Review: 21353 The Botanical Garden
Posted by CapnRex101,41757 Botanical Garden was launched last year and received immediate acclaim, so many were surprised when LEGO confirmed that another botanical garden would be developed via LEGO Ideas. It would be difficult to improve upon the stunning Friends design, after all.
However, I think those concerns vanished once 21353 The Botanical Garden was revealed, based on Goannas89's creation. The traditional Victorian architecture looks spectacular and there are plenty of appealing plants to be found inside, as well as a variety of unique elements developed for this model.
Summary
21353 The Botanical Garden, 3,792 pieces.
£289.99 / $329.99 / €329.99 | 7.6p/8.7c/8.7c per piece.
Buy at LEGO.com »
The Botanical Garden looks magnificent on display, offering plenty of floral variety
- Attractive external design for display
- Outstanding variety of plants
- Good interior access
- Lots of new elements
- Generous minifigure selection
- Perhaps a little too expensive
Minifigures
Twelve minifigures are included, which is arguably more than necessary, but means you can easily populate the garden. Two work as gardeners, dressed in matching aprons with a sand green shirt underneath and dual-moulded boots. Those boots are very welcome and I like the hair pieces, especially because the female gardener's hairstyle is new in dark brown.
While the gardeners' aprons are new, that worn by the café worker has appeared several times before. Nonetheless, the colour scheme of reddish brown, dark tan and sand blue works nicely and I am glad to see this detailed dual-moulded hat and hair piece again, returning from 21350 Jaws in these colours.
A guide completes this group, including a new torso with a lovely padded jacket and name tag. The satchel looks splendid too, as its dark blue colour complements the jacket and is relatively uncommon, only appearing in three other sets to date. This minifigure is actually inspired by the fan designer, Valentina Bima.
The ever-cheerful tour guide lacks an alternative expression, but the other minifigures feature double-sided heads. I like the gardener's facial expressions and their accessories in particular, as one is presumably losing control of a leaf blower, while the other appears to be squinting as they make the finishing touches to some topiary.
Eight visitors are provided as well. The first is especially notable, intended to portray a visually impaired person. Such minifigures are rare outside licensed themes and I think the character's closed eyes communicate their disability well, in combination with a white cane, represented by a wand accessory.
Furthermore, this minifigure's torso has only appeared once before, in 31153 Modern House. The photographer, meanwhile, sports an entirely new floral shirt and leather jacket ensemble, paired with a flat cape. Between the cap and the bushy beard, I think this minifigure is inspired by the model designer, Chris McVeigh.
The remaining figures comprise existing parts. Even so, they all look superb, including some distinctive hair elements or rare elements. For instance, the grey suit worn by one visitor was introduced in 21344 The Orient Express Train last year, while the boy's double-sided head has only otherwise appeared in 60421 Robot World before now.
A selection of accessories are supplied, ranging from a camera and a printed mobile phone to an umbrella and a brick-built handbag. The differing facial expressions are splendid too, giving plenty of opportunities for storytelling.
The Completed Model
The botanical garden is constructed across two 32x32 baseplates, so measures 51cm across. This size is impressive and feels realistic in comparison with other buildings. In addition, I love how the colourful flowers arranged outside balance the muted white and sand green shades of the glasshouse, ensuring the model looks marvellous on display, while still appearing realistic.
Of course, this is not the only botanical garden LEGO has released lately, as 41757 Botanical Garden debuted in the Friends theme last year. These two models obviously vary in scale and are intended for different age groups, but I was also pleasantly surprised by the clear difference in style, as the garden in Heartlake City feels more modern, given its large dome, whereas the Ideas version is Victorian in style.
A tiled pathway leads to the entrance, flanked by two dark green shrubs. The pattern along the path is fairly simple, but contrasts with the bright green baseplates and I like its curved corners, matching the circular ends of the path as it winds among the flowers to either side.
The flowers themselves are stunning and incorporate some interesting elements. Using green banana skins as leaves beneath the pink flowers is ingenious and I am sure this technique will continue to be used in future sets. Also, a couple of new flower pieces have been developed for the set, including one with clustered petals that looks superb alone or combined with the usual 1x1 flower.
The other is most immediately suited to tulips, but includes a small pin hole on top, so it could be combined with flower accessories to create other flora. Both new elements are provided in multiple colours and the potential for combinations is very interesting, as you can see with the ice cream tulips pictured towards the right below.
I love the fountain placed among the flowers, with a pale yellow bird perched on top. The trellis against the wall looks lovely too, although my favourite details are actually the medium nougat 1x2 rounded tiles and 1x2 rounded plates comprising textured borders around the flower beds. This is a simple building technique, but an effective one.
Certain flowers are repeated on the other side, but there are some new ones too, including a row of pink tulips and three orange flowers. It appears there used to be a fourth, until a pesky rabbit arrived and ate much of the plant, leaving only a stem behind! Details like this one really help the model feel alive with activity.
A large tree dominates this area of the botanical garden, based on Acer palmatum, also known as Japanese maple. LEGO is not a perfect medium for creating trees, but I think this one looks fantastic, faithfully replicating the Acer's characteristic dome-shaped canopy and with authentic colours. The blend of dark orange leaves and uncommon dark red plant stems is beautiful.
42631 Adventure Camp Tree House introduced a new 1x1 round tile featuring a beetle, which reappears here. Again, this is a great detail, although beetles often cause damage to trees, so hopefully this particular beetle, crawling across one of the lower branches, is harmless.
The glasshouse itself is quite simple, though undoubtedly attractive, nevertheless. The sand green door and window frames look nice and the general architecture seems very realistic to me, featuring a few ornate details, without seeming too elaborate. The decorative balustrades and painted ironwork above the entrance are striking examples.
Similarly, the roof is instantly recognisable as belonging to a Victorian glasshouse, featuring a couple of new parts to create the desired shape. Most obvious are the trans-clear 5x5 window panels at each corner, complementing the existing 6x5 panels used alongside. Additionally, the 1x5 arch bricks sandwiched between the window panels are new, although similar to 1x6 arch bricks already available.
The tiered structure of the roof looks excellent and these trans-clear panels should arrive with minimal scratches, as they are packaged in their own bags. Even so, I did find a few scuffs on mine, but they are thankfully subtle. The decorative accents along the edge of the roof are also quite subtle and look good, comprising 1x1 heart tiles.
The roof can be detached in three sections to reveal the interior. Though it appears potentially fragile, the central section is remarkably rigid and only links to the walls underneath using four studs near the corners, so the whole assembly is easily removable.
Actually reaching inside the glasshouse could be quite tricky, as the structure is relatively tall and the trees inside would be an obstruction. Fortunately, they are also removable. Access is still not ideal for play, although it is certainly sufficient to place minifigures inside and study the many plants, which are priorities for a display-oriented set.
Upon entering the building, visitors will find a desk to purchase tickets and collect audio guide equipment, using the headphones hanging on the wall. This is an effective use of space and I like how the desk is constructed, with enough room for some accessories underneath and the stickered computer screen on top, with a printed keyboard.
Only five stickers are applied throughout the set and the biggest is this noticeboard, featuring some references to the fan designer, Valentina Bima. These include an image of her dog and her LEGO Ideas project beside a photo of Valentina herself, carrying a plant and mirroring the aforementioned tour guide.
Dark green vines grow around the entrance, originating from the first of several raised flower beds. Inside are three bamboo stems and some smaller flowers, which make amazing use of the antenna element previously included in a Minions set and worn by the Impostor Collectable Minifigure. This piece is new in dark pink and a spare is supplied.
On the other side of the entrance we find a bed housing such plants as Anthurium and Coffea arabica. Their designs are certainly recognisable, although I would prefer a darker colour than vibrant coral for the Anthuria's distinctive spathes. Many varieties exist, but a deep red tends to be the most common.
Printed 1x1 tiles form signs identifying several of the plants and six are distributed through the garden, with another two as spares. These look splendid and feature the same vine pattern as the sticker on the computer by the entrance. Another creative detail is the missing yellow flower beside the coffee plant, plucked by a young visitor to the glasshouse!
The building is divided into three parts, with the arid garden located to the left of the entrance. Once again, the familiar leaf pattern returns on the sign above, which requires another sticker. The surrounding wall looks rather bland in the image below, although it looks better with all the trees in place.
In addition to the removable roof, the back wall is designed to detach, which greatly improves access. Inside are a selection of cacti, including the tall Pachycereus marginatus in the corner, as identified in the instruction manual. All four cacti look realistic, but I wish the room was larger to accommodate even more.
A bird has also taken up residence inside the arid garden, doubtless attracted by the warmth. The nest atop a lamp in the corner looks perfect, represented by a fur collar piece, which is a clever technique seen several times before.
Returning to the main atrium, the aforementioned removable trees occupy a significant space. The first is Eucalyptus pauciflora, commonly known as the snow gum or cabbage gum. I think sand green was a suitable colour choice for its leaves and their slender form matches the real tree, which is native to Eastern Australia.
The dark tan bark looks excellent as well, with Technic connectors forming the trunk and lower branches, while seaweed elements are used towards the top. The leaves are therefore fittingly dense, although the dark bluish grey Technic pins used on the trunk seem a little out of place.
Several more flowers are growing beneath the Eucalyptus, including two Lupins, which make clever use of roller skates. The inverted crowns hanging from the Brugmansia look perfect as well, while the Bird of Paradise plants are a welcome addition, given Chris McVeigh designed 10289 Bird of Paradise for the Botanical Collection.
I love the bright green tooth elements comprising a fern behind the Bird of Paradise, with the famously odorous Rafflesia arnoldii beside them. Commonly known as the corpse flower, this plant produces the largest single flower of any in the world and the use of red epaulettes for its massive flower is clever, although there should only be five lobes, rather than six.
The undulating shape of the flower bed is appealing, with space for several mushrooms and fungi in the next area. The continued variety of colours is appealing and scattered 1x1 round tiles and small flowers provide nice texture around the more eye-catching plants. Speaking of which, two pitcher plants grow under the staircase, represented by lime green broom pieces.
Valentina's original design included a long spiral staircase to reach a treetop platform. Though this feature has been reduced in size for the final model, the use of 1x4 fence elements for the steps remains, as does its elegant appearance. The steps are neatly held in place with Technic bushes and they feel completely secure, although posing a minifigure on them is tricky.
Fortunately, you can place a few characters on the platform instead, from where they have an exceptional view of the trees. These are a common feature of botanical gardens, including the famed example inside the Temperate House at Kew Gardens. The patterned railing around the platform looks marvellous, matching those outside the main entrance.
Technic gears form the date palm's textured trunk, with olive green leaves arrayed around the top. These elements, produced for the DREAMZzz theme, have only appeared once before in olive green, in 10340 Wreath. You can swap the indoor trees around if you wish, although their bases are colour-coded, so they are evidently intended to stand in these positions.
Glasshouses are susceptible to extreme temperatures, so visitors may wish to take advantage of the café, accessed beside the staircase. The sign on the wall includes our fourth sticker and mirrors that over the entrance to the arid garden.
The steps down into the café look lovely and I like the continued tan and medium nougat tiled pattern throughout the botanical garden. The counter looks great too, displaying a selection of printed pastries underneath and a cake on top. Moreover, the menu on the wall is a printed 2x2 tile, introduced in 60366 Ski and Climbing Centre last year.
A coffee maker is placed against the wall, maybe using beans harvested from the plant in the atrium. This simple assembly looks realistic and I like the hanging baskets behind the counter too, using white BB-8 heads upside down for the actual baskets.
There is no room for seating inside the café, but minifigures can sit down outside. Once again, the decorative railings are attractive and the tiled pattern from the entrance is repeated across this patio, which ties the whole model together beautifully. Similarly, the dark tan border around the base of the glasshouse looks superb, complementing tan bands across the walls.
Several four-leaf clover 1x1 round tiles can be discovered around the garden, including one at the back. These are another neat inclusion and were apparently a relatively late addition to the set, suggested by the fan designer.
The back of the glasshouse is similar to the front, albeit obviously lacking the entrance porch. There are very few flowers on this side, but the garden invites expansion and adding another couple of baseplates laden with plants would be easy, potentially continuing the path from the café.
Additionally, some of the gardeners' equipment is found behind the glasshouse, such as a tool rack and a hose, with a bucket and watering can waiting to be filled. I love the water streaming from the hose, as well as the flexible hose itself, which was developed for the Avatar range.
The squirrel inside the dustbin is a fun addition as well, standing on a black minifigure head to keep it in this position. Between the birds, beetle and rabbit, there are lots of animals included, although I am surprised by the lack of bees. After all, the perfect 1x1 round tile is available and has already appeared in multiple sets this year.
Overall
Considering the lofty expectations placed on 21353 The Botanical Garden, after the stunning Friends equivalent produced last year, I am thoroughly impressed with this model. Its realistic architecture is striking on display and the selection of plants included is remarkable, especially because so many involve ingenious building techniques.
There are plenty of new elements too, notably including two flowers, which should open many more possibilities for interesting flowers in future sets. Similarly, I am happy with the minifigure selection and the price of £289.99, $329.99 or €329.99 seems relatively reasonable for a model of this size, although given the number of tiny pieces included, maybe it could have been a bit lower.
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53 comments on this article
It’s a pity I’d struggle to store this model after displaying it as it’s a very nice piece of work.
This is totally my kind of set. And yet, looking at them side by side, I can't help but wonder if I prefer the Friends one...
Still think it's a bit weird that a blind person was included in a set heavily based around visual experience. IDK it just seems a bit unfair to that guy, even with an audio tour.
@WolfpackBricksStudios said:
"Still think it's a bit weird that a blind person was included in a set heavily based around visual experience. IDK it just seems a bit unfair to that guy, even with an audio tour."
With all those flowers, especially the corpse flower, it's probably an interesting olfactory experience.
It took me 11 hours to build, enjoying the new pieces, colours, technics and dreaming to visit this botanical garden, especially the arid room.
"Between the birds, beetle and rabbit, there are lots of animals included, although I am surprised by the lack of bees. After all, the perfect 1x1 round tile is available and has already appeared in multiple sets this year."
Haven't you heard, the bees are disappearing...
A very nice build.
And I wonder how much the sales of this set were affected by 41757
@WolfpackBricksStudios said:
"Still think it's a bit weird that a blind person was included in a set heavily based around visual experience. IDK it just seems a bit unfair to that guy, even with an audio tour."
Not really, as there is much more to experiencing a botanical garden than simply looking at the plants. Their smell and texture are also important and there are lots of gardens actually designed to emphasise those qualities.
To me the best set of the year. It was a joy to build and looks amazing
I have the set, but it's a Christmas present, so it remains boxed in my hall, along with several others, the worst temptation.
Can't wait to build and compare to my 2 friends set model.
Really, TLG? You released a set where one employee is being aggressively flirtatious, her coworker is freaking out because she’s not remotely his type, and the barista is sick of how frequently other employees have been getting fired for harassment? Not cool, man. Not cool.
@WolfpackBricksStudios:
Blind people can have sensory experiences that you are incapable of, because the portions of their brain that would normally process vision instead get patched into other senses, making them more powerful. Some blind people can identify people they know by the sound of their gait, and a while back I saw something about blind people who are learning to hear how sounds interact with solid surfaces to basically achieve a form of echolocation. Also, botanical gardens sometimes double as an aviary, and hardcore birders count hearing the call of a bird the same as seeing the bird, so someone walking through an aviary has the potential to identify a few dozen birds that aren’t native to the area.
When I notice the blind guy, I thought that the building is not designed for a person in a wheel chair.
The only complaint I can find about this set is that when the roofs attached, there so much of the inner detailing thats obscured and hard to see from the outside. Otherwise I love it. Just need to find a space to display it before I could justify buying it. That and hope for a discount as I do agree that its a little expensive for what you get, vast majority of parts being single stud flower pieces.
@GrizBe said:
"The only complaint I can find about this set is that when the roofs attached, there so much of the inner detailing thats obscured and hard to see from the outside."
This observation would apply to almost any LEGO set with a detailed interior so I'm not sure we can hold it against this set. :o)
A gorgeous set in every sense of the word. Every little detail is something to celebrate. Unfortunately I could never justify this price for a set focused on such small pieces. It almost feels like a shame to build the walls around the plants. The Lego Friends botanical garden is phenomenal and I’d quickly recommend it to anybody miffed they can’t afford this one.
Absolutely love this, giving great memories of visits to Kew's Palm House.
It was always a worry that this Ideas submission would never have gone any further once the nice, but obviously much simpler Friends version appeared. Absolutely delighted that it made it, and ended up as the best set of the year... maybe ever.
The koala from the cmf series now finally can eat some eucalyptus.
@Mister_Jonny said:
"It’s a pity I’d struggle to store this model after displaying it as it’s a very nice piece of work."
And I'm wondering where I would possibly put the modification that I want to try: SIX baseplates, with the greenhouse expanded a bit in depth, and 16 studs more outside space on the left and right sides.
@yellowcastle said:
" @GrizBe said:
"The only complaint I can find about this set is that when the roofs attached, there so much of the inner detailing thats obscured and hard to see from the outside."
This observation would apply to almost any LEGO set with a detailed interior so I'm not sure we can hold it against this set. :o)"
My intellect connection decided to fail when I was writing that, probably due to lack of caffeine and having a cold... Think what I really mean is that it feels like theres a little too much detail hidden with it being so enclosed and you have to take too much of it apart to really appreciate it.
@CapnRex101 said:
" @WolfpackBricksStudios said:
"Still think it's a bit weird that a blind person was included in a set heavily based around visual experience. IDK it just seems a bit unfair to that guy, even with an audio tour."
Not really, as there is much more to experiencing a botanical garden than simply looking at the plants. Their smell and texture are also important and there are lots of gardens actually designed to emphasise those qualities."
The set designers referenced this in one of the reveal videos. They wanted to include the figure to emphasise that a botanical garden wasn't exclusively a visual experience.
The 2 sets go well together. Though the bigger one is a nice building, I still think the Friends one is the better Botanical Garden. The plants are better.
I'm usually not one to complain about the changes from the original submissions for Ideas sets, but these were more aggregious for me. The end set lacks the Crystal Palace-esque grandeur that the original had, and what in the world is up with LEGO doing away with Modular compatible designs? So many folks have a city layout based on this design, and lately they just wanna throw it out the window?
Some botanical gardens have sensory garden areas where plants are grown for smell or tactile experience, so there are spaces a blind guest could easily enjoy.
Also, regarding rafflesia arnoldii, it is not the only plant known as the corpse flower, and might not be the first plant to come to mind with that name--there's also the titan arum corpse flower, which is very tall with a wide purple petal at the base and an internal column of sorts called the spadix. The bloom of a titan arum is always an event of intrigue because it is on such a slow cycle. Rafflesia can also have the more distinct title "stinking corpse lily".
I finished building this last week and it has been sitting proudly on the dining table since.
It really is lovely. So much detail.
But the main point to this was to say that this is the first set that my wife has ever made a positive comment about without any prompting.
That really is some endorsement, I was shocked :-)
@yap said:
"When I notice the blind guy, I thought that the building is not designed for a person in a wheel chair. "
I don’t know if this is something that applies everywhere in the world, but in the US, typically as building code evolves, you’re allowed to ignore most of the updates as long as you don’t make any changes to the structure that would require a building permit. The instant you do something of that nature, you’re on the hook for bringing the entire structure up to current code.
Growing up, my family’s church wanted to add a balcony to accommodate more people when the congregation outgrew the space. To do that, they would have also had to install an elevator to get between floors. Problem is, the elevator cost about the same as the balcony, and they could only afford to do one. There already was one congregant who had to use a wheelchair, and she’d been having to exit the building to get between floors, plus this was always going to be a roadblock to expanding the building, so they scrapped the plans for the balcony, added a third morning service in the summer, and got the elevator installed.
The historic non-profit theater where my dad runs the volunteer maintenance crew wanted to get their parking lot sealed and have the lines repainted (it looked like nobody in living memory had ever seen them with new paint). To do that, they had to meet current rules on the quantity and types of handicap parking space, which required a complex reorganization of a large chunk of the parking lot (which required me pointing out you could always go over without penalty, when they ended up with an extra half space due to the changes).
That same theatre also wanted to make some upgrades, and ran into a similar problem regarding handicap accessible restrooms (the existing restrooms were down short flights of stairs on either side of the lobby, and they had to use a portable ramp to get wheelchairs down and back up). Again, they could only afford one project, so the original plan got scrapped, they moved the manager’s office to another part of the building, and installed a handicap-accessible family-style restroom (open floor plan, single toilet, and a wide door that can be locked to ensure privacy) where the office used to be.
It’s not unheard of for building management to indefinitely hold off on any significant changes because the budget for the “want to” is exceeded by the number of “must dos” that they’ve been deferring for decades. Giving up is usually free. This applies especially to historic structures, where updates may be generations out of compliance, and then they also have get any major updates approved based on how they fit with the building’s historical status. For a glass atrium, that might be a nightmare to manage.
@AlfredHitchcock said:
" @Mister_Jonny said:
"It’s a pity I’d struggle to store this model after displaying it as it’s a very nice piece of work."
And I'm wondering where I would possibly put the modification that I want to try: SIX baseplates, with the greenhouse expanded a bit in depth, and 16 studs more outside space on the left and right sides."
It does look a bit crowded, plant and minifigure wise, I'd be intrigued to see that modification.
So I could buy this set, or I could buy 4 of 41757 and have lunch. Hmmm...
I loved putting this set together most fun I've had since Tallneck or maybe Blacksmith.
Except I hated the floor tiles on the interior/sidewalk tiles on the exterior. They're overdone and lead to a lot of no-stud space. It was also a lot of 1x1 and 1x2 tiles, in a weird pattern, so annoying to apply.
I was happy for baseplate rather than a brick-built-base for this set, but it made it awkward to try to attach the GWP entry archway to the front (it was built on a plate).
@GrizBe said:
" @yellowcastle said:
" @GrizBe said:
"The only complaint I can find about this set is that when the roofs attached, there so much of the inner detailing thats obscured and hard to see from the outside."
This observation would apply to almost any LEGO set with a detailed interior so I'm not sure we can hold it against this set. :o)"
My intellect connection decided to fail when I was writing that, probably due to lack of caffeine and having a cold... "
If only I had a cup o' joe for every time that happened!
Thank you once again to @CapnRex101 for a great review. I always enjoy the Brickset staff reviews. :)
This review has made me like the set more. Nice to see Australia get a mention for once from lego, I wondered if that was a gum tree.
The outside is... beyond amazing. No complaints there, very lovely, and as you mention its great that its bright and engaging while still being realistic. (lots of people annoyingly seem to think the latter must always be sacrificed for the former).
The hose is a very fun little detail, as are the four leaf clovers. I only wish I could buy those flower beds separately for my city park.
Thank you for explaining all the plants on the inside, it seems like Chris McVeigh had a lot of fun capturing each plant's likeness.
However I strongly disagree with Mr VcVeigh when it comes to height variation. The same thing was done in Natural History Museum and to be it just wastes space and pieces. For instance look at the review pictures for the cafe and arid garden. The addition of stairs makes them even more squashed than those rooms need to be (compared to if one could just walk straight through).
As I commented before, like NHM, I'm just not happy with the interior layout. Something's not right about it. I understand and agree with wanting space for minifigures to walk around, but again like NHM I just feel space couldve been better used here. It's this massive, (and very expensive) building, yet the interior still feels both too pokey and empty at the same time.
I went to Kew Gardens but that was 10 years ago so my memory may be wrong but I feel like the paths were a bit narrower than like in this lego model, it definitely felt more like a lush rainforest (or other plant geographical zone) than is presented here.
Finally, the price. See thanks to this review, Id definitely consider getting this..... but I can't. Because its friggin half a grand $500 AUD. There's zero reason for it to need to be that expensive. As with sets like Motorised Lighthouse, the physical lego here is awesome (at least on the outside) and Id LOVE to have this in my city.
But with a ridiculous price like that, combined with my reservations about the interior, its a no go. I believe many fans will feel the same, especially considering the Friends Botanical Garden exists which is far better value (and as other comments have said does a much better job with the interior)
At first I questioned the choice to have a couple of the visitors have horror or disgust on their alternate faces. Then the reveal that there’s a rafflesia amongst the other plants and suddenly those faces make much more sense
@StyleCounselor said:
" @GrizBe said:
"My intellect connection decided to fail when I was writing that, probably due to lack of caffeine and having a cold... "
If only I had a cup o' joe for every time that happened!"
We'd be renaming you the CoffeeBaron?
I like the use of the wand piece as the blind guy's cane. That way, he can be posed with it pointing out, feeling around.
I’m a large set sticker whinger but would have actually bought it but for the excess of minifigures and subsequent price. A shame.
@PurpleDave said:
"Growing up, my family’s church wanted to add a balcony to accommodate more people when the congregation outgrew the space.
... so they scrapped the plans for the balcony, added a third morning service in the summer, and got the elevator installed."
Wow. Over here this would never happen. Churches all over the country are desperately trying to boost attendance, but with so many people quitting their membership (mainly in order to save the church tax, but also because of the many abuse and misconduct scandals that surfaced in recent years) it's a wonder that church services can be upheld at all. Other than at Christmas the services are more than half empty most of the time, and if it wasn't for senior citizens there would hardly be any attendees.
Many churches are being turned into other venues as well. Or like in our parish services alternate between towns so that the chances of getting a larger attendance grow.
Sad but true.
@Ridgeheart said:
"Change the bees you want to see in the world."
Once I finally get around to building 10338, I'll get right on that.
It's a nice looking set, with these IDEAS reviews I'm always interested in seeing how much of the original designers build has been retained. I'm not sure what this would add to the set review, I just find the contrast interesting (especially when the original submission is so highly detailed as this one was).
One note, the Chris McVeigh/photographers torso isn't new to this set, it's on the pilot fig in this years jungle exploration sets https://brickset.com/minifigs/tag-Pilot/year-2024/category-Town/subcategory-City-Jungle
So many modular sets.
@GrizBe said:
" @StyleCounselor said:
" @GrizBe said:
"My intellect connection decided to fail when I was writing that, probably due to lack of caffeine and having a cold... "
If only I had a cup o' joe for every time that happened!"
We'd be renaming you the CoffeeBaron? "
I'll take that.
As someone who spends some time in a garden, I think that the gardeners should wear gloves.
@AustinPowers:
First, this was when I was still a teen, so a few years ago. Things may have changed since then. But there’s no church tax here. Tithing is purely voluntary. Many of the people who came here in large groups did so to obtain religious freedom, both before and after the nation gained independence. Religion is one of the five freedoms enshrined in our 1st Amendment (along with speech, press, assembly, and petition), so Congress can’t even tax churches.
But I’ve definitely seen some wither while others thrive. Unfortunately, the ones that seem to thrive the most are the nondenominational megachurches that are basically owned by the man standing in the pulpit. Rarely are those dedicated to any cause other than making that man rich.
Is the botanical garden considered the modular for this year? or is the new modular still to be announced??
@PurpleDave said:
" @AustinPowers:
First, this was when I was still a teen, so a few years ago. Things may have changed since then. But there’s no church tax here. Tithing is purely voluntary. Many of the people who came here in large groups did so to obtain religious freedom, both before and after the nation gained independence. Religion is one of the five freedoms enshrined in our 1st Amendment (along with speech, press, assembly, and petition), so Congress can’t even tax churches.
But I’ve definitely seen some wither while others thrive. Unfortunately, the ones that seem to thrive the most are the nondenominational megachurches that are basically owned by the man standing in the pulpit. Rarely are those dedicated to any cause other than making that man rich. "
Such "churches" wouldn't even be legal here.
And there may have been a misunderstanding about the taxation. Over here it's not the churches that are taxed, but the churches tax their members. Those taxes are like income tax in that a certain percentage of your income (from work as well as financial income like dividends, interest etc.) is directly subtracted from said income. In Bavaria that's 8 percent, in other German federal states it's 9 percent of all income. Many people don't feel like they are getting their money's worth these days, so the decide to quit. There's only two main churches in Germany anyway. You are (as a Christian) either Roman Catholic or Protestant. If you are a member of a different faith (Muslim, Jewish, Hindu etc.) the above rules don't apply.
@AustinPowers:
I know the Church of England is basically run by the monarch, and the citizens are basically taxed by the government to support the church…which is what groups like the Pilgrims were trying to get away from. No church has the legal right to “tax” their members here. Offerings are collected during the service, but on a purely voluntary basis.
@PurpleDave: taxes are the main income of the church (both denominations), but they also collect offerings during services, on a voluntary basis too, but you somehow feel obliged to give something every time anyway, peer pressure I would call it.
@sneff said:
"Is the botanical garden considered the modular for this year? or is the new modular still to be announced??"
This year's Modular Building was 10326 Natural History Museum, although it was actually released in December of last year. The next Modular Building has yet to be announced.
@PurpleDave said:
" @AustinPowers :
I know the Church of England is basically run by the monarch, and the citizens are basically taxed by the government to support the church…which is what groups like the Pilgrims were trying to get away from. No church has the legal right to “tax” their members here. Offerings are collected during the service, but on a purely voluntary basis."
This is not accurate in relation to the UK, at least for the last few centuries! The government does contribute to the maintenance of listed church buildings,but that is only a tiny amount in the grand scheme of things*. There is no taxation specifically to support the church.
Even if people did object to this small government contribution, I think there is a strong case to be made that maintaining things like cathedrals is a good investment based on their value as tourist attractions, apart from anything else.
* I just looked it up and the contribution is £42 million annually.
@CapnRex101 said:
" This is not accurate in relation to the UK, at least for the last few centuries! The government does contribute to the maintenance of listed church buildings,but that is only a tiny amount in the grand scheme of things*. There is no taxation specifically to support the church.
Even if people did object to this small government contribution, I think there is a strong case to be made that maintaining things like cathedrals is a good investment based on their value as tourist attractions, apart from anything else.
* I just looked it up and the contribution is £42 million annually."
I second this is the case here, and that the £42million is entirely a conservation fund that goes on maintaining about 5000 listed churches and other religious buildings in the UK.
Church funding in the UK comes from either from donations, or fully through the churches own assets (property and land rents etc).
Large majority of churchs here though are either only open part time, or have been sold off for redevelopement. Theres 3 large churchs within walking distance of where I live, one only ever opens for special services for schools (easter, christmas etc) and doesn't do sunday or public services, ones only open because of its attached hall thats used for Scout and other youth groups, and for a soup kitchen, and the thirds been up for sale for about 5 years now.
Its not just Christian/Catholic places of worship though... We've also two synagogues in my area that have closed down, along with a mosque. People simply aren't religious in my area.
I guess it's just typical of the German system where everything is taxed, even members of some religions. And believe it or not, some things here are taxed several times. Yes, there's even taxes on tax! Go figure.
@CapnRex101:
I learned about it in relation to the move in the UK to have Jedi declared as one's religion, so it definitely made it sound like it was every bit as current as the TV tax. Regarding the use of public funds to perform upkeep, it sounds like this has been controversial, on both sides, in France. When France declared that all churches of a certain age (100 years?) were going to become government property, with use rights given to their congregations, people on the one side complained that they were no longer in control of their own houses of worship, and had restrictive rules regarding what they could and could not do with the structure. And people whose buildings were too new to get taken over complained because the upkeep on these buildings was now being funded by taxpayers, where theirs needed to be funded by their congregations. So, lose-lose situation, there, apparently.
In the US, we have the ability to request historic status for any building that has turned 100 years old, but I'm not sure if doing so yields funding for upkeep. I do know that it imposes severe restrictions on what you can and can't do with the structure, so it's definitely a choice you have to think about going in.
@GrizBe:
In the US, the Roman Catholic Church took advantage of the 1st Amendment, and bought up parcels of non-taxable real estate before population growth really warranted it. This allowed them to buy on the cheap, then build when there were enough people to make it worth establishing a new parish. And now they're shutting a lot of those down, because the church no longer has the numbers to pay the upkeep (plus they've had some legal troubles that have drained their coffers). So things kinda seem to fall into two camps for them. Either it's a large, ornate, historic cathedral that they're going to keep operating as long as they can, or it's a small, modernish structure that's deemed expendable in a pinch.
@AustinPowers:
Yes, we know you have VAT. But that's not just Germany. That's most of Europe.
@AustinPowers said:
"I guess it's just typical of the German system where everything is taxed, even members of some religions. And believe it or not, some things here are taxed several times. Yes, there's even taxes on tax! Go figure. "
So I'm assuming you have a tax on tacks?
@PurpleDave : well, the US has VAT too from what I experienced back in the day in Ohio, though it might have been called differently.
But that's not what I meant. What I meant is that there are products that are taxed for a certain historical reason, like tobacco, alcohol, fuel, insurance, etc. With these products, VAT is calculated not on the basis of the net price but on the price including the first type of tax. So you pay VAT on say insurance tax, or fuel tax. And one might indeed ask where the added value of that tax is for the consumer.
@mtpelepele said:
"and what in the world is up with LEGO doing away with Modular compatible designs?"
What do you mean by that? It's built on base plates so it can be easily combined with modulars.
@AustinPowers:
Sales tax? Generally speaking, it’s only charged once, to the end consumer. VAT gets compounded every time the product changes hands.