Paul Bryant's Reviews > Oliver Twist

Reading this atm and I'd forgotten how anti-Semitic he can be. Considering his breadth of imagination etc, it's all a bit disappointing and thoroughly unChristmassy (is that even a word?). But forget that, your reviews are v v funny and those who say otherwise were born without the irony-gene and therefore should be pitied and forgiven, in a charitable Yuletide fashion ;)

I forgive them. As regards Fagin, I think Dr Goebbels would surely have had a copy of Oliver Twist on his bookshelf. But in mitigation, CD was 26 when he wrote it, and I think in this early period he was dealing in lively off-the-peg caricature a lot of the time (enlivened by genuine creations like Sam Weller). Some might say he never rose above grotesquerie and ther lies the argument between CD fans and critics.

CD received a complaint about said anti-Semitism from a contemporary female reader (the wife of a Jewish banker). In contrition, he took out references to Fagin as "the Jew" in later editions of the book. He also put a positive portrayal of a kindly and charitable Jew in Our Mutual Friend.

I'm a fan and I like his caricatures; they are normally quite idiosyncratic I thought and not linked to fusty old stereotypes. To be fair though haven't read much of his early stuff so probably a bit too soon to comment.

Yes I loved Our Mutual Friend, though Riah the kindly Jew was still rather unimaginatively a money-lender.

I've been catching oodles of shit over on my review for calling out the anti-Semitism in Oliver Twist; turns out some people really like this book, who knew? It's been sorta fun.

Richard, good point there, and I think that's key to discussing this book: even given the context of the time, Twist was anti-Semitic enough to raise eyebrows.

I love Dickens, but for me this book is not great.

I think you wrong Dickens to portray him as rabidly anti-Semitic. The character of Fagan was based on a real person, and it's not an untruth that relative to the size of their population there were a lot of Jewish money lenders in Britain. Exactly what percentage of fences and Kkidsmen in London were Jews, I couldn't say, but it also seems to have been a niche trade that the particular ethnic community had moved into - much as some Irish, Italians, and Jews moved into bootlegging when they arrived in prohibition era America. Would it be racist write such a story? When Dickens realized he'd given offense to a Jewish friend through the characterization of Fagin, he excised his ethnicity from the text. And he seems to be rather far from being a vicious critic of the religion or ethnic group. I think calling someone anti-Semitic for having Fagin be a Jew would be like calling someone anti-Semitic for having a terrorist be Islamic, and is the sort of impulse that has us rewriting all the villains into blond haired Aryans with English accents and neo-Nazi sentiments and patting ourselves on the back for being so fair-minded and racially inclusive. At some point the genuflection to avoid giving offense because a certain sort of racialist world view in itself. If you can't see anything in Othello but a tale of how dark skinned men shouldn't be allowed to consort with fair skinned women and/or that's the first thing you are worried about, then you've gotten really small minded IMO.

Right, yeah, that's exactly what I've been getting. Well parodied, Matt.

Alex wrote: "Right, yeah, that's exactly what I've been getting. Well parodied, Matt."

Uh. Who are you exactly? Let me check out your review...

Ok. Wow. That's incredibly unthoughtful and uninteresting. I feel cheated that I paid it any attention.

You know what you remind me of? Those elementary kids in Sunday school who whenever asked a question about anything, feel the safe and correct answer must be Jesus. It's annoying behavior in a six year old; it's down right exasperating in an adult.

Do you have anything actually to say that is your own, or does linking to Wikipedia articles you demonstrate poor comprehension of constitute the bulk of your mental activity? I don't know. You seem a bit bitter that 'Racism' isn't as reliable of an answer for garnering approval as people suppose 'Jesus' is.

I mean, ultimately, you are just flat out wrong. 'Twist' wasn't received as being particularly anti-Semitic for its time. Dickens didn't bow to media pressure to change his book because it was unpopular and wasn't selling because people were so shocked. Dickens fond out he'd hurt the feelings of a family friend who was Jewish, and he rushed at no small expense to himself to correct the mistake. This doesn't make Dickens more anti-Semitic than his time, but rather less, and that a Jewish reader was sensitive to the portrayal in no way indicates that the book was widely perceived as being beyond the pale so that even people who accepted the racial world view (virtually everyone) fond the book barbaric and not fitting the dignity of a 'civilized Englishmen'. To claim that is to have no ability to judge a text at all.

seriously paul your mad

but pleasant to know.

no!its not pleasant to know

and "Merry Christmas"to all of you

Mad perhaps. But like the Mad Hatter.

Charles Dickens had nothing to do with the movie, the movie was just based on the book. The movie was made after he died considering they didn't even have movies when the book was written. Just saying. So there was no way he could've put the songs in the book, it just--no. Just no.

Well, he coulda put the lyrics in the book. But he didn't. Pretty feeble if you ask me. How hard could it be for him to think up food glorious food?

I agree. Sounds like a flimsy excuse to me. It isn't like they didn't invent music until after he died.

Yes, the book and the musical adaptation are very different. Same with Phantom of the Opera, Les Miserables, Wicked, and a bunch of other novel-to-musicals.

One of the funniest reviews I've read in a long time. Thanks for the laugh.

One of the funniest reviews I've read in a long time. Thanks for the laugh.

Thanks Debra.... I don't know what comes over me sometimes...

I don't have much of a sense of humour, so I hope you were kidding...

Yes Tren, I was. Sometimes a devilish spirit enters into my reviews.

Now that I have a little son of my own I consume some media differently. I re-watched the movie 'Oliver' recently, and watched the 'food glorious food' opening with a sort of horror, like 'this isn't something to treat so lightly, singing and dancing, these poor boys are just tiny children and they're STARVING and have no future, how dare the movie glamourise their plight with choreography [etc etc]'. A bit like how some people read your reviews.
I am going to read Our Mutual Friend soon ('soon' = sometime in life). I know nothing about the story and that makes it more appealing.

Emma, OMF is one of the great ones, I think you'll like it. All 900 pages.

Oh I found out later. This review was written many years ago.

Sorry Sarah, I must admit I was pulling your leg - see message 68 above. A number of people have taken me seriously... same thing happened here

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Jfc i loved this book but this comic is my all tome favourite

This book is anti-Semitic. So is The Merchant of Venice. Such books should be hated on principle, whether they have literary quality or not.

that is why we read the book first before watching the movie my friend...:)

Paul, it's a funny review, but if someone doesn't like a 1961 Bordeaux Haut Brion, it says more about the consumer than the wine.

a very good

Hats off to the wine comment. Brilliant, Chris, brilliant. ^^

ha, I hope they get the humour - strangely enough, some people miss it.

Paul wrote: "ha, I hope they get the humour - strangely enough, some people miss it."

And those are the people whose comments are the most entertaining. (Almost as amusing as the review itself.)

Paul, I don't know which edition you read, but I have an original signed first edition and it's FULL of songs. Fair enough their all rubbish, but dickens was of course profoundly deaf.

that explains a lot..... You know I bet your original signed edition must be worth a bit by now.

Paul wrote: "that explains a lot..... You know I bet your original signed edition must be worth a bit by now."

Holy smokes! A signed first edition??? You're a rich man! ^^

LOL. Oh, shoot, Paul. Oliver Twist is my favorite Dickens. But then of course, I haven't seen the musical.

On a slightly more serious note, I can't see how anyone could prefer Oliver Twist to Bleak House which I have previously described as being just like The Wire only with less gay sex. Bleak House is the best Dickens!

Bleak House is the only Dickens which I started and didn't finish. Threw in the towel at about 2/3 of the way in. Although I appreciated it a little more some years later when embroiled as the executor of my aunt's will!

ok, may I ask what your 2nd favourite is?

Please write more reviews like this Paul, brightened up my Monday morning :)

Here's another one Lisa

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

:-)

Paul, I find it somewhat bizarre that I am pointing this out to an Englishman, but when have you ever heard of any Jews named "Fagin"? It's an Irish name, more commonly anglicised as "Fagan", "Feghan" or "Feehan". Surely you are aware that criminality has long been attributed to my race by bigots... I have to admit, though, that if I were a Brit I might suspect that Irishmen have a slight tendency toward, or even a penchant for lawlessness, hahaha...

Great review, as usual, by the way- I fucking loathe Dickens. For my money, the only good thing about 'Oliver Twist' is that it isn't 'A Tale Of Two Cities'...

Wiki says : Dickens took Fagin's name from a friend he had known in his youth while working in a boot-blacking factory.[1]
Fagin's character might be based on the criminal Ikey Solomon, who was a fence at the centre of a highly publicised arrest, escape, recapture, and trial.[2][3] Some accounts of Solomon also describe him as a London underworld "kidsman" (a kidsman was an adult who recruited children and trained them as pickpockets, exchanging food and shelter for goods the children stole). The popularity of Dickens's novel caused "fagin" to replace "kidsman" in some crime circles, denoting an adult who teaches minors to steal and keeps a major portion of the loot.

Didn't your teacher tell you not to trust Wikipedia

lmao

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