Petra X's Reviews > Stranger in a Strange Land
Stranger in a Strange Land
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Petra X's review
bookshelves: 2015-reviews, books-read-a-long-time-ago, fiction, reviewed
Jun 15, 2008
bookshelves: 2015-reviews, books-read-a-long-time-ago, fiction, reviewed
"Nine times out of ten, if a girl gets raped, it’s at least partly her own fault." The most quoted sentence from this book.
He's right it is. A woman should shroud herself in black, even wear a veil over her eyes and for extra protection she should wear a big size of Doc Martin boots so it could be a man under the shroud (Michael Jackson used to do that) and always be accompanied when she goes out. Which should be rarely. Very rarely. When she is in the house (most of the time) she should have the view through windows obscured and a chain on the door. No man who is not related to her should enter. Not workmen, not the police, not her son's friends from school. No one. Then she won't be raped.
If she doesn't do all of the above, and she she is raped it is obviously her fault. If she does do all of the above and she is raped, then she should examine her conscience and see if there was something else she could have done to protect herself and didn't.
This sounds like Saudi Arabia right? Or Afghanistan or any of those countries. This is because I was reading how there are very few rapes in these countries. It wouldn't have anything to do with the harsher penalties that the courts often apply to the victim rather than the rapist would it? (view spoiler).
I suppose if you hold the attitude of it must be her fault '9 times out of 10' her punishment is just and knowing that, she isn't going to complain. Is this the world Heinlen, a large number of British and Caribbean judges (I don't know about American ones so much) would like to see? I don't think so, but then they still blame women. "She was drunk", "she wore a short skirt", "she was out alone at night", or even simply, "she was out", "she opened the door to a workman", she, she, she... Normal men don't rape, they like the woman to enjoy sex too. Rape is a crime of assault and violence. Normal men who like the idea of hard, violent sex like women who enjoy that kink too. Rape is never, ever, ever the response to lust by a normal man.
It would be best if a woman home-schooled her daughters so that they are never exposed to risk but since they will not be going out very much, probably education beyond reading, writing and using a computer is pointless as housework, cooking and childcare will be all she really needs and she can get that from the endless reality shows she will no doubt watch as there isn't anything else much to do. A lot of men in the world would like to see this, minus the computer use. A lot of men in the world actually enforce this on women. And they still have rape in those countries.
The book was brilliant and I read it years before I had my consciousness raised (horrible phrase). Just glanced at it again today and was reading some reviews and this rant just bubbled up, as they do.
5 stars for being a brilliant book. 1 star for attitude towards women, total misogyny. Average 3 stars.
He's right it is. A woman should shroud herself in black, even wear a veil over her eyes and for extra protection she should wear a big size of Doc Martin boots so it could be a man under the shroud (Michael Jackson used to do that) and always be accompanied when she goes out. Which should be rarely. Very rarely. When she is in the house (most of the time) she should have the view through windows obscured and a chain on the door. No man who is not related to her should enter. Not workmen, not the police, not her son's friends from school. No one. Then she won't be raped.
If she doesn't do all of the above, and she she is raped it is obviously her fault. If she does do all of the above and she is raped, then she should examine her conscience and see if there was something else she could have done to protect herself and didn't.
This sounds like Saudi Arabia right? Or Afghanistan or any of those countries. This is because I was reading how there are very few rapes in these countries. It wouldn't have anything to do with the harsher penalties that the courts often apply to the victim rather than the rapist would it? (view spoiler).
I suppose if you hold the attitude of it must be her fault '9 times out of 10' her punishment is just and knowing that, she isn't going to complain. Is this the world Heinlen, a large number of British and Caribbean judges (I don't know about American ones so much) would like to see? I don't think so, but then they still blame women. "She was drunk", "she wore a short skirt", "she was out alone at night", or even simply, "she was out", "she opened the door to a workman", she, she, she... Normal men don't rape, they like the woman to enjoy sex too. Rape is a crime of assault and violence. Normal men who like the idea of hard, violent sex like women who enjoy that kink too. Rape is never, ever, ever the response to lust by a normal man.
It would be best if a woman home-schooled her daughters so that they are never exposed to risk but since they will not be going out very much, probably education beyond reading, writing and using a computer is pointless as housework, cooking and childcare will be all she really needs and she can get that from the endless reality shows she will no doubt watch as there isn't anything else much to do. A lot of men in the world would like to see this, minus the computer use. A lot of men in the world actually enforce this on women. And they still have rape in those countries.
The book was brilliant and I read it years before I had my consciousness raised (horrible phrase). Just glanced at it again today and was reading some reviews and this rant just bubbled up, as they do.
5 stars for being a brilliant book. 1 star for attitude towards women, total misogyny. Average 3 stars.
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Reading Progress
Started Reading
January 1, 2000
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Finished Reading
June 15, 2008
– Shelved
February 14, 2015
– Shelved as:
2015-reviews
February 14, 2015
– Shelved as:
books-read-a-long-time-ago
February 14, 2015
– Shelved as:
fiction
May 5, 2015
– Shelved as:
reviewed
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Mark
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Feb 14, 2015 03:41PM
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Until the early 1980s in the United States, women who were raped were often blamed for being raped. When raped on a date were blamed for what happened: "You must have led him on!" Or if they were drinking, anything that happened to them was just desserts.
Even today, rape at college campuses are being mishandled more times than not.
Some states like California are trying to change the situation with laws like the recent "yes means yes" law, so there is hope. Until half the politicians are women I don't expect much change.
That's the Karda$hians out of business then. Also all the pics taken by the star's people who carry their gym bag for them and sell pics of Aniston, Beyonce et al going into/exiting the gym without *gasp* makeup and with tight yoga pants. LOL.
What is 'legitimate rape'? Rape is an evil, very often violent, assault on a woman, how can that ever be legitimate?
What is 'legitimate rape'? Rape is an evil, very often violent, assault on a woman, how can that ever be legitimate?"
My best guess is that he meant martial rape?
I'm not well-versed in the trash some politicians talk though.
What is 'legitimate rape'? Rape is an evil, very often violent, assault on a woman, how can that ever be legitimate?"
My best guess..."
Rape remains rape though, such an act does not belong in a marriage. And any politician speaking out in favor for it in any way should NOT be in politics.
Here's an article on the repugnant episode referred to Todd Akin Provokes Ire with 'Legitimate Rape' Comment.
I think if Akin really believed in all that he should also have said that the rapist, the father, should be given the child to raise. He will hopefully be in prison, so his family will have to raise the child or it will have to be adopted which is probably the best possible thing for the child anyway.
I cannot imagine a worse living hell than having to raise a child conceived from a violent rape. And one day the child would find out.
What is 'legitimate rape'? Rape is an evil, very often violent, assault on a woman, how can that ever be legitimate?"
"Legitimate rape" isn't just a reference to excluding marital rape -- although, natch, the Far Right believes that wives belong to their husbands body and soul. It also hales to the notion that if women get drunk or are anything other than a model of virtue, then she's to blame, not the poor boy who simply couldn't control his baser impulses. So if she has a few beers too many or she falls for the line that they should go back to his room to see his etchings, then she got her just desserts. It's 1950s barbarism at its worst.
Plus, Petra, don't you know that so many of these modern girls are just lying vixens? They're women of easy virtue who then become remorseful about sex and just lie about it. I notice that the Far Right doesn't assume that most people who report a burglary are defrauding their insurer and that most people who report a mugging are just seeking attention; however, you can read all sorts of articles in the Far Right press about how, sadly, there are rapes, but there not as common as you'd think because women lie about rape to get attention and to assuage their guilt over sex. Who knew that girls with guilt complexes were the most likely to engage in sex?
I also notice that, when a man gets drunk, it's not, therefore, OK to steal his wallet or for a gay man to rape him. Can't understand why there's a double standard.
It's just as disgusting as you imagined.
Normal men which is most of the ones I've met most of my life wouldn't want to rape a woman, it isn't their idea of fun at all. And they would feel dishonoured not by a woman who was raped in their family, but by a man who was a rapist.
I once did a series on lectures of sexuality and when we came to the subject of rape I found that the women had tougher ideas than the boys did. they claimed generally that women should know better and if they didn't they could only blame themselves. And what I found shocking was that they excused men in the sense that they were who they were......
Considering I just heard a female co-worker talk about how feminism is too blame for half of the evils in America, I don't. The same co-worker was surprised when a student walked out of her class. The co-worker was starting a conversation about rape with "some women led men on".
I totally understand having a legitmate conversation about gender and intercourse (a certain key on my keyboard does not work, so now I look like prude) in modern college life, but that is not the way to start it.
I'll make it worse, the first time I encountered that was with female colleagues that studied like me Youth welfare, to be honest anything about sexuality scared the living daylights out of them including homosexuality, gender politics and such. It made me doubt sincerely if I had chosen the wrong kind of work.
Maybe it is an American thing? I do note that in the forums of the The Daily Rag which is full of disgruntled Tory voters (ie. right wing) the Americans are much more right wing, religious and traditional and tend to bring up Obama as being to blame for just about everything, that and immigrants.
Different cultures maybe. West Indian women are not the sort to blame themselves for rape or let men off it at all.
Truthfully I think we live on the same, and quite a few women even today could not care less unless it happened to a personal friend or acquaintance. We as humans do have the ability to justify about anything that does not apply to us, and the older we get the easier it gets.
Maybe the difference is you live in the first world which is more concerned about money, position and material goods and I live in the third, which is (still) much more about people.
Good review, Petra.
I'm with you about this rape business. The fact is that about half the women I know (including yours truly) have been raped at least once. And I live in the good ol' US of A.
I have not heard women blaming other rape victims, although I know this attitude existed for a long time and still exists.
I do know this..that there is definitely a huge backlash against feminism at the moment. I posted something on LinkedIn suggesting that women still have to work much harder for less pay, and the blowback I got for that fairly innocuous post was hard to believe.
Petra---I will only say this. Remember that this book was written in the 60's and was a product of its times. You do have to put it in context.
And you are right, America has (sadly) gotten more and more right wing of late.
Perhaps Mummy I have worked too long in a part of our society where liberal values are less important if you want to live your life with the few things you have going for you. I do not thing that these women are hardened and disgusting they live in a different part of our society that can be callous toward humans in general. They work and live just like you and have values like you only they know that reality does more often than not kicks you in the teeth.
Calling women that are really the backbone to a working society names because they see and live a different reality than you is sometimes when I wonder about feminism. These women have never stopped surprising me and have left me more than once in awe because of what they manage to do and yet want to be loved as well.
The first world is not all about money, position and material goods. Most people do not belong to the top 1% and do their best to work and raise families the best way they can. ANd if politics manages to keep women down through medical insurances and unequal pay for women, what the heck do you expect?
Mind I am always up for debate :-) But I don't think either of us have had much impact on the other's point of view.
Mind I am always up for debate :-) But I don't think eithe..."
I find that Rebecca West said it best: "I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat."
I subscribe to the idea that feminism is the radical notion that women are people. I think the Far Right has had surprising success in tarring feminism as something bad.
I think feminism was great, but that was times past. I don't want to be a woman, equal or not, in a man's world. I think that world hasn't worked. Men and women are equal, all of us are equal as people whatever our talents or defects, but we are vastly different. I think it would be a better world organised around those talents. Women are better managers, men are better specialists (generalising). etc. etc.
. still trying to heal from all that :/
Recommendations?
more than a few floppy discs were melted when transferring my stash from the house's internet accessible machine to the more private 386
Having a bookshop I tend to think more on the lines of print books than stuff available online.
If prey doesn't want to be caught it must hide itself and, or make itself unattractive to the hunter. A deer doesn't casually stroll in front of a lion. You'd think that men would realise that women want what they want in life, freedom from fear of assault by anyone, freedom to do as they please, freedom to choose their own lives. But they don't. They say that God in His Heaven Above has decreed that woman should be prey.
Or just be undesirable to begin with. I had no men hitting on me at all in this last trip -- so I guess 48 is the magic number. I'm just old and ugly enough that men do NOT make lewd comments in my direction anymore (aside from the occasional short white dude telling me that I look like a man or ugly).
We should travel together! In Turkey, even with my partner, holding hands with him, men would touch me up and go as far, in a crowd, as grabbing my breasts. That is the most unpleasant country in the world for men. By far. I've been to probably about 50 countries and none compares with that. (I wasn't on the tourist side, I rarely travel to where tourists do)>
I wanna go to Greece this year - or Thailand - do you climb? :)
Not for years. I've never mountain-climbed, more hill-walking. I want to go to Thailand too. I spent the summer of 2016 in Bangkok and might go back this summer. My bf, as soon as his boat has been fixed (Irma damaged) wants to take a year to sail down to S America through the islands and then we will make a decision to go through the Panama Canal or not. (Me - YES, him, maybe. He likes coastal sailing, I like blue water).
I've only been to Athens in Greece, went through the Corinth Canal though, which was amazing.