A Giant Project: Update #5

I am behind on the updates for my 1964 Topps Giants set.  I need to catch up a bit over the next few weeks.  For tonight, I am just going to post one of the cards from the set that I have added to my collection in the two months since I last updated this project.  

It's a pretty important card.  

Needless to say, I was pretty excited about adding the Mickey Mantle card from the set.  There are 60 cards in the Topps Giants set and a handful of the cards are going to take up the majority of time and money to track down.  This Mantle was one of those cards.  

There are so many Topps Giants cards that talk about players' Minor League careers on the back of the card.  Even the players who had been around for a while in 1964.  Mantle just gets a long write-up about all his Postseason accomplishments.  Wish a few more of the card backs in this set had followed this formula.  Pick something the player did well and talk about it on the card.  

I did alright here.  

Now, about that Koufax.  

Updated checklist.  22 out of the 60 cards.  

1 Gary Peters
2 Ken Johnson
3 Sandy Koufax SP
4 Bob Bailey
5 Milt Pappas
6 Ron Hunt
7 Whitey Ford
8 Roy McMillan
9 Rocky Colavito
10 Jim Bunning
11 Roberto Clemente
12 Al Kaline
13 Nellie Fox
14 Tony Gonzalez
15 Jim Gentile
16 Dean Chance
17 Dick Ellsworth
18 Jim Fregosi
19 Dick Groat
20 Chuck Hinton
21 Elston Howard
22 Dick Farrell
23 Albie Pearson
24 Frank Howard
25 Mickey Mantle
26 Joe Torre
27 Ed Brinkman
28 Bob Friend SP
29 Frank Robinson
30 Bill Freehan
31 Warren Spahn
32 Camilo Pascual
33 Pete Ward
34 Jim Maloney
35 Dave Wickersham
36 Johnny Callison
37 Juan Marichal
38 Harmon Killebrew
39 Luis Aparicio
40 Dick Radatz
41 Bob Gibson
42 Dick Stuart SP
43 Tommy Davis
44 Tony Oliva
45 Wayne Causey SP
46 Max Alvis
47 Galen Cisco SP
48 Carl Yastrzemski
49 Hank Aaron
50 Brooks Robinson
51 Willie Mays SP
52 Billy Williams
53 Juan Pizarro
54 Leon Wagner
55 Orlando Cepeda
56 Vada Pinson
57 Ken Boyer
58 Ron Santo
59 Johnny Romano
60 Bill Skowron SP

My Top 50 On Cardboard- #20 Old Guys- Part 1

If you've done your math on all of these posts I have made during my brief time blogging, that all focus on the thirty year window I have been collecting cards, then you'd know that my collection began sometime during the late summer or fall of 1983.  Cards and collecting have changed greatly over the past thirty years.  Some of the changes have been good, while others have been not so good.  I am not going to get into a specific list of items that I feel have been positive or negative this evening, instead I am going to focus solely on one item that I feel has been a positive for the industry no matter the type of collector you are.

Sometime during the mid 90s there was an obvious and significant boom the number of card manufacturers and brands on the market.  This trend as a whole had a definite negative impact on the hobby as a whole.  Look no further than the fact that only two cards companies, Topps and Upper Deck, still have the lights on in their office buildings.  Within all of those card releases from all of those different card brands came a nice new little niche: New cards for old players.  Sets such as Upper Deck Legends, Topps Archives, Donruss Classics, and others produced fabulous lines of older players from yesteryear and offered collectors a chance at relics and autographs of players who had been retired for years.

Growing up a Cardinals fan in suburban St. Louis my life as a baseball fan has been pretty nice.  I obviously grew up collecting cards, but I was also fortunate enough to live in where my father was a pretty big fan of the game too.  When I was younger we would always go to a few Cardinals games every summer and I would get to see some of my favorite Cardinals in action: Ozzie Smith, Vince Coleman, Willie McGee, John Tudor, Jack Clark, amongst others.  Along the way my father would always tell me great stories about games he attended when he was my age living in North St. Louis within walking distance of old Busch Stadium.

I heard plenty about the Cardinals players from his generation starting with Stan Musial and covering the team through the sixties with tales about Bob Gibson, Lou Brock, Mike Shannon, Roger Maris, and others.  To this day, I still get the occasional story about a game my dad saw as a kid.  I have heard the Don Larsen perfect game story several times, but still love it every time I hear about how he walked home from school to get lunch and the World Series game was on the radio....

Hearing about the players that played before my time peaked my interest in collecting their cards.  As a kid I obviously could not afford most of the cool vintage cards of Musial and other great players from past generations.  Even as I got older, the vintage cards could still be out of reach at times.  Luckily, the niche card set focusing on the older generations of players helped me, and other collectors, pick up cards of older players for our modern collections.

Over the next two days I am going to show off some of the cool cards out there for collectors to pick up which feature older players.  Tonight's focus will strictly be on autographs.  Tomorrow's post will feature relic and base set cards.  Fair warning, these posts are Cardinals heavy.

Combo Autographs:

1994 Upper Deck Mickey Mantle/Ken Griffey Jr. Dual Autograph 

This is one of the most iconic cards of the past thirty years and I own it with a grain of salt.  I really just wanted to own a Mickey Mantle autograph.  Nothing more.  I ended up with a Ken Griffey Jr. autograph attached to the side of it.  While some collectors love the combo autograph, I just do not always get the connection.  I get the connection that Griffey and Mantle were somewhat similar players, but there were also some difference there too.  In my opinion, combo autographs work when the combination of players is obvious.  Throw Maddux and Glavine on a the same card and have them sign it and it's a no-brianer.  Give me Mantle and Maris.  Cool.  Mantle and Griffey.  Ehh.  I know there are plenty of people who'd love to own a Mantle/Griffey auto, so let me give you a better example of the ridiculousness that can happen when you pair modern players with older players.

2004 SP Ozzie Smith/Matt Bush Dual Autograph 

Do we actually know why Upper Deck lost their baseball card license?  I might speculate that cards like this Ozzie Smith and Matt Bush autograph combination may have contributed.  With the Griffey he was at least an established player by the time that cards was produced.  Putting a prospect with a Hall of Famer is a sure sign of future disaster.  Never a good idea.  Never.

If you want a solid combination autograph think about these two factors: same team, same era.  Here's a good example of a really good multiple signature card:

2004 Upper Deck Legends Timeless Teams Cardinals Autographs 

All the signatures on this card belong to Cardinals.  Check.  All the signatures on this card belong to members of players from the mid to late 60s Cardinals.  Check.  Add in the fact that this trio won a pair of World Series rings and three National League pennants and you've got yourself a winner of an autographed card.

Single Autographs
Obviously this is going to be my favorite category featured on this blog post.  I love collecting autographed cards and have made a point to pick up a card, or two or three, of as many Hall of Fame players as possible.  Beyond the obvious Hall of Fame targets it's also fun to find older retired players with cool autographs too.  By older, I could mean anyone from George Kell to Jose Oquendo.  Not always older.  My main criteria for finding Hall of Fame autographs on cards is simple: certified and on-card.

2004 Topps World Series Highlights Stan Musial Autograph

Most players who sign regularly can be found on-card with a slight premium on some of the cards.  Of course, there are others you can only find on stickers and other players whom you just end up with and say good enough...Tony Perez on a sticker.  Sounds good.

2003 Donruss Signature Tony Perez Autograph 

I cannot emphasize the certified part enough.  There is plenty of money involved in autographs and baseball cards.  If you are going to invest money in finding the autograph of a player like Stan Musial or Mickey Mantle why not spend the extra dollars to ensure that the card is the real deal?  Sure, that sounds a little bit snobby, but I just like to be smart with the money I spend on cards.  I'd rather have less money and know something is the real deal than a little more money and an autograph that's not worth the card it's signed on.

Not to say I am completely against on-card autographs of former players, I am not, but just be careful.  If I get the autograph myself then I am cool with the card.  If I get the card from a highly trusted source than I am cool.  Never Ebay.  Ever.  Here are two on-card autographs in my collection that were acquired in person:

2000 Fleer Impact Daryl Kile Autograph 

  This Darryl Kile autograph was a card that I got signed in-person before he died in 2002.  I got tickets to a corporate event at Busch Stadium from my summer job during college and had the chance to meet several Cardinals players and get them to sign autographs before the game.  Kile signed a ball and a card for me.  While I have seen other autographs like mine out on the secondary market, I have not bought them because I did not see Darryl Kile sign the items.  I saw him sign this card.  Not for sale or for trade.  It stays.

1991 Fleer Todd Zeile Autograph 

This Todd Zeile card was an in-person card that was signed for a trusted source of mine.  While I did not see Todd Zeile sign the card I have little reason to believe that anyone would want to forge a Todd Zeile autograph and then sell it in the card shop outside of St. Louis for a few bucks.  This Zeile card is a perfect example of a dilemma faced by team collectors.  What do you do when a player has no certified autographs?  This is a great way to add them to your collection.  In this case, my source is one of my favorite card stores outside of St. Louis.  The guy has tons of items like this that he picks up from the Cardinals Winter Warm Up or from other very reliable collectors.  He's allowed me to add at least a dozen good autographs of 80s and 90s Cardinals to my collection.

The Never Popular Felt Baseball Card Set

Every once in awhile I have a hard time deciding whether a card set is genius or a complete flop.  Sounds funny, but sometimes I think there is a very thin line between the two.  Take for example the 2001 Upper Deck Legends of New York set.  I initially passed on buying anything from this product when it was first released since it just focuses on four teams which I do not particularly care for.  One of my local card shops had a box of this product sitting on its shelf were it sat for a long time.  At some point on some weekend several years after 2001 I talked the shop owner down on price and figured I might get lucky with something cool.  Luckily, I pulled a cool autograph.  

2001 Upper Deck Legends of New York Reggie Jackson Bat/Autograph 

While I was really happy to pull an autograph of Mr. October I was also really intrigued by the base set of cards which featured felt.  The stuff on pool tables and the lining of your glasses case on a baseball card.  Who would have thunk of that?  Obviously, somebody at Upper Deck had this idea and put it into motion with the Legends of New York set.  At first I thought the cards looked cool and I assembled a set.  There are four basic card designs in the set featuring cards of the four New York franchises: Yankees, Mets, Dodgers, and Giants.  

2001 Upper Deck Legends of New York Ron Darling

The card above shows the most basic design from the card set which is divided equally into quarters between the four teams.  The felt part of this card is the team logo on the right side of the card.  If you cannot tell from the initial glance at the card, the felt is actually shedding.  Like a dog, or a cat.  Which is really the lowlight to this set.  Have you ever considered vacuuming out a box of baseball cards?  

2001 Upper Deck Legends of New York Mickey Mantle 

I have never actually vacuumed out the box of cards with my Legends of New York set, but there is excess felt floating around the inside of the box.  The cards, like the Mantle above, with the felt square cut around the team logo seem to shed a little less than the basic logo card, but they still are not perfect. There is also a set of cards recognizing the teams Championships, or Banner Years, which has a felt script writing with the teams name on the front of the card.  Another big shedder.  

2001 Upper Deck Legends of New York Duke Snider

If you look around the world of baseball cards you will notice that there has not been another felt set of baseball cards since Upper Deck issued the Legends of New York set in 2001.  Card companies have dabbled with other materials, like Topps and their silk cards, but nothing in felt.  After looking back over this set I fully understand why card companies have not duplicated this design or concept since this product.  

Sounds like a flop, so how do they also border on genius?  

In working on my reorganization project, this was one of the first sets that I pulled and sorted.  Frankly, I was astonished at the response I received from my efforts to trade a lot of doubles.  There is something a small cult following with this set and there are collectors that will go all out in order to complete a sale or trade.  Not lukewarm, not those are cool looking let me think about it.  More like, let me email you my want list from the set and lets fill some holes.  If you search out single cards from the set on Ebay most list for more than $1 per card, with the Mantles and Sniders fetching several dollars.  Complete sets can actually settle in the $50 range.  Not bad for a $70 box of cards considering you are likely to get either a bat or autograph card too.  

When I starting pulling doubles and triples out of my sets I expected there to effort and interest from collectors on my extras from sets like the 2001 Topps Heritage set, but the Legends of New York?  I understand that the set features four teams with good collecting bases, but was shocked to trade off one lot of doubles and sell another lot and make as much as I did.  

So, what ever comes out of my collection in way of doubles and multiples is being redirected into good things, so the Legends of New York, minus Reggie-he stays, netted me three pretty nice cards:  

2013 Bowman Inception George Springer Jersey/Autograph 

2013 Bowman Inception Shelby Miller Autograph 

2013 Topps Tribute World Baseball Classic Ben Zobrist Autograph

Not a bad haul for a set and lot of duplicates from a felt baseball card set.  I am not completely sold on the World Baseball Classic cards, but the other two cards are solid adds.  Not that I am down on Zobrist, but I am not a huge fan of the actual WBC event, barely watched it this year.  The Miller autograph is on card, while the Springer is not, but are players that I like having in my collection.    

Bad Signatures?

I have made it to my first break in the school year and am excited about spending a little time the next few weeks at home with my cards.  In the wake of getting report cards out to students and setting up my room for next quarter I caught a glimpse of an article written by Hall of Famer Mike Schmidt.  The former Phillie wrote the article in response to a case of balls he had signed by current Phillies players for a charity auction he was helping with.

If you read the article, Schmidt had problems reading the autographs of the current Phillie players and talked about the pride and passion he took in signing autographs for fans.  Kind of an interesting take when you think about how many times some players must be asked to sign.  So, I took a little bit of time this afternoon looked through my autographs and have picked out some of my favorites and least favorites and sorted them into some groups.  Let's take a look:

John Hancock?  No, Brad Fullmer.

There are a few players who still obviously take time and pride in their signatures.  These are my favorite three:

1999 SP Signature Brad Fullmer Autograph

I pulled this card out of a pack of SP Signature back at the Cape Girardeau Mall and was incredibly irked that I pulled this card out of a per pack autograph product.  A week later the card grew on me and it stayed in my collection.  Today, it has become the benchmark by which all autographs are judged.  Honestly, as a teacher I wish I could write that neat and would probably guess that a Brad Fullmer autograph line would include a sign that would stress patience and quality over quantity.  

2001 Topps Finest Terrence Long Autograph

This was another early favorite autograph.  I came for the left-handed version of the Terry Steinbach batting helmet, but was hooked by this cool signature.  Five star all the way.

2005 Upper Deck Signature Ken Griffey Jr. Decades Autograph

I have only seen Ken Griffey Jr. sign one in person autograph in my whole life and it took a long time as far as signatures go.  The man has signed autographs in every Upper Deck product for the past fifteen years and is now signing for Topps.  If you go on Ebay or COMC you have a wide variety of autographs to choose from over that time period.  What's incredible is that Griffey has not changed his autograph very much over that time.  Quite impressive in my book and a really good signature to boot.

Other nominees include: Drew Storen, Andre Dawson,  Harmon Killebrew, Jacque Jones, Jim Edmonds, Tony Gwynn, Victor Martinez,  Andres Galarraga, and Al Gionfriddo


Classics

These aren't the best or cleanest signatures, but I would recognize them anywhere.  I am sure many other collectors are in the same boat.

2000 SPX Chipper Jones Autograph

Chipper Jones has a nice signature and lots of certified autographs out on the market.  There are also a lot of autopen autograph floating around, so if you were going to invest in a Chipper 'graph I would spend the extra money to buy one that is certified.  I think his signature is a notch down from the group above, but is still an easily recognized autograph.  

1994 Upper Deck Mickey Mantle/Ken Griffey Jr. Dual Autograph

Classic Griffey autograph, but I also really like Mantle's autograph as well.  There is something about the M's that's really distinct.  Always been a fan of this signature.   

2004 Leaf Limited Andruw Jones Monikers Autograph

I was never quite sure how Andruw Jones got Andruw Jones out of this signature, but I could recognize it anywhere.  Andruw Jones has signed a ton of cards too.  Really an easy autograph to find.

Other nominees include: Todd Helton, Stan Musial, Ryan Howard, Mike Piazza, Nomar Garciaparra, Bob Gibson, Aubrey Huff, Orlando Cabrera, Carlos Delgado, Ryne Sandberg, Mike Mussina, Mike Schmidt, Jason Schmidt, and the Fabulous Molina Brothers.  

The Bad

I see two clear winners here.  First, the worst signature that I own clearly belongs to Geronimo Gil.  This is just simply horrible.  

2002 Donruss Originals Geronimo Gil Signature Marks Autograph

Fortunately, Donruss limited production of this card to only 200 copies.  I am guessing that it took all of ten minutes to sign all 200 cards.  Really bad.  

My other low style points autograph belongs to relief pitcher Jose Valverde.  The sad part about Valverde's signature is that he has changed it over time.  Changing, or evolving, signatures is really common.  Look at Mark McGwire or Enrique Wilson and you can see how a signature can transform in a positive manner over time.  Valverde....

Well, it start off poorly in 2002 when he autograph first appeared in the Bowman's Best release as a Diamondbacks prospect.  

2002 Bowman's Best Jose Valverde

Pretty bad stuff.  Now, Valverde has actually made his autograph worse.  He has signed for almost all of the Topps products this year and I haven't decided how this happened, but.....

2012 Topps Triple Threads Jose Valverde Jersey/Autograph

Other nominees include: Manny Ramirez, Greg Maddux, Jon Jay, Fernando Tatis, Kevin Kouzmanoff, and Justin Verlander 

Overall, I think that Schmidt makes some valid points about autographs.  Some of them can be difficult to read, or challenging to match up to a player.  It's obvious some players really don't care about how their signature looks and will just sign something to get it over with.  However, there are still players with really nice signatures who take pride in their autograph and give fans and collectors a nice product to seek out for their collections.  There are also players who might not have a recognizable signature, but can still be appreciated for it's effort and appearance, such as my current favorite:

2010 Topps Chrome Drew Storen Autograph