Martinex1: Whether dystopian or utopian, which comic book future world is the most fascinating, well thought out, and creative? Which future is the best?
Showing posts with label Deathlok. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Deathlok. Show all posts
Thursday, June 23, 2016
Wednesday, May 6, 2015
Super Blog Team-Up: The Top 10 Bronze Age Characters (x2!)
Karen: Today we're taking part in another Super-Blog Team-Up, the sixth in fact, and this time around, as you can tell from the logo above, the topic is Top Ten lists. For our contribution, Doug and I decided to choose the Top Ten Characters Born of the Bronze Age. Now since we're both mainly Marvelites, we stuck with Marvel characters, and heroes; and Doug proposed a little twist: he picked out female characters, while I chose male ones.
Karen: For my criteria, I considered things like impact and influence, longevity, and aesthetic appeal. Admittedly, these are subjective determinations, but in making my choices, I did try to give them numerical scores. In some cases however, I went with my gut: how could I deny that Wolverine deserved the top spot on my list? This is not a list of my favorites (Punisher would never make a list of my favorite characters) but a list of those I think have proven to be the most important Marvel Bronze Age male heroes for a variety of reasons. I left out licensed characters so you won’t see Conan or Rom. Also, after discussion with my esteemed colleague, we decided that some characters, such as Beast and Warlock, despite having their beginnings in the Silver Age, had been so thoroughly changed in the Bronze Age as to be completely different incarnations, and could be eligible for this list. So without any more jabbering, here’s my top ten:
1st Appearance: Incredible Hulk # 180 (here's our review of Hulk #181) (November 1974)
Creators: Roy Thomas, John Romita Sr., Len Wein, Herb Trimpe
Yes, he’s insanely over-exposed but there’s no
denying that of all the characters created at Marvel during the Bronze Age,
he’s the only one that can be said to rival the popularity of any of the
original Silver Age creations. What made him so great in the Bronze Age? A
mysterious past, a bad attitude, an unpredictability that made him exciting. His
powers were also unique – claws? And he actually cut people? Perhaps it was the
beginning of the end of the Bronze Age and Wolverine was the harbinger of the
Grim and Gritty era, with his bloodlust. But at his best, he was a fascinating
anti-hero with an evolving personality.
1st Appearance: Amazing Spider-Man #129 (February 1974)
Creators: Gerry Conway, John Romita Sr., Ross Andru
Creators: Gerry Conway, John Romita Sr., Ross Andru
In
some ways, the Punisher is similar to Wolverine. He’s an anti-hero as well,
even more likely to kill than the mutant berserker. His origin was inspired by
both pulp books and films like Death Wish
and Dirty Harry, where vigilantes
took the law into their own hands. This had a strong appeal in the 70s (and
still does today).He was ridiculously popular for a
couple of decades and inspired a lot of copycats, although he’s cooled off
lately. Even so, he’s continued to hang around and is right below Wolvie as far
as his overall impact and longevity for a Bronze Age character. Plus, you gotta
love that John Romita Sr. costume design. The skull covering the entire torso
–a classic.
1st Appearance: Hero for Hire #1 (June 1972)
Creators: Archie Goodwin, John Romita Sr., George Tuska
Creators: Archie Goodwin, John Romita Sr., George Tuska
Like so many others on this list, Cage was born out
of a fad –the blaxploitation films of the early 70s. But he’s outlived those
films and continued to be a significant player in the Marvel Universe. Cage was
the first Black super-hero to have his own title, and this distinction
automatically makes him an impact character. He frequently guest-starred in
other titles and later teamed up with Iron Fist for a terrific buddy comic that
ran for many years. Throughout his iterations, his strong personality has
defined him –Lord knows his costumes have never been winners.
4. Adam Warlock
1st Appearance (as Him): Fantastic Four #66 (September 1967)
1st Appearance (as Adam Warlock): Marvel Premiere #1 (April 1972)
Creators: Jack Kirby, Stan Lee, Roy Thomas, Gil Kane, Jim Starlin
Although he first appeared as a modern reimagining of Frankenstein courtesy of Lee and Kirby, the character of Him would soon be radically transformed, first by Roy Thomas and Gil Kane, and yet again, even more substantially, by Jim Starlin. Warlock is the poster boy for cosmic hero at Marvel, and the outgrowth of cosmic characters to this day owe no small debt to him, and also to Starlin’s other work with Captain Marvel. Thanos is one of the most popular villains in comics, and despite the Captain facing him first, it was his conflict with Warlock that thrust him into the limelight. Warlock is perpetually being killed and reborn it seems, to suit whatever needs Marvel has for him, but he’s rarely off the map for long.
5. Ghost Rider
1st Appearance: Marvel Spotlight #5 (August 1972)
Creators: Gary Friedrich, Roy Thomas, Mike Ploog
Here’s a character that gets on the list mainly because he’s managed to hang on for so damn long. I think the major appeal is the visual: the demonic cyclist is a winner. But I have to say, personally I've never been a big fan of the character. I read the Johnny Blaze books somewhat regularly in the 70s and never thought they were very good.When Ploog was drawing the book, at least it looked brilliant. But it suffered from constantly changing creative teams. Ghost Rider also slides also into the monster/horror category, and it seems difficult for writers to figure out what to do with him. But he’s had staying power, there’s no denying that. He’s even had a couple of terrible movies made (Nicholas Cage? Really?). So that longevity, and his general recognition factor, earns him a spot on the list.
6. The Beast
1st Appearance (human form): X-Men #1 (September 1963)
1st Appearance (furry form): Amazing Adventures #11 (March 1972)
Creators: Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Roy Thomas, Gerry Conway, Tom Sutton, Steve Englehart
The Beast, like Warlock, is another character who was so completely transformed in the 70s as to almost be an entirely different character. In an attempt to ‘jazz up’ the hero, he was given a truly animalistic look. Along with the visual change, writer Steve Englehart also expanded his character, taking the Beast from a brainy nerd who constantly dropped five syllable words to a more complex soul who had an appreciation and knowledge of arts and culture as well –and more of a wild side. His zany wit would help loosen up the Avengers when he joined –the first X-Men to do so (back when that actually meant something). After a long tenure with that team, Beast would spend time with the Defenders, and then bounce between the X-folks and the Avengers. He’s been counted as one of the most brilliant minds in the Marvel Universe and he’s still going strong today.
7. Nightcrawler
1st Appearance: Giant-Size X-Men #1 (May 1975)
Creators: Dave Cockrum, Len Wein
The two mutants at positions 7 and 8 on the list were a very close call for me. Nightcrawler came out slightly ahead of Colossus based primarily on the strength of his personality, and the great costume design of Dave Cockrum. It’s no surprise that the core team of new-new X-Men from Giant-Size X-Men #1 all make Doug and my lists. These guys were winners- well, except for poor Thunderbird. He never got a chance. Nightcrawler from the very beginning had a well-defined personality, showy powers, and a cool costume. He’s been dead but he’s been brought back. He’s just too darn likable.
8. Colossus
1st Appearance: Giant-Size X-Men #1 (May 1975)
Creators: Dave Cockrum, Len Wein
The Russian mutant is a little less interesting than his fellow team-mates but there’s no denying he’s exciting in action. Plus, he’s just a great big nice guy. Like Nightcrawler, he was killed off and brought back (what is it with X-Men and death?). Colossus continues to exert a presence in the Marvel U.
9. Iron Fist
1st Appearance: Marvel Premiere #15 (May 1974)
Creators: Roy Thomas, Gil Kane
Like his later partner, Luke Cage, Iron Fist was born of a fad, from the flood of martial arts movies in the late 60s/early 70s. Throw in some mysticism and a funky outfit and a grade B star is born. It didn't hurt that his early series was written by Chris Claremont and drawn by John Byrne. His later partnership with Cage (aka Power Man) is fondly remembered. And he has regained popularity recently.
10. Deathlok
1st Appearance: Astonishing Tales #25 (August 1974)
Creators: Rich Buckler, Doug Moench
The post-apocalyptic cyborg gets the nod here because it’s a concept that just won’t die. Besides the original character created by Rich Buckler and Doug Moench, it’s been revisited a couple more times in the comics, and even an ersatz version of Deathlok (it looks so terrible) has popped up on the Agents of SHIELD TV show. The original story that ran in Astonishing Tales was sheer punk, not your usual Marvel fare –except, in 70s, you never knew what you’d get from Marvel! Oh, how I miss those days. Deathlok was decidedly different and still resonates.
Karen: After composing my list, I thought it was interesting that everything on it was from 1972-1975 –a particularly fertile period of time for Marvel. There were a number of characters I left off that quite frankly might have made the list, if I’d been in a different mood, or done it on a different day: Moonknight, Shang-Chi, and Nova all came close. But I’m satisfied with the ten heroes I've selected.
1st Appearance (as Him): Fantastic Four #66 (September 1967)
1st Appearance (as Adam Warlock): Marvel Premiere #1 (April 1972)
Creators: Jack Kirby, Stan Lee, Roy Thomas, Gil Kane, Jim Starlin
Although he first appeared as a modern reimagining of Frankenstein courtesy of Lee and Kirby, the character of Him would soon be radically transformed, first by Roy Thomas and Gil Kane, and yet again, even more substantially, by Jim Starlin. Warlock is the poster boy for cosmic hero at Marvel, and the outgrowth of cosmic characters to this day owe no small debt to him, and also to Starlin’s other work with Captain Marvel. Thanos is one of the most popular villains in comics, and despite the Captain facing him first, it was his conflict with Warlock that thrust him into the limelight. Warlock is perpetually being killed and reborn it seems, to suit whatever needs Marvel has for him, but he’s rarely off the map for long.
1st Appearance: Marvel Spotlight #5 (August 1972)
Creators: Gary Friedrich, Roy Thomas, Mike Ploog
Here’s a character that gets on the list mainly because he’s managed to hang on for so damn long. I think the major appeal is the visual: the demonic cyclist is a winner. But I have to say, personally I've never been a big fan of the character. I read the Johnny Blaze books somewhat regularly in the 70s and never thought they were very good.When Ploog was drawing the book, at least it looked brilliant. But it suffered from constantly changing creative teams. Ghost Rider also slides also into the monster/horror category, and it seems difficult for writers to figure out what to do with him. But he’s had staying power, there’s no denying that. He’s even had a couple of terrible movies made (Nicholas Cage? Really?). So that longevity, and his general recognition factor, earns him a spot on the list.
1st Appearance (human form): X-Men #1 (September 1963)
1st Appearance (furry form): Amazing Adventures #11 (March 1972)
Creators: Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Roy Thomas, Gerry Conway, Tom Sutton, Steve Englehart
The Beast, like Warlock, is another character who was so completely transformed in the 70s as to almost be an entirely different character. In an attempt to ‘jazz up’ the hero, he was given a truly animalistic look. Along with the visual change, writer Steve Englehart also expanded his character, taking the Beast from a brainy nerd who constantly dropped five syllable words to a more complex soul who had an appreciation and knowledge of arts and culture as well –and more of a wild side. His zany wit would help loosen up the Avengers when he joined –the first X-Men to do so (back when that actually meant something). After a long tenure with that team, Beast would spend time with the Defenders, and then bounce between the X-folks and the Avengers. He’s been counted as one of the most brilliant minds in the Marvel Universe and he’s still going strong today.
1st Appearance: Giant-Size X-Men #1 (May 1975)
Creators: Dave Cockrum, Len Wein
The two mutants at positions 7 and 8 on the list were a very close call for me. Nightcrawler came out slightly ahead of Colossus based primarily on the strength of his personality, and the great costume design of Dave Cockrum. It’s no surprise that the core team of new-new X-Men from Giant-Size X-Men #1 all make Doug and my lists. These guys were winners- well, except for poor Thunderbird. He never got a chance. Nightcrawler from the very beginning had a well-defined personality, showy powers, and a cool costume. He’s been dead but he’s been brought back. He’s just too darn likable.
8. Colossus
1st Appearance: Giant-Size X-Men #1 (May 1975)
Creators: Dave Cockrum, Len Wein
The Russian mutant is a little less interesting than his fellow team-mates but there’s no denying he’s exciting in action. Plus, he’s just a great big nice guy. Like Nightcrawler, he was killed off and brought back (what is it with X-Men and death?). Colossus continues to exert a presence in the Marvel U.
1st Appearance: Marvel Premiere #15 (May 1974)
Creators: Roy Thomas, Gil Kane
Like his later partner, Luke Cage, Iron Fist was born of a fad, from the flood of martial arts movies in the late 60s/early 70s. Throw in some mysticism and a funky outfit and a grade B star is born. It didn't hurt that his early series was written by Chris Claremont and drawn by John Byrne. His later partnership with Cage (aka Power Man) is fondly remembered. And he has regained popularity recently.
1st Appearance: Astonishing Tales #25 (August 1974)
Creators: Rich Buckler, Doug Moench
The post-apocalyptic cyborg gets the nod here because it’s a concept that just won’t die. Besides the original character created by Rich Buckler and Doug Moench, it’s been revisited a couple more times in the comics, and even an ersatz version of Deathlok (it looks so terrible) has popped up on the Agents of SHIELD TV show. The original story that ran in Astonishing Tales was sheer punk, not your usual Marvel fare –except, in 70s, you never knew what you’d get from Marvel! Oh, how I miss those days. Deathlok was decidedly different and still resonates.
Karen: After composing my list, I thought it was interesting that everything on it was from 1972-1975 –a particularly fertile period of time for Marvel. There were a number of characters I left off that quite frankly might have made the list, if I’d been in a different mood, or done it on a different day: Moonknight, Shang-Chi, and Nova all came close. But I’m satisfied with the ten heroes I've selected.
Here's my very non-scientific list, ranked 1st to 10th. If you're looking for subjective, you've come to the right place!
1st appearance: Uncanny X-Men #101 (1976)
Created by Chris Claremont and Dave Cockrum
Key appearances: X-Men #101-137
Created by Chris Claremont and Dave Cockrum
Key appearances: X-Men #101-137
As with Karen's list, some of the characters below were actually created in the Silver Age but reached new prominence in the Bronze Age. Jean Grey fits into that category. When you think about it, her story arc truly ran from her introduction/makeover in X-Men #101 to her death at the end of the "Dark Phoenix Saga". While she wasn't always at the forefront of the team's adventures, the running backstory that led up to her ultimate fate kept readers waiting anxiously for the next month's issue. Had Marvel allowed her to stay dead, her legend might be even greater. At any rate, her swansong ranks among the top two or three stories of the entire era.
2. Storm
1st appearance: Giant-Size X-Men #1 (1975)
Created by Dave Cockrum
Key appearances: Giant-Size X-Men #1, Uncanny X-Men #94-142
Created by Dave Cockrum
Key appearances: Giant-Size X-Men #1, Uncanny X-Men #94-142
If the story surrounding Phoenix was the most notable adventure of the All-New, All-Different X-Men, Storm may have been the most important member -- yes, even beyond Wolverine. Now hold on just a minute... Sure, Wolverine was the break-out star of the group and really took on a life of his own. But Storm supplanted Cyclops as team leader, and for many people's money became the team's anchor. My favorite vignette involving Storm was in issue #113 when she frees her teammates from Magneto's bounds by using lock picks hidden in her headdress. It was a nice bit of organic character development on the part of Chris Claremont, but even moreso showed that the team's most powerful member (after Phoenix) could use her mind and practical skills to make a difference.Statuesque and beautiful, Storm was one of my favorites on that team.
3. Elektra
3. Elektra
1st appearance: Daredevil #168
Created by Frank Miller
Key appearances: Daredevil #168-181
Created by Frank Miller
Key appearances: Daredevil #168-181
I'll be honest. I don't have an affinity whatsoever for Elektra. Truth be told, it was years after the fact until I read the run of her appearances in Daredevil. But as with Phoenix, her death at the time resonated with fans, and if this is a Top 10 list of Bronze Age characters, her impact during our timeframe cannot be discounted. Elektra embodies the changes wrought by Frank Miller, and as we discussed a couple of weeks ago, Miller's changes to the DD mythos were perhaps the most radical character revision of all time. Elektra, then, deserves some serious notice on this list. Of course she's still around, most notably getting kicked in the crotch by Luke Cage in what was my swansong from buying new comics.
4. Ms. Marvel
4. Ms. Marvel
1st appearance: Ms. Marvel #1 (1977); as Carol Danvers Marvel Super-Heroes #13 (1968)
Created by Gerry Conway and John Buscema; Carol Danvers created by Roy Thomas and Gene Colan
Key appearances: Ms. Marvel #1-23, Avengers #171-177, 181-193
Created by Gerry Conway and John Buscema; Carol Danvers created by Roy Thomas and Gene Colan
Key appearances: Ms. Marvel #1-23, Avengers #171-177, 181-193
I was in on the adventures of Ms. Marvel from the get-go, which is unusual as I'll comment further down the line. I couldn't tell you what the attraction was to this character (well, aside from the window in her costume), as I'd not been a reader of Captain Marvel -- yes, I recognized that the costume was the same, but that wasn't the draw. But Marvel's attempt at creating a champion for women's lib in the ERA era, a woman with an important job who lived in a pretty nice apartment and kicked tail in her spare time should be lauded. Marvel did a nice job of marketing the character to boys like me, putting the Spidey cast on the cover of issue #1 along with the Scorpion (#s 1-2), and then guesting the Vision (#5), MODOK (#s 7-10), Tiger Shark (#s 15-16), the Avengers (#18), and Captain Marvel (#19). And oh yeah -- she became an Avenger herself, upping her Marvel Universe profile even further.
5. Valkyrie
5. Valkyrie
1st appearance: Defenders #4 (1972); prior incarnation in Avengers #83 (1970)
Created by Roy Thomas and John Buscema
Key appearances: Avengers #83, Defenders #4-45, Giant-Size Defenders #1-5, Marvel Two-In-One #7
Created by Roy Thomas and John Buscema
Key appearances: Avengers #83, Defenders #4-45, Giant-Size Defenders #1-5, Marvel Two-In-One #7
I first encountered Valkyrie in Marvel Two-In-One #7 -- we ran a post about it's great cover last year. As with all of the women discussed so far, independence is a notable character trait. Add in strength, a bit of bravado, and the fact that she doesn't take anything from anybody and Barbara Norris is a winner. Her tragic story of a husband she cannot love was a great hook early on. And, what was more Bronze Age than the Defenders? Her association with that team alone would place her high on anyone's list.
6. Mantis
1st appearance: Avengers #112 (1973)
Created by Steve Englehart and first drawn by Don Heck
Key appearances: Avengers #112-135, Giant-Size Avengers #2-4
Love her or hate her? It's been my experience that most Avengers fans hate her, both for her grating speech patterns as well as her pining for the Vision at a time when he and Wanda were having some relational difficulties. But I'll sit right here (well, I'm actually standing as I type this particular entry) and say that I like the character. For my money, the "Celestial Madonna" arc ranks among the top five or six Bronze Age arcs, and I pull those numbers out of the air -- it's near the top of my personal list. And, as many of us will attest, the creators and characters that we consider our personal "entry level" carry a ton of weight with us. Mantis is in that category for me. When I was but a waif I had a smattering of Avengers comics, but the first one I clearly recall buying off the shelf at a local drug store was Avengers #130, "The Reality Problem!". If I wasn't already hooked, I was after that one!
7. Red Sonja
Created by Steve Englehart and first drawn by Don Heck
Key appearances: Avengers #112-135, Giant-Size Avengers #2-4
Love her or hate her? It's been my experience that most Avengers fans hate her, both for her grating speech patterns as well as her pining for the Vision at a time when he and Wanda were having some relational difficulties. But I'll sit right here (well, I'm actually standing as I type this particular entry) and say that I like the character. For my money, the "Celestial Madonna" arc ranks among the top five or six Bronze Age arcs, and I pull those numbers out of the air -- it's near the top of my personal list. And, as many of us will attest, the creators and characters that we consider our personal "entry level" carry a ton of weight with us. Mantis is in that category for me. When I was but a waif I had a smattering of Avengers comics, but the first one I clearly recall buying off the shelf at a local drug store was Avengers #130, "The Reality Problem!". If I wasn't already hooked, I was after that one!
1st appearance: Conan the Barbarian #23 (Here's our review of Conan #24)(1973)
Created by Robert E. Howard; Marvel version created by Roy Thomas and Barry Windsor-Smith
Key appearances: Conan the Barbarian #23-24, Marvel Feature #1-7, Red Sonja #1-15
So why do you think Red Sonja is on this list? Cheesecake? Try that and she'd run you through! But let's face it -- she does fulfill a certain male fantasy, doesn't she? As a lad, I was fully aware of this character's presence in Marvel Feature and her later eponymous title. But unlike the Ms. Marvel book, I don't think I'd have had the nerve to pull one of her books off the shelf and take it to the counter. Don't ask me why -- seems weird, I know. But aside from the titillation, the stories I've read have been interesting and well done. And yeah -- that she wears a chain-mail bikini is perhaps a draw...
8. Glory Grant
Created by Robert E. Howard; Marvel version created by Roy Thomas and Barry Windsor-Smith
Key appearances: Conan the Barbarian #23-24, Marvel Feature #1-7, Red Sonja #1-15
So why do you think Red Sonja is on this list? Cheesecake? Try that and she'd run you through! But let's face it -- she does fulfill a certain male fantasy, doesn't she? As a lad, I was fully aware of this character's presence in Marvel Feature and her later eponymous title. But unlike the Ms. Marvel book, I don't think I'd have had the nerve to pull one of her books off the shelf and take it to the counter. Don't ask me why -- seems weird, I know. But aside from the titillation, the stories I've read have been interesting and well done. And yeah -- that she wears a chain-mail bikini is perhaps a draw...
1st appearance: Amazing Spider-Man #140 (1975)
Created by Gerry Conway and Ross Andru
Key appearances: Marvel Team-Up #30, Peter Parker #1-3, 7-8, Amazing Spider-Man #174-178
"Wait, what?" -I hear you say? Karen said she would look forward to my rationalizing this pick. I was surprised when doing research for the post that Glory Grant first appeared in the ASM book. I was pretty sure that it was in Marvel Team-Up. But why in the world is she on my list in place of the Black Cat or Tigra or Hellcat or Shanna the She-Devil? I guess for me she's here mostly for lost potential. And it's not that she's a bad character - no, not at all. I thought she was somewhat exciting as that next wave of supporting characters in the Spidey books, and I especially thought she'd take on a starring role when the Peter Parker book came along. What an opportunity to create some separation between the various titles by featuring supporting cast members in only certain books. A Spider-verse, yes, but still able to remain distinct across the publications. Anyway, Glory was a fun read whenever she showed up, and I enjoyed her limited appearances. And, this is my list...
9. She-Hulk
Created by Gerry Conway and Ross Andru
Key appearances: Marvel Team-Up #30, Peter Parker #1-3, 7-8, Amazing Spider-Man #174-178
"Wait, what?" -I hear you say? Karen said she would look forward to my rationalizing this pick. I was surprised when doing research for the post that Glory Grant first appeared in the ASM book. I was pretty sure that it was in Marvel Team-Up. But why in the world is she on my list in place of the Black Cat or Tigra or Hellcat or Shanna the She-Devil? I guess for me she's here mostly for lost potential. And it's not that she's a bad character - no, not at all. I thought she was somewhat exciting as that next wave of supporting characters in the Spidey books, and I especially thought she'd take on a starring role when the Peter Parker book came along. What an opportunity to create some separation between the various titles by featuring supporting cast members in only certain books. A Spider-verse, yes, but still able to remain distinct across the publications. Anyway, Glory was a fun read whenever she showed up, and I enjoyed her limited appearances. And, this is my list...
1st appearance: Savage She-Hulk #1 (1980)
Created by Stan Lee and John Buscema
Key appearances: Fantastic Four #265-285
As I began to read a listing of She-Hulk's appearances I found that not only was she introduced just as I was getting out of regular comics buying in 1980, but she really didn't appear in anything I read regularly until after our Bronze Age end-date of 1985. But she makes my list anyway but with a nod to those later years as an Avenger and as a member of the Fantastic Four (where I personally enjoyed her tenure as Ben's replacement after the Secret Wars or some such thing). I read the first few issues of the later John Byrne series but never warmed to it. I guess I prefer my superheroing played a bit straighter, but I appreciate what Byrne was doing. And the character is perfect for such a take. She's lasted in large part to her charm as well as to her strength. Oh, and she's smart, too! She's another great role model for young female readers.
10. Thundra
1st appearance: Fantastic
Four #129 (1972)Created by Stan Lee and John Buscema
Key appearances: Fantastic Four #265-285
As I began to read a listing of She-Hulk's appearances I found that not only was she introduced just as I was getting out of regular comics buying in 1980, but she really didn't appear in anything I read regularly until after our Bronze Age end-date of 1985. But she makes my list anyway but with a nod to those later years as an Avenger and as a member of the Fantastic Four (where I personally enjoyed her tenure as Ben's replacement after the Secret Wars or some such thing). I read the first few issues of the later John Byrne series but never warmed to it. I guess I prefer my superheroing played a bit straighter, but I appreciate what Byrne was doing. And the character is perfect for such a take. She's lasted in large part to her charm as well as to her strength. Oh, and she's smart, too! She's another great role model for young female readers.
Created by Roy Thomas and Gerry Conway; first drawn by John Buscema and Joe Sinnott
Key appearances: Fantastic Four #129-130, 148-149, 151-153, 178-184, Giant-Size Super-Stars #1, Avengers Annual #8, Marvel Two-In-One #53-58
I love Thundra! What a great character! She's sort of like Wonder Woman but with this haughty attitude -- Thundra and Red Sonja on an adventure together would be a hoot! I really enjoy the banter between Thundra and Ben Grimm -- he's such a character built for comic relief anyway, but when there's a potential suitor involved it's just uncomfortably better. I haven't read Giant-Size Super-Stars #1, but I'll vouch for all of the other issues mentioned above. The authors all wrote the character consistently, which is great. The Fantastic Four in the early Bronze Age was certainly off-beat, with Sue out of the picture for extended stretches and Medusa and Thundra with prominent roles. When I see a mag with Thundra on the cover, I know what I'm getting. And that's usually some serious butt-kicking with a laugh along the way.
Doug: So what do you think? Where did we err? What did we get right? And where o where would the female characters fit if juxtaposed with the male characters' list? Be sure to leave us a comment, and then head over to our partners' blogs, listed for you just below. Thanks for stopping by today!
Longbox Graveyard: Top 10 Super-Dogs
The Unspoken Decade: Top 10 Avengers Moments
In My Not So Humble Opinion: Top 10 Avengers Sketches
Legion Of Super-Bloggers: Top 10 Who’s Who Legion Entries
The SuperHero Satellite: Top 10 Cancelled 80s Comics Titles/Characters
Flodo’s Page: Top 10 Green Lantern Ring-Slings ...That Don’t Appear In Modern Continuity
Fantastiverse: Top 10 Avengers Greatest Super Battles
Mystery V-Log: Top 10 Avengers Covers
Idol Head Of Diablou: Top 10 Most Important Martian Manhunter Villains
Marvel Superheroes Podcast: The Top 10 Avengers (An Age of Ultron Tie-In)
Chasing Amazing: Top 10 Favorite Moments Of The "Chase"
Between The Pages: Top 10 Wackiest DC Comics Covers
Too Dangerous For A Girl!: Ten Best Super-Heroic Hairstyles
Vic Sage Via The Retroist: Top Ten Comic Character Deaths
I’m The Gun: The 10 Best All-Star Squadron Covers!
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AND... Be sure to visit the Bronze Age Babies other entries in Super Blog Team-Up:Was the Vision Really Carrying a Torch? (February 19 2014)
The Frightful Four - Are Brains Required for this Outfit? (May 21 2014)
When Friends Like These Are Your Enemies (September 24 2014)
Things Are a Little Different Around Here... (January 28 2015)
Wednesday, January 28, 2015
Super Blog Team-Up: Things Are a Little Different Around Here...
Doug: Welcome to the 5th quarterly edition of the Super Blog Team-Up, a massive collaboration across the blogosphere and podcastosphere (say what?). We're glad you've dropped in, and if you're visiting from another site and are making your inaugural journey to the Bronze Age Babies then we say "Welcome!" Don't be a stranger -- come back often and get in on the conversations. Most importantly, leave us a comment!
Doug: This time around, the topics du jour are multiverses and alternate realities. As you may or may not know, this blog is pushing six years of publishing history, so we've dealt with these sorts of things on many occasions. As you may also know (a quick peek at our masthead should have been the first clue), we're taking our annual vacation from new material and are instead featuring some classic posts from our backlog. Wanting to stay true to ourselves, then, we're going to direct our readers to a "greatest hits" series of comic book reviews that should satisfy anyone's multiversal appetite. NOTE: Feel free to leave comments either on this post or on all of the posts linked below. We have a "recent comments" widget on our sidebar that will direct visitors to today's action. NOTE #2: We've only linked you to the first issue in each storyline. You should be able to navigate through the remainder of the series by using the "You might also like" feature at the end of each post.
Memorable scene - Wanda being possessed by the Serpent Crown and flat-out talking nasty to the Vision. Vizh took out his frustrations by phasing through Hyperion's chest.
Key comment - Karen: Beast served as a mouthpiece for Englehart to make some social commentary. It would probably be considered heavy-handed now but considering where the national psyche was at in 1976, I think it fit in perfectly. "We commit the most outrageous acts...and you go right along, pretending not to notice!" Actually, much of that speech still resonates today.
Memorable scene - Alicia relates her story and asks how it is that Ben is now with her -- he assures her that he'd been in the Great Refuge with the rest of the team. Alicia is very upset, and produces a scrap of the other Thing's shirt as evidence of what she'd gone through. Ben gets an idea, and calls up Crystal on the omni-viewer. Of course Quicksilver is right by her side, and abrasive as ever. Ben brushes him off and asks Crystal for Lockjaw's services. No sooner is the connection cut than the big pooch appears. Dimension-hopping time, friends!
Key comment - Karen: This illustrates again why I have never liked Reed Richards. Besides lobotomizing his son and treating his wife like crap, he rules the FF with an iron fist! "I own 51% and controlling interest -so what I say goes" -that's just typical of Mr. Big Brain. Oh sure, it may turn out he has something up his sleeve, but he's gonna put everyone through hell before he's done.
Memorable scene - Looking through the book with a discerning eye, trying to find all of the "corrections" done to Ross Andru's art.
Key comment - Doug: I guess, looking back on what must have gone on in those smoke-filled rooms at the meetings between Stan and Carmine (and all of their other assistants), Gerry Conway did a good job with what he had. I mean, there aren't any risks at all taken here -- everyone's in their firmly entrenched characterization, neither company's character really gets the upper hand over the other's (although I'd certainly argue that Ock got the short end of the stick in the bad guy dept. -- he comes off looking pretty inept), and even the supporting casts are pretty vanilla. But I keep coming back to -- what would I have expected?
Memorable scene - The Legion is invited to the Kents for dinner while they wait for Clark to return home. Ma stuffs them with a big country spread, and suddenly Clark walks in. The team is really excited to see him, as again -- they'd thought he never existed (in spite of their own memories). But Clark's reserved, and quickly invites the Legionnaires to the basement to talk while Ma cleans up the kitchen. Clark distracts them by directing their attention to a shelving unit with statuettes of the Legion members. But while their backs are turned, Clark pulls out a device that looks like the Phantom Zone projector; instead, it's a Time-Stasis ray and freezes the teen heroes in their tracks.
Key comment - Doug: For my money, this was all very poorly imagined, executed, and bordering on plain ol' stupid. As Superboy had never existed on Earth-2, and as the Legion was going to be kept around (although from the post-Crisis onward, endlessly rebooted), I failed then and do now to see the necessity of this "housecleaning". While DC through the years has had many corners of their universe supported by rabid fan support, the Legion seemed to hold an almost cult-like loyalty among its adherents. This seems to have been a kick in the teeth and a "We don't care" from editorial toward longtime Superman and Legion of Super-Heroes fans.
Memorable scene -The Deathlok series (which ran from Astonishing Tales 25 to 36) was set in a dystopian future, ruled by corrupt military and corporate leaders. Colonel Luther Manning is killed in combat but brought back to life as a hideous cyborg (for some reason, his face always takes me back to that grade Z 50s horror flick, I Was A Teen-Age Frankenstein!) to do the dirty work of Major Simon Riker. Riker had Manning rebuilt with steel-re-inforced limbs and a computer brain. In fact, he had surgeons keep only a small portion of Manning's brain, supposedly the part that made him a brilliant tactician. However, Manning retains his personality and is able to assert dominance over the computer mind, and break free of Riker's control. In this issue, we see him working as a freelance mercenary, cutting down two men in cold-blood. The story of how he became such a ruthless killing machine is told in flashback. Deathlok was one of the first of that wave of anti-hero characters (including the Punisher, who also debuted in 1974) who would change the face of comics forever.
Key comment -This issue gives us the origin, but there would be so much more to follow. It just scratches the surface. Especially compelling was Manning's struggle to find his wife and kid - although with predictable results. The concept may not seem so novel now, but back in 1974, believe me, it was. Sure, we had The Six Million Dollar Man on TV, but Steve Austin was a pretty normal looking guy, leading an appealing life. Not so for Deathlok. I think Robocop probably owes its existence to Deathlok, and it surely has been an influence on other works.
Memorable scene - JJJ and his paper have paid the way for Dr. Doom to address the United Nations at a world conference on terrorism. Yep -- invite a totalitarian dictator and renowned terrorist himself to discuss how to bring that phenomenon to a close.
Key comment - Fred W. Hill: The Spidey strip was in the local paper my dad subscribed to, so I got to read the first few years worth of stories. Certainly fun but eventually I got bored with it, even when I was still gung ho on the montly comics. Spider-Man is much better suited for comic books than strips, IMO. Stan, however,is very wise in keeping the strip separate from what's going on in the comics -- I have a hunch that having Aunt May on the verge of death and Pete making a deal with the devil to save her at the cost of having his marriage to Mary Jane cease to have ever existed would strike most of that dying breed of regular newspaper readers as spectacularly stupid storytelling. The sort of idiocy Stan strove to avoid when he was mostly in charge of Marvel during the Silver Age.
Memorable scene - And then... things turn zanier yet. The Flash, realizing that the power of light and radiation caused a chink in Bork's armor, grabs the totem once again and begins towing it -- right into the sun! No transuit, no protective aura, nothing. Just running. Into the sun.
Key comment - Inkstained Wretch: That Bob Haney plot ... wow... just, umm, wow ... running to and from the sun? ... I am speechless...
Memorable scene - Kamandi himself is a cipher. He leaves his underground bunker (Command D -get it?) where he lived with his grandfather, to explore the world above, a world he had only known through stories and microfilm records. When he returns to his home he finds his grandfather killed by invading wolf-men. He decides to continue his explorations, but there never seems to be any rhyme or reason to his travels. He never expresses a personality beyond being something of a hot-head. There's no emotional life to the character. I'm not saying every comic character has to be a Peter Parker and cry in his beer every issue, but there has to be some sort of inner life, something going on that drives the protagonist and makes the reader take an interest in them. There's just nothing there with Kamandi. He's a blank slate. He seems to exist only as a vehicle to move from one place to another, from one idea to the next, so that different concepts can get shown off. He has no stake in anything.
Key comment - Despite all of this, I do find Kamandi oddly compelling. I'm even considering buying the second Archives edition. Part of it is just this desire to see if anything really evolves out of this beginning. There's so much potential for story-telling. But without a central character to care about, it's just so much fluff. Kamandi (the book) is like a fast food snack when it could be a great four-course meal. It's kind of fun but ultimately it doesn't satisfy. I'm hoping that later in the series it turns around and gains some substance.
Memorable scene - ...and as Wolverine sought to intervene, new team leader Storm swept him from the fray. Mad, claws drawn -- not gonna fight that way, said Ororo.
Key comment - Karen: It's interesting in this future sequence that Rachel says she's not certain that what Kate does in the past will definitely change their own time stream -it might just create a different timeline. Isn't this always the problem with time travel stories? Can you really change things?
Doug: Thanks again for coming by today. If you left a specific comment on one of our classic posts, we're grateful. But if you'd care to leave some general thoughts here on multiverses and alternate realities, we'd love to hear that as well. Come back soon, and be sure to patronize the other great blogs and podcasts in today's SBTU.
Amazing Spider-Talk/Chasing Amazing/Superior Spider-Talk: Spider-Man Reign
Chasing Amazing - The Case Against Spider-Man Reign
Superior Spider-Talk - The Case For Spider-Man Reign
Between The Pages: A Tale Of Two Cities On The Edge Of Forever
Flodo's Page: The Ballad of Two Green Lanterns
The Idol-Head of Diabolu Podcast: Martian Manhunter Multiversity
In My Not So Humble Opinion: The Many Worlds of Tesla Strong
The Legion of Super-Bloggers: Star Trek/Legion of Super-Heroes
Longbox Graveyard: X-Men #141 & 142: Days of Future Past
The Marvel Super Heroes Podcast (i.e. part of Rolled Spine Podcast): Epic Comics’ Doctor Zero
Superhero Satellite: Marvel Comics' Star Comics Line: “Licensed Reality and Parallel Properties”
Ultraverse Network:Altered Reality: The Ultraverse Before and After Black September
The Unspoken Decade (2 posts):The Ghost in the Machine: Robocop versus Terminator
...and: 5 Batmen, 1 Superman, ZERO HOUR
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