Showing posts with label Charles Burns. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Charles Burns. Show all posts

Thursday, October 23, 2025

Black Hole Bounces Back


There has been talk for years and years and years and years that my favorite artist Charles Burns' masterpiece Black Hole (which began an eight issue run in 1995 and was then collected into a graphic novel in 2005) would be turned into a movie or something -- David Fincher was trying to do it for ages. It's been a long while since I've seen any news on it so I'd presumed it was dead, which honestly I was fine with -- I don't know that Burns' work is especially translatable to moving pictures. But today there's new news -- specifically that I Saw the T.V. Glow filmmaker Jane Schoenbrun is going to turn it into a series for Netflix. Which makes a world of sense, even though it hadn't occured to me when ISTTVG came out -- in retrospect that movie is totally giving major Burns vibes!

If you don't recall Black Hole tells the story of a sexually transmitted disease making its way through a high school, hideously deforming people as it goes -- honestly I haven't read Black Hole in a decade myself so I should give it another read in the wake oif this news. I am a real Burns obsessive though -- I think I own more of his work than I do any other artist. So clearly I'll be following this news closely. Even if I don't think Black Hole needs to be made into anything other than what it is right now I can see the possibilities in Schoenbrun's hands. We'll see! Netflix has already greenlit the thing straight-to-series so it's really happening happening. Prepare your body holes!

Tuesday, July 30, 2024

They Call Him Kommix


I have gotten very bad at keeping up with those things called "books" -- not just reading (although like a lot of us I'm not doing nearly as much of that as I used to since the internet has fucked up my brain) but keeping abreast of the news of news ones. Hence me just discovering today that my favorite cartoonist alive Charles Burns has a new book out TODAY. It's called Kommix and it's a collection of eight covers of comic books that never were but he wished existed -- this is a very him thing to do. Anyway you can order your copy off of Amazon right this minute -- I would direct you to the publisher Fantagraphics but they're out of stock! Which isn';t too surprising, given I'm hardly the only person who worships at the altar of Mr. Burns. Gahh excited! 

Wednesday, September 04, 2019

Pic of the Day

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Twas a red letter night at the post-box when I got home from a movie screening last night and found those three beauties waiting for me -- I've been meaning to read W. Scott Poole's book on the birth of modern horror for quite some time now so that one was overdue; Charles Burns' new collection of sketches called Free Shit (drawn from his same titled zine) on the other hand was right on time. (See more pictures of the latter here.)

And then, sort of analogous to a "Three Bears" situation I guess, we have the third option -- Margaret Atwood's The Testaments came to me way too early! That book isn't out until next week but due to a big snafu on Amazon's part some customers, of which I was one, got sent the book a full seven days before its proper publication date. 
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As you see I took my excitement over that one to Twitter, where some Independent Bookstores are rightfully expressing their outrage -- I get it and I empathize! Support your local bookstores! I spend tons of money at ones around New York, I just had Amazon gift card money from my birthday to spend and this sudden influx of books here were the delayed result of that. If it sounds like I'm making excuses... I am. I am totally afraid of librarians! I am good friends with a couple of librarians and they are intense. Don't come for me, Bibliophiles! I am one of you!


Tuesday, April 16, 2019

No Quiet For Me

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As if a Call Me By Your Name sequel from Andre Aciman and a Handmaid's Tale sequel from Margaret Atwood as well as new books by John Waters (see here) and Chris Ware and Charles Burns (see here) hitting this fall weren't enough to preemptively collapse my bookshelves upon me under the strain of piled-high awesomeness, we've got another tome to toss into the Reichstag of my ever hungry heart -- Stanley Donwood, the main artist and illustrator behind all of Radiohead's album art-work, is dropping a great big fancy art book called There Will Be No Quiet which will document his process over the decades. if you've ever found yourself lost inside...

... the alienating airport landscapes of OK Computer...

... or the fiery mountains of Kid A...

... or the embryonic insistence of In Rainbows, then you've appreciated his work. Hell I have one tattoo on my body and it's something he once drew. (A variation of it is on the book's cover up top, in case you're looking for a hint.) So needless to say I'm excited, and so should you be dammit.
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Friday, March 22, 2019

Graphic Novel Nirvana

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September 24th of this year is looking like a red-letter day for the certain special know-somethings among us -- two new books from two of my favorite modern cartoonists are both hitting that day. First up seen above is the new thingamajig from Charles Burns, the genius behind Black Hole and so forth -- it's called Free S**t and it's actually a collection of sketches he's been doing for years for friends and acquaintances.

"Since 2000, master cartoonist Charles Burns has been self-publishing a secret, handmade sketchbook zine titled Free S**t, exclusively for friends and VIPs. For the first time, Burns has compiled all twenty-five issues into a single pocket-sized volume for all of his fans to enjoy. Featuring finished drawings, rough sketches, process pieces, and more, the book is a revealing behind-the-scenes look at how characters and motifs in acclaimed works like Black Hole and Last Look have evolved. Black & white illustrations."

You can buy that right here. Next up and probably even more exciting because it's actual new piece of fiction and not a collection of randomness (I mean nothing against Charles Burns' Randomness, which puts Everyone Else's Randomness to several leagues of shame) is Rusty Brown, from the also-genius Chris Ware. Here's how that's described:

"Rusty Brown is a fully interactive, full-color articulation of the time-space interrelationships of three complete consciousnesses in the first half of a single midwestern American day and the tiny piece of human grit about which they involuntarily orbit. A sprawling, special snowflake accumulation of the biggest themes and the smallest moments of life, Rusty Brown literately and literally aims at nothing less than the coalescence of one half of all of existence into a single museum-quality picture story, expertly arranged to present the most convincingly ineffable and empathetic illusion of experience for both life-curious readers and traditional fans of standard reality. From childhood to old age, no frozen plotline is left unthawed in the entangled stories of a child who awakens without superpowers, a teen who matures into a paternal despot, a father who stores his emotional regrets on the surface of Mars and a late-middle-aged woman who seeks the love of only one other person on planet Earth."

I still cry every time I flip through Ware's 2003 masterpiece Jimmy Corrigan: The Smartest Kid on Earth and this seems awfully similar to that one, in form anyway -- I'm sure in those compact little pages we can expect a gorgeous pile-up of squares and rectangles that please the eye and the mind whilst shattering the heart. Per usual! Click here to buy your copy of Rusty Brown! Add on Andre Aciman's Call Me By Your Name sequel coming out a month later and this Fall is looking like a prime one for book-lovers named Me.


Thursday, March 01, 2018

Black Plague

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My Xmas present to myself this year was Fantagraphics great big (and I do mean GREAT BIG) fancy-pants "Studio Edition" of what is quite probably my favorite book, Charles Burns' graphic novel Black Hole, as seen above, blocking out both the sun and your trusty blogger. Okay yes it was a series of comics before it was turned into a "book" but whatever, those definitions don't matter now right?

Anyway we've been following the saga of getting Black Hole - which tells the slow and strange nightmarish tale of a sexually transmitted plague of sorts working its way across a group of teenagers in Small Town America - turned into a movie for a decade at this point at least, but there's new news today -- somebody is trying again! No it's not David Fincher anymore - THR is reporting that Dope director Rick Famuyiwa is going to take a stab at it.

He is a fascinating choice and for unexpected reasons - Famuyiwa is a black film-maker, and all of his projects have starred basically entirely black casts. He also made Brown Sugar and The Wood and worked on the TV show The Chi. Black Hole is, off the top of my head, lily white? I can't recall if there are any black characters in it, but the thing is... it is literally black and white; HARD black and white. These characters don't HAVE to be caucasian:

I'd been reading them way but there's nothing saying we have to read their skin-tones that way. But I could be making a false assumption here - maybe Famuyiwa intends to make this his white people movie. Or maybe he'll mix the cast. Hell they could animate the thing a la Burns' section in the film 2007 horror cartoon Fear(s) of the Dark. THR doesn't have any info on his plans or quotes from the film-maker.  Whatever he does I love he's got me looking at Burns in a new way, and we'll keep our eyes peeled for more info...
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Thursday, June 25, 2015

Smile Weiner-Dog Smile

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A few days ago wunderkind-producer Megan Ellison tweeted out that Todd Solondz's new film Weiner-Dog -- starring Greta Gerwig as Dawn Weiner... yes that Dawn Weiner and yes that Greta Gerwig -- had started production. And I smiled til my smile broke.
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Well today comes official word from Megan's production company on just who's joining Miss Gerwig, and HOLY SHIT. Joining Greta are, amongst others, Brie Larson and Ellen Burstyn. HOLY SHIT. Todd Solondz, I think you're making this movie for me, aren't you? Just for me? Me specifically? I think maybe Todd wants me to trade that Charles Burns drawing I have of him for this movie, is my guess. It's a deal! You've earned that shit.

Other names in the cast are Danny DeVito, Keiran Culkin, Tracy Letts, Julie Delpy (we already knew about her), and Zosia Mamet. Say what you will about Zosia (I think she's pretty funny on Girls, personally) but I'll be goddamned if that cast doesn't read like The Perfect Storm of Solondz.

Oh and they're now saying that Weiner-Dog will feature "characters" from Welcome to the Dollhouse -- note the plural there. Oh my god who else will be around? Has Brandon returned from abroad? Is Cookie still angry about that crumbling cookie? I hope Ginger is still rocking out on the hood of that car in the alleyway and talking about finger-fucking. Will Ralphie be there? (Ralphie is probably dead.) Or what about LOLITA??? What if Brie is playing LOLITA???

 My brain is broken.
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Tuesday, September 16, 2014

A Gorgeous Haul

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Now this is the sort of two-fer you want to greet you when the mail-man shows up! I've known for awhile (and posted thus) that the remastered blu-ray of The Texas Chain Saw Massacre was coming out today, but the Cookie Mueller biography was a surprise - I didn't think it was out until the end of this month. What a pair these two make! Leatherface and Concetta, together forever! She does have a knife in her pocky-book...

And to top it off I've got a copy of Charles Burns' new book, the third in his X'd Out trilogy called Sugar Skull, waiting for me in my mailbox at home. It's like Christmas! (I better get them cha-cha heels.)


Monday, August 18, 2014

Thursday, October 03, 2013

Fincher Falls Down Charlie's Black Hole

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Among the many, many things we've already got to be thankful to Steve McQueen and 12 Years a Slave for, still sight unseen, this one might turn out to be the best of all - Brad Pitt's production company, which is responsible for McQueen's film, is using the Oscar hopeful's Oscar cachet to plow forward on a bunch of new projects including a renewed vigor at getting David Fincher's movie version of Charles Burns' brilliant and horrifying graphic novel Black Hole off of the ground. This movie is on par with Alejandro Jodorowsky's adaptation of Dune for me, in degrees of potential awesomeness - it blows my itty bitty little mind that it could be a thing that exists. And unlike the former, it really could still exist. The possibility stands! My god, I can't even really wrap my head around it. In case you're unawares (and really, you should read the damn book already) Black Hole tells the story of a sexual plague of sorts that mutating a bunch of teenagers in a small town - while horrifying and grotesque for sure, it uses that imagery to capture that oh-so-specific teenage kind of alienation and confusion and, well, hormonal psychosis in astonishing and unique ways. Picture Dazed and Confused meets Freaks.
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Thursday, June 06, 2013

Todd By Chuck

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If you're in and/or around New York City and you enjoy the work of the artist Charles Burns... then you probably already know about this. But if not, or if you would like to be any of these things, have I got something for you! The Adam Baumgold Gallery has a show of portraits that Burns did for The Believer magazine up until the 26th of July, and it's pretty swank I must say. You can see all of the images at that link; there's everybody from Franz Kafka to Amy Sedaris and beyond! Beyond up to and including Todd Solondz, seen above (and soon after that to be seen on my wall). They've also got several images from Burns' best known work Black Hole, which is kind of the Charles Burns Gateway Drug.
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Thursday, May 17, 2012

Quote of the Day

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The other day I admitted an affection for Twilight star Robert Pattinson, mostly centered around the fact that I successfully avoided all things Twilight. Also he is attractive and he's fetishized David Cronenberg movies. Win! Today I'm going to be even more daring and admit an affection for Twilight star Kristen Stewart, who doesn't have the benefit of being a person I would sleep with. But I still like her, haters be damned - she seems like a good little stoner, and anybody that Charlize approves, I approve. And now I have even more reason to like her! My friend Sean caught this passage from an interview with her in the new issue of Elle:

"Drifting over to the graphic novel section, Stewart gasps at seeing Black Hole. “This fucking store is like kismet!” she says. “I want to do this movie!” The book, about a sexually transmitted plague, “is disgusting, so gross,” Stewart enthuses. “I love the first image” – she turns to a completely black page with a white vagina-shape opening in the center – “a slit. You just grow, like, holes in your body. The imagery is so weird. See” – she flips to another page – “he’s looking at her hand and soon there’s gonna be a little mouth in there. It’s so sexual, the desire is so fucking palpable, but it feels so dirty, like [the characters] are so ashamed because they’re diseased, they’re literally getting these holes.”

What I find especially awesome about these admittances from me on liking the Twilight stars is that both were spurred along by their exuberant admiration of gaping wounds and the artists that celebrate them. Hooray body horror! But if Kristen Stewart throws her accumulated box office might towards finally getting a movie made out of the deeply disturbing masterpiece that is Black Hole, I will never ever abandon her.
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Tuesday, December 20, 2011

I Am Link

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--- A Pinch of Fincher - Didja hear The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo is coming out a day early? That means it's out today, by the way. I just heard this, which makes my "early" screening of the film last night seem slightly less exciting. But the film is good! I will try and review it later today, if I get the chance. (So so busy.) But because that movie's out David Fincher's been making the press rounds, and you can read several stories of interest over at Slash - Here's what he would have done if he'd ultimately gotten to make a Spider-Man movie like he almost did! Here's an update on several things he's working on, including his long-gestating adaptation of Charles Burns' brilliant graphic novel Black Hole! And here's Tattoo's screenwriter Steven Zaillan talking about how he wants to do the remake of Timecrimes really badly!

--- Pretty Pretty - I hope y'all have been keeping up with Club Silencio's Obscure Beauty series, because it's exceedingly pleasurable. Adam seems to be on a giallo slash Bava kick and there be great wads of prettiness to gawk at.

--- Cine-manna - Twitch gives us word of several exciting classics that'll be screening at the Film Society of Lincoln Center in January and February, including ones by Fassbinder and Herzog, so this is heaven for me, and that is what matters.

--- Woody's Women - This is super fun - EW got a list from Woody Allen of the five classic film actresses that he'd have loved to work with. Just close your eyes and picture Bette Davis doing a Woody Allen movie, and find nirvana there.

--- Knight Writer - I feel ridiculous for not having written anything much on the trailer for The Dark Knight Rises, but time really has been too scarce this week. Thankfully Nat did it for me slash everyone with his Yes No maybe So take on it over at The Film Experience. Also, io9 goes through it via screencaps. I mean... is there anybody who isn't going to see this movie? I ask that genuinely - even though I think The Dark Knight is far from perfect, and even though I couldn't understand half the word coming out of Tom Hardy's face, and even though it seems like there are way way too many characters, I simply cannot imagine missing the movie, it's unfathomable to me, and I know this means I've been brainwashed, but there it is.

--- Miss Three Hundred - Eva Greensleeves (her name has become that in my head permanently because my boyfriend's obsessed with the fact that she's always wearing long sleeves, which makes her a better person, natch) is going to play the villainess Artemisia in the sequel to 300, probably. She sounds like a female version of the gold-spackled Xerxes. Mmm Rodrgio Santoro in his golden underpants...

--- Turn of the Century Killer - A writer's been hired to adapt the terrific book The Devil in the White City into a movie for Leonardo Dicaprio to play the serial killer H.H. Holmes. I very much enjoyed this book and would very much like to see it adapted into a movie, if only to see the Chicago World's Fair of 1893 recreated. 

--- Enter Elevenses - Rumors be swirling that the trailer or the teaser trailer or perhaps a trailer for the teaser trailer or who knows for The Hobbit Part Uno will show up somewhere someplace today. And here I forgot to bring my hairy hobbitses feet to work just in case!

--- Just Jessica - First it happened with David O. Russell's Nailed, but that got swallowed up into nothingness, but here's the second time I find myself amazed to be really anticipating a movie starring Jessica Biel. She does absolutely nothing for me as an actress, but this being French director Pascal Laugier's follow-up to  the horror masterpiece Martyrs, I don't really have a choice. It's called The Tall Man (I've spoken of it before), and BD has a couple new Biel-riffic pics from it.

--- Winter Is Here - If you're as anxious as I am for something anything Song of Ice and Fire related now that you've read all the books and the show's not back on HBO for a few months, then you could find no better outlet than a podcast starring friend and ASOIAF obsessive Sean T. Collins.
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Monday, January 24, 2011

I Am Link

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--- Second Nitnit - I think it was Sean who alerted me to the presence of Charles Burns' Johnny 23, which is as Sean puts it "a remix" of Burns' recent gorgeous X'd Out comic, so it's only fitting that I send you along now to Sean's review of this new book. It's a beautiful, scary dream.

--- Observe This - Fringe is back! And it did boffo Friday business! I knew it would the whole time! (Lies.) Okay boffo though might be overstating it a bit, but it was the winner for the night and that's got to count for something. Plus it was a fine episode. Joe recapped it at Low Res, go read it.

--- Dead Last Man - I'm fairly certain director DJ Caruso has said as much before but this sounds especially nail-in-the-coffin-ish. Via DH here he is on his adaptation of Brian K. Vaughn's brilliant comic series Y: The Last Man:

"the project "is pretty much dead" as far as he's concerned. "I got where I did as far as I did with New Line and Warners. It’s just, unfortunately, not going to work out"

Maybe now someone with actual talent can tackle the book then.

--- Ham Master - If he hadn't spent that past what twenty years now being a complete ham I'd feel a little bit better about it being Anthony Hopkins that's being rumored to play Alfred Hitchcock in that movie I told you about last week. Only he has, so I worry. It's good physical casting of course. And Hitch was a bit of a ham - understatement - in real life anyway. Hrm.

--- Red Pill Blue Pill - My guess is that the Wachowskis think enough time has passed since the abysmal second and third Matrix movies that we won't remember what a painful muddle they were and will find ourselves enthusiastic about the possibility of fourth and fifth movies in the series. They are incorrect. I remember! Never forget!
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Thursday, December 16, 2010

Live Black Hole

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If you click on over here you can watch a live-action short film adaptation of a passage from Charles Burns' graphic novel masterpiece Black Hole by some dude named Rupert Sanders. (ETA Looks like he's the guy that's making Snow White and the Huntsman movie that Tom Hardy was rumored for and might have Charlize Theron as its wicked queen.) io9 has a little more info on it - unfortunately it got taken down from YouTube so I can't post it here in full. It's definitely NSFW so keep that in mind - it wouldn't get anywhere near being an adaptation of the original source if it weren't, of course. Once upon a time this might have been a David Fincher film - this video makes it pretty clear to me that Richard Kelly coulda been a contender. Anyway as it stands this might be all we ever get, so enjoy. It stars Chris Marquette.

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Thursday, December 02, 2010

Pic of the Day

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I want to tattoo this cover of The Believer magazine illustrated by Charles Burns onto the insides of my eyelids. (via) It has everything you could ever want in one place. Dinosaurs! Lasers! Skinned humans shooting lasers from their mouths at dinosaurs! Men with pinks dots over their faces and men with diamonds for heads! If you could put my consciousness under a microscope it would look exactly like this. I love you, Charles Burns.
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Monday, October 18, 2010

X'ed Marks The Spot

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Oooh pretty pretty... I just got my copy
of Charles Burns' new book X'ed Out
and it is a lovely thing to behold, y'all...

ETA Vulture has a special treat for us Burns fans
- he's annotated a page of the book himself
in a slide-show gallery over there. Cool junk!
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Wednesday, April 21, 2010

I Am Link

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--- Bad-Ass Brody - Rope of Silicon has got the first official images from Predators, including that look at Mr. Brody there to the left. I want this movie. I want it now. I want it to be early August so this movie and Scott Pilgrim are here. But then I want it to be now again so Summer isn't over so fast. Is that too much to ask, really? Just the temporary folding of time to fulfill my movie desires? I mean really.

--- Sam The Man - At a press conference Sam Jackson had this to say:

"The Avengers is my own starring vehicle for [Nick Fury], pretty much."

Okay. As long as the second-in-command is Chris Evans naked torso, I'm fine with this. I think Sam could have a special way of working with Joss Whedon's words.

--- Killing Keaton - Did you know that Netflix has got Looking For Mr. Goodbar in their Watch Instantly queue? Well they do! The film's still not out on DVD but you can watch it there. Billy Loves Stu took a look at the under-seen film earlier this week and made me desperate to watch it again myself. And not just because of the Richard Gere in a jockstrap parts either! (though sure, those help)

--- A Little Dream Of You - In honor of that new Freddy movie coming out soon - which maybe you've noticed I've been quiet on lately? I've stopped looking at things, stopped spoiling myself, am ready to watch it now - Cinematical made a list of their 7 favorite movie nightmares, and it's not half bad.

--- Clogged Portraits - Oh, gross. Somebody created photographic representations of the school portraits in Charles Burns' Black Hole. And they are duly horrific. Not something to look at while eating, y'all. And these made me realize that it might be tougher to make a movie from the book than I'd realized. I wish they'd just animate the book like Burns' segment from Fear(s) of the Dark.
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Tuesday, April 13, 2010

X'ed Out

I don't read the places one would need to read in order to keep up with this sort of news so this could be old news to those of you that do keep up with this sort of news, but this is the first I've heard about it. "It" being Charles Burns follow-up to the masterpiece that was Black Hole. Via here (via my bud Sean who does indeed follow this sort of news, thankfully for me) comes a scan of a promo flyer that was being passed out at MoCCA this past weekend.


That link where these came from makes clear what Burns is making an homage to here as well - it's a cover of a Tin Tin book, click over to see. X'ed Out is out on October 19th.

Black Hole is astonishing and if you haven't read it, do. If you've seen Fear(s) of the Dark, the animated French anthology horror flick from a couple of years ago that I trumpeted kind of relentlessly - my 2nd fave horror film of 2008 - then you've seen Burns' work. His was the super-creepy section with the bug-men. I anticipate anything new from him as excitedly as I do something new from Michael Haneke or Paul Thomas Anderson.

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Thursday, January 15, 2009

The Golden Trousers Horror Films Of '08

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Tis the time to look back at the Best Spooky Flicks of 2008. Mwah-ah-ah! Wrap yourself in a velvet cape and affect your best Vincent Price voice, y'all. As with every year 2008 was hit or miss - horror's such a difficult genre to be in love with sometimes - but there were some real humdingers that made their way onto screens this year, which I will gladly make love to now for all of you to watch.

Just... there will only be six of us, myself included, in this Horror Movie Orgy. It's a Top 5, that is. I have five runners-up but I have myriad issues with 6-10 so I'm not bothering ranking them specifically, but here they be:

Runners Up: Otto, or Up With Dead People;
Cloverfield; Rogue; The Strangers; Stuck

But beyond that, it's all good. So let's get it on with...

The Golden Trousers Horror Films Of '08

#5 - Splinter - This movie came out of nowhere, disappeared just as quickly, but left its mark. I don't think I'd heard anything about it until reading it was playing at a local theater. I went, saw it, enjoyed it, and then it was gone like a weird and unsettling dream that you'd rub out of your eyes in the morning. But it does what it wants to do so simply and straight-forwardly without trying to get away with any dopey bullshit that my admiration for the flick grew more and more. It takes some people, throws them into an enclosed space, and then just heaps some a load of unspeakable nightmare stuff on top of them and see whats sticks. It's a treat. It's out on DVD on January 27th so y'all should check it out then.

#4 - Teeth - One of the best times I had at the movies this year. I already gave credit to lead actress Jess Weixler the other day, but I really hope we hear bunches from the director Mitchell Lichtenstein in the future. Another flick that does what it sets out to do simply and with great humor.

#3 - [REC] & Quarantine - I don't feel guilty about putting both these films in the same spot - as far as I'm concerned it's the rare case of the remake being just as solid as the original. If we were talking immediate scare impact here, then this would be my #1 horror movie of the year - no movie made me more afraid of walking around my dark apartment after watching it than the Spanish version, and then when I saw the remake in theaters a few months later I found myself surprised to be just as tense as I'd been watching the Spanish version even though they are for all intents and purposes, save a couple moments, exactly the same film. Also, [REC] hasn't and probably won't get any release here in the States, but (thanks Sean) you can buy a DVD of it via here, so do that if you've been dying to catch it.

#2 - Fear(s) of the Dark - Beautiful and horrifying and utterly transfixing. I was worried going in that the segments might not flow well - it's directed and animated by several different artists and then edited together so some segments overlap - but it worked wonderfully, and every bit of it has stuck with me months after seeing it.

#1 - Let the Right One In - No question. A horror masterpiece. But you'll be hearing more on this one tomorrow.
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