Who's The Best... Fantastic Four Substitute?

Martinex1: Over the years The Fantastic Four has not had as large a revolving door as other super-teams like the Avengers, but they have had their share of substitutes.   I have a particular fondness for the FF reserves as they are in a truly elite class.   The proxies are not the typical heroes or heroines either, as they tend to reside slightly outside the mainstream.  In your opinion, does one or the other rise above the rest?  Are any better than the originals?   So who is the best?  

Crystal the Elemental, Medusa the Inhuman,  Luke Cage; Power-Man,  Ms. Marvel the She-Thing, Ant-Man, She-Hulk or even much more recently Black Panther, Storm, or Spider-Man?   Who was the best?

Dressed for Success... Fashion Accessories

Martinex1:  A good tailor is hard to come by.   A good spandex-sewing, color-coordinating, underwear-on-the-outside fashion designer is impossible to find.     What is the worst super-hero fashion accessory?  What makes you scratch your head and say, “Who the heck thought that looked good”?  Help the heroes so they don’t stumble on the red carpet.  

Why does Dum Dum wear a bowler?   Do you know why Cap has tiny wings on his head?   Should the Dazzler ditch the disco ball?   And does Ms. Marvel have a sore throat; what’s with the scarf?   All that and more today as we look at four color fashion faux pas!

BAB Classic: The Most Appalling Comic You Ever Read

NOTE: This post was originally published on February17, 2012

Karen: We usually discuss comics we like here. Sure, we may come across a dud now and then, but all in all, we like what we read. But I came across a story so appalling recently, that I thought I would throw open a discussion of comics that you may have read that you found revolting. I'm not necessarily talking about graphics that sicken you, but rather a storyline that you found morally reprehensible. The book that spurred me to write this post was Gunhawks #1, from 1972. I'm not a Western comics fan, but this issue was included in Marvel Firsts: The 70s, volume 1 trade paperback. It's the story of a pair of youths, one black, one white, who both fought in the Civil War -on the Southern side! There's this rambling soliloquy by the black character, Reno Jones, that just turned my stomach.

Reno: You see, not all the plantation owners were cruel masters with whips and chains! The man who owned me, for instance--he was a good man--treated me like a son--clothed me--educated me!...My mother was the chief cook in the mansion, and the kid's father had me tutored right along with his own son...It was a happy life! There was never any mention of slavery...and all the blacks there came and went as they pleased...in addition to being paid for their work!
Karen: I don't know if it is willful ignorance at work here, revisionism, or some terrible attempt at putting a different spin on things, but whatever it is, it's horrible. I couldn't read any more of this crap. While I am sure some slave owners were less brutal than others, the fact of the matter is, they owned people. There's not much you can do to justify that or pretty it up. Black slaves did not have an idyllic life! What's even more odd about this tale is that it appeared in 1972 -the same year we got Luke Cage, Hero for Hire! Black culture was everywhere and yet we get this apologist drivel. It was written by Gary Friedrich, drawn by Syd Shores, and edited by Roy Thomas, and I think they all should have known better.

Karen: Another title that comes to mind in this category is the much-maligned Avengers #200, where Ms. Marvel is mysteriously impregnated, gives birth in three days, is later revealed to have been mind-controlled into having sex with her assailant (ie. raped), and then at the end goes off with her rapist to live happily ever after. Her fellow Avengers act like a bunch of twits and let her go, even though they know she had been mind controlled. Fortunately Chris Claremont stepped in with Avengers Annual# 10 a bit later and thoroughly chastised the Avengers (and by default, the creative team on Avengers #200).

Karen: Are there any comics you've read that have made you feel appalled?

UPDATE - Doug: Although it's almost four years since this post originally ran, I thought I'd bring it forward for the purpose of adding to Karen's original question. For Christmas I received a hardcover copy of Captain America: Forever Allies, which reprints the four-issue mini-series of the same name as well as the Young Allies Comics 70th Anniversary Special and a full reprint of Young Allies Comics #1 from 1941. It's the latter that struck a major chord with me.

Doug: Roger Stern, author of the 2010 mini-series, took great pains to right a wrong perpetrated in America for much of its history, and that is the portrayal of Blacks in popular culture. Of note are the caricatures of Blacks that permeated print media from the early 20th century. The images below come from that Young Allies comic, and are of "Whitewash" Jones:

Doug: You'll note that Jones exists solely as the butt of jokes. He is a bumbling oaf, scared of a challenge, and superstitious. When he is successful it is an accident. He is rarely portrayed as a fighter, usually kept in the background. Likewise, the antagonists pay little attention to him. He is a non-person as a character in Young Allies Comics #1.

Doug: If you have time today, I'd like you to take a jump to the Marvel Wiki page for Washington Carver Jones, a member of the Young Allies -- but more than that, retconned to be a member of the Tuskegee Airmen and a WWII hero. The wiki page basically summarizes the Forever Allies mini-series; I think Stern's treatment certainly serves him better. And here is the art to prove it:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/15659/1909265-washington_jones_caricature_captain_america_forever_allies_1.jpg

Doug: And by the way, a 'thank you' to Edo Bosnar for heartily recommending the Stern Young Allies book. It was a fun read overall, and very nicely rendered. I enjoyed it (until the end of the book, that is...). I will finish by saying that Marvel did the right thing by not hiding from their history. That editorial chose to include the racist literature alongside the revisionist treatment served the new material -- it brought to light our negative past and treated the subject with dignity. I commend the folks at Disney Company and Marvel Entertainment for owning this.

Guest Post - If I Had a Buck... Sheroes

Mike S. (aka Martinex1) is back again today with another of his $1 Challenges. We've had some fun in the past with these (click that link you just passed to check out his other posts), and I'm sure we'll get some good conversation again today. Thanks, Mike!

Sheroes.   The Super Heroine $1 Shopping Spree.
 

Mike S.: Here we go again. We are taking a trip to the ever changing, ever evolving comic store with only loose change in our pocket. It is time for another round of “If I Had A Buck…” This time around, the spinner rack selection has only heroines, superwomen, and female champions from which to choose.

There has been much talk in the comic industry recently about the attempt to reach female readers and to embrace strong female protagonists. There are numerous titles on the stands today with women headliners and that is a good thing. The cinematic Marvel universe has yet to create an A list film for a heroine. Earlier endeavors in the cinema with Red Sonja, Elektra, Catwoman, and Supergirl starring were less than stellar. Recently some of the Marvel films have established strong women in team efforts with Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, and Gamora. And there is great anticipation around the Ms. Marvel solo film. Hopefully someday we will see the Wasp, Tigra, Valkyrie, Batwoman, Raven, Huntress, and others on the silver screen.

In comics, Wonder Woman was always the grandmother of all heroines. Her costume is iconic and she ranks as a great character in a pantheon alongside Batman and Superman. Her comic has endured in one form or another for many decades, she was the subject of a successful live action television show, and she will be reappearing on film soon (hopefully arriving in her invisible jet). Honestly, I never read much Wonder Woman until George Perez took over the creative control in the 1980s, but always recognized her stature particularly in the JLA.

The late 70s brought to Marvel Comic fans an array of female headliners that have definitely stood the test of time.  Many of these characters were initially derivatives of their male counterparts and were used to shore up marketing trademarks and licenses. But characters like Spider Woman, She-Hulk, and Ms. Marvel have evolved with distinct personalities, traits, and conflicts. There have been many compelling takes on these characters over the years.

Spider-Woman’s initial series ran for fifty issues, which is no small feat. She starred in a Saturday morning cartoon show as well.  The comic established Jessica Drew’s uniqueness (despite her derivative name) with her base of operations on the West Coast, with a bizarre cast of villains who had horror leanings, and a rather convoluted and evolving origin. Her series had her battle weirdos like the Brothers Grimm, Daddy Longlegs, and Gypsy Moth. She teamed regularly and also fought against the Werewolf By Night. In her introduction, she was evolved from a spider (though that origin quickly changed) and she emitted an odor or creepiness that turned people off. Today she is a consistent star in the Avengers titles and continues to grow in a new solo series.

She-Hulk likewise went through many iterations. She started off with a very lame origin of a blood transfusion from her cousin Bruce Banner; her initial series was fairly mundane. John Byrne advanced her character in his run on the Fantastic Four and in a new solo title in which the heroine regularly broke the fourth wall and had many humorous adventures and interludes. Her most recent solo title is critically acclaimed as it focuses on Jennifer’s legal expertise and relationships.

Throughout the last five decades Marvel advanced many diverse female characters in their team books and solo titles. In my opinion these characters were just as compelling as their male counterparts and often drove very interesting stories with complex characterizations and problems. The list includes but is not limited to:  The Cat, Moondragon, Mantis, Thundra, Firestar, Aleta, Nikki, Tigra, Snowbird, Aurora, Hellcat, Valkyrie, Darkstar, Sif, Medusa, Crystal, Nova, Jocasta, Sheena, Storm, Kitty Pride, Dazzler, Dagger, Rogue, Marionette, and Songbird. Some fared better than others over time. Marvel also established some memorable female villains in Black Cat, Deathbird, Typhoid Mary, Moonstone, Mystique, White Queen, Destiny, Morgan LeFay, Madame Masque, Nebula, and of course Dark Phoenix.  

Over at DC, we saw Fire, Ice, Dove, Power Girl, Huntress, Oracle, Black Canary, Supergirl, Catwoman, Hawkgirl, Jesse Quick, Batgirl, and many others.

 So today, in this discussion there are nine titles to choose from, with nine female leads (I cheated a little to get Thundra in play), and only $1.00 to spend. I am curious what you would buy if there were only female characters on the spinner rack.

But even more importantly, I am curious what you think about the many heroines. Who are your favorites? What stories are worth reading? Who has better offerings in this category, Marvel or DC? Who would you like to see more of and should have their own series? Who should lead a team? Who would you like to see get a solo movie? 

And as always, have fun! Here is the list:

The Daring New Adventures of Supergirl #7; $0.60

Dazzler #8; $0.50

Huntress #8; $1.00 (Yeah, I know you would have to spend all of your money, but that is a cool Staton cover!)

Marvel Chillers featuring Tigra The Were-Woman #5; $0.25

Marvel Two-In-One #56 starring Thundra; $0.40 (That punch had to put it on the list!)

Ms. Marvel #21; $0.35

Savage She-Hulk #10; $0.50 (with a Michael Golden cover!)

Spider-Woman #32; $0.50

Wonder Woman #5; $0.75

Hooking the Reader, Only to Fizzle?

Doug: For my 49th birthday, which was 10 days ago, my in-laws got me a $20 Barnes and Noble gift card. I'm usually an Amazon kind of guy, because I feel their prices are better. But of course I took the plunge and snagged a used (although when it arrived it was as new as new can be) copy of Super-Villains Unite: The Complete Super-Villain Team-Up for $16. Thumbing through the book (which is thick -- I got a great deal) I was struck with how below-average the art was in the series. Lots of not-so-good Herb Trimpe, some really early Keith Giffen that is baaaaaad, etc. But the first appearance before the ongoing was actually in Giant-Size Super-Villain Team-Up #1. It featured two reprints, but the framing story was drawn by Big John Buscema. For the second G-S issue, DC guys Mike Sekowsky and Jack Abel turned in the pictures. While obviously a couple of notches below JB, it was serviceable. When the series finally began in 25c form the first issue featured George Tuska and the second Sal Buscema. So really, to get this ball rolling there was some pretty solid art. But as I said, it devolved quickly.

Doug: All this got me to thinking -- Marvel seemed to have a "hook" artist at the beginning of many of their 1970s start-ups. But did that last? Did the series (of course most of them barely made it past a second year of circulation) continue to deliver? Let's stick to the John Buscema theme for a minute. Below are the covers to three other series that Buscema was tapped to kick off: Ms. Marvel, Nova, and She-Hulk.

Doug: Obviously John Romita provided the cover for Ms. Marvel #1, and Rich Buckler and Joe Sinnott did the honors on Nova. Big John penciled the She-Hulk book. For the record, Buscema stuck around for three issues on Ms. Marvel, two on Nova (before giving way to his brother, Sal), and only penciled the inaugural issue of She-Hulk. I'm not going to denigrate the work of guys like Mike Vosburg, but let's be honest -- he isn't JB! And as I said above, each of these books petered out around the 25th issue.

Doug: So what else? Marvel had tried to get an Inhumans series going earlier in Amazing Adventures. It lasted around 10 issues before the second attempt was made a few years later. It should have succeeded -- during its short life, the book featured pencils by George Perez, Gil Kane, and Keith Pollard. Perez, young and green, handled five of the first eight issues. But Kane's style is such a stark contrast to that of Perez, was that a factor in perhaps driving readers away? Hard to say. Another book in which Kane was involved was the Champions. Maybe this book had other issues involving the writing and/or hero line-up, but covers by Kane, Ron Wilson, and Rich Buckler couldn't save the book from the interiors of Don Heck and George Tuska (in fairness, both past their prime). 

Doug: So speaking of interiors, one of the great mysteries of short-lived series in the Bronze Age is the survival of The Invaders. From the get-go Frank Robbins was on duty (often inked by Frank Springer) -- to say Robbins' art is not to my liking would be an understatement. I've read his scripting on the Batman books -- I absolutely have no problem at all with him as a writer. But I have a struggle each time I try to read books he penciled. To further confound the Invaders problem, the series enjoyed wonderful covers by John Romita (I'm featuring the second issue, as I'd shown the first issue's cover a few weeks ago) and then an extended run by Jack Kirby. Many have said that Kirby should have done the interiors as well. By the way, the fifth issue, penciled by Rich Buckler, was a treat.

Doug: What do the readers say? I guess we're talking about a subject that comes up then and again -- covers vs. interior art and also the major issue of short-lived series -- the often-revolving creator carousel. And what's your opinion on those first-issue artists? I was surprised at how many kick-offs John Buscema shepherded us through. Was he editorial's go-to guy? Was he the Bronze Age's Jack Kirby, in terms of "if we want this to be good and get off the ground, Big John has to do it"? Do you think these series had a focus, or were they merely to take up shelf space in order to cut into DC's market share? Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Guest Post - Inaugural Post: If I Had a Buck...

Doug: Boy, does Martinex1 have a cool topic for you today, kids! About two weeks ago a few emails landed in the BAB inbox with the title "The $1 Challenge". Unfortunately, I was too busy initially to give them a once-over. But when the time presented itself, I was asking "What the heck was I waiting for??" I hope today's going to be a fun conversation -- and we have a few more of these in the queue for our later amusement. Here we go.

Mike S.:One of my favorite topics on the BAB site is the “This Cover Made Me Buy This Book” feature. It never ceases to surprise me how much good conversation and memories can be generated from a single cover.  I have a slight variation on that approach, with a little game I call, “If I Had A Buck…” Back when I was a kid, I would scrimp and save, do extra chores for allowances, and work at my paper route just to have a little extra change (used mostly to buy comics, Slurpees, and candy). There were so many instances when I went to the local drug store that I said to myself, “If only I had a dollar; if I had a buck I would buy FILL IN THE BLANK”. A nickel was often the difference in being able to buy two, three, or four comics.  Should I get the Annual, or two of the “Still Only 25 Cent” issues? How do I mix or match to get the most out of my money? I would have loved to buy everything on the rack, but that was impossible.  

So this game that I propose is a mixture of history, cover art, an alternate world, and a little money. Let’s start with some history…

Carol Danvers has been a part of Marvel’s cast of characters for nearly fifty years, making her 1968 debut in Marvel Super Heroes #13 as an Air Force officer in charge of security and a foil to the original Captain Marvel.  Her persona has evolved much over the years, from a magazine editor to an Avenger, from Ms. Marvel to Binary to Warbird to Captain Marvel, from a legacy type character to a heroine currently more popular than her namesake.

In 1977, she first headlined her own title, Ms. Marvel, in a mostly forgettable and relatively short lived run. The series attempted to add a feminist character to the Marvel ranks. The modern approach may have been initially short circuited by clichés and a peekaboo costume. Following Gerry Conway’s intro, Chris Claremont took over writing duties with the third issue and shepherded the series through its finale.  Along the way Carol evolved into a true headliner with a lot of nuance, a compelling voice, and layered tales that set a foundation for the character’s decades of action.

But it is the art of this series that intrigues me. For so few issues (23 in all), the title seemed to tap into every available talent. The interiors were penciled by John Buscema in the first issues, Jim Mooney in the most issues, and intermittently by Keith Pollard, Sal Buscema, Carmine Infantino, Dave Cockrum, and Mike Vosburg. I am sure that inconsistency may have played into Ms. Marvel’s lack of longevity, but at least it was top notch along the way.

The cover art for the series was phenomenal and had an even broader list of creators  I counted nine different cover artists for the book (in alphabetical order): John Buscema, Sal Buscema, Dave Cockrum, Ed Hannigan, Al Milgrom,  John Romita,  John Romita Jr., Jim Starlin, and Ron Wilson. In my opinion this book had some of the best action covers of that era. The design benefitted from the flaming logo, the action oriented corner box, costume designs, colors, and of course that headliner talent.

So here is the question I have for all of you: If you had a dollar (and only one dollar) and walked into my alternate world corner store where the spinner rack had only nine issues of Ms. Marvel (the nine issues listed below), which would you purchase and why? And please note that some comics have 30 cent price points while others are at 35 cents; you can buy three but possibly not all three of your favorites.

So one hero, one title, nine covers, nine creators, and one dollar…

Ms. Marvel #1  John Romita cover

Ms. Marvel #3  Al Milgrom cover

Ms. Marvel #5 Ed Hannigan cover

Ms. Marvel #8 Ron Wilson cover

Ms. Marvel #10 Sal Buscema cover

Ms. Marvel #12 Jim Starlin cover

Ms. Marvel #13 John Romita Jr. cover

Ms. Marvel #15 John Buscema cover

Ms. Marvel #16  Dave Cockrum cover

I selected covers not only that matched the varied talent, but that I thought had a luring appeal. I would love to read your thoughts on Ms. Marvel, the series, the art, the stories, her history, character changes, and the covers.  Open the floodgates. Maybe next time I will make the game more challenging with more titles, artists, and price breaks. I will jump in later and share the issues I bought and my reasoning. Cheers all!