Stephen's Reviews > Lord Foul's Bane

Lord Foul's Bane by Stephen R. Donaldson
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*Soul-saddened SIGH*.....Damn, damn, DAMN...life can really be full of suck.
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This book really torched my hopes and dreams. NOT because it was nightmarishly horrible (which it wasn’t) but because I wanted it to be so brimming with steaming chunks of mouth-watering awesome that I could write a stinging, snark-filled “anti-anti-Thomas Covenant” review...my rant against the ranters.

I suspected I had a excellent chance of really liking this story because most of the criticism of the series revolves around how douchy and unlikeable Thomas Covenant (the main character) is. Not a problem for this reader as I have no problem hating a protagonist as long they are interesting, well drawn and compelling. I don’t generally care if I like them. In fact, some of the most memorable characters I have come across have been ones that made me cringe like a baby before broccoli. I despised Patrick Bateman in American Psycho, Lou Ford in The Killer Inside Me, Heathcliff in Wuthering Heights, and even, at first, Tyrion Lannister** from A Game of Thrones).

** I must point out that my dislike for Tyrion didn’t last past the second book and I now want him to be my BFF because his awesomeness is off the charts.

So I didn’t forsee that an unlikeable main character was going to be much of an obstacle for me. Plus, having already enjoyed the first two installments of Donaldson’s “Gap” series, I knew the man could write so I figured I might be in for a real treat (and then I would show all those Thomas Covenant haters out there)........*cue sinister music*
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........*end sinister music*

Well for the first 70 to 75 pages my plan was working perfectly and I was sitting squarely in 5 star territory and starting to brainstorm what insults I would hurl at the “insult hurlers” in my defense of what I was sure must be “THE MOST MISUNDERSTOOD FANTASY CLASSIC OF ALL TIME.” Ah, if only someone would have warned me how wrong I was....
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I even flew right through the infamous rape scene and had my explanations/defenses already germinating in my caustic little brain. I was thinking ‘granted there is NO justification for rape, but we have seen similar events in other novels (e.g. The Outlander series that so many people seem to fawn over). Also, Covenant did express lingering guilt over this senseless and brutal act and his remorse is something that continues to play an important part in the narrative. Thus, I think his deep regret and loathing of himself for what he did and the “uncontrollable impulse” aspect of the initial crime makes Covenant’s behavior despicable while still holding out the possibility of his redemption. OOOOOOOHHHH take that all you haters!!!!
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[BRIEF INTERLUDE]

Those of you “Covenant haters” out there that are reading this and know the almost Shakespearean tragedy that was soon to befall me as my initial positive feelings for the book were horribly ripped away from me by the oncoming train wreck of its narrative problems, I can only hope that you can forgive my earlier arrogance in wanting to prove you wrong.

[END INTERLUDE]
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Unfortunately, shortly after the rape scene when I thought the story was really going to ramp up into uncharted bastions of EPICness, inconsistencies in the narrative structure began to really, really get in my way. Before I can explain, I need to give a brief thumbnail description of the basic plot.

Thomas Covenant is a leper....yes LEPER. How cool is that. The man has leprosy. He was a best-selling writer before he got the big “L” and lost two of the fingers on his right hand. He also lost his wife and child who packed up and moved on the greener pastures that had a little less leprosy in them. So Tommy boy has been going through the “mother of all” rough patches when we first meet him. Oh, Oh I almost forgot. The leprosy has also made him impotent....nice bonus!!!

So at the beginning of the story, TC is living alone in a perpetual pissed off mood and is being shunned by his entire community due to the whole “leprosy is icky” vibe he is putting out there. Well TC, as a not so subtle FU to the townsfolk, decides to walk down to the power company to pay his bill in person. During this excursion, he has an accident, loses consciousness and wakes up in “the Land” which is the fantasy world in which the series takes place. So far, so good.

Well Thomas doesn’t believe he is in a strange new world. He thinks he is unconscious or dreaming or in a coma, etc...He is afraid to take any of the new world seriously because he thinks it will indicate his final break with reality. TC’s grip on reality is all the more important to him due to his leprosy (trust me on this, no time to explain). Anyway, all of this sounds great to me. A fantasy character who doubts the world around him. Bring it on!!!!!

WAIT....WHAT IS THAT?......

DANGER.........

FLASHING RED LIGHTS...........

PROBLEM AHEAD....................

STEVE’S REVIEW (AND HIS WHOLE PLAN) IS HEADED FOR TROUBLE.......

NO, NO, NO, NO!!!!!!!!!..................

FULL STOP....TRAIN WRECK AHEAD.
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Note: you will have to imagine the sight of my murdered dreams as I could not find a picture that truly showed the horror of my disappointment.....
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Here is where Donaldson completely lost me and I lost all of my hopes of turning the "hate against the haters." Instead, the read became a waking nightmare that haunted me and began slowly crushing my will to live.
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You see, Thomas Covenant the “Unbeliever” is only partially and occasionally an unbeliever and only when his unbelief can be used to some kind of dramatic effect. Otherwise, he seems to take the world very, very seriously. This is THE central plot device of the entire series and it is more inconsistent than a politician during campaign season. In fact, I could probably open the book up anywhere during the last 300 pages and find an example of this inconsistency, but I will at least mention a few so you know what I mean.

At one critical point in the story, TC vows to stop eating because he believes that by starving he will “force the illusion of the world” to be revealed. Sounds good, but do you know what ole TC is doing when he makes the vow to ignore food?.....he’s grabbing the freaking wine skin and taking a swig!!!! HUH??? Food is illusion but I might as well “believe” in the wine.....I need some help on this one.
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Once I started looking for this, I found it everywhere. I asked myself whenever Covenant did anything...“if you are dreaming and you know it why are you bothering to do X Y and Z.” I NEVER got a good answer. AND HERE IS THE BIG ONE. Covenant doesn’t believe in the world and tells this to everyone who will listen AND YET he continues to follow the course laid out for him by Lord Foul at the beginning of his “dream” throughout the entire time he is there. Again, HUH????

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Despite his complete lack of belief in the reality of this fantasy world, TC goes through extreme hardship and turmoil to travel the length of the Land because he “conveniently” tells himself that continuing to move forward is the key. No, No, No, Mr. Donaldson, that makes no sense. The truth is it is just too inherently difficult to have a main character in a fantasy world not “participate” in the story.

You got yourself stuck!!

Bottom-line, if TC doesn’t believe where he is than he should ACT like it. Don’t just tell us and then occasionally say I won’t do such and such because none of this is real. Be true to your lack of convictions TC because otherwise you just come across as a failed literary experiment, which, unfortunately, is what I think you are.

Anyway, that is where the story lost me. I would add to the above major grievance that the narrative was also too disjointed and Donaldson was never able to really make the world come alive, despite the fact that some of the world-building elements were pretty interesting. Thus, while I liked the idea of the Land and some of the secondary characters (especially the giants) they came across too much like set pieces given the rather undefined nature of the world.

Overall, I think that Donaldson had a very interesting idea for a story but it just suffered from the fundamental flaw of being almost impossible to pull off in the context of a coherent narrative.

2.0 stars. *heavy sigh*
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Reading Progress

October 21, 2008 – Shelved
April 3, 2011 – Started Reading
April 6, 2011 – Finished Reading

Comments Showing 1-50 of 101 (101 new)


kwesi 章英狮 The dog was so so funny!


message 2: by Jackie (last edited Apr 09, 2011 07:40AM) (new)

Jackie With each review I read about Thomas, I'm more convinced to leave it on the bookshelf.


Mark Lawrence I'd score the book more highly (though I read it when it came out and both me and the times were different back in those days) - but my main comment was that this review was perhaps more entertaining than the book :) Best review I've read here!


message 4: by Hélène (last edited Apr 09, 2011 09:10AM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Hélène The unbelief was perhaps inconsistent but it was enough to quite spoil the novel for me. First time I realised I need the characters to accept the fantasy. I liked the Gap series and The mirror of her dreams so this isn't something about Donaldson's writing but I couldn't bear the "unbeliever" side.


message 5: by mark (new)

mark monday another naysayer...i feel like i am reading more negatives than positives these days about this series.

personally, i'm one of those wussy "leprosy is icky" type people, so i never really wanted to read it. i do have Mirror of Her Dreams somewhere in my paperback pile and will probably get to that way before i ever get to the adventures of Thomas: Leper, Rapist, Unbeliever, Whiner.


Stephen mark wrote: "another naysayer...i feel like i am reading more negatives than positives these days about this series.

personally, i'm one of those wussy "leprosy is icky" type people, so i never really wanted..."


I have read the first two volumes of his "Gap" series and think they are very good. I would certainly recommend checking out that series.


Contrarius I'm a little surprised that Covenant's inconsistency bothered you so much. Covenant is human, after all -- he's never going to be perfectly consistent in anything.

I liked these books very much, for their ideas if not their execution. What bothered me, though, is when Donaldson started throwing in scenes that didn't have Donaldson in them. To me, that gave the game away. It's okay if *Covenant* can't decide whether the Land is real or not -- but if there can be scenes that don't include Covenant (the putative dreamer), then we as readers KNOW that the Land must exist independently of his belief or lack thereof. It felt to me like giving away the solution to a murder mystery in the middle of the book.


message 8: by Tyrone (last edited Nov 06, 2011 10:40AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Tyrone I'm a believer i'm afraid.

It's been a little while since i've re-read the books but i didn't have any problams with the inconsistancy over his belief/ unbelief.

I thought that while he didn't believe, he did, like treating a psycosis, develop the theory that if he was to follow through 'with the quest', he might find a way to be released from it. That didn't mean that he really accepted that what was happening to him was real until much later.

With regard to the rape. While there is never any justification for the act, it does happen in real life and the perpertrators offer all sorts of justification for why it happened, just as Covenant does. It never makes it right and i don't think Donaldson ever attempts to convince the reader it is justified, but simply reflects Covenants normal reaction as a perpertrator of such a vile crime.

It is not as if Covenant ever gets off the hook for it. The repurcussions of the act resonate for the whole 6 books in the orginal series. It's to Donaldsons credit that he never attempts to make Covenant into a sympathetic character so we forget about the act he carried out.

Great review by the way!


Stephen Tyrone-

Your points are well taken and I agree with you that TC's reaction and lingering guilt about the rape was well handled by Donaldson. I think he is a talented writer and I love his Gap series. I just think that he set himself an impossible task with this protagonist and it just didn't work for me.


Tyrone Maybe. It worked fine for me.

Having read this not long after it was published it i can't really describe the effect that it had on me. Most epic fantasy was just regurgitated Tolkien so this really blew me away and i've never lost that reverence for the material.

Btw Star Trek 1 is still my favourite for exactly the same reason. I was new Trek starved and loved the film seeing it at the cinema. I still don't get those that hate on the film.


Marvin "Cringe like a baby before broccoli"

Can I borrow that phrase?;)

The Thomas Covenant series is my pick for worst fantasy series ever. Barely got through the first one and couldn't read the second. I hear they don't get any better.


Stephen Marvin wrote: ""Cringe like a baby before broccoli"

Can I borrow that phrase?;)..."


I'd be honored. Have at it.


Tyrone Marvin wrote: ""Cringe like a baby before broccoli"

Can I borrow that phrase?;)

The Thomas Covenant series is my pick for worst fantasy series ever. Barely got through the first one and couldn't read the secon..."


Marvin - I may be doing you a grave diservice but i checked out your listed books and you seem to have very few books shelved as fantasy and i didn't really detect much that i would consider to be fantasy amoungst that selection, and fewer that i would consider to be part of a fantasy series there either.
In benchmarking terms your data set is lousy...I hope you won't be offended if i don't take your comment on the books seriously as i can't take your knowledge of either the genre or even the 'series' element of the genre seriously either. Sorry.


message 14: by mark (new)

mark monday my golly, i certainly can't imagine how literally anyone could ever be offended by such words! who could possibly be offended by such mild statements - and they even come with an apology! aww. happy face!


message 15: by Marvin (last edited Nov 06, 2011 08:33PM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Marvin No apology needed, Tyrone. But I do feel the need to point out that my list of books on Goodreads is merely the tip of the iceberg sized list of books that I've read in my many years.

Just for the record, I have read lots of fantasy and admittedly mainstream fantasies are not necessarily my forte so you may have a point. Favorites include Moorcock's Elric series, anything by Clark Ashton Smith and of course that Tolkien fellow. Least favorites are books by Terry Brook and those about aforementioned leper. I like my fantasies dark but not whiny;)

But of course my opinion would be based only on what I've read and from what I've read, my opinion is ...Stephen Donaldson = Meh!.


Stephen Marvin wrote: "Favorites include Moorcock's Elric series, anything by Clark Ashton Smith and of course that Tolkien fellow. "

Have to agree on Moorcock's Elric series and CAS who is superb. Are you a big Lovecraft fan as well? He's definitely horror rather than fantasy, but most of CAS' work plowed similar territory.


message 17: by Richard (new)

Richard Derus Wow. I'd forgotten Clark Ashton Smith! "Xiccarph" was a favorite long ago. Wonder if I still have it somewhere?


Stephen Richard wrote: "Wow. I'd forgotten Clark Ashton Smith! "Xiccarph" was a favorite long ago. Wonder if I still have it somewhere?"

I have a 5 volume set of his complete collected works and am slowly working through them (I have only read volume 1 so far). Haven't come across "Xiccarph" yet but will keep my eye out for it.


message 19: by Richard (new)

Richard Derus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiccarph

It was a collection of Smith's work from several mythic cycles. Xiccarph was my favorite of the cycles, because "The Maze of Maal Dweb" was amazing to my 13-yr-old self. I don't know how it would hold up, but in my memories it was a supercalafragilisticexpialadocious movie that never got made. Wonder if one could make the movie now that technology is so incredibly advanced?


Stephen I have had the same thought. So many wonderful early stories of the strange and unusual that could be mined to make terrific movie.


message 21: by Richard (new)

Richard Derus Another idea of mine that got nowhere when proposed in the 1990s was "Astounding! Fantastic! Amazing! Theatre", making 90-min movies of Golden Age pulp stories *as they would have been made* to A-list tech standards of their day. Admittedly I started "their day" in 1956, when "Forbidden Planet" came out. Do one a week, use a lot of the same actors in a kind of repertory company, and have the still-living authors talk on the DVD extras.

Hell, I'd watch that even today.


Stephen You would have at least one loyal viewer in me. Get these TV execs to see the "golden age" light.


message 23: by Richard (new)

Richard Derus I'll get SOMEone to listen to me yet. TV, maybe not. But this is a Brave New World, and for just a minute guys like me with ideas are going to be able to get some stuff done. I hope!


Marvin Yes I'm really like the Lovecraft bunch. While Lovecraft is more horror than fantasy, I think Smith leans more to the fantastic elements.

I have some old paperbacks and some Arkham House editions of Smith's works. That five volume collection sounds exciting. Details, please!


Stephen Marvin wrote: "I have some old paperbacks and some Arkham House editions of Smith's works. That five volume collection sounds exciting. Details, please! ..."

Here's a link to my review of Volume 1 which describes the series and the stories in that volume
End of the Story review

What I really like about the series is that the stories are presented in chronological order (rather than by theme) so you get to see the evolution of his work. Plus, it means as good as Volume 1 was, the next four should be even better.


MrsJoseph *grouchy* I laughed so hard during this review I thought my boss was going to come over here! LOL!

This is the BEST. Gosh I hated this book. I hated everything you mentioned in this book...

...with the addition of really, really, seriously hated the rape - and (rant on) I could give a less than half a damn regarding his regret. You regret having cookies...you don't regret raping someone. Cause you just don't do it. /rant

Love the review Stephen!


Stephen Thanks, MrsJ, I am glad you got a kick out of it. I also love your comment. I didn't have quite the rage towards this that you did but I completely agree with your point.

I now feel a little guilty for giving this 2 stars.


MrsJoseph *grouchy* Stephen wrote: "Thanks, MrsJ, I am glad you got a kick out of it. I also love your comment. I didn't have quite the rage towards this that you did but I completely agree with your point.

I now feel a little gui..."


;) It's cool! Don't feel guilty! You just liked it more than I did.


It's at this point I should admit that a guy I was dating talked me into reading this book. I broke up with him shortly after reading said book. I'm just sayin' ;-)


message 29: by Stephen (last edited Feb 22, 2012 01:34PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Stephen Uh....uh...*scrambles furiously to think of how to keep MrsJ from defriending him*

I hate Thomas Covenant...he is a vile scumbag. He's a cockroach. He's worse than the white stuff that collects in the corner of your mouth when you're thirsty. He's infected toe jam.

*waits patiently for approval*


MrsJoseph *grouchy* Stephen wrote: "Uh....uh...*scrambles furiously to think of how to keep MrsJ from defriending him*

I hate Thomas Covenant...he is a vile scumbag. He's a cockroach. He's worse than the white stuff that collects ..."


:-D

Stephen, I could never defriend you! Who'd great reviews would I read then? Plus, strangely enough, my husband is named Stephen. He likes you. ;-)


Stephen *whew* I shall do my best to continue to entertain. Tell your hubby he's got a great name and I appreciate the support. The Stephens must stick together against the more numerous Stevens.


message 32: by Leon (new) - rated it 4 stars

Leon Aldrich For the longest time these chronicles were my "goto" novels to reread every 18-36 months. With the coming of the internet, GoodReads and Stephen, there are far too many original works to plow through.

It is time for me to reread both Thomas Covenant & Shannara and adjusts reviews accordingly.


Tyrone Leon wrote: "For the longest time these chronicles were my "goto" novels to reread every 18-36 months. With the coming of the internet, GoodReads and Stephen, there are far too many original works to plow throu..."

Although i enjoyed the Shannara books as an adolescent i'm not sure they would stand up to scrutiny to my more experienced palate. I re-read Thomas Covenant recently and although a little dated they stand up well to my memory of them.


Michael O. It took me my third read to get through this book, probably back in 8th grade, but I did wind up liking the series quite a bit. I actually liked the second trilogy better than the first, and the final book is a wonderful culmination.

I was a bit surprised that all three of Donaldson's series I picked up prominently involved rape, which eventually caused me to stop reading him. I haven't picked him up again to see if my more adult self would enjoy him.


drowningmermaid I love it. Thomas the Unbelievable. Thomas the Occasional Doubter. Thomas who Inexplicably Whines about Having a Dream Wherein He is an Epic Savior of the World.

I had a lot of your same problems with this book. Thomas' unlikeability comes off not as misanthropy or black villainy, but more as puzzling doucheness-- that appears and disappears for no stated reason and with no consistent level of "badness." The language use starts off strong in the first couple of chapters, but devolves into peculiar metaphors-- not strictly awful metaphors, just meandering, bizarre ones. The world seemed both cliche-- with it's centuries-past Cataclysm, Terry Brooks-esque edibles/dippy 'childlike' women, Tolkienish naming conventions-- and underdeveloped, without a lot of strong uniqueness.

Personally, I wanted to beat the side characters whenever they opened their mouths about "the Land." Which they talk about more often than a Southern Baptist convention mentions the Saving Power of Djeezus.

I might have liked the giants better if there was more to Foamchaser's "high tenor" voice and long stories about rainbows. (Children are, indeed, rare among the giants.)


message 36: by Andy (new)

Andy Potter This was the most aggravating of chronicles for me the first time round. The second time I picked it up and started reading and could not put it down. It takes time to love something like this.


Royden Irvine A little too clever for your own good - missed the point I'm afraid!


message 38: by Alex (new) - added it

Alex Richardson Very funny review. I've been considering reading this series, though I've heard a lot of bad things. However, I've heard that this is a series that really needs to be judged by the first three books (the first three were apparently written as one book), and that redemption turns out to be a key theme. In my mind, once you rape someone, it's going to be damn hard for you to be redeemed in my mind... I'm honestly a bit interested to see if he can pull it off.


MrsJoseph *grouchy* Alex wrote: "Very funny review. I've been considering reading this series, though I've heard a lot of bad things. However, I've heard that this is a series that really needs to be judged by the first three bo..."

Yeah.

There's no way to redeem yourself if you are a rapist.

No way.

Except to never rape to begin with.


Tyrone I don't think that Donaldson tries to redeem him and the effects of that one act resonate throughout all of the initial 6 books.


message 41: by Alex (new) - added it

Alex Richardson @MrsJoseph

On broader strokes, I agree. Rape is probably the most pointless and easily one of the worst crimes that one can commit. That said, when I say "redemption", I'm not talking about wanting to invite the guy to a dinner party, or seeing him become a saint. I'm more thinking of a Jaime Lannister type of "redemption". I imagine that guys as much of a douche as Thomas, at least at the beginning; surely throwing a defenseless child out of a window ranks up there with rape, but even so, he looks like he's on the road to becoming a less despicable human being.

But like I said, I haven't read the book, so I can't comment on this particular case.


message 42: by MrsJoseph *grouchy* (last edited Nov 28, 2012 09:07AM) (new)

MrsJoseph *grouchy* Alex wrote: "@MrsJoseph

On broader strokes, I agree. Rape is probably the most pointless and easily one of the worst crimes that one can commit. That said, when I say "redemption", I'm not talking about wanting to invite the guy to a dinner party, or seeing him become a saint. I'm more thinking of a Jaime Lannister type of "redemption". I imagine that guys as much of a douche as Thomas, at least at the beginning; surely throwing a defenseless child out of a window ranks up there with rape, but even so, he looks like he's on the road to becoming a less despicable human being.

But like I said, I haven't read the book, so I can't comment on this particular case. "


I just don't think it is possible. It's not like he was confused or something. He knew what he was doing, knew she was crying and hurt, knew that he was betraying a trust. But he did it anyway. For power. For spite and for anger and to destroy someone good. To destroy someone who had his best interests at heart.

There is no redemption from that. Which is why I could not finish the series. There is no way - in my mind - that someone can be "redeemed" from that type of personality disorder.

Of course, we haven't even descended in to Donandson's issues with women and why he must include so much rape. And why must a rapist be redeemed in the first place. Am I supposed to forget what damage was done to that poor young lady? That now Covenant is a "hero?"

Let me see...would people be as willing to watch him find "redemption" if he had grabbed some poor young MALE teen and raped him?


message 43: by Alex (last edited Nov 28, 2012 09:36AM) (new) - added it

Alex Richardson I like to think it would be no different if it was a male, though it's not something you see that often. To be perfectly honest, people in general tend to be much less sympathetic towards male rape; it's sometimes even portrayed as comedic. Terrible that it is, of course, but it definitely reflects the mindset of a portion of the population

Honestly, I kind of have the same issue with explicit rape scenes in many fantasy novels. It seems, with that sort of thing, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't; yes, it's a terrible thing that unfortunately happens, yet authors who portray it can quite easily come off as somewhat creepy, particularly if they sidetrack the story enough to dwell on the rape. I like George R.R. Martin, but I honestly feel his explicit sex scenes detract from the story at times.

On the other hand, you have authors who might acknowledge it happens, but choose to not show it. Then, you get accusations that the author is a prude, that the author is flinching from real world issues, that the author is okay with showing violence but not sex, blah blah. Can't really win, it seems.


message 44: by Pedro (new)

Pedro So you are basically saying that because he doesn't believe he should just sit down and wait until he wakes up? I don't think this was the greatest novel ever (I was 14 when I read it) but this is not a review I can take seriously
...


message 45: by Pedro (new)

Pedro The main point was missed from the review. He knew the land was real, he just tries to disregard the new reality. His disbelief is the front he puts on...mainly because of the rape. He thinks if he can convince himself he is dreaming he doesn't have to face his crime. The fact he is driven to redeem himself and treat the world as real is a paradox as it is also engendered by the rape. It's very cleverly done. I would recommend it though as the world created is very much more than covenant. The land is a very rich complex place populated by larger than life characters with as much depth as Covenant himself. The story of the giants in particular is quite harrowing.


message 46: by Marie (new)

Marie Entertaining review that still articulated your points well. Loved the pictures. :)


drowningmermaid @Peter

I think your interpretation would make for a much better story, but I really didn't see that articulated in the book. He doesn't believe that the world is real before, during, and after the rape. My problem with the rape wasn't so much that it was a rape, but that it seemed to effect NOTHING. No one acted any differently toward him, even when they knew the truth about him.


message 48: by Greg (new) - rated it 5 stars

Greg D'Agostino covenant is coming from a mindset of having everything torn from him, his wife, his child, any sense of human community and compassion. he is literally outcast and unclean. he cannot feel anything in his extreme ties, and yet he can still overwhelmingly feel desire and loneliness. and yet there is no surcease from that desire and loneliness. and to top it off, in order to survive, he must give complete attention to the reality of his disease, any sort of hope or fantasy about health is quite literally a danger to his life.

now put him in a land where he is taunted with the promise of health, with redemption, and it is enough to precipitate a very real mental crisis: do I believe this apparent fantasy and abdicate everything I believe that has kept me alive? in that mind set of anguish, it is not hard to see where he could believe that the inhabitants of the land are trying to drive him insane.

one cannot apply standard modes of behavior to someone in such extremis. and the eventual,working out of such a situation is one of the fines pieces of literature I've read.


MrsJoseph *grouchy* Greg wrote: "one cannot apply standard modes of behavior to someone in such extremis. and the eventual,working out of such a situation is one of the fines pieces of literature I've read."

So, you're saying that it was ok for him to rape the poor girl...he was rebelling??

Covenant is a whiny rapist.


message 50: by Tyrone (last edited May 01, 2013 02:15PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Tyrone Covenant is a whiny rapist. The fact that he is fairly despicable and does an abhorrent act doesn't make the novels poor. It just means many had a strong reaction to the character/act that made a lot of people less likely to tolerate the story and follow it through to conclusion.

Just because i enjoyed the novels doesn't make me a rape apologist. It just means i had a different reaction that made me want to see how Donaldson was going to get his character out of the very dark hole he put him in almost at the outset. You won't hear me justifying the act...but for me the characters actions and faults did make the story more compelling, not less.


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