Who's the Best... Frienemy?

Doug: Friends, foes, sometimes even lovers (and haters!). What about characters who cross the line... and back?

Guest Post - If I Had a Buck... Sheroes

Mike S. (aka Martinex1) is back again today with another of his $1 Challenges. We've had some fun in the past with these (click that link you just passed to check out his other posts), and I'm sure we'll get some good conversation again today. Thanks, Mike!

Sheroes.   The Super Heroine $1 Shopping Spree.
 

Mike S.: Here we go again. We are taking a trip to the ever changing, ever evolving comic store with only loose change in our pocket. It is time for another round of “If I Had A Buck…” This time around, the spinner rack selection has only heroines, superwomen, and female champions from which to choose.

There has been much talk in the comic industry recently about the attempt to reach female readers and to embrace strong female protagonists. There are numerous titles on the stands today with women headliners and that is a good thing. The cinematic Marvel universe has yet to create an A list film for a heroine. Earlier endeavors in the cinema with Red Sonja, Elektra, Catwoman, and Supergirl starring were less than stellar. Recently some of the Marvel films have established strong women in team efforts with Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, and Gamora. And there is great anticipation around the Ms. Marvel solo film. Hopefully someday we will see the Wasp, Tigra, Valkyrie, Batwoman, Raven, Huntress, and others on the silver screen.

In comics, Wonder Woman was always the grandmother of all heroines. Her costume is iconic and she ranks as a great character in a pantheon alongside Batman and Superman. Her comic has endured in one form or another for many decades, she was the subject of a successful live action television show, and she will be reappearing on film soon (hopefully arriving in her invisible jet). Honestly, I never read much Wonder Woman until George Perez took over the creative control in the 1980s, but always recognized her stature particularly in the JLA.

The late 70s brought to Marvel Comic fans an array of female headliners that have definitely stood the test of time.  Many of these characters were initially derivatives of their male counterparts and were used to shore up marketing trademarks and licenses. But characters like Spider Woman, She-Hulk, and Ms. Marvel have evolved with distinct personalities, traits, and conflicts. There have been many compelling takes on these characters over the years.

Spider-Woman’s initial series ran for fifty issues, which is no small feat. She starred in a Saturday morning cartoon show as well.  The comic established Jessica Drew’s uniqueness (despite her derivative name) with her base of operations on the West Coast, with a bizarre cast of villains who had horror leanings, and a rather convoluted and evolving origin. Her series had her battle weirdos like the Brothers Grimm, Daddy Longlegs, and Gypsy Moth. She teamed regularly and also fought against the Werewolf By Night. In her introduction, she was evolved from a spider (though that origin quickly changed) and she emitted an odor or creepiness that turned people off. Today she is a consistent star in the Avengers titles and continues to grow in a new solo series.

She-Hulk likewise went through many iterations. She started off with a very lame origin of a blood transfusion from her cousin Bruce Banner; her initial series was fairly mundane. John Byrne advanced her character in his run on the Fantastic Four and in a new solo title in which the heroine regularly broke the fourth wall and had many humorous adventures and interludes. Her most recent solo title is critically acclaimed as it focuses on Jennifer’s legal expertise and relationships.

Throughout the last five decades Marvel advanced many diverse female characters in their team books and solo titles. In my opinion these characters were just as compelling as their male counterparts and often drove very interesting stories with complex characterizations and problems. The list includes but is not limited to:  The Cat, Moondragon, Mantis, Thundra, Firestar, Aleta, Nikki, Tigra, Snowbird, Aurora, Hellcat, Valkyrie, Darkstar, Sif, Medusa, Crystal, Nova, Jocasta, Sheena, Storm, Kitty Pride, Dazzler, Dagger, Rogue, Marionette, and Songbird. Some fared better than others over time. Marvel also established some memorable female villains in Black Cat, Deathbird, Typhoid Mary, Moonstone, Mystique, White Queen, Destiny, Morgan LeFay, Madame Masque, Nebula, and of course Dark Phoenix.  

Over at DC, we saw Fire, Ice, Dove, Power Girl, Huntress, Oracle, Black Canary, Supergirl, Catwoman, Hawkgirl, Jesse Quick, Batgirl, and many others.

 So today, in this discussion there are nine titles to choose from, with nine female leads (I cheated a little to get Thundra in play), and only $1.00 to spend. I am curious what you would buy if there were only female characters on the spinner rack.

But even more importantly, I am curious what you think about the many heroines. Who are your favorites? What stories are worth reading? Who has better offerings in this category, Marvel or DC? Who would you like to see more of and should have their own series? Who should lead a team? Who would you like to see get a solo movie? 

And as always, have fun! Here is the list:

The Daring New Adventures of Supergirl #7; $0.60

Dazzler #8; $0.50

Huntress #8; $1.00 (Yeah, I know you would have to spend all of your money, but that is a cool Staton cover!)

Marvel Chillers featuring Tigra The Were-Woman #5; $0.25

Marvel Two-In-One #56 starring Thundra; $0.40 (That punch had to put it on the list!)

Ms. Marvel #21; $0.35

Savage She-Hulk #10; $0.50 (with a Michael Golden cover!)

Spider-Woman #32; $0.50

Wonder Woman #5; $0.75

Super Blog Team-Up - The Frightful Four (Are Brains Required for this Outfit?)

Doug: Welcome to the third Super-Blog Team-Up, the second in which the Bronze Age Babies have participated. If you're landing here from one of the other participants, we sure hope you'll like what you see around this space -- be sure to come back again soon! To our regulars, we always appreciate your participation and know you'll happen by our other "partners" in the next day or so.

Doug: If there's one major thing we do around here, it's discuss comic books! Today we're featuring the Frightful Four, that collection of do-badders that menaced the Fantastic Four in the Silver and Bronze Ages (and perhaps beyond, but we don't deal in that sort of thing).

Karen: The Frightful Four -the "other" FF! What can one say about these guys (and gals) other than - they really never could match their counterparts, could they? They were never direct copies of the Fantastic Four, as far as powers go, but their set up typically revolved around a brainy leader (the Wizard), some muscle (Sandman usually), the requisite female member (Medusa or Thundra), and then, well, the Trapster! Both the Wizard and the Trapster had started out as opponents for the Human Torch in his solo adventures in Strange Tales, although the Trapster went by the charming nom du crime of Paste-Pot Pete at the beginning of his career. The Wizard first showed up in Strange Tales #102 (Nov. 1962), and PPP came along two issues later. The two would team up and take on the Torch in Strange Tales #110 (July 1963), and be soundly beaten by the blazing teen alone. But obviously this defeat didn't deter them from thinking bigger- and adding a little more help. In Fantastic Four #36 (March 1965), Pete would escape from prison with help from former Spider-Man foe the Sandman. In a bizarre set of circumstances, the two of them run into the Wizard. The Wizard, with his very healthy ego, believes that with the addition of a super-powered female, they could be the equal of the Fantastic Four. He happens to know where to find such a woman (amazingly) and soon Madam Medusa has joined the ranks of the newly christened "Frightful Four." This was obviously at a time before Medusa's Inhuman origins had been worked out. The group goes after the FF but the fight is a draw essentially, and the villains escape.

Doug: The Wizard's finest attribute may be that massive ego! I think these blokes from the beginning were simply bent on attention-getting behaviors. If there's a line between Marvel and DC villains in the Silver Age, it may be the fact that the DC guys were always out for some sort of personal gain, while at the House of Ideas it seemed to be all about expressing one's machismo. And as we'll see throughout our brief survey, the Wizard "always had a weakness for skirts".

Karen: In issue #38 (May 1965), the Frightful Four return, and they've made a few changes. Paste Pot Pete has switched to his Trapster name, reflecting a more serious threat by the group. And Medusa has a redesigned uniform that gives her a sleeker, sexier look. The bad guys grab Sue Storm and use her as bait to lure the rest of the Fantastic Four to a Pacific atoll where the Wizard plans to detonate a "Q-bomb" that will kill the FF (and anything else in a large radius). The two teams battle on the atoll and the Frightful Four actually get the upper hand, managing to escape before the bomb goes off. The FF survive within one of the Invisible Girl's force fields, but lose their powers...but that's a whole different story. The Frightful Four actually seemed pretty dangerous at this point, having nearly accomplished their task. There was a certain level of ruthlessness to them that was rather scary, particularly given the era.

Doug: In the "interesting" department, raw beats schtick every time. There has to be a true sense of danger for an antagonist to be acceptable.

Karen: The third appearance of the Frightful Four was the most exciting -and for me, the most memorable! Originally appearing in Fantastic Four #41-43 (Aug-Oct 1965), I first read this tale in the pages of the 70s reprint title, Marvel's Greatest Comics. By this point, many things had come together for the World's Greatest Comic Magazine, not the least of these being the art - Kirby's work had begun to take on the qualities we would associate with his FF run, despite the fact that these issues are inked by Vince Colletta and not Joe Sinnott.  But the story is the real key -it's a terrific thriller where the villains manage to kidnap the Thing and brainwash him into attacking his friends. This was a tale with emotional heft, and it definitely made the Frightful Four seem like an A-class threat for the FF.  We also get some tantalizing glimpses of internal conflict, as there is jostling for leadership of the group between the Wizard and Medusa. Sadly, this would never be developed. Despite this encouraging start, the villainous group would disappear for five years, not showing up again until the lackluster Fantastic Four #94 (Jan. 1970), which was the last time we saw the original line-up together -although Medusa only rejoined so she could warn the FF, who were now her good friends. It's truly puzzling that this team was left out to hang for so long, but when you look at all of the other concepts introduced by Lee and Kirby immediately following the Frightful Four's introduction -the Inhumans, Galactus, the Silver Surfer, Black Panther, etc. - perhaps there simply wasn't room for them! They got much more mileage in the Bronze Age.

Doug: We know Stan could turn on a dime with an idea; Medusa's changing allegiances would be a prime example. While a capable villainess, she became equally acceptable later on as a noble ally. And I think you're right about the succeeding years, truly the Fantastic Four's golden age. With all of the heavy hitters the Lee/Kirby juggernaut created, the Frightful Four became small-timers quickly.

Doug: The next set of issues shown below brought the Frightful Four into the Bronze Age with a line-up change. Gone was Madam Medusa, replaced by a new character created by Roy Thomas and Gerry Conway and first depicted by the art team of John Buscema and Joe Sinnott. Thundra was a champion for women, calling Medusa "sister" in FF #129 (Dec. 1972). Possessing super-strength and seemingly limitless stamina, she was brought on board to handle the Thing (so who would the Sandman shift to fighting?). Problem is, she took a shine to ol' Ben Grimm and that sort of complicated her membership in the Frightful Four. But oddly enough, her infatuation with the Thing was not all love-based -- no, in fact her attention seemed to be focused on kicking Ben's butt in a one-on-one throwdown. Yet Thundra could be harsh to women as well, as she spoke in no uncertain terms to Medusa when the Inhuman used her living tresses against the Femizon.

Doug: And how about that cover by Jim Steranko for FF #130 (Jan. 1973)?

Karen: Thundra was certainly an interesting addition to both the Frightful Four and the title. Her motivations always seemed to make her less of a team player though. 

Doug: While Fantatic Four #148 (July 1974) has a great Rich Buckler/Joe Sinnott cover, the adventure inside leaves a little bit to be desired. This is temporally an odd issue in that it falls in between a larger story involving Sue's leaving Reed for the Sub-Mariner. But, I suppose in real life we bounce from one vignette to another... Anyway, upon losing Round One to Namor, Ben, Reed, Medusa, and Johnny return to the Baxter Building to find that the Frightful Four have again infiltrated it (I don't know who the doorman was at this point, but he was doing a rotten job!). There's a nice battle between the Sandman and Reed, and also Johnny and the Trapster. But this was a done-in-one tale, so there really wasn't too much drama. The Wizard is able to use his anti-gravity discs to put Medusa and Reed out of the battle, but it's Thundra's deus ex machina appearance that wins the day for our heroes. When the straits are at their most dire, the 7-foot beauty mysteriously materialized right in the thick of it all (in a Buckler/Sinnott image that would adorn the first series of the 7-11 Slurpee cups) and took the fight out of the evil FF. She didn't have any trouble being accepted by Reed, Ben, Johnny, and Medusa, either. In fact, on the issue's closing two-page splash of Namor announcing a new war against the surface people, Conway's script refers to five "friends". Oh -- and we're never given any rationale for this latest attack by the Frightful Four. We're left to deduce that they a) just wanted a scrap and/or b) the Wizard continued to pine for Reed Richard's technology files.

Karen: The revolving door on the fourth member had started and wouldn't stop. While the original three baddies now had every reason to hate the FF, it was getting harder to make sure that fourth member matched their fervor. I would also say that this is when the Frightful Four started to feel like a second rate group -they can't maintain any cohesiveness and their plans are now far less successful. A far cry from the team of the Silver Age.

Doug: I think you're exactly right. As I read over these 1970s appearances, there just didn't seem to be any motivation. If nothing else, I thought it was a broken record that the Wizard wanted to steal Reed's tech, the Sandman seemed to have an inferiority complex against the entire FF, and the Trapster... well, he was the Trapster. How many super-villains have been in as high-profile a magazine yet disrespected more as an adversary? So add in a fourth member -- any fourth member -- and the right chemistry should have allowed this thing to take off. Yet, it seemed formulaic to have the Frightful Four implode on themselves, never seeing any of their machinations through to any sort of hard result.

Doug: One of the stories we've discussed reviewing in 2014 is the Frightful Four 2-parter that trailed the very fun Impossible Man tale from FF #176. In Fantastic Four #177-178 (Dec. 1976-Jan. 1977) the Frightful Four has taken control of the Baxter Building (again) and is holding auditions for a fourth member! And even that gets wild and woolly, as a new character named the Texas Twister shows up (we'd see him again against Johnny in FF #192) and literally blows everyone away. He wouldn't be a good fit around the Sandman, however. Captain Ultra had a costume only Wonder Man could appreciate, but had a pathological fear of fire. Uh, no. So after some time of interview/audition/failure -- including Thundra and Tigra, each of whom immediately turns on the three main FF members, a new candidate presents himself and makes a strong case for himself. As Thundra and Tigra wreaked havoc on their would-be suitors upstairs, the Wizard was able to commandeer a microphone and broadcast to the applicants in the lobby to send help immediately. Careful what you ask for... On a sidenote, the art by George Perez and Joe Sinnott is striking during this period.

Karen: Boy, there were some real stinkers that showed up for those try-outs... talk about desperation!

Doug: Not being a regular reader of the Warlock mag, I had no idea that the Brute and his alter ego -- the Reed Richards of Counter-Earth -- were characters in Warlock #6-7. This guy is particularly nasty: as large as the Hulk, way smarter, and just as aggressive. He makes short work of Ben in their first encounter, tossing him into the Negative Zone! And that's how he's exposed as an alternate-Reed -- how in the world could the Brute have known just which switch to throw to jettison Ben into the abyss? Later, our Reed also gets tossed into the Zone, but that's after the Frightful Four portion of the story is over. And what of the Four fiends? They are used pretty typically in this tale, although Roy Thomas adds quite a bit of humor to it. I'd have to say that there was more characterization here than we'd seen before. By the end of #178, the Fantastic Four, along with their allies Thundra and Tigra, make relatively short work of the Wingless Wizard, Sandman, and the Trapster.

Karen: At the time, my knowledge of the Brute was limited like yours. I don't think Warlock had great distribution! But after picking up the Warlock Marvel Masterwork volume 1 and reading through all of those early issues, I have a greater appreciation for him. I do like the idea of Counter-Earth, and the duplicates that live there. It's a great "What If?" On that world, our four heroes made their spaceflight, but did not receive super-powers, and so the Fantastic Four was never born. Further, Sue Storm went into a coma upon crash landing on Earth. The stress of causing Sue harm, and some manipulation by the satanic Man-Beast, gave rise to Counter-Reed's alter-ego. Having him become a Hulk-like creature is a nice twist. Although we know any Reed from any universe could never stand playing second fiddle to the Wizard!

Doug: So there you have a brief synopsis of this cadre of knuckleheads from your friends at the BAB. Now it's your turn! What did you like/dislike about the Frightful Four, which were your favorite stories, and how might they have been better used across the Marvel Universe -- not just as antagonists for the Fantastic Four? There were later iterations of this FF, past the Bronze Age, with a myriad of members (including Hydro-Man, Klaw, and Man-Bull) -- does anyone have feelings positive or negative toward those stories?

Doug: And now that you're done here, be sure to check out the other 11 writers participating in this round of Super-Blog Team-Up:

Silver Age Sensations -- The Voracious Villainy of the Crimson Dynamo

Flodo’s Page -- The Villainous Villainies of The Lamp-Lighter

Longbox Graveyard -- Thanos: Love & Death

Between The Pages -- Two Villains Rule The World of Cakes: Darth Vader & Boba Fett

Superior Spider-Talk -- Chameleon: Peter Parker's Parents Are Androids?

Superhero Satellite -- Legion Of SuperHeroes: The Great Darkness Saga

Fantastiverse -- Green Goblin: The Art of Villainy and Madness

Chasing Amazing -- Carnage: How I Helped Create This Monster

Retroist -- Doom: Of Destiny and Denial

The Daily Rios -- JLA: Beasts storyline

The Unspoken Decade -- Godkillers: Doomsday and Bane

Project Pegasus: Battlin' Babes on the Loose!

Marvel Two in One #56 (Oct. 1979)
"The Deadlier of the Species!"
Writers: Mark Gruenwald and Ralph Macchio
Artists: George Perez and Gene Day

Karen: This is part 4 of our look at the Project: Pegasus storyline, and this issue focuses on Thundra. Introduced back in Fantastic Four #129, Thundra is a warrior woman from an alternate future where society was divided along genders. Her people, the "Femizons" had genetically enhanced Thundra, granting her incredible strength. Originally she traveled to our time to battle Ben, whom the Femizons believed to be the strongest man of all time. They did fight, again and again, and Thundra became interested in Ben romantically, although this was never reciprocated by Ben.

Karen:We also have new artists starting with this issue. George Perez and Gene Day take over from John Byrne and Joe Sinnott, and they do an outstanding job. So often second or third tier books like MTIO would suffer from very weak art, but that's certainly not the case with this series of stories.

Karen: When the issue opens, we see that Thundra and the female wrestlers from last issue are breaking into Project Pegasus. In flashback, we are told that a mysterious man made her an offer she couldn't refuse to plant a device within the Project. However, once she and her team have placed the device, the lady wrestlers take off deeper into the complex, stating they have other orders!

Doug: Assembling those gals for the mission was sort of like a Dirty Dozen, wrasslin' style! Thundra would definitely be an example of all brawn/no brains, wouldn't she?

Karen: We get a quiet interlude with Ben visiting the still-comatose Wundarr. Ben is feeling guilty for allowing the scientists to use Wundarr in their experiments, and tells the man-child how sorry he is, and then quickly leaves before he starts to breakdown. After Ben exits the chamber, we see Wundarr lift his head and say, "Ben, I understand."

Doug: There have been some touching moments with Ben in this story -- it's a very human look at him. It just goes to show that anyone with talent can write any character -- sometimes we complain about certain writers not finding a character's "voice"; that just isn't the case here with scribes Macchio and Gruenwald. It looks like they've done their research, and stretched what they found just enough to make it their own.
Karen: Who should Ben run into after he leaves Wundarr but Thundra. When she refuses to come with him, the two get into another donnybrook, with Ben at a disadvantage due to to his injured arm (the one Deathlok blasted a few issues back).

Doug: I liked how Ben was startled at seeing her, but in that "Oh, crap..." way; he just knows when she shows up something stupid is going to happen. And it did.

Karen: As Ben and Thundra tangle, we pop in on Quasar and Giant-Man, who are cleaning up after the previous issue's fight with Nuklo. An alarm goes off -the female wrestlers have been detected. Our two heroes split up to go after them, and Quasar runs into Letha and Screaming Mimi. Quasar, ever chivalrous, fires a couple of warning shots and tells the two he doesn't want to "use real force on two women." The aptly named Screaming Mimi then cuts loose with a super-powered howl that causes Quasar's vision to distort - Perez' art here is very effective in getting across the feeling of disorientation. Eventually he overcomes his concerns about hurting the two and lets loose with a blast that drops them. As a side note, Screaming Mimi would go on to become Songbird of the Thunderbolts. It's a much better look in my opinion!

Doug: I really liked the panel with Giant-Man and Quasar working. I've said I'm a sucker for characters who are giants, and the perspective in that panel adds to the awe of it.

Doug: You are spot-on in your assessment of Perez's pencils on the Screaming Mimi scene. That is just really, really well done. I could get a sense of vertigo just looking at that page! Perez's choices of camera angles really added to the speed of the battle. The panel where Quasar flies across the floor into the wall is good, too.

Karen: While Quasar is busy with those two, Giant-Man has his hands full with Titania and Poundcakes. G-M has a tough time with the two of them, getting knocked into a fiery pit, and then nearly having his arms torn out by the two, before he finally manages to knock them out.

Doug: Bill Foster has gotten about as much respect in this story as his mentor, Dr. Henry Pym!

Karen: Truer words were never spoken. What is it about giant-guys?

Karen: Meanwhile, Ben is having his own problems with a certain Femizon. I got a chuckle out of the panel where Thundra has Ben on the floor, twisting his head, and yet proclaiming how the two are destined for each other!

Doug: Isn't that how all women behave?

Karen: Very funny sir. Ben manages to get back up and the fight continues, while Ben gives Thundra a lecture about true love. Eventually it comes to a screeching halt -with Ben caught in a scissor hold by Thundra! - when Quasar, Giant-Man, and the security team arrive with the other wrestlers securely in hand. Ben asks Thundra to come clean, but even though she feels betrayed, she has her honor and keeps silent.

Doug: Ben's line to Thundra about not being able to shine Alicia's shoes, followed immediately by "ya blasted tomboy!" was priceless. This is a really great fight scene, really well-choreographed. You could see this playing out on the silver screen in a sort-of Matrix-style battle.

Karen: Our story concludes with that scurrilous scientist, Dr. Lightner, recovering the device Thundra planted. With it, he will have all the components he needs to make the Nth projector, which certainly sounds ominous!

Doug: I cringed when Bill Foster said "mama" to Thundra...

Karen: You noticed that too? There were a few times during this series when the writers seemed to feel the need to throw some 'jive talk' in there. I might expect that from Luke Cage, but from Bill Foster? A biophysicist? This issue was a lot of fun; once it got going it was primarily one fight after another, and yet all were entertaining. As we re-read this little saga, I'm reminded again of how well all the characters were integrated into the story. Each had their own problems that they were dealing with and got the spotlight at different times. Yet Ben is always the center of the story as a whole. This is just a very well-crafted story, and the art has been fabulous.