to be better streamlined to have a chance to ever come to life (which I am not too hopeful about, but I am a stubborn Dutchman). I do have a concern with all the Beurla you are adding: in that it may deter mothertongue speakers. That means that we do have to find appropriate terminology for things as much as we can and that is hard in a language we do not speak very well.

If you are a software person I can certainly think of some desiderata, e.g. collapsable inflection tables. I have a very complete table for Dutch verbs I'd love to put in, but it is really huge, so it would have to go on separate page or be collapsable.

Anyway we are mostly here to have fun and learn some more Gàidhlig

Have a good time with your house guests! I really appreciate your flurry of activity here. It was kind of lonely here.

Gunmhoine (an deasbaireachd) 14:51, 6 dhen Ghearrain 2015 (UTC)

Very good points.

Streamlined is great. That means it will be more maintainable. I, too am very persistent, and enjoy creating streamline, efficient, reusable, and well documented software.

Please do not hesitate to point out where I am doing anything of concern, especially adding Beurla. I value honesty. Do you meant the templates and scripts? Yes, there are templates and scripts that would make life very easy for us which I have been trying to add from en.wiktionary. However, since it is behind the scenes, I was hoping that English would not be a deterrent. I hope to be able to translate the documentation some day. Other than that, I have been trying to use Gàidhlig terms for everything else.

Behind the scenes is certainly less of a problem. At nl.wikti we actually kept many of the -templates- for headers and such in international/English to facilitate non-native speakers contributing. But we have had discussions about that with people protesting about that and on other wikti's people did insist on native terminology. E.g. af.wikt has -s.nw- for -noun-.

OK, I will keep that in mind.

I have not found the documentation for the unchangeable language names, but I had seen information about feminine names, and slenderization without lenition. OK, so is {{-noun-|gd|no}} the correct template to replace in all of the Faclan na Gàidhlig terms? I would like to repair the damages I did, as soon as possible.

Yes, that would work. {{-noun-|gd|anything}} would work too. Sorry for lack of documentation: I was alone here.

No worries about not documenting it. Most programmers I have worked with never document anything. I'm used to it. :)

Interesting news! It is not the template that drives your {{/Stadastaireachd}}. It is the category. When the category label is misspelled, the counts are off. That being said, I still switched the templates to {{-noun-} in almost all cases. I still need to do the M's, S's and T's. I still believe that we should be consistent, to make maintenance easier.

Collapsible tables are not difficult; the only difference is in the table header. They are very easy to implement. Pick a static table, and I will show you how to make it collapsible.

How about this one for starters?

Done! All you need to do is change "wikitable" to "wikitable collapsible collapsed" on the first line. Unfortunately, the link is in Beurla, not Gàidhlig. Maybe I can find where that code resides. Eventually...

No worries about totaling the rows in Teamplaid:/Stadastaireachd. It sounds as if the software for PAGESINCATEGORY is recursive, and has no way of knowing what to count and what not to count. Maybe there is code we could put in certain pages to supress PAGESINCATEGORY counts?

I would not have clue how to do that, but I am a 63 yr old chemist not a information technologist.

I understand. I am a 58 year old, myself. We will do what we can, as we can.I will look at it eventually. Too many other easy things to fix first. Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 20:53, 6 dhen Ghearrain 2015 (UTC)

Taing!

Thank you for the document on Lesson 37! That is so succinct! To get that information, I must look in 5 books in multiple chapters. Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 23:58, 7 dhen Ghearrain 2015 (UTC) Hmmm. I may not have permissions to upload files. I cannot see anywhere that allows me to do so.

Cànain Uiclair

Hi Gunmhoine, Not knowing where to put it, and not wanting to upload it to Wiki Commons until it is complete, I made a sortable, collapsible table of the language codes I am working with here. I hope it is useful to you - I am using it quite a bit.
It turns out that it was very quick to create from a spreadsheet - maybe 5-10 minutes of search and replace to create the table formatting. Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 03:08, 9 dhen Ghearrain 2015 (UTC)

Sionnach sent a reply

You can read the conversation here. Uiclair has no admin, but I think she will help or direct us as she has time.

ISO 15924, ISO 639-5, ISO 639-6

It turns out [ISO 639-5] is minute, and primarily contains language groups. I am disappointed.
[ISO 639-6] was abandoned, as we discussed. A pity; it seemed closer to what I had hoped for. I have pulled what is out there anyway, and am eliminating duplicates and correlating to the existing data.
[ISO 15924] (Codes for the representation of names of scripts) looks interesting. I am going to explore it in a while. "Where possible the codes are derived from ISO 639-2."

Fàilte gu Firefox

Halo, a Ghunmhoine.
Chan eil deatamach leisgeul.
After our last conversation, I visited http://www.akerbeltz.eu/linksg.html and discovered iGàidhlig, including the Gaelic Firefox, with An Dearbhair Beag (the Gaelic spellchecker). Wow. My technical vocabulary has jumped up a notch.
I still cannot see the Bugese script on Firefox, but I now have immersed myself in Gaelic and have entered a whole new world of distraction. Lol. Perhaps there is some personalization and preference tweaking I need to do on Firefox to be able to see the lontara.
Unfortunately, I am going to have to spend the next few days on other tasks. Then next week, I begin Master Gardener classes that will last a few months. I will probably not be able to work as much on Uiclair, but I am not disappearing! Not by a long shot.
Mar sin leat an-dràsta! Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 18:12, 23 dhen Ghearrain 2015 (UTC)

Question about Teamplaid:Roinn-seòrsaTOC

The extra vowels at the end of Teamplaid:Roinn-seòrsaTOC have umlauts rather than grave accents or acute accents. This seems as if it is a ToC for some other language than gd, say, nl or de. It seems that they, the additional vowels, should have grave accents (à, è, ì, ò, ù), and possibly acute accents (for only á, é, and ó). If we wanted to be really fancy, we could intersperse bh, ch, dh, fh, gh, ll, nn, ph, rr, sh, th. That is, unless Teamplaid:Roinn-seòrsaTOC is meant to be inclusive of other languages and not just the aibidil gd, wherein we might consider accents grave, acute, umlauts as well as other diacritical marks. Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 06:29, 25 dhen Ghearrain 2015 (UTC)

I just copied it from nl.wikt and did not worry about such niceties. Certainly we can adapt it to the needs of whatever language as those needs arise, I think. So far the only language that has more than two pages is Dutch and we do not have a lot of diacritics. Gunmhoine (an deasbaireachd) 06:35, 25 dhen Ghearrain 2015 (UTC)

's math sin.

Collision on teamplaid:tl

It had to happen sooner or later. There are several "operating" scripts that depend on teamplaid:tl, but they expext it to be a template link template. The template link template is a simple macro template used to display a template name as a link surrounded by braces, thus showing how the template name would be used in code. Its primary use is in instruction and documentation.
We have teamplaid:tl set to Tagalog languge. It makes for some amusing reading in places. I am going to try to find the occurances and change them to something innocuous. Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 19:47, 25 dhen Ghearrain 2015 (UTC)

Lol. This is another reason why we standardized on three-letter ISO 639-3 codes at nl.wikti. We could then stricly reserve 3-codes to language codes only, that way. Unfortunately the anglophones insisted that their mix of two-and-three was better and blocked the change. This means that even at nl.wikt we are still forced to work with both codes, because all the wikimedia domain names have remained mixed-metaphored. So you get translation blocks like {{eng}}: {{trad|en|something}}. Not ideal. I do think that as long as we are stuck with the mixed code that the language codes need to have right of way otherwise it becomes a mess. How about insisting that 2 and 3 lettercodes for other proposes have a capital letter, so Tl or tL or TL? Gunmhoine (an deasbaireachd) 21:03, 25 dhen Ghearrain 2015 (UTC)

Còdan ISO 639

I finally instantiated the ISO 639 table. I cut it down to roughly a third of what the spreadsheet holds, but I hope it is useful. Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 09:31, 26 dhen Ghearrain 2015 (UTC)

Wow. Yes of course that is useful. Whether we will use it a lot is a different matter. Dè iad? Them Gaels... I know, I know there is few left. Anyway: thanks for all your effort! It does crack me up that you failthfully copied Boegineesche, Boeginezen as names for "bug". Boegeneesche is the inflected form of a Dutch adjective -as used in the title of one of Matthes' books- in a spelling that was abandoned in 1947 at the latest. Boeginezen is the Dutch name for Buginese people. Poor Buginese... We did not treat them very well at all -apart from the great Matthes- and now they get wrong Dutch names forced down their throat... Gunmhoine (an deasbaireachd) 17:27, 26 dhen Ghearrain 2015 (UTC)

LOL. Well feel free to edit. I pulled data mainly from these sources and did not editorialize. There was just too much data! 29K rows of it.

Chemistry question

A Ghumoine, if it is not appropriate to ask this, please say so.
I am studying plants in an online course. The class will not begin meeting until next week, but we are required to read two chapters and take two quizzed before the class commenses.
I ran across the formulae for ammonia and amidogen, but both were in forms with which I was unfamiliar: NH₃^- and NH₂^-. What does the teminating ^- signify? Do these formulae state that these molecules are negative ions, or that they are missing an (omg, it has been so long) electron (ach, in the outer shell - no, that is for a single atom, right)? I have not studied chemisty for three decades, or so, but want to understand.
If it is not appropriate to ask this question, I can ask the teacher next week, if they are familiar with chemistry, or I can dig up my old text books and see if I can find the answer there. I have been looking online for the answer, but have not yet located it.
Tapadh leat. Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 04:35, 27 dhen Ghearrain 2015 (UTC)

Ammonia is neutral NH₃ It is a molecular gas with a closed-shell electronic structure;

Amidogen is neutral (but radical) NH₂^·. It has an unpaired electron (thus: radical) and can only exist for a short time, say as an intermediary during a reaction.

Other members of the N-H family are:

NH₄⁺: the positive ammonium (cat)ion that exists in salts like salmiak (ammonium chloride NH₄Cl). It is closed shell and very soluble in water.

NH₂^-: the negative amide (an)ion that exists in compounds like sodium amide NaNH₂. It is closed shell but reacts violently with water

Amines are compounds that have a -NH₂ (charge neutral) side group say in CH₃NH₂ methyl amine. Some are pretty soluble but very basic, even more thatn ammonia

Ammines that are (neutral) adducts of a compound with ammonia, e.g. ZnCl₂(NH₃)₂; The form particualry well with a Lewis acid like zinc chloride

Amides are compounds resembling esters (...-(O=C)-O-C-...), but with an oxygen replaced by N: (...-(O=C)-N-C-...) These are biologically important because this is the peptide bond that strings amino acids together into a protein.

Amino acids have both (basic) -NH₂ amine and (acidic) -(C=O)OH carboxylic acid side groups. On biological amino acids the two groups are attached to the same carbon atom.

And there is more. Sorry. I hope this is enough! But I'll be happy to explain if you need more. Gunmhoine (an deasbaireachd) 18:43, 27 dhen Ghearrain 2015 (UTC)

This is perfect. Taing!

The introductory .PDF that we were given contains many typos (of botanical names, of all things), so I wanted to check the chemistry, as well. I will report NH₃^- as a typo that should be NH₃.

Yes, there definitely something wrong there.

What the paper says (my paraphrase) is that plant roots cannot/do not uptake NH₃, rather they uptake, "Nitrate (NO₃^-) absorbed by the plant usually cannot be used in that form and has to be converted to the amino form (NH₂^-)." NH₂^-; perhaps it meant NH₂^·... Why the PDF would specify either ^- or ^· in the formula is a mystery, because it is not addressed overtly in the paper. Perhaps the chemistry is discussed at length in a later class; I hope so.

I wonder if they mean -NH₂ or NH₂- as in a bound amino- functional group on an organic molecule.

When I find out, and I will, I will let you know. :-)

I may report NH₂^- as a red herring and request that it be simplified to NH₂.

I doubt that you will ever get an amide ion in biological systems, because it is far too strong a base to exist in aqeous environment. That said: I am not a biochemist. What do they call it?

It was not labelled; I looked it up and put a label on it, which was probably incorrect. All that was said was "Nitrate (NO₃^-) absorbed by the plant usually cannot be used in that form and has to be converted to the amino form (NH₂^-)." (formatting mine.)

I am guessing that the plant may uptake NH₂ (from where it gets it, I don't know at this point) via the roots and then uses it to create various amino acids. This is complete conjecture on my part, though.

It can probably take up the nitrate, where the nitrogen is in its 5+ oxidation state and reduce it to amino groups by adding electrons. It probably makes an amino-compound then, like and amino acid, rather than ammonia itself

Yes, exactly. That matches what was said.

So, I just read that the liquid "ammonia" that comes in a bottle at the grocery store is actually ammonium hydroxide, a solution of NH₃ in water.

Yes, ammonia gas -that you can smell loud and clear from such a solution- is exceedingly soluble in water where it undergoes an acid-base equilibrium NH₃ + H₂O <-- --> NH₄⁺ + OH^-. This used to be called "ammonium hydroxide", but the problem is that NH₄OH itself does not really exist, only its ions in solution. When you try and isolate NH₄OH it immediately falls apart and it does not really occur as a neutral molecule in solution either.

So, if a solution is a homogeneous mixture, and if I understand what you are saying, the NH₄⁺ + OH^- in my household ammonia actually coexist as separate molecules (or at least not as the homogenous substance NH₄OH), then my household ammonia is not technically a solution at all but something else entirely. Is that a solvation, or something else?

Hmm, that is interesting. I suppose we would call that "other things" an ionic solution or an electrolyte. I hate the latter term because it is used both for the solution as for -say- the salt you put in it. I'd prefer ionic solution. The term "solution" is fine as long as the system is homogeneous down to the nanometer level. It is just not entirely a molecular solution, although you still have some neutral ammonia molecules as solutes.

Yes there is a relationship to solvation: each solute species -ionic or neutral- surrounds itself with a mantle of water molecules, called a hydration shell. This process is called solvation. I said interesting because we are involved in research on some systems with extremely high concentrations where there is no "free" water left besides those hydration shells. Then I would not call it a solution anymore either. It is more of an ionic liquid like a molten salt.

Sorry to distract you from Gàidhlig, but this is very interesting to me. It appeals to the "sorter/classifier" in me. Now I wish I had studied biochemistry; I guess it is not too late, though, lol.

OK, ionic solution it is. :) I misunderstood the term "homogenous", and was taking the term to be absolute when what you say implies degree/scope. The engineer in me is sometimes too literal, while the artist in me, not so much. It's a challenge to know which hat to wear at times.

Nanometer. In computer terms, a nanosecond can be as long as eternity depending upon the action or series of actions. It is all a question of scale/scope/degree.

I teach and study this stuff, so it is dangerous to get me going on it... ;-)

Lol. Exactly why I asked. I really wanted to know.

Fascinating. Móran taing! Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 20:27, 27 dhen Ghearrain 2015 (UTC)

Audio-IPA

It turns out that, in this case, changing the category name to Gaelic is a non-trivial task. The changes I made to Audio-IPA are causing LUA errors (LUA is a programming language) in the files that contain Audio-IPA; the error is that the language handling module(s) don't recognize the Gaelic language names. To fix this, I would have to go into the Uiclair "OS" and change code in all of the files (modules, templates, etc.) that handle language codes, and convert them from English to Gàdhlig names. It may be one file (I hope), or a hundred if it were badly architected (the more likely sceanrio).
This conversion/upgrade would break many pages, templates, and modules until I could get it all converted - assuming I have permissions to edit all the necessary files. (As I am not an admin, there are many protected files that I cannot modify.) At this point, I am not sure how to proceed, other then to roll back my changes to Audio-IPA. :-(
Were I an admin, I would not hesitate to charge in as a bull in a crystal factory because conversions are least painful when done earliest. As it is, I am afraid I could bring down the site without the credentials to fix my blunders.
I suspect this is why Sionnach has not made similar changes to system category names and pages on Uicipeid.
Along the same lines, I saw a comment in a file on en:wictionary today that actively discourages everyone from using anything but ISO 639-1 code names for unspecified reasons.

I would ignore the latter for unspecified reasons. Actually. let me specify: without those codes I think wiktionary is a totally hopeless project. But to address the problem: would it help to get rid of the |en|n and |af||h syntax by putting the genitive form in the {{en}} template itself, like we are doing now for the language families? Gunmhoine (an deasbaireachd) 00:52, 1 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

Actually, looking at the Audio-IPA template. the answer would be no. Well, if this lua junk only works in English, it is just more Beurla-junk, isn't it. Can't we rewrite Audio-IPA without calling for lua? I'm not sure why we need that in the first place. Gunmhoine (an deasbaireachd) 00:57, 1 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

It is pretty easy to incorporate the genitive into the language template: I have a switch statements there anyway, so I just added an instance 1=g

{{nl}} renders Duitsis

{{nl|g}} renders Duitsise

{{nl|1}} renders Gearmanach an Iar

{{nl|2}} renders ine:gem:gmw

This means that we can make the -noun- template (etc.) use the right genitive automatically if we add it to all the language templates. (Including cànan whaddever!)Gunmhoine (an deasbaireachd) 01:07, 1 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

That might work. I'll look at it later. Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 21:03, 1 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

Roinn-seòrsa:no language => Roinn-seòrsa:Chan eil cànan?

In the new language template changes, how about Roinn-seòrsa:Chan eil cànan instead of Roinn-seòrsa:no language? Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 23:19, 1 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

Fine by me. It is just a maintenance category to check on missing language codes. Probably should be hidden cat. Should it be chan eil cànan ann? Gunmhoine (an deasbaireachd) 23:23, 1 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

"Chan eil cànan ann" works for me. BTW - I have not been creating hidden categories, though there is no reason other than it did not occur to me. I'll have to learn how.

You just put HIDDEN at the top of the page like you do with NOINDEX etc between double underscores that is.

I was under the impression you'd like to suppress a' Bheurla in favor of an Ghàdhlig wherever possible. :) Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 23:36, 1 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

Well yes I am, but I was in a hurry and I did not intend this to be permanent, but maybe it should be: it is good maintenance practice imho. Gunmhoine (an deasbaireachd) 05:00, 2 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

OK, I'll put HIDDEN at the top of the page. If I hide it, can I see it? Can you see it? (Since we know it is there?)

Oh good question: you might need sysop rights for that..

It has always been my intention to (eventually) translate as much as possible what I have imported from en:Wikipedia/en:Wictionary from English to Gaelic, more even than is translated on Uicipeid. I just wish one of us had admin credentials and that I was a better linguist. :) Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 06:50, 2 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

I'd support you getting sysop privs. I am kind of through sysopping/ bureaucrating. It is why I created my Gunmhoine-persona. Gunmhoine (an deasbaireachd) 15:40, 2 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

Do you know how I might go about getting sysop privs?

Gun mhoire: without peat? Is it a pun?

No a quote from a song I like

Ah! I had not heard that song before. It is beautiful. I watched it on [YouTube]. Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 20:21, 6 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

I'm fond of Altan, and have been listening to them since I heard your song this morning. [Altan on YouTube] You may like them; they are similar to Capercaille, but I like the singer's voice better in Altan. The music is less commerical, I think.

Oh... and they are Irish, not Scottish. 02:32, 7 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

Small bug in Teamplaid:/Stadastaireachd

I have discoverered that Teamplaid:/Stadastaireachd is counting both pages and categories for each category in table on Prìomh-Dhuilleag. I did a bit of research,and believe I have found the solution to the problem.

Right now, the formulae look similar to {{PAGESINCATEGORY:categoryname|R}}, where |R returns unformatted or raw numbers. To collect information about only the words/pages per category, the command should look something like {{PAGESINCATEGORY:categoryname|pages|R}}.

I found the documentation for this fix at Help:Magic words (|pages) and Help:Magic words (|R) Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 04:03, 7 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

Oh, tha math dha-rìribh!. I was looking for that for a long time. Gunmhoine (an deasbaireachd) 04:32, 7 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

:) Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 07:22, 7 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

Language codes appear to be centralized in two files

Great news. The two files in Roinn-seòrsa:Language data modules seem to contain all of the language codes. One is for 2-digit codes and Module:languages/data3/u handles 3-digit language codes. Module:languages/data3/u is where we would add handling for all of the ISO 639-3 and/or 5 codes. Module:languages seems to handle all of the language code processing. Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 04:53, 7 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

1K Altan!

We just hit 1000 articles! Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 20:02, 16 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

YYAAAYYY!!

Gunmhoine (an deasbaireachd) 20:30, 16 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

Eadar-theangachaidhean

The more I think about it, the more I like your proposed solution. However, I worry about what we would append the Eadar pages on. It makes sense to me to append them on the root Gaelic translations, but we weren't going to do many of those.

What are your thoughts? Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 07:41, 20 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

Yes, we do have a problem and it is a big one: as long as we do not have a native speaker (or close) to join us we are pretty handicapped and limited in what we do. Creating polluted information is really not an option because that will diminish our chances to ever get someone to join us. (Besides it is pretty unethical too). The translation pages do have to be rooted in something (i.e. the working language Gaidhlig) because of something called semantic drift. If translate a word from A into B and then into C, D, E and finally back into A, you may well get something totally wrong. The quo viso omnes menstruatae sunt is a dire warning for that. Of course for some concepts like "eleven" or "elephant" that is much less likely to happen than for a verb like "get". But still: the translations really should be for whatever the Gaidhlig word means. Even "eleven" translates into "elf" in Dutch which translates back into "elf" in English... Provided we are reasonably certain what the Gaidhlig word means I don't think it would hurt if there is an eadar page without an actual definition page in gd. I am not so sure about how to link other language lemmas to the eadar page(s), because of the drift issue. Gunmhoine (an deasbaireachd) 17:41, 20 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

I agree.

I see the same problem on Uicipeid. For example, I pinched (plagiarized) the definitions for the Gaelic days of the week from Uicipeid, only to realize that they were written with the incorrect form of the "be" verb. Many, many articles on Uicipeid use the "temporary state" form 's rather than the "intrinsic state" form tha in the definitions; I believe this usage is incorrect. It is a mistake no native speaker would have made. I have been working to correct that mistake for the past few days.

The trouble is, I don't know any native speakers who have the time to work on this with us. Native Gaelic speakers are rare! Both Akerbeltz and Sionnach are German, etc. I do trust Akerbeltz's Gaelic, but I doubt he has the time to work on either Uicpeid or Uiclair.

I did meet a man last week in my small town who is Scotch and who tells me he has "began" Gaelic, but even if he has much more than he admits to, I doubt he has time to work on Uiclair, though I will ask him.

In Austin, Texas, where I lived until very recently, there is a Scotsman who has a radio show on the univeristy radio station. Several years ago, I asked him if he knew of anyone who taught Gaelic. The only person he could think of was my Gaelic teacher from the early 1990s, but who is from Nova Scotia and lives in California. Donny didn't really have much time to teach Gaelic, and sold me cassette tapes instead; they were difficult to understand and definitely did not correct my mispronunciations.

So where do we go from here?Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 01:56, 21 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

BTW - quo viso omnes menstruatae sunt was funny and sad. I had similar converstations with my Hebrew teacher about biblical translations when I was much younger.

Faic An Gearran/Eadar-theangachadh Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 04:35, 21 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

Tha dà teamplaidean Teamplaid:=trans= agus Teamplaid:-trans-

Hiya. Tha dà teamplaidean an seo: Teamplaid:=trans= is Teamplaid:-trans-. :-)

• Tha Teamplaid:-trans-: (a' chiad)
  • ===Eadar-Theangachaidhean===
• Tha Teamplaid:=trans=: (nuadh)
  • ==Eadar-Theangachaidhean==

Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 01:18, 22 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

Eadar-theangachaidhean

By accident, I created what I thought were subpages for translations. It turns out that they were not subpages at all.

Hmmm. That's curious because that does seem to work for user pages. See e.g. Cleachdaiche:Gunmhoine/appendix. It does have a back link to my user page.

Yes, user pages are in a different namespace than articles; the rules are different.

As an experiment, I created three flavors of dedicated translation pages. Please see the following:

• /Eadar-theangachadh
  • Notice the caption on the table of translations
  • Notice, too that all subsequent references to /Eadar-theangachadh in a given namespace always point to that same specific page. It seems it is not possible to have two subpages with the same subpage name pending off of different root pages in the same namespace/scope.
    • See Di-Luain#Eadar-Theangachaidhean - this is the orginal source of /Eadar-theangachadh.
    • See Di-Ardaoin#Eadar-Theangachaidhean - this is where I tried to create a new subpage named "/Eadar-theangachadh"
• Pages I created by accident. Notice the captions on the tables of translations.
  • Di-Luain/Eadar-theangachadh
    • Di-Luain#Eadar-Theangachaidhean - "origin"
  • Di-Màirt/Eadar-theangachadh
    • Di-Màirt#Eadar-Theangachaidhean - "origin"

As an experiment, I created these pages. Notice the captions on the tables of translations.

• Eadar-theangachadh:Di-Ciadain
  • Di-Ciadain#Eadar-Theangachaidhean - "origin"
• Eadar-theangachadh:Di-hAoine
  • Di-hAoine#Eadar-Theangachaidhean - "origin"
• Now see Sònraichte:AllPages and look for pages containing the phrase "Eadar-theangachaidhean". I'll list them for your convenience.
  • /Eadar-theangachadh
  • These pages are associated with the root word:
    • An Gearran/Eadar-theangachadh
    • Di-Luain/Eadar-theangachadh
    • Di-Màirt/Eadar-theangachadh
  • These are grouped together:
    • Eadar-theangachadh:Di-Ciadain
    • Eadar-theangachadh:Di-hAoine

Which style do you prefer?

Chan eil fhìos agam idir.... Mayby keep it short, like E:Di-Ciadain, or so? Or Ead:something Not that creates a separate namespace. We would have to request that I think. As far as the header is concerned: there is a parameter t whith which you can alter that. Default is the pagename. So that is not such a problem. Gunmhoine (an deasbaireachd) 17:57, 22 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

OK - I'll try it. I take it you like grouping the translations together?

So, "eadar" does not mean "translation", rather it means "between". That's what you want to label the pages with? "Between"? "Eadar-theangachadh" is literally "between tongues" air Beurla.

I suppose we could make it E-T: but then we would have to phone home all the time ;-)Gunmhoine (an deasbaireachd) 18:22, 22 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

Lol. E-t: it is. I've got stuff to do right now; I'll work on it as I can. Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 19:41, 22 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

=C= Looks great!

I looked at Berg again. It looks great! Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 17:04, 23 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

BTW - I am slowly eliminating the teamplaidean:=xx= by replacing them with =C=. I needed a mindless task today. Kibz 08:48, 26 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

Bot and adminship

Hi. JAn (sic) Dudík just wrote a note on my talk page saying he (?) would help us with bots. You can see the conversation under the same heading on my page. He says, " I need If you can add to your categories at least one correct intewiki link to other languages." Any idea what he means?

Yes he means that we should find at least one corresponding cat on another wikti and put a link to that one on the one here.

He also mentions petitioning Meta for sysop rights, and suggests that we both request credentials. (My paraphrase.) I told him I would, but that I didn't think you wanted them.
Tioraidh. Kibz. 08:45, 26 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

en:Category:gd:Chemistry

I've been adding (and sometimes correcting) categorical interwikis for JAn Dudik. There isn't much there, but have you seen en:Category:gd:Chemistry, en:Category:bug:Chemistry, or en:Category:Chemistry? en:Category:ga:Chemistry looks very rich: (2 c, 164 e). Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 02:30, 27 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

Hmm, yes, impressive huh?

Gunmhoine (an deasbaireachd) 02:34, 27 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

Also see these:

• en:Category:Reference templates
• en:Wiktionary:Reference templates
• gd:w:Roinn-seòrsa:Teamplaid theicneolach

Adminship for Kibi78704

Hi. At cs:User talk:JAn Dudík's prompting, I began a discussion at Meta about our situation. They suggested that both of us apply for adminship. To do so, we need to post at Wiktionary:Doras_na_coimhearsnachd for a week. My posting is at Wiktionary:Doras_na_coimhearsnachd#Adminship_for_Kibi78704.

meta:User talk:Nemo made a suggestion that I disagreed with, namely to recruit from "other gd wikis". meta:User talk:Vituzzu suggested that instead we should apply for longer terms of adminship.

I know you said you are not interested, BUT if you were to obtain the admin credentials, and if I were not around (assuming I do get the credentials), then you would not have to wait for me or someone else to perform whatever action was necessary. If you have the credentials, you don't have to use them. Plus, then we could create hidden categories, but still both see them. Just a thought. :)

Please post any concerns about me obtaining admin rights at Wiktionary:Doras_na_coimhearsnachd#Adminship_for_Kibi78704. Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 16:52, 28 dhen Mhàrt 2015 (UTC)

Dear Developer, Blog

I stumbled on Dear Developer, today, and I enjoy reading the postings. It is Akerbeltz' blog on software localization. You may like it, too. Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 17:45, 1 dhen Ghiblean 2015 (UTC)

Blas na Gàidhlig: The Practical Guide to Gaelic Pronunciation agus Slighe nan Gaidheal

While my reading and writing skills are improving, and I am hearing and understanding vocal Gaelic much better, my oral skills at Gaelic are non-existant.
I found a reasonably priced American distributor for Akerbeltz's Blas na Gàidhlig. (Amazon is charging $304 per copy vs. $55 at St. Johns Booksellers.) Though she is currently out of copies, she expects another shipment this month so I ordered a copy, and had a lovely conversation with the owner, who has given me contact information for the regional Gaelic community, Slighe nan Gaidheal. The reason I am telling you about Slighe nan Gaidheal is is that they hold "Zero to Gaelic Intensive Days" language classes, "Ceum Suas" ongoing language classes, maintain a lending library with over 100 titles, and hold a semi-annual festival, which includes music and language classes. Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 19:07, 1 dhen Ghiblean 2015 (UTC)

JAnBot agus teamplaidean air ceanglaichean-lìn na roinn-seòrsa

Have you noticed that JAnBot is expanding all of the templates in all of the category links in category pages? E.g., many, many of the categories (after I spent a great deal of time putting them into this format) had links like :

[[Roinn-seòrsa:Faclan {{en|g}}]]
[[:Roinn-seòrsa:Ainmearan a-rèir cànain|{{g}]]

but now they all look like:

[[:Roinn-seòrsa:Faclan na Beurla]]
[[:Roinn-seòrsa:Ainmearan a-rèir cànain|Beurla]]

I just realized I have been changing them back to the template versions, only to have them converted out from under me. In some cases, this has occurred for 3 cycles. Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 02:30, 4 dhen Ghiblean 2015 (UTC)

Oh yuck. I think he is to be found on the Czech wiktionary. Maybe drop a note that this is not desirable? It would make correcting cats if we need to a lot harder, wouldn't it? Gunmhoine (an deasbaireachd) 02:35, 4 dhen Ghiblean 2015 (UTC)

So we sacrifice the maintainability of our wikt for the sake of interwiki links? That does not seem right to me. You think his bot crawls our non-interwiki category links? Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 04:12, 4 dhen Ghiblean 2015 (UTC)

Taking a break from Uiclair

I've been thinking aboiut this for a while, but it crystalized today for me.

Uiclair is not fun right now. It had becaome a tedious chore, and has become overwhelmingly complicated and confusing. I feel as if I am spending the majority of my time cleaning up rather than writing definitions. I cannot keep up with the morphing templates any more when I finally do get a chance to write an definition. It is becoming more and more irritating to have to edit an entire page rather than a specific section; this alone makes working on it very error-prone and confusing for me when I am adding another language's definition to an existing page.

I have too many things going on in my life right now to be able to unravel the intracacies of a constantly morphing model of ever increasing complexity.

Perhaps when my life settles down a bit I will be able to handle the chaos better.

Best wishes.

Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 18:25, 19 dhen Ghiblean 2015 (UTC)

Translating the interface in your language, we need your help

Hello Gunmhoine, thanks for working on this wiki in your language. We updated the list of priority translations and I write you to let you know. The language used by this wiki (or by you in your preferences) needs about 100 translations or less in the priority list. You're almost done!

Gus eadar-theangachadh atharrachadh no a chur ris airson gach uicidh, cleachd translatewiki.net, am pròiseact eadar-theangachaidh aig MediaWiki.

Please register on translatewiki.net if you didn't yet and then help complete priority translations (make sure to select your language in the language selector). With a couple hours' work or less, you can make sure that nearly all visitors see the wiki interface fully translated. Nemo 14:06, 26 dhen Ghiblean 2015 (UTC)

Names of Wikimedia Languages

Dear Gunmhoine,

we are initiating a long needed action - we would like to translate names of all Wikimedia languages to all Wikimedia languages in the next two months. We have noticed that you are very active on Wiktionary and that is the reason why we are taking liberty to contact you.

We hope that you would be interesting to help us in our endeavor - To make this action easier we have already prepared the list of all Wikimedia languages, and for each language we have already prepared the page with existing and missing translations. So when you go to the page for your language you would have two tasks - to check whether existing translations are OK and to fill in the missing one. The more detailed instruction are on the language page.

What are the benefits of this work?

• We believe it is about time to have all Wikimedia languages translated to all Wikimedia languages :)
• Translated languages will be parsed into Wiktionary and the resulting number of Wiktionary entries will be significant for each language. That could significantly increase the number of entries for less developed Wiktionaries, and improve the quality of entries in general.
• Wikidata - this would be great contribution to Wikidata.
• All other projects could benefit from this list (Wiki Travel :)), as we believe that certain amount of terms has to be properly translated to all languages.

We are gathered around the project Wiktionary Meets Matica Srpska and we hope that you would be interesting in working with us! If you have any questions you can ask them on the Names of Wikimedia languages discussion page or via personal emails.

Important notice: The data are licensed under CC0, as they should be incorporated into Wikidata at the end of the process.

If you don’t want to receive future announcement about the project, please leave a note on discussion page.

Thank you and looking forward to hear from you!

Interglider.org team

• Senka Latinović
• Godzzzilica
• Millosh

Godzzzilica (an deasbaireachd) 13:28, 29 dhen Ghiblean 2015 (UTC)

Your temporary access has expired

Hello, the temporary access you requested on this wiki has expired. Just to let you know that If you want it back, feel free to make a local announcement and open a new request on stewards' permission request page on Meta-Wiki later. Moreover, if you think the community is big enough to elect a permanent administrator, you can place a local request here for a permanent adminship, so stewards can grant you the permanent access. Please ask me or any other steward if you have any questions. Thank you! Stryn (an deasbaireachd) 17:25, 6 dhen Dàmhair 2015 (UTC)

Haló!? A bheil duine ann an seo?

Haló a-rithist! Tha mi an seo; a bheil thu? Kibi78704 (an deasbaireachd) 03:32, 12 dhen Iuchar 2018 (UTC)