Two Questions: Ampersand Cops and Character Choice Flops!

Martinex1: Hope you all are having a great week! Today let's dive into two series of questions that have been floating around in my head - one focused on comics and the other on television!  I am curious to hear what you have to say.  Cheers!


Martinex1: (Editor's Note):  This week, for the first time in 63 attempts we had a suggestion for our Tuesday Follow the Leader discussion that conflicted with a column we had planned.  Our friend and frequent commentator Colin Jones said, "Who were the most annoying Bronze Age characters that should have been killed off (permanently)? I'm mainly thinking of comics but you can also include TV shows, Cartoons, film, etc."    He then went on to mention some of his least favorites... "Aunt May, Odin, The original X-Men, Magneto, Red Skull (etc)..."


While today's column does not go so far as to want characters to die, we are asking a question (#1 below) that  discusses characters we don't like and the impact of not liking that character.   Although, not exactly the same query, I thought it was close enough in spirit that we might share our general dislike about certain characters in one column rather than two so we don't repeat and offend all of the BitBA fans.  Our posts are usually planned well in advance (well at least an hour or in this case about a week).  We appreciate Colin offering up a different topic on Tuesday. 


So in the spirit of Colin's original comment if you would like to discuss actually killing off annoying characters, please do so.  Here in it's entirety... are the questions for today's post as we originally intended.



Question #1:  We have discussed before how a change in a creative team has prevented us from buying a comic book (or after a small sampling we changed our purchasing decision). But what about a character change?   Has a change in roster on a team or the inclusion of a certain character (or dismissal of another) caused you to remove the comic book from your "buy" list?  And vice versa has a certain character being included caused you to try a title you had not before?

For me, there were a few characters that just rubbed me the wrong way.  I did not jump ship when Angel replaced Cyclops in the X-Men (probably because Byrne and Claremont were still involved) but I did not like that development.  I understood Cyclops leaving after the Dark Phoenix events, but it really felt like they had to shoehorn in an "original" member and the Beast was taken.  Angel never did anything in that run and eventually disappeared.

The New Defenders did not seem like the classic Defenders I knew, so I did not pursue any of the issues with the Beast, Angel, and Moondragon.  But even before that revamp, I skipped every issue that included Daimon Hellstrom.  I just do not like the character and seeing him in the corner box just made me spend my money elsewhere. That combined with Nighthawk not being shown assured my disdain.  Nighthawk was the opposite for me; generally if he showed up I was interested.

Revamping Alpha Flight seemed like a huge misstep.  I never picked up any of their Volume 2, but even prior to that when the team included Box and Talisman, I started to drift away because they did not interest me.

And though an Avengers fan, that roster change in issue #211 really ended my interest for a long while.  And even when I perused future issues, Starfox was somebody that added to my dislike.  The roster below would have been cool but the lothario from Titan irritated me.

Books like Marvel Team-Up and Marvel Two-In-One could be hit or miss; again certain characters in the corner box assured my buying or refusal to buy.  My quarters were too hard earned then and I had to be selective. Here are some I skipped even though the issues themselves may have been spectacular (and in the case of Red Sonja - a classic).

So who don't you  like as a character?  Who drives you away from  a purchase?  Is it a headliner or even a supporting cast member that makes you gag?  Who makes you choose Richie Rich rather than a super-hero mag?



Question #2: Bronze Age television seemed to be rife with police procedurals and detective dramas; we have opined in the past about some of the greats like Columbo and The Rockford Files. But there seemed to be a subset of these shows that starred a seemingly mismatched set of partners.  Of the "partner investigator" shows, which were your favorites and why?  Who got the chemistry just right?

dis

This & That: Hulk Annual 7!



Hulk Annual 7; 1978

Redartz:  Hello, hulkophiles! For today's installment of "HULK WEEK," we will look at a great Hulk story from 1978. Appropriately, for a BIG character like ol' Greenskin, we feature a King-Size Annual: Hulk Annual 7!  This Bronze Age behemoth was brought to you by writer Roger Stern, penciller/co-plotter John Byrne, and inker Bob Layton. Now that's a top-notch combo.

Brief note for art lovers; pardon my scans- it was challenging to get an even scan with the flat-bound spine of this book; but I think you'll get the gist of things!

Martinex1:  The scans look great to me.   What a stellar creative team this book has!  I've always liked when Roger Stern and John Byrne team up.   This was obviously before their Captain America and Marvel: The Lost Generation runs, but you can definitely see the benefits of their partnership in this classic annual.


Redartz: Our story, in a Hulk-sized nutshell: 

 

It all starts with Warren Worthington III (Angel) watching a news story about the Hulk (and it looks like he's watching Walter Cronkite). The Hulk has been staying at Gamma Base with Doc Samson, where the attempt is underway to cure Bruce Banner from his verdant alter-ego. Angel is shortly the recipient of a visitor: his teammate Bobby Drake, the Iceman (with his own date along for the trip). 

Martinex1: This book was on the sale rack in May of 1978.  The Champions had finished up their run about seven months prior.   It was good to see Byrne bringing back Warren and Bobby for this; he wasn't using them in X-Men at the time.  And I always thought he drew a nice Angel; he had a good feel for the placement and handling of the wings.   That sure is a huge tube television Warren owns. 





Redartz: As the group relaxes poolside, another visitor shows up: a buckskin clad stranger, who soon is revealed as the Master Mold Sentinel! The Sentinel defeats Iceman and pursues Angel, who (seeking assistance) recalls that Gamma Base isn't far away. He lures the Sentinel there, where the arrival causes a ruckus awakening the Hulk. 

Martinex1:  I am not that familiar with the colorist for this issue, Janice Cohen.   But I think she did a tremendous job.  I really like the mood she creates.  I am not sure how much John Byrne had a hand in the direction, but the shadowy panels on the earlier splash page and here with Master Mold in the raincoat and hat stick with me.   In regards to the story, I had no idea that Master Mold could transform or change sizes until I read this. 




Redartz: You're right, Janice does the art proud with her colors here. And I wondered about the size-change thing too- and wondered where he got the idea for a buckskin disguise...
Battle ensues, and the Sentinel flies off with Angel and Iceman, and the Hulk hanging along. To where, you ask? To a satellite in orbit; a big one sized for a Sentinel.  





As even Hulk can't breath in space, he passes out, and is imprisoned along with Warren and Bobby in the Sentinel's satellite lab. Of course, no tube can hold the Hulk, so shortly all are freed, battle again rages. The 'Master Mold' Sentinel reveals himself to be the downloaded  remnant of Steven Lang, who had supposedly been blown up after facing the X-Men. But  Hulk doesn't need details, he just wants to deal with 'the robot', and literally rips the Sentinel apart. 

Martinex1:   The tubes they were trapped in reminded me of the same glass prisons many mutants were kept in back when the Sentinels were guided by Larry Trask in Neal Adam's X-Men run.   I like that continuity as it seems logical that the Sentinel's tools would be consistent.

In the panel where the Hulk stands amongst the wreckage of the robot, does ol' Greenskin seem too small to you?   It is an amazing shot with a lot of impact but I did not think Master Mold was that big.

 





Redartz: Good point about the size! In the earlier panel with the unconscious Hulk grasping the Sentinel's foot while hurtling through space, the size comparison seems similar to the panel you mention. That must have been one mighty big satellite...
 Meanwhile, it turns out the Sentinel had activated the self-destruct (every satellite has one, of course). Angel and Iceman try in vain to convince Hulk to 'abandon ship'; he knocks them back to earth. Upon emerging from the escape capsule, they are met by the Hulk: not blown to bits, he just fell to earth with them!


I wasn't familiar with the specifics of the Hulk's storyline at this point in time, so the situation at Gamma Base was new to me. No problem here, though, Roger Stern and co-plotter John Byrne put together a fine, self-contained story that explains all you need to know (while including many references to events in other books). I did recognize Doc Samson, General Ross and Jim Wilson from some previous Hulky reading, and the Warren's reference to the Champions plane was a nice nod to that book. Stern really gets the details right, a trait he showed emphatically later with Spider-Man and the Avengers. 

Martinex1:  Ha! Yes, it has really become a sci-fi trope to have some kind of mechanism to cause the entire self-destruction of a ship.   From Alien to Star Wars to the Hulk annual, there is always something that makes everything go "Boom!" if things get out of hand.  

It is interesting you mention that you weren't following Hulk at the time; I would only pick up issues of this era intermittently.    The one thing about the Hulk though is that I always felt I knew his character, so jumping in wasn't strenuous.  Stern and Byrne handle him well here.


Redartz: The reveal of and battle with the Sentinel were well done. The clever use of the frozen swimming pool was cool (sorry, couldn't resist), and Warren's desperate flight to Gamma Base was both appropriate and dramatic. The Hulk fight was unique, as well; I loved the scene with ol' Greenskin gettting doused. His expression says everything.

Regarding the Hulk, I was impressed with the depiction of his mental capabilities. It went far beyond the old "Hulk smash." His argument with Samson evidenced that the Hulk was putting that head to some use, and showed he didn't appreciate the low esteem others had for that head. Seeing a bit more personality in Hulk really made him more engaging, less 1-dimensional. Of course, this portrayal may have been the prevailing approach then, I don't know as I wasn't following it at the time. HB, I trust you will set me straight.

Martinex1:  It always seemed to me that the Hulk had a range of emotions and relative intelligence based on his experiences, and I thought this fit into his wheelhouse.   Though like you said the prevailing instinct is to assume Hulk is more mindless than this.   When I read these older stories, I like how the Hulk is almost portrayed as a bad guy, powerful and dangerous, but he just happens to be on the side of the angels.   I like imagining how he'd take down other powerhouses if they crossed him wrong.  He is unpredictable but astonishingly fun to root for. 


Redartz: The artwork? Absolutely gorgeous. Those Rocky Mountain landscapes are magnificent. Angel's wings never looked more three-dimensional. The outer space vistas- breathtaking. Byrne in this era never disappoints, and this time he Hulkin' nails it! And those Layton inks- not commonly seen on Byrne, but what a combo! A very striking, effective combination of styles. Layton's tight inks just add a luster to Byrne's fine pencils. A joy to look this book over. 

Martinex1: I too really like the art here.   John Byrne, infamously has remarked on Bob Layton's inks - suffice it to say that Byrne did not like them at all.   I, like you Redartz, really like the combination.  On occasion, I agree with Byrne that Layton over-inks the faces and mouths.   I can see that, particularly when compared to Terry Austin's work, and if it is brought to my attention I may lean Byrne's way slightly on that.   But I do however like Layton's level of detail, use of shadow, and minor lines and overall think he is a plus to Byrne's pencils.

Since we have talked about the rest of the creative team, I'd also like to point out the lettering work by James Novak.   Again, I am not sure if it was all at his discretion (or if Byrne had drawn them into the panels) but there were a number of sound effects used to great impact.   Sometimes the sounds were melded into the background of the action  (as in the panels above when the Hulk takes down Master Mold) and sometimes they seemed to reverberate.  


Redartz: I found the ending slightly predictable but fun. We knew Hulk wasn't going to be obliterated in space, but seeing the reactions of Warren and Bobby as Hulk climbed out of the water was great.
All told, an fine annual, a solid enjoyable story that kept my interest throughout. Excellent artwork, and a nice protrayal of the Hulk. Time well spent. 

Martinex1:  I agree completely.   Sure it ends rather succinctly, but it is a self-contained annual and I feel it is better than most.  I am glad I read this again; it wasn't a Marvel universe impacting story but it was really entertaining one-off with a great amount of energy and top notch fight scenes.

The Good:  Redartz:  Again, the artwork. I'm still glassy eyed from admiring it.  Martinex1:  I am with you there; top talent at the peak of their enjoyment and creativity.  There were also some moments of humor like when Hulk bopped Doc Samson on the head; I like that blend of drama, action, and smiles.

The Bad: Redartz: Nothing really, the only minor complaint: it sort of seemed like an Angel/Iceman story guest starring the Hulk. Perhaps a bit more face time for the Big Guy would have made this book even better. But a very small complaint. Martinex1:  That is a great point, and I thought the two X-Men were good straight men for the Hulk's savagery.   The bad for me is that this creative team didn't do more together.

The Ugly: Redartz: Hulk's disembowelment of the Sentinel. Glad he was machine and not flesh and blood. Yuck. Martinex1:  Yes indeed!  No ugly here - just really glad you suggested this story.   Cheers!

When the creative team is clicking; even the most basic plot points seem grand!