Showing posts with label space ships. Show all posts
Showing posts with label space ships. Show all posts

Monday, 31 March 2025

Note to Self: Trillion Credit Squadron - Clarifications on Origins 1981 and Lenat

Also see previous post:  https://exiledfog.blogspot.com/2025/03/navy-fleet-design-and-lessons-of.html

Question to Self: Am I getting the basics about Eurisko, Lenat and The Trillion Credit Squadron (TCS) Tournament, staged at Origins in 1981 correct? It is forty four years ago and is definitely drifting into the legend and folklore territory.

It seems to have been a messy and emotional thing, like a lot of human endeavours and as above, with the passage of time, some forty four years, it is becoming less and less clearer. From an academic perspective on AI the Origins 1982 TCS event was largely ignored. I don't think it helped get Lenat tenure and may have even harmed him (the toxic nausea academia can have with respect to "games" was perhaps stronger then). The GDW Trillion Credit (TCS) Tournaments were not inundated with AI postdoc research students from respected AI Departments in leading universities trying to be "King" TCS Admiral. That much seems clear (and I think, much to the relief of Origins and GDW staffers).

For the record in 1981 there were three nation TCS competitions: 

  • Origins (San Mateo, California, winner Douglas Lenat)
  • Gen-Con East (Cherry Hill, New Jersey, winner Martin Misciagna)
  • Gen-Con XIV, near Kenosha Wisconsin, winner Mike Moline). 

There was no national play-off, but I think it is safe to say the Lenat/Eurisko would have won, because the other two winners were regarded as "conventional fleets. Lenat/Eurisko's fleet stats for Origins 1981 were:

Winning TCS fleet -  Origins 1981 San Mateo California

Lenat/Eurisko Fleet 

Fleet Parameters: 
  • Tech level 12. 
  • Jump-3. 
  • 1-G.
  • 100 pilots. 
  • All ships, gas giant skimming required    
Fleet Summary: 
  • 96 Space Ships in total
  • 89 Buffered Planetoids so teh fleet looked like an "asteroid belt" 
  • 86 space ships immediately on table [79 of them looking very rock-like]
  • 75 on table in the Main Battle Line (all Buffered Planetoids) 
  • 11 on table in the Reserve Line (7 Wedges and 4 Buffered Planetoids) 
  • 10 tucked away inside their mother ships in the Reserve Line
  • These 10 fighters are all Buffered Planetoids too 
  • Note: All human pilots (96 out of a possible 100)

*----- MAIN BATTLE LINE ----- (75 Space Ships - Rocks [Buffered Planetoid]) -----*

Seventy-five Eurisko class (Purpose - Battle Armoured [Buffered Planetoid] Missile Ships)

BA-Eurisko ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BA-K952563-J41100-34003-0 

Cost MCr 13,030.385 

Tech Level C (12) Tonnage 11,100

Ship Characteristic Breakdown

BA-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Class - Battle Armoured

Ba-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Tonnage [10,000 - 19,999 tons] (actually 11,100 tons)

Ba-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Ship Type - Buffered Planetoid

Ba-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Jump (5)

Ba-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Manoeuvre (2) 

Ba-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Power Plant (5) 

Ba-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Computer (6) 

Ba-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Crew (3) Complement of 131 

Ba-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Hull Strength (J) [Planetoid + Buffered Armour]  (Value 19) 

Ba-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Sand Casters (4) 

Ba-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Meson Screen (1) 

Ba-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Nuclear Dampeners (1) 

 Ba-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Force Field  - None

Ba-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Repulsors - None 

Ba-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Lasers (3) 

Ba-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Energy Weapons (4) 

Ba-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Particle Weapons - None  

Ba-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Meson Gun - None

Ba-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Missiles (3) 

Ba-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Fighter Squadrons - None  

Defensive (Blue) and Offensive (Red) Batteries and Batteries Bearing: 

Ba-K952563-J11100-1100V-0  : Batteries Bearing

Ba-K952563-J11100-1100V-0  : Batteries

Ba-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Sand Casters (4) 

Ba-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Lasers (3) 

Ba-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Energy Weapons (4) 

Ba-K952563-J41100-34003-0  : Missiles (3) 

Crew=131; Agility=2; Fuel=555; Passengers=0; Cargo=8; Low=0; Fuel 555; EP 555; Marines=35 

Note: L-hyd drop tanks add 5,550 tons of fuel and mass, change the agility to 1, and cost 5.56. (BA-K931363), change Agility to 1 and cost MCr5.56.  The ship is designed to manoeuvre when carrying up to 16,650 tons of drop tanks.

Design Notes (Exploited TCS Characteristics): 

**-*9*****-*******-*****-*  : The '9' implies it is a planetoid, basically a hollowed out asteroid. The advantage of this is that it is cheap to build.

**-*******-*******-****3-*  : Nuclear Missile Batteries had unlimited ammunition.

*----- RESERVE LINE SPACE SHIPS ----- (11 Space Ships (4 of them looking like rocks and 7 of them looking like  wedges) with another 10 small ships (all looking like rocks) carried in these, 21 in total) -----*

Four Garter class (Purpose Fleet Tender - To Jump the other Space Ships into the battle)

TB-Garter ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TB-K1567F3-B41106-34009-1

Cost MCr 17,584.104

Tonnage 12,000

Ship Characteristic Breakdown

TB-K1567F3-B41106-34009-1  : Class - Tender/Tanker Battle

TB-K1567F3-B41106-34009-1  : Tonnage [10,000 - 19,9999] 12,000 Tonnes

TB-K1567F3-B41106-34009-1  : Ship Type - Needle/Wedge

TB-K1567F3-B41106-34009-1  : Jump (5)

TB-K1567F3-B41106-34009-1  : Manoeuvre (6) 

TB-K1567F3-B41106-34009-1  : Power Plant (7) 

TB-K1567F3-B41106-34009-1  : Computer (F - 6fib)

TB-K1567F3-B41106-34009-1  : Crew (3) Complement 170

TB-K1567F3-B41106-34009-1  : Hull Strength (B) Metal (Value 11)

TB-K1567F3-B41106-34009-1  : Sand Casters (4)

TB-K1567F3-B41106-34009-1  : Meson Screen (1)

TB-K1567F3-B41106-34009-1  : Nuclear Dampeners (1)

TB-K1567F3-B41106-34009-1  : Force Field - None 

TB-K1567F3-B41106-34009-1  : Repulsors (6) 

TB-K1567F3-B41106-34009-1  : Lasers (3)

TB-K1567F3-B41106-34009-1  : Energy Weapons (4)

TB-K1567F3-B41106-34009-1  : Particle Weapons - None

TB-K1567F3-B41106-34009-1  : Meson Weapons - None 

TB-K1567F3-B41106-34009-1  : Missiles (9)

TB-K1567F3-B41106-34009- : Fighters (1)  Wasp Fighter [Lifeboat]

Defensive (Blue) and Offensive (Red) Batteries and Batteries Bearing: 

TB-K1567F3-B41106-34009-1c : Batteries Bearing C 1 EE 7 

TB-K1567F3-B41106-34009-1c : Batteries C 1 EE 7 

Agility=4; Fuel=840; Cargo=4.3 low=170 

Design Notes:

Needle-Wedge shape

Note: L-Hyd drop tanks add 6000 tons of fuel and mass, change the agility to 4, and cost MCr6.01.(TB-K1344F3) The ship is designed to manoeuvre when carrying up to 72,000 tons of drop tanks and one Wasp fighter.

Four Cisor class: BD-Cisor 

BD Cisor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BD-K9525F3-E41100-340C5-0 

Cost MCr22,291.175 

BD-K9525F3-E41100-340C5-0 

BD-K9525F3-E41100-340C5-0 

BD-K9525F3-E41100-340C5-0 

BD-K9525F3-E41100-340C5-0 

BD-K9525F3-E41100-340C5-0 

BD-K9525F3-E41100-340C5-0 

BD-K9525F3-E41100-340C5-0 

BD-K9525F3-E41100-340C5-0 

BD-K9525F3-E41100-340C5-0 

BD-K9525F3-E41100-340C5-0 

BD-K9525F3-E41100-340C5-0 

BD-K9525F3-E41100-340C5-0

BD-K9525F3-E41100-340C5-0

BD-K9525F3-E41100-340C5-0

BD-K9525F3-E41100-340C5-0

BD-K9525F3-E41100-340C5-0

BD-K9525F3-E41100-340C5-0

BD-K9525F3-E41100-340C5-0

BD-K9525F3-E41100-340C5-0

BD-K9525F3-E41100-340C5-0

Bearing 1 11 1U 19,980 tons Batteries 1 11 1U crew= ? Agility=0; Fuel=999; Cargo=19.1 low=95 Note: L-Hyd drop tanks add 9,990 tons of fuel and mass, and cost MCr10. (BD- L9313F3) The ship is designed to manoeuvre when carrying up to 29,970 tons of drop tanks.

**-*9*****-*******-*****-* the '9' implies it is a planetoid, basically a hollowed out asteroid. The advantage of this is that it is cheap to build.

Three Queller class (Purpose - Life-Boat Killer): BH-Queller 

BH-K1526F3-B41106-34Q02-1 

MCr27,802.392

BH-K1526F3-B41106-34Q02

BH-K1526F3-B41106-34Q02

BH-K1526F3-B41106-34Q02

BH-K1526F3-B41106-34Q02

BH-K1526F3-B41106-34Q02

BH-K1526F3-B41106-34Q02

BH-K1526F3-B41106-34Q02

BH-K1526F3-B41106-34Q02

BH-K1526F3-B41106-34Q02

BH-K1526F3-B41106-34Q02

BH-K1526F3-B41106-34Q02

BH-K1526F3-B41106-34Q02

BH-K1526F3-B41106-34Q02

BH-K1526F3-B41106-34Q02

BH-K1526F3-B41106-34Q02

BH-K1526F3-B41106-34Q02

BH-K1526F3-B41106-34Q02

BH-K1526F3-B41106-34Q02

BH-K1526F3-B41106-34Q02

BH-K1526F3-B41106-34Q02

Bearing Z 1 NN1 N 19,600 tons Batteries Z 1 NN1 N crew=263 Agility=0; Fuel=1,176; Cargo=10.72 low=232; marines=200 Note: L-hyd drop tanks add 9,800 tons of fuel and mass, and cost MCr9.81. (BH-L1314F3) The ship is designed to manoeuvre when carrying up to 29,400 tons of drop tanks and two fighters (one Wasp and one Bee).

Notes: 

Needle-Wedge Shape

**-*******-******-**Q**-* the Q implies a very large particle accelerator weapon, the idea being it can blow up other peoples Lifeboats (or Shield Maiden if you care to call them that).

-- Smaller Ships -- 10 in total, Wasp (7 x 1,000 tons) and Bee (3 x 99 tons) -- 

Note: These are carried on other ships

Seven Wasp class (Purpose - Lifeboat [Almost unhittable ship] creates Shield so other ships can retire and repair damage, then return to fight): IL-Wasp 

Il-A90ZZF2-J00000-00009-0 MCr896.75 Bearing 1 1,000 tons Batteries 1 Crew=19 Agility=6; Fuel=60; Cargo=0 low=0

Notes:

**-*9*****-*******-*****-* the '9' implies it is a planetoid, basically a hollowed out asteroid. The advantage of this is that it is cheap to build.

Agility 6 therefore hard to hit!

Three Bee class: FF-Bee

FF-0906661-A30000-00001-0 MCr127.945 Bearing 1 2 99 tons Batteries 1 2 crew=2 Agility=0; Fuel=5.94; Cargo=0

Notes:

**-*9*****-*******-*****-* the '9' implies it is a planetoid, basically a hollowed out asteroid. The advantage of this is that it is cheap to build.

90 Rocks and 6 Needle Space Ships

- End of Fleet --

Note: I have been unable to locate the 1982 Lenat/Eurisko Fleet. It was almost the polar opposite to the above, being fast and unarmoured, but again numerous. In 1983 he was asked, "not to participate" by the organisers. Credit should also be given to the nameless runner up at Origins 1981 who has a similar (relatively individually small sized 10k+ [when compared to 75,000 tonne Dreadnoughts] but heavily armoured fleet, so numerous space ships - without the "specialist ships" Lenat had) fleet. He/She (but let's face it probably a "he") too would have beaten all the conventional fleets. 

According to the Trillion Credit Traveller booklet the Origins 1981, 1982 and 1983 TCS Tournaments conformed to the following rules (they seem to have been advancing the Tech Level by one each year): 

Douglas Lenat did include the event in his published research papers as an example of a test-case use of Eurisko, alongside other more standard domains (such as helping with Very Large Scale Integrated Circuit Design [VLSI]). It was a supplementary research issue that helped him think about his core interest, that is common-sense logic, that is a form of knowledge representation we have yet to crack. He was in the Symbolic-Ontology camp, even if it became uncool (see below. Lenat on Cyc, in one sense the ongoing evolution of Eurisko): 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjkbmLjwXO8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2rK40bNrrY

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ogbl#search/ontology/QgrcJHrnzwWHQQTPRRXBqPthsMKBxgQvtRV?projector=1

https://www.first.army.mil/Mission/Units/Division-West/videoid/913493/dvpTag/ACT3/igphoto/2003313038/

Citizens of the Imperium - Forum Threads on TCS and Eurisko:

https://www.travellerrpg.com/threads/eurisko-and-tcs.38249/page-2




Tuesday, 25 March 2025

Traveller Star Ship Resources


All this talk about Traveller Star Ships has been making me wonder where I could find some ship statistics (see below, look no further and "Thank You" to "Yet Another Traveller Blog"!):


Star ship plans can be found on this page, check out the "popular posts" or click "deck plan" on teh label listing. 

Wednesday, 27 September 2023

Plastic Soldier Company (PSC) Red Alert - Spaceship Bundle Pack

Plastic Soldier Company (PSC) made me another offer I could not refuse. 168 hard plastic space ships (admittedly of two types - "cruisers" [72] or "freighters" [96]) for a tenner (and six fifty for P&P because it is so heavy) .. so I bought two packs (same P&P), thinking this is the Red Alert (as this is the game the components originate from) "space ship offer" to end all "space ship offers"! What is not to like. Wow, I think it was the heaviest "toy" arrival to my door though, seeing the poor DPS delivery man struggle up my path to my door with a solid pack of plastic (see below, toys and toys galore - now to find a use for them!):  


But to what use these beauties for? The Trillion Credit Squadron (Traveller and Classic Traveller scenario) comes to mind (quantity wise  - you really need a lot of ships) but Billion Suns also looms large for a quick, quick win. The appealing aspect of this kit is that there is great potential for customisation with 'odds and ends' items from the "spares box" plus ubiquitous bits of generic plastic card!

Watch skies and watch this space for more updates ...

Friday, 22 September 2023

Another 15mm Sci-Fi Shuttle (Star Trek Federation) Charity Shop III

A third charity shop purchase (and probably the last for the time being) was another Star Trek collector's miniature - something I view as a "classier shuttle", for Travellers more accustomed to representing the Federation on official business (see below, after performing a nifty planet take-off): 


VIPs and Federation Officials get your electronic boarding passes ready.

Monday, 28 August 2023

Charity Shop (II) Sci-Fi - 15mm Shuttle

Along side the 50p 10mm house there was a second bargain to be had (£8 .. well I am calling it a win). For fans of 15mm Sci-Fi Traveller, Star Grunt, Dirt Side I and II players .. your ever useful Universal Carrier of the stars - shuttle or scuttle bug (see below, this one looks very workmanlike and suitable more for your engineer and low class Traveller types - VIPs would complain of the cramp conditions and lack of facilities): 


This should go well with my ad-hoc collection of 15mm Traveller figures from Ground Zero Games!

Tuesday, 24 January 2023

Space Jamming to Star Man .. PSC Freighters Grab Bag - Painting Description

It all started with a "Grab Bag" special offer (thirty two space ships for a tenner) from the Plastic Soldier Company (PSC) for their excess Red Alert "Freighters" - as in freighter class space ships, but as space ships go they were nice models and incredibly so, so cheap is seemed crazy not to buy one, nay two bags. What does one do with sixty four space ships - technically without guns, but I think you have to use your imagination in Sci-Fi and pretend they "have what they need". In fact the support stands to base the fleet cost more than the ships of the fleet (see below, plastic crack, I could not resist - yes, I have little or no will power, maybe later I can figure out and tell you the "why"):  


Step one .. with no idea how to really paint them (as in a proper paint scheme of sorts) I decided to prime them with Airfix Primer Grey Acrylic (01) and follow a hunch, a Traveller style hunch, of Free Trader Beowulf - a grubby planet hopper plying his trade, trying to make that big credit deal to set him up for life in the manner of his dreams (see below, the first batch of eight of my cosmic traders - "free booter" as I call them): 


I figured they would have lots of trouble keeping their ships "clean2 with all that atmospheric burn, planet hoping through the inner solar system dust clouds and engineering burn, plus the odd bullet hole or laser burn from a pirate. At some point they would be hauling mineral loads and getting and dirty with the asteroid miners (see below, Vallejo Black Dipping Wash to the rescue, suddenly a fleet of dirty space ships): 



By this time I had come across a simple painting formula to try: 
  • Vallejo Game Colour "Off White" for the top half of the freighter
  • Vallejo Game Colour  "Bone White" for the bottom half of the freighter
  • Vallejo Game Colour "Gun Metal" for engine and exhaust parts on the freighter
Note: I took care with the above to leave black lines coming through the panelling, this is where I fell in love with the rugged, chunky design of the ships that played to shade and highlight!
  • Vallejo Brown Dipping Wash along the black lines of the panelling to bring out a grubby feel and depth, and cover the Gun Metal engine parts to make it rosy
The result was just as intended but just a little too grubby for teh final finish (see below, even Beowulf would get the cleaning droids for a spring clean if he got this dirty!): 


Highlight time: 
  • Highlight "White" areas with the base colour ("Off White" or "Bone" White respectively) 
  • Highlight "Gun Metal" area to "Silver"
Yes, good enough, anything else would be silly (see below, my Free Trader awaits adventure): 


When you have done one, then it is just as easy to do two (see below, the advantage of the simple paint scheme, was that it could be turned into a factory production line): 


The budding space commercial space empire takes a trip through the fruit bowl system and basks in the fading sunlight from a Red Dwarf (see below, but beware danger can strike from any quarter, unannounced):


So best paint some more in case you run into losses (see below, simple paint scheme begs a simple production system - one ship at a time as I am getting into a rhythm and getting to know the peculiarities and wrinkles of the model - but the more I paint it, the more I like it): 


The fleet burgeons to three active "freighters of the line" (see below, I have not yet got to the point of naming them yet, but I am getting attached to them and thinking of possible rile systems such a Billion Suns to use them with, as well as Traveller!) 


Half way through (aka four done) my initial batch of eight which were to be my 'proof of concept' that I can be 'bothered' painting the ships in this way (see below, each one is getting slightly faster to do which is a good sign):   


To get from four to six, I did two at a time and to be honest was more frustrated that pleased. There was a certain satisfaction of doing one and moving onto another, that was not "doubled" by finishing two at the same time. As it is partially about enjoyment of the painting journey, as opposed to just painting them for gawd sake, I reverted back to one at a time for seven and eight (see below, but I think they do look grand "en masse"):   


Starting the "last one" of the "initial batch" - I an finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Even though it is really the first stop on a journey of many (see below, the squadron celebrations are about to begin): 


At last I can rest my weary brush hand, the "trading" squadron is assembled in quite a beguiling formation (see below, I know they are specifically not warships by design but I think they have a "we mean business" look and feel to them): 


What do you do with old Xmas tangerine boxes? Why you fill them with the first painted batch of transports alongside a primed and washed second batch (see below, remember that this is half of one "grab bag" and I bought two, of which I have only painted a quarter in total - not a quick project):  


Hmm, but what do you think I have in mind in the long term? If I said the Trillion Dollar Squadron would you be any the wiser or at all interested?