The Wheel of Time

It's just sad it's not a great show. These books were way better than game of thrones. Plus they're actually finished. The great bearded glacier will never finish A Song of Ice and Fire.

If they're making the Forsaken feel way too OP then that is book accurate. If the Forsaken were capable of uniting and didn't fight and plot against each other the heroes would have been utterly screwed. In the books they each basically took over kingdoms and were ruling from the shadows.

@xxFelixDCatxx, sorry to hear of the massive destruction you've found to sacred canon, but I could've told you that you'd hate it, lolz, it's not that great of a show, I gave it a 6.75/10 and said to watch it with a bowl of sugary cereal in your pajamas on a Saturday morning. As for skipping plot points, season 3 replaces exposition with harsh cuts, and feels like it really really skips over necessary transitional scenes that would help define the reasons behind which direction they are travelling, at least more so than seasons 1 and 2, so you have that to look forward to during your hate watch of season 3, lolz. :p

3x4 was epic though.

3x6 The Hills of Tanchico was really well done. Did they sing it twice or did Nynaeve and Min just show up at the end of the first sing through? The editing once again lost me there. The forsaken are way too powerful, the entire world would simply run amuck without an equal and opposite force against them, they only add to the phoniness.

Thanks for all the details. To me, transforming books to something on the screen is like remixing music... The result can't ever be the same, but you recognize it. And sometimes the original is better, sometimes the remix! :)

The author is dead. His widow was sued for criticizing a previous Wheel of Time pilot when another pilot episode was put out nearly a decade ago. Brandon Sanderson, who finished the series after the original author's death and who's supposed to be providing some direction to this appealed to fans of the books stating that this is another turn of the wheel and that it's not the books which... yeah at this point is very obvious. My guess is he's trying to get some of his own books adapted by amazon and doesn't want to make waves with too much opposition during production of this one. So all 3 people with writing credits for the books are effectively not involved with the show. Brandon Sanderson is pretty critical of season 2 https://winteriscoming.net/2023/10/18/brandon-sanderson-harsh-criticism-the-wheel-of-time-season-2-finale/. He's the author who finished the series.

Just finished season 2. Am devastated as a book reader. Almost none of this happened in the books, and the few events that did were changed to the point where they're almost unrecognizable.

I'll start by saying the only thing that matched the books fully was how badass the Aiel are. In season 1 we saw Rand's mom go ham and kill like 8 soldiers during while pregnant, and the show has been alright at showing them as some of the deadliest fighters in the world, which is what they are and how they should be shown.

I'm just going to mention a few things that annoyed me the most. I don't know if I can bring myself to watch season 3.

1. Moraine was never shielded for an extended period in the books. She never abandoned Rand or Lan in the books either. This makes zero narrative or story-telling sense to me at all. She spent Rand's entire life looking for him, knows he's the chosen one and is the only person who can defeat the Dark One, you really think she'd let him out of her sight?

2. Egwene killed the Seanchan that was controlling her. In the books she left her there with the collar on, making her a damene as payback. The revelation that Suldam's also could channel was a huge shock to the Seanchan and a major disruption to their society later in the books. So that was actually a HUGE plot point that was changed. On top of being a major change for Egwene's character who wouldn't have killed a captive like that.

3. The Horn of Valere. That was a goofy looking horn. Also in the show they state that it 'summons an army of heroes'. I guess the budget constraints prevented them from the actual army part. I thought it was hilarious that the show is treating it like this huge key in fighting the Dark One when in the show it barely summons 10 people. The books horn summoned around 300.

4. Matt was not a hero of the horn. He's a Ta'veren. The show has actually mentioned Ta'veren and told us there are 5 of them. Rand, Perrin, Matt, Egwene, and Nynaeve. In the books there were only three. Rand, Matt, and Perrin. All Ta'veren influence fate simply by existing. People around them may agree to do things they'd never normally do, extreme cases of luck both good and bad manifest as well around them. Matt in the books has no powers unlike literally everyone else in the group. It's revealed around this point in the books that out of all the Ta'veren he's the one who influences luck the most, and his super power is luck. Which fits given all the gambling we've seen him doing.

5. Rand's fight at the season ending was completely different and way less cool than the books. But what really annoyed me is Moiraine kind of offhandedly mentioning that he was prophesied to announce himself in the sky at Falme. Ummmmmm again why did you abandon him if you knew that prophesies had gone unfulfilled? Why are we just NOW hearing about the prophesies of the dragon, which was a huge part of the books and were constantly mentioned? The prophecies included some Herculean tasks that Rand had to complete to prove to the world he is the Dragon. They drive the plot of the books for most of the series. The TV show offhandedly mentions them once and never elaborated.

6. The seals... those giant stone disks. They didn't hold the Forsaken like some oversized pokeballs. They were the magic seals created to hold the Dark One in his prison. Made of a material that's supposed to be indestructible, in the books the seals had weakened and could be easily broken by hand. When the last seal breaks, the Dark One is fully released and the Last Battle begins. So in the books there's a pretty frantic scavenger hunt on both sides for the remaining seals.

7. The Seanchan are missing their flying lizard mounts they used as scouts. I actually wanted to see the riders and am disappointed we didn't get to see them.

8. Seriously, it wasn't until Egwene, Elayne and Nynaeve were captured that the show started even resembling the books again. There are some really confusing nods to book readers, like Rand burning the letter from the noble in that one scene and Lanfear mentioning that all the people in the room thought he was some far away random lord no one had heard about. That was actually a major storyline in the books and was kind of humorous but lead to the Fireworks guild. The guild of people who discovered gunpowder and kept the secrets of making gunpowder. That's... pretty important later on for some pretty obvious reasons. If I were to create a full list of the changes this would be like 30 to 40 points long. Min never is tempted to give up her powers by working with the dark for example. Sure she hates her sight in the books, but would never work with the Dark to get rid of them.

9. Moiraine destroying the ships with the damenes on them. First off Moiraine is bound by the 3 Oaths, which have been established already. She can't channel to kill unless he life is in direct danger. So her killing those ships shouldn't have been possible. The other reason that shouldn't have been possible is the FACT that those ships were full of women who could channel, some or all of them should have been able to block Moiraine.

In conclusion. This is a very, very, very loose adaptation of the books. The condensing I can understand given how many books there are, but some of the plot changes and character changes... make no sense to the story and are just examples of bad overall story telling. Again the show does an extremely poor job of explaining and presenting the lore of the books too, borrowing from the lore almost at random while ignoring or changing huge points of it.

I desperately want to like this show given it's based on my all time favorite book series. I'm trying to disengage myself from the books and just watch it and enjoy it for what it is, but I can't. I'll hate watch Season 3 when it ends to see if there's any redemption for the series, or to see some other iconic moments from the books and hope they butcher it less than they did this season.

Ugh, you finally made me do it. You finally made me actually watch the show. When Season 1 premiered, I was super excited and had done a full re-read of the books in the months before the first episode, so it was all super fresh, and the changes and cuts they made felt waaaayyyy too glaring. This series of books is probably my favorite all time fantasy series, and it's not exaggerating to say that's out of thousands of books read in my life, so I was kind of emotionally close to the series from the get go too.

When I saw that we'd reached the Trial of Rhuidean and you guys who are show watchers had the same emotional reaction I had when reading it for the first time, I knew I had to see it for myself.

So I've watched through season 1, which I only had made it halfway through the first time and I just... yeah I want to say a few things.

The Positives.

Goddamn the creatures of the Dark are awesome looking. The Faceless Ones (Myrddraal) and Trollocs (the demon beast things) look great. The channeling is also well done for the most part. I like that the Aes Sedai weaves (the magic thready rope looking stuff that you see as they're channelling) are depicted as pure white, and the male channelers are depicted as white with black as well. The black signifies the taint the Dark one placed on the source, which is absorbed by men when they channel slowly driving them insane. This is mentioned in the show, but I think they could have done a better job explaining what we were seeing. That is a reoccurring theme in the show sadly, more on that later. Most of the characters are well done and fit their respective descriptions in the books well. I very much like that the Two Rivers have a dark complexion, whereas Rand and the Aiel are red headed and fair skinned. I also like that the Borderlanders and Lan are depicted as Asian and Siuan (the Amryllian leader of the Aes Sedai) is black. This fits as the various nations in the books were very varied on the people. The story Moraine told of the Fall of Manetherin which was the nation where the Two Rivers was was well done too. The story of Manetherin came up a few times in the books and was something that always stuck with me, hearing her tell it got the ol' tears to well up a bit. Jordan did a good job describing how they held for 9 days waiting for reinforcements. Tai'shar Manetherin as they say in the books.

Things that were mentioned in the show that were NOT explained very well. Read only if you want for in depth book lore that got cut and wasn't shown well... maybe they'll show it better later.

1. Aes Sedai and their Wardens. The show mentions they're bonded Nynaeve when she's tending to Moiraine mentions to Lan she knows Wardens can feel their bonded Aes Sedai's pain. Later when Rand and Moiraine head off into the Blight alone Lan mentions he can usually sense where she is, but she's masking the bond making it impossible. Moiraine also mentions she's masking the bond while their in the Tower earlier but doesn't really explain the significance of that, which is that Lan can't sense her feelings, pain, or where she's at, and also vice versa, she can feel him too. It also does not mention that Aes Sedai can command their Wardens through the bond giving them orders they cannot disobey. Which I know was in the first book. Bonds can also be transferred, but is very rarely done given the intimacy of the bond, Moiraine mentions passing a bond offhand while in the tower in the show.

2. Darkfriends. The term is used for humans who've aligned themselves with the Dark One. The show just kind of offhandedly refers to the innkeeper who attacked Rand and Matt as one, but doesn't elaborate on the term at all in Season 1. In fact I'm disapointed that the Whitecloaks didn't mention Darkfriends more since that's their whole thing, hunting supposed Darkfriends. Their beef with the Aes Sedai is that they consider all Aes Sedai Darkfriends.

3. The Forsaken. They refer to themselves as the Chosen. Lann mentions the Forsaken very early in the show as an offhanded comment as does Thom the gleeman (the guy who Matt helped bury the dead Aiel, and who saved Rand and Matt from the Faceless) We get a glimpse of them at the end of Season 1 when we see the big bad that Rand thought he killed actually survived. WHICH IS A HUUUUUUGE DEPARTURE FROM THE BOOKS. He mentions in the final moments at the end of season 1 that some consider him a monster and call him Forsaken to the little girl afraid of the Trollocs, but he is actually the Chosen. The frustrating thing is they were mentioned earlier, but you'd have to be a book reader to realize the significance, I don't see how anyone just watching the show could have possibly picked up who they were, so it was a really really bad reveal on the shows part to the non-book crowd. You're supposed to know there are 13 people who were Aes Sedai Pre-Breaking who betrayed humanity in exchange for immortality from the Dark One, and that the men who are Forsaken are protected from the Taint on the Source that makes men insane. I know I mentioned this in an earlier comment, but the guy who Rand 'killed' end of Season 1 wasn't the Dark One, he was one of the Forsaken.

4. Rand's sword. The heron marked blade. The show has a few characters, Lan, the Darkfriend Inkeeper, and the big bad at the end of season 1 all remark on the Heron mark on Rand's blade. But NONE of them explain what that means! A heron mark blade is only given to swordmasters who are top tier. And on top of that some of the swords (Rand's included) are literal magic swords forged by Aes Sedai that are eternally sharp, never rust, and are thousands of years old. At this point Rand should have had at least 5 interactions where people are super intimidated by him just on seeing the heron marks, to the point where he gets a cover for his sword and starts covering the marks because he's not a swordmaster and those marks are writing checks he can't cash so to speak.

Conclusion. Overall so far having just watched season 1, I'm liking this more on a second try around. I was too emotionally close to see it for a good show given the glaring changes.... like... Perrin's wife's entire existence. The show is overall a pretty good adaptation of the books, but... my biggest complaint is how condensed it all is. They skipped months of Rand and Matt's journey to Tar Valon in literal seconds. Like... one frame they're fleeing the farm they were staying at, and the next they're suddenly there and they casually mention over a month has passed. They skipped entirely the story of Egwene and Perrin post Whitecloaks, and the river boat captain who Matt and Rand traveled with initially. Thom the gleeman gets a criminally short amount of screen time as we see him rob Matt, bury the Aiel, and save them from the Fade, but none of his travels with Matt and Rand, nor teaching Rand and Matt some basics of how to be a gleeman. Loial the Ogier dies at the end of Season 1? Except he doesn't, I looked it up already. I couldn't believe they killed him off and had to look it up to make sure they didn't make that HUGE of a change. They also missed the Padan Fain jail scene from the books which was a hugely gruesome scene and makes his character far, far less menacing than he should be. In the books Padan is detected by Perrin early enough that he's arrested and placed in jail. Padan is NOT one of the Forsaken, but is a Darkfriend who's been... deeply infected by the Dark One's darkness. While in jail all the other inmates and the jailers go insane from being around him for a prolonged period, and gouge their eyes out, chew out their own tounges to kill themselves, or experience fear so deep that they wear their hands down to bloody stumps trying to claw their way through the stone walls of the jail, dying of blood loss. Padan gets out of the jail during the Trollocs raiding the city while Rand is in the Blight doing his thing, and he goes and kills the guards at one of the gates opening it for the Trollocs and leading to the fall of the city... in the books. Instead we did get an admittedly cool scene where 5 Aes Sedai linked with Egwene and Nynaeve wreck the Trollocs, which is book accurate given Egwene and Nynaeve are two powerhouses. It was also cool seeing the other 3 and partially Nynaeve burn themselves out which is a risk when channeling that hard.

Overall, this ain't bad. I'm sure I'll torture you guys with some in depth posts on Season 2 and 3 here shortly lol. Sorry for the novel. Appropriate given how long the book series was :)

Haven't watched the new season. I was disappointed with a lot of last season although I finished it. I am really over the electric waves that happen when they scrunch up their faces and point at something. Very low budget special effects. People get crushed by all theses magic powers and just bounce up and have a go at the other. I want to care about the good guys, I want to fear the bad guys. I read all the books and loved them. Where is the author for the screen play?

But maybe they get it right this time. I hope so. I will be following this thread to find out if it's worth the effort.

Exactly! Like things were lost then repurposed into something new, and now people don't really know why they're doing what they're doing. It gets into the title of the show, Wheel of Time.

That was one of my favorite parts of the books. How much was lost during the Breaking of the World. I don't want to spoil anything specific, but I really do hope that the show does impart that people were essentially knocked back into the stone age comparatively to pre-Breaking.
Yeah, that's how it felt... :) That makes 3x4 such a special episode.

https://next-episode.net/1899 also managed to achieve something like it: building expectations and then... WHOAH, SURPRISE! :D

Heh, didn't mean to kill the conversation in here. Looks like they're at about 1/4 through the books. Unfortunately at this rate that's going to be another decade given the plan for 8 seasons and a whopping 2 year break between seasons.

It doesn't surprise me to hear that there are jarring and condensed plot points. This was a 15 book series with each book at around 400 pages on average, being condensed into 8 seasons with 8 episodes each... it's inevitable there's going to be a LOT missing.



Exactly! Like things were lost then repurposed into something new, and now people don't really know why they're doing what they're doing. It gets into the title of the show, Wheel of Time.

That was one of my favorite parts of the books. How much was lost during the Breaking of the World. I don't want to spoil anything specific, but I really do hope that the show does impart that people were essentially knocked back into the stone age comparatively to pre-Breaking.

hmm dont agree this 3rd season is a dud so far other than for eps 1 the big fight at the start.

Exactly! Like things were lost then repurposed into something new, and now people don't really know why they're doing what they're doing. It gets into the title of the show, Wheel of Time.