aaa Howto Bet Baccarat - Casino Garbling be ig Create a facebook profile Sign up for free today! netplaces » Casino Gambling Buy THE EVERYTHING CASINO GAMBLING BOOK Baccarat How to Bet Baccarat by Meg Blaine Schneider Even the betting rules are simple in baccarat, You only have three choices: betting that the banker's hand will win, that the player's hand will win, or that the two hands will tie. You have to place your bet before the cards are dealt, and each bet has its advantages and disedvantages. The house edge on baccarat is very slight for the first two betting choices — less than 1,2 percent on banker bets and about 1.35 percent on player bets. ‘At American casinos, the house usually takes a commission of 5 percent on winning banker bets, You don't have to pay this commission after each round; instead, the dealer keeps track of what each player owes the house and collects either at the end of the shoe or when the player is ready to leave the table. Banker's Hand ‘Awinning bet on the banker's hand pays even money, but the house usually charges a 5 percent commission on each winning banker's bet, This means that if you win $100 at the baccarat table, you'll have to give the dealer $5 before you leave. The probability of the banker's hand winning is about 50.7 percent. Even with the 5 percent commission, you're likely to lose less money betting on the banker than betting on the player. If the house commission is 6 percent or higher, you're better off betting on the player's hand Player's Hand The player's hand also is an even-money bet. The difference is that the house rarely, if ever, charges a commission on winning player bets. The player's hand is slightly more likely than the banker's hand to lose. If the commission on winning banker bets is 5 percent or less, your bankroll will last longer betting on the banker's hand. Tie Bet ‘The tie bet in baccarat is similar to the insurance bet at blackjack Why should I bet on the banker, even — widely considered a sucker bet because the house edge is so high. Statistically speaking, ties will happen less than once in every ten hands. Tie bets usually pay 8 to 1, which is a good payout, But the house advantage on this bet is at least 14 percent, astronomical compared with the tiny edges on banker and player bets. That's why the experts are more or less unanimous in steering you away fromit. ‘The Scorecard Around the baccarat tables at many casinos, you'll find players busily keeping track of the outcome of each hand, scrutinizing the results for a pattern on which to base their next bet. Casinos with the commission? In 100 hands of baccarat, the probability of the player's hand winning is about 49.3 percent, versus the banker's 50,7 percent, If you bet $100 over those 100 hands, you probably would lose $1.30 by betting on the player every time, but you would only lose $1.17, even after paying the 5 percent commission, if you bet on the banker every time, actually encourage this, providing penails and scorecards for the players’ convenience, And some dichard players might tell you that they have accurately predicted the outcome of a baccarat hand by filling out the scorecard and discerning a pattem in the number of hands won by the player or the banker. Analyzing baccarat hands like this can be amusing, but itis absolutely worthless as a predictive activity. Unlike computer-controlled games, where a flaw in the random number generation program can lead to repetitive and predictable patterns in the outcomes of the game, baccarat is a simple game of chance, like roulette or a coin toss. What happens in one hand has no bearing on what will happen in the next. Card Counting \wonstelaces.comicasine-aamtling baccarat o-be-baccarabim 12aaa Howto Bet Baccarat - Casino Garbling You may have read the last sentence in the previous section and said to yourself, "Wait a minute, Baccarat is a carc game, and when cards are played and taken out of the deck, that changes the odds for the next hand,” That's true, But the change in the odds is infinitesimal, for a number of reasons. First, the maximum number of cards played in any one hand is six, and in an eight-deck shoe, six cards Is only 1.5 percent of all available cards. Second, already= played cards are usually shuffled back into the shoe long before the last card of the shoe is dealt, So as a practical matter, the cards that are dealt in one hand of baccarat have virtually no impact on the odds for the next hand. Another reason card-counting techniques don’t work well in baccarat is that the betting rules are so rigid. In blackjack, you can alter your betting strategy in certain situations, so keeping track of the cards makes sense. But in baccarat, you have only three betting choices and you have to make your choice before the cards are dealt, so you don't have any opportunity to change your bet midway through the hand. ‘That said, some sharp mathematical minds have figured out that you might be able to give yourself a very slight advantage by keeping track of the 4s and 6s that are played. As 4s leave the deck, the banker bet becomes slightly more advantageous for the gambler. As 6s leave the deck, the player bet becomes slightly more advantageous, But even the minds that discovered this minute variation in the odds warn that the probability factors in baccarat never change significantly. ‘Winning and Losing Streaks Baccarat requires no decision-making or skill from the player, and bets have to be placed before cards are dealt, so there isn't any strategy to maximize your payout per hand, The best you can do in this game is to try to take advantage of the occasional streaks that seem to show up In every game of chance, commonly called “following the shoe.” All the term means is that if the player wins one hand, you bet on the player for the next hand. If the banker wins one hand, you bet an the banker for the next hand. By followin: streak when it appears. 1e shoe, you stay on the right of a winning Whether you want to adjust your betting pattern while you follow the shoe depends on the size of your bankroll and how long you want to make your bankroll last. You can use the following betting pattern independent of or in conjunction with following the shoe. This is a conservative betting strategy that involves increasing your wager after ‘a winning bet, but only for the four hands following that win, This gives you the opportunity to maximize your winnings without unduly jeopardizing your bankroll, Here's how it works, based on a $5 wager per hand: You bet $5 on the hand * Ifyou win, you bet $15 on the next hand, ‘Ifyou lose this hand, you bet $5 on the next hand. If you win, you bet $20. # Ifyou lose the next hand, you revert to your $5 bet. If you win, your next bet is $25. Ifyou lose the next hand, you revert to your $5 bet. If you win, your next bet is $30, No matter the outcome of the $30 hand, you revert to your $5 b Unlike some more well-known betting systems, this strategy has a built-in fail-safe to ensure you aren't wiped out on a single bet. First, you never increase your bet after losing hands, and second, if you keep winning, you repeat the cycle after five rounds rather than increasing your bet indefinitely. This is an important factor in sound wagering, because, as always, the house edge — slight as it is — will catch up with you eventually. \wonstelaces.comicasine-aamtling baccarat o-be-baccarabim 22apa Hono Play Baccarat- Casino Gambling netplaces » Casino Gambling Buy THE EVERYTHING CASINO GAMBLING BOOK Baccarat How to Play Baccarat by meg Flaine Schneider Baccarat and mini-baccarat are played with multiple card decks, usually six or eight, In regular baccarat, the dealer shuffles the cards and places them in the shoe, and the players take turns dealing the hands from the shoe. There are three dealers at a full table. The one in the middle is the caller, responsible for announcing the total of each hand and determining third-card draws according to the prescribed rules, The dealers on either end of the kidney-shaped table are responsible for keeping track of players' wins and losses and commissions owed on winning banker bets. In mini-baccarat, one dealer handles all these responsibilities in addition to dealing the cards. Table Layout Aregular baccarat table layout has numbered slots for up to fourteen players to place bets, as well as corresponding slots to keep track of the house commission each player owes, Above the player numbers on the table layout Is @ row for betting on the player's hand, and above that is a row for betting on the banker's hand, Tie bets are placed in the topmost row on the layout. Minisbaccarat table layouts are even simpler, using marked circles to differentiate between player and banker bets; another series of Girdes or 2 row for tie bets Is located above the player and banker Grdes, The mini-baccarat table also has designated areas for the player's cards and the banker's cards. Regular baccarat has seats for fourteen players, but the table layout corresponding to each player's bet is numbered 1 through 12, then 14 and 45. 4. Atypical baccerat table layout, Note there is no "13" on the The number 13 is omitted to avoid layout, superstkions of bad luck. 4 Atypical mini-baccarat table layout. The marked areas for player, banker, and the bets may vary in design, Dealer Dealer Beginning Play Whether the dealeris a casino employee or a player, the person who deals the cards plays the role of banker.” Two hands of two cards each are dealt, one for the “player” and one for the “banker.” Bets are made on whether the banker or the player will win the hand or whether they will tie, Other than betting on which hang will win, the player has no choices to wn.netaaces.conVcasine-camtina/bacearavhowto-clawbaccaratim waaa Howto Play Baccarat- Casino Gareling make in baccarat, The rules of the game require the player's hand to stand if the first two cards equal 6 or more. If the first two cards equal 0 to 5, the player's hand gets one more card. Chip Tray Commission Boxes = Seoe feseto Ifthe player's hand takes a third card, the banker's hand will always draw if its first two cards total 0, 1, or 2, If its first two cards total 7, 8, or 9, the bank hand will always stand. For banker's hands totaling 3, 4, 5, or 6, the decision about drawing a third card depends on what the player's third card is. For example, when the banker's first two cards total 3, the banker takes a card unless the player's third card Is an 8, If the banker's frst two cards total 6, the banker hits only if the player's third card is a 6 or 7. ‘The dealer doesn't have any choices to make, either. Ifthe player's first two cards total 6 or higher, the banker's, hand draws a third card only if ts first two cards total 5 or lower. Otherwise, the banker's hand stands at two cards. These rules may sound complicated, but you don't have to worry about studying them in order to play. The dealer makes all decisions regarding the player's and banker's hands and even calls out the totals, so all you have to do is place your bet. \wontelaces.comicasine-qamblinalbaccarathow c-slay-baccarat him 22azar Posts within game of acarat Help Join now logout game of baccarat Join Now © Forum © Members © Stats Recent Posts Page 1-2 1305 ca 2 months, 3 weeks ago To those requesting access to this forum. by proplayer This site is for active players, itis not a site for those wanting to learn about the game, I don't get paid, nor charge tuition fees. I also dislike lurkers, so the first thing you have to do is introduce yourself, this is mandatory, it is to weed out the lurkers and bogus ID's. Ifyou dor't introduce yourself, you will be swiflly removed, You will also need to share your own playing experiences, thoughts, whatever, if you want to read similar from other users, again to weed out the fiee-loaders. What I have leamt over the years, is that being the most prominent poster on internet forums, counts for very little, 99% of people I share a game with don't bother with internet forums, Gambling in the main is a rather isolated occupation, I'm not really interested in those that continually only post a whole bunch of “thanks for sharing” type responses, itis leaders not followers that post substance. There is a message notification in the top right hand comer on this page, ignoring requests to contribute and you will be denied access: Membership numbers is of no significance to me, there are other web-sites were you can lurk without any pressure to contribute. Email verification is required. If you apply for access, then do check your email cat 5 months, 4 weeks ago probaccaratefra composts! aoazar Posts within game of acarat Re: Welcome to probaccarat.lefora.com by proplayer privileged 105 1263 bac’ tak private 48 784 trip reports 28 272 dont be shy! other casino games 15 143, RWCA archives 14 64 general 199 1822 bac' talk general 116 1272 casino tales 22 194 shuffie time a 38 helo & welcomes 6 86 MM library: 20 32 [reference only] cca 7 months, 1 week ago by proplayer Welcome to ProBaccarat forum, operated by a regular player of the game of Baccarat. This is a private board for active players, itis not a site to Jeam about the game (this is not schoo), nor does it offer any particular winning system (they don't exist). It does however offer strategies used, money ‘management techniques that work and invaluable gaming insights as successfully deployed by active players. This site contains no ‘bull, no "have you thought of", Untried untested, unrealistic walle. No shill, nothing is te, there exists other for sale, does not exist solely for traffic hits for advertising revenue. It is a non-lurking “endless wafile sites on the internet", we do not try and compete. Ifyou are serious about the game of Baccarat, an active player and are willing to openly contribute with fike minded players, then apply for access. Email verification is required. probaccaratefra composts! 20azar Posts within game of acarat Regards Proplayer aka égalité ca 9 months, 2 weeks ago Re: Awareness. by proplayer You should be able to EDIT or delete your own posts. So you can fix it up, then delete the oops post above... Did enjoy reading them! 9 months, 2 weeks ago 1 Trigger ba: meth by proplayer Reading Max's SCOL stats reminded me so much of'a 4COL trigger based method which I had a lot of success with back in June of 2009, 21 winning sessions 3 losing sessions, tuming 40u into 1027 units profit during the process. I tested this over approx 150 shoes and must have played a similar amount in those 24 sessions. So [have a decent enough handle on how it performs and the pit fill. So I guess the buming question is, why did I ditch it? Pl explain that later. The bet triggers ran as thus (it's fair to mention here, that any perceived 16/1 v's 32/I odds don't apply, odds are only applicable to the actual bets you place); Akso all % figures are "expected as tested against my test data" they are never a guarantee, each hand remains 50-50 proposition. Where there are two sets of % figures, I did run two tests, crude and later a more througher test, I have included both sets of figures. So recording a shoe using 4COL's ao (next bet) Bet B 55% ~ 62% Ifyou lose the bet ie BPBP P, have another bite 61% probaccaratefra composts! aoazar Posts within game of acarat Ifyou lose two bets, ic BPBP PP have another bite 60% P www Bet B 63% Ifyou lose the bet ic PBBP P, have another bite 62% Ifyou lose two bets, ie PBBP PP have another bite 63% wow Bet B 57% Ifyou lose the bet ic PPBBP P, have another bite 55% Ifyou lose two bets, ie PBB PP have another bite 61% These were the three main "trend based" trigger bets. also produced some bet P options to attempt to balanced things up; However the problems, the bigger the test data, the more everything will lean more towards bet the bank, these were generally "nibble" bets, always at lu. wuvo Bet P 62% Ifyou lose the bet ic BPPB B, have another bite 58% B ww Bet P 54% ~ 63% Ifyou lose the bet ie BBPP B, have another bite 57% (seems obvious that in most cases, it seems better to bet against the continuance of pair of two's, either way) Odd-ball, always better to bet B during chops probaccaratefra composts! 0azar Posts within game of acarat Bet B 55% Ifyou lose the bet ie PBPB P, have another bite 46% ~ 52% While recording a shoe via columns of 4, afier every third column you draw a virtical line after the third. column, so you have a block of 12 results. Bet 12 hand UnBalanced, 3L stop, 53% Also, when you notice 6 losses in a row if you were betting "opposite" OR the "s 6L Opposite 58%, 6L "same as" 52% ime as", now take this bet, Any "row" (left to right) producing BBBB or PPPP bet "AS4" 3L stop 54%, 2L stop 57% Any finally any "column" producing BBBB OR PPPP bet "AS" 3L stop ‘When I first played this, [ used dual Labby’s, however the more I won, the less I did this, letting strings first get out of control, then I think, I ditched the Labby altogether and reverted to the Fibonacci. Few issues with the entire concept. Lets say you get something like; yo (best performing trigger) Followed by PP BP BP PP You have just lost 3 bets (trigger didn’t work), now another trigger has kicked in PPPP, and the current PS streak continues, you hit even more losses. Allit would take after that mess is; PP~~PP and now you are in real trouble T guess the more shoes played, the more likely I was going to start hitting those shoes from hell, ie P long streak / dominated shoes. | also had to rank some triggers, so I would know which way to bet, ifthere was a conflict, Bet "AS" or bet "UnBalanced" being one example, Then I just tried to make it stronger by waiting for on-paper losses first. Le probaccaratefra composts! sitoazar Posts within game of acarat BP P If was trying to recover $200, this tells me you are using a 4 step pre-progression, I would consider stretching ita bit further. When I used a $50 base, I ran it like this; (using DBL only) $50-$50-$50-$50-$50 then $250 - $400 - $650 I don't recall making a 21 unit bet, but you need balls to play this way (defintely in the hit and run camp). It also introduces a lot of mental pressure, unless of course you have a unlimited bankroll. In my opinion there are better way to play, meaning less risk, less mental pressure, kess mental fatigue than any of these options, the progression stage only has 3 or 4 steps, a disaster waiting to happen. For example, if you balk at the thought of betting 21 units at $50 = $1050, then you could consider lowering the base bet. The progression st ige needs to be at the very least twice the size of the base bet. So for a $50 base bet; $50-$50-$50-$50 > $100 fibonacci needing to win 2 units, but really there is not enough depth in the pre~ stage. $50-$50-$50-$50-$50 > a bit messy $50-$50-$50-$50-$50-$50 > 3u using a $100 fibo, if, you have thousands of dollars stake, go for Lu using a $250 fibonacci, The bigger the base bet, the more money you need for the back-end, For the doubters, nay-sayers, the stuck in the mould non-thinkers. I've yet to lose playing this way this year, I havent used it a hell of a lot, only about 40~50 shoes (LOL), plus a hell ofa lot of testing, I usually make close to or more than 100% of my buyein. It can be a slow and grinding process (believe me), which is why 15 min shoes are ideal. The effort required is beyond expected normal human endurance (j/k). ca 9 months, 3 weeks ago Re: E-Star by proplayer Ok, to the crux of the matter, how does it all work at the tables? Let me stress something before I forget, you must be adequately capitalized for the progression stage. So maybe drop down to the table minimum or wait until you have increased your bankroll. I realise the original concept has mulitple stages, but I never used or considered building any 3rd stage, i'you can wear the costs of such, you are probably moving into the realms of becoming near unbeatable, but lets leave that aside for another time. The longer the pre-progression stage expect to tread water a lot longer, you could play entire shoes and nover hit the progression stage, as I often do using a pre-stage of 8 chips. Great if you want to play for comps only, the profit may be non-existent if you are only flat betting. You don’t win and you don’t lose. probaccaratefra composts! smoazar Posts win gare of baccarat However it can get boring, but that’s up to the individuals personality and what their goals are. We all know you won't come out ahead in this game by flat betting, not only will the 5% grind into your wins, it is extremely unlikely that you will score a greater than 50% hit ratio shoe after shoe. So you could consider including a PARLAY option into your pre-progression stage. Especially if you are going to take things to the extreme such as using a 20 x 5 unit chip base, then switching to $25 unit progression stage Obviously the fewer units you have to win in the progression stage, the quicker you would expect to meet this goal and retum to the pre-progression stage. So if you went ffom 20 x 5 to 10 x 10, expect to be in the progression stage a lot longer than if'you switched to 4 x 25. You need to find a balance that suits you. Ifyou want to play 5 and 10 dollar / pound units, then reduce the pre-progression stage so that the progression unit requirement is not that great. Something along the lines of, 5-5-5-5-5 = 3uat 10 or 5-5: or 5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5 = 4uat 10 5-5 = 3uat 10 The shorter the pre-progression stage, the more quickly it will become depleted if you include a lot of Parlays So you have the best of both worlds, scope for positive progressions plus the back-end (recovery) is also mapped out. Thave found a 7 and 8 pre-stage more suitable for my own playing style However the extended pre-stage progressions now offer other possibilities, especially so in terms of mechanical play, Let’s say you decide to play with a sizable pre-progression stage 10, 20 or 40 units (you have plenty of time of your hands) . You could if you wanted to, play FTL or DBL exclusively. Because you would not expect either of those bet selections to differ from the other by a factor of 20 or 40, seeing such would be very rare in my opinion. So again, you make no money, play all day and NEVER hit the progression stage, Ideal for the gambling junkies, retiree’s or recovery option for the positive progression players. The stats tell us, either of those bet selections are expected to even out within a reasonable number of shoes. So for example using 20 times pre-progression base. You would not expect to experience a swing greater than 20 of chops to streaks in any given third of any shoe. The longest chop sequence I saw was 22, a once ina life time event. And so what if you do strike it, you have the progression stage already mapped out. Can you spot the opportunities here? No need to guess this way or that way, if you don’t want to. When I first played this a few years back, I played DBL only along with as mentioned a 7 pre-stage. I view what I am doing now as an extension of my early iteration. I’ve had people play my method on alternatively tables to the one I’ve been sat at, and the feedback was at the time, the 7 chip pre-stage was one the best methods they have seen, There are benefits to getting other to play for you, first off most other players have more patience than me, and if multiple tables are available, you can increase the profitability for the same time probaccaratefra composts! saoazar Posts within game of acarat period, if you have faith in what your are doing. can trust the person you are using, while maintain a low base unit bet. As of today, I’m playing a 8 pre-stage and combining FTL/DBL, it’s just that I see a lot of long 2’s on the six deck shoes. In fact the six deck shoes seem to defy all expected streak distribution, so you have to rely on pattern capturing. Another thing you have to watch out for, is the slow deplete of the pre-progression, especially if using something like FTL or DBL exclusively, as their respective weaknesses are common. cca 9 months, 3 weeks ago E-Star by proplayer The brilliantly conceived STAR and its many derivatives. na nut-shell is a delayed Fibonacci. First off, this is my understanding of Star, or more importantly the way I implemented it at the tables. Flat bet five times, then when you have lost these five units, bet five times this amount using a Fibonacci progression once you hit the progression stage.. Therefore it would run something like this, $25-$25-$25-$25-$25- then $125 - $200 - $325 ete Or $10-$10-$10-$10-$10- then $50 then either $100 if using $50 units, or $75 ifusing $25 units. Starting at level 1 and level 2 of the Fibonacci. Consisting ofa pre-progression and progression stage. So what are our options to stretch this a litle, squeezing a litle more leeway where making wrong decisions is not costing a great deal. A stress fiee approach to playing when in the pre-stage Rather than trying to recoup the five lost bets in one bet, work the units backs. Starting with a base bet of $10 (for US and Australian playing conditions), the table min in Auckland NZ is $15. $10-$10-$10-$10-$10-$10-$10 = $70 now you change to playing $25 unit s with a goal target of three, once cleared will produce a $5 profit, probaccaratefra composts! 190azar Posts within game of acarat Jess commissions, any half price payouts (punto 2000) are ignored. The same approach can be taken for the $25 min tables as they are in Canada, $25-$25-$25-$25-$25-$25 then 3 units @ $50 or $25-$25-$25-$25-$25-$25-$25-$25 then dunits at @ $50 or 2 units @ $10 0 Now kets consider UK playing conditions, most tables are £5 min, fantastic for adding depth to STAR. £5-£5-£5-£5-£5-£5-£5 for a total of £70, you have many ways to play y our progression stage depending on your comfort zone. Switch to £10 units, the goal target would be 4 Switch to $25 units, the goal target would be 3 However you can expand all options further. Let's take the UK tables. £5-£5-£5-£5-£5-£5-£5-£5-£5-£5 = 10 step pre-progression stage = £50 £SLS-£5-€5-£5-£5-£5-£5-£5-£5-£5-L5-£5-£5-£5-£5-£5-£5-£5-£5 = 20 step pre-progression stage = £100 There is no need to go from playing £5 units to £100 units, ‘You simply can set a goal of 4 x £25 or 2 x £50. Itall depends on the players bankroll, what they feel comfortable be ‘ting. Ifyou can't see yourself betting $ x £50, then don’t play £50 units. The same applies to the $10 minimum tables. $10-$10-$10-$10-$10-$10-$10-$10-$10-S10 = $100 you can cut this off anywhere you like, you can even construct it so the progression stage shows a little profit to compensate for the 5% Banker commission penalty. You have the option of switching to $25, $50 or $100 units. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see how it would be possible to construct a 40 step pre-progression stage if you wanted to. Obviously this is easier on the 5 minimum tables, the progression stage doesn’t not have to cost the earth. Incase you are wondering, no I haven’t forgotten the option of, probaccaratefra composts! 2040sears Posts thin game et beccarat switching to a Labouchere for the back end. This would ease some of the pressure playing the bigger unit size, is more manipulative but comes with a higher win ratio. Lets say $25 minimum tables, and you have decided to use an 8 stage pre-progression stage for a total cost of $200, and you have decided to use $50 unit value for the progression stage, as you don’t fancy betting stacks of blacks. You eventually lose those 8 green chips, Using a normal Fibonacci you would be expect to make a first recovery bet of $50, then $100 th en $150, $250, $400, $650 ete. Good job you decided to use $50 units, as betting blacks the bets cou ld get quite high. Rather than do all this, you are going to take the Labby approach. ‘You need to recoup $200 so you construct a string consisting of, 1-I-I-1 (each 1 = $50), ok if you are thinking, I need to bet $100 th en $150, $200 given a series of losses. Well not really, you can build a bit of cushion into it Let’s bet $50, ifyou win the string will go. IL-l Ifyou lose the string goes; 1eL-L-1-1 You decide when you have stretehed your progression stage enough, then commence to play as you would like a normal Labby. The same principals apply to the lower value amounts. $10-$10-$10-$10-$10-$10-$10-§10-§10-S10 then construct a Labby string of 1-1-1-1 (1-$25) Engage your Labby tactics as you please. [Edited by jolmo on 04-Aug-08 06:43] ca 9 months, 3 weeks ago by proplayer BBBB (even run) probaccaratefra composts! 280azar Posts within game of acarat BBBBB (odd rn) ‘Wins can occur either; BBBB or BBBB BBBBB or BBBBB All depends what transpired prior, which determines how you hit a "even or odd" run, the Zz has been around for decades. Yes it can cover the majority of pattems, except 50% of chops, MM IMO needs to be aggressive and deep, no flat or delayed progressions. The Killer method is a different animal, which I am certain you make up as you play along To simplify ifthe 2nd line hole gap is continually reasonably populated, then consider the Zz, once the 2nd line “opens-up'", ie big gaps, then tread wearily, because the shoe is producing a lot of chops, you might get caught on the wrong side of them with the aggressive MM you are using. Getting any switch right or wrong is 50-50 affair, yet mentally tasking with the later. ca 9 months, 3 weeks ago by proplayer Just wanted to share few snippets fiom last night; Table opened just after 9pm. Thankfilly there was one other regular player, which puts me in the position of not having to bet every hand, So I start offrecording the shoe using columns of 3 and runing 3 bet selection methods. One is "dual BP", yep have tested this, resolves to a 50% strike rate, nothing will overcome the 30% mark, anyway 50% is more than enough, Next bet selection is "Unbalanced", same applies 50%, and one other propriety bet selection, Anyway, first shoe I win 8 bet and lose 9 bets and make 8 units ‘Next shoe "more of the same", Win 11 bets and lose 10, now I'm about 20u up, thus far looking good, Here is something I consider quite remarkable; (not the number of tes) The first shoe started; BB PPPTT B PPP B PTPP probaccaratefra composts! 80azar Posts within game of acarat BBT PT. B Pp BBB PP BBBBT P Br PT BBBIT P BTTBBB PT B P BI PPPP B 14 Ties in a 6 deck game (wow), However the 2nd shoe started; BB PPPT B PPPT B Pp BBBB Disregarding the Ties, the first 11 hands of both shoes are identical, I found that really amazing, so much, that after 7 hands, I started betting against it's continuance, odds of 2047 to 1. In fact the first 6 shoes all started with a double banker? Shoe #3, things tur to shit, the fellow player as quit at +£500, we left me in the position of having to bet every hand if | want to play. So given the good performance of Zz the previous night, that's what I'm running with Biggest loss series 3 bets, (so much for 4Liar, more on that shortly), now I'm about 40 units up. More bets phiced, more profit per shoe, your odds don't change, still a 50-50 outcome. Shoe #4, f&*ked me. TB PP B probaccaratefra composts! 280azar ete wthin gar cf baccarat P B P (dam 5 losses in a row) BBB (decided to switch and won the Ist B bet) P B PP BBBBBB PTIPP B PPPPT BBTBTB P B PP (after that those streaks, I was expecting chops, switched and lost the switch) B (gear change to double original unit value and proceeded to lose next 4 bets PTPP Yes I was literally fuming, only player at the table, I've just lost 9 bets on the bounce and am expected to bet another f&"kin' hand to keep the game going. I walked away from the table and told the dealer to shufile up. They will reshuffle ifnobody is at the table for 10 mins. ‘Next shoe, only player at the table, nibble with table minimum for the Ist hand, quickly recall every shoe started with B, I don't subscribe to continuance in this game, so bet P and lost, and lost the next bet and the one after that, So given the 9 losing bets from the prior shoe, I'm now looking at 12 losses in a row, and feeling pretty £&*ked, At this stage I'm about 100units in the hole, that includes the prior 40u profit Okay, I need to tum this shit around, I need to pull 20~30 units per shoe, only one way I know to do that, which is "bet every hand" and hope you don't hit the opposite of what you are doin’ to often. Having lost faith in ZZ, so I'm thinking given the last choppy-ish shoe, maybe this one will fiir better, run with FLD. Well that wasn't a good idea, Here is how the show ran; BB PPP B P BB P B PP (getting f&ked by chops, switch to opposite and the Player doubled, yes you can imaging the feeling) B (yeah f8*kin' rubbish, so I'm in even more trouble. Yeah I could quit and give the bastards back all the profit obtained over the last few weeks. So I increased my chip value for the 3rd time, I'm now running two progressions, a higher one for what I call optimal bets, those bets I would have placed had other players been at the tables "triggers", and a lower one to keep the shoe in progress. Anything pulled from the 2nd progression will off-set the goal target of the first) PPP BB P probaccaratefra composts! 80sears Posts thin gare of baccarat BB PP BBBBB PP BBBBBBB PPPP BB PP (nice little run of streaks) B P BBBBBB PPP P BB Not sure exactly my standing after that shoe, but an original goal target (includes profit margin), had gone from -61u to -94u, Here is the thing about bankroll, adequate bankroll gives you options. Example your xx Units in the hole, sometimes less than 5 wins can clear that draw-down if you are repaired to increase your betting amount five or ten fold, so long as your comfortable in doing so, While I am not, sometimes you have no choice if you want to avoid defeat. FINALLY, FINALLY shoe #5 other punters turn up for a game. I decided that 7/1 odds of any 3 column method simple wasn't good enough for the level 'm playing at, so I reverted to playing with 15/1 odds, any 4 Colum method I could think of invent on the fly, whatever So I ran with, the Double Zz and kept my ass cheeks rather tight. Yes it is good, yes just lke everything else it can bite you. Incidentally I've been using a Fibonacci all-night. So I can stil use "12 hand UnBalanced", still use my propriety method after "on-paper' losses, Won 21 bets, 15 lost, including a short sequence LLLW, LLLW, LLLWW (with a Fibo) Aggggrrrh Next shoe, Won 20, Lost 22, including 3 consecutive balanced grids, no-way the next grid would be balanced, however {%*kin six deck games, ran out of hands. ‘The thing is; over the next S shoes, Dbl Zz did not lose once per betting sequence. The betting sequence consists of 4 hands, I've played this way many years ago, I know how can perform, 4 lair! Those decent enough shoes allowed me to recoup and step back down to my starting chip size. Now I'm chasing "more" profit for all my time and effort, not to mention buyin. Good timing too, because Shoe#9 hit me with 9 Dbl Zz losses on the bounce (LOL), feeling tired at this stage, I tried and managed to burst through the 9L using a Fibonacci and a 5Su winning bet. This is not something I would normally do, but having been playing for so long, only a few hours to go before the joint closes, I simply decided to "go for it" Finally 10th shoe, and nice profit round up. Decided to return running with Zz, and heavy duty Fibo starting at 2u, my goal is "just" another 12 units after tax. probaccaratefra composts! 280azar Posts within game of acarat Here is the shoe; wo UO BB (wone ny bet up to that Ist B) ‘What do you make of the shoe thus far? Choppy right? PPPP What about now? Have chops finished?, do we now expect streaks? B P B P (lost 4 bets in a row, those final 12 units had ballooned to -71) B (won 34u bet), B (won 8u bet, regessed the Fibo) P (lost Su bet) ‘Where are the streaks? What is the shoe doing now? BBBBBB PPPPP BBBBB PPPPPP (ahh there are the streaks!!! Not sure why but I changed and subsquently won all those FLD bets) BB P B (guessed that right as well, mission accomplished) PP B (no-bet the last 2 hands) Here is another thing, there is one senior dealer who I get along with really well. He comp's me well, we talk about a lot of things gambling related. He is heavily into customer service. As soon as he saw me quitting his whole demeanour changed, he semi-slammed the pinks on the table. So I'm thinking, "yeah, now your showing your true colours", Friendly as anything, maybe they expect you to lose eventually and are just another addicted gambler. Well, I try my damn hardest to disappoint, cos' I hate losing, I am no fan of casinos or casino staff, but while they exist, "stick it to them! as best as you can. Left the building with 80 its profit to go along with the 29u Fri night. Yeah I changed my style more times than I change my underwear! I adapted to various playing conditions (Solo v's other players) So what!!! probaccaratefra composts! 280azar Posts within game of acarat My advice for those that want it Have as many options which you can call upon as possible Always maintain composure when it comes to MM, no matter how bad it gets MM is king, the more you have, the greater number of options, so long as your in control Consider talking every system you have ever played / tried / tested, and waiting for that to lose x number of times, then switch to it Chow Last edited by Egalite; 02-20-2012 at 0332 PM. Reason: typo corrections a 9 months, 3 weeks ago Re: Perils of getting over paid in Nevada by shuttle The strangest experience that happened at a bac table I was playing was when all the players had bet banker, after 6 bankers in a row, and player won 9-8. There was a big groan from all the players followed by deadly silence when the dealer paid everyone out as ifbanker had won. The dealer even put up banker on the scoreboard. None of us could believe this had happened and the dealer had to wait ages for anyone to place a bet. Interestingly we all bet banker again and won. | filly expected that at some stage in the shoe the pit supervisor would come over and rectify the mistake but nothing happened. cat 9 months, 3 weeks ago "The most surprising thing about humanity is man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices his money to recuperate his health. Then he is so anxious about his future he does not enjoy the present. The result being he does not live in the present or the future, and then he dies having never really lived," coat 9 months, 3 weeks ago Re: Playing each side individually by proplayer probaccaratefra composts! 280azar Posts within game of acarat Let's take a closer examination of shoe #6 above, note* this mode of trending each side individually bears no reflection on "real trending" each side individually it is far too mechanical!! Shoe #6 B PPP BBBL PPPP W BL PL BBBB L. PPP L BBBBB W PL BL PPL BBBL PL BL PW BBBBL PW BL PW BW PPL BW PL BBL PW BL PPL So lets break out the loss string; LW LLLLW LLLLLLW LW LWW LW LLW LL (8W's vs 18L's), 8 pre-stage E-STAR can handle that mun. Can it get any rougher than that? Do you want to bring the 3rd line into play? How about running two progressions, one for each side, stop after 4L. as the trend has not continued for each side twice cca 9 months, 3 weeks ago Playing each side ually by proplayer probaccaratefra composts! itoazar Posts within game of acarat Yesterday before heading to the casino, | had a read of the system “Baccarat Pattern Recognition” BPR. It reminded me a lot of GR8’s method, basically playing the trend of each side, ifthe Player has previously produced a sing, then next time it appears bet against it, ifthe Banker has doubled then bet the double, think you get the gist of it. BPR has some dressing to cover all bases, but like all commercial systems, merely flufto pad things out. Anyway last night after dropping on the first shoe, I tracked how betting each side individually would have fared, it would have produced; LLWLWLLWWWLWLWWLWL (much better than what I was doing). So for the 2nd shoe I decided to switeh tact, albeit I did things different from what GR8 has posted on this board, basically I was playing the 2nd line only, I paid no attention to if the previous side went to three or “new tops” ete, all I was interested in was if it doubled or not, I also was playing AS4, so the LW patterns are slightly skewed. Here is shoe #2 PPP BBBBB (no bet yet, as I needed a reference) P BB P B P BBB PP BB PPPP BBBBB P B PPPP BB P BB P BBBB P BBB PP Pulled "back" 15 units fom that shoe. Shoe #3 B pp BB P B probaccaratefra composts!azar Posts within game of acarat BBBB PPPPP B P BB PPP BBB LLLWLWLLWLWLLLLWLWWLWWWLLWLLLLWWW I should note here, my MM was a “regressing” Fibonacci, after briefly reviewing the WL pattems, I reckoned T could handle them. Shoe #4 produced; WLWLLWWLLLLWLLLWWWLLWLWLLWLLLLWLW Shoe #5 WWWLWLLWLWWLLLLLLWL (additional bets were a cause for the 6L) ‘What I was seeing was issues trying to close the Fibonacci, I was chasing so flat betting was not on my radar at this moment in time. Shoe #6 B PPP BBB PPPP B P BBBB PPP probaccaratefra composts! somosears Posts thin game et beccarat BBBBB P B PP (I busted my Fibonacci here losing a 21u bet, and abandoned my current mode of play) BBB For the final two shoes I was playing some “binary option” at a higher chip level and walked out +15 units. However that is not the point of this post. 1 could plainly see that betting each side individually does have it merits (going by my very limited analysis). 1 could easily see that by the loss strings, more than manageable if you were shallow betting, such as GR8’s progression, personally after a negative result afier 7 bets, I personally would look for a faster resolve, but that’s just me, Like I say if the banker had for example streaked to three over the last two showings, all I was interested in was the double, I didn’t care about the 3rd line ete. ‘What gets me, is this method of approach, looks PERF the concept of winning on long chops, wining on quad tw not too shabby, not too shabby at al “T for a progression such as “SURE WIN”, | liked s, triple repeating threes etc. The bet selection is Itis a shame GR8 hasn't posted any shoes, because I would sure like to see some of his worst performing shoes to see if | could handle them. To close here is Shoe #7 for any Decision Before Last bufis; (it would have busted my E-Star playing DBL) PP BB PP B PP BB PP B PP probaccaratefra composts! sumosears Posts thin gare of baccarat BB P (wasn’t quick enough to recognise that symmetrical pattern to act upon it, otherwise this shoe is nuts) BBB PP B PP BBBB P BBB A bit rough for me, lost my first 5 bets, but still managed to pull 4 units from it No doubt GR8 will be a dab hand at going virtual, parlays, betting the 3rd line, however I was under pressure at the time, however all I was concerned with was loss strings, and from initial inspection and short trail, it seemed pretty reasonable, thanks to the person who sent me BPR Buyin ‘too much”, profit 15 units. Footnote* What the most frequent patterns in Baccarat? Chops 21's 2s So long as they repeat "at least once", it is enough for most negative progressions Last edited by Egalite; 05-02-2012 at 11:56 AM. cc 9 months, 3 weeks ago Re: Hp johnson (Fritz Werntgen/Perkins Labby) by proplayer probaccaratefra composts! samoazar Posts within game of acarat are you referring to the modified labby in your example? Isn't it a good idea to spread out the losses into the abby? The contents of that post are not all mine, rather somebody I communicated with back in 04. Regarding you question, itis a fine balancing act, First you have your own comfort zone, what is the biggest bet size you are comfortable placing, if you don't win the next bet size!! I personally don't like betting double digits when using a Labby. Once I have digits of 6 or more in any string, ifyou are 100% on top of your game, you should be seriously thinking of introducing some defensive measures, such as splitting, or betting the LHS ete, Secondly you want to keep the required win ratio as close as possible to the offen quoted 33%, or at the very least no more than 40%, Once you go above that mark you are relying on too much luck, kinda like playing on a "hope and a pray’ ‘When you first sit down to play, your initial Labby is fine, however once it gets into strife (LCD against a streaky shoe?), what I dislike (detesthate) about the Labby, is that after LL any third win does not equal the prior two lost bets and you end up slowly but surely haemorrhaging units if things stay that way. My suggestion would be, once a string or strings start getting out of contol, total everything up, round up and switch to the Fibonacci, maybe using a gear change, all dependant on bankroll, unless of course you haven't mn and do have a cast-iron stomach!!! cca 9 months, 3 weeks ago Re: Hp johnson (Fritz Werntgen/Perkins Labby) by proplayer Fritz Werntgen Fritz Wemtgen, the inventor of that ,never lost progressive tax system, came from the correct prerequisite to not to increase the use after loss, but rather after profit, therefore with the money of the bank to progressieren. Dangerous only the balanced numerical orders can become the player at the same time, that be gradually consume capital, It is not the progressive tax system in the profit, that could cause a contingent loss of the capital, but rather in any case the absence of opportunities in which the sentence increase to the train comes. The of concept well known in player circle that ,ntever lost progressive tax system" no goodness label is therefore, but rather a species concept that Wemtgen in the thirties years published. As a sentence technology, it used at the same time that ,Labouchére", the American Abstreichprogression. This progressive tax system, also ,Labby" named, was chosen before the first world war at the Englishmen in ‘Monte-Carlo very. It was held long for infilible, is in any case very dangerous for bank as well as player. For the bank ifit a courageous and capital strong Roulette uses ~player in connection with a security system restricting the Ecart, for whom players of simple systems because the Ecarts can demand extraordinarily high sentences, Today one speaks in this sentence technology generally about the (American) Abstreich progression why also the so-called Johnson progressive tax system belongs. In the principle, one prescribes probaccaratefra composts! samosears Posts thin gare of baccarat some more or less Jong squadrons of theoretical loss sentences, that it counts to delete. Or one writes down written two sentence figures, for example 1 - 1, alvays among one another. The uppermost and lowest painted number are added together, what yields always the new sentence. ‘The sentence loses, the last loss figure is added again with the first as a new sentence. It wins, both added figures and the sentence are painted. Yet loss figures are available, abgestrichenen figure results always from the addition of the first and last not yet the sentence until all losses are deleted. Karl Alexander recognized the disadvantage of that “U. P* very clearly: ,all previous attempts in the field of the never lost progressive tax systems show another conscience disadvantage up: in longer time balanced game progress losses can emerge, that can be overtaken as a result of ts gradually reached considerable height itself by a considerable upswing with the sentence increase only under high stress of the nerve power again, One would have to find added will can therefore a way to reach first of alla slighter plus, out of that then again, Secondly a possibility must be created to catch the losses at least in part. Even the direct use on. black and red would have to be formed can ertragreich. One could designate such a sentence increase as that absolute progressive tax system" because it makes the player independent ofa certain march, therefore additional records saves and calculations. It would lead only through that its driving force characterizing to the profit, without that it would be essential, which color in the individual case would be set. But unfortunately existed are opened one ideal increase natured until today not yet; the research in this direction all gates ‘A pious, however unrealizable wish how seems me. And very certainly the incorrect way. Helmut Schubert took up this question of that ,absolute progressive tax system much later once again because ako it arrived at the conviction, that there is no regularity, that allows us it to win in a game with constant use. ‘Therefore remains us only the progressive tax system". An absolute progressive tax system welfare noted should only and alone based on one more or less refined variations of the use height win, indifferently where one sets. Naturally also Schubert challenges that there can be such a progressive tax system, We picture yet the basic principle of all progressive tax systems: one tried the height of the uses running so to change that the loss coups fill on lower sentences, than the profit coups. In this simple sentence, already the paradox of nominally absolute progressive tax system sticks would need." one to leave out only the lower sentences equally entirely and to play only to the moment of the high sentences (4. h. after hts) masse equal, and this would be yes already again a march, therefore a contradiction in itself That it nevertheless people should give, who regularly play and win on duration with a progressive tax system, only can lie, contained be must that in its game ,somewhere a hidden masse-equal-superiority", Consequently also Schubert to the compelling and correct end comes that one only can win, ifn the game somewhere a yot so slight same sentence superiority concealed is“. Because itis obviously only arrive most system players, to have invented very negligibly superior marches, is held it for psychological reasons for meaningful and desirable to use a progressive tax system, Such a progressive tax system will have to allow for however also the possibilty of places of beginning, Decisively for its reliability, the prerequisite does not remain consumes, that the sum of the places all obiained gross profits again, but rather that a profitable net excess remains. (We describe such an example within the dozen-chance.) Yet back to that ,never lost progressive tax system" Fritz Wemtgen describes follows the being of that .never lost progressive tax system how: ln the recognition that in the Roulette in large game section between red and black anniherend the balance results, predominates in ltler sections of the Ecart. Only few understood it to evaluate this a long time well known fact to its advantage and to obtain therewith large profits, .. The problem to play the losses with litle and the profits with large sentences, remains unsolved. Well however itis possibke to play the large probaccaratefra composts! samoazar Posts within game of acarat Gewinnecarts with large and the Verlustecarts with little sentences. Before Wemigen had decided itself to publish this game type, examined it after all directions there so that no one loses at the same time its money. Confirm also the tests of its colleagues, almost excluded is that ,a risk“ «the resuits of cable envoy and however cable envoy coups are so extraordinarily well that they would be disputed perhaps, ifT cited it. Moreover the game is to be formed very multilaterally. One can limit the plus parties according to capital and inctination and has either little, but sometimes very high profit parties, or many, but correspondingly litter. The Ecart, that previously in use of (usual) progressive tax systems only little units brought in, but finally many units cost, brings us after the new game type with security success, It concerns here a fact, whose check is readily possible each. But very so effortlessly fll one the large profits also here not. Patience and consequence are required, ifalso less than in the game masse-égale."* during therefore the player, who has to indicate in the loss progressiert, in the beginning of success, because he will knock probably hardly immediately in the first session on one ,places”, has the player who increases in the profit to invest first of all an amount of piece before he encounters on a plus-Ecart favorable for i. Through this behaviour, it forces so to speak the bank into the roll of a player, that increases in the loss. The bank is forced herewith to make and to play through akways higher sentences. The player however can stop in one it favourably seeming moment, what cannot the bank. That is already an important point to Gunsten of the player. In the profit progressive tax system, all series of minuses in the beginning of loss bring, But also a sequence of Intermittenzen costs the player respectively a unit. The little Bcarts to its Gunsten bring no profit. Yet as soon as a wave of phis accumulation reaches the limit, that the player sat down, he comes to profit. So, how the Parolispieler a limit for the profit, Le. for the drawing-off of the mass sits down, also we must set us in the increase in the profit a profit limit. One played each plus-series to the first minus, one would have no advantage, for the profits would be consumed yes through the series of minuses and the Intermittenzen again. Only if we come with higher sentences of a plus-series on the other, is given an advantage. In this case, we have as it were more and to indicate longer plus-series." than a proof of its thesis leads Wemtgen a Ter-Serie on: sucha series of 7 plus would bring ita profit of 28 pieces. The constellation 4 plus, 1 minus, 4 plus, that after its conviction (as a figure) exactly so offen occurs, like a 7er-Serie, would bring it the same succes Through following examples, it makes that clear! Ts) IV. + LFL41+1424+242424343 b34344ba-d bas 5-54 2tS TOFS TAL OT TFT+6+74 9-84 7464748410410 +13 +28 +26 + 30437 *) This example would have to have correctly 8 plus-places. How one s s, the result is not in the unbroken plus sequence as favourable as in the average in the plus sequences interrupted by minus. In order to pull utiity out ofthis recognition, Wemtgen recommends not to prepare the profit limit to low. For only of a side on the other, one arrives quickly at high sentences and reaches correspondingly earlier the stuck goal. With the above-mentioned example, Wemntgen clearly wants to make firther that one will knock more often on such a plis accumulation, that brings more profit, than on a long series. Wemtgens tests at hand of Permanenzen of the game bank Monte-Carlo out ofan enlire season yielded that in use of the increase probaccaratefra composts! ssoazar Posts within game of acarat recommended by it in the profit on minus about 1000 plus only 500 came. The limit for the profit had been on 1000 units fixed. A full Auslotung of the maximal profit chances yielded that in the mentioned game section 4 parties would have been able to furnish more than 20000 units, a party 60000 units profit. In addition it cites enables a Permanenzbeispiel of 36 coups, that brings 17 pieces of profit in use of the American Abstreichprogression in the loss bnur, and that in use of the increase in the profit an excess of 1179 pieces. But not enough there with. Wemtgen describes also another strengthening of this superiority through detection of the two coup and through often dividing of the measures. Fritz Wemigen arrives so at the firm conviction that one will arrive in a set limit of plus 100 very much faster at a profit of 100 pieces than to a just as high Joss. . However like highly we our limit also place, must be larger in the long run the sum of the profits than that of the losses. We have here therefore the absolute certainty, to win.“ Itis not confessed me how fir it arrive the Fritz Werntgen highly respected in specialty circle and grants been is, to harvest out of these correct recognitions themselves of fruits Roulette Lexicon (K.V. Haller), unlosable progression, pages 444-448 Fritz Werntgen, who developed the "unlosable progression’, had based this idea on the correct assumption that itis a lot safer to use an "up as you win" progression rather then a negative progression. With this positive progression you use only the money of the casino in your efforts to win big. dangerous in this concept will only be extremely long runs (over 100 spins) in where the balance between the 2 even chances is not, disturbed (say RBRBRBRB, or RRBBRRBB). In this case your bankroll will slowly but for sure diminish gradually. Its not the progressions that will danger your bankroll, but the lack of opportunity’s to get into the progression, This is also the reason that he gave it the name unlosable progression, because the progression itself isn't the cause of losses ‘As example for this he uses the American Labouchere betting, a cancellation progression. This progression, also called "Labby" was used a lot by the English in Monte Carlo before world war I. For a long time this progression was thought of as The Holy Grail, anyway it was dangerous for the cas wellas for players. For the casino, when a player with a huge bankroll combines it with one of the available systems that narrows the Ecard (spread of standard deviation), for the players when (the majority) they play simple systems, because the Ecards will cause raising of their bets out of proportions. Nowadays the Labouchere is known as the American cancellation progression, too which the so called Johnson progression. belongs as well. Inthe Labouchere the units are noted in a vertical row and the first and last one summated to get the next bet. A lost bet will be noted under the row in case ofa loss, and in case of a win the 2 figures are cancelled, ‘This continues till all figures are cancelled. (note Perkin: this Labouchere progression is important for this system. because it will be used as the positive progression against the casino, so in other words things have tumed around: now itis the casino trying to win back your money with the Labouchere, and you try to let the casino bust till you reach your win level) Karl Alexander knew the disadvantage of the U.P. (unlosable progression): When the balance between lost and win bets is not disturbed for a long period of time (so no streaks) the probaccaratefra composts! seoazar Posts within game of acarat bankroll will slowly be consumed, so that even after we encounter a chance for the positive progression, it will take a lot of nerves in order to get out of the hole again, ‘Therefore a way has to be found to reach first a small plus, before we can attack again. On top of this a way has to be found to compensate for the losses. A solution for this would be defined as The Holy Grail progression (absolute progression). As everybody knows tillnow such a progression doesn't exist, and itis very doubtful if someone will ever succeed in finding one, Yet there is a small group of people that play on a regular basis even chances and get almost every time a plus resuit playing a progression. The only explanation for this has to be that within their bet selection there must be a hidden concept that change the odds in their favours. The definition for a confident progression is that over the long run the win results are higher then the inevitable busts that are encountered with every progression so that there is a net plus result. (we will give an example of such a progression in the Dozen- chance section).(Perkin: itis notin this thread, but I assume you can find it in the book: The roulette Lexicon from K.V Haller). Back to the U.P (Unlosable Progression): Fritz Wemtgen explains the essence of his progression as follows: In the knowledge that over a long session of consequent spins in even chances balance will be reached (within the limits of the standard deviation), the ecards (big standard deviations) rule in the small parts of a long session. Before Wemtgen decided to make his system known to the public, he studied extensively the outcomes in all directions, to be sure that nobody wil lose money using this system, Also other investigators, affer publication came after extensive analysis of his system to the conclusion that any risks are almost impossible: THE RESULTS OF MANY THOUSANDS AND HUNDRED THOUSANDS OF SESSIONS ARE SO EXTREMELY WELL THAT IF BEEN PUBLISHED NOBODY WOULD BELIEVE THE RESULTS. Besides the system leaves a lot of room for personal adaptations (tweaks) as also level of unit play, win- targets and bankroll. You can prefer to win many "small sessions as well as wait for the inevitable to come few huge winning opportunities. (Like we are always sure that with negative progressions the bust will come as well in due time). This is a sure fact that everyone can check by himself after leaning this progression. But the large winnings are not coming that easy as well; one will need a lot of patience and discipline to reach the final goal, although less then players who win when they need to reach the balance between two even chances (50-50). Like a phyer who uses a negative progression will probably have positive results in the begining, probably will not encounter the bustin the first session, a player playing the positive progression has to invest first a sum of units before the favourite ecards will resul in the winnings. In this way the U.P. player forces the casino in the role of the player using the negative progression. the casino will be forced to chase the winnings of the player with all the time higher stakes and is aso forced to play on. the player however can choose anytime the moment of stopping and cash the winnings. this is a big advantage of the player against the casino. I will give a more understandable translation; itis really not that difficult, when you get the point oft. Like I said before actually it is a kind of Labouchere cancellation against the house. Kind a reverse Labouchere: The link Kelly gave (Thanks for it!!) is an example of how powerfil this system can be, but as stated by Frankly, itis a rare occurring incident that itis allowing you to make 11450 units from only 60 invested units. probaccaratefra composts! sto