Discuss: Captain America: Civil War - FULLY SPOILED!!

CIVIL WAR: FULLY SPOILED EDITION!!
WARNING: SPOILERS AHEAD!!!

Karen: That's right kids, it's time to discuss this blockbuster, no-holds-barred, say what you will! First up, me and my co-host Doug are going to get things rolling with our thoughts on the film, and then it's up to you to keep it going.

Karen: My overall impression of the the film is that I enjoyed it, but it does seem a bit over-stuffed. Somehow, despite all of the characters and places and plot threads, it still feels like Captain America's story is the core of the film, but there is an awful lot of other stuff going on around that.

Doug: I enjoyed it too, but I am having guilt feelings because I didn't walk out of the theater giddy as I was when I saw The Avengers, or Captain America: the First Avenger or Captain America: Winter Soldier. I think Civil War ultimately makes my top 5 MCU films, but I can't put my finger on exactly why I haven't had puppy love butterflies. It is a dense film with tons of characters, as you say, but I didn't ever feel that the film was hampered by that. If anything, it seemed to effectively serve the purpose of the plot.

Karen: I hear you. I wasn't as pumped up at the end of this one either, but I think that's natural - we've just seen our heroes torn apart. It's not a happy ending. Maybe it's a bit like that feeling from when we first saw The Empire Strikes Back - everything has fallen apart and how are our heroes going to recover? Well, we know they will somehow get back together to face Thanos for The Infinity War.

Doug: Agreed. I've also seen the Russos refer to this pic as their "Empire...", and there is that sense of uncertainty at the end of this. I'm thinking the first Infinity War movie (or whatever they are going to call it) is going to be a major butt-kicking. My guess is that it will be the darkest film of the MCU.

Karen: The conflict -whether or not to sign the Accords, to accept the authority of the world's governments, or to keep their autonomy - is clouded by the issue of Bucky and his guilt or innocence in the Vienna bombing (and later, his assassination of the Starks). I sort of wish they'd kept Bucky out of the whole thing and kept the discord about the whether or not to sign the accords, and maybe the idea that they were holding some superhumans against their will (like Wanda). But I suppose they needed to resolve the Winter Soldier storyline, and grafting that onto Civil War worked out.

Doug: It did work out, and I viewed the Vienna incident as the last straw that pushed everything over the edge. One element from the Accords and Bucky storylines being mashed together was the character trait of loyalty in Captain America - loyalty to freedom (or his interpretation of it) and to Bucky. However, and we've said this before, there is no sense of history between Cap and Bucky in the MCU as there is in the comics. This would have played out much better in the comics because of what we knew for decades. To try to make us care from one film to the next is a bit of a hefty request.

Karen: I think they've done a decent enough job of establishing Bucky as Cap's best buddy -but it kind of bothers me, as I think that's the role the Falcon should have!

Doug: There is sometimes a sense of "Captain America and the Falcon", isn't there? Oh, and loved Redwing -- when Sam first used the device I was thinking to myself, "Hmm, just like Redwing would do." And I was right!

Doug: I'd also argue that Wanda's role in the fall-out of the Crossbones battle (by the way - very cool, and loved Crossbones) might have played better in an X-Men picture. The doubt of the nature of her powers and her ability/lack of ability to control them seems to fit in better with anti-mutant hysteria. Of course, she's a Hydra construct now, right? In regard to the Accords, they sort of just drop, don't they? Sure, there's been some history through the past few MCU movies, but there's really no tension in this film as "Thunderbolt" Ross shows up and boom! Sokovia Accords.

Karen: It's interesting that they chose to bring Thunderbolt Ross back as the agent for the Accords. Yes, there wasn't much warning that they were coming, but considering what happened in Sokovia, and perhaps more likely, how badly  the politicians would want to control the kind of power the Avengers have, it's no surprise. 

Doug: Ross was perhaps a stand-in for Henry Peter Gyrich. Maybe his inclusion was part of an effort to legitimize that second Hulk film.

Karen: Regarding the two camps, the leaders in both cases aren't seeing things straight. Cap is blinded by his friendship for, and guilt over, Bucky. He's willing to do anything for him.  He also has a huge distrust of authority since coming out of the ice, after the incidents in Avengers and Winter Soldier. So it's not surprising that he doesn't think it's a great idea to allow the most powerful fighting force on Earth to be directed by a group of politicians. As he says in the film, "What if they want to send us somewhere we shouldn't go? Or they won't let us go somewhere we should?" However, he never tries to work with anyone. When Bucky is in trouble, he just goes off and does his thing.

Doug: The whole "Cap's survivor guilt" is overplayed. While the guilt over surviving the larger War is one thing, guilt and loss over Bucky seems a bit of a stretch. Again, we don't have the longer backstory of not only the War years but of Cap's early years after his revival from suspended animation as we do in the comics. This is one I have a tough time separating and enjoying as an aspect of the MCU. You mention Cap as a loner. I did enjoy the first scene of the film. It's obvious that Cap has trained these Avengers, not unlike he did in the Kooky Quartet era. Fun stuff! 

Karen: I always think of part of Cap's guilt over  Bucky in the MCU as being his feeling of guilt over what Bucky was turned into -a mindless assassin. If he had been able to save him, none of this -the years of working for Hydra, and all of the crimes and murders he committed -would have occurred. So Cap feels responsible for Bucky's actions, in his own way.

Karen: As for Stark, he is at one of his lowest points. He has split from Pepper, seemingly due to his need to be Iron Man. He's wracked with guilt over the death and damage he's caused by his arrogance. He's ready to hand the reins over to someone else. Downey plays Tony Stark as a man on the edge -he appears about to crack many times in the film, and when he discovers the Winter Soldier killed his parents, he really does, quite effectively.

Doug: For the first time in six films, I felt empathy toward Tony Stark. Prior to that, he was just sort of a rich jerk who I couldn't relate to. You know, I saw some criticism online of the computer generated Stark family scene. I loved it. I thought that really added to the characterization of Tony Stark, and to the greater MCU. While not directly mentioned, it did bring Hank Pym's comment in Ant-Man about Howard Stark into the light. I also found myself not caring for Bucky Barnes by the end of the film. Brainwashing or not, he's going to need some rehabilitation in order to bring me back.

Karen: Both Howard and Tony have huge egos and just always think they are right. The scene in the Raft prison, where Tony walks in and Hawkeye says derisively, "The Futurist! He knows what's best for you!" really nails it. In Tony's mind, everything he does, whether it's building Ultron or signing the Accords, is the best possible path. But Tony has miscalculated a lot over the years. 

Karen: Now Tony finally admits that maybe he isn't always right -but once he decides the Avengers should sign the Accords, he can't see the other side of it. Although he desperately wants Cap to side with him. And of course, by the end, he's taking matters into his own hands again, breaking the Accords to help Steve, at least briefly.

Karen: I thought most of the other characters got at least one good moment, if not several. I am more and more impressed with Black Widow -she truly deserves her own film. Her moves in the opening action sequence manage to be both graceful and brutal! It's amazing. And I appreciate the fine line she walks between Tony and Steve.

Doug: I'm really unsure what to make of the use of Giant-Man. On the one hand, "Heck yeah!!" But then it seemed as if he moved in slow motion the entire scene, which really made the character less than formidable. But there were some cool visuals, like grabbing and holding Rhodey by the legs, and breaking off and swinging the airplane wing. And speaking of cool visuals, how about the Vision phasing into Wanda's room near the beginning of the movie? That brought a big smile to my face. I liked the way the Vision was portrayed and thought he got some great screen time. Hawkeye seemed a bit short-changed -- and even when he had the chance to call himself "Hawkeye", he said "My name is Clint." Why run from it?

Karen: I figured you would love the Giant-Man sequence! Yes, he moved a bit slowly, but I think it heightens the sense of his size. I loved Paul Rudd laughing maniacally when he grew! And everyone freaking out about it! It was just perfect. There was the right mix of serious and light-hearted in this fight. 

Doug: Maybe my reservations about the movie lay in a line of dialogue during the big airport battle. When the Widow and Hawkeye engaged hand-to-hand, they fell to the ground and Natasha remarked, "We're still friends, right?" Well that seemed from then on like it was really stupid and unnecessary. And I had to wonder -- actually I hoped -- if everyone was pulling their punches.

Karen: I sort of assumed there would be a lot holding back -these people are friends or at least co-workers. I didn't believe they would be trying to kill one another. Well, except for Black Panther. He definitely was. What did you think of how he looked, and how Chadwick Boseman played him? I thought it was spot on. 

Karen: Of course, you know I love me some Vision, and I was immensely pleased with the direction they took with our android Avenger in this film. He's logical, he's measured -and he's also undeniably falling for Wanda. I just wonder though if it will be reciprocated?

Doug: Vision cooking was priceless. And speaking of Vizh, am I wrong that the only time we see his density increase is when Wanda manipulates his mass and makes him sink? We saw flight and phasing, but I don't recall the ol' "hard as a diamond" schtick.

Karen: I don't know about another example of his super-heavy form, but his hard as a diamond form was used when Giant-Man kicked a bus at Panther and Vision just stood there in front of it and it shredded around him. That was quick but awesome. Really, he's so powerful, he could handle most of Cap's team himself.

Doug: I guess that went right past me. That airport scene, once it lands on YouTube, will be one replayed for the ages. Sort of like the Thor/Hulk battle in The Avengers and the elevator scene in Winter Soldier.

Doug: So back to the Panther. He was just another in a long line of "gettin' it right" from these MCU creators. I mean, go back to Tuesday's characterization question... Can you think of an egregious "miss" in the MCU? Sure, they're for the most part playing these characters as their Ultimate universe selves. but we continue to come to them the first time "knowing" them. I really liked the Panther costume, and didn't mind that it was made of vibranium -- for all I know, that's true in today's comics. No clue. But the bullet-proof capability, coupled with his speed and agility (by the way, the motorcycle chase scene was a bit far-fetched, even for comics -- the Flash wasn't the one running, you know) make him a very special hero.

Karen: With Panther, I think we got the regal character we expected, whose rage was held simmering below the surface. I just hope we get to see some of his genius intellect next time around. I hope they don't drop that aspect of the character. Spidey was another delight.For once, he felt like a teenager. Was Spidey essential to the story? No, not at all. But I loved how he was portrayed, I liked how he and Stark played off each other, and I'm looking forward to the Spider-Man film with Marvel at the wheel.

Doug: I totally concur on all things Spider-Man, from the lack of necessity to the plot to Stark's rapport with Peter (and with May). I  made a comment on our spoiler-free post last week that this Aunt May is the age she really always should have been. Really, if Stan Lee and Steve Ditko had wanted a frail old woman in Peter's life as an ongoing (and ongoing...) plot device, then he should have been raised by his grandma or great-grandma. Like I said, two of my aunts are only around 12 years older than I, and two others are only slightly younger than my parents. If you reflect on May's depiction in even the earliest issues of Amazing Spider-Man, she has to be in her late 70s. For a 15-year old kid, that's not his aunt. Loved the new costume, the CGI eyes, and the banter. Absolutely smiled out loud (you know what I mean) when Spidey was criticized (by Falcon?) for talking too much during a fight. The display of Peter's strength and agility against much older adversaries was a superb showcase of what is to come. I really can't wait for the reboot to land; everyone knows I'm on record for not liking Andrew Garfield -- looking forward to this breath of fresh air.

Doug: Baron Zemo. Many have complained that he was a wasted villain, or not necessary to the plot. I think an underlying theme in the film was manipulation. And truth, too. The Avengers have been manipulated by Loki, Ultron, Crossbones, and Zemo. They keep being forced into situations where choices need to be made, and generally with consequences that fall outside what our heroes would normally morally choose. So Zemo was, in my opinion, an able catalyst. Granted, he took some chances and got lucky (movie lucky, comic book lucky) that Cap and Bucky followed him to Siberia. Iron Man following them -- calculated or lucky? It's an old trope -- having one's enemies destroy themselves. Zemo nearly pulled it off.

Karen: I just don't know why they bother calling him Zemo -he has nothing to do with the original villain. That does annoy me a little. But not enough to matter when it comes to my overall enjoyment of the film. I guess I was just hoping that 'Zemo' would have some greater connection to the Marvel universe. But you make a good point -why is it that these heroes are so readily manipulated? And what does that imply when we consider that Thanos is on the way? In comics, heroes are mostly reactive, while villains are the ones initiating action. It's much the same in the films, but the heroes seem to be easily worked into bad situations.

Doug: No hood, no Adhesive X, no Zemo as far as I'm concerned. But again, I thought as a plot point the character's presence was fine.

Karen: I also felt there were deeper machinations at work: what was it that Howard Stark had in his car that the Winter Solider took from him? It looked like five bags of some sort of blue-colored plasma. This was  apparently then given to the Russian soldiers to create more winter soldiers. Was this another version of the super soldier formula that SHIELD was working on? Will we ever learn more about that?

Doug: My assumption was that it was a replication of the Super-Soldier serum. Say, did you count the dead Soviets (man, that sounds like a name for a punk band) in the last scene? Did Zemo indeed slay them all? I was thinking that we might have had the opportunity for the Soviet Super-Soldiers in a future Winter Soldier standalone flick.

 Karen: I did count, and it looked to me like we started with five, and ended with five -dead. So I think all of them are dead -at least the ones we saw. But hey, who knows -maybe one will be revived as Deathlok? Oh wait -they already made a super-lame version on the Agents of SHIELD TV show.

Karen: And here's a silly thought: Was having Wanda in a green outfit at the beginning of the movie a tip of the hat to her first appearance in X-Men #4, where the Scarlet Witch was in a green costume on the cover? OK, probably not, but these are the things that rattle through my brain.

Doug: You scientists are so detail oriented. How'd you pick up on that? I got nuthin'. But then, that will give me something to look for if I see the film again. After this discussion, I think I'm even a little more amped for it than when we began. And I'm really anticipating everyone else's views in our comments section.

Karen: Me too, so let's get throw it over to everyone else! And hey, Humanbelly -Bob C. says he's going to revoke your Marvel Nerd card if you haven't seen Civil War by now, so for your sake, I sure hope you can report in!

Discuss: Captain America: Civil War- SPOILER-FREE EDITION!!

Karen: OK, it's here. Please share your general reactions and thoughts, SPOILER FREE, kids - that means avoiding major plot points and not ruining the film for those who won't be seeing it opening weekend. In a week we'll post the "fully spoiled" edition.

Karen: Along with your comments, I'd like you to answer two questions: Whose side were you on before you saw Civil War -and whose side were you on after you saw it?

Panther on the Prowl -First Pics from Captain America:Civil War

Karen: Pictures have popped up on the web from the Berlin set of Captain America:Civil War that show a stunt performer in the Black Panther costume for the first time. Granted, this is not necessarily the final costume as we'll see it in the film, but it looks pretty good. The photos below are from an article at IGN. What do you think?

Fantastic Fail

Karen: I went into the theater to see Fantastic Four having read the reviews, knowing Rotten Tomatoes had the film at a 9% rating, and so I was not expecting anything. That's not true -I expected it to be terrible. And it wasn't, not entirely -the first part of the film was actually somewhat interesting, as the characters were introduced and the story began. But things went awry mid-way and really fell apart in the last 20 minutes or so. All the talk about how the studio had come in and taken the film out of director Josh Trank's hands and performed many reshoots was obviously true, as there were many shifts, thematically and stylistically. Were the reshoots for the better or worse? Who knows. As it stands the film is a mess, but I don't think it is is deserving of the 9% rating -but I couldn't give it a 'thumbs up' either. 

Karen: I realize it is based on Ultimate Fantastic Four, a comic series I never read. That's probably part of the reason it feels so little like the Fantastic Four to me. For much of the film it could be a generic science fiction film, and while that film might be mildly entertaining, that's not what I want to see when I go to see a Fantastic Four movie.

Karen: None of the characters are particularly likable or compelling. There's no chemistry between any of them -maybe between the very young Reed and Ben. Otherwise, everything feels cold and detached.

Karen: This film gets Dr. Doom even worse than the previous two Fox films, which I would have thought impossible. Honestly, if Marvel gets the rights back to the FF, I think it would be for the best if they avoided using Doom in the first film. He's as played out as Lex Luthor is in Superman films...

Karen: The film is already considered a huge bomb, but it's by no means clear that Fox won't try again, and hang on to the rights. I'd still love to see Marvel get the rights, but this feud between Marvel and Fox seems unlikely to end soon. I can see Fox hanging on almost out of spite.

Karen: If you saw the film, what did you think? Do you think critics are being too harsh? And here's a question: if Marvel Studios got the film rights to the FF back, what would be the best way to incorporate them into the movie universe?

Discuss: Ant-Man! And, Spoil It All You Want!

Karen: OK, the movie has been out for nearly a week -go ahead and discuss it freely (that includes SPOILERS)!

Doug: We'll start, as we have in the past with some banter lifted over to this site from some email exchanges we've shared in the past few days. Obviously then you follow (for those of you who have seen the flick) with agreements and disagreements of your own. Again, if you've not seen the film and don't want to know about it, then get the heck out of here now!

Doug: Going to see Ant-Man at 1:30 on Monday (7/20/15). My oldest son saw it today (7/18/15). He liked it; says it has a good sense of humor. Said the two end of credits scenes were big.

Karen: We saw Ant-Man yesterday (7/18/15) and I enjoyed it. I wasn’t expecting much nor was I that excited about it but it was a fun film. I’d probably give it a solid B. They managed to make shrinking look cool. I agree with your boy, the two credit scenes were really good!

Doug: I just saw it and loved it! It's not better than either of the Avengers or either of the Cap films, but I think I enjoyed it more than Iron Man 3. Shoot -- if you melded the two Thor films together you'd get one great Thor film. So I'd rank this right in the thick of the Marvel Studios pictures.

Doug: Loved the humor in the film. I think Marvel is onto something with Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant-Man. Not that I'm saying all of their films should be borderline comedies, but it's a refreshing sort of humor -- not fall-flat humor like they attempt with the annoying lab asst. in the Thor movies.

Karen: I really enjoyed it as well. I liked that it was light and fun, that it didn't take itself seriously yet didn't spoof the material. It walked a fine line, knowing how to work the humor of the premise and yet not turn the whole thing into a joke. One of the trailers we got with it was for "Batman v. Superman" and I kept returning to the contrast between the two. Frankly, I like some humor in my super-hero films. They're people in costumes with super-powers running around doing fantastic things -there should be some light moments!

Doug: The Special effects were good, and I just loved the final battle in the play room. It really evoked some of the Dick Sprang Batman comics. I thought the effects folks did a nice job of giving off the idea that Scott Lang was really shrinking and growing, rather than disappearing and reappearing.

Karen: One thing they did very well was convince me how neat shrinking powers are. I never thought I would say that. The rapid-fire shrinking and growing were brilliantly executed, and the scenes from the ant-sized perspective were fantastic. I nearly came out of my seat during the trip to "sub-atomica" or however you want to call it. That was extremely well done, just like something out of the comics. In fact, I wonder if they didn't look at some Kirby or Ditko books to get that right!

Doug: I loved the scene with the Wasp, and am already looking forward to the new Wasp. Easily Stan Lee's best cameo. Hilarious. And hey -- did I spy Garrett Morris? I sure think I did! Did you have the one cop as Julius from "Remember the Titans"?

 Karen: The flashback to the scene with the original Ant-Man and Wasp was just wonderful, even if we only got to see them briefly. I love the idea of these heroes existing prior to Iron Man and the others. And we do have the promise of a Wasp in the future...

Garrett Morris' cameo was inspired! I started laughing loudly, and I guess I was the only person in the theater who remembered that SNL sketch! "Hey Hulk, this guy's got the strength of a human!" 

Doug: I would have sworn at some point either Pym or Rudd would have used the blue ring to become Giant-Man. Not totally disappointed, but definitely see it coming in the future.

And do you suppose Sebastian Stan's 10 seconds on screen counts for his 9-picture contract?

Karen: The throwdown with the Falcon was a real thrill. I felt so bad for Sam...but it was great to see the two go at it. And the whole set up -"You idiots, that's not a warehouse!" -classic. I really like how this film integrated other elements of the Marvel universe in a way that didn't seem forced, but natural. It also didn't feel like it had to shape itself to support future films, which is something I think has hurt some of the other movies.

That last clip in the credits was a nice glimpse at Civil War -I heard it was an actual scene from the movie.  I was glad to see the Winter Soldier though; we were hearing so much about it being Cap vs Iron Man that it seemed like they'd forgotten about him, and I felt like Cap 3 needed to carry over his arc from the second Cap film.

Bronze Age Babies Buleltins: Who's Captain Marvel, and Meet the Black Panther

Karen: At the request of our buddy Humanbelly, today we're going to give folks a chance to engage on a topic that has received a lot of attention lately: who should play Captain Marvel/Carol Danvers in the Marvel film universe? A lot of names have been thrown around; most recently, Charlize Theron has been mentioned. But fans have been petitioning for Katee Sackhoff, Natalie Dormer, Katheryn Winnick, Emily Blunt...well, just about any actress you can think of. What's your opinion?

Image from Comicbookmovie.com

Karen: As a bonus, here's some cool mock magazine covers made by Black Panther fan and mechanical engineer Darian Robbins that would be great promo pieces for the film. Comic Book resources (where I also grabbed the images) has an interview with Robbins here. These are really smart, slick graphics and work well to introduce T'Challa and his world. Are you watching, Marvel?

Discuss: Avengers: Age of Ultron

Karen: OK, it's finally here, quite possibly the biggest film event in the universe (at least until Star Wars: The Force Awakens comes out). I plan to see it tonight, and I'm sure many of you will see it this weekend too. Heck, some of our pals overseas have already seen it! So let's talk about the film in general - can we please keep it 

SPOILER-FREE

at least until mid-week, to give everyone a chance to see it first? But you're welcome to share general thoughts -I liked it, I thought it was too long, not enough Hulk, etc -until then.

Karen: From Marvel's own site, here's a video with some suggestions about things to look forward to seeing in the film.

Karen: As a secondary conversation point, I want to share some remarks from an interview with Roy Thomas in Rolling Stone (you can read it here). This follows on yesterday's post regarding Gerry Conway's blog on DC Comics not crediting and compensating creators for characters used on their TV shows. On how Marvel compensates creators for the films, Roy has this to say:

Are you happy with your compensation for co-creating these characters?

Yeah, yeah. A couple of years ago Marvel came to me and a number of the other creators. I guess they got tired of being sued by everybody. I got tired of being deposed all the time, too. And they did what I was always telling them, just give them the money and a little credit on the movie, and they will be your biggest fans. So I not only have certain compensations coming by the formula they worked out but they decided that because they are using those two characters — and because they are using the Yellowjacket concept somewhat in the Antman movie that comes out in a couple of months — they ended up giving me a sizeable bonus as well. And they invited me to the premiere.

Karen: It sure seems like Marvel/Disney has figured out that it's much better to keep the creators happy (oh, yeah, and do the right thing) by actually compensating them.

Stan Lee is also included in that Rolling Stone interview. Our buddy Mike W. brought this video to our attention. Yet another of Stan the Man's many skills on display:

NOTE (April 27 2020): In doing housekeeping on the BAB, I've come across the broken link to this video. As I have no recollection of its content, I must regretfully leave it in its broken state. Apologies to all!

Get Your Popcorn Ready

NOTE: During housekeeping on April 27 2020, I must report that I no longer recall the clips that were attached to this post. Those with broken links shall, alas, remain broken.

Karen: There have been a ton of clips from the upcoming Avengers:Age of Ultron film hitting the internet recently. Are you avoiding them or watching them all? I've pretty much stopped now, wanting to go in to the theater not knowing everything that's going to happen in the film. But here's a couple to get us talking:

Karen: Looking good, although I am still thrown by Ultron's voice. I like James Spader but it's just not what I expect for Ultron. We'll see how it works out in the film.

Karen: Marvel also gave us a full Ant-Man trailer last week. This one had the title character in action, and it also gave us a good look at Yellowjacket -the villain of the film. It's definitely going to have humor but it seems like it will be balanced with a lot of super-heroics. Thoughts?

Karen: DC just got in on the action with the release of the first trailer for Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice. This looks to borrow heavily from The Dark Knight Returns, as well as address the massive destruction of Man of Steel. I'm not sure what to think yet, but it looks awfully dark. I did think that Batman dialog was way too cheesy.

Karen: How about the small screen? Has anyone been watching Daredevil on Netflix? I've seen five episodes so far, and I'm impressed. The production is high-quality all the way around. My only complaint would be the excessive violence, which feels unnecessary to me (I don't need to see a villain beat a man's head into pulp to understand he's volatile and a bad guy). But the story and acting are strong enough that I'll keep  watching -and I'm not even particularly fond of the comics!

Karen: Finally, I can't close without noting that a trailer for the next Star Wars film dropped on April 16th. I am concerned about this one -I want it to be good, because they are bringing back Luke, Han, Leia, and Chewie! -but it is J.J. Abrams at the helm, and his track record is decidedly mixed. But watching this trailer the first time, my heart started pounding. It's Star Wars!

Young, Gifted, and Black: Why not Miles Morales?

Let's try this again.

When we originally posted this, unfortunately an anonymous commenter came on and made a personal attack on another commenter, and things quickly escalated before Doug or I could intervene. We've always said that our vision for this blog is one of a friendly place to hang out (unlike so much of the internet), and we've been lucky to see that come true. What happened with this post was a rare exception, thankfully. We pulled down the post to let things cool down a bit, and have deleted the attack post and the argument that came after. If anyone has questions about the sort of conduct we expect here at BAB, it's posted on the sidebar under "Drama-Free Zone" (that should be a clue). Basically: play nice. We encourage discussion and debate, but we won't tolerate personal attacks or hostility towards others.

We hope by re-opening the post it will allow anyone who might have been discouraged from commenting to join in and move the conversation forward. 


Karen:  I want to talk about something that's been popping up on the interwebs lately -the idea that when Spidey appears in the genuine Marvel cinematic universe, he might not be Peter Parker at all, but Miles Morales. Or at least, he might not be white.

OK, now that the collective gasp and initial outrage has passed, let's  rationally look at this idea, shall we? I'll admit, my first reaction to the idea of a non-Peter Parker Spider-Man on the big screen was one of dismay. Peter is MY Spider-Man. That's who I grew up with. The kid with a million problems and a huge sense of responsibility, who comes alive when he puts on that red and blue suit. It's hard to think of seeing anyone else up there. But these feelings were mired in sentimentality. I tried to steer clear of that, and consider the idea with an open mind.What, I asked myself, seemed essential about Spider-Man, as an idea, a concept?

There are certain things I think have to be retained to make any version of Spider-Man feasible. The "with great power comes great responsibility" theme is the backbone of the character and has to be present. The Everyman nature -the kid with a million problems -is also at the core of what makes him so appealing. And finally, the sense of fun, of youthful exuberance, of sheer rebellion, with the web-slinging and wisecracking, is the final ingredient in the mix.

So why couldn't we get this with Miles Morales? Admittedly, I haven't read a single comic with him in it. I had to look up info on him to get the lowdown. But he's been Peter's successor in the Ultimate universe for four years now, so it's not as if we're pulling somebody out of thin air, or taking a white character and 'turning' him black, ala Nick Fury or Johnny Storm in the new Fantastic Four film. So no one can complain that he's not a 'real' comic book character. No, Miles has been around and he's got fans.

He's also a lot like Peter, in that he's a science nerd. He was also pretty young when he first became Spidey -just 13, even younger than Peter. He got his powers through a spider bite too, although this spider was created by Norman Osborn. Now they'd probably have to change his origin in the movies, if there's no Peter Parker. But big deal. They could do that. He's got problems with his family -his uncle is even a super-villain. So there's plenty of angst there.

So what are the pros? Well, it would distance Marvel from the last two Spider-Man films, which were not that successful (although, unlike some folks here, I really liked Andrew Garfield as Peter/Spidey). It would also make it clear that this was an entirely different Spider-Man. It would be fresh, and exciting.

It would bring some much needed diversity to the Marvel cinematic universe, which currently has only three African American characters (Fury, Falcon, and War Machine), all  in supporting roles, although Black Panther is on his way. With Miles we'd have an A list hero of color. Some might ask, 'Why does this matter?' It does matter. It's important for our heroes to reflect society as a whole and I'm betting for some kids, to see a super-hero who looks like them among a bunch of otherwise white heroes, is a very big deal. Of course, Spidey has always been one of the few heroes who was covered head to toe, and could "be" anyone -Stan Lee makes that point in this clip at around the 1:15 mark:

Marvel's lucky -they really wouldn't have to change their toys or other products at all. Well, Miles' outfit is different but they might elect to stick with the traditional suit just for marketing purposes. 

What are the cons? Dumping Peter Parker does risk fan backlash. And let's admit it, there are still a lot of just plain prejudiced people out there. There's also the marketing issues, but again -Spider-Man looks like Spider-Man, regardless of who's in the costume (well, unless it's the Blob). 

I have to admit, I wish I knew more about Miles. My number one complaint about the Raimi Spider-Man films was that I never felt they captured the glib, smart-aleck nature of the character. The two recent, reboot films seemed to get that right, although that was about all they got right. I don't know if Miles has a similar personality. I'd miss that if he was a more serious guy.

But honestly, I feel like I am ready to give Miles a chance. I didn't think I could get to this place when I first heard the idea bandied around, but you know, I've had MY Spider-Man, maybe it is time to try a new one. When the new Star Trek films came out, with new actors playing Kirk and Spock and the rest, it wasn't MY Trek, but you know, I enjoyed them for what they were, and I always have my DVDs of the original series and movies to look at if I need that fix. I think we have to seriously consider the idea of Miles Morales as Spider-Man in the film universe, and not dismiss it so easily.

Raging Robots and Maids of Steel

Karen: A new trailer for Avengers: Age of Ultron was released on Wednesday and it looks sweet! Check it out and chime in!

Karen: On Friday, pictures of the new Supergirl for the CBS series were also posted. OK -what say you on this costume -and of course the actress (Melissa Benoist) in it! I'm not fond of the muted colors but otherwise -I think it looks pretty good!

Discuss: Marvel's Agent Carter

Karen: We've had some requests for this, so here it is. Feel free to share your thoughts on Agent Carter.

"I'm going to tear you apart from the inside" -Avengers:Age of Ultron trailer 2 is up!

Karen: Ultron! Avengers! Hulkbuster!!! It's the second full trailer for Avengers: Age of Ultron!

Feeling Antsy?

Karen: Howdy folks.  Catching up on recent events, any thoughts on the Ant-Man movie trailer that came out last week (posted below)? I'm just wondering if people are excited about this or what expectations might be for it. Also, I know we have a few Hank Pym fans around here, and since he won't be donning the Ant-Man suit but playing the mentor role to Scott Lang, how does that strike everyone?

Who Made Who?

Karen: Sunday morning I was lazily reading some articles on the comics sites, since I like to keep up with what's going on in the books I no longer actually read, and I came across this article in Comic Book Resources by Brett White, which discusses how Marvel Comics are changing characters and long-time story lines to get more in line with the Marvel films. I knew some of this had been going on -for example, the increase in Inhumans in the Marvel Comics universe. But I was stunned to read this little tidbit: it was recently revealed that Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch are NOT the children of Magento! What??  

Karen: Yes, a brilliant idea from 30 years ago apparently wiped out in order to make the comics more like the upcoming Avengers: Age of Ultron film. So who will be the twins' parents now? I don't know. Will they turn out to be Inhumans? Mutant inhumans? It's mind-boggling to me that Marvel feels the need to make a move like this.

Karen: It's obvious that they think that they need to bring their books more in line with the films, so that new readers (coming from the movies) will not be confused by discrepancies from the film universe to the book universe. But I think they are operating from a false premise. I really don't think there is much flow of readers in that direction. From what I can tell, you have movie fans, and comic fans who also are movie fans. There aren't a lot of Marvel movie fans who also decide to go read the comics.  Sad but apparently true.

Karen: So Marvel is essentially going back and altering/hacking away at its own roots, all for naught. This move, and others mentioned in White's article (replacing Nick Fury with Nick Fury Jr, who looks like Samuel Jackson, the worldwide Inhumans increase, books featuring movie and TV characters, etc) are unnecessary, over-complicating, and make the comics seem like slaves to the films. I'd much rather see the movies drawing from the comics, and not the other way around.

Who's the Best... Superhero Movie Fight Scene?

Marvel Movies Announcement -- Breaking News

Get yourself on over to Yahoo and read this story. Chadwick Boseman as T'Challa? Yes!!

Avengers: Age of Ultron trailer is here!!!

Karen: WOW WEE!!! AVENGERS....ULTRON....HULKBUSTER!!!! 'NUFF SAID!